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I'm posting my thoughts as I go.
I said yesterday that I dislike Koshi. After looking at his filter, I still think he looks bad. He didn't post much since yesterday evening so most of this is simply rehashing.
1. (Palmar was already touching on this but I think its a strong point which is worth repeating)
Koshi was very very eager to defend Chyz in the early game. I'm not making any preflip associations here, but just by looking at his filter you can see how much time he spends on defending Chyz. This makes it looks like he is making alot of contributions (which in a sense he is) but he is in no way doing alot of scum hunting. Why is it that Koshi felt the ned to defend Chyz so hard in the first half of D1?
2. Not pushing geript despite voting him.
3. Afraid to actually call people scum. Instead saying things like "Your excuses come over scummy". Why not say YOU look scummy? Trying to set up a vote if possible, yet not pushing the lynch or having me against him as much as he could have.
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I'm super cool with killing geript actually.
He have a wierd early game, he point about him "waiting for vets" still stands. However, it also becomes more and more clear that geript is not really trying to scum hunt. He has alot of posts calling people town, alot of post defending people, even more posts defending himself. He has almost no post about who he wants to kill.
Town tries to scum hunt, scum tries to avoid getting killed. geript is very clearly not scum hunting and very clearly trying not to get killed.
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On January 02 2015 01:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I don't want to lynch Koshi because his attack on Geript when questioned was instantaneous, to the point yet elaborate. Show nested quote +On December 31 2014 23:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Maybe you're right. I just always have a strong averse reaction to people saying "go do something useful" whilst not doing something useful. It rustles my jimmies, so to say.
What specifically bothers you by Geript enough to vote for him? Show nested quote +On December 31 2014 23:17 Koshi wrote:
Two things Dr.H. said. First thing was about geripts buddying to Dr.H.
The second thing was that geript just came by this morning to say "Koshi you are pretty awesome" after I made that post on Eden.
And I guess I am missing some geripts starpower in this game. Kelsier his case was pretty good as well. He hadn't really elaborated yet why he suspected Geript, but when questioned he instantly had a story without having to think about it.
Fair enough point. I don't think this makes him auto town but I feel less inclined to vote him today.
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On January 02 2015 01:32 Damdred wrote:
@Lazer, how do you get from disliking Koshi pretty hardcore and seemily on the verge of scum reading him and then with just two posts from artanis you say that you don't want to vote him as much today? Then right before you say you don't want to lynch geript?
Aren't you being guilty of what you charged koshi with not pushing your scum read, feels like you are afraid of calling koshi scum and sticking to it. and you feel way to agreeable
Because I think what Artanis posted was relevant maybe?
Not sure why you think I don't want to lynch geript? I just said I'm super cool with killing him!
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On January 02 2015 01:38 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2015 01:36 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 01:32 Damdred wrote:
@Lazer, how do you get from disliking Koshi pretty hardcore and seemily on the verge of scum reading him and then with just two posts from artanis you say that you don't want to vote him as much today? Then right before you say you don't want to lynch geript?
Aren't you being guilty of what you charged koshi with not pushing your scum read, feels like you are afraid of calling koshi scum and sticking to it. and you feel way to agreeable Because I think what Artanis posted was relevant maybe? Not sure why you think I don't want to lynch geript? I just said I'm super cool with killing him! Explain why what art posted was able to change your mind so much?
lol.
I'm done talking with you. Its obvious that I agree with what he said, the fact that you are not grasping this is beyond me. I thought it was a good point and thats why I changed my opinion on him. If you agree or not with Artanis thats another story. But why hold the fact that I changed my opinion against me? Would you like it better if I tunneled the shit out of Koshi no matter what?
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I'm don't really want to lynch Robik. His play this far has not helped town one bit. But his play is not productive for scum either as he puts himself under heavy pressure. So in the end, I have him as null. With that being said, he really needs to up his play D2.
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As for rikoty, I think he is mildly suspicious but not lynch worthy. He didn't really do anything but tunnel DH yesterday for a pretty retarded reason. By doing this, he essentially avoided talking about most other things. Making a massive list of all his reads is not bad, but with no follow up this isn't really helping us in any way.
I think he could be a potential candidate for lynch D2 though.
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Lynching Marv is a terrible idea btw.
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On January 02 2015 02:15 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2015 02:07 Lazermonkey wrote:
Lynching Marv is a terrible idea btw. Elaborate.
Basically what Artanis said.
marv will be posting more on D2 no matter what alignment he is. We will be able to judge him better at that point. If he sucks then, sure I can kill him. To kill the strongest player because he is inactive D1, when there are legitimate reasons to be inactive, is hardly worth it.
Besides, even if your really think he is a good target, do you really believe he is the BEST target?
