TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells
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Vivax
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Vivax
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Vivax
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I don't see it as scummy, just as something useless to talk about which isn't scummy at this stage of the game. The biggest accusation you could make is that he's so serious in a setting where people are kinda joking, but that's not enough to go with in my book. It's more like he's annoyed that people are discussing policies when in past games it always led to that statement of his making the most sense. Null for me. | ||
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On December 09 2014 08:47 Holyflare wrote: Well no. You said people talking about lynching lurkers are "off" and he was an "easy target to look scummy" which is already a contradiction in one post and now you are saying you know what he said and it doesn't look bad and people are making mountains out of mole hills which is a contradiction with your first post. There's a great deal of backtracking in what you are saying and I don't like it. She said people talking about that can look off and that makes them an easy target to look scummy. She explicitly said that she didn't find that post scummy. I don't find it that hard to see where she's coming from, it's more like you're tryharding to make things look scummy that are at best null. | ||
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On December 09 2014 08:50 Damdred wrote: I don't like this post at all. Like i might like it less than frogs post Why? It's my opinion that stands against yours, with all reasons given for it. Please give your reason for finding this scummy. 3/60 | ||
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On December 09 2014 08:57 Damdred wrote: I'm glad that you came back Viv, you were strangely quiet after making a very wordy post that ended up in a null. Basically my problem with this post is that you give him a scenario which isn't really true at all. Nobody had discussed policy lynching (besides the lolrng) and nobody had even brought up lurkers until his post. The whole post feels kind of off to me. Well he got to the lurker topic through the rng topic, saying it would produce content which is good against lurkers. It is a very generic post that does however fit into the context of town starting discussion and posting unseriously, so I don't want to judge it as scummy, if I were asked about lurker lynching I would reach the same conclusion. Your point that he starts talking about it spontaneously without lurker lynches being discussed still fits into the context in my opinion: One quick post before going to bed with some opinion on policy lynching, at the start of the game. So no, I won't scumread him for it. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Things I find more interesting: 27nb putting froggy into the iffy pile after saying she didn't find his post alignment indicative. This happens after suspicion piles onto her. Deffo scummy cause seems like a way of aligning her reads with the guys suspecting her in some attempt to look less scummy cause of her deviant opinion. Ummm no, In every game I have played, people always first attack the guy who talks about policy lynching and lurkers, whether doing it is bad or good. The same thing is happening this game. I don't think it is alignment indicative for froggy. I would need him to talk more to get a read. I'm just saying that there's no sense in attacking someone for something that seems "scummy" when it isn't. It seems off to everyone else, which is why people are targeting him, you get what I'm saying? Iffy: Froggy Kita (I expected more than just hey) Fecal Number 2: On December 09 2014 08:21 ritoky wrote: this is a remarkable example of doublespeak. you manage to actually say nothing in an entire paragraph. have you considered a career in politics? Ritoky attacks the post in discussion in a...passive way but doesn't actually try to draw conclusions from it in later posts, or take part in the discussion revolving around that post, this suggests he doesn't try to get alignment indicative information from the game. | ||
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27ninjabunnies is posting horrendous. Please shape up. I can’t even blame people having her as only scumread because her posting is so scummy. Is playing scum 101. People who have experience playing the game would only play this scummy as town not paying attention to their own scumminess. I would still lynch her as a policy lynch. Not acceptable play. This is the sort of thing mafia writes. If something looks like scum, smells like scum, it's not most likely town cause it has game experience. There's no read progression in what happened there. And you don't touch upon the arguments used against her and interpret them on your own. Very lazy way of deciding about someone's alignment. Let me recap 27nb: I'm not brushing it off, I' trying to look at it objectively. I think what he said makes sense. A. I know what he said. I said he was talking about policy lynching and lurkers. I never specifically said what he thought about it. I don't think it's scummy. I think people are making something scummy out of nothing. Ummm no, In every game I have played, people always first attack the guy who talks about policy lynching and lurkers, whether doing it is bad or good. The same thing is happening this game. I don't think it is alignment indicative for froggy. I would need him to talk more to get a read. I'm just saying that there's no sense in attacking someone for something that seems "scummy" when it isn't. It seems off to everyone else, which is why people are targeting him, you get what I'm saying? Templar Town Damdred Town Slam semitownie Those I need to look more at: HF Vivax Kelsier Iffy: Froggy [She just said she didn't have anything alignment indicative on him, wtf is iffy about him? Nothing. It's the fact that HF and Templar are bombarding her about it. This read is purely strategic, heat built up cause of her disagreeing, and she tries to get it off by agreeing.]. Kita (I expected more than just hey) Fecal When I compare her reactions to mine: - She adapts the read based on pressure, if she found froggy iffy for something else then she didn't mention that thing in all that time, and it can't be the argument she found not alignment-indicative. Instead she claims to have found him iffy but felt like defending him which is also a scum point. - I don't change my opinion about froggy when pressured, simply cause it was really my opinion and I saw no arguments being strong enough against it. He was null from the start for that post and I wasn't going to judge him for it. On the other hand I didn't scumread bunnies until she wrote that small list where froggy ended up being iffy for no reason at all except for her trying to align her read with the attackers. Anyway I'm voting her for today. | ||
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On December 10 2014 00:10 Tubesock wrote: Holy Moses. I didn't think I was such a slow reader but it's been hours and I feel I will never catch up to the thread while taking notes also. I'm trying to get reads, but they are conflicting with people who I feel are pretty freaking smart sounding. Namely, Koshi and Xata. Koshi, since you are here can you tell me more about your HTS read? I feel I'm fairly null/town on her. Namely, I believe that Froggy's plynch statement isn't meaningful. Bunny latches and basically posts it's probably bad but she thinks it's ok. Then scum lists Froggy. Then several people jump on her and later Dam asks HTS about the Froggy/plynch read. HTS replies that it's null on his part but Bunnies scum listing is scummy. HTS doesn't seem to scumlist Froggy. Then a bunch more people argue (kelsierSC, Bats, Viv others). I'd like to know why I should elevate the signifigance of HTS's reads and downplay Bunny's? Also I think people should read this more closely from the OP: It appears that given bad enough RNG we could have 6 Marlows, or 6 Mass Murderers, or 0. Which makes me wonder why we had a Scrooge claim?? It makes me wonder if any claims will matter as we can have multiples...so why not counterclaim? This post looks very mafiaish at this stage of the game. Tube summarizes some stuff about the argument revolving bunnies and then HTS (which I still have to read atm), and asks another player "stuff" about it as if he couldn't judge it on his own, apparently cause it conflicts with his own reads (what are his reads???). Guessing from the post it would be that he's scumreading 27nb but not HTS, cause he's asking Koshi if he should give more priority to HTS instead of 27nb. This is the sort of post I expect from a mafia who simply divides the game into different "wagon camps" consisting of different players and then works off that instead of genuinely working off arguments and reads. When he has the information, he doesn't know what to do with it in order to start looking townie. So his best bet is to start a discussion about it with some player he deems influential, and then post some random setup related stuff. | ||
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On December 10 2014 02:12 kitaman27 wrote: No, that won't be necessary. My first read through I had LightningStrike as a townie who might be an easy target for mafia to jump on. Content wasn't great, but seemed to mean well. Need to take a look at the people giving him a hard time to see if their posts are justified or taking advantage of the situation. kush is actively trolling. Leaning scum based on the fact that he isn't even attempting to read, but wouldn't mind lynching him regardless of what he may flip. Does this part seem mafiaish to you? "but they are conflicting with people who I feel are pretty freaking smart sounding. Namely, Koshi and Xata." What makes it seem like he is trying to sheep town leaders as mafia, rather than trying to identify townies and listen to what they have to say? I kinda found myself thinking that Xata was making a fair amount of sense would be someone to listen to. Not so sure about koshi as he has the content but not sure about motives yet, but does that and the role count talk really seem scummy to you? I had the opposite reaction after reading the post. rsoultin seems to decide Obi would be a good vote and then goes back to find reasons why afterwords. Maybe he hadn't had a time to express himself in the thread yet, but that's the impression that I got. fecal and bat I need to spend some time looking at. Already explained why I found it scummy. And I don't know what makes you think he's trying to sheep town "leaders", you don't know if Koshi and Xata are town yet, or are not supposed to. Plus, what he's doing is not sheeping, it's trying to figure out why his 27nb scumread doesn't align with Xata and Koshi. Anyway, that's not my main point. My main point is his strange focus on "who is scumreading whom" rather than "why is this person supposed to be scum". In his entrance post he implicitly says he's scumreading bunnies but not HTS, he doesn't talk about why he scumreads bunnies or why bunnies is a good lynch. He asks two people that seem to be doing the talk seemingly randomly about their reasons for not scumreading bunnies over HTW. He doesn't do that cause he suspects these two people, but cause he thinks they're looking good, as he himself states I'm trying to get reads, but they are conflicting with people who I feel are pretty freaking smart sounding. Yet this opinion of his isn't substantiated by what these people wrote. In fact we don't know why he gives them such high value when their opinion conflict with his. Why didn't he list HF there, or me? If bunnies is his main scumread like mine and HF's, why does he value the conflicting opinions more. So I think he just picked out two guys he thought to be influential and started talking to them about stuff to look like he's contributing, and added the setup talk on top, to contribute some more. Adding the introduction "Oh wow I'm reading so much". As said, for a scum with the game solved they will rather focus on the different wagons and the people on it and their reasons rather than real reasons for people being read one way or another, they will try to position themselves "politically" and this is what it looks like to me. | ||
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On December 10 2014 05:29 Damdred wrote: As for ritoky (which I assume is what HF asked me about) There are a few weird things in his filter that bug me. He makes mention of several scummy things in his filter but never really pushes any of it or tries to push the thread when hes in it. The sole exception to this is his yelling at LS for using one of the ways hes learned to read people early. And scum reading him for it, this does not make sense of ritoky and feels like he just found an easy target to rest on instead of pushing on other higher profile people. Its a difficult read but I just don't quite see ritoky as town in his filter. Yup, called out the same thing in relation to what he said about froggynoddys post. | ||
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On December 10 2014 08:31 27ninjabunnies wrote: Vivax- after reading through his filter seems really town to me. Actually probably one of my top towns at the moment. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=40#791 This post explain why. I think I've explained why I put Froggy as iffy, vivax, at that time. What do you think? Also, In that post you mention you don't like Koshi, or more so he's freaking you out. Can you go a little bit more into Koshi, and what kind of read you've made on him since that post? To be honest I've been fairly lazy so far. I've focused on single things that popped out at me like tube's post and the situation with you at the start of the game. I'll be making some coffee now and work on reading the whole game for real. I'm guessing there's 5 scum and 1 SK so I hope I can deliver all guesses until the end of the day. I found that part from Koshi scummy cause as I said in the post it's a thing mafia likes to write especially about teammates. They don't want to not scumread them but also not push them so they agree with the pushers but put in some sort of caveat that allows them to do something else. And I'm generally an enemy of too scummy to be scum arguments, you either find something scummy or you don't. What you can call such things are posts that can be viewed as falsely scummy, but too scummy to be scum implies you find it scummy. Brb with coffee and motivation. | ||
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He says it's interesting information but doesn't apply it to his reasoning anywhere, it's supposed to concern 27nb and Damdred since they gave Alakaslam a read. What he's doing about fecalfeast I don't know. Overall a guy I find difficult (read:tedious) to read and all over the place, spamming townreads on a whim in the later stages of his filter. Could lynch him cause he smells of bullcrap occasionally, like the fecalfeast read with a completely different focus afterwards and the fact he calls the Alakaslam townreads informative without explaining how. | ||
