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On September 04 2014 04:33 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 04:28 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:26 The_Templar wrote:On September 04 2014 04:25 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
3d called a bunch of people scum for wanting to plynch, and then hops on a plynch bandwagon.
lool On September 04 2014 03:53 3d12 wrote:
All in all, I don't like the idea of a plynch. However, I less like the idea of scum lurking the thread and hopping on whatever bandwagon is hot at the time. Let's change that.
##Vote: Micchan You seemed to jump on this bandwagon easily, and now you're on the batwagon? What's your motivation, then? I posted mine. read his filter, primarily due because of batsnacks' stupid first post Exactly, he's still bandwagoning on bat for a 0% reason except "this might be a mission." I'll grant that's a valid reason, but I just can't see bat being mafia at this stage. His contributions are far too helpful. What has he contributed that has been helpful?
Specifically? The kita wagon. Even though I believe it's false, bat is being concise in constructing a case based on things that are not obvious. Everyone else is chasing the obvious lynch, but bat is thinking outside the box.
Besides, if he were mafia, why would he go out of his way to start a wagon against a second party? You would think that would make you stick out more than blend in, which it did.
On September 04 2014 04:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 04:32 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:28 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On September 04 2014 04:28 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:26 The_Templar wrote:On September 04 2014 04:25 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
3d called a bunch of people scum for wanting to plynch, and then hops on a plynch bandwagon.
lool On September 04 2014 03:53 3d12 wrote:
All in all, I don't like the idea of a plynch. However, I less like the idea of scum lurking the thread and hopping on whatever bandwagon is hot at the time. Let's change that.
##Vote: Micchan You seemed to jump on this bandwagon easily, and now you're on the batwagon? What's your motivation, then? I posted mine. read his filter, primarily due because of batsnacks' stupid first post Exactly, he's still bandwagoning on bat for a 0% reason except "this might be a mission." I'll grant that's a valid reason, but I just can't see bat being mafia at this stage. His contributions are far too helpful. Are you reading the thread? Which one, this one or Storm? Because it seems like you're pulling your reads on bat from the latter. Please do point out where you've built a constructive case surrounding this thread, though. Please shut up.
That doesn't sound very town of you... You don't like hearing what I have to say?
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Oh shit, I didn't get what everyone was talking about at first. The day-end post is at the bottom of page 31, for anyone else who missed it.
This sucks. I guess we can hold out hope for more blue roles, but at this point the thread is going so far off the rails that I don't even know how much that would help.
I wish we knew how many scum there were, anyway. Everyone's saying 6 scumreads from me seems too high, but I'm personally a bit more suspicious that you guys don't suspect many people. How many scum do you think there are? I'm betting at least 4.
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On September 04 2014 04:42 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 04:42 3d12 wrote:
Oh shit, I didn't get what everyone was talking about at first. The day-end post is at the bottom of page 31, for anyone else who missed it.
This sucks. I guess we can hold out hope for more blue roles, but at this point the thread is going so far off the rails that I don't even know how much that would help.
I wish we knew how many scum there were, anyway. Everyone's saying 6 scumreads from me seems too high, but I'm personally a bit more suspicious that you guys don't suspect many people. How many scum do you think there are? I'm betting at least 4. Since there are 13 players, there are almost certainly 3 scum. Have you ever played mafia before out of curiousity?
A few times, yeah. Mostly back in high school, it was a pretty popular game to play in band while setting up the stages.
So you guys play with a fixed number of mafia? We always played randomized, as long as it was less than half the total players. Though granted, not many people like D1 LYLO.
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On September 04 2014 04:46 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Well I'm guessing if there is a doctor blue role, I'm sure there's a couple other blue roles.
IS it too late to change my read back to scum on 3d?
Like, that was bad. just bad.
What was so bad? If you would rather I hold my information, I can do that instead. I didn't realize I'd be flamed so hard for posting reads.
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On September 04 2014 04:41 ObiWanShinobi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 04:38 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:33 27ninjabunnies wrote:On September 04 2014 04:28 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:26 The_Templar wrote:On September 04 2014 04:25 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
3d called a bunch of people scum for wanting to plynch, and then hops on a plynch bandwagon.
lool On September 04 2014 03:53 3d12 wrote:
All in all, I don't like the idea of a plynch. However, I less like the idea of scum lurking the thread and hopping on whatever bandwagon is hot at the time. Let's change that.
##Vote: Micchan You seemed to jump on this bandwagon easily, and now you're on the batwagon? What's your motivation, then? I posted mine. read his filter, primarily due because of batsnacks' stupid first post Exactly, he's still bandwagoning on bat for a 0% reason except "this might be a mission." I'll grant that's a valid reason, but I just can't see bat being mafia at this stage. His contributions are far too helpful. What has he contributed that has been helpful? Specifically? The kita wagon. Even though I believe it's false, bat is being concise in constructing a case based on things that are not obvious. Everyone else is chasing the obvious lynch, but bat is thinking outside the box. Besides, if he were mafia, why would he go out of his way to start a wagon against a second party? You would think that would make you stick out more than blend in, which it did. On September 04 2014 04:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On September 04 2014 04:32 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:28 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On September 04 2014 04:28 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:26 The_Templar wrote:On September 04 2014 04:25 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
3d called a bunch of people scum for wanting to plynch, and then hops on a plynch bandwagon.
lool On September 04 2014 03:53 3d12 wrote:
All in all, I don't like the idea of a plynch. However, I less like the idea of scum lurking the thread and hopping on whatever bandwagon is hot at the time. Let's change that.
