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On October 12 2014 04:58 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 04:48 Cixah wrote:On October 12 2014 04:34 Alzadar wrote:On October 12 2014 04:25 Lord Tolkien wrote:On October 12 2014 04:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
lol. MB see my post directed at Req above.
Why the fuck does Alzadar's 'look how many games so and so have played' shit list keep popping up?
I honestly can't believe anyone at all thought it had any use whatsoever. It was also wrong. Clearly had a 67% margin of error at least. Numbers taken straight from the database in this subforum, I just looked them up. They may be inaccurate, but the point wasn't fine precision number of games. Still nothing from Cixah to shake my scum feeling. He's just repeating things Wave said, trying to look constructive while adding nothing. So tentatively... ##Vote: Cixah 40 minute drive home op. I'm role claiming. Innocent Child While this doesn't have really any effect unless you buy into it and let me live until morning That's your call. Can we talk about this? Given that he's the current lynch candidate, it's either a gambit as Mafia Vigilante/Poisoner to get off his kill or he's telling the truth. I assume, Cixah, that you'll have this confirmed for day 2? I think we can be sure there aren't TWO innocent children, so I'm willing to believe Cixah on this unless someone else comes forward as Innoncent Child. Of course, there could be no Child at all and we'd be letting Cixah bluff his way into blowing one of our brains out.
I will 100% confirm this on Day 2 should I survive the night.
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Cixah the mafia doesnt care about innocent child, so they have a smaller pool of potential threats to choose from.
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Is that an early role call before the deadline? If you're really innocent don't you just try to make your case? Cixah could've just as easily said "I'm role claiming: Vanilla Town", right?
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On October 12 2014 04:58 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 04:55 WaveofShadow wrote:
Jeff you're hereby ignored until you post something of substance.
Except for voting posts that is, and while you're not my #1 priority at this point, keep testing me.
6ah, I'm tempted to /facepalm at that claim because it really doesn't do us a whole lot of good at this point, and makes rolesniping a little easier for scum. I mean unless you really thought you were getting lynched today (not even 24h in..?) It makes it easier for Scum how? I'm actually confused by that from a game play perspective, not from a "WHY DO YOU WANT ME DEAD" perspective.
Because ideally scum want to off blues/threatening presences at night, and now that they know you're not, they can avoid you.
Yes, it's possible this is a scum gambit to throw us off for a day, but I highly doubt you were going to be lynched today (I didn't want you gone thus far) and even if you were it would be terrible scumplay to fakeclaim this early.
I don't want to go any further with this because it's possible scum don't know what the proper what to have done this would be but as of this point 6ah is 99% town. Get your votes off him.
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Ok I may have posted too hastily. If Cixah is another role that we should be worried about as town, he'd only have one night to do whatever it is because he wouldn't be able to confirm the next day. I can't imagine this being worth the risk over just trying to talk people out of voting for him.
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No one believes vanilla town claims. It's also the most common scum claim too, and no one will ever abandon a VT lynch.
The Innocent Child claim was early, but w/e. Find scum elsewhere. Either he'll die at night or he'll be confirmed town. Either way.
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United States33802 Posts
On October 12 2014 04:45 WaveofShadow wrote:
Req I'm telling you right now, I'm not going to spend time arguing with you over how the game should be played and what you should or shouldn't be doing.
You can either contribute in a positive fashion and help the town win (assuming you're town) or you can swing by the neck until you are dead (or possibly be shot..?). Your current demeanor/attitude suggests you'd rather have the latter.
Entirely your choice.
I'm trying to contribute. If you don't like it for whatever asinine reason you came up with then you sound like shame-shifting scum and I hope you die first.
Rude.
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The Innocent claim is stronger because there's only one (surely?), so if you claim it and then there's someone else who claims it you're in shit, whereas nobody can say you're lying about being VT on day 1.
I'm keeping my vote for now until I decide who a better pick is.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
If Cixah is really scum he gets lynched Day 2 so panicking is fine. We shouldn't be trying to lynch him Day 1.
