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[W] Newbie LVIII - Disney Princess Mafia
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I see people have taken note of my name already - which is lovely. Seems like timezones are quite an issue in this game, as the voting was very close and in the end the less fortunate time for me was voted in, and due to this the phases change at *drumroll* 4 am for me. Which is awesome + Show Spoiler + not really Hopefully the reason that a few people have not posted yet is the timezones, as it sucks quite hard if people have to be replaced early on due to inactivity.. I have read quite a lot through the previous newbie game, though not the first days (when Jenny was still alive). I might have to look more into it later. I also want to note that I am usually quite vocal in my games and like to push people who I find suspicious. (Push hard if the regular pushes have no effect on getting a reaction from the person in question.) I want to start this all off with a few simple questions for you guys - What alignment did you get?(town or scum) What were you hoping to get? What do you think of the Lynch all Lurkers and Lynch all Liars policies? | ||
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On August 26 2014 16:51 JennyHell wrote: You said you've read quite a lot of the previous newbie game, but not the first days. Was it someone in particular you were trying to get info on by doing that? Because only 3 of the people from the previous game is currently playing and if you say "Not the first days" dayS, means more than 1 right? I died n1, and meatpicture was lynched d2, so the only one you could possibly have seen that might be benificial for this game is lilwade. I'd defo urge you to read day 1 and 2 as well, otherwise your dive into the previous game is almost completely fruitless. Just fyi. I did not dive into them, I just followed the game as it happened(started following when it was about mid-way), when I wanted to find out how does mafia even happen in a forum environment. I will definitely read the first two days later. On August 26 2014 16:55 MihZaaa wrote: To answer your questions abuse: Nobody will answer scum and even if they do, a little bit of trolling I don't think is alignment indicative, if anything it gives me more town vibes. you'd be surprised what you can get from these questions. Just to be clear - I am a supporter of Lynch all Liars and Lynch all Lurkers, if I do not have a clear scumread on someone by the time it's time to vote. In my mind, there is no real time when a townie lying would benefit town, so I would urge you not to do so, because if I catch you, I will push you. And chances are you will be scum when you flip afterwards. I have also recently played with a very annoying lurker, who just deflected all questions and did not really give any information at all to town. Behavior like this will also be pushed HARD. Hopefully we get a good town atmosphere going where everyone is open about their thoughts and reads so scum has nowhere to hide. Have fun peeps~ | ||
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Fair enough - I am town and was hoping for a town power role. Waiting for your answer to this also. As for the policies, I have explained my stance a little above. You seem to have a bit little different view on the lynch all liars policy. How I see is, if you get caught lying - not explain it yourself, beforehand, and why you are changing your mind, then it is scummy and you deserve a lynch. Town does not have a reason to lie, without a reason (if you catch my drift). If a lie like that is caught, then this policy would take effect. | ||
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1) to get your thoughts out, so people can have a peek into each others brains a little 2) to make sure people were on the same end of the stick as me, when it comes to what constitues a "liar" and what constitues a "lurker". One of the things being - I don't mind lurkers as much if they are just inactive. I do on the other half mind a lurker that is being called out but keeps ignoring questions. I have had this happen in another game and it is very annoying and I will not tolerate this. 3) See how people react to the policies, as well as what alignments would they prefer to play. While it seems like it does not matter, since you can lie easily about what alignment you would want to play, I have found that knowing this information helps you paint a picture of a player.(for example, compare your answer of the first question to MihZaaa) Later down the game you can use this as a tool to see if they match it or not. I really do not have a problem with answering these questions myself, but how often do you really see people asking questions to others while answering them themselves at first? It also served a double purpose, to see who would call me out on it and how soon would it happen. Happened pretty soon, which is good. Is everyone else really sleeping at the moment? we have only done 2 pages of in-game content in the first... many hours, and the previous newbie game had 30 pages in 1 day, let's step it up! All in all @Barakos, I like what you're saying. Hopefully this level of openness will stick to everyone here. | ||
