LoneMeow the Carol Singer is dead kushm4sta the Scrooge is dead Damdred the Joyful Child is dead Koshi the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead Kitaman27 the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead
It is now Day 2. Night comes in . Good Luck
Lonemeow: killed by mafia Kush: visited by Marley Koshi: killed by mafia Kita: killed by mafia (3kp already) Damdred: ?
Do you think there are 4 mafia kp dude? Seriously?
I think our Arnold killed Kush.
Still mafia with 4kp, if you consider damdred killed by mafia. And this is too considering that there is a mass murderer.
TUBESOCK IS TOWN VOTE HF WITH ME THIS IS GOING TO BE A MISLYNCH
TUBESOCK CLEARLY FITS THE PARANOID TOWNIE PERSPECTIVE HE ISN'T EVEN TRYING TO DEFEND HIMSELF, BUT PUSHING AN IMPOSSIBLE LYNCH. HE ISN'T TRYING TO DEFLECT TOWN TO THE SECOND WAGON.
VOTECOUNT CLEARLY SHOWS WASTED VOTES WHICH REINFORCES THE SCENARIO OF A MISLYNCH
On December 14 2014 05:05 Tubesock wrote: I will never claim. I am plain vanilla town. If you think this is some claim ploy we will lose. This is LOGIC. Now I just need to help you see it.
On December 14 2014 04:46 Tubesock wrote: First, I don't expect anyone to really dig into what I saw until we lose a few more towns and have 0 mafia kills.
I do absolutely think I can be wrong. This is why I'm hoping and asking for help, if people don't see what I see and have asked many times, then it's not right. But, my reads have slightly changed. I'm replacing GB, in my published 4 (temp, kel, sick and GB) and my 5th changed and found my 6th. But before I say, I think I need people to try more to see from my eyes. When they do, they will understand more.
It's just like my interaction with Slam. He had no interest in me. I showed him I had something he wanted. Unfortunately, he (and the rest of you) thought I personally attacked him. I did not. I was seeing if we saw eye to eye. Now, I think he sees that I wasn't at all insulting him. Not one bit.
Specifically, aviation isn't like professional sports, the best pilots are not necessarily the best pilots. Amateurs and professionals are equal. We are all pilots. I think Slam would agree.
So, I need to figure out how to convey my thoughts on who I think are mafia. Unless I do that, then no matter what I say will be useless. Absolutely useless.
except I think Dick Bong (unfortunate name on the Internet, pot smokers and references -_-) is the best- he equaled the Red Baron in a more advanced theatre of flight
Tube sock I am two dozen. I was 3 when you joined AOPA.
I am an idiot talk about the best thing all you like.
I'm never being mislynched in this game, tube. People can call me scum for whatever they want, I've contributed a lot when I posted serious posts. Any good player can see I'm likely to be town or at least null.
I'LL MAKE THE FUCKING FULL CASE GODDAMN YOU GUYS. Geez.
On December 11 2014 12:33 Holyflare wrote: you're literally saying right here in the thread that the fact that I updated my read with my own tidbits + what other people had said makes me mafia? ahahahaha how many posts do you think bunnies made in that time frame? 1000? how many posts do I have to spend in a post limited game explaining things that other people are saying + adding my own things on? also the stuff that I said kita mentioned I fleshed out more in that post so it was actually my original thoughts and not just the bolded which you seem to imply it is
also, her points on kelsier were crap, the fact that I'm starting to scum read him now is totally irrelevant to her case being crap at all because it purely involves her flipping town and the stuff he said previous to her flipping
I find it hard to believe you could believe anything you are typing at all.
she made 3 pages worth of posts, actually, so yes she made quite a few. I believe that's over 40 posts to respond to, so your exaggerating and laughing, but actually you're just lying and implying she didn't post a lot or a lot of substance. if she is your top scum read, 3 posts to push and develop your read seems shallow at best; especially with your standards. hell you devoted the same or more posts in the same time frame to reading vivax, kels, and xat; who you didn't push on at all. and i disagree that any of what you said regarding kita's stuff is original, it is all sheep.
further as town you are one of the largest proponents of using your vote as a means of pressuring people into giving information, and you felt perfectly fine leaving it on a town. like you're just plain mafia.
So you're saying that even though I spent 2-3 pages of filter PREVIOUSLY talking about bunnies all game the fact that I only spent a few long posts on her LATER when she had only posted like a page or less since I left with a lot of fluff in it makes me mafia? Why are you using the the latter half of the game to justify a read on me that should span the whole game? Have you even bothered to check the timestamps of when I've been around, I was sick all day and literally posted as much as I could on as many people I could in the time frame that I've been here (without trying to devolve into spammyness)
I can't believe you'd ever make this read as town. Ever. It literally shows no progression of thought process at all and is a rough job of a case that is based on falsities twisted to fit your narrative. There is no way on this planet that a town ritoky would make this case. Just like the case you made on LS using exclusively meta reads. None of these things you are saying make anyone scum yet you're pushing them so vehemently that it's making YOU look scummy instead.
On December 11 2014 12:43 LightningStrike wrote: Okay Oatsmaster I got a Null read on him due to him not as much as he did on his town games but I guess the limit on the post number on each persons filter making try to conserve his posts a lot more than normal he did have some nice questions but he also made a weird call on Vivax being scum so idk what the true nature of his read on him is. KSC I got him scum right now since most of his posts were more fluff than anything and he didn't ask good questions except once towards me but he also had a I told you so attitude on the lynch of 27ninja before the lynch which one of the scum members in the Campus Mafia game said about me when I was getting lynched kind of tells me he is scum at this point.
