EPT[I] TLLOLOTGDTM - Page 46
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On October 14 2014 02:28 mordek wrote: We're looking for scum, where was the confusion? The difference between looking for 3 and 4 scum is a huge thing. I try to draw connections between players, and so the number matters. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Drawing connections before you see any flip often leads to confirmation bias. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Feeling: Unknown/low scum likelyhood Posting Habits: Normal? I like mordek's posts so far. He posts his feelings without pushing too hard on people, and has been helpful for new players. This could be a play on scum!mordek's part to get on people's good side, or he could just be a good sport. Or he could be town and just doing his thing. I liked his reads and he didn't sow much or any discord in his D1. He's low on the watchlist. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On October 14 2014 02:27 ketchup wrote: It matters to me a lot because it means a lot to me to know what I am looking for. Ill repeat. 3 scum max in a newbie setup with 14. Maybe a 3p with lots of town power roles. Which i find highly unlikely in a newbie game. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On October 14 2014 02:32 WaveofShadow wrote: It actually shouldn't matter much this early. Drawing connections before you see any flip often leads to confirmation bias. Also yes. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 14 2014 02:25 mordek wrote: Why are we talking about different games and numbers? This sounds like scum activity. Nah it's actually pretty important. If there was 4 scum instead of 3 it would completely change the way we could start looking at scum relationships. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Feeling: Town Posting Habits: Reasonable Asmo's posts give me a green vibe. I'm not trusting him yet, but I in no way have a bad feeling from him. Yes, he voted for MB, but he made that call very early and gave reasoning for it before the train began running. I have not agreed with every call he's made (for example, his aggression towards AFKers and his tirade against Jeff), but I think he's more town and anything. The only thing that stands out to me is his post after MB flipped green - the anger and regretfulness is in line with his normal posting style, but it only feels a little too forward, as if Mafia!Asmo is trying to force sounding regretful about his decision. But then, I've started to feel a bit mistrustful of any post that isn't strictly productive towards saving the town. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
On October 14 2014 03:04 onlywonderboy wrote: Nah it's actually pretty important. If there was 4 scum instead of 3 it would completely change the way we could start looking at scum relationships. It's not important right now. This tells us nothing of who are next lynch target should be me. We really should stop talking about it. Personally I think all this conversation does is give scum an opportunity to act ignorant of their numbers. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
Also, I REPEAT, 3 scum, maybe 1 3p. Just look at every newbie game role list ffs. 13 player setups: 3 scum. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST Also Req I'm going to go ahead and say while it's nice that you're getting your reads out, it isn't strictly helpful to town to be vomiting everything all at once. Should be focusing specifically on who is scum and why as that is our job---if someone you think is town gets attacked then you can describe why you disagree and whatnot to prevent mislynching. Focus is key. Just my two cents. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
At the moment, the number of scum is greater than 0. We kill them one at a time until Dandel says that we got them all. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 14 2014 03:10 mordek wrote: It's not important right now. This tells us nothing of who are next lynch target should be me. We really should stop talking about it. Personally I think all this conversation does is give scum an opportunity to act ignorant of their numbers. Well we're still in the night phase so depending on who dies a lot can change in regards to who the next lynch target should be. Obviously there's still value in some discussion, but I think you're overreacting to this being a scum play. I'd rather have it sorted out now that later personally. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 14 2014 03:14 WaveofShadow wrote: MORDEK SCUMSLIP YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST Also Req I'm going to go ahead and say while it's nice that you're getting your reads out, it isn't strictly helpful to town to be vomiting everything all at once. Should be focusing specifically on who is scum and why as that is our job---if someone you think is town gets attacked then you can describe why you disagree and whatnot to prevent mislynching. Focus is key. Just my two cents. As I said before, I'd rather have all cards on the table from everyone. If someone gets shot/poisoned tonight and their correct read goes unposted, then that hurts the town. For example, I said that I think mordek is town. If I die tonight, but am right that he's not scum, I hope that my posts can help narrow down who is. You're correct in that the converse is more focused and just as important - if someone dies, that means their scumreads may be accurate and will cause an investigation. But the opposite is just as important. That said, scum can also just choose to kill someone who thinks that they are town, to draw suspicion away. That's why giving reasoning why you don't think someone is scum is just as important - so someone who disagrees with you can still investigate. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Again, not telling you not to post reads, but just try to realize why and also WHEN things are important. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 14 2014 03:19 Requizen wrote: As I said before, I'd rather have all cards on the table from everyone. If someone gets shot/poisoned tonight and their correct read goes unposted, then that hurts the town. For example, I said that I think mordek is town. If I die tonight, but am right that he's not scum, I hope that my posts can help narrow down who is. You're correct in that the converse is more focused and just as important - if someone dies, that means their scumreads may be accurate and will cause an investigation. But the opposite is just as important. That said, scum can also just choose to kill someone who thinks that they are town, to draw suspicion away. That's why giving reasoning why you don't think someone is scum is just as important - so someone who disagrees with you can still investigate. Vomiting all your reads, especially as you are doing, really isn't helpful though. Sure, it's important to know where peoples' reads lie. But something like what you're doing would be more important for someone who had concern of being shot tonight, and had some really important read/case to get out there before he thinks he's going to die. I'm glad you're putting time in to formulate reads, but I wish it had a bit more direction. I'd love to know your #1 scum read. You've given several reads so far, but most of them are pretty null. The only one you're really leaning scum on is Alaric, which is someone who's fairly widely considered townie. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
I know who his scum reads are. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also you guys keep posting stuff I'd find interesting to discuss but if I keep my detailed reads for after the night actions I don't want to clutter the thread with low-content. T_T On October 14 2014 02:14 mordek wrote: Man I almost posted saying I think I've changed my mind on LT and then he goes and posts like this again. It's discouraging. Eh.  They're confusing me too but I'm thinking that this and the fact both are vets are related. They're just pushing more aggressively than us (or if they're scum, faking town behaviour better than us) but I assume that's how you're actually supposed to play Mafia. Reading between the personal attacks, they seem to say the same thing to each other, eg. "I think we're both town, but you're so bad at giving town a direction, and noone listens to me. I wish they listened to me.", Tolkien being more aggressive about it and Wave more "tired". It sends my paranoia trigger flying, but on the other hand it makes both of them focal because if you pay attention, they're both leading the game indirectly, there's so much discussion either about them, or about topics they started (sparking the question "how much of it is intentional?"). I think I'll get a much better feel for the whole game if I can settle on trusting (or not) one of them. "They make good practice for training one's critical thinking in Mafia", or something like that. Also part of why night actions are important. (This is probably a meta read on the game itself more than them as townie/scum, but since they seem to eat up so much discussion I thought I'd clarify that. I think observing them is fine for us non-vets. But going back to discussing their antagonism again and again is bad, esp. because I think we'll have trouble sorting it out quickly.) As for how you feel about the game, and especially your "the opinion of the majority affects me",+ Show Spoiler [lengthy shit] + I don't think you should worry too much. If anything, look at how much more aggressive Wave has been when he's pressing someone, compared to how he's in offtopic GD even when he's angry. It's just the game, and part of it is obviously to try and get into people's head: since we're on a clock as town (even a 48 hours one), the easiest way to do that is to shove people. There's no ill will behind it as "what's in the game stays in the game" as Wave reminded at the start. Tolkien's been really trolly and that surprised me but I won't draw conclusions about how he outside this game from that. Take it as "fake opinions" you can as such dismiss if you will. See Req, who's been sensitive and sometimes even hot-headed on some topics in the past, I was wondering how he'd handle the pression and aggression* (he gives me the impression that shoving him/trolling him in general would get old very fast and he'd have a short temper for that), and he appeared defensive day 1, and disgruntled because he didn't grasp what was going on well enough for his liking. Since he's had time to look around his posting has very much improved, I think because he got a feeling for how Mafia works (and that Tolkien's condescending trolling shouldn't be taken personally) and he's applied himself to it as, well, just a game. (Which fits how I expected him to approach Mafia's concept; and I like what I'm seeing from him so far.) * btw, someone mentioned how "pregame TS" could be scum-lingo for Soniv and Wave. They did it after I expressed my "worries" for Req's handling of the atmosphere in a very early post, I don't think they're anything to read there. They just both wondered the same and talked about it since at the core the goal is for everyone to have fun. Final point (and after that I think I'll wait for night actions because that's already lengthy "emptiness"), about Cixah and the Innocent Child: there's no need to protect him because you only hold power as long as scum doesn't know what you are. You're effectively VT (eg. VT, vigi or poisoner who already used his power, etc.)? You're ignorable (unless you're pinning every scum down accurately obv.) You're blue? Kill kill kill! That's why Cixah as innocent child could be very aggressive if he wanted to, knowing he could always claim Innocent Child if he risked getting lynched, and if scum kills him, then scum doesn't kill a blue, so it's beneficial to town. Now that he's outed, he can still be aggressive though, because we know we can believe his intentions, and scum would rather not lynch him anymore since they're rather fish for blues (I'm not sure about that, I thought scum would target accurate readers first but apparently the vets said scum would value blue kills a lot). eg. since scum shouldn't want to kill him (not because he's an innocent child, but because now they know he's an innocent child) it's not interesting to protect him. Or at least that's how I understood it. | ||
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