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Wait rayn
Can't postyet
Need 10 min
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It's hard to believe your promise if your #2 scum is town though (when you *should* townread me if you're town I'm quite certain of that).
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On August 24 2014 00:09 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 21:18 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:55 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 20:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:27 Xatalos wrote:
So KSC you're scumreading me because 1) I'm townreading yamato 2) pushing rayn? That's really weak... Besides I already explained to you that I didn't notice rayn's softpush on yamato earlier, or maybe I noticed it but forgot it soon after... Dunno how that makes me scum. And the Damdred thing only happened AFTER I nullread rayn so that + the yamato thing Hapa noticed made me vote. It is more than that though and you trying to simplify it to make it look weak is really fucking scummy Well I already completely destroyed your earlier "case" and that's what was left of it on your most recent post about me. Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real. With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed. This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous. 1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish. 2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed. 3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy. 4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon. 5 ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town. 1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff. 2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with. 3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. 4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos. 5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it. Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense why were you so happy to sheep hapas read i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever. Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues. I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why. I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused.
I think we must just disagree on how Yam has played this game, For me he has tried to BW that push on rayn and then kind of disappeared and posted random bullshit it seems unmotivated and useless.
What bothers me most about your attack on rayn is the timing of things, I just don't like how you later posted the notes on rayn that included the thing he said about yamato, but you never even brought that up until Hapa remembered it for you. Like that seems a big thing to forget on someone you are wavering town on.
you said that everyone has a score of "-1 to 2" so I don't think any of that is concrete. Also I am curious you town reading me when I read Yam as scum and rayn as town.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On August 24 2014 00:42 Xatalos wrote:
It's hard to believe your promise if your #2 scum is town though (when you *should* townread me if you're town I'm quite certain of that).
Xat can you give me an explanation of all the town things you have done this game.
To be honest anything about your "playstyle" being similar to other town games doesn't cut it for me because you have the easiest style to mimic
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I have never wanted to lynch a townie so badly as when I read all that shit that went on las night
I absolutely hate it when you play like you have Rayn because you lynch townies probably at least as often as you lynch scum.
It's a fucking horrible way to play, I don't care how much your ego says you need to do it.
There is a point in that Hapa should have known you were going to do that though when he came in with that case; I'm pretty sure a couple of other people also predicted the OMGUS
Let it be known that I predicted this though
On August 22 2014 22:56 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2014 22:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not sure if i believe that Wave. Unless your plan is to just throw things left and right and see what happens. But i do not think you are that bad of a player. It has nothing to do with being bad Rayn. It's how I gather information and reads, and it makes the game interesting for me. I literally, LITERALLY do this shit every game. You can go ahead and believe what you want, because you will anyway. Nothing I ever say ever changes your mind, you just do it on your own when fancy strikes you. It's like marv's last-minute lynches.
On August 23 2014 01:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
fuck Wave must be town.
I guess i'll go read Damdred again after sauna.
So goddamn fucking stupif to have to go through your bullshit in more than half the games we play together, either versus me or other people when you spam up and destroy the thread.
I swear to you right now:
I am pretty frigging certain you are town, but if you come back and post like a fucking moron tonight, I WILL vote you and nobody else.
Now Hapa---Rayn is right to some degree. Hapa is not posting as I would expect from him, and there are certain things I'd expect to see from him this game that I'm not. There is some genuine feels-type stuff in his posts that I don't believe he'd be capable of as scum however (he's super fucking awkward as scum), like the whole 'suave' thing. I'm not going to go all 'only Hapa or Rayn today' because that's fucking dumb.
Yamato's obsession with me rings some bells. Constantly asking about me, saying he's reading my filter and stuff and not offering much, and then fucking off. The thing is, not only does he do this, but he complains when other people do the same.
On August 23 2014 06:08 yamato77 wrote:
it really does
and look at the way he talked about me
he's not trying to lynch me, he's just trying to make people not townread me
so fucking scummy
This is him jumping on board with Hapa's rayncase where rayn insinuates yamato is scum but drops it.
I believe yamato has done the exact same thing here; the difference between the two imo is rayn is actually active and really trying to solve the game.
Yamato jumps in, posts some shit and one-liners and genuinely does not seem to give a single fuck.