I dunno about oats anymore. My point on him was made kinda moot by xata so he's really just a ?. Don't like his wasted vote on vivax after saying he looked towny at all though. In fact there were a LOT of wasted votes.
gonna check out all of those filters at some point to see their views on bunnies and why they weren't on her/what they were doing, kinda bad to still be on xata after he kinda adequately explained every accusation against him tbh and those rogue 1 and 2 voters that are on targets that were barely ever pushed at all (gb, froggy, hts) look terrible
A good way to catch mafia is looking at who wasted their votes on the final votecount of a day. This looks like an attempt to do that. But, you see, he oddly points out EVERY other person outside the main wagon, which is NOT a reasonable thing, specially when we are talking about such strong player as Holyflare.
Following his logic, me, frog and hts looks terrible. This is him stablishing the town agenda. In fact, our wasted votes looks terrible. Reminder: he didn't like froggynoddy's entrance either.
But look at how inconsistent is his play: he stablishes town agenda, but pushes his own agenda (pushing ritoky). He does NOTHING to see these 3 people's alignment. He is NOT interested in these 3 people's alignment. He is just interested to look like an aggressive townie pushing ritoky, but he is actually not trying to solve the game. He is not trying to discover ritoky's alignment. He is just pushing for the sake of pushing someone.
Why this comes from a mafia?: Mafia tends to look contributive but lacks the town intention for solving the game. He simply displays 3 names people should take a look at but does not go after those names. He is disinterested in solving the game, to discover people's alignment. That's not a townie. A townie would go against those 3 names he spoke of. He just posted this analysis because he wants to look contributive.
Town read on froggynoddy
When I noticed these patterns, I inquired him for reads on froggynoddy and Vivax. This is his response:
On December 12 2014 10:08 GlowingBear wrote: Holyflare
Your reads on froggynoddy and vivax, please.
I have no idea how this is relevant in the slightest when I've made it pretty clear who i think mafia are. Either way, froggy is a kindaaaa towny/i dunno read. He writes quite long posts to say not much but I dunno how to explain that I don't want to lynch him other than saying his posts look innocent enough and to the point. He also wanted people to talk to him about his templar read that he's been pushing around the deadline which was cool and I kinda regret not talking to him more, he also said something around the bunnies lynch which i forget that made it seem like he was actually thinking about the game. I wouldn't say it's particularly difficult stuff to post as mafia but it seems pretty genuine to me.
Vivax has been pushing people that I agree look scummy (- xatalos) but his reasons for doing it look like he's putting in the effort to find out inconsistencies. After a few games where we've been wrong on each other I think we've just resorted to ignoring the other and are just gonna base it on overall play. Well I am anyway. Not really bothered to elaborate further.
You see, he was scumreading froggy noddy, said he looked terrible by his wasted vote, BUT CALLS HIM TOWN WHEN ASKED FOR A READ. This is someone who is NOT consistent with his reads. This is someone who gives fabricated reads and forgets them, or someone who doesn't want to scumread a possible partner. I know for a fact that Holyflare does this a lot. He scumreads a partner to further townread him. Remember: HE HAD NO ATTEMPT TO DISCOVER FROGGY'S ALIGNMENT. He started having this townread on him out of nothing, which is completely scummy. I'm sure you can understand mafia motivation behind it.
Scumread on me
This is hilarious. I want you to check these two posts regarding me, from the most recent to the oldest:
On December 13 2014 08:29 Holyflare wrote: I can only assume someone pushing so much false information is mafia. Much like ritoky who even when presented with multiple pieces of evidence to show that his meta was wrong continued to push his scum read on me. Not to mention his initial contradictory stance on how he has a super solid meta read on me but was fooled last game even though he said that meta read existed then too. Glad to see absolutely nobody in this game is paying attention to that.
On December 10 2014 00:11 Holyflare wrote: 2 people haven't posted in this game at all yet, useful -.-
Oats, your post on vivax is wrong and your post refuting that wasn't in any english I could understand.
Ls looks not bad to me, dunno why people are hating on him giving all the meta when loads of other people do the same. Ritoky seems angry for some reason because of this??
Obi still being useless, just because he was useless last game (russian) as town doesn't stop him being able to be useless this game as mafia. It just means he's useless which increases the odds of him being mafia.
Kush.. Meh will resolve itself i think
Gb hasn't really done anything but hasn't done anything outrageously wrong like I'd expect him to as town but his picking on solely koshi and like nothing else is wearing thin and is pretty scummy
I dunno feel kinda iffy about hts after reading the things about kush feels a bit too flippant
New list oats, obi, (gb?) bunnies Mehhhhbe/mehhhhbe not: hts, kush
HAHAHA HE SAYS IT'S A TOWN TRAIT FOR ME FOR BEING OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG, BUT WHEN HE THINKS I'M OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG THE SCUMREADS ME. This is the most inconsistent thing I have ever seen. He didn't scumread me because I acted scummy. He scumread me because he felt I was getting close to him. He is trying to discredit me and to survive, and not to figure out my alignment. Town perspective would be evaluate my action and figure out my alignment for something he already knows about my gameplay. Mafia perspective is "I'm getting caught, I have to make this guy look bad"
On December 09 2014 08:16 Holyflare wrote: Here's how it's going to roll. This game has a cap on posts so if you start the game with usual joke crap and useless things like rng that you don't follow through with then I'm going to deem you irresponsible and not worthy of being listened to this game. I've rolled town, I'm going to save my posts instead of being usual and chatty and just come up with my usual list of who to lynch and who to never lynch so that when I get nk'd you can just follow it.