On October 12 2014 04:42 ketchup wrote:
Moonbear's post was fairly terror. I hoped he would provide more. So moonbear, who are your top scum now that you know this game isn't rigged? There's no way only one person is scum to you right now right?
Based purely on nothing but gut feeling (this is Day 1 what is there to base anything on?)
- Alzadar
- Lord Tolkein
- GhandiEAGLE
Maybe Wave but he seems to me more like a jerk who wants to fight everyone than anything else. Idk.
Question: How does it work that there are like 16 roles (3 green, 6 blue, 5 red, 2 black) but 14 people playing?
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RTFM MoonBear. Those are the possible roles, we don't know which are actually in the game.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Right but does that mean we don't really know what roles are actually in the game? So for example is it possible that, say, we have no Medic?
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Yes.
Stop trying to guess setup D1, also. Useless and helps scum more since they know more about the setup.
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Post TL;DR:
+ Show Spoiler +- Yes scum should know each other.
- Neutral toward Wave, leaning town from his last few posts. I believe we shouldn't judge him for making the first move (judging by the content, yes, but not for accusing someone just to make people move.)
- Actually pretty interested in seeing Requizen play the game seriously. Leaning town for now, I want to read his opinion.
- Ghandi wtf are you doing.
--
0K I was thinking "weird than MB wouldn't post yet unless it was busy, from the kind of person he appears to me I think he'd love playing these games as an opportunity to be cheeky and playful", I eat dinner, then bam biggest post so far.
I'm not going to call you scum but the TVTropes link sure would deserve it. Good thing I already knew that one.
More seriously, about the setup scum should know who they are, because the basic setups have scum collectively killing one person at night, so they have to be able to communicate to agree on a target + Show Spoiler +(in Thiercelieux they can even kill one of them by a majority vote, which can prove useful as a possible role is the White Wolf, which is basically a scum who can kill another scum every other night, and tries to finish the game all alone)
I don't think Dandel Ion would go for a specific setup (I haven't heard of any where scum don't know each other but I assume they exist) since it's a newbie Mafia, plus the OP talks about obs and scum quicktopic so TL;DR: scum should know each other.
While I'm not calling Wave scum, I see where the doubt can arise, though.
All in all, he started things up with his first post, but apart from that he didn't contribute much, simply asking people questions without many reads or exposed reasonings himself, and I say that with him calling me 100% townie.
I mean, sure I won't relish the trust.  But what he did could be interpreted as "Well I've been outed, better do damage control by claiming I was testing the waters, and since Alaric pinned the post down I'll call him townie so he's in good mood/will toward me", and I see how people could find it suspicious.
However, and especially in a newbie game, it's important to get things started, and I don't find it strange that Wave as a veteran was the one to do it. He's been more assertive in the last few posts, and I'm typing slowly, so it's all getting a bit fudged @_@
TL;DR: before the page with Moonbear's post I'd have agreed that Wave hasn't done much apart from kickstarting the game, but I think we shouldn't judge on that action and he has posted more aggressively since.
Still a bit neutral.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm not considering the "risk" of you being scum and giving me a townie read to make me friendly toward you, mostly because Soniv seems to agree with that. And even with RNG, what are the odds of both vets being scum, to coordinate like that? So a potentially scrutinizable move that I'll let slide.
On October 12 2014 03:48 Requizen wrote:
Why is asking for roles scummy? Maybe people are more truthful than you'd like to believe.
Voting at this stage seems dumb. No one has said anything to out themselves in any real way, other than the really long posts which make me think they're too tryhard to be Town.
But I've never played TL mafia so what do I know.
Aside from Moonbear, the other person I was interested in seeing posting is actually you, Requizen.
I don't know if we can call it meta or what, but it's mostly that you played (and enjoyed) 999 and Virtue's Last Reward, the plots of which are basically Mafia games from what I know.
When you talked about it it was mainly about some characters and their background, but I believe you liked the "puzzle" aspect of the Mafia part or you wouldn't have enjoyed the games as much. Which makes me think if you applied yourself to Mafia you could do a pretty good job of analysing things (at least the logical situations if not the people and bluffs), hopefully as a townie.
