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Actually that's helped me a lot to sort my thoughts.
Four town enemies are what we're expecting, and that's what I read. Between Soniv, Ghandhi, Asmo and Req, which lynch gives us the most information? It's got to be one of the former two, Asmo and Req tell little if they turn red.
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I've been suspicious of you Alz but I couldn't find anything and you keep saying what I'm thinking. My notepad at my desk looks just like your list except I have you in fishy/3p category and Req is a wildcard for me right now.
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On October 15 2014 03:16 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:15 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 03:09 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:48 Requizen wrote:@Soniv Did you purposefully ignore the post I made about you 5 posts after that? On October 14 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
I don't know on Soniv. Again, like Alz, his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean. I like how he was on MB from early and stuck with it, so he wasn't really flip-floppy. Even if it was wrong, I like how he put down a feeling and then stuck with it rather that throwing his vote wherever.
But, his discussions (while moving the thread along), rarely give any of his own opinions. Other than his read on MB and an early read list, most of it is just talking about other player's reads until the end of the day rolled around. This doesn't scream scum to me, but it's very observer-like and lurky. Being around, talking without really drawing attention or saying anything that jumps can be a very effective stealth tool. Like ketchup, you are "reading my filter" but ignoring the posts that make you look incorrect. My reads at this point should be disregarded. My vote D1 was not wasted, because it would not have affected the end result of MB's lynch one way or another. Is there a particular reason you and ketchup are both taking the same steps to paint me in a bad light? Because we're noticing the same things? I didn't ignore that post, it only reinforces my point - you aren't giving a read on me. "his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean" "this doesn't scream scum to me". These are very non-committal opinions. You want my opinion? You look scummy as fuck. Moreso than Coma. ##unvote
##vote Requizen You blatantly left it out of your "in depth investigation" to make me look like worse. I haven't changed that stance. I don't have a good read on you. My instincts don't scream mafia but you haven't posted enough helpful things to be confirmed town. You are 20%~30% scum, which doesn't mean anything. If the votes go towards you, I have no problem letting them go through because I don't think you're confirmed town like some other people. If they don't, that's fine too, I think Wave is a bigger threat (for reasons listed multiple times). I am not flipping on things. My opinions have formed slowly and changed slowly, and I have been outspoken and honest about it every step of the way. Ignoring that and trying to utilize misinformation makes you look bad, and I'd rather not have to pursue you. As an aside, I'm removing my vote from ketchup since, as I said before, I don't think he's scum and I just jumped on him because he was on my case. I hope this reasoning is clear enough that it can be referenced in the future without someone twisting my actions to try and draw attention off of themselves.##unvote That last paragraph is what's called an OMGUS vote, and it is a huge scumtell. I didn't even know that was a thing. Ok, I guess it's a scummy move for someone who's played mafia for however many games, but you can clearly read the exchange between us (which was taking place at 1 in the morning) and realize my frustration. If not, then you can continue to ignore the evidence that is literally written down. On October 15 2014 03:00 Cixah wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:56 Cixah wrote:
Dandel if you get a chance can we get an updated vote soon?
Soniv is pushing heavy to get everything off him, which is good. However everything said by him does nothing but deflect attention for me. If Req is really your scum read soniv, What Committal opinon do you have on Req?
Req isn't helping matters but I still have no reason to distrust him yet. I Like his position less and less especially over the last 4 hours but he's still town to me. Req, you need to find something to you can stand on, and soon otherwise I think you swing soon. I don't quite know what you're asking here. Could you clarify? You keep stating that he's deflecting the question that has him pinned on Scum. Which question are you refering to and How does NOT answering it or giving a STRAIGHT answer make him scum? I'm sorry, I'm still not really following. Everyone seems to have an opinion on me except Req. When asked directly, sure he has stuck with his "I have no real read on him" position - but I find that unacceptable when everyone else seems to want me dead. He's actively avoiding a bandwagon without coming out and saying that I'm town. If I said you were town, it doesn't matter because it likely wouldn't dissuade people from riding your case given my bad reads and lack of conviction compared to theirs. If I said you were scum, people would accuse me of just jumping on the bandwagon given that I did not have that read on you previously. So I stuck to my guns and gave an honest opinion - that is, I don't know if you are either right now and I don't think I need to be forced to say. My game does not revolve around you. You're just one out of eleven. Trying to force suspicion onto me is not going to get the votes off of you. By the by, you voting for me is also pretty well a OMGUS vote, since you just voted for me because you are upset that I didn't answer you the way you wanted to be answered. And, in your own words,
Yeah...that's not how OMGUS works. You voted ketchup because he started pressing you and asking questions. In your words "he was on your case". I'm voting you because in the face of several cases on me, and despite saying you'd dive into my filter, you're still null on me. What you did is OMGUS, what I did is vote someone that I think is scum.
