• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:25
CEST 21:25
KST 04:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)41ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo23Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) ?Bug in new patch Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted SC2 Planner - The StarCraft II Build Planner [TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ STARCRAFT MOVIE - Last Night at the Command center BW General Discussion Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet
Tourneys
[BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSLAN 4 is Coming! Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Rogue Command ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 16136 users

Guilty Mini Mafia - Page 8

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 37 Next All
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 20:17 GMT
#724
On August 23 2014 05:13 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2014 05:11 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 05:01 Xatalos wrote:
Well, rayn being scum would fit though. Things like:

1) Softpushing yamato and then forgetting about it
2) Scumreading Damdred for stuff that's out of context or even blatantly false
3) Pushing me with "certainty" based on almost nothing D1 just like in Titanic as scum (granted he did something a bit similar in another game as town too)


Hm. There were exactly 2 moments in this game I was reminded of scumrayn so far. The tools thing and how he went after damdred earlier (-> reminded me of his push on ggtemplar in foundation). We will see how this goes when he returns.


I don't really think the MafiaTools stunt was scummy at all. In fact it ended up helping clear my name a bit and also made others understand my thought processes a bit better. What I mostly have problems with are 1 & 2.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 21:32 GMT
#766
On August 23 2014 05:19 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2014 05:17 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 05:13 justanothertownie wrote:
On August 23 2014 05:11 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 05:01 Xatalos wrote:
Well, rayn being scum would fit though. Things like:

1) Softpushing yamato and then forgetting about it
2) Scumreading Damdred for stuff that's out of context or even blatantly false
3) Pushing me with "certainty" based on almost nothing D1 just like in Titanic as scum (granted he did something a bit similar in another game as town too)


Hm. There were exactly 2 moments in this game I was reminded of scumrayn so far. The tools thing and how he went after damdred earlier (-> reminded me of his push on ggtemplar in foundation). We will see how this goes when he returns.


I don't really think the MafiaTools stunt was scummy at all. In fact it ended up helping clear my name a bit and also made others understand my thought processes a bit better. What I mostly have problems with are 1 & 2.

It does not look scummy but it still reminded me. If you ask yourself why look at TL Noir.

Did you talk with him beforehand about it and did you tell him you would do this kind of stuff this game?


He's been my tester for the website to write notes about Mafia games (a pretty experimental project but perhaps it could come to wider use soon as it's pretty much finished already). He must have noticed I was currently using it since I copy-pasted my notes as my first post in the game.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 21:39 GMT
#772
On August 23 2014 05:31 KelsierSC wrote:
So I wasn't here for the mafia tools stunt, it doesn't clear you for me. In fact it feeds into my scum read of you.

I'm going to give my reasons here.

1) The initial list was just bad, you had some weird reads on rayn for being asleep and you had WoS as top town. It just didn't line up for me.

2) you voted and kind of went on dam when I read him town, you then unvoted him but now think he is mafia again.

3) You then went about "finding" who to lynch and you put a town list of me and 2 basically confirmed, everyone else was a maybe. Like you gave no real reads and just seemed wishy washy

4) Your mafia notes confirmed this. Everyone has a score close to 0. Everyone could be scum or not sure if town like there is nothing of value at all. you have GB at an 8, good the confirmed town is probably town.

5) The pressure is on you and you jump onto this rayn is mafia thing that Hapu brought up even though he has lurked and done nothing.

So TLDR
Your reads don't line up with my reads. People I view as town view you scummy, Your reads are wishy washy and don't have a lot of substance. You jump on a mafia read from someone who has like 2 posts this game.

##Vote Xatalos


1) Bad != scummy. Besides it wasn't all bad, there were just a couple of questionable arguments in there since it was composed of my natural immediate thoughts instead of carefully considering what to post.

2) This is just false.

3) As scum I ALWAYS find something to push and push it neatly to emulate optimal townie behaviour (often it's even on actual scum to distance myself). Me being uncertain makes me town if anything.

4) See above.

5) Hapa just arriving to the thread doesn't mean he's suspicious. In fact I think he's very town for analysing me 100% correctly + I think he's probably correct on rayn as well. Each of his posts has been constructive and brought more original information to the thread. Why is he suspicious / useless again?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 21:56 GMT
#794
I never called rayn town. I called him null at best. The MafiaTools thing was just that I saw how he could have a town motivation for doing that.