Yamato's scum MO in a nutshell.
##Vote: yamato77
A question:
Who are the people who still think rayn is scum, and why?
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On August 24 2014 00:53 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 00:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 21:18 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:55 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 20:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:27 Xatalos wrote:
So KSC you're scumreading me because 1) I'm townreading yamato 2) pushing rayn? That's really weak... Besides I already explained to you that I didn't notice rayn's softpush on yamato earlier, or maybe I noticed it but forgot it soon after... Dunno how that makes me scum. And the Damdred thing only happened AFTER I nullread rayn so that + the yamato thing Hapa noticed made me vote. It is more than that though and you trying to simplify it to make it look weak is really fucking scummy Well I already completely destroyed your earlier "case" and that's what was left of it on your most recent post about me. Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real. With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed. This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous. 1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish. 2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed. 3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy. 4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon. 5 ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town. 1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff. 2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with. 3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. 4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos. 5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it. Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense why were you so happy to sheep hapas read i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever. Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues. I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why. I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused. I think we must just disagree on how Yam has played this game, For me he has tried to BW that push on rayn and then kind of disappeared and posted random bullshit it seems unmotivated and useless. What bothers me most about your attack on rayn is the timing of things, I just don't like how you later posted the notes on rayn that included the thing he said about yamato, but you never even brought that up until Hapa remembered it for you. Like that seems a big thing to forget on someone you are wavering town on. you said that everyone has a score of "-1 to 2" so I don't think any of that is concrete. Also I am curious you town reading me when I read Yam as scum and rayn as town.
You can be wrong and town. It happens all the time, especially since you don't know me or anyone else here. By the way currently my points go from -3 to 3. Even so I'm really a bit conservative with my points. Even GB & turtlevine are only 8 when they're pretty much confirmed. An extreme townread would be something like 5 or 6.
Hm. Well I guess we'll see about yamato. It's a bit hard to explain, but his tone is just so different. In the PYP game all his posts were bored / resigned. Here he's actually excited to play (that's the feeling I got). I can't say he hasn't been useless, but he's useless as town too.
I'm not completely sure what you mean there? Obviously I added the scummy 1&2&3 points to my notes only *after* I thought of them - when Damdred had just made his push on Damdred and Hapa had started his push. It's not like I had them in my notes all along (LOL how could that even be possible - the Damdred thing happened way after I posted my notes earlier).
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On August 24 2014 01:08 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 00:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 24 2014 00:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 21:18 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:55 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 20:54 KelsierSC wrote:
[quote]
It is more than that though and you trying to simplify it to make it look weak is really fucking scummy Well I already completely destroyed your earlier "case" and that's what was left of it on your most recent post about me. Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real. With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed. This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous. 1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish. 2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed. 3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy. 4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon. 5 ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town. 1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff. 2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with. 3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. 4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos. 5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it. Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense why were you so happy to sheep hapas read i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever. Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues. I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why. I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused. I think we must just disagree on how Yam has played this game, For me he has tried to BW that push on rayn and then kind of disappeared and posted random bullshit it seems unmotivated and useless. What bothers me most about your attack on rayn is the timing of things, I just don't like how you later posted the notes on rayn that included the thing he said about yamato, but you never even brought that up until Hapa remembered it for you. Like that seems a big thing to forget on someone you are wavering town on. you said that everyone has a score of "-1 to 2" so I don't think any of that is concrete. Also I am curious you town reading me when I read Yam as scum and rayn as town. You can be wrong and town. It happens all the time, especially since you don't know me or anyone else here. By the way currently my points go from -3 to 3. Even so I'm really a bit conservative with my points. Even GB & turtlevine are only 8 when they're pretty much confirmed. An extreme townread would be something like 5 or 6. Hm. Well I guess we'll see about yamato. It's a bit hard to explain, but his tone is just so different. In the PYP game all his posts were bored / resigned. Here he's actually excited to play (that's the feeling I got). I can't say he hasn't been useless, but he's useless as town too. I'm not completely sure what you mean there? Obviously I added the scummy 1&2&3 points to my notes only *after* I thought of them - when Damdred had just made his push on Damdred and Hapa had started his push. It's not like I had them in my notes all along (LOL how could that even be possible - the Damdred thing happened way after I posted my notes earlier).