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On December 10 2014 10:55 rsoultin wrote: I think I phrased it as "new and learning" but I agree. Nitpicking him is pointless at this stage. So is nitpicking tube. Let the guy get his sea legs a little first before you start scumreading him like he actually knows how to play scum @Vivax. Speaking of Vivo la Vida Loca...you're definitely coming across as lazy in those reads. Still. Same opinion on 27NB, by the way, or has anything changed? Lazy in overall lookout at the game maybe, as in I didn't yet analyse everyone thoroughly. And lazy by my standards, it will improve as more information becomes available. It's just tiring to wade through all the shit some people write, only to realize it's either gibberish, uninteresting or straight offtopic. I'm here to play mafia and not to read dumb posts, so I try to make mine high quality, which I feel I've been doing and not been lazy with, so I don't really see where you're coming from by saying I'm coming across as lazy when multiple people have expressed quite the opposite. I can buy 27nb's explanation of her meaning iffy as null, so I'm looking in different places. As said by me but unmentioned by you, I wrote my train of thought regarding Kelsier which I would like you to address. Calling what I did regarding tube nitpicking is quite the stretch given that I haven't been replying to his posts in such a way but rather talked to kita about him and mostly simply explained what I didn't like about his posts. Overall I find you to be weirdly hostile in your posting and depiction of my play. Is there a particular reason? | ||
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On December 09 2014 20:42 Xatalos wrote: First things first, this really disturbed me: Something like this is really dangerous to say because it might actually out the blue role in the worst case. And the fast backtrack indicates that there wasn't any real thought behind this "plan". However, it appears that it was just a reaction test: It actually seems like KSC could believe what he's saying here. The way he goes after Fecalfeast after executing his "master plan" feels genuine enough. So I'd tentatively put KSC in the town camp. I sure hope that Mafia didn't somehow find the Scrooge because of this though. This looks so fake given that I have the exactly opposite feeling to the bolded. First, it's completely pointless to discuss that plan, and saying it was a reaction test is completely pulled out of Xata's bum cause it wasn't, hence, it's most likely some invented reason to justify a town read on Kelsier. Kelsier said he misread something, and THEN used it to form a read on FF, which Second: he afterwards didn't push (instead he discusses a multitude of other things and here and there he asks FF a question of which I don't see the results). Just cause of this Xata belongs into my naughty list. | ||
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On December 10 2014 12:01 rsoultin wrote: Yesterday you read fine, though roundabout. More words =/= better. 27NB read/recap lolworthy. "Let me compare her to me." Though other people were comparing the two of you, unnecessary. Given your initial reason for pursuing 27NB, it's a good sign you reevaluated, however. (That was the main purpose behind my post, seeing where you stood now.) BS on tube. You've written more than him on anyone for him asking other people he think may be town why they think differently than him. Kelsier read is a bunch of repeating yourself about his issue with Alakaslam being townread and a cameo of FF. Not well-developed for such a long post. And as for how I post...it's only odd if you haven't read my other posts. You're not special, vivo. It's not the more words, it's the fact I try to play this game like a machine. Got no place for jokes, only for reads and reasons, which is what every good townie should be doing in a game with posting restriction. I think you don't understand what nitpicking means. In the context of this game, it means for example that you write a case, and I only address a little part of it and not the whole picture. But the whole picture of that post by tube is what bothered me, and I explained what I didn't like about the single parts. Overall it gave me the feeling of a scum entrance. However my opinion of tube so far changed into rather townie cause of what he wrote here: I'm pretty intimidated by a few of the players. They just seem like all they have to do is put up a big post (Templur) and bam I feel they are super towny. Which in my opinion shows a townie mindset, cause he openly reflects about how a read of his forms when he sees something, and questions it at the same time. Shows that he's really thinking about the game so I'm putting him into the townpile for now. Kelsier's read is more than that since he claims that he can gain information from townreads on Kaslam but doesn't actually provide it, or say what it is. His pursuit of Fecalfeast is too sporadic for an early scumread. Why are you downplaying this so hard. | ||
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So he's pretty much scummy for apparently inventing reasons to townread him. | ||
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Xata is DEFINITELY scum. | ||
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On December 10 2014 12:31 rsoultin wrote: @Viva Whether you believe KSC or not, Xata did not pull the "reaction test" thing out of his ass. I personally don't approve of this move and might even call it scummy, given a dumb scrooge might have fallen for it, but whatevs. Says nothing about Xata. If you want a read on someone, ask. @Damdred...seems more lazy than scummy to me, the Templar post. Unless you're telling me he isn't usually fluffy (which considering his silly Santa stories, you'd think that would have raised a red flag by now with those of you who have played with him before). He asked a few good questions in the text wall. Yea gimme a read on Xata. He did pull it out of his ass cause it wasn't a reaction test. A reaction test is something you purposefully do to fish a reaction. What Kelsier did was an attempt at taking advantage of the setup, then he realized it failed, then he looked at FF and called him scum for not looking more thoroughly at what he did there, meta-based. | ||
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December 09 2014 12:42.: Regarding 27ninjabunnies, there are two reasons that make me think she might be town: 1) She easily gathered a ton of votes and the rest of the votes have been scattered around everywhere. This makes me think that the Mafia team is supporting her lynch or at the very least content with it. If that wasn't the case, I think her wagon would have been a bit weaker or at least there would be a competing wagon. Right now it just looks like 27ninjabunnies is heading to be lynched and the Mafia team is happy / doesn't care about it. 2) If Half the Sky is Mafia, I feel it's quite unlikely that 27ninjabunnies is Mafia as well. Pre-flip association, I know, but I don't think scum Half the Sky would easily pile on a scum 27ninjabunnies wagon or that she would first start casually discussing with 27ninjabunnies and refer to her as town. So I don't really think 27ninjabunnies is a good lynch for these reasons. December 09 2014 14:02: I agree that 27ninjabunnies doesn't look good. She also does have more fluff than you. Fluff in itself isn't so bad though, in my opinion. What I was more concerned about is that your posts seem to maintain some appearance of relevance without really having much (if any), whereas 27ninjabunnies has more fluff that's clearly just useless. Generally I've noticed that Mafia tend to make posts more along the lines of your posting style. December 09 2014 19:54. I guess 27ninjabunnies isn't a bad lynch at this rate. It's hard to find anything towny about her other than the easy wagon. December 09 2014 22:02: Maybe I was wrong about HTS. She seems to be actively doing stuff for now so it could be too hasty to lynch her. 27ninjabunnies on the other hand, doesn't look any better than earlier. Mainly for the fact that she defended froggy and then put him on her scumlist anyway when pressured. And townread the people who had stances against her own. Basically just meaningless listing contradicting her other posts. It could be that the scumteam merely doesn't have that much thread presence or is bussing her. ##Unvote ##Vote 27ninjabunnies Like, this doesn't make ANY sense. The reasons for her being scum were there from the start, yet all dismissed just cause so many people found them good and cause of the associative thingy. And when 27nb comes back at December 09 2014 18:07, to explain that iffy for her means null, Xata skips over it in his next posts to progressively get closer to lynching her as his traction on HTS loses strength. It is a BIG deal whether iffy means scummy or means null in someone's opinion. Obviously you can't verify it for sure if it's just an excuse or the truth, but at least it takes some wind out of the former arguments. And at the time when the arguments against bunnies were the strongest, Xata found some very questionable reasons for townreading her. When the time comes where the arguments against bunnies should be put into question given her explanation, he ignores the new information and joins the wagon based on the old information, using it as the main argument. Also notice the use of the word "fluff". "Fluff" in this game has been literally dropping down from the sky from a multitude of players, and I don't see how Xata applies it so selectively to only these two players. I don't want to count the amount of the word "fluff", between being used as bulk of his case against HTS, to being differentiated into useless fluff and fluff with usefuleness (or something like that), to be called "not so bad in itself". The use of the word fluff in here is mostly just an excuse to scumread people or not on a whim and completely arbitrary. You can't measure the amount of fluff, and it has to be seen in context. When HTS posted fluff in her first post, it was scummy. Ninjabunnies had more fluff initially, but it wasn't so bad in itself.Why? Cause more people voted her! Clearly Xata has a blatant double standard here, and the read on NB should progress in the opposite way, if he had rolled town. | ||
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1) She easily gathered a ton of votes and the rest of the votes have been scattered around everywhere. This makes me think that the Mafia team is supporting her lynch or at the very least content with it. If that wasn't the case, I think her wagon would have been a bit weaker or at least there would be a competing wagon. Right now it just looks like 27ninjabunnies is heading to be lynched and the Mafia team is happy / doesn't care about it. It could be that the scumteam merely doesn't have that much thread presence or is bussing her. There is NOTHING in the thread to change one version to the other for Xata. The only thing that changed is that he ran out of breath in his push on HTS, and arbitrarily made something no townie has a way of knowing about into the opposite. First: "The scumteam is bandwagoning on bunnies" Last: "The scumteam is bussing bunnies or not doing anything" How is he supposed to know? Well, he isn't supposed to, but he just writes it one way or another when it's convenient and fits into his version of the game. This is no townie reasoning. | ||
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It's like all you're doing is attacking my cases for....actually what? It's not like you have something better to push behind it that would justify you taking the wind out of other people's sails. And when I asked you about your Xata read after you said I should ask you about a read you skipped over it, only to come back now when you have some more stuff to bitch about when I try to scumhunt. THAT is nitpicking. The timestamps are fine. Now show that you can do something constructive other than nitpicking or I'll make you regret it. After all apparently no one I mention is ever suspicious to you, no reason is good enough, and when you agree with me on something you still don't actually take the stance you claim to agree with, as shown with how you commented on my posts on Kelsier. Keep moving up the scum charts if you want. | ||
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On December 10 2014 14:35 rsoultin wrote: 1. You're wrong. I clearly did give a read here, even if it wasn't one you agreed with. 2. Took the time to actually check what you were saying, because it did hold water provided the timeline you presented was true. 3. Instead of double-checking yourself you're pretending like it's insignificant, when the main point of your read was that his read on 27nb was developing the "opposite" way that it should. Really, though I'm not fond of KSC either, I'm beginning to consider you as scum for being so determined to find reasons to push a weak lynch without taking the time to consider opposing viewpoints. I've considered yours. xP You still only talk about a little part of my case on Xata, plus you don't mention what kita said. It's like you have an agenda of putting stones into my way without actually being interested into figuring out Xatalos, cause then you would weigh in every piece of information. If you're a town with such a trash attitude, go troll somewhere else. What about his argument with the wagon first being mafia driven cause bunnies is town, then being mafia driven cause she's being bussed? Is that something a townie is able to say without knowing ANY alignment? What about his strange stance on fluff, and how he applies a different weight to it all the time? And the main point, if he had a townread on bunnies previously, why is he so eager to skip over her explanation? FTFY: I'm beginning to consider you as scum for being so determined to find reasons to push a | ||
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Cba to read him thoroughly atm, if you want you can point me to the interesting bits that warrant a read. | ||
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Could you clarify why you thought KSC's plan was an afterthought? I got the opposite feeling. Mainly for these reasons: 1) No scum in their right mind would blatantly bluefish for "setup reasons", then retract the idea a few minutes later... that's very risky play for Mafia and they would almost certainly double-check before proposing a plan like this, especially if he noticed that it was faulty in just a couple of minutes afterwards 2) I think his chain of posts were stupid / risky, but I can more easily believe it coming from over-eager town rather than suicidal scum 3) KSC did actually go after FF after that which leaves me to again think that it probably wasn't simply an afterthought So yeah, I don't really see your point here. Please enlighten me on why you think differently of KSC's play ther How is it risky? Did anyone call him scum just for that? No. So it's clearly not risky. If t was risky and you think it deserves a scumread, how do you explain that you townread him? Well, cause WIFOM, he did something you think is scummy and scum wouldn't do that so he's town. That's literally the reasoning you are using, and it's bad. It's just the same type of reasoning as saying "scum is wagoning on a town bunnies" and later say "scum is bussing bunnies or not caring about saving her" depending on how you read her at a particular moment. It's obvious bad reasoning that you add to find some more arguments for your change of opinion, in lack of better arguments. The chain of posts doesn't suggest at all he was chasing a masterplan there, it only suggests he found out that he was wrong on something and then looked at people without initially having intention to do so. Else he wouldn't have had a reason to claim out loud that he was wrong about something (so he would have had FF go look at the setup and correct him, that would have been a "trap play"). | ||
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On December 11 2014 01:10 KelsierSC wrote: wrong again. I already explained it and you just choose to ignore it again. It was a specific play I planned. Kush claimed a set up glitch, then said it was a mistake. exactly that. Why would there be any reason for FF to go back and correct a mistake you make if you correct it by yourself, if your plan was for him to go find that mistake? The "plan" how you put it now doesn't make the slightest sense. So then viv shows up and he just kind of bw onto nb by calling me scum but he can't just sheep the read right, he has to make up some reasons, so apparently my scrooge thing was scummy because i am trying to get scrooge to claim and not making a play. Also this is blatantly false. I never called your "plan" scummy. Read more carefully. I call Xatalos scummy cause he read your actions as a plan, not you. | ||