Well we also know that your attention span isn't your biggest asset, so I wouldn't be surprised if you had issues feeling involved—in short, "he might like the setting but the harsh interactions may push we away from it".
Considering this your shitposting/"I don't care" attitude looks genuine to me (and in line with how you usually act), so I'd classify you as town. I also want to give you a chance, eg. give you some time to find the motivation to involve yourself in the game, rather than cruise along or feel annoyed by our queries.
A few pointers:
- claims have already been addressed while I posted
- votes are not only the tool to lynch someone, otherwise we'd just PM Dandel right before the deadline and he'd write who voted what and lynch someone. Having a vote count on your head can be threatening, especially if you're set up for lynch at a given point. That's why when someone votes against you, it's more often to gauge your reaction than to really want you dead. As people pointed out (about Wave, hue), as a vanilla townie dying in the place of a "blue" (the townies with powers iirc?) is still a better outcome for the town, so a VT aware of his has no reason to panic* : if you're getting overly defensive, does it mean you're a blue fearing the town may lose an asset, are you scum freaking out at the idea that you got caught? That's what we're looking for.
Personally I'd vote sparingly to give more weight to it when I decide to vote against someone before the deadline, say if I want answers. Apparently Soniv's in the same boat.
* of course newbies may not realise that VT can be treated as "meatshields", and getting lynched Day 1 is never fun so noone wants it. Why I won't read too much into someone getting sensitive over a vote.
TL;DR: I think it's a genuine display of Requizen's usual personality so I lean town, plus I think he has potential for the game if he finds a spark to involve himself so I'd specifically want to avoid lynching him D1 even if he was posting suspicious stuff.
Ghandieagle still hasn't said anything as to why he votes against Wave, except for a "hunch", and his posts go into a bit of all directions. That wasn't the answers or additional posts I was looking for, Ghandi, and as I said that's looking more and more suspicious to me.
Then I refresh the page and see you're actually voting Cixah, specifically citing "bandwagoning" as your reason. Hoping on an already launched train (so you don't bring anything new, which means your contribution is minimal at best, unless the vote shakes things up but even that isn't reliant on you) is a really dubious move, it's like you're trying to appear scum.
...
Oh wtf I refresh again and two more pages. Guys! D:
Well, nothing new for Ghandieagle.
So, buddy, fight for your life, not for your neighbour's death! And that means telling us why you think he's scum, not who you think is scum.
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United States15536 Posts
Alright, I've finally gone with a comprehensive read and I'm ready to actually post some substance. Of course, after this I'll have to go for a while again (I think), but hopefully this puts suspicion off me and back towards the true scum where it belongs. By the way, I am also Vanilla Town (yo, Wave, you want some town solidarity and boldness? here it is).
So, it's D1 and we know fuck all, so my #1 evils atm are lurkers. I might end up voting on a lurker later or asking for a policy lynch if necessary. Lurkers are scum even if they're town because they're useless to our cause. Die lurkers die. (Yes I realize the hypocrisy, but hopefully I'll get more chances to participate from now on).
Here are my current scum reads: Alzadar and MoonBear. So far, these two have put forth the most useless content imo. No conclusions, lots of thoughts that don't lead anywhere concrete, a bunch of confusion that basically just serves to sow dissent among the ranks. In the end, MoonBear gets a pass from me for now because most of his post was based on a rules misunderstanding, but Alz has no excuse. In other words...
##Vote: Alzadar
... because until we have a reason to trust you at this point, you super scummy.
We also have our townies: Alaric and Req. Alaric's post was far too genuinely helpful for me to buy him as mafia. I don't think anyone's got that kind of skill just yet (except for perhaps Wave and soniv, but we'll get to them), so I'm taking that as genuine. Also, I don't see Req's attitude as a cover YET. However, if townies start falling around him, I'll totally revisit that because it'd be a DAMN good play for scum. But it comes back the fact that I don't think either player is good enough at Mafia yet to being lying based on the contents of their posts thus far.