##Vote: Micchan You seemed to jump on this bandwagon easily, and now you're on the batwagon? What's your motivation, then? I posted mine. read his filter, primarily due because of batsnacks' stupid first post Exactly, he's still bandwagoning on bat for a 0% reason except "this might be a mission." I'll grant that's a valid reason, but I just can't see bat being mafia at this stage. His contributions are far too helpful. Are you reading the thread? Which one, this one or Storm? Because it seems like you're pulling your reads on bat from the latter. Please do point out where you've built a constructive case surrounding this thread, though. Please shut up. That doesn't sound very town of you... You don't like hearing what I have to say? No, I don't. I think the majority of what you have said thus far has been really contradictory/superficial and you're starting to annoy me. Me not listening to you isn't even alignment indicative but you're acting like it is. So stop.
The only people with a motive to quash information are scum. And you seem to take personal offense to my accusation of you. Why is that? You have yet to point out any actual inconsistencies in what I've posted, instead going directly to personal insults. Why are you so threatened?
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On September 04 2014 06:38 ObiWanShinobi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 05:16 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:41 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On September 04 2014 04:38 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:33 27ninjabunnies wrote:On September 04 2014 04:28 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:26 The_Templar wrote:On September 04 2014 04:25 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
3d called a bunch of people scum for wanting to plynch, and then hops on a plynch bandwagon.
lool On September 04 2014 03:53 3d12 wrote:
All in all, I don't like the idea of a plynch. However, I less like the idea of scum lurking the thread and hopping on whatever bandwagon is hot at the time. Let's change that.
##Vote: Micchan You seemed to jump on this bandwagon easily, and now you're on the batwagon? What's your motivation, then? I posted mine. read his filter, primarily due because of batsnacks' stupid first post Exactly, he's still bandwagoning on bat for a 0% reason except "this might be a mission." I'll grant that's a valid reason, but I just can't see bat being mafia at this stage. His contributions are far too helpful. What has he contributed that has been helpful? Specifically? The kita wagon. Even though I believe it's false, bat is being concise in constructing a case based on things that are not obvious. Everyone else is chasing the obvious lynch, but bat is thinking outside the box. Besides, if he were mafia, why would he go out of his way to start a wagon against a second party? You would think that would make you stick out more than blend in, which it did. On September 04 2014 04:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On September 04 2014 04:32 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:28 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On September 04 2014 04:28 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 04:26 The_Templar wrote:On September 04 2014 04:25 3d12 wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
You seemed to jump on this bandwagon easily, and now you're on the batwagon? What's your motivation, then? I posted mine. read his filter, primarily due because of batsnacks' stupid first post Exactly, he's still bandwagoning on bat for a 0% reason except "this might be a mission." I'll grant that's a valid reason, but I just can't see bat being mafia at this stage. His contributions are far too helpful. Are you reading the thread? Which one, this one or Storm? Because it seems like you're pulling your reads on bat from the latter. Please do point out where you've built a constructive case surrounding this thread, though. Please shut up. That doesn't sound very town of you... You don't like hearing what I have to say? No, I don't. I think the majority of what you have said thus far has been really contradictory/superficial and you're starting to annoy me. Me not listening to you isn't even alignment indicative but you're acting like it is. So stop. The only people with a motive to quash information are scum. And you seem to take personal offense to my accusation of you. Why is that? You have yet to point out any actual inconsistencies in what I've posted, instead going directly to personal insults. Why are you so threatened? I'm not threatened. We've pointed out several issues in what you've been saying but you haven't been paying attention to any of them. If you're not reading the thread, then I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain things to you.
How about no. What you have pointed out so far is:
On September 04 2014 04:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
3d called a bunch of people scum for wanting to plynch, and then hops on a plynch bandwagon.
lool
On September 04 2014 04:23 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
That last giant post from 3d is really shitty in more ways than one.
If we could do a last minute swap to him, that would be really cool. There are like 50 billion contradictions in there and I doubt he'll be able to explain all of them away. Lots of unnecessary doubt in there and not a whole lot of stuff makes sense on inspection.
And then a whole bunch of buttmad just because I hold a different viewpoint than you on the batsnacks issue.
If you could actually consolidate your thoughts on me into a cohesive point, you might not read as red as Mars right now. As it stands, you're backtracking and scrambling to start a wagon. Neither are things I would consider town behavior.
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On September 04 2014 04:15 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 03:53 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 05:38 mderg wrote:
Anyone else thinking that 3d12 is trying hard to get some newbie bonus? I also don't like how a provocative opening instantly makes him townread people. Anyone else thinking that mderg is trying hard to get some focus on me? I wasn't the only one to nullread/townread bat yesterday. And yes, traditionally from my live mafia experience, provocative openings are usually townies. It's probably an 80/20 split. I never confirmed him green, but I pointed out that bat looked town from the way he opened. If you have a better reason to scumread him instead, why not post your reasoning? On September 03 2014 00:05 mderg wrote:
I don't like the batsnacks votes. They seem kinda lazy. Sure, his post didn't make any sense but that's it.
This was all the reasoning I could find in your filter, and it's pretty weak. So, how about it, mderg? Batsnacks: scum or town? I think you're misunderstanding something. I'm undecided about batsnacks, I don't have a better reason to scumread him than you have to townread him but that's exactly why I'm not scumreading him. You pulled some reason to townread batsnacks out of your ass that's 0% reliable. And that's what's bothering me.
That's a very fair point. So who do you have as scum so far? I'd like to hear more about what you have, since your filter is devoid of reads and consists mostly of you agreeing with people. What do you think of ObiWanShinobi so far?
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On September 04 2014 12:34 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Templar, Vivax can base his reads off of meta because he has tons of first hand experience of playing with both of us.
They look like shitty reasons to you because we've never played together.
This post bothers me the most so far. Unless it's sarcasm, then disregard.
Why would an individual's meta be relevant at all? I understand the nature of certain people may not change much, but especially in a forum-based game, is it really so hard to believe that people would act differently from game to game?
Because to be honest, it does look like the shittiest reason. I don't like this read from Vivax at all. If you can challenge this view, I'd welcome you to do so. No hate, and I promise I'm reading. Keep in mind that people interpret things differently, and that's part of the fun of Mafia. What one person may not see in a post, someone else might.
