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On October 15 2014 12:42 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 12:38 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 15 2014 12:33 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
What im trying to show is that these "prod posts" are useless ways for people to seem helpful while never playing any cards. I think we should stop accepting these as legitimate discussion starters. What are you referring to? I'm saying this is what Soniv has been doing a lot, claiming that its "generating discussion." He reads things, says something about them, and moves on. This changes when he defends himself or when he went off against Req. His attack on Req actually is one of the few things tempting me to not vote Soniv. I certainly haven't seen a more convincing or useful lynch anywhere else though since everyone is staying so quiet and not making big connections with people.
Jeff, these "prod posts" are how you try and get information. How else would you expect scumhunting to happen? How are they not legitimate discussion starters? What have you done comparatively instead that I should emulate, since you seem to know so much about scumhunting.
And, again, I'm not sure how people expected my defense to be. But I'm done repeating myself.
On October 15 2014 18:19 Cixah wrote:
Wave, Soniv, and Ghandi.
I want your reads on Alzadar.
On October 15 2014 13:28 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Looking through Soniv's filter, he hasn't been nearly on top of you anymore. On day 1/night 1, he made remarks towards you relatively often. It's much less so recently, but that also loops around to the fact that you have had very little participation in moving guilt towards anyone yet. But at the same time, you haven't made many connections with people. So lynching you gets us nowhere again. Speak up more so we can tell if you're town or not.
Maybe I've been off Alzadar's case because during N1 I said that I had changed my read on him to more of a green color? I have not paid too much attention to him during D2, but I've been a little preoccupied with defending myself and trying to actually find scum in Req and now you Jeff.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 14 2014 07:50 jcarlsoniv wrote:Y'know, I come out of Alzadar's filter actually thinking he's more townie. There were some posts I remember that I thought were surely scum leaning, that register to me differently this time around. Example: Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 04:46 Alzadar wrote:
Bandwagon? I was the first to suspect Cixah, decided to actually vote cause Wave seems antsy to have us vote, and I trust him as our fearless Townie leader.
Strategic talk: if you hold the oldest vote on someone (as Ghandhi did), you shouldn't change it arbitrarily, you're giving up tiebreak power. First time around, the first part of the post seemed odd and sheepish to me - reflecting what I said earlier about him saying things to satisfy the thread. But before this post, he put Wave at probably town, and so this reads more as someone who is collaborating with someone he kinda sorta might trust a little bit. Also, the second part exemplifies another quality of his general posting. He's been talking about setup stuff here and there (a fair amount of it earlier on), and usually it's not very productive or helpful and often distracts town. But rereading, he asks coherent questions that apply to the game flow, they show that he's invested in the goings on and is paying attention (despite backwards canadiansgiving). His filter comes off with more of a town vibe than I expected it to. It did remind me of two things as well. 1. The IC claim was at a really weird time. That's right, I'm lookin' at you 6ah. I really hope that confirmation comes through or D2 is going to be very boring lol. 2. I want to take a look at Ket Chup. He's someone who I haven't really noticed even though I know he's been posting quite a bit. He will probably be my next focus. Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 07:39 Lord Tolkien wrote:
If wav and sonib are mommy and daddy, what does that make me? The young twink that daddy's having an affair with? the mistress
I am honestly baffled at the number of people who don't think I'm defending myself properly, but also at the number of people who just seem to not be reading my posts.
It is pretty clear at this point that you guys are going to let Req pass just because he's Req, and I really hope it's not our downfall. I think you're all being foolish. But between last night and this morning, I feel so much more on board with a Jeff lynch. The only real recent interest he's shown in lynch targets has been to say "that guy on the chopping block is scummier than me, lynch him instead".
##unvote
##vote Jeff
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It's time to make a choice, Alaric. Coma's not being lynched today.
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On October 15 2014 12:34 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 11:12 WaveofShadow wrote:One specific section really struck me though and I'd very much like to get opinions on this.
To me, this says that Jeff is sacrificial scum: the scum (read: Soniv) know he's going down eventually, but they're going to try and put off a lynch on him until they get as many lurky town-peeps as possible. Definitely Coma, but I don't know if it ends there. Maybe Soniv rounds back on Alz (but here my reasoning gets less event-based, so let's avoid mere ideas).
