|
For those who don't understand why hardclaiming as vet is not a good move:
The vet is there to absorb a mafia NK. If he hardclaims he loses his value. Softclaiming has the double benefit of (hopefully) stopping the lynch and (probably) drawing a shot.
Anyway...Silverarte and I were not in the thread at the time. Tubesock and LS were. Shining was voting for a counterwagon, not scummy in and of itself. Shining...can you please explain your reasoning for voting WW over LS with a soft blue claim?
Celestial and Gumdrop both had useless votes, which bothers me more from Celestial than Gumdrop simply because he was actually here to do something about it. Can you explain your vote, Celestial?
|
Honestly I didn't believe his blue claim tbh because he didn't say what role he was but I do agree yes maybe soft claiming was the best option for vet but when people are voting you for a lynching? You must claim that how I feel about blue roles when being lynched.
|
On January 07 2015 10:05 LightningStrike wrote:
Honestly I didn't believe his blue claim tbh because he didn't say what role he was but I do agree yes maybe soft claiming was the best option for vet but when people are voting you for a lynching? You must claim that how I feel about blue roles when being lynched.
Sorry, dude. I know it's easy to claim post-lynch when I wasn't here at EoD...but those who have played with me before on the other site (don't think it's happened here) can attest that I always switch my vote when someone soft (or hard) claims a role.
The reason is simple: if they're really that role they probably will be NKd by mafia that night. Not 100% of the time of course, but probably, and especially this early in the game, where there is plenty of time to determine if he's lying or not...
Eh. I am inclined to believe that this didn't occur to players in a newbie game, but still...
|
On January 07 2015 09:59 rsoultin wrote:
Celestial and Gumdrop both had useless votes, which bothers me more from Celestial than Gumdrop simply because he was actually here to do something about it. Can you explain your vote, Celestial?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474146-newbie-mini-mafia-lx?page=25#484
I went over why I wasn't going with the top two earlier on before the kill. In fact I even acknowledged that my vote was likely going to be useless because jarjar was unlikely to get the votes needed but I was open to be convinced to change to a wagon. Nobody did in the end.
In short:
- Over and over again I've stated that WW was going a bad lynch. So I wasn't going to get on that wagon. I was leaning scum on him last set of reads, but when you decided to start the lynch train on him I was extremely uncomfortable hitching up to that because it was a train started over a pressure vote and not a clear analysis of him being scum.
- LS I was originally voting for and was my D1 lynch until he demonstrated that this kind of play as townie has been normal for him several times in the past. Which led me to conclude that, although I was still suspicious, he was a bad D1 lynch.
- I was never convinced of the case for a D1 Shining lynch though I explicitly stated in my last full set of reads that Shining was a possibly D2 lynch for me. I never saw enough from anyone in the last few pages to convince me otherwise to jump on the Shining train at this early point. Suspicious but not enough for me to condemn.
- jarjar was my second top read after LS. After LS convinced me he was a bad D1 lynch it was natural to switch to jarjar. I left myself open to being convinced to change that but nobody did, so I saw no point in switching votes so late from someone I've been reading scum to someone I'm less sure about purely so my votes were "with a group".
Ultimately in the end I wasn't convinced strongly enough either way on WW to try to kill him or save him. I felt it was a bad lynch but he didn't give me enough to go on to try to drive a campaign to save him, largely because he posted basically nothing. And nobody else posted anything to convince me of anyone else being a worthy target. So rather than throw my vote around randomly I felt it best to stick to my own reads, even if that meant a wasted vote.
|
Anyway. I should be going to bed in a minute. Tomorrow when I get home I think I'm going to be taking a careful look over how that train got rolling. Got a very uncomfortable feeling about it all.
|
This does line up with the posts you made, Celestial. Meh, knowing that you're new makes it harder, cause most people I would be saying BS to right now.
On January 07 2015 07:34 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 07:25 TheWarWaffle wrote:
No computer, 12% battery on IPhone. 2 hours until I am most likely lynched... Time for a desperate measure. I am town and possess a power role. I appear to have made a fool of myself through my and am unable to defend myself adequately at this time. All I can say is I'm not mafia and that there are better people to lynch. Softclaiming a power role about an hour and a half before...I think most of the rest of us playing this game are going to need a bit more than that to be honest. I'm open to be convinced to get onto one of the main bandwagons. I remain skeptical of LS and find jarjar to be very scummy but jarjar doesn't look like he'll get the votes and I'm not totally convinced that LS is a good day 1 lynch even if I do find his posts suspicious. So I'm open to being convinced to my vote to help swing things, but I'm not going to do it unless people have convincing arguments one way or another. And I don't see a convincing argument to help try to get the lynch off you.