You literally have just admitted that you avoided saying I'm scum because you didn't want to be accused of bandwagoning.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 15 2014 03:15 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:09 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:48 Requizen wrote:@Soniv Did you purposefully ignore the post I made about you 5 posts after that? On October 14 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
I don't know on Soniv. Again, like Alz, his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean. I like how he was on MB from early and stuck with it, so he wasn't really flip-floppy. Even if it was wrong, I like how he put down a feeling and then stuck with it rather that throwing his vote wherever.
But, his discussions (while moving the thread along), rarely give any of his own opinions. Other than his read on MB and an early read list, most of it is just talking about other player's reads until the end of the day rolled around. This doesn't scream scum to me, but it's very observer-like and lurky. Being around, talking without really drawing attention or saying anything that jumps can be a very effective stealth tool. Like ketchup, you are "reading my filter" but ignoring the posts that make you look incorrect. My reads at this point should be disregarded. My vote D1 was not wasted, because it would not have affected the end result of MB's lynch one way or another. Is there a particular reason you and ketchup are both taking the same steps to paint me in a bad light? Because we're noticing the same things? I didn't ignore that post, it only reinforces my point - you aren't giving a read on me. "his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean" "this doesn't scream scum to me". These are very non-committal opinions. You want my opinion? You look scummy as fuck. Moreso than Coma. ##unvote
##vote Requizen You blatantly left it out of your "in depth investigation" to make me look like worse. I haven't changed that stance. I don't have a good read on you. My instincts don't scream mafia but you haven't posted enough helpful things to be confirmed town. You are 20%~30% scum, which doesn't mean anything. If the votes go towards you, I have no problem letting them go through because I don't think you're confirmed town like some other people. If they don't, that's fine too, I think Wave is a bigger threat (for reasons listed multiple times). I am not flipping on things. My opinions have formed slowly and changed slowly, and I have been outspoken and honest about it every step of the way. Ignoring that and trying to utilize misinformation makes you look bad, and I'd rather not have to pursue you. As an aside, I'm removing my vote from ketchup since, as I said before, I don't think he's scum and I just jumped on him because he was on my case. I hope this reasoning is clear enough that it can be referenced in the future without someone twisting my actions to try and draw attention off of themselves.##unvote That last paragraph is what's called an OMGUS vote, and it is a huge scumtell. I didn't even know that was a thing. Ok, I guess it's a scummy move for someone who's played mafia for however many games, but you can clearly read the exchange between us (which was taking place at 1 in the morning) and realize my frustration. If not, then you can continue to ignore the evidence that is literally written down. Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:00 Cixah wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:56 Cixah wrote:
Dandel if you get a chance can we get an updated vote soon?
Soniv is pushing heavy to get everything off him, which is good. However everything said by him does nothing but deflect attention for me. If Req is really your scum read soniv, What Committal opinon do you have on Req?
Req isn't helping matters but I still have no reason to distrust him yet. I Like his position less and less especially over the last 4 hours but he's still town to me. Req, you need to find something to you can stand on, and soon otherwise I think you swing soon. I don't quite know what you're asking here. Could you clarify? You keep stating that he's deflecting the question that has him pinned on Scum. Which question are you refering to and How does NOT answering it or giving a STRAIGHT answer make him scum? I'm sorry, I'm still not really following. Everyone seems to have an opinion on me except Req. When asked directly, sure he has stuck with his "I have no real read on him" position - but I find that unacceptable when everyone else seems to want me dead. He's actively avoiding a bandwagon without coming out and saying that I'm town. If I said you were town, it doesn't matter because it likely wouldn't dissuade people from riding your case given my bad reads and lack of conviction compared to theirs. If I said you were scum, people would accuse me of just jumping on the bandwagon given that I did not have that read on you previously. So I stuck to my guns and gave an honest opinion - that is, I don't know if you are either right now and I don't think I need to be forced to say.My game does not revolve around you. You're just one out of eleven. Trying to force suspicion onto me is not going to get the votes off of you.
This is scum mentality. You're concerned about looking guilty - townies should never be worried about looking guilty, they're there to find the reds. They're there to stick their necks out and see what's up. You're working hard to not stick your neck out.