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On January 02 2015 02:22 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2015 02:21 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:15 justanothertownie wrote:On January 02 2015 02:07 Lazermonkey wrote:
Lynching Marv is a terrible idea btw. Elaborate. Basically what Artanis said. marv will be posting more on D2 no matter what alignment he is. We will be able to judge him better at that point. If he sucks then, sure I can kill him. To kill the strongest player because he is inactive D1, when there are legitimate reasons to be inactive, is hardly worth it. Besides, even if your really think he is a good target, do you really believe he is the BEST target? If marv is scum he will probably be happy to even survive day1.
On January 02 2015 02:23 justanothertownie wrote:
You didn't even give a read on marv.
I'm not super impressed by marvs play this fair but TBH I don't have a strong read on him nor do I prioritize getting a better read on him atm. My point still stands though, I'm not willing to kill the strongest player because he is playing bad/is inactive D1.
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I'm having doubts about Chyz as well. I do think his play is bad and I don't agree with almost anything he has said this fair. But I'm not sure that makes him scum. He could just as well be bad town. I don't disagree with your case DH in the sense that I think all of Chyz plays are wierd and/or bad but can you explain his actions from a scum PoV? If something doesn't make sense from a town PoV but also doesn't make sense as scum, I don't think its a good reason to lynch someone for.
Granted, I would not be super sad if Chyz got lynched today. I do think he is a better lynch than say Robik. But I think geript is a much better lynch for today.
##Unvote
##Vote: geript
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On January 02 2015 02:38 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2015 02:32 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:22 justanothertownie wrote:On January 02 2015 02:21 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:15 justanothertownie wrote:On January 02 2015 02:07 Lazermonkey wrote:
Lynching Marv is a terrible idea btw. Elaborate. Basically what Artanis said. marv will be posting more on D2 no matter what alignment he is. We will be able to judge him better at that point. If he sucks then, sure I can kill him. To kill the strongest player because he is inactive D1, when there are legitimate reasons to be inactive, is hardly worth it. Besides, even if your really think he is a good target, do you really believe he is the BEST target? If marv is scum he will probably be happy to even survive day1. On January 02 2015 02:23 justanothertownie wrote:
You didn't even give a read on marv. I'm not super impressed by marvs play this fair but TBH I don't have a strong read on him nor do I prioritize getting a better read on him atm. My point still stands though, I'm not willing to kill the strongest player because he is playing bad/is inactive D1. I once thought so too but this logic is actually retarded. If he is the strongest player he may aswell show us that he is town.
So you would rather kill someone for not playing the game the way you want it to be played than to actually kill the most likely scum? Besides, if you really think marv is playing that bad does it make him more scum? It doesn't make sense for scum marv to suck so I feel this is a flawed argument.
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On January 02 2015 02:57 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2015 02:51 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:38 justanothertownie wrote:On January 02 2015 02:32 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:22 justanothertownie wrote:On January 02 2015 02:21 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:15 justanothertownie wrote:On January 02 2015 02:07 Lazermonkey wrote:
Lynching Marv is a terrible idea btw. Elaborate. Basically what Artanis said. marv will be posting more on D2 no matter what alignment he is. We will be able to judge him better at that point. If he sucks then, sure I can kill him. To kill the strongest player because he is inactive D1, when there are legitimate reasons to be inactive, is hardly worth it. Besides, even if your really think he is a good target, do you really believe he is the BEST target? If marv is scum he will probably be happy to even survive day1. On January 02 2015 02:23 justanothertownie wrote:
You didn't even give a read on marv. I'm not super impressed by marvs play this fair but TBH I don't have a strong read on him nor do I prioritize getting a better read on him atm. My point still stands though, I'm not willing to kill the strongest player because he is playing bad/is inactive D1. I once thought so too but this logic is actually retarded. If he is the strongest player he may aswell show us that he is town. So you would rather kill someone for not playing the game the way you want it to be played than to actually kill the most likely scum? Besides, if you really think marv is playing that bad does it make him more scum? It doesn't make sense for scum marv to suck so I feel this is a flawed argument. Marvs towngame is to play well and very active. Marvs scumgame is to not do jackshit. What do you think he is doing this game?
o.O really? I've never played with scum marv. I guess that makes your argument more valid.
Still, do you think he is the BEST lynch for today?
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On January 02 2015 02:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2015 03:52 TheChyz wrote:
I'm having some trouble with koshi after thinking it some. Basically once koshi started defending me, thats mostly all that koshi has contributed to the thread. Just talks about me being town and dr.H being wrong in his read. Like the first time seeing it it felt fine but the longer this game goes, that is all that koshi has been really on. Nothing much else apart from saying "this person is fine, these people are on my scum list, etc". I haven't really felt like I have gotten anything from koshi.