It's clear here that you knew that WW claimed. So normally my BS meter would be going off, because you clearly stated here that you are also suspicious of LS, and a blue claim should be enough on Day 1 to convince people not to lynch WW.
You also clearly knew that WW was going to be the lynch.
I didn't personally like LS as a Day 1 lynch...although I think that of the players here he should be quicker to move his vote than anyone on that train and that does not sit well with me, considering I know that he was lynched as a blue role in his first game and was especially concerned about that the last several games, but apparently not this one...
Yet there was still shining.
Are you townreading Shining? If you're calling him a Day 2 lynch...I don't get it. Suspicious of LS and suspicious enough of Shining to consider lynching him, but you decided to park your vote instead?
|
rsoultin I wasn't comfortable enough to move my vote since my other candiates didn't really have votes on either. Mainly your brother JarJar and Gumdrop. I didn't have a good case for either player so that's why I had my vote still on TheWarWaffle other than I didn't believe his blue claim from TheWarWaffle. I really thought I was going to get lynched Day 1 but was willing to let it happen if the voters didn't believe tbh with you.
I will look at the filter of the person who gets Night Killed tomorrow and see why they would be Night Killed.
|
LS...dude...
You've been lynched before as a claimed cop who was not believed...on Day 1 no less...
WTF were you thinking? I mean, I just now got started thinking about it while looking at the votes, and this does not make sense to me. You always talk about being afraid to lynch power roles. Always. You used that as your excuse in your scum game and I almost bought it.
Why are all your reads inactives? You don't think anyone actively playing is scum?
|
On January 07 2015 10:42 rsoultin wrote:
LS...dude...
You've been lynched before as a claimed cop who was not believed...on Day 1 no less...
WTF were you thinking? I mean, I just now got started thinking about it while looking at the votes, and this does not make sense to me. You always talk about being afraid to lynch power roles. Always. You used that as your excuse in your scum game and I almost bought it.
Why are all your reads inactives? You don't think anyone actively playing is scum?
I don't really got a scum read on the actives atm and honestly I know this might sound to odd to you but I felt like I did a better job defending my claim as a Cop than TheWarWaffles but however the reason no one believed my claim in that game was because I got counter claimed by KSC simple as that. I should of attacked more on KSC in that game since he counter claimed me. Also I wasn't worry about lynching a power role this game because of my scum game on Student Mafia IV when you told me what are the chances that we would hit a power role on a lynch on Day 1 and not lynching a power role for town for 2 games in a row really made me feel like we wouldn't lynch a power role this game and it happened.
|
On January 07 2015 10:32 rsoultin wrote:
It's clear here that you knew that WW claimed. So normally my BS meter would be going off, because you clearly stated here that you are also suspicious of LS, and a blue claim should be enough on Day 1 to convince people not to lynch WW.
You also clearly knew that WW was going to be the lynch.
I didn't personally like LS as a Day 1 lynch...although I think that of the players here he should be quicker to move his vote than anyone on that train and that does not sit well with me, considering I know that he was lynched as a blue role in his first game and was especially concerned about that the last several games, but apparently not this one...
Yet there was still shining.
Are you townreading Shining? If you're calling him a Day 2 lynch...I don't get it. Suspicious of LS and suspicious enough of Shining to consider lynching him, but you decided to park your vote instead?
I think I've already explained all of this really across my posts before the vote but alright.
WW's claim was a random, single post, drive-by claim. It was extremely unconvincing, at least I wasn't convinced. Should I just take that on faith more? In any case I wasn't particularly happy about the way it was going but by that time it was far too late to do anything other than vote WW, vote LS or vote Shining to have an impact.
I was scumreading LS until he provided evidence against it. I still am suspicious of LS but he convinced me to change my vote away earlier on the basis that it was a bad D1 decision and there was not enough evidence to justify to myself to change it back.