Your game might not revolve around me, but right now, the thread is revolving around the case on me. So many people want me dead. Overwhelmingly so that people, Wave especially, should be able to tell that no one is in my corner. Once again, I state - this is why LT is dead. He was the only one who realized that I was town. Someone mentioned to look at his last post, and it says "if unsure, a Wave or Soniv vote works D2". However, I am where everyone's focus went immediately, and what's happening right now is a bandwagon through and through. And you can bet your ass that scum are happy it's happening.
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On October 15 2014 02:49 mordek wrote:
Man this game just messes with your head. I think town needs to start voting and playing it out from there?
Soniv, I just haven't felt convinced otherwise.
##Vote jcarlsoniv
Na, I think most people already voted by now? Plus it's only the first part of the day, and if Day 1 is to be trusted the game gets much more heated in the last ~6 hours. There's still time to discuss things (that doesn't mean "it's fine if you don't have ideas for now", just that it's not do-or-die time yet).
Which brings me to Soniv's behaviour, which surprised me a bit. You're not defending yourself at all, and apart from the last few posts (I'll come back to that) you actually pretty much ignore the attacks against you to discuss other people.
Now I'm not saying it's inherently bad, I just gave it some thought and came up with a few possibilities:
- you're resigned to your lynch (see last post and your "everybody seems to want me dead"). That would be pretty scummy as I figure a townie would fight to the end to try to at least force discussion and get information out for everyone to read, even if he's doomed. On the other hand I find it likely because as said it's too early in the day to bury you, and I believe yout o be tougher than that.
- you're disinterested and don't care if you die. Nope. No chance in Hell.
- you're not upset because you know it's early in the day and that things are as likely to swing during the next 24 hours (It's Mafia! Maybe we'll end up lynching ketchup today!). You know focusing on defending yourself would only may you look worse and you don't find that case on yourself that strong anyway.
I'm leaning for the 3rd one just because you're a vet, but maybe I'm missing something. Care to tell?
On October 15 2014 03:15 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:09 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:48 Requizen wrote:@Soniv Did you purposefully ignore the post I made about you 5 posts after that? On October 14 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
I don't know on Soniv. Again, like Alz, his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean. I like how he was on MB from early and stuck with it, so he wasn't really flip-floppy. Even if it was wrong, I like how he put down a feeling and then stuck with it rather that throwing his vote wherever.
But, his discussions (while moving the thread along), rarely give any of his own opinions. Other than his read on MB and an early read list, most of it is just talking about other player's reads until the end of the day rolled around. This doesn't scream scum to me, but it's very observer-like and lurky. Being around, talking without really drawing attention or saying anything that jumps can be a very effective stealth tool. Like ketchup, you are "reading my filter" but ignoring the posts that make you look incorrect. My reads at this point should be disregarded. My vote D1 was not wasted, because it would not have affected the end result of MB's lynch one way or another. Is there a particular reason you and ketchup are both taking the same steps to paint me in a bad light? Because we're noticing the same things? I didn't ignore that post, it only reinforces my point - you aren't giving a read on me. "his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean" "this doesn't scream scum to me". These are very non-committal opinions. You want my opinion? You look scummy as fuck. Moreso than Coma. ##unvote
##vote Requizen You blatantly left it out of your "in depth investigation" to make me look like worse. I haven't changed that stance. I don't have a good read on you. My instincts don't scream mafia but you haven't posted enough helpful things to be confirmed town. You are 20%~30% scum, which doesn't mean anything. If the votes go towards you, I have no problem letting them go through because I don't think you're confirmed town like some other people. If they don't, that's fine too, I think Wave is a bigger threat (for reasons listed multiple times). I am not flipping on things. My opinions have formed slowly and changed slowly, and I have been outspoken and honest about it every step of the way. Ignoring that and trying to utilize misinformation makes you look bad, and I'd rather not have to pursue you. As an aside, I'm removing my vote from ketchup since, as I said before, I don't think he's scum and I just jumped on him because he was on my case. I hope this reasoning is clear enough that it can be referenced in the future without someone twisting my actions to try and draw attention off of themselves.##unvote That last paragraph is what's called an OMGUS vote, and it is a huge scumtell. I didn't even know that was a thing. Ok, I guess it's a scummy move for someone who's played mafia for however many games, but you can clearly read the exchange between us (which was taking place at 1 in the morning) and realize my frustration. If not, then you can continue to ignore the evidence that is literally written down.