With the notes thing I am specifically talking about the yamato thing., you posted notes once that didnt have the yamato question but the 2nd notes you posted did, this was way after the original question rayn asked.
Your reads are just too different to mine at the moment Xat.
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On August 24 2014 00:54 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 00:42 Xatalos wrote:
It's hard to believe your promise if your #2 scum is town though (when you *should* townread me if you're town I'm quite certain of that). Xat can you give me an explanation of all the town things you have done this game. To be honest anything about your "playstyle" being similar to other town games doesn't cut it for me because you have the easiest style to mimic
I guess. Not sure what good it does coming from me specifically though.
1) Biggest filter (basically never (was jat filter the biggest in Championship though?) comes from scum because it's harder to post fake posts than to genuinely post whatever you think)
2) Went through tons of past games and filters to help with my reads
3) Participated in every possible discussion topic
4) Gave my opinion on anything asked openly
5) Went through the effort of writing down stuff from the thread and constantly, I mean constantly evaluating my reads
From the top of my head
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On August 24 2014 01:12 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 01:08 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 00:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 24 2014 00:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 21:18 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 20:55 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
Well I already completely destroyed your earlier "case" and that's what was left of it on your most recent post about me. Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real. With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed. This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous. 1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish. 2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed. 3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy. 4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon. 5 ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town. 1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff. 2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with. 3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. 4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos. 5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it. Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense why were you so happy to sheep hapas read i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever. Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues. I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why. I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused. I think we must just disagree on how Yam has played this game, For me he has tried to BW that push on rayn and then kind of disappeared and posted random bullshit it seems unmotivated and useless. What bothers me most about your attack on rayn is the timing of things, I just don't like how you later posted the notes on rayn that included the thing he said about yamato, but you never even brought that up until Hapa remembered it for you. Like that seems a big thing to forget on someone you are wavering town on. you said that everyone has a score of "-1 to 2" so I don't think any of that is concrete. Also I am curious you town reading me when I read Yam as scum and rayn as town. You can be wrong and town. It happens all the time, especially since you don't know me or anyone else here. By the way currently my points go from -3 to 3. Even so I'm really a bit conservative with my points. Even GB & turtlevine are only 8 when they're pretty much confirmed. An extreme townread would be something like 5 or 6. Hm. Well I guess we'll see about yamato. It's a bit hard to explain, but his tone is just so different. In the PYP game all his posts were bored / resigned. Here he's actually excited to play (that's the feeling I got). I can't say he hasn't been useless, but he's useless as town too. I'm not completely sure what you mean there? Obviously I added the scummy 1&2&3 points to my notes only *after* I thought of them - when Damdred had just made his push on Damdred and Hapa had started his push. It's not like I had them in my notes all along (LOL how could that even be possible - the Damdred thing happened way after I posted my notes earlier). With the notes thing I am specifically talking about the yamato thing., you posted notes once that didnt have the yamato question but the 2nd notes you posted did, this was way after the original question rayn asked. Your reads are just too different to mine at the moment Xat.
Could you explain your current reads in full? I'll give you my opinion on them.
Yeah I didn't notice the yamato point in rayn's filter since it was so huge until Hapa brought it up. I only added it to my notes after Hapa mentioned it. Not really sure what's unclear here.
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So earlier on I said that WoS would be a good lynch but now I am pretty convinced he is town.
I already said I didn't like the early game from him but I think he has done enough now to get my town pass. Specifically.
He brought up some good points about Dama, I still think dama is town but WoS had accurate reads on him.
He never really trusted Yam and now he voted on him and brought up more good points, I also think Yam is scum I really like this read.
I think he is frustrated with rayn but still reads him town, I have the same read
His last post seemed really well thought out and his analysis of Hapa seemed well constructed ALTHOUGH I don't have experience with Hapa so im not sure if it is true.
Xat but him as a +4 early, I think xat is scum, I don't think Xat would +4 a partner that early.
He voted on Yam who is a top lynch of mine.
TLDR - WoS is really town
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On August 24 2014 01:17 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 01:12 KelsierSC wrote:On August 24 2014 01:08 Xatalos wrote:On August 24 2014 00:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 24 2014 00:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:On August 23 2014 21:18 KelsierSC wrote:
[quote]
Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real.