Shining I said quote "Could definitely be convinced for a D2 lynch here" after you started my mind thinking about him being scum, you can check my major read post from today for proof. I wasn't saying he was a lock-in for a D2 lynch, I was saying he was a possible good candidate to look at because at that point it looked like LS was taking a lot of the heat for D1.
Basically the reason why not D1 is because my impression at that time was that nobody had enough of a feeling to commit to that lynch and personally I wanted to see more evidence before I decided or started trying to convince people to get on that wagon anyway. Nothing I saw since then convinced me that Shining was scum, so I couldn't in good faith vote there. If you or anyone else had seen something more convincing from Shining then I might well have changed my vote there, but the follow-up on the accusations wasn't enough and as it was everyone got rolling on the WW train in the end.
I felt it best to be consistent to my reads rather than go with something I didn't feel was honest. Perhaps that's not the best way to play but I feel happier about making my own decision there than simply bandwagoning what was potentially one bad call over another bad call.
|
Eh, you called it the wrong name. Detective. People thought you were lying because of that (or so it seemed to me).
...Dude, don't make me go filter-diving your past games. I know you've mentioned it again in a game since the one I lynched you as scum (and said that about the odds), that you were concerned about lynching blue roles.
What's your read on shining?
|
On January 07 2015 10:53 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 10:32 rsoultin wrote:
It's clear here that you knew that WW claimed. So normally my BS meter would be going off, because you clearly stated here that you are also suspicious of LS, and a blue claim should be enough on Day 1 to convince people not to lynch WW.
You also clearly knew that WW was going to be the lynch.
I didn't personally like LS as a Day 1 lynch...although I think that of the players here he should be quicker to move his vote than anyone on that train and that does not sit well with me, considering I know that he was lynched as a blue role in his first game and was especially concerned about that the last several games, but apparently not this one...
Yet there was still shining.
Are you townreading Shining? If you're calling him a Day 2 lynch...I don't get it. Suspicious of LS and suspicious enough of Shining to consider lynching him, but you decided to park your vote instead? I think I've already explained all of this really across my posts before the vote but alright. WW's claim was a random, single post, drive-by claim. It was extremely unconvincing, at least I wasn't convinced. Should I just take that on faith more? In any case I wasn't particularly happy about the way it was going but by that time it was far too late to do anything other than vote WW, vote LS or vote Shining to have an impact. I was scumreading LS until he provided evidence against it. I still am suspicious of LS but he convinced me to change my vote away earlier on the basis that it was a bad D1 decision and there was not enough evidence to justify to myself to change it back. Shining I said quote "Could definitely be convinced for a D2 lynch here" after you started my mind thinking about him being scum, you can check my major read post from today for proof. I wasn't saying he was a lock-in for a D2 lynch, I was saying he was a possible good candidate to look at because at that point it looked like LS was taking a lot of the heat for D1. Basically the reason why not D1 is because my impression at that time was that nobody had enough of a feeling to commit to that lynch and personally I wanted to see more evidence before I decided or started trying to convince people to get on that wagon anyway. Nothing I saw since then convinced me that Shining was scum, so I couldn't in good faith vote there. If you or anyone else had seen something more convincing from Shining then I might well have changed my vote there, but the follow-up on the accusations wasn't enough and as it was everyone got rolling on the WW train in the end. I felt it best to be consistent to my reads rather than go with something I didn't feel was honest. Perhaps that's not the best way to play but I feel happier about making my own decision there than simply bandwagoning what was potentially one bad call over another bad call.
Absolute BS -_-
Shining had 3 votes to WW's 5, and I've already explained why WW should have been given the benefit of the doubt. I can understand not realizing it then...
But you would have made 4 on Shining. 3 had already voted him. Tube was scumreading him. I was scumreading him. There was plenty enough interest to change votes. BS. You and one on WWs wagon shifting from Shining would have been enough.
|
EBWOP:
Shifting from WW to Shining.
I'm not flat-out scumreading you cause I can see this to be a newbie mistake, but you're definitely back at null for me and if you continue with the BS I'm going to have a hard time climbing back out of that hole. I can be really bad about confirmation bias, which I readily admit.
|
On January 07 2015 10:53 rsoultin wrote:
Eh, you called it the wrong name. Detective. People thought you were lying because of that (or so it seemed to me).
...Dude, don't make me go filter-diving your past games. I know you've mentioned it again in a game since the one I lynched you as scum (and said that about the odds), that you were concerned about lynching blue roles.