This is an entirely new POV and shows that Asmo is attempting to think about connections between scummers. Now some people including myself have pointed out that pre-flip association isn't particularly useful, and often results in confirmation bias leading you and others astray. That however, isn't my main point. My biggest problem (and it is literally a problem, because I'm not sure I can give a completely unbiased answer to it): Which alignment posts something like the bolded? Who is thinking about leaving a scum to be sacrificed? Is this something that is going on in the scum QT that Asmo is trying to 'bring to light?' Is he just thinking really critically? I am not trying to lead on any answers here, but I want opinions. I think that section of the post is the key to cracking Asmo one way or another. This is difficult for me to answer. I really thought asmo was a bit scummy earlier, but his last few posts have been decent. He is actively attempting to look at things in different perspectives, which is nice. The fact that he pointed out soniv might be attempting to get me back on his side by pressuring Req(and I was the only one who wanted people to look at Req), was nice to me. I thought about it as well, but I discarded the information because it seems fairly complex for no real reward. What's the point of pocketing me when I can't save him? I think the scenario he thought up, is basically only possible in extreme circumstances. It's overly complicated, and that's more of a town tell to me than it is a scum tell.
@Wave regarding the bolded
I actually had the same thought as Asmo that this was possibly a distancing technique of some sort since I think anyone that defends Jeff at this point either needs to have some REALLY good points or makes the scummiest looking play yet thits game. I'm still warming up to the game, I feel like man I need to have some original thoughts and then I don't post original thoughts. It's like you don't realize the connections your making consciously enough to think, Oh I should post that. So take that for what you will, hopefully other newbs can relate to that feeling. I didn't get a scum vibe from Asmo's point and I think ketchup makes a good point that the motivation behind posting that is more town than scum.
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I'm starting to consider that my scumreads could be off and we are dealing with lurk city.
If so I'm fine with ousting the mayor first.
##unvote
##vote GhandiEAGLE
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6ah I'll get to Alzadar if I get the chance later. He's not really important right now.
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On October 15 2014 12:38 Cixah wrote:
I got to take my agression out on casting spells as a mage in shadowrun so this is going to boil down to one thing. I've been taking this game too much as puzzle and less of a series of people trying to manipulate one another.
This is what I've been feeling too. I've thought about it but considered it would just clutter the thread and be harmful speculation, but since Asmo brought it up too (and now you) and Wave seems to want it discussed in the spoilered post (and scum!Wave trying to lead down a red herring isn't credible at this point), here we go.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 15 2014 11:12 WaveofShadow wrote:One specific section really struck me though and I'd very much like to get opinions on this. Show nested quote +
To me, this says that Jeff is sacrificial scum: the scum (read: Soniv) know he's going down eventually, but they're going to try and put off a lynch on him until they get as many lurky town-peeps as possible. Definitely Coma, but I don't know if it ends there. Maybe Soniv rounds back on Alz (but here my reasoning gets less event-based, so let's avoid mere ideas).
This is an entirely new POV and shows that Asmo is attempting to think about connections between scummers. Now some people including myself have pointed out that pre-flip association isn't particularly useful, and often results in confirmation bias leading you and others astray. That however, isn't my main point. My biggest problem (and it is literally a problem, because I'm not sure I can give a completely unbiased answer to it): Which alignment posts something like the bolded? Who is thinking about leaving a scum to be sacrificed? Is this something that is going on in the scum QT that Asmo is trying to 'bring to light?' Is he just thinking really critically? I am not trying to lead on any answers here, but I want opinions. I think that section of the post is the key to cracking Asmo one way or another.
I'm not going to paste my reasoning as Wave seems to think that topic would give scum too many tools to play around with us, but I'm keeping it under my thumb if people think it should be laid out instead.
Conclusions are: someone's lying. By this I mean not lurking, white lies, vagueness, or just leaving trails for townies to pick up, but flat-out, straight-up lying in his posts.