Thing is, Req, Mafia is a game of bluff (till we can pull an Asmo and peg people on their votes with pre/post-flips).
If you act impulsive you likely don't help town, so it's not a good move.
Also, the whole "you can clearly (...) realise my frustration" doesn't work either, because imagine you're being pressured. Do you think it's easier for someone calm to fake frustration, or for someone stressed to pretend to remain calm and feel the pressure at all?
Anyone can pretend to act irrationally against an attack (eg. frustration, annoyance, etc. like Wave did earlier) and use that to excuse their behaviour without presenting a well-mounted defense. Shove aside a good case that puts you in real danger of getting lynched is harder though, and us townies shouldn't be as pressured because, unless blue, being prepared to sacrifice ourselves for the town is par for the course. Obviously in a newbie game it doesn't hold as much, but that's why "frustrated/annoyed" responses have often been met by skepticism so far.
Tolkien didn't go "fine" because people he attacked yelled at him, but because their retort included content, that he felt satisfied about.
Basically (and from the impression the vets gave me) a lot of play isn't scummy so much as it is not-town play that is easily fakable and as such a potentiel scum hideout/tactic.
I won't doubt Cixah telling me he's frustrated because he's confirmed townie. Someone else may just be scum faking it to try and stall.
(I'm not accusing you, just trying to explain. I think I've been pretty lenient in this regard so far, because I hadn't considered it from the start till Wave got pressured, and because I'm as experience (and as such not confident) in reading through these as ketchup thinks I am.
I do think your frustration was genuine too, because it lines up well with your character.)
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On October 15 2014 03:39 Alaric wrote:
- you're resigned to your lynch (see last post and your "everybody seems to want me dead"). That would be pretty scummy as I figure a townie would fight to the end to try to at least force discussion and get information out for everyone to read, even if he's doomed. On the other hand I find it unlikely because as said it's too early in the day to bury you, and I believe you to be tougher than that.
Fuck.
Also your last post actually seems to be trying to shake things up. I thought you just wanted Requizen to talk more and provide content but you know have a scum read on him?
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Also "not as experienced" as ketchup thinks I am. Man this post...
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On October 15 2014 03:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:16 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 03:15 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 03:09 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:48 Requizen wrote:@Soniv Did you purposefully ignore the post I made about you 5 posts after that? On October 14 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
I don't know on Soniv. Again, like Alz, his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean. I like how he was on MB from early and stuck with it, so he wasn't really flip-floppy. Even if it was wrong, I like how he put down a feeling and then stuck with it rather that throwing his vote wherever.
But, his discussions (while moving the thread along), rarely give any of his own opinions. Other than his read on MB and an early read list, most of it is just talking about other player's reads until the end of the day rolled around. This doesn't scream scum to me, but it's very observer-like and lurky. Being around, talking without really drawing attention or saying anything that jumps can be a very effective stealth tool. Like ketchup, you are "reading my filter" but ignoring the posts that make you look incorrect. My reads at this point should be disregarded. My vote D1 was not wasted, because it would not have affected the end result of MB's lynch one way or another. Is there a particular reason you and ketchup are both taking the same steps to paint me in a bad light? Because we're noticing the same things? I didn't ignore that post, it only reinforces my point - you aren't giving a read on me. "his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean" "this doesn't scream scum to me". These are very non-committal opinions. You want my opinion? You look scummy as fuck. Moreso than Coma. ##unvote
##vote Requizen You blatantly left it out of your "in depth investigation" to make me look like worse. I haven't changed that stance. I don't have a good read on you. My instincts don't scream mafia but you haven't posted enough helpful things to be confirmed town. You are 20%~30% scum, which doesn't mean anything. If the votes go towards you, I have no problem letting them go through because I don't think you're confirmed town like some other people. If they don't, that's fine too, I think Wave is a bigger threat (for reasons listed multiple times). I am not flipping on things. My opinions have formed slowly and changed slowly, and I have been outspoken and honest about it every step of the way. Ignoring that and trying to utilize misinformation makes you look bad, and I'd rather not have to pursue you. As an aside, I'm removing my vote from ketchup since, as I said before, I don't think he's scum and I just jumped on him because he was on my case. I hope this reasoning is clear enough that it can be referenced in the future without someone twisting my actions to try and draw attention off of themselves.##unvote That last paragraph is what's called an OMGUS vote, and it is a huge scumtell. I didn't even know that was a thing. Ok, I guess it's a scummy move for someone who's played mafia for however many games, but you can clearly read the exchange between us (which was taking place at 1 in the morning) and realize my frustration. If not, then you can continue to ignore the evidence that is literally written down. On October 15 2014 03:00 Cixah wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:56 Cixah wrote:
Dandel if you get a chance can we get an updated vote soon?