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Don't see a reason for anyone to question you more about something you've corrected yourself. If I say the sky is red, then correct myself and say "no sorry it's blue", why should anyone go look at it more closely and call you out for anything. We need a link to your previous game you're mentioning with quotes etc. to show you're truly imitating that plan in a similar context and not just making something up to fit into the version you're proposing. | ||
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I also need a link to the game you mentioned. | ||
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When I think someone is scum I'll look in their filter for as long as it takes to find the things proving that they are and to convince other people, and when people still don't listen I'll usually get very wordy, or contest the leading lynch. That's how I play town, and how you don't, so I think you're scummy and hence that answers: not sure why you are determined to throw scum on me. | ||
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He talks about a lot of stuff I use against him but leaves the part untouched where I say that he first townreads bunnies for having a wagon on her, then scumreads her for suddenly thinking that scum is bussing her. That's cause he couldn't find an argument against that which is still a pillar in my case. | ||
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Regarding 27ninjabunnies, there are two reasons that make me think she might be town: 1) She easily gathered a ton of votes and the rest of the votes have been scattered around everywhere. This makes me think that the Mafia team is supporting her lynch or at the very least content with it. If that wasn't the case, I think her wagon would have been a bit weaker or at least there would be a competing wagon. Right now it just looks like 27ninjabunnies is heading to be lynched and the Mafia team is happy / doesn't care about it. 2) If Half the Sky is Mafia, I feel it's quite unlikely that 27ninjabunnies is Mafia as well. Pre-flip association, I know, but I don't think scum Half the Sky would easily pile on a scum 27ninjabunnies wagon or that she would first start casually discussing with 27ninjabunnies and refer to her as town. So I don't really think 27ninjabunnies is a good lynch for these reasons. Maybe I was wrong about HTS. She seems to be actively doing stuff for now so it could be too hasty to lynch her. 27ninjabunnies on the other hand, doesn't look any better than earlier. Mainly for the fact that she defended froggy and then put him on her scumlist anyway when pressured. And townread the people who had stances against her own. Basically just meaningless listing contradicting her other posts. It could be that the scumteam merely doesn't have that much thread presence or is bussing her. ##Unvote ##Vote 27ninjabunnies And I don't care how careful you try to formulate your townreads. You threw a bunch of arguments out there for her being town, no matter how many "might be" you put in there. And later these arguments were reversed even in the light of new information from her. | ||
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Overall I'm willing to see where Xata and the other guys I've been calling out will be headed in the next days. Plus this game is just tiring on D1. There's no way anyone who isn't spending all his time on this game can have a good overview of everything going on, I just want this mountain of information to shrink atm, people shitposting didn't help the game. And I don't think that this looks necessarily like a town lynch cause mafia players can simply be passive about it...Or tried to get another lynch but went down in the noise and have been forgotten about. | ||
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On the other hand, if they don't have the branch manager and bunnies knows about it, they also know that a disgruntled worker doesn't have to be in the game. I'd not give weight to the claim but to the play. If you are town try to spend some time convincing us who to lynch instead. | ||
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On December 11 2014 07:04 Trfel wrote: Explanation of 27ninjabunnies vote: I'm currently on page 40. I was definitely not ready for the amount of posts that would be in a game with so few people. But at this rate, I will not be able to catch up in the thread by the voting deadline. I will keep checking the voting thread, and if it seems that 27ninjabunnies comes closer to not being lynched, I will change my vote. Reason for popping up just before the lynch? I've seen your town play and it was impressive, and this game you afked all day long? | ||
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We had a fast wagon that quickly had a lot of people on it, so scum basically had to do nothing while it looked like bunnies was the only option. We're looking for people that initially "scumhunted", then seemingly disappeared and came back at the end of the day to either stick to bunnies or talk about some other bs. Out of memory I recall bats doing something like that cause I don't recall arguing with him all day long, but he was back just before deadline. Anyone who still tried to find other scum in the middle of the day unpressured while it looked like bunnies was getting lynched gets townie points. | ||
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On December 11 2014 23:41 Half the Sky wrote: Vivax, since you're bringing up the idea of the "main wagon" what are your thoughts on Koshi's pushing 27NB the way he did? He's attacking a lot of the fluff (namely the manner of NB's rebuttal) though I do see he spent 3-4 posts on the same issue. Kelsier being her only read is a valid point, but it feels like overkill. Is this normal for him? I have never played with him. Koshi at least played the part right, if it was his mafia play. He didn't pretend to have as many scumreads as bats, and confidently pushed bunnies, no real discrepancy between what he claims and what he does there as opposed to bats. I'll use other means of reading him. But bats posted a whole list of people he would lynch and never showed any sort of doubt about where the lynch was heading, if he was making the right choice etc., he was too confident for my taste when he should have at least been wondering if he was making the right choice given his broad spectrum of options. | ||
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I'll hold back judgement on this one as I want to have more time for Koshi. | ||
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On December 12 2014 01:04 batsnacks wrote: I said shoot kush and if kush is mafia then so is ritoky. Yeah I confused the two of you cause you said similar things, the problem with not looking at your posts again before talking: This is what Koshi said. On December 11 2014 00:08 Koshi wrote: Anybody who believes Kush really thought he was scum because he had a red name and posted it in the thread cuz he couldn't care less is naive. Kush doesn't trow games as scum. He does ridiculous play as scum a lot. (Sometimes as town.) But he is not going to tell the thread he got a red role for shits and giggles. He knew something. Ritoky isn't doing jack-all. He is focussing on 1 person while he is a capable player and can easily focus on multiple people. I don't have the feeling Ritoky is looking at the bigger picture this game. But he is so sure about his 1 read. I find that odd. Very odd. If we don't lynch Ritoky he isn't a bad copcheck. Or shoot him. Depending on the afker. Not today. On December 11 2014 08:13 Koshi wrote: Shoot Kush = thx. It's funny how you both seem to point into the same direction. I wouldn't put weight into that yet cause the fact remains you first posted a list and then basically only focused on the main wagon while praying to a vig to fix the other problems. I'll take my time with more analysis cause the game is still too complex for my taste and I didn't yet look at everyone, so I can't say for sure you and Koshi are the only ones who exhibited that behaviour. | ||
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Totes not being cocky. However Arnie should simply shoot people you just skip by while reading cause they write gibberish or are too annoying to read, since they will never get lynched unless by policy and policy lynches don't work. | ||
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ritoky, FF, Oats for kita Obi, froggy and FF for lone I think ritoky for Koshi Kush got killed by Marley and played horribly. Gonna evaluate them individually. If we have a vig he's stupid for not killing Alakaslam. | ||
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Also I'd like you to answer to kita's points post-his-death. I'll try to carry on what the dead guys couldn't. | ||
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No, thank you, I have better means of wasting my time. What's so special in there? | ||
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Another townie bit I noticed about someone else was Obi saying "I don't have the grasp of what's going on in this game and that bothers me" which is something a townie will be subject to, not a scum. Don't see much reason for a scum to post such a thing. Just a thought that came to my mind and I'd like to share. Having narrowed down the list of the NKs suspects eliminating ritoky, I'd focus more on Fecalfeast and the fact that I don't see him being pushed a lot, overall he doesn't have anything memorable to begin with and that usually alarms me. Playing doto atm will analyse him thoroughly afterwards. | ||
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On December 09 2014 09:12 Fecalfeast wrote: I thought being thick was a prerequisite for sumo. "You are already breaking the rules , resigned to the outside of the ring . Why are trying to order you still fight" No rules were established beforehand but if you don't want to fite I wont force you. I was about to comment on the 27NB post but HF beat me to it. Her 'easy scum read' is in her scum pile because only scum is looking for easy scum reads... One interesting bit I find in retrospect is this one. He wanted to talk about the 27nb stuff apparently and when catching up with his comment he seems to rehearse what HF said but without taking any opinion on it. 27nb also doesn't appear in his further reasoning. As shown here: On December 09 2014 10:12 Fecalfeast wrote: I'd lynch templar because his posts, while long, are full of more fluff than slam's. idk who kita is but it's still early so give him a break I'd lynch sicklucker because I wanted to plynch him last game and he was scum. This reply, in context, is meant to imitate what GB wrote, not really sure if trolling. I'll assume he isn't for now. I really hate posts like these cause they are so ambiguous. It's the sort of stuff people can use to say "but look I have made reads", or if you question their validity they can say "nah man I was just joking as a reply" as they see fit in a specific moment. Needs clearing up from FF. ______________________ Another matter is how he starts the game going after Alakaslam in a dramatic sumo-suit fashion. Again ambiguous so hard to tell if he's joking or serious, assuming serious again, then this later post of his doesn't make much sense: On December 09 2014 08:47 Fecalfeast wrote: Developing a read on slam seems like something nobody can reliably do so I may as well try On December 09 2014 10:20 Fecalfeast wrote: I think slam seems the exact same in every game. Any tips for reading him? So he's telling us he can't read Slam but still tries to at the start of the game. Obviously a futile effort. I have the same opinion about reading Slam and my solution to it is to ignore his posts until it really becomes a pressing matter to decide on him. Yet he tries it at the start of the game but sees 27nb as a secondary issue he barely comments on. As of now I'd lynch this guy for making so little sense and talking about stuff that should be irrelevant to him (Alakaslam), and when he pretends it's relevant (comment on 27nb without ever further elaborating something on her) it really isn't. Overall his play is a pain to read and I have a hard time imagining him as town. | ||
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In this game he has 1 page of filter and is constantly under the radar, doesn't try to have an impact on the game, and makes his entrance just pre-deadline for no particular given reason/excuse. | ||
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So you thought froggynoddys entrance was bad but didn't give a shit about him afterwards, also you include arguments for him being scum but only focus on HF today. Needless to say how that looks to me. Unless you have an explanation for only bringing up that entry as scummy now that you use it in your case against HF. Not impressed at all. | ||
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- GB for this discrepancy in his case. The froggynoddy suspicion is entirely new and he doesn't look included among his scumspects. Rather fresh scumread stemming from that HF case, still have to look for more stuff thoroughly. - TheTemplar for not being the ballsy, (scumhuntingly) talkative town templar who always gets townread D1 and mostly NKd N1. Gut based explanation, check for inconsistencies also pending here (yes I'm not going through as many filters thoroughly as I probably should yet, besides we can't lynch all of em today so I think it's fine) - Fecalfeast for some of the stuff I found in his filter and already mentioned, plus he martyrs at various points, like during N1 and lately when he sort of expressed he doesn't care about the scumreads. But it's not the sort of righteous townie martyr when somebody is genuinely pissed off about people scumreading him or the sort, it's more like the "I don't care about the game"- martyr. Additionally he was in the focus of the night killed guys. - Trfel for playing extremely subpar to his last game when he's capable of much much more. He doesn't want to stand in the spotlight in this game. There's probably 5 scum since the formula for scummers is usually amount of players / 5. I don't know why people go on so much about tubesock claiming there's 5 scum being a scumslip. Scumslips are overrated in all the games I've played in save very few exceptions. Overall I find him tedious to read cause he has such a weird way of expressing himself, if I would give him a read it certainly wouldn't be cause of that. Finding the likely 5th scum pending. Tempted to look into the direction of Oats, soultin, Kelsier for this one. | ||
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On December 13 2014 12:32 batsnacks wrote: Vivax vote Trfel with me? Or maybe rsoultin. He has a stick up his ass this game. He was a lot calmer last game. I've never seen anyone engage me as calmly as he did in Student Mafia and I was out in full force. What do you think about the other guys. I'm up for any of them really. Waiting for people's feedback and seeing where they stand. | ||
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On December 13 2014 13:06 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'm kind of tempted to lynch Vivax atm. That last list post was pretty bad. What's bad about letting you know the synopsis of what I've been observing this game? I made a summary of different things I pointed out about different people, and instead of leaving it at that effectually achieving nothing cause I seem all over the place and with no clear goal, I'm trying to set a waypoint from where I officially want to go on for today's lynch. And since I talk about multiple people, it becomes a list post. Which isn't bad in itself if it has a foundation. It just looks like you're bitching about me formatting it as a list rather than the content. Also @ Bats I need more reasons than that to be sold on a rsoultin lynch, can you find anything special in his filter. Another post from GB that freaks me out: On December 12 2014 22:12 GlowingBear wrote: Frogs entrance is horrible, but I'm okay with this read on Templar. I don't see it like too fluffy. I don't understand how somebody GB should be suspicious of makes "okay reads" when there is no indication that GB takes a good look at it, since I would expect him to agree with that read if he finds it ok. And if he agrees with it then he should find Templar lynch worthy. And if he doesn't, why doesn't he try to pick it apart and instead only finds it "ok"? | ||