With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed. This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous. 1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish. 2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed. 3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy. 4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon. 5 ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town. 1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff. 2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with. 3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed. 4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos. 5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it. Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense why were you so happy to sheep hapas read i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever. Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues. I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why. I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused. I think we must just disagree on how Yam has played this game, For me he has tried to BW that push on rayn and then kind of disappeared and posted random bullshit it seems unmotivated and useless. What bothers me most about your attack on rayn is the timing of things, I just don't like how you later posted the notes on rayn that included the thing he said about yamato, but you never even brought that up until Hapa remembered it for you. Like that seems a big thing to forget on someone you are wavering town on. you said that everyone has a score of "-1 to 2" so I don't think any of that is concrete. Also I am curious you town reading me when I read Yam as scum and rayn as town. You can be wrong and town. It happens all the time, especially since you don't know me or anyone else here. By the way currently my points go from -3 to 3. Even so I'm really a bit conservative with my points. Even GB & turtlevine are only 8 when they're pretty much confirmed. An extreme townread would be something like 5 or 6. Hm. Well I guess we'll see about yamato. It's a bit hard to explain, but his tone is just so different. In the PYP game all his posts were bored / resigned. Here he's actually excited to play (that's the feeling I got). I can't say he hasn't been useless, but he's useless as town too. I'm not completely sure what you mean there? Obviously I added the scummy 1&2&3 points to my notes only *after* I thought of them - when Damdred had just made his push on Damdred and Hapa had started his push. It's not like I had them in my notes all along (LOL how could that even be possible - the Damdred thing happened way after I posted my notes earlier). With the notes thing I am specifically talking about the yamato thing., you posted notes once that didnt have the yamato question but the 2nd notes you posted did, this was way after the original question rayn asked. Your reads are just too different to mine at the moment Xat. Could you explain your current reads in full? I'll give you my opinion on them. Yeah I didn't notice the yamato point in rayn's filter since it was so huge until Hapa brought it up. I only added it to my notes after Hapa mentioned it. Not really sure what's unclear here.
Basically you were wavering on Rayn and finding it hard to read him so missing out the point about yamato which is now a major crux of your scum read just doesn't add up to me. Like if it is now such a big deal how did you miss it before.
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As for my reads
Town - Dam,GB,Turtle,JAT,VA,WoS,rayn,Hapa
Scum - Yam,Xat
null - Onegu
Obviously one of town reads is wrong but for d1 i like to make a big town circle and eliminate from there.
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On August 24 2014 01:22 KelsierSC wrote:
As for my reads
Town - Dam,GB,Turtle,JAT,VA,WoS,rayn,Hapa
Scum - Yam,Xat
null - Onegu
Obviously one of town reads is wrong but for d1 i like to make a big town circle and eliminate from there.
legit list besides xat being scum I disagree there. I think id replace Dam or Hapa especially after he retracted the rayn read. I don't think he expected quite that kind of reaction.
I like that you kept onegu null lets me know you are actually reading the thread considering he hasn't given anything of substance yet.
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On August 24 2014 01:18 KelsierSC wrote:
So earlier on I said that WoS would be a good lynch but now I am pretty convinced he is town.
I already said I didn't like the early game from him but I think he has done enough now to get my town pass. Specifically.
He brought up some good points about Dama, I still think dama is town but WoS had accurate reads on him.
He never really trusted Yam and now he voted on him and brought up more good points, I also think Yam is scum I really like this read.
I think he is frustrated with rayn but still reads him town, I have the same read
His last post seemed really well thought out and his analysis of Hapa seemed well constructed ALTHOUGH I don't have experience with Hapa so im not sure if it is true.
Xat but him as a +4 early, I think xat is scum, I don't think Xat would +4 a partner that early.
He voted on Yam who is a top lynch of mine.
TLDR - WoS is really town
SO you really completely re-evaluated your read on me based on one post?
I'm not a huge fan of how all of your reads seem to be entirely based on whether they agree with you or not.
Pretty terrible heuristic imo.
Also VA do I detect a hint of tryhard? You scum?
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I like your yamato point wave, he did something similar in showdown but people asked for his reads and he never gave them when he was scum....