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Might want to read my stuff again, I didn't promise a read from the previous mafia game, I said I would read the first 2 days of that game aswell, to keep myself informed on what happened there. I also did not mean to push any policies, along with all the "garbage". I just mentioned them. Also - You keep saying I am asking for reads and give none in return - I actually did not ask any reads from anyone yet( as far as I remember) and I also fully understand that it is much too early to post any real reads. There has been barely any development at all yet. I also completely disagree on your rating. Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses. Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral. I feel like you rush way too much and do not read into stuff enough, while are trying to make the impression that you do. Which on the other half sounds like someone who would want to push a mislynch. Though there are no real reads possible at the moment, I feel a townie vibe from the exact opposite people you do. I feel that Barakos and Mihzaaa give townie vibes, because they give thought out posts and pose questions in a non attacking manner, unlike you. Jenny seems neutral, since most of the stuff she says is positive(read: happy'ish) yet does not really show anything much about her alignment at the moment. Though I will agree that she does not give any scum vibes yet. | ||
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On August 27 2014 04:17 Barakos wrote: Mind to talk a little about abuse? From your giant post I get, that you also didn't like the way he brought the discussion about policies into the thread. Are you with me, when i say that it looks kind of scummy and seems like he is trying to find out, if it is ok to lurk? Or do you think there is the possibility I am overreading things and he just made it sound a little weird? I really think this is a little silly, since I already mentioned many times that I plan to be vocal in this game, I also mentioned that I have had a game with a very annoying lurker, so I will push lurkers. Seems like a waste of time, and a waste of a discussion to think if I plan to lurk or not, since you can just see it later, and punish that. The same way I plan to (Do take note that I find lurking to be something slightly different than you - lurking in my book is when someone does not reply to your questions or does not reply with an actual answer.) | ||
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Off to work now, but will probably read this through better at work and answer when I get home. | ||
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First off- I am not a fan of super long posts. They are confusing and have way too much information to handle in one read at least for me. It would have been much better if you had split your post at least with a single post per person you are analyzing. This is also why this post it will be a pain for everyone, because I need to quote you..(and it will be a disaster, but please bare(sp?) with me) [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 05:54 Superbia wrote: Superbia's thesis® on why abuse is mafia: [QUOTE]On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:I have read quite a lot through the previous newbie game, though not the first days (when Jenny was still alive). I might have to look more into it later.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: Alright, so you're making an easy promise because according to post #167, you aren't actually going to do shit with the information in a way that's positive for town. Sounds like a good excuse for a time sink (I didn't do anything because I was studying the other thread!). [/quote] This is 100% speculation. You are being very cutthroat on something I have not even done, but you just assume that I will. Why would you base your arguments on this? [QUOTE]On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:I also want to note that I am usually quite vocal in my games and like to push people who I find suspicious. (Push hard if the regular pushes have no effect on getting a reaction from the person in question.)[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: As I've said before, this can definitely be seen as a preface for scummy play. Why would you tell us what your playstyle is? How useful is this for town? It sounds like something you can fall back on when you've made a bad (i.e. scummy) play. [/quote] I can tell you what my playstyle is because I want to. Or because I am a newbie. People are not so stupid to allow anyone to fall back on something like this, if you make a scummy play. If you make a scummy play, you have made a scummy play. That should be enough to push a person. I don't know what you read, but as far as I see this statement, it seems that I will push people who do not play like a townie should. Why would you assume(later) that I be scum based on this? This is not logical at all. [QUOTE]On August 26 2014 17:06 abuse wrote: In my mind, there is no real time when a townie lying would benefit town, so I would urge you not to do so, because if I catch you, I will push you. And chances are you will be scum when you flip afterwards. I have also recently played with a very annoying lurker, who just deflected all questions and did not really give any information at all to town. Behavior like this will also be pushed HARD. Hopefully we get a good town atmosphere going where everyone is open about their thoughts and reads so scum has nowhere to hide. Have fun peeps~[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: Sounds like a preface for getting easy miss-lynches and blaming it on lying/lurking. Lynch all lurkers is "ok". Lynch all liars is garbage. I already fucking lied (gave misinformation about my points), where's the HARD push, huh? [/quote] Did you even read this part yourself before you commented it? If I catch you it means that I will push. That is what I said. I did not mention at any point that I want to enduce(?) a lynch all liars or lynch all lurkers in this thread. If you lied then you made a scummy play. Others have noticed. The push will come. [QUOTE]On August 26 2014 23:31 abuse wrote: My reason for asking about lynching liars and lurkers served 3 purposes. 