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On September 04 2014 06:39 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 06:37 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On September 04 2014 06:26 batsnacks wrote:On September 04 2014 06:16 Tehpoofter wrote:On September 04 2014 06:05 batsnacks wrote:
Picking easy targets is good they said. Lynch the low hanging fruit they said. Well now the doctor is dead and none of you have reads because the doctor never said anything. Taunting will help. Why don't you tell me what we should have done and who was most benefited by the doctor lynch? Taunting does help. It helps me cope with ya'll. We should have NOT voted the easiest possible target d1 and mafia is most benefited by the doctor lynch. Then why did you fuck off after you posted your case on kita? Why didn't you push your target harder? Why didn't you answer anyone else's questions when you came back into the thread? Why didn't you push/explain your scumreads on me/bunnies? I was busy. Why ask me these questions now and not when you are imagining they would be important? This discussion is meaningless now.
He does have a point. To be honest, it looks like the way you started your wagon could have even been the point of a mission. Something like "be the only vote on a target" or "have X number of targets by EoD." I liked your reasoning on the kita case, but give me a reason to like it. Why not push your target, especially so close to deadline?
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On September 04 2014 13:19 ObiWanShinobi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 13:05 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 12:34 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Templar, Vivax can base his reads off of meta because he has tons of first hand experience of playing with both of us.
They look like shitty reasons to you because we've never played together. This post bothers me the most so far. Unless it's sarcasm, then disregard. Why would an individual's meta be relevant at all? I understand the nature of certain people may not change much, but especially in a forum-based game, is it really so hard to believe that people would act differently from game to game? Because to be honest, it does look like the shittiest reason. I don't like this read from Vivax at all. If you can challenge this view, I'd welcome you to do so. No hate, and I promise I'm reading. Keep in mind that people interpret things differently, and that's part of the fun of Mafia. What one person may not see in a post, someone else might. I really don't think you understand how meta works. People can consciously change their meta but that doesn't really erase the fact that they're still going to show signs of being mafia or not. Kush is playing to his scum meta because he doesn't give a shit about what's going on. It's hard for him to fake the amount of effort he generally puts into the game when he's town. His posts near EoD were all really good, so it's possible, but he won't be able to keep up that level of interest forever if he's scum. If you want to go ahead and use the database to confirm your suspicions or to look up whether what we're saying or not is true, then go ahead.
I understand, I might have to look into that. Thank you for explaining. I've never put much weight into this notion, at least not for live mafia. Maybe forum mafia applies differently. That might be why our radars are so out-of-sync though, meta reads on players don't sit very well with me in general.
Re-reading your filter, it does seem like bat's case has a few holes. I didn't take it very seriously at first, since the whole post gave me a bad vibe and bat hadn't exactly seemed the most trustworthy type. What do you think about the discussion of ending the voting early, or otherwise changing the "structural meta?" An idea I had in the shower earlier would be to have each person pick someone who will decide their vote for them. That way, if mafia are forced to vote a certain way, anyone who disobeys the "town meta" will stick out.
It's another shot in the dark, but since it's nighttime anyway, why not. It's been a while since the topic of missions was brought up. So far I see a few ways they could have affected the gameplay, as in my post to batsnacks, but nothing too solid. Any thoughts?
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On September 04 2014 11:30 Damdred wrote:
Yes, his read evolution is weird. His town reading bats has me feeling uneasy, and his vote post talking about jumping on a hot wagon and lurking felt off.
so I think he has to be in the discussion
Why did that part of the post feel off to you? I thought it was pretty straightforward.
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On September 04 2014 13:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Or we can just scumhunt.
The trouble of going through with trying to fuck with people's missions that we don't even really know about is a bit much. Scumhunting is probably easier, so wharvez.
When you say a bit much, do you mean too much effort or too many people?
With a coordinated town effort, I think enough subtle changes to the meta could really throw things off for them. The way I see the Mafia this game, they are likely extra paranoid due to the death condition hanging over their heads. I think the easiest way to bring them out would be to shake things up and see who starts crawling out. Do you disagree?
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On September 04 2014 13:45 Vivax wrote:
3d12, I quoted two posts of yours regarding bunnies that seem contradictory and generally dont display well how you decide to get the current read on her, can you go into detail about that stuff?
Sure. Quoted here, for posterity.
On September 04 2014 11:31 Vivax wrote:Specifically: Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 03:07 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:22 kitaman27 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:21 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
Obi is a bit of a mystery, but is starting to look more pink to me. The fact that he was so willing to vote out bat for what was likely a provocation post makes me question his motives, but the fact that he instantly switched his view to Templar after receiving some pressure is a bit more fishy. More data is needed, but the radar is definitely reading slightly pink. On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
It wasn't who he voted for, it was how he voted and why. By casting a vote in a random direction, one can sit back and observe how people react to that vote. That's not typically Mafia behavior, though I will admit the long-winded post from earlier had me confused as well. All in all, it's a tough read; but if I had to imagine myself in his position, I wouldn't imagine he'd want to make such a big target out of himself on D1 if he were Mafia. On September 02 2014 04:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Reporting in.
##vote 27nb So why doesn't your logic that gives you a town read on bat, not apply to obi? Didn't he "cast a vote in a random direction"? You say bat wouldn't want to make a big target of himself as mafia by random voting, but obi would? This seems inconsistent to me. EBWOP If you'd asked me this 4 hours in, I'd have read Obi as green as I did bat. His opening vote was similarly provocative, and there was little reason to suspect. Since pushing to have bat plynched though, Obi has pointed fingers at two other parties and is acting much more defensive. I'm not voting yet, but Obi is definitely on my radar. On September 03 2014 01:38 Damdred wrote:On September 03 2014 01:30 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 01:11 Damdred wrote:
Actually 3d, why are you ignoring bunnies right now? She has said a couple times that she would be happy to get you out of the game, what do you think of that? Why did you put off commenting on it? Not worth comment, imo. She said herself that her read on me is only a "gut read," and if people are happy with bandwagoning on a gut feeling to have me lynched, I'll happily /obs and laugh as the scum runs away with the game. Well I can understand that. However what do you think of bunnies posts besides her gut feeling on you?