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On December 13 2014 13:16 ObiWanShinobi wrote: That's not the problem. Go through his filter. All of his scumreads are incredibly spaced out and based on flimsy evidence, and he never follows up on any of it. The only hard scumread he had all game was Xatalos, in yet he completely abandoned that push over a nonreason and hasn't given him any thought. Think about scum's objectives and think about town's objectives. Scum's job is to pass suspicion across a large number of players in order to increase the mislynch pool. Town needs to find and lynch scum. I really don't get the feeling that Vivax is out to lynch scum. His scumreads are way too hazy for that. Xata replied to my case over multiple posts in a way I found satisfactory and I saw myself being proven wrong in the point that it wasn't a trap play from Kelsier. Simple as that. When I'm wrong I'm wrong and I don't have to cling onto a scumread when proven wrong about my arguments. Don't know how you want me to follow up on scumreads if not by pointing out to the thread what I find scummy about people in detail which is what I have been doing all game long. We have a lot of players and I take a look at a good amount of them. You are basically suggesting that town should pursue the nonsensical play of having a narrow spectrum of people to suspect in a game of this size, while scum writes about everyone they can. Since you speak of flimsy evidence, a generalization like that is lazy and basically claims that all of my cases have been like that when you didn't take the time to pick apart my cases in detail. IN FACT, you sheeped my Xatalos case early on and now claim it's part of the "flimsy evidence", effectively claiming you've trusted a case earlier you now say had flimsy evidence. On December 13 2014 13:19 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't understand what you get out of setting a "waypoint." Clarify? It makes you all know where I stand and who I would lynch and opens up discussion with me on any of the subjects mentioned, whether people disagree or agree. | ||
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On December 13 2014 13:27 GlowingBear wrote: I wasn't following the thread as I said multiple times, so your argument is invalid. You are also using ad hominem instead considering my whole argument GUUS IM DEUNK You aren't following the thread but you say that froggys entrance was bad, his case on templar was ok without you actually giving an opinion on the case or templar, and you followed all of that but you aren't following the thread so you aren't to be held accountable for anything. Uh huh. | ||
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On December 13 2014 13:35 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Meh, I'm willing to let Vivax play things out a bit more. I'll be watching. Not so fast, acting all high and mighty as if you are only to be the judge and not to be judged. How can you say everything I do was based on flimsy evidence when you've previously found some of my arguments good and townread me based on some post back then. It's a very drastic 180 ° that brings up questions. | ||
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On December 13 2014 13:40 rsoultin wrote: Viva, if you have questions for me, I am here to answer them, so it's a good time to ask. I will say, though, that GB looks like a good lynch to me today. Drunk or not. He's managed to have an excuse all game...not sitting well with me at all. I do have a question and it's the fact that you bring up more points on ritoky being scum than GB being scum. You make a whole list of points that in your opinion speak for ritoky being mafia but your reasons for voting GB are that he's not living up to your standards and making excuses. From my perspective your preference should be weighted towards ritoky. Why isn't that the case? @ Bats (and thread) Trfel didn't copypaste anything from me last game. I only gave him general advice on the game, he made his own reads and posts. For today I would prioritize FF and GB given the NKs and the arguments on the two which are less gut based than the others, also I'm waiting for you (bats) to give me your thoughts on the other guys I mentioned, please. | ||
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On December 13 2014 13:58 batsnacks wrote: @Vivax the other three people on that list who weren't Trfel you said were gut reads. I similarly don't have "thoughts" but gut feelings on those people. I am not convinced any of them are scum except for Trfel. I could skim through filters and find 1 townie thing or 1 scummy thing they did to support my gut read... like you probably did. But I'm saying it like it is. Gut says GB, FF, and templar are maybe town. I'm less confident about GB and templar, they're closer to null. Trfel is the only person on that list I feel strongly about. Fact of the matter is that I have arguments for both GB and FF being scum, not just gut reads. The gut reads are basically everyone else (Templar, trfel) since those arguments rely on their meta. GB's stance regarding froggy doesn't make sense since he scumreads him for his entrance but doesn't try to analyse his templar read further besides saying "it's ok". Also he says it's ok but he doesn't scumread templar so I wonder how he can find a read ok if he doesn't agree with it? Plus his narrowness on having HF as scumread and not openly considering a froggy lynch even though he gave all the arguments for his being a scum entrance. | ||
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GB froggy FecalFeast OWS Oats I suggest we start with Fecal today and go on with GB tomorrow as they were what I perceive as the main focus of the NKd guys. I'd also put bats as a possibility since he doesn't read my posts carefully and wants me to get onto Trfel so badly while blending out the other possibilities. | ||
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On December 13 2014 15:06 Holyflare wrote: Oooooooooo Vivax can you explain why you left damdred out of this list of dead peoples reads you were checking or is it because he opened an exploding present and wasn't a nk ? Cause he claimed joyful child or w/e it's called and I figured mafia mostly killed him for being a named VT and not for his reads. Tho in my latest post I also considered his reads, given that other JC claims didn't die. | ||
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On December 13 2014 15:12 Holyflare wrote: Cool tings. Not sure I entirely agree with the froggy read though I thought he looked at least a little towny. Is that just a read you're sheeping or your own? Undecided about obi too There's just a lot of people not interested in solving the game at all on day 2 of the game which is a bit frustrating because I have a list of like 2 or 3 fairly good mafia reads and then quite a few might be mafia/might not bes Well what you see there are mostly conclusions that I draw from the NK analysis, I don't really care about froggy for now and would like to see FF or GB lynched today as they both are in the focus of most of the killed guys and I also found arguments for both of them. I'm quite pleased that Alakaslam read the points on FF and found them convincing (and actually plays the game with some seriousness), so I'll try to boost the momentum to do what the dead guys couldn't. ##Vote FecalFeast | ||
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On December 13 2014 15:21 batsnacks wrote: Will you reiterate what you drew from NK analysis that made you vote FF? I want to sheep you but I can't until I'm sure this makes sense. You could also read the thingy Alakaslam quoted to sheep the read or do the NK analysis yourself, I'm not your butler you know. You have eyes and you have a brain, but you apparently don't have the motivation to look it up for yourself. Anyway, cause I'm a nice guy and I want to win, here the bits (Koshi doesn't scumread FF however, in fact Koshi is probably the least informative since he mostly focused on lynching 27nb) : On December 10 2014 18:21 LoneMeow wrote: I could lynch this guy. First posts a large amount of mostly oneliners that aren't pertinent to finding scum, then says he's near the post limit so he's going to lurk. So anti town. There's also this: He dropped his scum read (which I assume was his strongest, given where his vote was) due to the "claim" but didn't reasses the situation in any way once the "claim" was explained to be a misunderstanding. Not what I would expect from a town player in that situation. ##Vote: Fecalfeast On December 10 2014 02:45 Damdred wrote: Heres the group I would be happy lynching into today Froggy: One post said he was going to bed, the post had plenty of double speak in it and he hasn't returned and its been quite awhile (which isn't inherrintly scummy) Bats: Hes probably the least hesitant that I would be willing to lynch into. Besides a couple of posts he is completely forgettable, he misrepresented peoples posts and then was forced to play and lurked since then. FF: His posts seem to lack direction and its really difficult to even remember what all hes been doing in the thread without reading his filter. I'm not sure that I would lynch 27nb today, she has done some scummy things i'm just a bit hesitant and the follow up to her return will decide that. People i won't listen about: Damdred, SL, Templars, HF, Koshi, RS, Oats, probably LS, kush People who i love but am suspicious of Xatalos (its just so formulaic and looks so town, he once told me that hes probably mafia when he actually looks town) GB: Hasn't really read the thread yet has pretty unexplained reads tried to get people to view him as town becasue he had a present what? Unexplained scum read on templars I think even though hes claimed HTS pretty unremarkable play so far but i doubt i would lynch her, even though the posts are scattered does have a somewhat direction and train of thought. Tube: Need him to post more but he is seeming okish so far one of my top lynches is a policy lynch basically and i know that, which makes his post even more hilarious to me. | ||
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On December 12 2014 07:59 kitaman27 wrote: Here are my reads after night one. I usually take until day three or four to get a good grasp of what is going on in larger games so I'm sure a bunch of these will change with more information. Leaning Mafia: Fecalfeast
Oatsmaster
ritoky
NULL: Koshi
ObiWanShinobi
The_Templar
GlowingBear
To be continued: I've run out of time and need to get this post in before the deadline. I don't want to put them down as null since I may develop a town/mafia read after looking closer at their filters. If I survive the night, I'll finish up with these during day two. Tubesock KelsierSC Xatalos liancourt batsnacks Half the Sky froggynoddy Alakaslam Leaning Town: Not really going to spend time justifying any of these. Some of these reads are stronger than others. Damdred LoneMeow LightningStrike sicklucker Holyflare Vivax rsoultin Trfel (lol I should probably be putting him under NULL) Why did you sign up for this game category: kushm4sta
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On December 13 2014 15:36 Oatsmaster wrote: How is nk analysis even relevant? Its straight up speculation. Look at how many other reads the dead people have. Fecal has more posts than like 50% of the game. Come on Vivax/hf other bad people. This post looks so mafia to me right now. | ||
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On December 13 2014 15:42 rsoultin wrote: Heh, don't actually agree on that one, Viva. FF isn't the worst lynch we could do (which is why I wouldn't cry tears over it) but based off of NKs when we're not sure who or what killed who...and also assuming that there weren't any other reasons for killing them other than their scum reads...seems like a stretch. I'm willing to entertain a proper case against FF though. Even willing to look at him more closely myself, but he does come off a lot like another kush lol >< THE CASE IS OUT. Find it in my filter, or look at what Alakaslam quoted. Also I want to go into more detail on what Oats said there: He completely skipped over all of the reasoning used to only argue for FF being town cause of his mere post count, he's putting zero effort in to get a read on him in any other way. It's not like he has a way of being sure about FFs alignment yet, no evidence of an opinion on FF in his filter. He just dismisses the case without caring in the slightest whether FF is actually town or mafia. | ||
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This is all you have to sheep, I suggest you actually go back and read what he wrote D1, everything kita says is verifiable and true: On December 12 2014 07:59 kitaman27 wrote: Oatsmaster
And I'll put this on top: On December 13 2014 15:36 Oatsmaster wrote: How is nk analysis even relevant? Its straight up speculation. Look at how many other reads the dead people have. Fecal has more posts than like 50% of the game. Come on Vivax/hf other bad people. On December 13 2014 15:47 Vivax wrote: Also I want to go into more detail on what Oats said there: He completely skipped over all of the reasoning used to only argue for FF being town cause of his mere post count, he's putting zero effort in to get a read on him in any other way. It's not like he has a way of being sure about FFs alignment yet, no evidence of an opinion on FF in his filter. He just dismisses the case without caring in the slightest whether FF is actually town or mafia. ##Unvote ##Vote Oatsmaster And this gave me a good laugh: On December 12 2014 07:59 kitaman27 wrote: kushm4sta
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On December 13 2014 09:13 sicklucker wrote: Damdred died to a present tho this is like mostly confirmed because the veg would not have killed anyone who died. Kush would have died anyway. They have a bank manager or the other killer its kind of irrelevant but they definitely have one. rsoultin your post was pure fluff that I already explained you got a bad habit of this. And yes ritokys claim is validated if he kills a mafia. Does anyone have an explanation for this statement??? | ||
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By contrast Oats only has 3 pages, but most of his posts you can seem him keeping things on topic, pushing discussion, questioning reads and pointing out logic flaws. You clearly didn't read what kita wrote, else you wouldn't be saying this. D1 he made a too scummy to be scum defense of bunnies, said at some point "I'm not really defending her", just pre-lynch he says "Meh I don't really mind if she dies" and who was his scumread throughout this? Froggynoddy. As for his interactions with froggy on D1, we have a grand total of 1, one, ONE question directed to him that lacks followup and looks completely pointless: "So are you saying you have no strong reads either way". And with that being said, your post I'm quoting displays you didn't read Oats as carefully as you claim but instead try to depict him in a favourable light for I don't know what reason. | ||
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GET OFF THAT WAGON PLS AND STOP DISCUSSING PRESENTS/AMOUNT OF NKS IN THE GAME WTF | ||
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If someone can convince me that dude is town, then I'll consider moving my vote to a not-tubesock wagon that isn't Fecal or Oats. | ||