And his read on me just seems to good to not have a decent enough read on somebody else. Again I don't get why a scum would poke their head out this early to defend a lynch that doesn't have traction yet but the longer he does it the more it seems like koshi just knows im town but hasn't added too much to the thread other than that. Just seems suspicious to me.
Look how softly he goes after anyone he is suspicious of. Always wanna seek town approval first. Doesn't mind voting or acting with confidence when he's playing defensive though. Never really follows up on anything he says and is accusing people of things they either aren't really doing or that he is even more guilty of. Considering this behavior and presentation is all significantly different in tone from his previous game as town I don't need a whole lot more. If you read his filter closely he makes geript look much worse too.
As for meta, I don't care too much about someone that plays is differently from his last town game. People change their play style, especially when they are new. If he would have had one distinct playstyle for town and another for scum, I think it would be another thing, but as it stands I don't think its too relevant.
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On January 02 2015 03:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
You're wrong. There's no way he changed that much for the worse. The simpler explanation is better. Also this weird thing where geript and chyz talk about each other a lot in their own posts but never reply to each other directly is my #1 scumteam flag
Meh, not really convinced. You also have to take in account that he was in a different situation (I'm guessing since I don't bother to check). This game he has been under super heavy pressure since his first post. Its not that strange for him to handle that situation in another way than he would usually do.
I think geript still is the superior lynch.
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On January 02 2015 03:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2015 03:07 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 02 2015 02:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 01 2015 03:52 TheChyz wrote:
I'm having some trouble with koshi after thinking it some. Basically once koshi started defending me, thats mostly all that koshi has contributed to the thread. Just talks about me being town and dr.H being wrong in his read. Like the first time seeing it it felt fine but the longer this game goes, that is all that koshi has been really on. Nothing much else apart from saying "this person is fine, these people are on my scum list, etc". I haven't really felt like I have gotten anything from koshi.
And his read on me just seems to good to not have a decent enough read on somebody else. Again I don't get why a scum would poke their head out this early to defend a lynch that doesn't have traction yet but the longer he does it the more it seems like koshi just knows im town but hasn't added too much to the thread other than that. Just seems suspicious to me.
Look how softly he goes after anyone he is suspicious of. Always wanna seek town approval first. Doesn't mind voting or acting with confidence when he's playing defensive though. Never really follows up on anything he says and is accusing people of things they either aren't really doing or that he is even more guilty of. Considering this behavior and presentation is all significantly different in tone from his previous game as town I don't need a whole lot more. If you read his filter closely he makes geript look much worse too. As for meta, I don't care too much about someone that plays is differently from his last town game. People change their play style, especially when they are new. If he would have had one distinct playstyle for town and another for scum, I think it would be another thing, but as it stands I don't think its too relevant. Anything else? What about his soft reads? What about his seeking of town approval? What about his criticizing of everyone else for not having enough reads or not doing any scum hunting when he doesn't push his own reads or have confidence in them. Twice he has accused people suspicious of him (who backed it up with votes and several posts of pressure and explanation) of having softreads and being wishy washy/parroting/whatever. It all comes together as just total scummy bullshit, this is getting really really frustrating for me.
Like I said earlier, I don't disagree with his actions being bad. The reason I'm not as confident in my read on him is because I'm not as sure that his actions make him scum.
Why do you think he cannnot be bad town?
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On January 02 2015 03:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:and tells everyone else how to play, that they're not putting in enough effort scumhunting from day 1 with a "hey guys im so pro town  " cred fishing post. this is classic newb mafia play. this is not what happens after a player has a good and confident town game, even if they are mislynched. this is wrong. I will get behind a geript vote if I have to though. Notice how they use each other in their posts but never actually engage with each other
I got to go now, will be back in some hours. Will take a serious look at that other game Chyz played and see if I can draw any conlusions out of that.
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I'm not finished reading but I think that geript (and maybe someone else? I forgot...) thinks I am maffia because they looked at my past games. What exactly is it that stands out to you?
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Not finished yet...
On January 02 2015 06:35 batsnacks wrote:
Hey I'm phone posting
But I want to do town a favor and take the plunge first. I'll be happy to vote either lazor or robik today. I want to vote lazor because his dialogue with Damdred that I quoted was extremely defensive over such a small question. And that post where he voted geript. He spent a huge paragraph explaining why he's not voting chyz just to be super justified and then sheeped. Looked really scummy to me.
##vote: lazormonkey
I don't get why you guys think my response to Damdred was scummy. I litteraly said that Artanis had a "fair enough point" i.e. I thought what he was saying made sense. I mean... its really fucking simple and I feel like not even a five-year-old would have problem understanding the logic in
- I suspect Koshi a lot
- Artanis says x which is why he doesn't want to vote Koshi
- I say Artanis has a point
- I now suspect Koshi less.
How the fuck does this make me scum???
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EPT