What posts? Aside from a suspicious(ly silly) read on poofter and a CTA for a vigi on bat, she hasn't contributed much to the discussion so far. If anything, if the deadline was right now and I had to cast my vote, I think 27nb would be my choice. Stepping up and trying to publicly read poofter as town based on nothing but troll posts gives me a bad feeling that there may even be a bus straight to LYLO going on under our noses. Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 03:53 3d12 wrote:Hey everyone, sorry for going MIA yesterday. I got dragged into a bit of a mess IRL that ended up sucking up my night. I lurked the thread on my phone when I could get service, and took down some notes: Notes from last night:
1. The next person to suggest we ignore missions is getting full-on scumread. This topic keeps coming up, very sporadically, and it feels like a few people are trying to echo the idea across the crowd, so it's more acceptable later. Ignoring the mission concept is completely unacceptable and will only serve to hinder us. Stay vigilant for possible mission-like behaviors, everyone. I get the feeling that they would be rather out-of-the-ordinary missions, otherwise the host could have just as well run vanilla. (Sorry for the meta read there, but if anyone wants to refute that, I'm open to hear your case.)
2. Micchan is giving off a serious mafia vibe to me. Not only did his bandwagoning post seem forced ("Ok here whatever" as if he's trying to seem aloof) but the fact that his only other post yesterday was a defensive misdirection, posted only 20 minutes after he was called out. He's either really bad at this game, scum, too busy IRL to play, or any/all of the above.
3. Poofter's reads (specifically the BMK list) seem solid for the most part, but the way he posted and went after Micchan tells me something isn't right. Specifically, the way he's applying pressure to vote. The reads say town, but the pressure says mafia. Nobody on my town list so far has been pushing for a D1 lynch.
4. My posts usually do come across as apologetic. Not just here either. Blame my mother for giving birth within spitting distance of Canada. Anyone reading into that makes it on my scum list, since it looks like they're conjuring fault out of nothing. With my personal notes out of the way, let's move on to direct responses: On September 03 2014 05:23 The_Templar wrote:On September 03 2014 03:07 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:22 kitaman27 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:21 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
Obi is a bit of a mystery, but is starting to look more pink to me. The fact that he was so willing to vote out bat for what was likely a provocation post makes me question his motives, but the fact that he instantly switched his view to Templar after receiving some pressure is a bit more fishy. More data is needed, but the radar is definitely reading slightly pink. On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
It wasn't who he voted for, it was how he voted and why. By casting a vote in a random direction, one can sit back and observe how people react to that vote. That's not typically Mafia behavior, though I will admit the long-winded post from earlier had me confused as well. All in all, it's a tough read; but if I had to imagine myself in his position, I wouldn't imagine he'd want to make such a big target out of himself on D1 if he were Mafia. On September 02 2014 04:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Reporting in.
##vote 27nb So why doesn't your logic that gives you a town read on bat, not apply to obi? Didn't he "cast a vote in a random direction"? You say bat wouldn't want to make a big target of himself as mafia by random voting, but obi would? This seems inconsistent to me. EBWOP If you'd asked me this 4 hours in, I'd have read Obi as green as I did bat. His opening vote was similarly provocative, and there was little reason to suspect. Since pushing to have bat plynched though, Obi has pointed fingers at two other parties and is acting much more defensive. I'm not voting yet, but Obi is definitely on my radar. On September 03 2014 01:38 Damdred wrote:On September 03 2014 01:30 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 01:11 Damdred wrote:
Actually 3d, why are you ignoring bunnies right now? She has said a couple times that she would be happy to get you out of the game, what do you think of that? Why did you put off commenting on it? Not worth comment, imo. She said herself that her read on me is only a "gut read," and if people are happy with bandwagoning on a gut feeling to have me lynched, I'll happily /obs and laugh as the scum runs away with the game. Well I can understand that. However what do you think of bunnies posts besides her gut feeling on you? What posts? Aside from a suspicious(ly silly) read on poofter and a CTA for a vigi on bat, she hasn't contributed much to the discussion so far. If anything, if the deadline was right now and I had to cast my vote, I think 27nb would be my choice. Stepping up and trying to publicly read poofter as town based on nothing but troll posts gives me a bad feeling that there may even be a bus straight to LYLO going on under our noses. If you think bunnies' activities make her lynchable right now you should probably explain the posts she has made... Up until this post in the thread, bunnies' biggest contribution to the thread was to town claim for the person she's been buddying/bantering with throughout the whole thread. Suspicious? Yes. Lynchable? Not by itself.
I also particularly disliked the way bunnies was gathering information, going from defensive short-posts to prodding people for their reads and then replying to each one-by-one. Generally, townies are more willing to share their reads, instead of needing to base their perspective on other people's reads.
Today's bunnies is a bit different from yesterday's bunnies, in that she's laid out a list of her reads. No information or explanation, but at least she's sharing. I do like that.The read is silly because it was based entirely on meta. A person's meta can change from game to game. This read came from nothing tangible. For example, it would be impossible for me to have the same read on poof because I've never played with him. Since you and I have been exposed to the same information this game, you are using information I have not been exposed to to make a claim on someone else. That is absolutely 100% fishy, would you agree? As for my reads on poofter, see point 3 from my "last night's notes" above, and my list of reads below. On September 03 2014 05:38 mderg wrote:
Anyone else thinking that 3d12 is trying hard to get some newbie bonus? I also don't like how a provocative opening instantly makes him townread people. Anyone else thinking that mderg is trying hard to get some focus on me? I wasn't the only one to nullread/townread bat yesterday. And yes, traditionally from my live mafia experience, provocative openings are usually townies. It's probably an 80/20 split. I never confirmed him green, but I pointed out that bat looked town from the way he opened. If you have a better reason to scumread him instead, why not post your reasoning? On September 03 2014 00:05 mderg wrote:
I don't like the batsnacks votes. They seem kinda lazy. Sure, his post didn't make any sense but that's it.