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On December 14 2014 06:09 Fecalfeast wrote: Yeah keep in mind, if I get lynched, who used night kill analysis to scumread me. Keep in mind who is defending HF by swinging their votes from tubesack to me. I'm a proponent of the church of GlowingBear now. I do not fear dying for my god. Let's just assume for a moment you're town. Why are you playing this game? You complain whenever there's something new to read, you don't try to find scum, and when you do it's by you being a passive prick that wants to die, saying that scum are the people pushing you and your argument for that is your alignment post-flip. The thought that you might be town scares me. | ||
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Why is GB so stuck on HF and never on froggy when he mentions them both in one go? It just seems unnatural he would put all his efforts into HF ONLY and not at least try to discern more of froggy at the same time. | ||
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Would enjoy if HF got in here and replied to the GB case before I place my vote. So, GB. Apparently you should scumread froggy too but none of that is evident, how's that? | ||
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##Vote HF | ||
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On December 14 2014 07:35 Trfel wrote: I would love to. Please tell me why, other than linking GlowingBear's post. Cause I read his post and it convinced me, nothing else really. | ||
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On December 14 2014 12:31 rsoultin wrote: Lol...I remember your Xatalos case and only thinking one point was even worth considering. And today it's all about analyzing NKs as proof against FF, completely ignoring suspicions of Trfel before he came out with his case, scumreading people for not liking your NK analysis and jumping ship off of KSC which is a vote you were in on when it wasn't gaining much traction for no other reason than you read someone else's case and it convinced you. Not even an explanation as to which part convinced you or why despite being asked multiple times. You are firmly in my scum circle right now, buddy. Unless you care to clear all this up for me. So when Trfel was bats tom scumspect and bats literally begged me to form a wagon on him, but I refused cause in my mind there was legitimately bigger fish to fry, why didn't I do it when he appeared as such an easy lynch? Easy answer: I'm town. Or my interaction where I argue for ages with Kelsier, is that scum/scum in your opinion? Until you clear up these questions I'm not scum. Worst case I'm a townie who's wrong, so tell me where I'm wrong (and weren't you the guy who agreed with me on my Xata case after some talk? Or was it tube) | ||
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On December 14 2014 12:59 rsoultin wrote: Agreed on the one point and debunked all your others ^^ That was when you called me a gnat as I recall. Why did you switch? Which part of GBs case convinced you? Can't say, just the overall case sounded convincing to me and I got reservations about lynching FF when some guy told me he plays like that as town, so I was looking for another wagon. GB going nuts about lynching HF looked townie to me so I trusted his judgement to that extent (as in, assumed the case was not mafia motivated). Can't really point to a specific point that I found particularly convincing, HF claims it's all lies now and I was too lazy to fact check so for now I'm back to zero and prefer to start over again by analysing what Kelsier did, and the wagons in general. At this stage if I take a wild guess, then HF was the scum's wagon, or FF. Or both. | ||
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Guess I was too hasty with townreading him for that lynch. | ||
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Would you care to try and find the scum in the wagons of the lynch? It's 7 to 8 and I would figure there were attempts from scum to stop Kelsier from being lynched. Check Oats vote on me. Useless. And he's not the guy who doesn't care where his vote is, when he's town. Would be cool to have some fresh perspective on the game that doesn't just revolve around GB. We're dealing with multiple scummers. | ||
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On December 14 2014 14:04 Trfel wrote: Vivax. Do you still think that Holyflare is scum? Why or why not? I rather think not just cause of the wagons, he's probably the counterwagon to Kelsier. Why did you switch your vote to him without saying it in thread? | ||
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On December 13 2014 11:23 Vivax wrote: @ GB So you thought froggynoddys entrance was bad but didn't give a shit about him afterwards, also you include arguments for him being scum but only focus on HF today. Needless to say how that looks to me. Unless you have an explanation for only bringing up that entry as scummy now that you use it in your case against HF. Not impressed at all. On December 13 2014 14:16 Vivax wrote: Fact of the matter is that I have arguments for both GB and FF being scum, not just gut reads. The gut reads are basically everyone else (Templar, trfel) since those arguments rely on their meta. GB's stance regarding froggy doesn't make sense since he scumreads him for his entrance but doesn't try to analyse his templar read further besides saying "it's ok". Also he says it's ok but he doesn't scumread templar so I wonder how he can find a read ok if he doesn't agree with it? Plus his narrowness on having HF as scumread and not openly considering a froggy lynch even though he gave all the arguments for his being a scum entrance. | ||
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On December 14 2014 14:42 Trfel wrote: Sorry, I asked for your additions on GlowingBear's case, not your thoughts on GlowingBear's alignment. My claim that you had none is directly based on your response: Well in that case, I have nothing to add. I sheeped that case cause it convinced me in that particular moment when I started to feel less sure about the FF read. Do with it what you will, but I can't think of stuff I came up with on my own to scumread HF. Yes, it's lazy, but I don't want to make it appear like I did when I really didn'T. | ||
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On September 14 2014 02:20 Oatsmaster wrote: I really need to go to sleep. Sheep me Vivax. but dont fucking lynch me. I will come to your house and pee on your plants if you do. Anyway, read Oats filter from this post on, he's super tryhard and even posts at 2 am to make his point clear. He doesn't just leave his vote somewhere and call it a day. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/465384-mission-mini-mafia?user=Oatsmaster&view=all | ||
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Like super mafia. | ||
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On December 14 2014 15:08 sicklucker wrote: Also trefels is almost certainly town for pushing that lynch even if he changed his vote (which I also read as town) . I thought that was so obvious another reason of many to scum read vivax. So you scumread people for having an opinion that differs from yours at some point?You should scumread the entire playerbase then. It's pretty obvious that if someone dismisses his own case on scum to switch to not-scum then it's worth an inquiry. | ||
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For Trfel: + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2014 16:28 Trfel wrote: I never changed my mind about wanting to see KelsierSC lynched. I tried to make that clear when I changed my vote. Here is a list of every reason why I changed my vote: 1. Lack of confidence in my own reads after being wrong on 2/2 big reads in the Student Mafia IV game 2. Confusion over what's happening in the game and being unable to follow everything as carefully as I would like 3. Holyflare is a very strong player and will provide strong arguments against being lynched as either alignment 4. My case on KelsierSC picked up a lot of support very quickly, which I found really weird, since it didn't feel quite as strong as the cases I made in the previous game, and those cases didn't build up much support despite my constant pressure 5. I trusted the reads of veterans like GlowingBear and Vivax over my own 6. I agreed with Vivax that the way GlowingBear was going about pushing the Holyflare lynch seemed towny I could have missed something, but I think that's about it. Yes, if I was mafia I can see that I would switch votes to Holyflare to avoid KelsierSC, my mafia buddy, getting lynched. But what I cannot see is why I would choose that time to switch. It's basically the worst time for it. Plus, in the event that KelsierSC had avoided the lynch, it cost me the town credit I might have gained (see Vivax's post). Again, it was a moronic thing to do, regardless of my alignment. To the bolded: If you switched and Kelsier didn't flip, there would've been no cred to be gained, but you also would have kept a teammate which is way better than cred. Anyway, I don't feel like lynching you any soon since you've been the hero of yesterday, whether you wanted it or not ^^. I took a look at your timing for the switch and well. It was while KSC vs HF was 8 to 6, so you made it 7 to 7, without really changing anything cause the guy who achieves majority first is lynched. And while the lynch was still set on Kels, Obi also came in and put another vote on top. Anyway looking through all this stuff made me notice more of Xatalos stuff being scummy: ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ So, here, in spoilers, is the votecount with the last votes: + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2014 07:08 marvellosity wrote: Counting the votecounts KelsierSC (7): liancourt (0): GlowingBear (0): Tubesock (2): ritoky (0): froggynoddy (0): Half the Sky (0): Holyflare (6): GlowingBear, Fecalfeast (3): Oatsmaster (0): Vivax (1): Oatsmaster sicklucker (0): Trfel (1): Currently KelsierSC is set to be lynched. 51m until deadline. On December 14 2014 07:25 Xatalos wrote: b]##Unvote ##Vote KelsierSC On December 14 2014 07:39 Trfel wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Holyflare On December 14 2014 07:46 ObiWanShinobi wrote: ##vote ksc On December 14 2014 08:01 marvellosity wrote: The End of Counts KelsierSC (8): liancourt (0): GlowingBear (0): Tubesock (2): ritoky (0): froggynoddy (0): Half the Sky (0): Holyflare (7): GlowingBear, Fecalfeast (2): Oatsmaster (0): Vivax (1): Oatsmaster sicklucker (0): Trfel (1): KelsierSC was lynched! Xata disagreed with GB about HF and thus only had the option of either lynching FF, the scumread he claimed to have, or Kelsier. He did switch at 8 to 6, so assuming he's mafia he had no teammates spare to do a saving switch. Well why is he mafia? Stuff I mentioned earlier: - He townread Kels off the trap play when it wasn't so evident it was trap play at start. Kelsier happily backed up this version and I argued with him over it. Then the later part of my case which I don't remember atm but you can go look it up New stuff: On December 14 2014 05:30 Xatalos wrote: What's the case on HF really? I wasn't impressed with anything posted against him earlier and I think he said he's now at his post limit... So it'd definitely be the optimal time for a mislynch on him (assuming, which is pretty likely, that there are scum pushing his wagon when it's gained steam so easily despite no good reason). On the other hand, Tube's recent posting has been so crazy and frantic that I can kind of see it coming more from town than scum...... Well, I don't like how he's throwing his vote pretty much anywhere it sticks, but he doesn't look like he cares much for his appearance. That's usually associated with town. I wouldn't lynch SL, HF or KSC now. Perhaps Tube is town too after all. rsoultin, is your case on Trfel basically about his inactivity? I think I'd rather lynch FF than him for reasons previously mentioned. ##Unvote ##Vote Fecalfeast I'll be phoneposting when I can until deadline. On December 14 2014 05:41 Xatalos wrote: KSC doesn't even have many votes and besides there are far better lynch candidates. On December 14 2014 05:44 Xatalos wrote: What's your read on FF? He's the biggest alternative wagon to you. On December 14 2014 06:59 Xatalos wrote: Damn I can't really focus well right now. Anyways I looked at the case briefly earlier and I think KSC explained the last point decently during N1. I'll look at it again as soon as I can. I can lynch KSC over HF/SL though if it comes down to it. On December 14 2014 07:25 Xatalos wrote: Well, I can see the appeal in that KSC case. Not sure about the ritoky point on its own since KSC explained that decently I think, but it seems like there's a larger theme of weird read changes during the game for him. It lends credibility to the idea that he's making stuff up. Forgetting several things and making a meta scumread without apparently knowing much about that particular meta. I think it's a decent lynch at least compared to some like HF/SL (and perhaps Tube too). It should also be somewhat telling of FF's alignment so it's not too bad. ##Unvote ##Vote KelsierSC So what we see is that he sets himself up to lynch FF, TRFEL's case on Kelsier happened at December 13 2014 22:06.. Xatalos ignores it claiming first he wouldn't lynch him. Later his argument becomes that there aren't many votes on Kelsier and far better lynch candidates. All while only having FF as visible scumread. He prods tubesock in what I think was an attempt to move his vote onto FF. In the next post, and this is a hammer, he states that Kels explained a part of it decently. But after the aggressive remark from rasputin, he decides -suddenly- that he could lynch Kelsier over the other dudes. When he looks at the case again, it sways him as opposed to last time. When does this happen? Roughly 30 mins before deadline, when it was 7 - 7 and it looked like Kelsier was getting lynched. Xatalos has been very passive and not really been trying to force his point of view about FF. Instead he adapted his opinion about Kels to the opinion of the guys questioning him, and then voted him when it didn't really matter. In summary, I think this is a scumswitch. | ||
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On December 13 2014 04:00 Xatalos wrote: Out of the current wagons, I think the KSC wagon is the worst. He's made several plays that are unlikely to come from scum (baiting reactions by making himself look bad, suggesting delaying the 27nb lynch when he's next in line himself, etc.) and his posts during N1 seemed fine. The wagon on him also looks all but inspiring (all the voters are sketchy or at best somewhat nullish players). lol | ||
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Out of the current wagons, I think the KSC wagon is the worst. He's made several plays that are unlikely to come from scum (baiting reactions by making himself look bad, suggesting delaying the 27nb lynch when he's next in line himself, etc.) and his posts during N1 seemed fine. The wagon on him also looks all but inspiring (all the voters are sketchy or at best somewhat nullish players). Damn I can't really focus well right now. Anyways I looked at the case briefly earlier and I think KSC explained the last point decently during N1. I'll look at it again as soon as I can. I can lynch KSC over HF/SL though if it comes down to it. Well, I can see the appeal in that KSC case. Not sure about the ritoky point on its own since KSC explained that decently I think, but it seems like there's a larger theme of weird read changes during the game for him. It lends credibility to the idea that he's making stuff up. Forgetting several things and making a meta scumread without apparently knowing much about that particular meta. I think it's a decent lynch at least compared to some like HF/SL (and perhaps Tube too). It should also be somewhat telling of FF's alignment so it's not too bad. I mean, look at this. The guy he first calls the worst wagon, is suddenly someone "he can lynch" before he even reviewed the KSC case. | ||