What's your read on shining?
Well what else I was suppose to do when my role pm was Detective and my coach in that game clarified it was Cop at the time but I couldn't really say it was my coach who told me it was Cop and in the thread I did ask for BH the host of the game to clarified to me if Detective was Cop in the thread and told them what BH told me but they simply didn't believe me because of the counter claim by KSC that's all.
Also my read on Shining is Null leaning scum as I didn't like his case on ExO and some people already told him that ExO wasn't going to get lynched Day 1 but he did switch TheWarWaffle too after that. Also his post about ExO was kind of odd that he did sheep a read on him yet scum read him and seemed like he was talking nonsense on it.
|
On January 07 2015 11:05 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 10:53 rsoultin wrote:
Eh, you called it the wrong name. Detective. People thought you were lying because of that (or so it seemed to me).
...Dude, don't make me go filter-diving your past games. I know you've mentioned it again in a game since the one I lynched you as scum (and said that about the odds), that you were concerned about lynching blue roles.
What's your read on shining? Well what else I was suppose to do when my role pm was Detective and my coach in that game clarified it was Cop at the time but I couldn't really say it was my coach who told me it was Cop and in the thread I did ask for BH the host of the game to clarified to me if Detective was Cop in the thread and told them what BH told me but they simply didn't believe me because of the counter claim by KSC that's all. Also my read on Shining is Null leaning scum as I didn't like his case on ExO and some people already told him that ExO wasn't going to get lynched Day 1 but he did switch TheWarWaffle too after that. Also his post about ExO was kind of odd that he did sheep a read on him yet scum read him and seemed like he was talking nonsense on it.
...dude. Seriously?
You have a blue claim and the other train is someone you think is scummy?
I just...I can't tell if you're friggin protecting a scum mate or just not thinking at all. I will say this, though. If Shining flips scum and you're still alive, you better be oozing town from every pore cause I'll be gunning for you, LS. You are not as new as some of these others, and I have a much harder time believing you don't understand the basic mechanics of a blue claim than with someone like Celestial.
|
On January 07 2015 11:11 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 11:05 LightningStrike wrote:On January 07 2015 10:53 rsoultin wrote:
Eh, you called it the wrong name. Detective. People thought you were lying because of that (or so it seemed to me).
...Dude, don't make me go filter-diving your past games. I know you've mentioned it again in a game since the one I lynched you as scum (and said that about the odds), that you were concerned about lynching blue roles.
What's your read on shining? Well what else I was suppose to do when my role pm was Detective and my coach in that game clarified it was Cop at the time but I couldn't really say it was my coach who told me it was Cop and in the thread I did ask for BH the host of the game to clarified to me if Detective was Cop in the thread and told them what BH told me but they simply didn't believe me because of the counter claim by KSC that's all. Also my read on Shining is Null leaning scum as I didn't like his case on ExO and some people already told him that ExO wasn't going to get lynched Day 1 but he did switch TheWarWaffle too after that. Also his post about ExO was kind of odd that he did sheep a read on him yet scum read him and seemed like he was talking nonsense on it. ...dude. Seriously? You have a blue claim and the other train is someone you think is scummy? I just...I can't tell if you're friggin protecting a scum mate or just not thinking at all. I will say this, though. If Shining flips scum and you're still alive, you better be oozing town from every pore cause I'll be gunning for you, LS. You are not as new as some of these others, and I have a much harder time believing you don't understand the basic mechanics of a blue claim than with someone like Celestial.
I thought that Shining didn't have a lot votes at the time and I tunneled to hard on TWW I'm sorry  I will do better on Day 2 and Day 3 if I'm alive at that part of the I promise!
|
On January 07 2015 11:16 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 11:11 rsoultin wrote:On January 07 2015 11:05 LightningStrike wrote:On January 07 2015 10:53 rsoultin wrote:
Eh, you called it the wrong name. Detective. People thought you were lying because of that (or so it seemed to me).
...Dude, don't make me go filter-diving your past games. I know you've mentioned it again in a game since the one I lynched you as scum (and said that about the odds), that you were concerned about lynching blue roles.