And i'm undecided if Rayn is scum, he is trying to antagonize people, and is pushing my buttons that he knows he can push. I was leaning towards him being town but i'm just unsure he did a lot of these same tactics in the titanic this past time when he was mafia. He does have a big filter but a lot of it is spamming the same useless stuff over and over and hes capable of having a big filter as mafia I just don't know what I think because i'm upset with him
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On August 24 2014 01:34 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 01:18 KelsierSC wrote:
So earlier on I said that WoS would be a good lynch but now I am pretty convinced he is town.
I already said I didn't like the early game from him but I think he has done enough now to get my town pass. Specifically.
He brought up some good points about Dama, I still think dama is town but WoS had accurate reads on him.
He never really trusted Yam and now he voted on him and brought up more good points, I also think Yam is scum I really like this read.
I think he is frustrated with rayn but still reads him town, I have the same read
His last post seemed really well thought out and his analysis of Hapa seemed well constructed ALTHOUGH I don't have experience with Hapa so im not sure if it is true.
Xat but him as a +4 early, I think xat is scum, I don't think Xat would +4 a partner that early.
He voted on Yam who is a top lynch of mine.
TLDR - WoS is really town
SO you really completely re-evaluated your read on me based on one post? I'm not a huge fan of how all of your reads seem to be entirely based on whether they agree with you or not. Pretty terrible heuristic imo. Also VA do I detect a hint of tryhard? You scum?
No it wasn't one post, I checked your filter and I liked your points about Dama, I also think you brought up some points about yamata which I agreed with. I think your post and your vote were good so you are definitely not a lynch for me today
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On August 24 2014 01:42 Damdred wrote:
I like your yamato point wave, he did something similar in showdown but people asked for his reads and he never gave them when he was scum....
And i'm undecided if Rayn is scum, he is trying to antagonize people, and is pushing my buttons that he knows he can push. I was leaning towards him being town but i'm just unsure he did a lot of these same tactics in the titanic this past time when he was mafia. He does have a big filter but a lot of it is spamming the same useless stuff over and over and hes capable of having a big filter as mafia I just don't know what I think because i'm upset with him
Rayn doesn't push buttons on purpose afaik, he's just pretty abrasive in general. People like Palmar do.
I haven't read Titanic but I think even Rayn would be pretty hard pressed to replicate play like this as scum.
I have to read you again again Damdred because as I was catching up I remember feeling better about you but I don't remember why.
VA, thoughts on Rayn. Is it possible for him to be scum with this filter?
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Part of my reads are based on people who are reading the game the same way as me, not all of it though.
Otherwise why are Hapa and Rayn both in my town list.
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On August 24 2014 01:46 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2014 01:34 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 24 2014 01:18 KelsierSC wrote:
So earlier on I said that WoS would be a good lynch but now I am pretty convinced he is town.
I already said I didn't like the early game from him but I think he has done enough now to get my town pass. Specifically.
He brought up some good points about Dama, I still think dama is town but WoS had accurate reads on him.
He never really trusted Yam and now he voted on him and brought up more good points, I also think Yam is scum I really like this read.
I think he is frustrated with rayn but still reads him town, I have the same read
His last post seemed really well thought out and his analysis of Hapa seemed well constructed ALTHOUGH I don't have experience with Hapa so im not sure if it is true.
Xat but him as a +4 early, I think xat is scum, I don't think Xat would +4 a partner that early.
He voted on Yam who is a top lynch of mine.
TLDR - WoS is really town
SO you really completely re-evaluated your read on me based on one post? I'm not a huge fan of how all of your reads seem to be entirely based on whether they agree with you or not. Pretty terrible heuristic imo. Also VA do I detect a hint of tryhard? You scum? No it wasn't one post, I checked your filter and I liked your points about Dama, I also think you brought up some points about yamata which I agreed with. I think your post and your vote were good so you are definitely not a lynch for me today
My points about Damdred were before I left early yesterday and after you had continued to call me scum since.
The Xat point is something I've been dwelling on, btw. I don't know what this mafia tools shit is, but to me it looks like it should make Xat all-but-confirmed town. Otherwise the +4 is and always has been fishy. I may end up attempting to ignore the copy paste thing and filter diving him as well.
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I am xapable of having the biggest filter in a game as mafia. Don't usw it to read me.
Wave.... 
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EPT