Get rekt mafia
His entrance is bad. He says obvious things like saving posts because of post cap (which is a big cap, by the way, you can waste some posts). He then says he will ignore people that wastes posts. The problem is: he calls Templar out for the RNG thing but does not take any stance regarding it. He is also okay to ignore a thing that in a game with post cap could be considered a scum trait. Then he says the obvious thing about not wasting posts. This means (A) his entrance is a waste of post itself for not taking any stance and saying the obvious, (B) he is okay to ignore scum traits. Why this comes from a mafia: this is just a post to try looking contributive while being noncomittal and fluffy. This is also a pre-excuse to overlook any scummy people who are wasting their posts.
On December 09 2014 08:20 froggynoddy wrote: Gogogo.
RNG sounds pretty silly. Though at least it would create some content and stop people from lurking.
On the subject of lurking. having not played in a while... when I did play, town usually spent Day 1 arguing on whether to lynch lurkers, I assume this is still the case. I have to go to bed now (work in the morning) but pre-empting this topic lets just cut to the chase and all agree nicely that policy lynching is stupid, however in the absence of a decent slip to go on, lurkers are the best of bad lynch options.
This entrance is bad because mafia tends to have a hard time to introduce themselves into the game. They will try to sound serious, to sound committal, so they look like they're town. Under this perspective:
"Gogogo" is completely forced. Lynching lurkers wasn't being a trend in the topic but he says that policy lynchings are stupid and we shouldn't discuss it. The thread wasn't discussing. So, unnecessary to bring this up. By saying that we shouldn't discuss it, he starts a discussion towards it. But that's not the only problem. In the end of his sentence he ASSUMES it is ok to go against lurkers LOLOLOLOL. Why this comes from mafia? As I've already said, mafia will try to look contributive, so this is just him trying look townie by saying something very easy to say as mafia. Worse, he then contradicts himself saying that it is okay to lynch lurkers under the lack of good target, which makes his policy-talking shit a waste of post. It is also a pre-excuse if he chooses to lynch lurkers later in the day, so he won't take responsibility for it
On December 09 2014 08:20 froggynoddy wrote: Gogogo.
RNG sounds pretty silly. Though at least it would create some content and stop people from lurking.
On the subject of lurking. having not played in a while... when I did play, town usually spent Day 1 arguing on whether to lynch lurkers, I assume this is still the case. I have to go to bed now (work in the morning) but pre-empting this topic lets just cut to the chase and all agree nicely that policy lynching is stupid, however in the absence of a decent slip to go on, lurkers are the best of bad lynch options.
So what you're saying is policy lynches are terrible but if it all goes sour you want to policy lynch??
So he also thinks this post is bad.
Bunnies and Vivax, however, have different opinions:
On December 09 2014 08:32 27ninjabunnies wrote: @ Slam @ Damdred
Didn't HF basically do just the same thing? Except more of he came into the thread with "Omgerd we have cap posts. Im town, follow me later" and then leaves.
And yet, Damdred, you have him as town for basically a shit post?
While I agree, people talking about policy lynching and lurkers seem off, he seems just an easy target for people to scum read because of that.
On December 09 2014 08:35 Vivax wrote: What froggy said is simple common sense but also something that never matters cause at the end of the day it's mostly some scummy looking person getting lynched.
I don't see it as scummy, just as something useless to talk about which isn't scummy at this stage of the game. The biggest accusation you could make is that he's so serious in a setting where people are kinda joking, but that's not enough to go with in my book. It's more like he's annoyed that people are discussing policies when in past games it always led to that statement of his making the most sense.
Null for me.
Notice that the basis of their argument is similar: it's a very easy target for scum.
Then Holyflare comes with this very opportunistic post:
On December 09 2014 08:32 27ninjabunnies wrote: @ Slam @ Damdred
Didn't HF basically do just the same thing? Except more of he came into the thread with "Omgerd we have cap posts. Im town, follow me later" and then leaves.
And yet, Damdred, you have him as town for basically a shit post?
While I agree, people talking about policy lynching and lurkers seem off, he seems just an easy target for people to scum read because of that.
I'm still here and haven't made an excuse about leaving? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying in bold at all though. It's one thing to talk about policy but this is showing that first and foremost you did not read his post because:
A) he wrote about not policy lynching lirkers because it's bad
And
B) he wrote about agreeing to policy lynch lurkers
And secondly you are defending a person that "is an easy target to be scum read" when that person has done genuinely scummy things and you are brushing it off
##vote 27ninjabunnies
Enjoy your date
Why this comes from a mafia
See, why does Holyflare doesn't attack Vivax for using the same argument? Why does he completely ignore Vivax and goes shit aggressive against bunnies? Why doesn't he even do that against froggy, the contradictory one?
Because bunnies will turn into an easy lynch and the others may be (I SAID MAY BE) his scum partners. Holyflare even ended lynching bunnies. Then says that people outside the NB wagon are scummy, including froggy. But he makes NO ATTEMPT to discover his alignment. He is just pushing his own agenda, without even considering solving the game. He just says someone is scum and pushes it.