This was all the reasoning I could find in your filter, and it's pretty weak. So, how about it, mderg? Batsnacks: scum or town?
List of reads: MafiaObiWanShinobi (Very non-committal so far, easily switched vote from "troll vote" to batsnacks once it seemed like bat was being scumread. Hesitant to share information. Off-topic posts. Only real redeeming quality so far is calling out kush, very pro-town move.) mderg (Repeatedly pushing the "ignore the missions" idea, provoking reactions from players while not disclosing any information himself, heavy lurking, generally defensive) kushm4sta (Tunnel-vision on batsnacks, trying to start a plynch, low activity otherwise) Micchan (Inactivity, defensive, no thoughts shared, no case built, suspicious bandwagoning) Mafia-likely (Pink)TehPoofter (High voting pressure, starting a bandwagon/plynch, very large filter, calls people out on buddying while blatantly attempting to buddy, redeemed so far by good questioning of Templar's motives) Oatsmaster (Avoiding all talk about missions, redirecting scum claims towards bat and Obi, not posting thoughts openly) Neutral (White)The_Templar (Good expression and information-sharing, challenges unnatural ideas/thoughts, sensibly pieces together a motive. Neutral because of weak (meta/defensive) defense about his role) Vivax (Strange read on poofter, but otherwise constructs very sensible and well-put-together posts pointing out discrepancies. Without the pink vibe from his accusations toward kita and templar, would likely be very town atm.) Damdred (No real read yet, seems to be gathering information. Is asking the right questions, but not sharing information openly) 27ninjabunnies (Good info balanced out by suspicious buddying/claiming) Townbatsnacks (I wasn't sure at first, but after your expose on kita, I know you're looking in the right places. Your investigation is solid and you're providing direct responses to your challenges. I highly doubt kita is scum, but I like the way you think.) kitaman27 (The main source of information so far imo, this guy is posting very good reads and keeping good notes. Only scummy behavior so far is what was pointed out by Vivax, but without further proof I'm willing to let it slide as a poor choice of words) All in all, I don't like the idea of a plynch. However, I less like the idea of scum lurking the thread and hopping on whatever bandwagon is hot at the time. Let's change that. ##Vote: Micchan
My read on bunnies was based mostly on her read of poofter. Early D1 I didn't like the way she openly read him as town for reasons of personal meta. At the moment, it seemed like the most likely scenario was that she was buddying and attempting to avoid suspect. Later on in the day, she seemed to become more perceptive and started posting reads and sharing info, interacting with more people.
Specifically this post, which was indicative that we're at least reading kita the same way:
On September 03 2014 22:31 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 22:23 kitaman27 wrote:On September 03 2014 21:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Anything special happened? On September 03 2014 21:13 batsnacks wrote:
If I'm gambling, I bet kitaman is mafia and his mission is that he has to vote with the majority.
##vote: kitaman27 Thoughts? Well, Bat's read disagrees with mine. I find you quite townie. Your posts have been pretty good, your reads aren't too bad (though reads arent technically alignment indicative), and your questions have been great. I like where your mind is at. Mostly. Tho, not sure if bats vote is troll or actually serious. If serious, Im curious as to the conclusion he came up with on you and how you are mafia.
I'm not 100% convinced she's town, but she gained a few town points to me in the twilight hours of D1.
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On September 04 2014 16:45 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 14:08 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 13:45 Vivax wrote:
3d12, I quoted two posts of yours regarding bunnies that seem contradictory and generally dont display well how you decide to get the current read on her, can you go into detail about that stuff? Sure. Quoted here, for posterity. On September 04 2014 11:31 Vivax wrote:Specifically: On September 03 2014 03:07 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:22 kitaman27 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:21 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
Obi is a bit of a mystery, but is starting to look more pink to me. The fact that he was so willing to vote out bat for what was likely a provocation post makes me question his motives, but the fact that he instantly switched his view to Templar after receiving some pressure is a bit more fishy. More data is needed, but the radar is definitely reading slightly pink. On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
It wasn't who he voted for, it was how he voted and why. By casting a vote in a random direction, one can sit back and observe how people react to that vote. That's not typically Mafia behavior, though I will admit the long-winded post from earlier had me confused as well. All in all, it's a tough read; but if I had to imagine myself in his position, I wouldn't imagine he'd want to make such a big target out of himself on D1 if he were Mafia. On September 02 2014 04:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Reporting in.
##vote 27nb So why doesn't your logic that gives you a town read on bat, not apply to obi? Didn't he "cast a vote in a random direction"? You say bat wouldn't want to make a big target of himself as mafia by random voting, but obi would? This seems inconsistent to me. EBWOP If you'd asked me this 4 hours in, I'd have read Obi as green as I did bat. His opening vote was similarly provocative, and there was little reason to suspect. Since pushing to have bat plynched though, Obi has pointed fingers at two other parties and is acting much more defensive. I'm not voting yet, but Obi is definitely on my radar. On September 03 2014 01:38 Damdred wrote:On September 03 2014 01:30 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 01:11 Damdred wrote:
Actually 3d, why are you ignoring bunnies right now? She has said a couple times that she would be happy to get you out of the game, what do you think of that? Why did you put off commenting on it? Not worth comment, imo. She said herself that her read on me is only a "gut read," and if people are happy with bandwagoning on a gut feeling to have me lynched, I'll happily /obs and laugh as the scum runs away with the game. Well I can understand that. However what do you think of bunnies posts besides her gut feeling on you?
