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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 15 2014 08:54 jcarlsoniv wrote: What does it tell us Jeff? I want to hear it in your words, I don't want anyone else answering this question. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On October 15 2014 11:15 jcarlsoniv wrote: You and I need to talk some more I think.I don't like this post nearly as much as your first one. The meat of this paragraph is coming from the assumption that I am manipulating people, specifically Requizen. This is so ridiculously off base. I saw the intereactions between ketchup and Requizen. I then began pressing him as well. He shut down and became erratic under any hint of pressure. Everyone is excusing it because it's Requizen, and I'm calling bullshit. And once again, you're parroting this "fake anger" thing. And I will repeat - Wave's play is frustrating me, and I'm trying to maintain a level headedness. You are taking Wave's misguided crosshairs as gospel and using that to justify something that is simply untrue. Lynching a lurker D1 and lynching a lurker D2 are two wildly different things. The way things are going, I still maintain that the majority of this thread is town yelling at each other while the scum just sit quietly and get by with minimal posting. I lumped Jeff in with the "scummy as fuck lurkers" because, as said above, there is a larger than I'm comfortable with number of scummers hiding in the lurkers. Because let's face it, half of the players in this game are not posting enough. Earlier on, I believe I said something to the effect of "just because LT is dead doesn't mean you can get off scot free and not post anymore" to him, and so I'm trying to keep him honest. There are lots of lurkers, and I wish other people would be addressing them directly as well. That bolded part at the end serves absolutely no purpose other than to shed me in a negative light. It's pure conjecture with no basis. I don't understand why you'd be praising his scum play. He's playing so scummy that there's no way he's scum? And therefore it's masterful? Not a chance. And you finish it off with a quick, harmless noob claim. I didn't convince LT of shit, I haven't had to defend myself until today, after he was dead. He made that read based on what he saw of me in game, I don't really think I had many 1 on 1 interactions with him. Welcome to my scum list Asmo. Your first case post was good. This one reeks of scum trying to keep the momentum on this bandwagon because wave is stirring up enough trouble to keep it viable. And other people had better pay attention to the conversation we have. As far as lurkers stealing away the game goes---I don't think that's fair any more as I mentioned above. There are people with less content volume and less quality, sure, but there's more than enough to go on by now, and even those with the smallest filters have posted a decent enough amount today. I don't really expect anyone to come even close to what I'm capable of churning out. If you want to eliminate 'lurkers,' the ABSOLUTE first one on your list should be Jeff, because he continually lurks until the pressure on him rises (with a small exception being he put forth some stuff today---though that is neither here nor there because it's entirely possible he just caught on that we caught on). There may be something to the fact that there are those sitting by while I stir up shit, but then you have to tell me exactly where that's occurring. What's the context? How can you prove to me those people are scum? Because as I see it, if you escape the noose today it means it's Jeff's head and then it may just come back to you D3. Either way, I think I get what I want today. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On October 15 2014 11:00 GhandiEAGLE wrote: You guys are absolutely tunnelvisioning on me being scum. I'm not. There are less reasons than before, but I think a couple certain people have good reasons and then other newbs misconstrue these reasons as clear evidence that I'm scum. Also why am I seen as a lurker? I lurked on day 1, but other than that I've been posting whenever possible. I have one of the longest filters. It's not Wave-Ketchup status but it's certainly not Coma-Mordek status. Your filter means nothing, which is part of the problem. You think just because you have 5 pages of posts that are somewhere between 1 -3 sentences it means you are actively helping town? It doesn't. You want to look less scummy? Stop doing scummy things. Again, start trying to ping out people you think are scum, and pressuring them to respond. I admit that you have other priorities, but it doesn't mean I can let you get away with the way you post. Answer these questions for me: Why are you not scum? What town moves/plays have you made to help town find scum? Those are the biggest questions I have for you, and others probably have as well. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On October 15 2014 11:15 jcarlsoniv wrote: I don't like this post nearly as much as your first one. The meat of this paragraph is coming from the assumption that I am manipulating people, specifically Requizen. This is so ridiculously off base. I saw the intereactions between ketchup and Requizen. I then began pressing him as well. He shut down and became erratic under any hint of pressure. Everyone is excusing it because it's Requizen, and I'm calling bullshit. And once again, you're parroting this "fake anger" thing. And I will repeat - Wave's play is frustrating me, and I'm trying to maintain a level headedness. You are taking Wave's misguided crosshairs as gospel and using that to justify something that is simply untrue. I'm not excusing it, I'm saying I'm buying it so far. Req's posting style all over this site reads like this on his bad days, and you and I both know that. His last game went into this direction at points, and you were in it with him. You're a good enough player that if you wanted to take advantage of that, I think you could. Again, Wave wasn't the one who pointed that out. Sure he jumped on the idea, but it was Alaric's observation. Maybe Wave's collusion is hinting that he's looking to get you lynched as a scummer. Maybe it means he and Alaric are in it together for the scum glory. But I doubt it. The possibility is there and it fits with the subtlety of the scum play I'm accusing you of so far. Lynching a lurker D1 and lynching a lurker D2 are two wildly different things. The way things are going, I still maintain that the majority of this thread is town yelling at each other while the scum just sit quietly and get by with minimal posting. Because this is a game of mafia noobs and seemingly busy people, I'm guessing there are just as many (read: more, because of the scum:town ratio) townies lurking. I think pointing a lurker gun hits town more often than scum. I lumped Jeff in with the "scummy as fuck lurkers" because, as said above, there is a larger than I'm comfortable with number of scummers hiding in the lurkers. Because let's face it, half of the players in this game are not posting enough. Earlier on, I believe I said something to the effect of "just because LT is dead doesn't mean you can get off scot free and not post anymore" to him, and so I'm trying to keep him honest. There are lots of lurkers, and I wish other people would be addressing them directly as well. That bolded part at the end serves absolutely no purpose other than to shed me in a negative light. It's pure conjecture with no basis. You're right. I shouldn't have included that. It was a tangential thought based on one of your earlier scum reads. Probably doesn't apply now. Perhaps this is the best opportunity for a question: do you prefer a Coma or Ghandi lynch, of your two non-Req (and me I guess) candidates? That's really what that section was about: your priorities. I don't understand why you'd be praising his scum play. He's playing so scummy that there's no way he's scum? And therefore it's masterful? Not a chance. I don't know how well Req can fake his angry self. That's what would make it impressive to me. Can't do much about that. I can talk about it now or later, but when so much of what you and others are saying is factored around non-participation, it's relevant. I'm not going to let it be part of the case against me. + Show Spoiler [Participation] + I misjudged the time I would need to take part in this game well. That's what it comes down to and I bet its the same for others. We can discuss it further later. I didn't convince LT of shit, I haven't had to defend myself until today, after he was dead. He made that read based on what he saw of me in game, I don't really think I had many 1 on 1 interactions with him. Welcome to my scum list Asmo. Your first case post was good. This one reeks of scum trying to keep the momentum on this bandwagon because wave is stirring up enough trouble to keep it viable. That's what I meant by "convince": your in-game play was towny enough to keep LT off you. It wasn't direct, it was far better. And it worked on me. Not hard, certainly, but I think it worked on LT as well. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 15 2014 11:22 WaveofShadow wrote: You and I need to talk some more I think. And other people had better pay attention to the conversation we have. As far as lurkers stealing away the game goes---I don't think that's fair any more as I mentioned above. There are people with less content volume and less quality, sure, but there's more than enough to go on by now, and even those with the smallest filters have posted a decent enough amount today. Oh surely. Today's activity has been much better, but the majority of the posts made today have still been within a core group of people. I don't really expect anyone to come even close to what I'm capable of churning out. If you want to eliminate 'lurkers,' the ABSOLUTE first one on your list should be Jeff, because he continually lurks until the pressure on him rises (with a small exception being he put forth some stuff today---though that is neither here nor there because it's entirely possible he just caught on that we caught on). And look, I'm still trying to put pressure on him. I would love to get an answer from him to the question I've directed to him twice. But I also think that there is red blood in Req. There may be something to the fact that there are those sitting by while I stir up shit, but then you have to tell me exactly where that's occurring. What's the context? How can you prove to me those people are scum? Because as I see it, if you escape the noose today it means it's Jeff's head and then it may just come back to you D3. Either way, I think I get what I want today. If you've been paying any semblance of attention at all today, then you already know the context. The first half of D2 has been spent with a bunch of people pushing me, myself and ketchup pushing Req, and some people pushing Jeff. The difference between them and me is that I'm really the only one at all fighting to keep me alive, and I'm the only one used really provided a halfway decent defense. Question for you - why are you so quick to write off Req's play just because it's Req? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