Soniv is pushing heavy to get everything off him, which is good. However everything said by him does nothing but deflect attention for me. If Req is really your scum read soniv, What Committal opinon do you have on Req?
Req isn't helping matters but I still have no reason to distrust him yet. I Like his position less and less especially over the last 4 hours but he's still town to me. Req, you need to find something to you can stand on, and soon otherwise I think you swing soon. I don't quite know what you're asking here. Could you clarify? You keep stating that he's deflecting the question that has him pinned on Scum. Which question are you refering to and How does NOT answering it or giving a STRAIGHT answer make him scum? I'm sorry, I'm still not really following. Everyone seems to have an opinion on me except Req. When asked directly, sure he has stuck with his "I have no real read on him" position - but I find that unacceptable when everyone else seems to want me dead. He's actively avoiding a bandwagon without coming out and saying that I'm town. If I said you were town, it doesn't matter because it likely wouldn't dissuade people from riding your case given my bad reads and lack of conviction compared to theirs. If I said you were scum, people would accuse me of just jumping on the bandwagon given that I did not have that read on you previously. So I stuck to my guns and gave an honest opinion - that is, I don't know if you are either right now and I don't think I need to be forced to say. My game does not revolve around you. You're just one out of eleven. Trying to force suspicion onto me is not going to get the votes off of you. By the by, you voting for me is also pretty well a OMGUS vote, since you just voted for me because you are upset that I didn't answer you the way you wanted to be answered. And, in your own words, it is a huge scumtell. Yeah...that's not how OMGUS works. You voted ketchup because he started pressing you and asking questions. In your words "he was on your case". I'm voting you because in the face of several cases on me, and despite saying you'd dive into my filter, you're still null on me. What you did is OMGUS, what I did is vote someone that I think is scum. You literally have just admitted that you avoided saying I'm scum because you didn't want to be accused of bandwagoning. + Show Spoiler +On October 15 2014 03:15 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:09 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:48 Requizen wrote:@Soniv Did you purposefully ignore the post I made about you 5 posts after that? On October 14 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
I don't know on Soniv. Again, like Alz, his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean. I like how he was on MB from early and stuck with it, so he wasn't really flip-floppy. Even if it was wrong, I like how he put down a feeling and then stuck with it rather that throwing his vote wherever.
But, his discussions (while moving the thread along), rarely give any of his own opinions. Other than his read on MB and an early read list, most of it is just talking about other player's reads until the end of the day rolled around. This doesn't scream scum to me, but it's very observer-like and lurky. Being around, talking without really drawing attention or saying anything that jumps can be a very effective stealth tool. Like ketchup, you are "reading my filter" but ignoring the posts that make you look incorrect. My reads at this point should be disregarded. My vote D1 was not wasted, because it would not have affected the end result of MB's lynch one way or another. Is there a particular reason you and ketchup are both taking the same steps to paint me in a bad light? Because we're noticing the same things? I didn't ignore that post, it only reinforces my point - you aren't giving a read on me. "his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean" "this doesn't scream scum to me". These are very non-committal opinions. You want my opinion? You look scummy as fuck. Moreso than Coma. ##unvote
##vote Requizen You blatantly left it out of your "in depth investigation" to make me look like worse. I haven't changed that stance. I don't have a good read on you. My instincts don't scream mafia but you haven't posted enough helpful things to be confirmed town. You are 20%~30% scum, which doesn't mean anything. If the votes go towards you, I have no problem letting them go through because I don't think you're confirmed town like some other people. If they don't, that's fine too, I think Wave is a bigger threat (for reasons listed multiple times). I am not flipping on things. My opinions have formed slowly and changed slowly, and I have been outspoken and honest about it every step of the way. Ignoring that and trying to utilize misinformation makes you look bad, and I'd rather not have to pursue you. As an aside, I'm removing my vote from ketchup since, as I said before, I don't think he's scum and I just jumped on him because he was on my case. I hope this reasoning is clear enough that it can be referenced in the future without someone twisting my actions to try and draw attention off of themselves.##unvote That last paragraph is what's called an OMGUS vote, and it is a huge scumtell. I didn't even know that was a thing. Ok, I guess it's a scummy move for someone who's played mafia for however many games, but you can clearly read the exchange between us (which was taking place at 1 in the morning) and realize my frustration. If not, then you can continue to ignore the evidence that is literally written down. Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:00 Cixah wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:56 Cixah wrote:
Dandel if you get a chance can we get an updated vote soon?