And it makes me pretty convinced that we have a bus going on.
There are so many claims that not only it's easy for anyone to hide behind one of the bandwagons, you can also pretend that "if X turns out red then I'm cleared", which are multiplicating right now. People are pretty much saying "pause my case until we can draw conclusions from a flip" which amounts to stalling the game and feels scummy right now.
That's ballsy because if we read through it then scum lose at least half their numbers (2 out of 3-4) but the more I think about it, the likelier it gets.
The annoying part is how the new element "someone's straight up telling lies" changes the situation for me. So far Asmo's case seemed solid, and I could get behind Requizen because all my expectations were met, and now I have to ask myself "Can I trust Asmodeus' posts? Was I wrong to evaluate Requizen as a good investigator but a poor mastermind?" and it creates uncertainty I hate having to deal with.
On October 15 2014 11:34 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 11:15 jcarlsoniv wrote:
The meat of this paragraph is coming from the assumption that I am manipulating people, specifically Requizen. This is so ridiculously off base. I saw the intereactions between ketchup and Requizen. I then began pressing him as well. He shut down and became erratic under any hint of pressure. Everyone is excusing it because it's Requizen, and I'm calling bullshit.
And once again, you're parroting this "fake anger" thing. And I will repeat - Wave's play is frustrating me, and I'm trying to maintain a level headedness. You are taking Wave's misguided crosshairs as gospel and using that to justify something that is simply untrue.
I'm not excusing it, I'm saying I'm buying it so far. Req's posting style all over this site reads like this on his bad days, and you and I both know that. His last game went into this direction at points, and you were in it with him. You're a good enough player that if you wanted to take advantage of that, I think you could. Again, Wave wasn't the one who pointed that out. Sure he jumped on the idea, but it was Alaric's observation. Maybe Wave's collusion is hinting that he's looking to get you lynched as a scummer. Maybe it means he and Alaric are in it together for the scum glory. But I doubt it.The possibility is there and it fits with the subtlety of the scum play I'm accusing you of so far.
Are you saying you're not convinced whether or not you're town? 
Regarding the "fake anger" thing, I wouldn't read too much into it: Wave reacted to it first, and I made pretty much the same observation by posting from the next-to-last page at the time so I hadn't read it. However it was more of a cheeky jab from me because I thought it was so obvious Soniv was exaggerating it. I was a bit surprised that Wave jumped on it that way as it made the whole "issue" seem much more serious/ground for analysis than I thought it was.
Maybe I'm misguided, but that one was so obvious, I believe Soniv good enough to get some manipulation going, and do it better than that.
On October 15 2014 12:47 ComaDose wrote:
owb would say space jam
What?
On October 15 2014 12:38 Cixah wrote:I'm going to bed late again because of this thread. Completely ruining my sleep schedule for this crap  .
That too. Tbh I don't think I'll be around for this deadline nor the next, I've been feeling tired the last 2 days at work and I've got to fix that.
I'm saying it so you don't rely on me for a last minute vote swing or whatever may come up, my vote ~2 hours before the deadline should be my definite one.
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On October 15 2014 21:38 Alzadar wrote:
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It's time to make a choice, Alaric. Coma's not being lynched today.
Yup. I'd considered that before, and I don't feel like it's getting late either so I'm not gonna throw my vote for now.
It is pretty much set at this point, I just want to look at things a bit still.
I can always PM my vote's motivation to Dandel now, and he can confirm when I post it that I haven't changed it, if you want (and if Dandel is 0K with that?).
##Unvote
And while I'm at it,
mod question: can I do that?
Another one: do I get the roleblocker/jailkeeper/medic interactions with the poisoner right?
- medic: doesn't prevent the victim from being fed a vial. Stops the victim from dying to the poison.
- roleblocker: stops the poisoner from feeding his vial (vial is lost). Doesn't prevent the poison/antidote taking effect (poison is a delayed effect, and the antidote is received by the victim, they aren't active actions). Prevents the medic from cancelling the poison.