What posts? Aside from a suspicious(ly silly) read on poofter and a CTA for a vigi on bat, she hasn't contributed much to the discussion so far. If anything, if the deadline was right now and I had to cast my vote, I think 27nb would be my choice. Stepping up and trying to publicly read poofter as town based on nothing but troll posts gives me a bad feeling that there may even be a bus straight to LYLO going on under our noses. On September 04 2014 03:53 3d12 wrote:Hey everyone, sorry for going MIA yesterday. I got dragged into a bit of a mess IRL that ended up sucking up my night. I lurked the thread on my phone when I could get service, and took down some notes: Notes from last night:
1. The next person to suggest we ignore missions is getting full-on scumread. This topic keeps coming up, very sporadically, and it feels like a few people are trying to echo the idea across the crowd, so it's more acceptable later. Ignoring the mission concept is completely unacceptable and will only serve to hinder us. Stay vigilant for possible mission-like behaviors, everyone. I get the feeling that they would be rather out-of-the-ordinary missions, otherwise the host could have just as well run vanilla. (Sorry for the meta read there, but if anyone wants to refute that, I'm open to hear your case.)
2. Micchan is giving off a serious mafia vibe to me. Not only did his bandwagoning post seem forced ("Ok here whatever" as if he's trying to seem aloof) but the fact that his only other post yesterday was a defensive misdirection, posted only 20 minutes after he was called out. He's either really bad at this game, scum, too busy IRL to play, or any/all of the above.
3. Poofter's reads (specifically the BMK list) seem solid for the most part, but the way he posted and went after Micchan tells me something isn't right. Specifically, the way he's applying pressure to vote. The reads say town, but the pressure says mafia. Nobody on my town list so far has been pushing for a D1 lynch.
4. My posts usually do come across as apologetic. Not just here either. Blame my mother for giving birth within spitting distance of Canada. Anyone reading into that makes it on my scum list, since it looks like they're conjuring fault out of nothing. With my personal notes out of the way, let's move on to direct responses: On September 03 2014 05:23 The_Templar wrote:On September 03 2014 03:07 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:22 kitaman27 wrote:On September 03 2014 02:21 kitaman27 wrote:On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
Obi is a bit of a mystery, but is starting to look more pink to me. The fact that he was so willing to vote out bat for what was likely a provocation post makes me question his motives, but the fact that he instantly switched his view to Templar after receiving some pressure is a bit more fishy. More data is needed, but the radar is definitely reading slightly pink. On September 02 2014 17:24 3d12 wrote:
It wasn't who he voted for, it was how he voted and why. By casting a vote in a random direction, one can sit back and observe how people react to that vote. That's not typically Mafia behavior, though I will admit the long-winded post from earlier had me confused as well. All in all, it's a tough read; but if I had to imagine myself in his position, I wouldn't imagine he'd want to make such a big target out of himself on D1 if he were Mafia. On September 02 2014 04:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Reporting in.
##vote 27nb So why doesn't your logic that gives you a town read on bat, not apply to obi? Didn't he "cast a vote in a random direction"? You say bat wouldn't want to make a big target of himself as mafia by random voting, but obi would? This seems inconsistent to me. EBWOP If you'd asked me this 4 hours in, I'd have read Obi as green as I did bat. His opening vote was similarly provocative, and there was little reason to suspect. Since pushing to have bat plynched though, Obi has pointed fingers at two other parties and is acting much more defensive. I'm not voting yet, but Obi is definitely on my radar. On September 03 2014 01:38 Damdred wrote:On September 03 2014 01:30 3d12 wrote:On September 03 2014 01:11 Damdred wrote:
Actually 3d, why are you ignoring bunnies right now? She has said a couple times that she would be happy to get you out of the game, what do you think of that? Why did you put off commenting on it? Not worth comment, imo. She said herself that her read on me is only a "gut read," and if people are happy with bandwagoning on a gut feeling to have me lynched, I'll happily /obs and laugh as the scum runs away with the game. Well I can understand that. However what do you think of bunnies posts besides her gut feeling on you? What posts? Aside from a suspicious(ly silly) read on poofter and a CTA for a vigi on bat, she hasn't contributed much to the discussion so far. If anything, if the deadline was right now and I had to cast my vote, I think 27nb would be my choice. Stepping up and trying to publicly read poofter as town based on nothing but troll posts gives me a bad feeling that there may even be a bus straight to LYLO going on under our noses. If you think bunnies' activities make her lynchable right now you should probably explain the posts she has made... Up until this post in the thread, bunnies' biggest contribution to the thread was to town claim for the person she's been buddying/bantering with throughout the whole thread. Suspicious? Yes. Lynchable? Not by itself.
I also particularly disliked the way bunnies was gathering information, going from defensive short-posts to prodding people for their reads and then replying to each one-by-one. Generally, townies are more willing to share their reads, instead of needing to base their perspective on other people's reads.
Today's bunnies is a bit different from yesterday's bunnies, in that she's laid out a list of her reads. No information or explanation, but at least she's sharing. I do like that.The read is silly because it was based entirely on meta. A person's meta can change from game to game. This read came from nothing tangible. For example, it would be impossible for me to have the same read on poof because I've never played with him. Since you and I have been exposed to the same information this game, you are using information I have not been exposed to to make a claim on someone else. That is absolutely 100% fishy, would you agree? As for my reads on poofter, see point 3 from my "last night's notes" above, and my list of reads below. On September 03 2014 05:38 mderg wrote:
Anyone else thinking that 3d12 is trying hard to get some newbie bonus? I also don't like how a provocative opening instantly makes him townread people. Anyone else thinking that mderg is trying hard to get some focus on me? I wasn't the only one to nullread/townread bat yesterday. And yes, traditionally from my live mafia experience, provocative openings are usually townies. It's probably an 80/20 split. I never confirmed him green, but I pointed out that bat looked town from the way he opened. If you have a better reason to scumread him instead, why not post your reasoning? On September 03 2014 00:05 mderg wrote:
I don't like the batsnacks votes. They seem kinda lazy. Sure, his post didn't make any sense but that's it.