Your turn now, and Asmo is asking for it too. More detail on your other scumreads. A general question for basically everyone in here...what do you think the reason for 'applying pressure is,' exactly? Because if you think the point is to get answers for your questions, you're probably barking up the wrong tree. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
you can be patient and let the quiet ones talk for a while. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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ketchup
14521 Posts
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ketchup
14521 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
Req has little to no connection with me, so lynching me has no impact on how he flips. You pursued him closely, but never really gained traction for it. Despite this lack of traction, you still made a push for it. If you flip red he's finally essentially proven townie and will sort out this whole mess with him. If you flip green, I think everyone would be ok with a Req lynch (or at least force his potential blue role). I think if you flip red Alzadar is also under a lot of consideration. When you flip red you'll also finally prove me innocent, something that nothing else but my own death will do (since Wave and Ketchup are pretty damn town). My point is that you have a connection with many more players than I do. Other than passing exchanges, right now I really only have significant connections with you, Wave, and Ketchup, and we know most about those people. You're the only real question mark tied with me, and maybe Coma is as well. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 15 2014 11:53 ketchup wrote: Wave, it's not the lack of posts that annoy me about the lurkers, but the lack of interaction between everyone in the thread. Right now, it's usually me, you, or soniv. Before this, we could add in tolkien too. The majority of the players have very little interaction between each other. I'm trying very hard to force interaction when I can, but it doesn't work the way I want. I tried to pressure Req to expand on reads, and he went defensive on me. Worse yet, he seems more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of us are just gone for really long swaths of time. Like when I was around earlier I tried talking to Req and Alz a little bit but not many other people were active at the time. Then I went to work and ofc that's when Jeff comes back. Caught up now but still analyzing what happened while I was gone, will post before bed. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On October 15 2014 12:01 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Asmo has been pretty timely with his input, and it's been well thought-out. However, it's never actually led to anything at all (except MoonBear, but to be fair I don't think that was his fault; it was pretty inevitable with the way MB was playing there). I like how you're getting at things Asmo, but I want to see more conviction in your reads. You don't vote very often at all, but I think it could be valuable. I know you're on Soniv now, but I want to see you take more of a leading role in future discussion. You do realize this post is completely and utterly useless, right? I hope everyone else does too. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On October 15 2014 11:53 ketchup wrote: Why is game so difficult? QQ It wouldn't be so hard if I were better at the game  I really want to stick to my guns here but now I'm tempted to lynch into the lesser-discussed pool. I think in the end we have to stick with soniv/jeff because they leave too many unanswered questions. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
On October 15 2014 12:07 WaveofShadow wrote: I want people to look at the bolded section of my post on Asmo and respond please. You do realize this post is completely and utterly useless, right? I hope everyone else does too. I call it the Soniv Post | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On October 15 2014 11:12 WaveofShadow wrote: One specific section really struck me though and I'd very much like to get opinions on this. This is an entirely new POV and shows that Asmo is attempting to think about connections between scummers. Now some people including myself have pointed out that pre-flip association isn't particularly useful, and often results in confirmation bias leading you and others astray. That however, isn't my main point. My biggest problem (and it is literally a problem, because I'm not sure I can give a completely unbiased answer to it): Which alignment posts something like the bolded? Who is thinking about leaving a scum to be sacrificed? Is this something that is going on in the scum QT that Asmo is trying to 'bring to light?' Is he just thinking really critically? I am not trying to lead on any answers here, but I want opinions. I think that section of the post is the key to cracking Asmo one way or another. This is difficult for me to answer. I really thought asmo was a bit scummy earlier, but his last few posts have been decent. He is actively attempting to look at things in different perspectives, which is nice. The fact that he pointed out soniv might be attempting to get me back on his side by pressuring Req(and I was the only one who wanted people to look at Req), was nice to me. I thought about it as well, but I discarded the information because it seems fairly complex for no real reward. What's the point of pocketing me when I can't save him? I think the scenario he thought up, is basically only possible in extreme circumstances. It's overly complicated, and that's more of a town tell to me than it is a scum tell. | ||
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