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On December 15 2014 00:30 Xatalos wrote: Vivax, he was a worse lynch than ritoky or Tube, not worse than HF. Besides, by the end of D2, ritoky seemed better (considering the present analysis) and Tube looked better (his frantic deadline posting). Also I only said that I'd lynch KSC over HF before reading the case fully... Which had been my stance all along. You should really put a bit more effort in your arguments. That's bullshit though, you mention arguments for Kelsier being town on multiple occasions, there is no evidence that all your arguments are based on PoE regarding Tube and ritoky. You townread him for the trap play since D1, keep that argument all throughout D2, only to throw it away when it looks like he's getting lynched. | ||
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Am I missing a key point somewhere? Yes. The reasons for Xata switching at EoD look over-explained when the reason could simply have been that FF wasn't going to happen and KSC was his only remaining option. | ||
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On December 15 2014 05:01 Xatalos wrote: I don't think I've ever actually scumread Vivax. He was actually one of my highest townreads at some point, but currently I'm not really sure what to think... It's weird how he totally dropped the push on me and suddenly just returned to it. And again with bad reasons. Thinking about it, I can't recall any great (or even that good) points that he's brought forth. Maybe I was wrong about him. Dude you have no idea how formulaic and artificial you sound when you're scum. I remember that game where you were town and EVERYBODY had trouble reading you until town started winning. That's cause you were more natural and less diplomatic than you are now. I'm here in the thread, talk to me, you put a vote with no effect on a scummer you townread since D1 right at EoD piling up a bunch of half-assed reasons. You ignored what I wrote on Kelsier D1. You townread him for trap play before he explained it was trap play. Yes, I already mentioned this. And if you want to push me as scumread then start immediately cause I wanna have a good laugh. | ||
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On December 15 2014 05:05 rsoultin wrote: I just filter-dived both of you, to be honest, and while I saw some questionable logic on both ends, I didn't get the impression that either of you were acting scummy. (And Viva, I was looking at you particularly close, even beginning to build a case, but there really wasn't one there to my eyes.) I don't really understand the obsession with the town flips' scum lists though, Viva. That was your primary focus all day yesterday. Why? You don't really think scum is killing people for their scum lists like Tube does, do you? Look at the list of probably towns Kelsier wrote, look at the nightkills, start thinking why scum chooses certain people. It's for their appearance and their reads. Then look at the D2 wagons knowing that it was a really close call between scum and between HF. Obviously if HF is scum this all falls apart and I'd expect them to have gone full bus on Kelsier. | ||
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On December 15 2014 05:40 Xatalos wrote: ....What? I just specifically said that Oats needs attention from his apathy / vote behaviour. And I do have reads. I just don't think it's the best time to go making lists right now. Needs attention is no opinion at all. Needs attention is saying you aren't going to do jack but you make it look like you care that some people find him scummy. The ones who really care go through his filter and talk about their conclusions in the thread. | ||
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On December 15 2014 05:54 Xatalos wrote: I think I was the first one to even mention his D2 play and how detached it was. Then some people defended him. So it's the opposite of what you're saying. Whatever. You're just tunneling and pointing everything I do or might do as scummy. Not very productive to discuss from that stance. Cool that you try to take cred for pointing out something about someone you don't wanna read either way. If you're so sure your points were good, and still are, why not scumread him? There's plenty of scum left and FF was your last read. It's not clear where you stand now. | ||
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On December 15 2014 06:06 sicklucker wrote: Ls is never gonna claim a random role and pray no one else has is because thats a bad play. Hes also a scared newb no offense that would never make a play like that. People you can shoot Slam froggy (probably this guy wtf is he even playing) tube oats vivax? ff Guys you should never shoot due to technical reasons Ls ( confirmed you baddies) Ritoky ( has a gun) Hf (claimed) Gb (kind of because hes so aligned with ritoky that if ritoky kills a mafia and gets confirmed so will he) obiwan ( he hammered mafia kp hes probably dead tonight anyway) FecalFeast? You think he has been bussed from Kelsier since D1? Me? What is this shit, literally. | ||
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On December 15 2014 06:11 Xatalos wrote: This is giving me flashbacks of Damdred from last game... Originally I thought Oats was quite likely scum for not caring much about the D2 lynch. Then some people pointed out that as scum he should have showed up at deadline as KSC was a lynch candidate so maybe he really was just busy yesterday. So now I'm somewhat back to null on him. So he can be busy as town but not busy as scum? What kind of argument is that??? If EoD is right at nighttime for him it doesn't matter whether he's town or scum, he's busy so he's busy. He's not going to set the alarm at EoD just cause of the eventuality that his scumbuddy gets lynched, and even if he does, how does he justify the voteswitch? Excuses over excuses | ||
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You arbitrarily say that as scum he wouldn't be busy when it matters. Just as the scummy argument you used regarding 27nb. First she's probably town cause of the easy wagon, later she can be scum cause scum doesn't care or is bussing her. You ooze scum so badly it hurts that nobody wants to lynch you. | ||
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On December 15 2014 06:28 Fecalfeast wrote: They were both on the wagon on me, xat being the last to unvote me and vivax unvoted me but re-voted once kelsier voted me. I was on HF.....with you. Can you even read a votecount? | ||
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On December 15 2014 07:03 rsoultin wrote: Flawed. Just...flawed. You've already claimed you have a role, so it's not going to matter now if you wait or not if you're not scum so...why don't you just out with it then? Not to mention Trfel (and others) have already pointed out the problem with claiming this game -_- So why you feel the need to throw it out there now I have no idea. I'm surely not going to out it before the night ends. Scum doesn't know if my role is scrooge related and hence useless or if I can use my power to better ends, if I claim it now they know exactly whether to rb/shoot me or not. | ||
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On December 15 2014 07:06 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'm perfectly okay with you claiming and getting rb'd or shot. Saves us the trouble of sorting you. I find it curious you put so much faith into people being on the correct wagon when your vote, along with Xatalos' achieved exactly nothing besides you being able to say that now. | ||
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On December 15 2014 07:11 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Holy shit. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard you say. Ever. No cause you say scum is on the other wagons and scum wouldn't try to vote for their scumbuddy right at the end to not look badly when he flips, and your and Xatalos' votes fit into that pattern cause they were placed when Kelsier was already set to be lynched. | ||
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On December 15 2014 07:14 batsnacks wrote: Didn't OWS hammer KSC? I've been operating under that assumption. Someone else said it. 7 to 6 Xata votes, it's 8 to 6 Trfel switches, it's 7 to 7 Obi votes last making 8 to 7 The guy who achieves majority first gets lynched, so Obi voted when Kels was set to get lynched. | ||
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On December 15 2014 07:20 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Except I could've voted Holyflare. So I still hammered. Smd. You're right I didn't consider that. I did consider it for Xata though but he positioned himself in a way that didn't allow him to vote for HF. If I look at your posts pre-deadline though, it looks like you ninja voted KSC? Why not post anything in the thread, you posted some theory about HF being scum with Oats previously. | ||
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On December 15 2014 07:22 rsoultin wrote: Well...technically ritoky was the hammer vote. He was #7. But OWS was right. If Xata hadn't switched, and Trfel still did, without those two the lynch on KSC wouldn't have happened. Viva, you're grasping at straws it seems. I don't care, I'm posting at night, I'm sharing my thoughts, I don't care how wrong I am or how bad they look, anyone who knows my scum play (diplomatic, kinda active D1 and then I become super inactive) knows that this is town me and not scum me, plus I'm going to claim a role of which we know there's only one at day start. Suck it up. | ||
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Speaking of that, I'm the ghost of christmas yet to come, and if rsoultin suggests there can be two of them, I call insanity. On December 12 2014 07:36 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I've decided that LoneMeow is mafia. With the caveat that he might not be. On December 12 2014 07:39 ObiWanShinobi wrote: (But seriously, he's like 100% mafia and should die super hard.) Also looks like our pro vig might have shot the mason. | ||
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On December 15 2014 08:11 sicklucker wrote: Ya sign every power role failed us hard. This confirms dandred died to a present tho and im town. No, Trfel died a town hero and the reason he played so timidly on D1 was that he had a PR. Last game he got shot N1 as a tracker and he seems to have learned his lesson. I kept that thought in the back of my mind but didn't make it public for obvious reasons, which is also why I was reluctant to lynch him when bats asked me to vote for him. However I felt his voteswitch was odd so I wanted to know more about it. | ||
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On December 15 2014 08:40 rsoultin wrote: There are fifteen people left, two claimed ghosts. Your claim which I am starting to really not believe. You are insane. It does town no good to claim. The ghost claims don't change anything for the role. Kush suicided himself like a douchebag, I visited him N1, and so did marley, I'm nothing but a named VT now and claiming helps town find scum. Unless you have the theory that I took a 50/50 chance of getting counterclaimed when only few people really suspect me. Only the last ghost claim will be sketchy cause it's the safest one for scum to make. | ||
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On December 15 2014 08:54 sicklucker wrote: So if obi didnt shoot for whatever reason he screwed us. Like why would he not shoot? I think the only reason is because he was rb which makes ritoky 100% mafia. Can someone more experienced tell me if obi would ever save his shot here? I dont think he would Cause he's likely to have shot the mason and didn't want to cause more damage? That's a version. Can we please go back to focusing on the play rather than the actions? | ||
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On December 13 2014 09:16 batsnacks wrote: Guys I've actually read the thread and all the "reads" I have feel like junk. It is intensely frustrating reading 15 pages of stuff and not a walking away with any fresh insights other than "this guy scum slipped" or "god damn this push makes no sense how are people so passionate about this." On December 13 2014 10:19 batsnacks wrote: I think HF is mafia though On December 13 2014 12:32 batsnacks wrote: Vivax vote Trfel with me? Or maybe rsoultin. He has a stick up his ass this game. He was a lot calmer last game. I've never seen anyone engage me as calmly as he did in Student Mafia and I was out in full force. On December 13 2014 15:36 batsnacks wrote: The FF case is literally just what Lonemeow said and FF possibly being apathetic. I can summarize that in one lame sentence. I am extremely disappointed with how HF and Vivax are voting right now. On December 14 2014 03:25 batsnacks wrote: I voted Holyflare since no one wants to lynch Trfel with me. He is "disappointed" how HF votes FF with me (me being not his scumread, and HF being his scumread), and usually when you think someone is mafia you don't think they make a mistake in voting and feel disappointed about it (cause townies make honest mistakes, mafia don't), but you think they vote like that cause well... they are mafia. He has that feeling and throws both his scumread and me in there. | ||
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On December 15 2014 17:37 Holyflare wrote: I have about gb and ritoky -.- I don't agree with your xatalos case though because like he said he was talking about the lesser of 2 evils for the lynch on me/kelsier and ended up on mafia anyway so there's that. Do think we should lynch oats though. Xatalos townread you quite remarkably IIRC, or at least didn't like your lynch, it would have looked very sketchy if he ended up on you. Since you know your own alignment, assuming you're town, don't you think that batsnacks post displays TMI? I don't know why you said you have a role and today you say you are VT. Just noticed it going through your filter attempting to get an overview of your ritoky/GB stuff. Sorry if I missed the reason, still reading while writing this. It's one of my defects. | ||
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Not sure why you're dismissing that possibility, I'd rather get this issue between the two of you out of the way and look for scum in the more silent places, right now I'm mostly interested into Oats, Templar, bats, Xata, people like these. Not sure about froggy, he just has so few to work with. | ||
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On December 15 2014 18:14 Holyflare wrote: Yes I thought that too but I've seen him tunneled before and it was never to this extent. It's more telling that he admitted his case was wrong/based on things that never happened but almost nobody in the game has pointed that out (apart from rsoul/someone else). Most disappointed in you of all people vivax for sheeping it. Oats is probably mafia for all his defences of these town people and crazy lurking. Really don't like your xata point of defending me because the case was so wrong against me that it needed looking into. Really don't remember anything templar has done since his day 1 santa posts will look at later. Froggy came into the thread and agreed with gb's case and was agreeing with gb despite gb basing a lot of connection being me mafia with froggy. I feel like if he was town he'd immediately jump on this false logic and the case was also bad so kind of biased against anyone that liked it. Been pretty afk most of the game too. This is a really good point actually. Didn't think about that. | ||