This was all the reasoning I could find in your filter, and it's pretty weak. So, how about it, mderg? Batsnacks: scum or town?
List of reads: MafiaObiWanShinobi (Very non-committal so far, easily switched vote from "troll vote" to batsnacks once it seemed like bat was being scumread. Hesitant to share information. Off-topic posts. Only real redeeming quality so far is calling out kush, very pro-town move.) mderg (Repeatedly pushing the "ignore the missions" idea, provoking reactions from players while not disclosing any information himself, heavy lurking, generally defensive) kushm4sta (Tunnel-vision on batsnacks, trying to start a plynch, low activity otherwise) Micchan (Inactivity, defensive, no thoughts shared, no case built, suspicious bandwagoning) Mafia-likely (Pink)TehPoofter (High voting pressure, starting a bandwagon/plynch, very large filter, calls people out on buddying while blatantly attempting to buddy, redeemed so far by good questioning of Templar's motives) Oatsmaster (Avoiding all talk about missions, redirecting scum claims towards bat and Obi, not posting thoughts openly) Neutral (White)The_Templar (Good expression and information-sharing, challenges unnatural ideas/thoughts, sensibly pieces together a motive. Neutral because of weak (meta/defensive) defense about his role) Vivax (Strange read on poofter, but otherwise constructs very sensible and well-put-together posts pointing out discrepancies. Without the pink vibe from his accusations toward kita and templar, would likely be very town atm.) Damdred (No real read yet, seems to be gathering information. Is asking the right questions, but not sharing information openly) 27ninjabunnies (Good info balanced out by suspicious buddying/claiming) Townbatsnacks (I wasn't sure at first, but after your expose on kita, I know you're looking in the right places. Your investigation is solid and you're providing direct responses to your challenges. I highly doubt kita is scum, but I like the way you think.) kitaman27 (The main source of information so far imo, this guy is posting very good reads and keeping good notes. Only scummy behavior so far is what was pointed out by Vivax, but without further proof I'm willing to let it slide as a poor choice of words) All in all, I don't like the idea of a plynch. However, I less like the idea of scum lurking the thread and hopping on whatever bandwagon is hot at the time. Let's change that. ##Vote: Micchan My read on bunnies was based mostly on her read of poofter. Early D1 I didn't like the way she openly read him as town for reasons of personal meta. At the moment, it seemed like the most likely scenario was that she was buddying and attempting to avoid suspect. Later on in the day, she seemed to become more perceptive and started posting reads and sharing info, interacting with more people. Specifically this post, which was indicative that we're at least reading kita the same way: On September 03 2014 22:31 27ninjabunnies wrote:On September 03 2014 22:23 kitaman27 wrote:On September 03 2014 21:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Anything special happened? On September 03 2014 21:13 batsnacks wrote:
If I'm gambling, I bet kitaman is mafia and his mission is that he has to vote with the majority.
##vote: kitaman27 Thoughts? Well, Bat's read disagrees with mine. I find you quite townie. Your posts have been pretty good, your reads aren't too bad (though reads arent technically alignment indicative), and your questions have been great. I like where your mind is at. Mostly. Tho, not sure if bats vote is troll or actually serious. If serious, Im curious as to the conclusion he came up with on you and how you are mafia. I'm not 100% convinced she's town, but she gained a few town points to me in the twilight hours of D1. Yea but what I'm still missing here is the contradiction: First you said "If I could lynch someone now it would be bunnies". In the later post you backtrack from this and say about the same stuff "suspicious, yes, but lynchable no". Then mention how you didn't like her way of prodding people for reads. And at the end of this it's suddenly all cool cause she shared her reads at some point. Your suspicion of her is not as visible at this point, compared to the previous post where you said you would lynch her, and you mention a mix of scummy and not scummy stuff you conclude with by saying something that you like (she's sharing reads of her own). What also is out of my understanding is that you mention the scummy stuff a person has done and when she stops doing it, it's suddenly all right again. It's like pointing out things that make somebody scum, they are there, they are out and you saw them and picked up on it. And when that person simply stops doing the mistakes you called her out for, you unscumread her? Just like that?
On September 04 2014 16:47 Vivax wrote:
Oh and with the post you answered to me just now you forgot to mention one of the things you previously found scummy about her: That she was asking people for their reads.
Forgetful about the reasons you found her scummy for?
The funny thing about contradictions is that, if you look hard enough, you can almost always find one.
Since you were asking about my interpretation earlier, allow me to deconstruct this excellent example.
First, I'll re-quote the relevant part above, without nesting, to ensure we're contextually on the same page.
On September 03 2014 03:07 3d12 wrote:
<snip>
What posts? Aside from a suspicious(ly silly) read on poofter and a CTA for a vigi on bat, she hasn't contributed much to the discussion so far. If anything, if the deadline was right now and I had to cast my vote, I think 27nb would be my choice. Stepping up and trying to publicly read poofter as town based on nothing but troll posts gives me a bad feeling that there may even be a bus straight to LYLO going on under our noses.
Look at the bolded part. What you read as "if I could lynch someone right now it would be bunnies," I read as "there haven't been too many examples of openly scummy behavior yet, so this is my #1 at the moment." By itself, this isn't lynchable, and thus my hesitation to even speculate at a vote, and the wild speculation that ensues in the following sentence. Did I really construe all of that from her filter? No, of course not, there's no factual evidence for it. But it did give me a really bad feeling, especially since I didn't get the same 'provocative' vibe I got from batsnacks.