1) to get your thoughts out, so people can have a peek into each others brains a little 2) to make sure people were on the same end of the stick as me, when it comes to what constitues a "liar" and what constitues a "lurker". One of the things being - I don't mind lurkers as much if they are just inactive. I do on the other half mind a lurker that is being called out but keeps ignoring questions. I have had this happen in another game and it is very annoying and I will not tolerate this. 3) See how people react to the policies, as well as what alignments would they prefer to play. While it seems like it does not matter, since you can lie easily about what alignment you would want to play, I have found that knowing this information helps you paint a picture of a player.(for example, compare your answer of the first question to MihZaaa) Later down the game you can use this as a tool to see if they match it or not.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: Why reveal this? And why so early? This makes no sense as town. You should at least wait until everyone has answered the questions. And on that note, despite requests, abuse still hasn't answered all of them. [/quote] Does it make sense as scum? (hint: no) Does it make sense as a newbie, playing his first newbie game in TL? ( :OOOO ) Also - I revealed this to let other people use this information to a good standard later themselves, and not discuss useless topics like why would i ask a general question. Also, as mentioned before by others, I have answered all of the questions myself, instantly when prompted. If you pride yourself on reading my posts, and blaming me for not reading yours, you should have known this. This also proves my point that you are rushing, and throwing out accusations all over the place. Also seems like you are making these super large posts on purpose, because nobody would actually quote your bs, to prove you wrong (especially in a newbie game where people might not know TL's formatting well, it also takes up a lot of time and effort.) [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: Furthermore, to me, this makes it feel like there is much more substance behind the questions than there actually is. Don't get me wrong, I kind of liked the question behind lynching liars and lurkers, but it could also be used to distract town and eat time. The real question is: what have you gotten from the answers and how does it contribute to town?[/quote] If you liked it then why are you pushing me about this? I have gotten what I have already mentioned before - basic picture of what a player is like, along with actual mafia-related stuff started being talked about, not useless chatter about other games and whatnot. [QUOTE]On August 26 2014 23:31 abuse wrote:I really do not have a problem with answering these questions myself, but how often do you really see people asking questions to others while answering them themselves at first? It also served a double purpose, to see who would call me out on it and how soon would it happen. Happened pretty soon, which is good.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: What use is it to look out for who calls him out for it? Is it alignment indicative? Hint: the answer is no. [/quote] It is slightly alignment indicative, but it indicates more who plays how. Who notices stuff what they are supposed to notice. Stuff like this needs to be called out, but there is a large difference in HOW you get called out on it. Scum and town would do it in different ways. One way- how town would do it, is ask about it and after they get an answer they would understand. The other way - how scum would do it - is latch on to this detail for all eternity and push that this is what scum would do. hence what you are doing now. [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote: I also did not mean to push any policies, along with all the "garbage". I just mentioned them. Also - You keep saying I am asking for reads and give none in return - I actually did not ask any reads from anyone yet( as far as I remember) and I also fully understand that it is much too early to post any real reads. There has been barely any development at all yet.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: What? There's plenty to read (alright, not that much, but what?). I gave no reads in return? Did you even read my post? Or are you not interested in what town has to say? Red flag right here. Also, you didn't ask any reads from anyone yet, so it's okay not to provide any of your own? Not asking people shit is a bad sign, by the way. [/quote] I didn't say you gave no reads. I said that you are saying that I ask for reads and not give any in return. Please read posts more carefully before you flag someone. There might be plenty of information to make reads from now, but not when I made that post, as discussions were only beginning. [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:I also completely disagree on your rating. Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses. Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: Another part that makes it blatantly obvious that you only skimmed over my post. Did you just crtl+f "scum" or something? [/quote] I dont understand your argument. Why is something like that "blatantly obvious" here? [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:I feel like you rush way too much and do not read into stuff enough, while are trying to make the impression that you do. Which on the other half sounds like someone who would want to push a mislynch.