Soniv is pushing heavy to get everything off him, which is good. However everything said by him does nothing but deflect attention for me. If Req is really your scum read soniv, What Committal opinon do you have on Req?
Req isn't helping matters but I still have no reason to distrust him yet. I Like his position less and less especially over the last 4 hours but he's still town to me. Req, you need to find something to you can stand on, and soon otherwise I think you swing soon. I don't quite know what you're asking here. Could you clarify? You keep stating that he's deflecting the question that has him pinned on Scum. Which question are you refering to and How does NOT answering it or giving a STRAIGHT answer make him scum? I'm sorry, I'm still not really following. Everyone seems to have an opinion on me except Req. When asked directly, sure he has stuck with his "I have no real read on him" position - but I find that unacceptable when everyone else seems to want me dead. He's actively avoiding a bandwagon without coming out and saying that I'm town. If I said you were town, it doesn't matter because it likely wouldn't dissuade people from riding your case given my bad reads and lack of conviction compared to theirs. If I said you were scum, people would accuse me of just jumping on the bandwagon given that I did not have that read on you previously. So I stuck to my guns and gave an honest opinion - that is, I don't know if you are either right now and I don't think I need to be forced to say.My game does not revolve around you. You're just one out of eleven. Trying to force suspicion onto me is not going to get the votes off of you. This is scum mentality. You're concerned about looking guilty - townies should never be worried about looking guilty, they're there to find the reds. They're there to stick their necks out and see what's up. You're working hard to not stick your neck out. Your game might not revolve around me, but right now, the thread is revolving around the case on me. So many people want me dead. Overwhelmingly so that people, Wave especially, should be able to tell that no one is in my corner. Once again, I state - this is why LT is dead. He was the only one who realized that I was town. Someone mentioned to look at his last post, and it says "if unsure, a Wave or Soniv vote works D2". However, I am where everyone's focus went immediately, and what's happening right now is a bandwagon through and through. And you can bet your ass that scum are happy it's happening.
Just because I don't have a strong opinion on you, I'm scum. That is the entirety of your whole argument. That the shittiest reasoning I've seen in a long time, and I used to read GD. If you really are town and want to get the votes off of you, you should explain your own actions rather than make me repeat myself for the, what, fifth time?
All you're doing is making me think you're more scum. This isn't bandwagoning (as you can clearly see from this entire exchange, I've remained very neutral up until this point), this is me looking at your actions (blame shifting, misinformation, fearmongering) and seeing you turn red. Whether that's just a townie screaming at nothing until his face turns purple or a desperate mafia, I don't know.
However, nothing is gained by me putting my vote on you right now. You already have enough of those to deal with.
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On October 15 2014 03:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Once again, I state - this is why LT is dead. He was the only one who realized that I was town. Someone mentioned to look at his last post, and it says "if unsure, a Wave or Soniv vote works D2". However, I am where everyone's focus went immediately, and what's happening right now is a bandwagon through and through. And you can bet your ass that scum are happy it's happening.
I'll grant you that LT wasn't outright calling for your lynch, but he definitely didn't "realize you were town", he was pretty suspicious of you.
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On October 15 2014 03:47 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Once again, I state - this is why LT is dead. He was the only one who realized that I was town. Someone mentioned to look at his last post, and it says "if unsure, a Wave or Soniv vote works D2". However, I am where everyone's focus went immediately, and what's happening right now is a bandwagon through and through. And you can bet your ass that scum are happy it's happening. I'll grant you that LT wasn't outright calling for your lynch, but he definitely didn't "realize you were town", he was pretty suspicious of you.
That's not true. LordT said Soniv was mostly cleared in his eyes because he was running the MB train into the ground, which LordT viewed as bad scum play.
However, the words of a dead man, no matter how innocent he turned out to be, aren't all truth.
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On October 15 2014 03:47 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Once again, I state - this is why LT is dead. He was the only one who realized that I was town. Someone mentioned to look at his last post, and it says "if unsure, a Wave or Soniv vote works D2". However, I am where everyone's focus went immediately, and what's happening right now is a bandwagon through and through. And you can bet your ass that scum are happy it's happening. I'll grant you that LT wasn't outright calling for your lynch, but he definitely didn't "realize you were town", he was pretty suspicious of you.