Reads on everyone else:
- Wave - I, like ketchup, saw the boldness and the use of color text out of the gate as a little suspicious. It seemed to me that you could be using our noobishness against us by making it LOOK like your Town-hood was official. However, your other posts seem reasonable for the most part. I can't even blame you hunting me since I haven't posted much yet and, as I've said, lurkers be scum. I'm not entirely convinced you're town yet, but that's where I'm leaning. Probably Town.
- owb - Die lurker die. Come out of the woodwork and prove me wrong.
- Ghandi - I don't like your aggro behavior and one-liner style. It smells of scum. But I'm not ready to call this just yet. Still, your shit ain't up to standards.
- LT - Trolls are as bad as lurkers. Die. You're not an obvious threat yet, but I'd want to take you out first if there were no remaining threats like Alz.
- Coma - Die lurker die.
- Cixah - Not sure yet... Innocent Child claim is confusing.
- mordek - Similarly, not sure what to think. Don't like immediate hunch vs. Cixah, but you're clearly not committed to anything yet. I'll also keep an open mind.
- ketchup - I've generally agreed with you, starting from your first suspicions of Wave, so I'm thinking you're town in general. However, I don't buy a vote against Req right now, so you're in a gray area. Probably Town.
- soniv - I like Soniv as town because his posts have been sensible so far, but that's exactly what scumiv would do D1 too. Keeping an open mind because I like the perspectives, but could go either way.
Hopefully I didn't leave anything out or put anything suspicious in because I did do this in a semi-rush to get a post in before I moved on to other busy parts of the day. I'm happy to answer or clarify wherever anyone is confused.
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United States33802 Posts
I will play far more seriously once I'm home/at work. But for now, wedding. Posting will be sporadic at best if at all.
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Oh God I wanted to write "weird that MB" and now it hurts my eye but I can't edit it out and correct it because Mafia!!§§
This game is torture for my inner grammar nazi.
My post is also a mess despite all the TL;DR so I'll try to explain it a bit better for Req (even though I think Wave would disapprove, since I guess he'd count it as giving scum information?).
You go on hunches, because people will fuck up and if they don't you want them to fuck up anyway. Once they do, you pin them to the wall and shove it under their nose and when they're unable to come up with a convincing explanation, you lynch them.
There are several postulates you can follow:
- scum are lurkers because they think the less they post, the less likely they are to slip up (that's where for example you can start voting against someone; if he's not afk that'll probably spring him into action as he doesn't want to die)
- when you lynch a scum, you examine who was defending it. I don't have much experience so I don't know how much it holds, but in the games I've played newbie scum would sometimes try to defend their teammates for fear that they'll be in a difficult situation if one of them gets lynched. So the next day people will look at them and say "Hey they were pretty adamant in their defense of X yesterday, wonder if they're scum too". It happens rarely though, because that implies somebody talked and that's so rare in my games. T_T
- on the contrary when scum talk it's not in their interest to make the game progress. They'll try to put town on the wrong tracks, push for lynching townies, or simply say a bunch of useless stuff so people lose time (and clarity of mind, there's so much to read wtf) with it, and in the meantime they can't be accused of lurking since they posted.
That's Wave's beef with Moonbear for example (even moreso because Moonbear used metaphors and stuff to colour his post I'd wager).
So if you want to help you can analyse people's posts, and try to formulate you deductions/hunches/"reads" in a concise way, or interrogate people you find suspicious.
Basically, be proactive and efficient in hunting down scum.
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Plz Alaric. I haven't done much? Even before MB's post?
SO much plz.
I get why (and soniv) are holding back on voting, but at the very least you do need to have some sort of direction and/or scum read to go off of. Are you leaning towards Jeff right now? if not, then who?
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United States15536 Posts
Alaric helping to confirm my opinions about him as true town-bro.
I hope you don't get axed for being the smahtest townie.
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Can people stop making silly VT claims D1? Super annoying.
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United States15536 Posts
On October 12 2014 05:30 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Can people stop making silly VT claims D1? Super annoying.
Sorry, starting to realize how dumb this is.
Staph blaming... super noob here.
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EPT