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: How do I "rush too much"? You mean giving opinions and reads? Are you not happy that I'm giving a shitload of data (not all of it being good, granted), even though you complained about "no people being around". [quote] You rush too much by not actually giving any good reads. Your arguments are flawed and are often based on stuff that you think will happen in the future, but have not actually happened yet , not to mention most of it was "alright" and jokes. You misread what people are saying and you do not even read most of what they are saying, and are trying to cause chaos that way. Your extremely large posts do not help either. It might seem like something that scum wouldn't do, because hey, scum wouldn't put that much effort because they want to stay under the radar, right? Scum can. You did. I do not have a problem with the fact that you are giving a shitload of data, it is what I wanted to achieve with my first questions after all. My problem is with the data you give. Your data is like a biased TV news network. You put everything in your light, and try to make wagons, by making people think like you want them to think, presenting all of the information in your biased perspective, not just poking at weak parts of others plays, letting others notice it and make their own judgement on the matter. This is scummy in my book. [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote: Though there are no real reads possible at the moment, I feel a townie vibe from the exact opposite people you do. I feel that Barakos and Mihzaaa give townie vibes, because they give thought out posts and pose questions in a non attacking manner, unlike you. Jenny seems neutral, since most of the stuff she says is positive(read: happy'ish) yet does not really show anything much about her alignment at the moment. Though I will agree that she does not give any scum vibes yet.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: How the fuck do you claim that there are no real reads, but still get townie vibes from people? You got a different kind of information source than me (i.e. know who is town)? Exact opposite from me? Again, didn't even read my fucking town circle. [/quote] How the fuck do you manage to find it bad and scummy, both when I say that there are no real reads available, AND when I post my thoughts on people? You also seem to find it bad and scummy, that by your mind, I do not give thoughts on others (though I do). Why do you find EVERYTHING I DO scummy? Why do you want everyone to think that? [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: Furthermore, after all the interactions that happened, you have no reads? What the fuck? [/quote] Yet the very quote above this shows what are my "kind of reads" at that moment. That is all I had then. Now I have more, and I will post them later on everyone in one post. [QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote: ##Vote: abuse [/quote] Ridicullous. So tell me, will you please add some more sense to your posts, instead of just taking some sentences that someone said, and try to make them look as scummy as possible? Posts about others and a full readlist + my vote coming up later. | ||
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Oh how I like this post of yours, and can relate to it so well.. On August 26 2014 16:55 MihZaaa wrote:Was hoping to get a power roll of some sort because sometimes defending yourself as vanilla town can be very frustrating when you don't convince people that have gotten fixated on you. I liked his answers on the lurker and liar subject. Sounds reasonable, and even though the answer to the very first question was a bit snarky, overall this post gives me town vibes. His reply to Jenny was also good in my mind, he also comments that she talks a lot, while not grabbing her throat for it, his reply also signals that he is more into it for investigative purposes, not for attacking her for it. Also - missed your question as to why I prefer town power roles. I prefer them because they give you slightly more information than a vt townie, as long as an extra ability that can shift the game if needed, while still gives you the opportunity to hunt scum. I really like that Mihzaaa called Superbia out a little on him poking at a soft cop claim. I think this is not acceptable, because if scum did not notice it before, they did now. This does not imply superbia to be scum though, quite the opposite, it makes him a little towny(who made a blunder, because that basically puts a target on meat's back on N1), because scum would just discuss this privately in the night phase. No need to let everyone know that it has been noticed. I also very much like how he calls out Superbia on the same thing I did in my previous post - giving negative points to stuff he expects to happen, which hasnt happened yet. I saw you "gave town points" to Superbia for saying "Let's not get sidetracked with this policy garbage". Do you still think this is valid? Do you think Superbia didn't get sidetracked with this? Do you think that superbia is not one of the people who actually are the most sidetracked by this, and are actively mentioning these over and over again? One thing I don't quite understand about your thoughts is, you say that you agree to what I have said, and like it a lotfind it a good policy to push but not harrass, inquire but not interrogate. You have put Superbia in your town circle at that point. Do you think this still applies to what he has posted? why exactly do you think he deserves a lynch less than me, even though he was the cause of all the "heavy" and "aggressive" that you said you are not a fan of? While you say that your most valid lynch candidate currently is me, even though you say that I helped town. Do you think this is good logic to go by? Overall I feel like his opinions are sincere, he is trying to help town with his actions. He explains most of the stuff he does with good reasoning behind it. Would bang, not marry. | ||