On October 14 2014 01:53 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Ahahaha. Req thinks I'm scum.
I wouldnt have a problem with it if the reasoning wasn't so bad. Your picking up on traits which are the EXACT OPPOSITE of what scum wants to do.
lol
Town can't change their minds? Pls.
And really, how are we to read your day one when you spent the entire time moaning then playing the newb card?
I applaud the effort, though the reasoning is poor at best. After analyzing the votecount and general player atmosphere, i figured i needed to steer town off of what was most likely town. And not waste a d1 lynch COUGH COUGH.
Still wouldnt lynch wave or soniv tomorrow.
Also, i take it back. Vigi should shoot today.
On October 14 2014 02:18 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Also Coma. Pls. Soniv is cleared for his push onto MB.
On October 14 2014 03:58 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 03:55 ComaDose wrote:On October 14 2014 02:18 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Also Coma. Pls. Soniv is cleared for his push onto MB. can you tell me what i miss as to why? is it because he just stuck with his original gut feeling? you were on again off again on the moonbear train too. and it seems like for the most part you and soniv only have good things to say about each other. i.e. soniv desregarding scummy reads on you and you saying he is clear now. Can you explain more? Soniv pushed the MB train hard. Scum usually don't want the attention early for pushing a town mislynch D1. Much better to look at the people following the train and sheeping.
@Alaric - I'm not sure how you would expect/want me to defend myself (other than defending my actions - though I've already explained that I was playing D1 under the impression that MB would flip red), but the best way I know how is to find scum myself, because clearly you guys aren't going to do it. (I know you gave your speculation of 3 options, but I'm running off to another meeting).
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Na, that's fine by me, and a reasoning I can get behind. Doesn't mean you're cleared of current suspicions obviously (and saying you expected Moonbear to flip red can be another way of saying "As scum I decided that Moonbear would make a good mislynch"), but you're not worsening your position with this.
I don't have my vote on you because we're looking for 3+ scum and you already have enough on your plate, but I've been pretty honest about Asmo's compelling case on you I think.
Gotta go back and reread on Coma's explanations.
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Those are things he said earlier in the day. His last post was this:
On October 14 2014 08:14 Lord Tolkien wrote:
At work still so this EoN post will be much shorter than what i normally spew out.
1) fking jeff. Im extremely unhappy he's still afk lurking. This isnt making you seem more town you know, and now im really getting serious about tunneling you. If Req can put in effort so can you.
2) Soniv or Wave wagon fine if questionable for d2. Should still press other options.
3) Again, depending on what alignment you think jeff is, examine the votecount. if jeffs scum in your eyes, scum is more likely on the MB wagon. If town, they're likely anywhere, but probably were idling on non-votes. The MB counterpush at EoD was pretty palpable.
4) lots of people will be reevaluated when i get home. Highly doubt ill get shot lol. If so, lelscum.
5) snip
His opinion changed as dawn got closer. You aren't cleared if lynching you is "fine".
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Interestingly the people that joined the bandwagon to lynch me, like alaric and req, are at odds with soniv now making me feel like there is nothing to learn about mafia following soniv from that exchange. especially because neither of them voted for moonbear day 1.
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Still in the midst of catching up but Req you're playing like shit again.
Shape up. You have me as your number one scumread again all of a sudden? Like wtf is that? Refusing to look into other people in more detail, ragevoting ketchup?
I dunno for those who think Req is scum consider that people thought MB was scum for faking newbie shit too...I think this may be a game where the newbies actually are just that. If req has been faking some of this stuff he's been doing a fucking masterful job imo, and you're discounting a lot of the effort he HAS put in when it was relevant.
Or of course it could just be the people voting for him are scum or something. 
FInishing my read.
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Soniv the best thing you can do right now if you're town is do what you haven't done in like fucking ages.
Provide some reads.
HELP OUT THE TOWN in some way.
If you die and flip green this way we'll have a whole bunch to work with
Your vote/case on Req doesn't help you much in my eyes. There are a lot of people in this game still, and I have no idea what you think about most of them.
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On October 15 2014 04:09 WaveofShadow wrote:Still in the midst of catching up but Req you're playing like shit again. Shape up. You have me as your number one scumread again all of a sudden? Like wtf is that? Refusing to look into other people in more detail, ragevoting ketchup? I dunno for those who think Req is scum consider that people thought MB was scum for faking newbie shit too...I think this may be a game where the newbies actually are just that. If req has been faking some of this stuff he's been doing a fucking masterful job imo, and you're discounting a lot of the effort he HAS put in when it was relevant. Or of course it could just be the people voting for him are scum or something. FInishing my read.