What's your read on shining? Well what else I was suppose to do when my role pm was Detective and my coach in that game clarified it was Cop at the time but I couldn't really say it was my coach who told me it was Cop and in the thread I did ask for BH the host of the game to clarified to me if Detective was Cop in the thread and told them what BH told me but they simply didn't believe me because of the counter claim by KSC that's all. Also my read on Shining is Null leaning scum as I didn't like his case on ExO and some people already told him that ExO wasn't going to get lynched Day 1 but he did switch TheWarWaffle too after that. Also his post about ExO was kind of odd that he did sheep a read on him yet scum read him and seemed like he was talking nonsense on it. ...dude. Seriously? You have a blue claim and the other train is someone you think is scummy? I just...I can't tell if you're friggin protecting a scum mate or just not thinking at all. I will say this, though. If Shining flips scum and you're still alive, you better be oozing town from every pore cause I'll be gunning for you, LS. You are not as new as some of these others, and I have a much harder time believing you don't understand the basic mechanics of a blue claim than with someone like Celestial. I thought that Shining didn't have a lot votes at the time and I tunneled to hard on TWW I'm sorry I will do better on Day 2 and Day 3 if I'm alive at that part of the I promise!
Tchhhh. Don't know if I believe this. But whatevs. Nothing I can do about it right now, anyway. I've already established that I think an attempt should at least have been made to lynch someone other than the guy who softed blue.
|
He should have been given the benefit of the doubt on a three line post saying he's blue? Off the back of a bunch of suspicious posts? I'm really not sure what I can say here to be honest except that's just not how I felt when I saw it.
Yes, I threw my vote away. I own up to that and I'm sorry to WW for my part, small as it was, in the mislynch. I can't say I'm particularly happy about it but there it is and I'm really not sure what the you want from me here. I've already explained my reasoning, such as it is. I don't have much more I can really say.
And with all due respect you're the person who started the train on WW in the first place. So if we're asking questions here about voting motivations then please explain these posts of yours:
i want to lynch shining. i will settle for ww.
my initial vote on WW was pure pressure
You actively stated you preferred the Shining lynch over the WW one and your vote on WW was initially just pure pressure. But still remained on WW saying that you wouldn't be around at EoD to change it. Why? Why not go for the Shining vote that you were so convinced of? There were people who actually voted for WW around between his claim and the EoD that didn't change their votes. What of them?
In essence why are you trying to throw blame around so much on a lynch you actively participated in, despite claiming that someone else was more desirable as a lynch for you? I can't say I'm proud of myself for letting a blue get killed, but you deliberately voted for the poor guy, despite explicitly saying someone else was a better target.
|
Right. I'm going to bed now. Its like half past two in the morning and I have to go to a seminar tomorrow. I'll read answers if you got them in the morning.
|
On January 07 2015 11:37 -Celestial- wrote:He should have been given the benefit of the doubt on a three line post saying he's blue? Off the back of a bunch of suspicious posts? I'm really not sure what I can say here to be honest except that's just not how I felt when I saw it. Yes, I threw my vote away. I own up to that and I'm sorry to WW for my part, small as it was, in the mislynch. I can't say I'm particularly happy about it but there it is and I'm really not sure what the you want from me here. I've already explained my reasoning, such as it is. I don't have much more I can really say. And with all due respect you're the person who started the train on WW in the first place. So if we're asking questions here about voting motivations then please explain these posts of yours: You actively stated you preferred the Shining lynch over the WW one and your vote on WW was initially just pure pressure. But still remained on WW saying that you wouldn't be around at EoD to change it. Why? Why not go for the Shining vote that you were so convinced of? There were people who actually voted for WW around between his claim and the EoD that didn't change their votes. What of them? In essence why are you trying to throw blame around so much on a lynch you actively participated in, despite claiming that someone else was more desirable as a lynch for you? I can't say I'm proud of myself for letting a blue get killed, but you deliberately voted for the poor guy, despite explicitly saying someone else was a better target.
You're right. I did. At the time LS and WW were the only lynch wagons, with just HTS voting Shining, and I have only now become suspicious of LS. I did make an effort to convince people on Shining from my mobile during my lunch break, but Trfel and JarJar didn't vote until afterwards. Trfel himself was initially very reluctant to vote Shining and was the main one I was trying to convince, because I knew he had the best chance of pushing the lynch if I couldn't.
It probably would have been better if I had just switched my vote. The reads on demand right before the lynch didn't impress me that much, but had I gotten any support, I definitely would have switched. You clearly made the effort to look through my filter. Can you honestly say that it reads any differently?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