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On December 16 2014 12:45 Oatsmaster wrote: I really dont get anyone saying that we shouldnt lynch confirmed mafia. Thats lunacy. Other than that, holyflare and xata are both lame dumbo scum as well as Vivax. There is a reason why nobody is picking up my lynch. This is Oats first contribution since three days, and you really think he has any desire to solve this game? He claims to have caught up but completely ignores my claim. He says I'm scum with Xata and HF when I voted HF over flipped scum D2, and kept posting my concerns on Xatalos and argued about it so much. But we're all scum together?? Like, there's a limit to the insanity a town can show, while this is a case of a scum who doesn't like playing the scum game but pretends he does play the town game. And when Oats has such a bad grasp of the game it's cause he's scum. Vote for this guy. | ||
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For me, Oats is more obvious scum than him. So that's where I'm placing my vote. | ||
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Would lynch HF now cause ritoky hammered flipped scum over him. I think that's decent evidence. I don't see a reason for why he wouldn't vote HF if he were town? Feeling good about eliminating bats from scummers, Xata and Oats are my other probable baddies, now adding HF. | ||
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On December 17 2014 11:02 GlowingBear wrote: I forgot koshi died... With LoneMeow killed by vigi, these were the mafia nightkills: kushm4sta the Scrooge is dead Damdred the Joyful Child is dead Koshi the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead Kitaman27 the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead We already know that there are 3 shots here (2 mafia kp + mass murderer) We have to decide if kush was shot by the mass murderer and that either koshi or kita were shot by the banker or banker missed his shot and kush was killed by Marley. By the way, it seems the first option to me, making LS and Vivax claims (much more LS's, he had no motivation to claim day2) look bad. It also means damdred was shot instead of dying by the present. Which means SL is scum or scum is setting SL up. Anyway, hard to believe scum would try to soft confirm SL thinking that he would be scum later. Which means SL is very likely to be scum. Which leaves to the conclusion that SL, Vivax and LS could be scum together. Considering lian tried to deflect the lynch from both ritoky and HF, I pointing FoS at him. This will be my last post for now, because I've only for five left this night. You forget to consider protective roles, and I'm sorry to disappoint you, but my claim is completely legit, the mass murderer only has 2 bullets he can withhold, and sl's claim is also most likely legit. Basing all your reads on night actions and setup speculation presuming you knew what they were is veeeery bad play. On the other hand you 180 ° on HF knowing that scum preferred voting Kelsier over him (might be that he asked to be bussed while being in hospital cause he couldn't play though, so his buddies could harvest some cred, that's also pretty speculative). Ultimately it's better to focus on the actual plays rather than all this stuff, although given the difficulty in reading HF's plays it might be worth giving it a shot in his case. | ||
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On December 17 2014 10:38 rsoultin wrote: ^So why are we talking about HF now? I asked for your reads. You were going to give us the grand mafia plan. How does ritoky being mass murderer change anything? Was your scumlist contingent on which scum role he pulled? You gave us these and voted HF. You said not ritoky or HF today. You proposed froggynoddy before these four. What's going on with you, GB? And when I say you 180 ° on HF I'm referring to this. Wtf are you doing??? You're so inconsistent, I'm not sure if you're still drunk. | ||
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Templar Froggy Oats GB HF You(?) Hell even Fecalfeast doesn't seem unfeasible even tho he got greenchecked (I revisited the N1 kills, kita, Damdred, Koshi, all of them suspected ritoky, but most also FF, Kita suspected Oats, and froggy was suspicious-y. Can you pick 3 you would lynch and tell me who you'd rather see as scum between HF/GB? Not like you never talked about it but I 'd like to know your present opinion. | ||
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On December 17 2014 18:23 Xatalos wrote: Not that much has changed with ritoky's flip. At least 2 of GB/Oats/Templar are probably scum and then we should look at people like Tube... I've yet to see a good reason for thinking that HF is scum. *Maybe* that vote split argument but it's pretty WIFOM and not based on his own play at all. Any reason for froggy not being an option? He's like the least active of the bunch. | ||
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On December 18 2014 04:55 froggynoddy wrote: So I have been thinking. I think Mafia had to have the remaining presents as it makes no sense for Rit to guess with a 50% chance of being wrong and leavig yourself vulnerable to a counterclaim. I feel like the only logical play for Ritovky was to claim vig-present to hide a mass-murderer shot and confuse town. This must (you'd think) have been vetted by his scum-buddies. This means that scum should have had both presents as otherwise the risk would be too great. So I guess my question is... how does FF have a present as town? On December 18 2014 05:29 froggynoddy wrote: Guys you are completely missunderstanding what I am saying. It makes very little sense for this present to be a bomb. It makes no sense for Ritovky to even have a present as scum (as he has a shot and cannot use two actions I think - need to check the set-up rules). But what does make sense is that they can safely fake claim opening a vigi present. This must mean (unless they play some sort of risky play as described by HF) that they had control or knowledge of all the presents. Unless they only have 1 present left and that they knew that it was a bomb would they pass that present to a town FF. That situation just does not make sense as I don't think that the vig presnet has been opened (unless scum worked out from their KP that one of the N1 shots must have been a present?? UNlikely). Again I think either FF is scum or they are making a really weird attempt of framing FF... ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ On December 17 2014 08:27 batsnacks wrote: This is exactly I don't trust you guys to lynch HF without me. On December 17 2014 08:33 batsnacks wrote: I want everyone who isn't going to vote HF tomorrow to type and post the following: "I believe that at least two members of the mafia team, given the choice between killing town and killing mafia, chose to kill mafia." | ||
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On December 18 2014 13:24 Fecalfeast wrote: There is some crazy WIFOM in those night kills and its hurting my brain The wifom isnt crazy, you either believe they got killed for what they said or cause scum wants us to believe what they said. If you ever played scum you should know it's almost always for the first reason, so not as wifomy as you make it to be. I'm voting HF. | ||
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On December 18 2014 13:39 rsoultin wrote: Well, that answers my question to you, that you didn't bother to answer directly. You may as well have added SL's post as a quote to the bottom of your others. Here's another question for you: Do you always scumhunt by analyzing what nightkills say, and how has that worked out for you if that's the case? You did this on Day 2 as well with FF. At least within this thread, that's a pattern, but I don't know if that's your meta or not. So I'm inclined to think you believe it...even though I'm not completely sure as to why. Do you still believe FF is scum based on the kills from Night 1? The time I got night-killed last game, I was scumreading two townies xP So at least it can be said that nightkills aren't always based on what the player is saying (as well as the fact that I'm not always right). (Also find it very interesting when players start ignoring me when I ask them questions. Is that because you don't know how to respond? Or am I just scary? -growls-) Yes I look at what the NKs said most of the times. It's the one part of the day where you can try to see the game through the eyes of scum. Especially when you can assume it wasn't a bluesnipe. FF has a green check so I'm not lynching him until we lynched all the other amount of scum and know for sure that a godfather didn't flip. As for your questions, I didn't look at them yet. I just looked at the flips, read what the NKs wrote and posted it in the thread, I'm not always fully caught up. But I guess they're answered now? | ||
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Will probably dedicate the day to a stream of thought on this topic. | ||
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There's this part in ritoky's filter where he calls you out on the fluffy posts, and it sounds entirely different from how he handles his next suspect, plus his next suspect ends up among his scumreads and you don't. Plus there's one point where he questions an OWS townread but not a townread on you. Additionally you've been a N1 kill in every game I was in and have bled townie every time from the start. Sorry broski but this is ggnore. | ||
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On December 18 2014 18:11 The_Templar wrote: I'm pretty sure you did exactly the same thing. This post was followed by nearly 0 mention of me, for about 48-60 hours I believe. The only difference is that you quietly listed me on your scum list about 24 hours ago. I've been quietly listing you as scum since D2, you will find me mentioning you previous to that post you quoted, I just mentioned it again in the post you quoted since I believe it was at a point where you talked about something that wasn't really scumhunting, so I saw it, got that feeling, and wrote it down. Besides, I'm talking about flipped scum pretending to suspect you at one point, whereas I intend to follow through with my suspicion and lynch you once we get past HF. | ||
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I don't need convincing on Templar I need convincing on why HF is a worse lynch than him today when we have the evidence that Kelsier was voted over HF, which was the point the NightKill bats kept harping on. | ||
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On December 18 2014 23:31 Xatalos wrote: Yeah I agree. For both of those the scum motivation is strong and the town motivation is non-existent. I like Templar as scum too, though. But at least he hasn't actively pushed scum agenda. ##Vote GlowingBear Well lynching GB before Templar is fucking bonkers and what you just gave is another bad reason for not voting Templar. It gives me the flashbacks of your reasons for reading bunnies either way. I like Templar as scum too, though. But at least he hasn't actively pushed scum agenda. Like, this part is so so so bad it leaves me without words. It just reminded me of all the reasons I had for scumreading you, and it's just a bad justification. First of all, no scum that is in his right mind will push mafia agenda visibly to the thread, this already presumes that you know what mafia agenda is. There's no way for you to discern between a townie giving bad advice and a scum here. Second, if you think both are scum, there's no reason to prefer GB over Templar for what you wrote there, it just reads like a scummy excuse. I have trouble putting it into words properly, but that part I quote just looks SO terrible, and I'm trying to give that feeling a reason. I think it's the fact that you even find Templar worth of being mentioned, being so sure of yourself he isn't pushing mafia agenda when he's simply SCUM, and scum doesn't do anything besides their thing, which is this buzzword mafia agenda. Maybe there are 6 scum actually, or one of Oats and HF is town cause Xata is back into the pile. | ||
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"but at least he hasn't actively pushed mafia agenda", oh come on. | ||
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BAAAAAAD LIIEEEEE | ||
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What I'm questioning is that in the post you just wrote, that particular part looks like And when I saw it, my incorporated lie detector immediately tingled. It's nothing a townie writes, cause townies won't find such a justification to put one lynch ahead of the other. They won't find such an excuse for their own scumread, like, if you think GB is scum and is pushing mafia agenda, WHO CARES. Nobody is following through with what he suggests, you have no motivation to defend Templar by saying he's not pushing mafia agenda, except when you're scum intent on delaying his lynch, or justifying why you prefer GB over him. It's a steaming poopy lie, like the bunnies stuff you wrote D1 when you first defended and then voted her. @ HF Here's a contract if you don't want me to lynch you. I hereby solemnly declare that [ ] My lynch for today will be Templar and only Templar, I will adhere to the case I wrote and not try to squirm out of that lynch. [ ] My lynch for tomorrow will be Xatalos, for he is obvious lying scum. [ ] This is totally not a blackmail. If you don't agree to this contract I will see myself forced to vote for you cause you always disagreed with me on Xatalos and I will be forced to assume that you're protecting him on purpose. | ||
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I'll be voting Templar before GB any day, so either you go for a compromise or you keep your vote on GB leading to less consolidated wagons, proving to have a scummy bias and a particular desire to favour GB over Templar cause Templar is sneakier and GB does the "obvious scummy stuff". Show me how perfectly valid of a lynch he is. Can you change your vote and keep it there without squirming? | ||
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Xata if you were town it would be in your best interest to vote Templar cause he's likely to gain more traction than GB which would also prevent your townread HF from being lynched, and yet now you put it like you have reasons to believe one is more likely scum than the other??? What's giving you the feel that Templar could be town? Nothing, but ... (insert your excuse here) | ||
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On December 19 2014 01:08 Holyflare wrote: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uabxs5rkt237b5q/vivaxhfcontract.docx?dl=0 Vivax, I have formed the required document and I request that you sign it and provide 2 witnesses to also sign said document in your presence. I won't fall for the indemnification part, you vote em or I lynch you | ||
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On December 19 2014 01:18 rsoultin wrote: What is this about vote consolidation over 24 hrs before eod? What is this about criticizing someone for sticking with a read that they feel more sure of? Is everyone in this thread high? If xata sticks with one scumread over another at eod , in a race against someone he is not reading as scum, then you have a case. you guys make no sense to me. i think that lurking players could be scum too. Yay lynch the lurkers. yet ill still try to lynch someone im more certain of first. how is that scummy so long as end game im willing to adjust to try to lynch the most likely scum who has a possibility of being lynched? Why dont you guys try to lynch me for the same thing youre badgering xata about? And everyone is conveniently ignoring xatas point that vivax first argues scum acting like obvious scum then flips and says they never would. i dont even -_- Well for him they should equally be scum but he finds a reason to lynch one scum first. It's not that he thinks Templar has some townie points to him, it's that he says he isn't pushing mafia agenda openly and doesn't have to be lynched so quickly. I have no idea how that doesn't sound like a cheap excuse to you. For me, mafia is mafia. Whether you vote Oats, Templar or Xata (HF I'm least sure on tbh, biggest argument for me is still ritoky voting Kelsier and bats dying from pressing that point) doesn't matter to me. Like, the only reason for me to prefer a scum over the other is when I'm more confident about one guy over the other, and not the way they play in the thread, yet that is Xata's argument. He goes like "Oh well Templar is scum too, but cause he plays more passively I wouldn't lynch him first". | ||