I'm playing the game the best way I think it should be played. If my play is deteriorating it's just because I'm tired of everyone constantly telling me I'm shit and that everything that comes out of my mouth is wrong. If that's the case, then I'll just stop posting and jump on whatever bandwagon is strongest, because clearly I'm always wrong and it annoys people to read my posts.
You were always my #1 scumread (tied with LordT). I said it D1, I said it N1, and I confirmed it multiple times today. It hasn't changed. Once it does I'll say something. I never said anything to the contrary, so why would you ever say "wtf" to that?
I'm not refusing to look into people. I gave my reviews of other people during N1, I think I got everyone but I might have forgotten a couple. If so, tell me and I will look into them.
I ragevoted ketchup but who gives a fuck, it literally hurts no one.
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Oh and hey everyone!
On October 14 2014 13:33 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I'll hold my tongue on this for a few minutes, I think.
On October 14 2014 14:03 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I see Wave and Soniv as sort of opposites right now. They represent two schools of suspicion for me, and that means I don't think both of them are scum or town. I could also see Asmo or Req as scum, but I couldn't see Asmo as scum with Soniv. Wave and Req as both scum would mean that their exchanges were the results of deep coordination, which I don't buy from a first-time Requizen.
Right now my suspicion is leaning less off of Wave.
Also, upon thinking more, I'm pretty confident Req is innocent. I can't see him being Mafia with either Soniv nor Wave right now, and I think one of those two is scum.
On October 14 2014 14:05 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
AKA I want to vote Soniv right now, but something is holding me back.
On October 15 2014 00:14 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
He's not stepping up at all. He hasn't provided much of anything other than a vote he knows will keep certain people off his back. "I think the suspicious guy is suspicious."
I don't think this makes him scum, but he needs to work more for that.
Look at all these hard stances Jeff has taken today! He sure seems confident enough to make a call and tell us who his scumreads are!
People know where I stand at this point. Everyone seems to be willing to give Asmo more time based on his earlier posting, that's fine with me for now. One of Soniv/Jeff is going down today and I will be keeping this pressure up. It's early yet but just know that you people will have to make a decision between the two of them today in all likelihood.
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I would be willing to move my vote from soniv to ghandi. Those are both my top picks.
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On October 15 2014 04:19 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 04:09 WaveofShadow wrote:Still in the midst of catching up but Req you're playing like shit again. Shape up. You have me as your number one scumread again all of a sudden? Like wtf is that? Refusing to look into other people in more detail, ragevoting ketchup? I dunno for those who think Req is scum consider that people thought MB was scum for faking newbie shit too...I think this may be a game where the newbies actually are just that. If req has been faking some of this stuff he's been doing a fucking masterful job imo, and you're discounting a lot of the effort he HAS put in when it was relevant. Or of course it could just be the people voting for him are scum or something. FInishing my read. I'm playing the game the best way I think it should be played. If my play is deteriorating it's just because I'm tired of everyone constantly telling me I'm shit and that everything that comes out of my mouth is wrong. If that's the case, then I'll just stop posting and jump on whatever bandwagon is strongest, because clearly I'm always wrong and it annoys people to read my posts. You were always my #1 scumread (tied with LordT). I said it D1, I said it N1, and I confirmed it multiple times today. It hasn't changed. Once it does I'll say something. I never said anything to the contrary, so why would you ever say "wtf" to that? I'm not refusing to look into people. I gave my reviews of other people during N1, I think I got everyone but I might have forgotten a couple. If so, tell me and I will look into them. I ragevoted ketchup but who gives a fuck, it literally hurts no one.
Yeah and you also said yourself you're shitty at reads.
You haven't gone back and updated your thoughts on me at all since like yesterday, and you STILL think the reason I'm scum is that I am manipulating everybody all game? Like how in the fuck would I be able to get away with that forever?
Req now is not the time to shut down, especially in the face of shitty pressure. It's your first game, you're bound to be wrong about a lot of stuff. Look at 6ah for example 
Just play the game, you were doing fine yesterday, keep that up.
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On October 15 2014 04:24 mordek wrote:
I would be willing to move my vote from soniv to ghandi. Those are both my top picks.
You sir, are very lucky I think you're town because as far as I remember both you and owb have been doing nothing but parroting me all game.
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EPT