Putting it in a simpler way: he says what town agenda is (looking to the wasted votes), but goes against his own agenda (pushing ritoky in a timid way)
On December 11 2014 12:33 Holyflare wrote: you're literally saying right here in the thread that the fact that I updated my read with my own tidbits + what other people had said makes me mafia? ahahahaha how many posts do you think bunnies made in that time frame? 1000? how many posts do I have to spend in a post limited game explaining things that other people are saying + adding my own things on? also the stuff that I said kita mentioned I fleshed out more in that post so it was actually my original thoughts and not just the bolded which you seem to imply it is
also, her points on kelsier were crap, the fact that I'm starting to scum read him now is totally irrelevant to her case being crap at all because it purely involves her flipping town and the stuff he said previous to her flipping
I find it hard to believe you could believe anything you are typing at all.
she made 3 pages worth of posts, actually, so yes she made quite a few. I believe that's over 40 posts to respond to, so your exaggerating and laughing, but actually you're just lying and implying she didn't post a lot or a lot of substance. if she is your top scum read, 3 posts to push and develop your read seems shallow at best; especially with your standards. hell you devoted the same or more posts in the same time frame to reading vivax, kels, and xat; who you didn't push on at all. and i disagree that any of what you said regarding kita's stuff is original, it is all sheep.
further as town you are one of the largest proponents of using your vote as a means of pressuring people into giving information, and you felt perfectly fine leaving it on a town. like you're just plain mafia.
So you're saying that even though I spent 2-3 pages of filter PREVIOUSLY talking about bunnies all game the fact that I only spent a few long posts on her LATER when she had only posted like a page or less since I left with a lot of fluff in it makes me mafia? Why are you using the the latter half of the game to justify a read on me that should span the whole game? Have you even bothered to check the timestamps of when I've been around, I was sick all day and literally posted as much as I could on as many people I could in the time frame that I've been here (without trying to devolve into spammyness)
I can't believe you'd ever make this read as town. Ever. It literally shows no progression of thought process at all and is a rough job of a case that is based on falsities twisted to fit your narrative. There is no way on this planet that a town ritoky would make this case. Just like the case you made on LS using exclusively meta reads. None of these things you are saying make anyone scum yet you're pushing them so vehemently that it's making YOU look scummy instead.
On December 11 2014 12:43 LightningStrike wrote: Okay Oatsmaster I got a Null read on him due to him not as much as he did on his town games but I guess the limit on the post number on each persons filter making try to conserve his posts a lot more than normal he did have some nice questions but he also made a weird call on Vivax being scum so idk what the true nature of his read on him is. KSC I got him scum right now since most of his posts were more fluff than anything and he didn't ask good questions except once towards me but he also had a I told you so attitude on the lynch of 27ninja before the lynch which one of the scum members in the Campus Mafia game said about me when I was getting lynched kind of tells me he is scum at this point.
I dunno about oats anymore. My point on him was made kinda moot by xata so he's really just a ?. Don't like his wasted vote on vivax after saying he looked towny at all though. In fact there were a LOT of wasted votes.
gonna check out all of those filters at some point to see their views on bunnies and why they weren't on her/what they were doing, kinda bad to still be on xata after he kinda adequately explained every accusation against him tbh and those rogue 1 and 2 voters that are on targets that were barely ever pushed at all (gb, froggy, hts) look terrible
A good way to catch mafia is looking at who wasted their votes on the final votecount of a day. This looks like an attempt to do that. But, you see, he oddly points out EVERY other person outside the main wagon, which is NOT a reasonable thing, specially when we are talking about such strong player as Holyflare.
Following his logic, me, frog and hts looks terrible. This is him stablishing the town agenda. In fact, our wasted votes looks terrible. Reminder: he didn't like froggynoddy's entrance either.
But look at how inconsistent is his play: he stablishes town agenda, but pushes his own agenda (pushing ritoky). He does NOTHING to see these 3 people's alignment. He is NOT interested in these 3 people's alignment. He is just interested to look like an aggressive townie pushing ritoky, but he is actually not trying to solve the game. He is not trying to discover ritoky's alignment. He is just pushing for the sake of pushing someone.
Why this comes from a mafia?: Mafia tends to look contributive but lacks the town intention for solving the game. He simply displays 3 names people should take a look at but does not go after those names. He is disinterested in solving the game, to discover people's alignment. That's not a townie. A townie would go against those 3 names he spoke of. He just posted this analysis because he wants to look contributive.
On December 12 2014 10:08 GlowingBear wrote: Holyflare
Your reads on froggynoddy and vivax, please.
I have no idea how this is relevant in the slightest when I've made it pretty clear who i think mafia are. Either way, froggy is a kindaaaa towny/i dunno read. He writes quite long posts to say not much but I dunno how to explain that I don't want to lynch him other than saying his posts look innocent enough and to the point. He also wanted people to talk to him about his templar read that he's been pushing around the deadline which was cool and I kinda regret not talking to him more, he also said something around the bunnies lynch which i forget that made it seem like he was actually thinking about the game. I wouldn't say it's particularly difficult stuff to post as mafia but it seems pretty genuine to me.
Vivax has been pushing people that I agree look scummy (- xatalos) but his reasons for doing it look like he's putting in the effort to find out inconsistencies. After a few games where we've been wrong on each other I think we've just resorted to ignoring the other and are just gonna base it on overall play. Well I am anyway. Not really bothered to elaborate further.
You see, he was scumreading froggy noddy, said he looked terrible by his wasted vote, BUT CALLS HIM TOWN WHEN ASKED FOR A READ. This is someone who is NOT consistent with his reads. This is someone who gives fabricated reads and forgets them, or someone who doesn't want to scumread a possible partner. I know for a fact that Holyflare does this a lot. He scumreads a partner to further townread him. Remember: HE HAD NO ATTEMPT TO DISCOVER FROGGY'S ALIGNMENT. He started having this townread on him out of nothing, which is completely scummy. I'm sure you can understand mafia motivation behind it.