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On December 19 2014 01:33 Half the Sky wrote: SL - read your post top of page 200. - Your third quote from GB - he's using setup here. Anything setup related is entirely speculative. Vivax (I believe it was him) provided an alternative setup to that, so I'm not sure how setup implicates anyone or provides alignment indicative information. I don't think your post is a very strong one when you try and use that. Holyflare, regarding your case page 201. - Generally speaking I didn't like how Templar wasn't participatory and had a weaker scumread on him as of last cycle - The case you have on Templar is very solid altogether, especially using the meta to back it up. Both appear to have different styles of playing scum in the cases illustrated, and I would think not all scum are going play the same way on a single scum team. I made that point in Student Mafia IV that it was more unlikely that all scummers would play the same way, with two of them out of the way in this game, it is a reasonable assumption here assuming 3 remain. I could vote for either GB or Templar based on what has been presented. (Sidenotes: HF - 10/10 on the contract lol Vivax - did you really have to post that visual on page 203? ugh) Can you give me a brief summary in own words of why you think that GB is scum? On December 19 2014 01:38 Holyflare wrote: you bad at law bro, the indemnification part is so you can't do anything to me after the contract has ended or claim for things that arose out of the contract Yeah it's a pain to read -.-' On December 19 2014 01:55 Xatalos wrote: While we're at it, Vivax, why is YOUR vote on your "weakest scumread"? Oh come on dude. Are you serious? I'm discussing with you to get onto Templar, next thing you do is point out the next best thing you can call an inconsistency On December 19 2014 01:55 Xatalos wrote: While we're at it, Vivax, why is YOUR vote on your "weakest scumread"? Oh come on dude. Are you serious? I'm discussing with you to get onto Templar, next thing you do is point out the next best thing you can call an inconsistency. Ok, serious face. Why is my vote on HF? Cause I voted for him before. Does it matter it's still there when I'm talking about switching to Templar? Your guess? Or did you think I'd keep my vote on HF until EoD after asking you to switch your vote to Templar and that I want a consolidated wagon on him and you could help at that cause. On December 19 2014 01:54 Xatalos wrote: Ugh.... It feels like you make less and less sense each day. It's not like I have a huge preference between them. Let me ask you a question: there are players A and B, both of whom look like scum. You think A has done more scummy things and should have slight preference. However, you're willing to lynch both of them. Now why would you put down your vote on B first? You can just consolidate on B later if needed. You didn't say you found GB scummier you said "GB is pushing scum agenda in the thread while Templar isn't". | ||
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On December 19 2014 02:55 Xatalos wrote: Well, I guess it's hard to top Kush in being anti-town... Still GB has systematically done similarly big favors for scum if he was town. It's just very hard to believe. In Kush's case it's still somewhat believable since he went full crazy but GB has at least made an effort not to look *that* bad. Can you be more specific? Why is GB a better lynch than Templar? Why has GB done big favors for scum? | ||
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On December 19 2014 03:08 Xatalos wrote: 1) Role fishing (although not very successful, he has at least reinforced the opinion that there's a merit to claiming roles and perhaps led to some of the role claims so far - which is very useful for the scumteam for several reasons such as aiming NK's and deciding future plans) 2) He's repeatedly attacked HF's credibility for bad reasons and made him into a recurring lynch candidate, even though he's probably just town with some time/post restraints... And then he advocated not shooting HF at night when it could have possibly resolved his long-time tunnel. But it looks like it'd be nicer for him to be able to continue that tunnel. And of course that'd be nice for the whole scumteam as well. (this is assuming that HF is town, but there's also the weirder scenario where they're both scum and GB's goal has been to bring down HF's credibility so that it's not weird for him to live so long... lol) Maybe he genuinely thinks that a massclaim can solve the game, I don't see how that's necessarily a scum point. Attacking HF's credibility..Well, until we know what HF is for sure we can only speculate about the motivation. GB might actually have done all that as town, and HF maybe is town too! I fail to see how these reasons make you more confident into GB when HF just posted way more about Templar than what you are listing here about GB. For the case that this isn't everything you find GB scummy for, why not post all at once if you want him lynched? That would be a display of passive play from your side. | ||
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On December 19 2014 10:54 Half the Sky wrote: Just backtracked to Vivax's use of nightkills. Operative parts in bold. This is looking contradictory...unless he's justifying the fact looking at HF as the reason to look at nightkills. There's a difference between me analysing what the dead guys said and GB claiming to know what scum's exact actions at night were to prove a point, which that first post is about and you would know if you read in context. | ||
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On December 19 2014 18:36 sicklucker wrote: Mafia might be dividing on the gb/templar vote to switch and save hf her. Like this is a horrible idea why cant we just lynch hf? Like the templar was a great lynch for me before but not so much since hf,oats and ff are the first 3 votes and pushing this. Vivax/ slam why are you sheeping your scum reads wtf? God I wanted to sleep in but I dont trust you guy. I'm just doing this so HF's gf can yell some more at him. | ||
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On December 13 2014 05:28 GlowingBear wrote: [/u]Lol what kind of info? Lololol Ok, listen: The only important point regarding presents is that ritoky claimed he got one, which is more detrimental than helpful, because, in case he don't die night1, he dies/get roleblocked night2, which is awful for town. But if you think of it again, there is no motive for him to claim that he is opening the present as mafia. I just used my brain a little more and got to this conclusion. Which means that talking about presents is only helpful when considering mass claiming. We should drop this discussion right now. HF doesn't look like he is pushin town agenda, but his own self agenda. This looks much more like mafia holyflare. He points out things that aren't really mafiaish and doesn't seem to try to further identify people's alignment. His pushes aren't for solving the game. They are mostly done just to push, just to make a lynch happen, maybe. His backtracking on froggy is weird because he kept an absolute stance regarding bunnies, who I just say sounded more null than anything, and froggy is leaning scum. HF once came to the thread and said that we should look for people outside the NB wagon, which is ridiculous. He wasn't talking about people who WASTED their votes. He was talking about people outside the main wagon. He also said me and ritoky looked the worst. You can see he is doing a timid push on ritoky, but it really doesn't sound like he is trying to figure out his alignment. Weirdly enough, the present claim from ritoky remained unquestioned by HF. MOREOVER, he did not make ANY attempt to figure out my alignment when he said I looked bad at that time. He is scum. [b] On December 12 2014 22:10 GlowingBear wrote: I want to read more of the thread before making a case on HF, but a lot of his reasoning is off. The lack of push on ritoky's present claim, the multiple scumreads of wagons outside the 27nb wagon and the 27nb mislynch is all playing against him. His entrance in this game is awful, he picking on bunnies for being contradictory when picking up on frogs awful entrance but not picking on Vivax post on frog... This kind of double standards worries me. After saying that ritoky's present claim isn't a thing mafia does, GB reprimands HF for not pushing ritoky for his present claim. Not only is this inconsistent with what he said, but it also suggests TMI. | ||
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On December 19 2014 20:29 sicklucker wrote: Like ill totally look at gb later his game has def been off. Like the reason im town reading him mainly is because some of my points I got from him and there REALLY GOOD. Maybe he just gave me to much info if you know what I mean. Either way we learn alot about him with an hf flip You could also learn about HF with a GB flip yet you arbitrarily choose HF first. Look at the the interactions between them and flipped scum and come back with the insight that GB looks worse off it. The time he starts pushing HF is at some point after votes ritoky. | ||
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On December 19 2014 20:45 Holyflare wrote: Vivax breaking dat contract :O :O :O! can you explain that to the lazy? (me) Well as I said GB went nuts on you after you voted ritoky. He first mildly suspects him for claiming the present, then says he can't figure out the town motivation, then accuses you of not pushing ritoky for claiming the present, then says the claim is unlikely to come from mafia. Later it's his drunk gibberish and the push on you. When he accuses you of not pushing ritoky for the claim but ignoring everything else and calling it a timid push from you it read to me like TMI cause it's like he should have been scumreading him himself but actually didn't. You openly suspected both Kelsier and ritoky from D1 on and at some point you argue about something with one of them, that didn't look much like scum-scum to me. @sl Can switch back to Templar np. I feel differently strong about my suspects depending on what I recently read that irked me ^^. | ||
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On December 19 2014 21:04 Holyflare wrote: yes anyone can just read like page 4 of my filter and it's pretty fucking obvious i'm not mafia Well I don't think it's that easy since you're pretty good scum as I had the chance to witness multiple times, like that time you hardbussed your teammate D1 and skated easily into victory, or the time you smurfed and you claimed that you had an accident ^^ And yes it's probably suboptimal play that I'm all over the place but that's just me following my feelings and not being as methodical as I probably should. Going back to Templaaaaaaar. | ||
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I didn't even read it lol, Templar is an easy gut-read at this point and before, based on my previous games with him. Sorry HF I don't think I will ever feel confident enough to call you town after my past experiences, there are these interactions with scum that suggest townie but I fully trust you'd have the means of planting them on purpose. | ||
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I'm currently in my bed staring at the D2 end votecount and I'm 100 % sure that the solution is in there. I know for sure that FF was the scum wagon of choice initially, and they dissipated later along with the wagon and moved onto HF and/or Kelsier. From an information point of view it would actually be better to lynch HF cause it would give us a lot of information about the D2 votecount. | ||
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Preferred order is this Templar>HF>GB. If you're on GB: Remember that bats got night killed when he kept pressing on to lynch HF cause ritoky "saved" him. | ||
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On December 20 2014 08:23 Palmar wrote: templar: 5 - sicklucker, oatsmaster, alakaslam, holyflare, vivax holyflare: 4 - fecalfeast, tubesock, glowingbear, liancourt tubesock: 5 - lightningstrike, xatalos, templar, rsoultin, half the sky This is my final votecount. Seeing as tubesock was the first person to reach 5 votes between the two (templar was at 4 until sicklucker's last counted vote), the lynch is: Tubesock I'll be a dick now and say: Fuck you guys. It had to be one of Templar or HF AND NOONE ELSE and if you don't see this you're either amazingly stupid or scum. | ||
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Templarscum is still alive. Literally I would lynch down that wagon on tubesock out of spite cause it's just that awful. When I saw the lynch outcome I didn't want to win this game anymore. | ||
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You children murderer. | ||
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On December 20 2014 17:57 sicklucker wrote: I never said ff was a likely mafia like ever? I just said it was possible he was the non green check role. Ya I thought templar is total scum and he still probably is. But because you pushed him I want to lynch him after the two other obvious mafia for obvious reasons. Hts is my top mafia read now I would say its strongly meta. In her first campus game where we were town leaders we won the game together basically. There she was a tryhard here she barely posted and here its only when its convient for mafia like that tubesock lynch. Her filter is like 1/10th of her game as town. Shes afraid to interact with me and never responds. The list just goes on and on. Ill push her tomorrow were like in triple lylo so the order wont matter anymore im going for my most highest percent chance first. Can you tell me why shes town if you dont agree? Similar to my templar read. In fact HTS mafia would fit considering she was part of the counterwagon force with Templar and Xata who has a sitck up his bum and kept posting nonsense reasons for his voteswitches and preferences throughout the game. | ||
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On December 20 2014 09:39 rsoultin wrote: lol not technically HF 8:4 - 2 NKs 8:3 - scumlynch 5:3 - 2 NKs 5:2 - scumlynch 3:2 - 2 NKs 3:1 - scumlynch 2:1 - 1 NK yolo?? but yeah...can't afford another mislynch >< Like HOW CAN YOU BE AWARE OF THIS AND VOTE TUBE. WHAT A DAMN THROW. Been lynching scum all day except D1 and then there's this shit. D3 when I'm not around at EoD scum sneaks in a mislynch thanks to 2 noobs. Lynch Xata/Templar/HTS and if we don't win it's thanks to this day. Xata'ss voteswitches being legendary shitty scummy voteswitches AGAIN. | ||
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On December 20 2014 22:52 Oatsmaster wrote: slam is super useless man. Way more useful than the standard I'm used to, Slam is doing well this game and I don't get the feeling he simply piles up on mislynches. Quite the opposite for you. Wasted votes, bad thread overview, weird scumreads, including me. Low thread presence. But that wagon on tubesock must have been fueled by all the scummers and if it wasn't town deserves to lose. Killing either Templar or HF would have told us a fuckton about the D2 votecount (for example, if Templar flipped town we would know that no scum was on HF and he's thus scum, if Templar was scum we'd have known that HF most likely is town) and instead an IC gets lynched that gives us no information at all. | ||
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On the other hand I have no clue why Templar played town so differently from how I'm used to. | ||
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