Hapa has done more during his short time in the thread than almost any player has done throughout the whole game.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 21:59 GMT
#800
On August 23 2014 06:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why are you voting for me Xatalos?


Copied from my notes:

1) softpushing yamato awkwardly without follow-up

2) scumreading Damdred based on out of context / false reasons

3) basically just pushing suspicion everywhere and hoping it sticks somewhere
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:00 GMT
#802
On August 23 2014 06:58 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2014 06:56 Xatalos wrote:

Hapa has done more during his short time in the thread than almost any player has done throughout the whole game.

Ridiculous, holy shit.


Maybe "most players" would be more appropriate.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:03 GMT
#807
On August 23 2014 07:02 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2014 07:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Fuck. Can someone tell what i think?
Like JAT. I am so bad at this shit. I cannot explain myself. I just know who is mafia and who is not.

No, I can't. I am not sure what side to take here yet..


Switzerland represents
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:06 GMT
#814
On August 23 2014 07:04 KelsierSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2014 06:59 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 06:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why are you voting for me Xatalos?


Copied from my notes:

1) softpushing yamato awkwardly without follow-up

2) scumreading Damdred based on out of context / false reasons

3) basically just pushing suspicion everywhere and hoping it sticks somewhere


why was none of this in the notes you published, i think all the things you accused him of happened before you possted your notes


I only realized point 1 after Hapa posted it, point 2 happened later and I didn't really realize point 3 until now either (plus the lame Damdred push happened later too which contributes to point 3).
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:10 GMT
#819
On August 23 2014 07:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure Xatalos is mafia aswell. His post on me just does not make any sense.
(1) I was never soft-pushing yamato. if you think i was soft-pushing him you have been soft pushing every fucking player in the game and it makes you 12x mafia.
(2) false
(3) false


So your scumreads are Hapa, me, Damdred? That's pretty much as bad as it gets. It would only be worse if you scumread yamato too (he's pretty obvtown after the recent pages).

1) If that's not softpushing I don't know what is
2) this is certainly true as has been pointed out by others in addition to me as well
3) true since you've pushed a ton of people on weak reasons and tried to validate your pushes constantly
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:12 GMT
#822
Just as I said it would only be worse if you included yamato as well you went and did it :/
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:13 GMT
#824
On August 23 2014 07:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
then lynch me and die on N2 Xatalos.
I am telling who is mafia. I do not care if i get lynched.
Make a fucking case and push it you fucktard.


Fixed that for you.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:14 GMT
#827
On August 23 2014 07:12 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2014 07:10 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 07:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure Xatalos is mafia aswell. His post on me just does not make any sense.
(1) I was never soft-pushing yamato. if you think i was soft-pushing him you have been soft pushing every fucking player in the game and it makes you 12x mafia.
(2) false
(3) false


So your scumreads are Hapa, me, Damdred? That's pretty much as bad as it gets. It would only be worse if you scumread yamato too (he's pretty obvtown after the recent pages).

How the hell is yamato obvtown?!


yamato barely manages to post as scum and his posts are all very generic and weak. Here he's really actively posting and clearly enjoying it. I think he hates playing as scum so he never shows joy in his scumplay.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:17 GMT
#833
I think yamato even actually explained in some (scum?)QT to me once how he hates playing as scum. And it's clearly apparent from his... lacking play in the PYP Handslaps or whatever game.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:19 GMT
#839
On August 23 2014 07:18 Damdred wrote:
....xata did you do what i think you did?


?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:21 GMT
#842
On August 23 2014 07:17 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2014 07:14 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 07:12 justanothertownie wrote:
On August 23 2014 07:10 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 07:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure Xatalos is mafia aswell. His post on me just does not make any sense.
(1) I was never soft-pushing yamato. if you think i was soft-pushing him you have been soft pushing every fucking player in the game and it makes you 12x mafia.
(2) false
(3) false


So your scumreads are Hapa, me, Damdred? That's pretty much as bad as it gets. It would only be worse if you scumread yamato too (he's pretty obvtown after the recent pages).