On December 13 2014 08:29 Holyflare wrote: I can only assume someone pushing so much false information is mafia. Much like ritoky who even when presented with multiple pieces of evidence to show that his meta was wrong continued to push his scum read on me. Not to mention his initial contradictory stance on how he has a super solid meta read on me but was fooled last game even though he said that meta read existed then too. Glad to see absolutely nobody in this game is paying attention to that.
On December 10 2014 00:11 Holyflare wrote: 2 people haven't posted in this game at all yet, useful -.-
Oats, your post on vivax is wrong and your post refuting that wasn't in any english I could understand.
Ls looks not bad to me, dunno why people are hating on him giving all the meta when loads of other people do the same. Ritoky seems angry for some reason because of this??
Obi still being useless, just because he was useless last game (russian) as town doesn't stop him being able to be useless this game as mafia. It just means he's useless which increases the odds of him being mafia.
Kush.. Meh will resolve itself i think
Gb hasn't really done anything but hasn't done anything outrageously wrong like I'd expect him to as town but his picking on solely koshi and like nothing else is wearing thin and is pretty scummy
I dunno feel kinda iffy about hts after reading the things about kush feels a bit too flippant
New list oats, obi, (gb?) bunnies Mehhhhbe/mehhhhbe not: hts, kush
HAHAHA HE SAYS IT'S A TOWN TRAIT FOR ME FOR BEING OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG, BUT WHEN HE THINKS I'M OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG THE SCUMREADS ME. This is the most inconsistent thing I have ever seen. He didn't scumread me because I acted scummy. He scumread me because he felt I was getting close to him. He is trying to discredit me and to survive, and not to figure out my alignment. Town perspective would be evaluate my action and figure out my alignment for something he already knows about my gameplay. Mafia perspective is "I'm getting caught, I have to make this guy look bad"
##VOTE: HOLYFLARE RIGHT NOW!!!!
Full case with added spoilers on some quotations to make it more readable
On December 14 2014 05:49 GlowingBear wrote: PART 2
Odd final count analysis and lack of push on town agenda
On December 11 2014 13:08 Holyflare wrote:
On December 11 2014 12:41 ritoky wrote:
On December 11 2014 12:33 Holyflare wrote: you're literally saying right here in the thread that the fact that I updated my read with my own tidbits + what other people had said makes me mafia? ahahahaha how many posts do you think bunnies made in that time frame? 1000? how many posts do I have to spend in a post limited game explaining things that other people are saying + adding my own things on? also the stuff that I said kita mentioned I fleshed out more in that post so it was actually my original thoughts and not just the bolded which you seem to imply it is
also, her points on kelsier were crap, the fact that I'm starting to scum read him now is totally irrelevant to her case being crap at all because it purely involves her flipping town and the stuff he said previous to her flipping
I find it hard to believe you could believe anything you are typing at all.
she made 3 pages worth of posts, actually, so yes she made quite a few. I believe that's over 40 posts to respond to, so your exaggerating and laughing, but actually you're just lying and implying she didn't post a lot or a lot of substance. if she is your top scum read, 3 posts to push and develop your read seems shallow at best; especially with your standards. hell you devoted the same or more posts in the same time frame to reading vivax, kels, and xat; who you didn't push on at all. and i disagree that any of what you said regarding kita's stuff is original, it is all sheep.
further as town you are one of the largest proponents of using your vote as a means of pressuring people into giving information, and you felt perfectly fine leaving it on a town. like you're just plain mafia.
So you're saying that even though I spent 2-3 pages of filter PREVIOUSLY talking about bunnies all game the fact that I only spent a few long posts on her LATER when she had only posted like a page or less since I left with a lot of fluff in it makes me mafia? Why are you using the the latter half of the game to justify a read on me that should span the whole game? Have you even bothered to check the timestamps of when I've been around, I was sick all day and literally posted as much as I could on as many people I could in the time frame that I've been here (without trying to devolve into spammyness)
I can't believe you'd ever make this read as town. Ever. It literally shows no progression of thought process at all and is a rough job of a case that is based on falsities twisted to fit your narrative. There is no way on this planet that a town ritoky would make this case. Just like the case you made on LS using exclusively meta reads. None of these things you are saying make anyone scum yet you're pushing them so vehemently that it's making YOU look scummy instead.
I hope someone shoots this guy (ritoky) btw.
On December 11 2014 12:43 LightningStrike wrote: Okay Oatsmaster I got a Null read on him due to him not as much as he did on his town games but I guess the limit on the post number on each persons filter making try to conserve his posts a lot more than normal he did have some nice questions but he also made a weird call on Vivax being scum so idk what the true nature of his read on him is. KSC I got him scum right now since most of his posts were more fluff than anything and he didn't ask good questions except once towards me but he also had a I told you so attitude on the lynch of 27ninja before the lynch which one of the scum members in the Campus Mafia game said about me when I was getting lynched kind of tells me he is scum at this point.
I dunno about oats anymore. My point on him was made kinda moot by xata so he's really just a ?. Don't like his wasted vote on vivax after saying he looked towny at all though. In fact there were a LOT of wasted votes.
gonna check out all of those filters at some point to see their views on bunnies and why they weren't on her/what they were doing, kinda bad to still be on xata after he kinda adequately explained every accusation against him tbh and those rogue 1 and 2 voters that are on targets that were barely ever pushed at all (gb, froggy, hts) look terrible
A good way to catch mafia is looking at who wasted their votes on the final votecount of a day. This looks like an attempt to do that. But, you see, he oddly points out EVERY other person outside the main wagon, which is NOT a reasonable thing, specially when we are talking about such strong player as Holyflare.