- jailkeeper: stops the poisoner from feeding his vial (vial is lost). Prevents the victim from being fed a vial (vial is lost?). Doesn't prevent the poison taking effect (it's a delayed effect, not a targeted one). Prevents the medic from cancelling the poison.
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so...you're claiming poisoner Alaric? Is this something that you've said before and I (and seemingly everyone else) has missed it?
You seem very nonchalant about it, I'm confused.
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Alaric i don't understand, what are you trying to do with your vote? Just vote dude.
And at this point yes, it's pretty obvious there's a bus going on, unless it's lurk city not involving Jeff which isn't an option widely considered at the moment.
I doubt I'll get a chance can before deadline but you're right there are a few people talking about being 'cleared' which is kind of silly because you can only truly be cleared in this game by dying or through role action.
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Oh hmm I just ignored all that green shit. Yeah at this point of you're claiming then out with it. If not, whatever.
Soniv, still waiting on dem reads from yesterday. Time is ticking and very few people other than me have the key to your salvation.
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wat
alaric, PM me questions in a readable and conscise format please.
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Wave, I'm still waiting for you to read the posts I've already made.
My top 3 right now are Req, Jeff, and Asmo, in that order. Coma has fallen down that list a bit, but mostly because others have come up as more scummy. All three of the ones I've listed I have already explained.
Pretending you have the key to anything is hilarious.
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Where's your stuff on Asmo and coma?
I read your little vote business on Jeff but all it really comes down to is you think he's scummy because he votes the person who looks worse than him.
Something you could arguably be doing right now.
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On October 15 2014 23:17 WaveofShadow wrote:
Where's your stuff on Asmo and coma?
I read your little vote business on Jeff but all it really comes down to is you think he's scummy because he votes the person who looks worse than him.
Something you could arguably be doing right now.
My stuff on Asmo is in the entire post I made addressing his second case post on me. Coma was a weak read on my part, and I haven't done any super in depth analysis on him since because there are others I find more scummy.
The difference between me and Jeff is that I've been actually trying to find scum. I tried to push Req, no one else is having it. I'm accepting that town is just giving Req a free pass (although I vehemently disagree with it) and voting Jeff, who I have determined scummy. Jeff is sitting there going "uhh... no it's not me it's that other guy". He doesn't care who it is, as long as it's not him. He did it with MB D1, he's doing it with me now.
I'm in meetings until this afternoon. I'm done with you being completely fixated on things despite me being very open this entire day and appeasing your ridiculous attitude. You have chastised me for tunneling MB so hard and not changing my read on him D1. You are doing the exact same thing to me now, even though I've been FAR more productive and open than MB ever was.
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I don't have a lot of time since I'm about to leave, but how am I lurk city? Wave you're throwing around that term a lot, but I'm not even close to the lurkiest lurker here. I'm not the most frequent poster, but calling me a lurker is pretty damn incorrect. It's a D1 mindset that y'all need to lose.
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Nah now I'm just using the term to describe the group of you.
SONIV ANGRYYYY
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re: buses and being 'cleared'
On October 15 2014 11:56 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 11:20 jcarlsoniv wrote:Jeff, you never answered my question: On October 15 2014 08:54 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 08:39 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I was following the Wave-Soniv thing with a lot of interest, and Soniv is still my #1 most wanted. Right now, he's the only lynch other than me (but I'm innocent, I'm afraid) that tells us a lot. What does it tell us Jeff? I want to hear it in your words, I don't want anyone else answering this question. When you flip red you'll also finally prove me innocent,
Did you ever explain why this remotely makes sense? Soniv flipping red makes you even more suspicious, given how the D1 vote went down.
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Yup.
Though consider, is that a mistake scum is likely to make? When I'm scum I'm hyper - aware of almost everything I say and do, so a flagrantly wrong comment like that would be a no-no.
As would blatantly lying about going to bed and then posting after that point for fear of being caught.
I didn't want to bring that up just yet but I suppose of is a good time. Essentially this means that either Jeff is terrible scum (would fit with the way he's played most of this game) or he's actually town.
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Well looks like I'm not going to school today, so I can actually join you guys in ~1 hour
fun times
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Skipping school is a real scum move.
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EPT