The bad feeling mostly went away though, when I saw more involvement in the later half of D1. What before was "tell me what happened and why that's important to you" bunnies was now "my reads look like yours" bunnies -- much less trolly/fluffy, (lol fluffy bunnies) much more serious, much more involved in the progress of the game. Her posting a reads list did shift her to neutral in my mind, since I'm still mostly focusing on the people who were using the batsnacks confusion on D1 to slip through more or less unnoticed. (Hint: the ones marked as most likely mafia on my reads list)
To put it more simply, she went from "probably scum" to "probably not scum." Still no solid read, as we're only on N1.
That was fun. For our next exercise in perception, I'd like you to analyze the motive behind this post. Not the content of the post itself, but I'd like you to explain to me why you think 27nb said this:
On September 04 2014 11:43 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So, the conversations here have been pretty interesting..
Seriously, batsnacks needs to die!
There's been like 4 or 5 times Obi has asked BS to give his read as to why there's one between me and him, and BS still has refused to answer.
Why are you avoiding it so much, Bat?
Also, Dam, how can you be reading me, Bat, and 3d as mafia when I've been pushing on Bat, and called 3d scum/neutral scum earlier?
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On September 04 2014 21:59 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Actually I'm curious. How is asking for reads scummy?
3d, have you played forum mafia before (you might have answered this before, but I'm lazy and don't want to search)
I did answer this, and Templar is correct. I've never played forum mafia, only RL and that was about 4-5 years ago now. Is there really that much of a disparity in the meta between the two?
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On September 04 2014 22:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 22:05 The_Templar wrote:On September 04 2014 21:59 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Actually I'm curious. How is asking for reads scummy?
3d, have you played forum mafia before (you might have answered this before, but I'm lazy and don't want to search) he said he played live mafia a few times, didn't say anything about forum mafia (he didn't know # of mafia) so I guess… no? Then that leads me to this question: did those who asked for other people's reads always turn out scum?
Always? No. And no, asking for reads is not inherently scummy. I find the "explain why you find this important" behavior pretty scummy for D1, considering there's generally very little to find important before the first lynch. Again, this may be a difference in meta, but typically nobody's opinion is worth asking about on D1 and most people who do ask for opinions at that stage are too wrapped up in their mafia mindset to come up with an opinion of their own. This obviously wasn't the case with you, as you showed later on, but it did make me suspicious when my first posted impression of bat was taken to mean a true town read by a lot of people.
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On September 05 2014 00:42 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 00:18 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 21:59 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Actually I'm curious. How is asking for reads scummy?
3d, have you played forum mafia before (you might have answered this before, but I'm lazy and don't want to search) I did answer this, and Templar is correct. I've never played forum mafia, only RL and that was about 4-5 years ago now. Is there really that much of a disparity in the meta between the two? live mafia = flailing around and yelling forum mafia = lynching people that flail around and yell
Well, you certainly hit the nail on the head for live mafia, so I guess I'll take your word that the meta is very different. I'm seeing some similar patterns, though, so I'll reserve final judgment for later on.
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On September 05 2014 01:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
Nah, it just doesnt sound like someone playing their first game of mafia. Lotta meta in that post. Like mafia stratagies and tendencies.
On September 05 2014 01:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
*forum mafia.
You're saying the meta between the two is similar? Templar seems to disagree. I think we're thinking along the same lines on the Micchan situation, though. I know who you're planning to lynch, but how do you feel about batsnacks' stance on the issue?
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On September 05 2014 01:40 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 01:16 Oatsmaster wrote:On September 05 2014 00:29 3d12 wrote:On September 04 2014 22:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:On September 04 2014 22:05 The_Templar wrote:On September 04 2014 21:59 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Actually I'm curious. How is asking for reads scummy?
3d, have you played forum mafia before (you might have answered this before, but I'm lazy and don't want to search) he said he played live mafia a few times, didn't say anything about forum mafia (he didn't know # of mafia) so I guess… no? Then that leads me to this question: did those who asked for other people's reads always turn out scum? Always? No. And no, asking for reads is not inherently scummy. I find the "explain why you find this important" behavior pretty scummy for D1, considering there's generally very little to find important before the first lynch. Again, this may be a difference in meta, but typically nobody's opinion is worth asking about on D1 and most people who do ask for opinions at that stage are too wrapped up in their mafia mindset to come up with an opinion of their own. This obviously wasn't the case with you, as you showed later on, but it did make me suspicious when my first posted impression of bat was taken to mean a true town read by a lot of people. Does this sound like a newbie writing it to anyone else? No... It really doesn't -.-
Thank you. I'll take that as a compliment. 
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On September 05 2014 02:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
What micchan situation.
On September 04 2014 10:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lynch all the people who overexpained their vote on micchien.
Mderg and another guy.
On September 04 2014 13:18 Oatsmaster wrote:
Obi town too.
I'm pretty sure there were at least 2 late adopters of the micchan wagon, I'll check later.
Kita come on dude, you can do better than that
The situation where we plynched someone with no real reason, creating a bandwagon which was likely easy for scum to jump on. I think we're thinking along the same lines, I just want to see where your head is at.
On September 05 2014 02:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
And what issue 3d?
On September 04 2014 06:26 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 06:16 Tehpoofter wrote:On September 04 2014 06:05 batsnacks wrote:
Picking easy targets is good they said. Lynch the low hanging fruit they said. Well now the doctor is dead and none of you have reads because the doctor never said anything. Taunting will help. Why don't you tell me what we should have done and who was most benefited by the doctor lynch? Taunting does help. It helps me cope with ya'll. We should have NOT voted the easiest possible target d1 and mafia is most benefited by the doctor lynch.
On September 04 2014 07:16 batsnacks wrote:
Dude I have never said micchan was a townie. Never. The only thing I have said about micchan, and I said it -after- the lynch, was that he was a bad lynch.
I'm just curious to see what you think of these posts. Personally, my read from them is that bats is trying to gain favor by going post-hoc on the lynch, maybe to gain traction for his kita case. What do you see?
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EPT