Following his logic, me, frog and hts looks terrible. This is him stablishing the town agenda. In fact, our wasted votes looks terrible. Reminder: he didn't like froggynoddy's entrance either.
But look at how inconsistent is his play: he stablishes town agenda, but pushes his own agenda (pushing ritoky). He does NOTHING to see these 3 people's alignment. He is NOT interested in these 3 people's alignment. He is just interested to look like an aggressive townie pushing ritoky, but he is actually not trying to solve the game. He is not trying to discover ritoky's alignment. He is just pushing for the sake of pushing someone.
Why this comes from a mafia?: Mafia tends to look contributive but lacks the town intention for solving the game. He simply displays 3 names people should take a look at but does not go after those names. He is disinterested in solving the game, to discover people's alignment. That's not a townie. A townie would go against those 3 names he spoke of. He just posted this analysis because he wants to look contributive.
Town read on froggynoddy
When I noticed these patterns, I inquired him for reads on froggynoddy and Vivax. This is his response:
On December 12 2014 10:21 Holyflare wrote:
On December 12 2014 10:08 GlowingBear wrote: Holyflare
Your reads on froggynoddy and vivax, please.
I have no idea how this is relevant in the slightest when I've made it pretty clear who i think mafia are. Either way, froggy is a kindaaaa towny/i dunno read. He writes quite long posts to say not much but I dunno how to explain that I don't want to lynch him other than saying his posts look innocent enough and to the point. He also wanted people to talk to him about his templar read that he's been pushing around the deadline which was cool and I kinda regret not talking to him more, he also said something around the bunnies lynch which i forget that made it seem like he was actually thinking about the game. I wouldn't say it's particularly difficult stuff to post as mafia but it seems pretty genuine to me.
Vivax has been pushing people that I agree look scummy (- xatalos) but his reasons for doing it look like he's putting in the effort to find out inconsistencies. After a few games where we've been wrong on each other I think we've just resorted to ignoring the other and are just gonna base it on overall play. Well I am anyway. Not really bothered to elaborate further.
You see, he was scumreading froggy noddy, said he looked terrible by his wasted vote, BUT CALLS HIM TOWN WHEN ASKED FOR A READ. This is someone who is NOT consistent with his reads. This is someone who gives fabricated reads and forgets them, or someone who doesn't want to scumread a possible partner. I know for a fact that Holyflare does this a lot. He scumreads a partner to further townread him. Remember: HE HAD NO ATTEMPT TO DISCOVER FROGGY'S ALIGNMENT. He started having this townread on him out of nothing, which is completely scummy. I'm sure you can understand mafia motivation behind it.
Scumread on me
This is hilarious. I want you to check these two posts regarding me, from the most recent to the oldest:
On December 13 2014 08:29 Holyflare wrote: I can only assume someone pushing so much false information is mafia. Much like ritoky who even when presented with multiple pieces of evidence to show that his meta was wrong continued to push his scum read on me. Not to mention his initial contradictory stance on how he has a super solid meta read on me but was fooled last game even though he said that meta read existed then too. Glad to see absolutely nobody in this game is paying attention to that.
On December 10 2014 00:11 Holyflare wrote: 2 people haven't posted in this game at all yet, useful -.-
Oats, your post on vivax is wrong and your post refuting that wasn't in any english I could understand.
Ls looks not bad to me, dunno why people are hating on him giving all the meta when loads of other people do the same. Ritoky seems angry for some reason because of this??
Obi still being useless, just because he was useless last game (russian) as town doesn't stop him being able to be useless this game as mafia. It just means he's useless which increases the odds of him being mafia.
Kush.. Meh will resolve itself i think
Gb hasn't really done anything but hasn't done anything outrageously wrong like I'd expect him to as town but his picking on solely koshi and like nothing else is wearing thin and is pretty scummy
I dunno feel kinda iffy about hts after reading the things about kush feels a bit too flippant
New list oats, obi, (gb?) bunnies Mehhhhbe/mehhhhbe not: hts, kush
HAHAHA HE SAYS IT'S A TOWN TRAIT FOR ME FOR BEING OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG, BUT WHEN HE THINKS I'M OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG THE SCUMREADS ME. This is the most inconsistent thing I have ever seen. He didn't scumread me because I acted scummy. He scumread me because he felt I was getting close to him. He is trying to discredit me and to survive, and not to figure out my alignment. Town perspective would be evaluate my action and figure out my alignment for something he already knows about my gameplay. Mafia perspective is "I'm getting caught, I have to make this guy look bad"
##VOTE: HOLYFLARE RIGHT NOW!!!!
GB...your logic is nuts.
1. HF wanted to look at the wasted votes. He did not say that everyone "wasting" votes was scum. Nor would any sane person believe that. Froggy has barely posted.
2. Comparing an early read on you when you'd barely posted to a much later read on you does not prove inconsistency at all.
This is not a good case.
I'm starting to believe you're misinterpreting me on purpose.
1) Looking at wasted votes = he has suspicions. He did nothing to figure out those people's alignment. 2) It's not a thing of early read. It's that he says I'm town when I do something outrageously wrong. I do something outrageously wrong in his conception and he scumreads me. Explain me this logic, because it's absurd.