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On August 26 2014 22:29 Barakos wrote: On Abuse: I didn't like you posting questions before answering them yourself... especially the ones, where you ask for the opinions on lurker- and liar-lynches.. It looks to me, as if you were trying to get yourselft the permission to lurk for a while... granted: you answered your questions when you were asked, still I found this a bit odd and will keep an eye on you. What did you notice about me so far, while keeping an eye on me? On August 27 2014 03:06 Barakos wrote: How do you read what meatpudding said about looking into Jennys heart to see her true alignment as a cop-softclaim? I mean... I can see how you could come to this conclusion, but to me this all sounds in line with the fluff the whole post was written in. So this seems a little far fetched. To be honest I find it pretty suspicious to talk people into (soft-)roleclaims before the first End of Day... feels like putting a crosshair on their back for the first night and the last thing I would want to do is make scums job of powerrole-hunting any easier. Maybe you might want to be a bit more careful with such conclusions? Unless of course I am missing sth... please guide me through the darkness, good fairy! Very good. Very very good. he was the first one to notice that the cop-softclaim and calls superbia out on it. Major town points from me. This post overall reeks of town. It is thought out. He calls out what needs to be called out. He questions Superbia, but does not attack him directly. Good. His questioning about my motives seems legit aswell, though I did not like that he did not ask me(or anyone else except superbia) about them. On August 27 2014 03:06 Barakos wrote: 3rd and 4th quote and your reaction: You are absolutely right. Anybody calling you out for not giving any reads and not being consistant with your opinion is not reading your posts close enough. I have explained this in one of my last posts, (the huge one) how does your opinion change, when you see that it was not what was implied by superbia? I like that you called out Superbia, in the same post, that I did answer the questions, unlike what he was implying. Why do you see why meatpudding does not trust jenny completely, but do not see why I don't? Overall - Town read. Would bang. Probably more than once. I like the way his posts are done. I like how he does pretty good detective work, I like how he does not accuse in a negative manner. I think that even if he turns out scum in the end, which I don't really think will happen, but still, his input is helpful to town. | ||
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Not much to see, as he has not put much input yet, but his reads seem okay to me. Would definitely like to hear more reads that he said he would give later. I agree with his read on Barakos to an extent, and I like that he sees what I have done in a positive light. Null at the moment, because even though I generally agree with his reads so far, I want more of them on more people. Some of the people who were not mentioned have been quite vocal. | ||
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His reply to my initial first 4 questions satisfies me deeply (no perv intended) He is giving an experienced player vibe, even though this is a newbie game. He seems to be the only person to actually read my posts how I intended them to be read, and does good analysis of the situation. Same as Barakos, even if he turns out to be scum in the end(which I also do not believe to be the case), I think having him along the way will still help town a lot. His posts are logical and have meaning behind them. He does not try to ignore questions and try to negatively push any flaws he sees in others' posts. He asks about them instead of attacking. Also - I do not see him to be the cop, I do see him as town though. | ||
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My read on him is quite complex, but for the sake of simplicity I would like to call him null for now. As for the other things, what he says and analyzes are to my liking, though they are not anything big in particular. I like his jump on gobbledygook. I am a little concerned about one thing wade said, but will not bring it to light yet, as I need more info. Either way - If the tables would suddenly turn in this thread, I would not be okay with lynching him today. | ||
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Well. I like Jenny as a person. I like the way she plays, though her posts did have a lot of fluff. I mainly see her as null, but have started yank her slightly towards town. She does give her input, but none of it is aimed to largely impact anything. I like that she does reply to every question she has been asked, and she does not do it half-heartedly, but with thought out posts. What she says does make sense, though she has not really made a big play yet in my opinion. I would love to see Jenny's current read list compilation on everyone involved. | ||
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