How the hell is yamato obvtown?!


yamato barely manages to post as scum and his posts are all very generic and weak. Here he's really actively posting and clearly enjoying it. I think he hates playing as scum so he never shows joy in his scumplay.

He shows joy because Hapa defends him against rayn. He will do that regardless of alignment and apart from enforcing the push on rayn he did jackshit. I think you never saw him actually playing town.


He was town in the Vendetta Strada game and pretty useless overall but he still felt motivated and tried to do at least something. As scum... he didn't really do anything. Anything at all.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:22 GMT
#844
On August 23 2014 07:22 Damdred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2014 07:13 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 07:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
then lynch me and die on N2 Xatalos.
I am telling who is mafia. I do not care if i get lynched.
Make a fucking case and push it you fucktard.


Fixed that for you.




And?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:25 GMT
#851
On August 23 2014 07:22 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2014 07:21 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 07:17 justanothertownie wrote:
On August 23 2014 07:14 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 07:12 justanothertownie wrote:
On August 23 2014 07:10 Xatalos wrote:
On August 23 2014 07:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure Xatalos is mafia aswell. His post on me just does not make any sense.
(1) I was never soft-pushing yamato. if you think i was soft-pushing him you have been soft pushing every fucking player in the game and it makes you 12x mafia.
(2) false
(3) false


So your scumreads are Hapa, me, Damdred? That's pretty much as bad as it gets. It would only be worse if you scumread yamato too (he's pretty obvtown after the recent pages).

How the hell is yamato obvtown?!


yamato barely manages to post as scum and his posts are all very generic and weak. Here he's really actively posting and clearly enjoying it. I think he hates playing as scum so he never shows joy in his scumplay.

He shows joy because Hapa defends him against rayn. He will do that regardless of alignment and apart from enforcing the push on rayn he did jackshit. I think you never saw him actually playing town.


He was town in the Vendetta Strada game and pretty useless overall but he still felt motivated and tried to do at least something. As scum... he didn't really do anything. Anything at all.

So? Did he do anything at all in this game? No, not really.


This pretty much sums up yamato's play in that game as scum:

On March 07 2014 04:13 yamato77 wrote:
I don't have the motivation to not get lynched this game.

Whatever.


Here's he's at least given a lot of reads and expressed a lot of feelings in his posts.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:27 GMT
#856
On August 23 2014 06:00 yamato77 wrote:
Hapa picked up on the EXACT thing I picked up on.

Lol, good shit.

I want to lynch one of rayn/wave/vayne



On August 23 2014 06:01 yamato77 wrote:
xat/kels/damdred/gb all likely town

robik being robik

turtlevine is apparently confirmed to gb, so he's town

lolol ez game ez lyfe

"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:29 GMT
#861
On August 23 2014 07:29 Damdred wrote:
Nvm it felt fot a second you were soft claiming something anyway....yea tge thread atmosphere has went to crap


No I just meant that scum will likely shoot Hapa -> me. Or maybe Hapa -> jat?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
August 22 2014 22:31 GMT
#864
On August 23 2014 07:30 KelsierSC wrote:
I think Dam is town for D1 and there are better lynches.

So I was going to add that All vayne has done was make some dumb jokes and then tell people they have derailed the game or you have messed up the thread ahhh. without really giving reads himself and i didn't like that.

But now I think his read is kind of accurate, I don't agree I think Dam is down, But I will take Vane off the table for a D1 lynch.


His read is accurate and wrong? Isn't that a contradiction?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 37 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 581
UpATreeSC 176
JuggernautJason88
ProTech65
MindelVK 47
RushiSC 27
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 1483
EffOrt 634
Jaedong 532
Shuttle 453
firebathero 292
actioN 143
Dewaltoss 129
hero 73
Hyun 44
sorry 19
[ Show more ]
GoRush 10
Dota 2
qojqva1235
XaKoH 508
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps2691
fl0m2195
Other Games
Grubby3504
FrodaN1737
Harstem645
Beastyqt587
shahzam232
C9.Mang0208
Sick182
Trikslyr63
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV175
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 96
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 24
• FirePhoenix11
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1907
• TFBlade782
Other Games
• imaqtpie1116
• Shiphtur238
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
14h 35m
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 9h
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
OSC
1d 20h
Douyu Cup 2020
2 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
3 days
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4 days
Online Event
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.