Also, I forgot to say about the push on ritoky at night but not questioning the present opening thing, which is ridiculous when you have such a strong scumread. You'll have to agree with me on this because you also felt that thing was wrong.
On December 14 2014 06:04 GlowingBear wrote: I WILL LYNCH WHOEVER DOES NOT VOTES ON HOLYFLARE AFTER THE BEST CASE OF MY LIFE I WILL LYNCH WHOEVER DOES NOT VOTES ON HF
AND I'LL PM GAY PORN EVERYDAY TO YOU GUYS. EVERYDAY.
will switch if tubesock's tryhard defense continues to convince enough people to unvote him
You will switch now.
Mafia is deflecting the ongoing HF's lynch. It was the best opportunity for them to lynch HF but they started deflecting it to FF.
On December 14 2014 05:49 GlowingBear wrote: PART 2
Odd final count analysis and lack of push on town agenda
On December 11 2014 13:08 Holyflare wrote:
On December 11 2014 12:41 ritoky wrote:
On December 11 2014 12:33 Holyflare wrote: you're literally saying right here in the thread that the fact that I updated my read with my own tidbits + what other people had said makes me mafia? ahahahaha how many posts do you think bunnies made in that time frame? 1000? how many posts do I have to spend in a post limited game explaining things that other people are saying + adding my own things on? also the stuff that I said kita mentioned I fleshed out more in that post so it was actually my original thoughts and not just the bolded which you seem to imply it is
also, her points on kelsier were crap, the fact that I'm starting to scum read him now is totally irrelevant to her case being crap at all because it purely involves her flipping town and the stuff he said previous to her flipping
I find it hard to believe you could believe anything you are typing at all.
she made 3 pages worth of posts, actually, so yes she made quite a few. I believe that's over 40 posts to respond to, so your exaggerating and laughing, but actually you're just lying and implying she didn't post a lot or a lot of substance. if she is your top scum read, 3 posts to push and develop your read seems shallow at best; especially with your standards. hell you devoted the same or more posts in the same time frame to reading vivax, kels, and xat; who you didn't push on at all. and i disagree that any of what you said regarding kita's stuff is original, it is all sheep.
further as town you are one of the largest proponents of using your vote as a means of pressuring people into giving information, and you felt perfectly fine leaving it on a town. like you're just plain mafia.
So you're saying that even though I spent 2-3 pages of filter PREVIOUSLY talking about bunnies all game the fact that I only spent a few long posts on her LATER when she had only posted like a page or less since I left with a lot of fluff in it makes me mafia? Why are you using the the latter half of the game to justify a read on me that should span the whole game? Have you even bothered to check the timestamps of when I've been around, I was sick all day and literally posted as much as I could on as many people I could in the time frame that I've been here (without trying to devolve into spammyness)
I can't believe you'd ever make this read as town. Ever. It literally shows no progression of thought process at all and is a rough job of a case that is based on falsities twisted to fit your narrative. There is no way on this planet that a town ritoky would make this case. Just like the case you made on LS using exclusively meta reads. None of these things you are saying make anyone scum yet you're pushing them so vehemently that it's making YOU look scummy instead.
I hope someone shoots this guy (ritoky) btw.
On December 11 2014 12:43 LightningStrike wrote: Okay Oatsmaster I got a Null read on him due to him not as much as he did on his town games but I guess the limit on the post number on each persons filter making try to conserve his posts a lot more than normal he did have some nice questions but he also made a weird call on Vivax being scum so idk what the true nature of his read on him is. KSC I got him scum right now since most of his posts were more fluff than anything and he didn't ask good questions except once towards me but he also had a I told you so attitude on the lynch of 27ninja before the lynch which one of the scum members in the Campus Mafia game said about me when I was getting lynched kind of tells me he is scum at this point.
I dunno about oats anymore. My point on him was made kinda moot by xata so he's really just a ?. Don't like his wasted vote on vivax after saying he looked towny at all though. In fact there were a LOT of wasted votes.
gonna check out all of those filters at some point to see their views on bunnies and why they weren't on her/what they were doing, kinda bad to still be on xata after he kinda adequately explained every accusation against him tbh and those rogue 1 and 2 voters that are on targets that were barely ever pushed at all (gb, froggy, hts) look terrible
A good way to catch mafia is looking at who wasted their votes on the final votecount of a day. This looks like an attempt to do that. But, you see, he oddly points out EVERY other person outside the main wagon, which is NOT a reasonable thing, specially when we are talking about such strong player as Holyflare.
Following his logic, me, frog and hts looks terrible. This is him stablishing the town agenda. In fact, our wasted votes looks terrible. Reminder: he didn't like froggynoddy's entrance either.
But look at how inconsistent is his play: he stablishes town agenda, but pushes his own agenda (pushing ritoky). He does NOTHING to see these 3 people's alignment. He is NOT interested in these 3 people's alignment. He is just interested to look like an aggressive townie pushing ritoky, but he is actually not trying to solve the game. He is not trying to discover ritoky's alignment. He is just pushing for the sake of pushing someone.
Why this comes from a mafia?: Mafia tends to look contributive but lacks the town intention for solving the game. He simply displays 3 names people should take a look at but does not go after those names. He is disinterested in solving the game, to discover people's alignment. That's not a townie. A townie would go against those 3 names he spoke of. He just posted this analysis because he wants to look contributive.
Town read on froggynoddy
When I noticed these patterns, I inquired him for reads on froggynoddy and Vivax. This is his response:
On December 12 2014 10:21 Holyflare wrote:
On December 12 2014 10:08 GlowingBear wrote: Holyflare
Your reads on froggynoddy and vivax, please.
I have no idea how this is relevant in the slightest when I've made it pretty clear who i think mafia are. Either way, froggy is a kindaaaa towny/i dunno read. He writes quite long posts to say not much but I dunno how to explain that I don't want to lynch him other than saying his posts look innocent enough and to the point. He also wanted people to talk to him about his templar read that he's been pushing around the deadline which was cool and I kinda regret not talking to him more, he also said something around the bunnies lynch which i forget that made it seem like he was actually thinking about the game. I wouldn't say it's particularly difficult stuff to post as mafia but it seems pretty genuine to me.
Vivax has been pushing people that I agree look scummy (- xatalos) but his reasons for doing it look like he's putting in the effort to find out inconsistencies. After a few games where we've been wrong on each other I think we've just resorted to ignoring the other and are just gonna base it on overall play. Well I am anyway. Not really bothered to elaborate further.
You see, he was scumreading froggy noddy, said he looked terrible by his wasted vote, BUT CALLS HIM TOWN WHEN ASKED FOR A READ. This is someone who is NOT consistent with his reads. This is someone who gives fabricated reads and forgets them, or someone who doesn't want to scumread a possible partner. I know for a fact that Holyflare does this a lot. He scumreads a partner to further townread him. Remember: HE HAD NO ATTEMPT TO DISCOVER FROGGY'S ALIGNMENT. He started having this townread on him out of nothing, which is completely scummy. I'm sure you can understand mafia motivation behind it.
Scumread on me
This is hilarious. I want you to check these two posts regarding me, from the most recent to the oldest:
On December 13 2014 08:29 Holyflare wrote: I can only assume someone pushing so much false information is mafia. Much like ritoky who even when presented with multiple pieces of evidence to show that his meta was wrong continued to push his scum read on me. Not to mention his initial contradictory stance on how he has a super solid meta read on me but was fooled last game even though he said that meta read existed then too. Glad to see absolutely nobody in this game is paying attention to that.
On December 10 2014 00:11 Holyflare wrote: 2 people haven't posted in this game at all yet, useful -.-
Oats, your post on vivax is wrong and your post refuting that wasn't in any english I could understand.
Ls looks not bad to me, dunno why people are hating on him giving all the meta when loads of other people do the same. Ritoky seems angry for some reason because of this??
Obi still being useless, just because he was useless last game (russian) as town doesn't stop him being able to be useless this game as mafia. It just means he's useless which increases the odds of him being mafia.
Kush.. Meh will resolve itself i think
Gb hasn't really done anything but hasn't done anything outrageously wrong like I'd expect him to as town but his picking on solely koshi and like nothing else is wearing thin and is pretty scummy
I dunno feel kinda iffy about hts after reading the things about kush feels a bit too flippant
New list oats, obi, (gb?) bunnies Mehhhhbe/mehhhhbe not: hts, kush
HAHAHA HE SAYS IT'S A TOWN TRAIT FOR ME FOR BEING OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG, BUT WHEN HE THINKS I'M OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG THE SCUMREADS ME. This is the most inconsistent thing I have ever seen. He didn't scumread me because I acted scummy. He scumread me because he felt I was getting close to him. He is trying to discredit me and to survive, and not to figure out my alignment. Town perspective would be evaluate my action and figure out my alignment for something he already knows about my gameplay. Mafia perspective is "I'm getting caught, I have to make this guy look bad"
##VOTE: HOLYFLARE RIGHT NOW!!!!
GB...your logic is nuts.
1. HF wanted to look at the wasted votes. He did not say that everyone "wasting" votes was scum. Nor would any sane person believe that. Froggy has barely posted.
2. Comparing an early read on you when you'd barely posted to a much later read on you does not prove inconsistency at all.
This is not a good case.
I'm starting to believe you're misinterpreting me on purpose.
1) Looking at wasted votes = he has suspicions. He did nothing to figure out those people's alignment. 2) It's not a thing of early read. It's that he says I'm town when I do something outrageously wrong. I do something outrageously wrong in his conception and he scumreads me. Explain me this logic, because it's absurd.
Also, I forgot to say about the push on ritoky at night but not questioning the present opening thing, which is ridiculous when you have such a strong scumread. You'll have to agree with me on this because you also felt that thing was wrong.
I do agree with you on his not questioning ritoky's claim, GB. I cannot blame a soul for scumreading you when you're pushing mass role claims, though. You may be right that his push on both you and ritoky was reactionary. I don't know. But I do know that I don't see this as overwhelmingly scummy.
Again: that's not the point. He is scumreading me for a thing he said is a town trait for me.
This is the point.
If you don't think this is overwhelmingly scummy, I need you to say what is.
On December 14 2014 06:06 GlowingBear wrote: Seriously.
READ MY CASE. VOTE HOLYFLARE OR POINT OUT WHY MY CASE IS WRONG.
I absolutely refuse to be bullied or intimidated by a player who WILL NOT consider any other lynches or trains but the one he has been pushing from (nearly) the start of the day, after a brief but ultimately lukewarm prodding at ritoky.
I DO NOT believe that you give something to potential mafia (read: null reads) because that is just as stupid as telling everyone to mass claim.
I DO NOT LIKE the way you keep trying to pressure everyone to play the way you want them to play, threatening them.
I may be wrong about you as scum, but your legitimacy in my eyes is ZERO. And I'm not sure why others would let you strongarm them into things either.
I can respect people voting HF who believe he's scum. I cannot respect your style of play.
EPT
