Normal Mini Mafia LVI - Page 2

On June 19 2014 14:26 Snickers wrote:


at this point I see only lies in your posts. I will let the others decide.I really would encourage you to show me where your case is on me and where i dismiss or ignore your points.

Very funny how you now say these other names after i ridicule you on trying to focus on one. Too bad it is all lies.

On June 19 2014 15:01 Release wrote:
I quoted it for you and you still didn't read it.
"@Lazer
Someone whom I think is a stronger candidate for mafia outside YKZ is Snickers. At the beginning of the game, he casts suspsicion on 27nb following YKZ, supports the Kenpachi rule and encourages further discussion of it. Then he makes some slightly unclear buddy up to YKZ posts. Then he supports me, the he flipflops on me following a not so good case on me by artansis. He harps quite a bit on the "information" and blue talk even after I try multiple times to dissuade him from doing so. He even says "I am leaning pretty hard to vote for you. Especially when two people have posted how your post had such a great timing." And if that weren't enough, he hops straight onto the Mderg train. This is a little bit of bluehunting covered by a boatload of bandwagoning. His agenda feels like one in which he wants to blend into the town instead of making his own reads and arguments. At first, I pardoned him because he wasn't as stubborn as YKZ but this level of bandwagoning suggests to me that he is more likely scum than town."


It sounded like you want opinions on everyone. Do you now not want me to give my opinions? Say one thing then imply the other so you can move either way in the future and not appear suspicious? Your comment is ridiculous and serves only to cause havoc. My focus on YKZ and you should already tell you that you two are significantly higher on my mafialist than others.+ Show Spoiler [in short] +

Regardless, my comments on the others only solidify the fact that I DO want to focus much more on YKZ and you than everyone else because they have not presented significant enough reason for me to think that they are likely mafia (unlike YKZ and you).

On June 19 2014 15:09 Snickers wrote:
Yes only focus on two people when three could be mafia. Yes lets focus on people since that worked out so well for you day one.

Also that was very predictable your comment in spoilers. Also you are doing the same back and fourth we had day one.

On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.

Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.

My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.

It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.

Please comment on my thoughts

On June 16 2014 10:58 Snickers wrote:

Hello everyone. I am not sure how to quote someone so if the above quote was wrong please tell me how. (I checked preview and it looked right)
What does BH stand for?
For awhile i thought VT stood for vigilante not vanilla town. Also this kenpachi rule is useless.

On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:


See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.

I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally.

I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage.

Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole.

On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.

On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.

1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.

2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.

Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information.

3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"

4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.

5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.

On June 17 2014 00:13 Snickers wrote:


So i do not think you guys should pick a statement and bold it when right after that statement i said why it would be terrible to do that.

I was not asking for 27nb to die, I was saying it was strange for her to act super confident and not mention how she could prove him wrong less than 48 hours than now.

1.In my above post i showed where it was linked to her vote post. Also Her first post about VT was a question. The second one was not. It was then linked to the Vote Post.

2.and 3. Last time I am explaining this unless someone one new to the thread does not understand this.

"no one has any information except for the mafia,"

Since this is a semi open game the knowledge of a PR and a VT is different. Pr knows that his respective role exists.
Also we all have information through the posts.

4.So this actually makes sense why talking about blue would be bad day one. (Same logic applies for why we try to get scrum to speak on day one). But i do not think what i said was scummy. I think you said I was scummy then put a true statement after it to try and fool somebody.

5. I still do not understand this speculation idea.

I do not think you understand me and are twisting my words a lot to hurt me. You also seem to be twisting 27nb's words a lot to protect her. You seemed to have missed the part where she mentions VT without the question mark.

On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release

On June 17 2014 02:17 Snickers wrote:
Ok I'm on a mobile phone ATM and will not have a proper keyboard 9 hours from now.

First off. 27nb i will try to be more clear in nine hours with examples. My overall feelings on you is this. You were being super confident but did not use all the smack talk available to you. Again I will try to be more clear later.

Somebody wanted to know my thoughts on release.

For awhile I started to think that neither he , 27nb or ykz was scum. I think 27nb is most likely town now.

I think release is actually scum. He has aligned himself with bunnies and defended her but I think she was not in need of defense . I do not see a reason to defend someone not in trouble unless u know they are town. I think release saw a good time to cause confusion while also looking extremly town. It is good to align with a town as scum as a future defense, right?

Some people think I am siding with YKZ. I do not think it is smart to be siding with someone so early unless u know his or her role. I would argue I was going after 27 nab rather than defending YKZ. Also i said he seems knowledgable.
I think he def still is because of his knowledge on the lenpachi rule. You guys have been saying his use of it was wrong but not his definition of it. Also he is bh which u guys know him so he has played a lot. It seems weird for a player that has played a lot to slip so early. ( I know it sounds life I'm defending him now) I think he is knowledgable regardless of his role.

His posts do seem weird tho. He adds on little joking phrases to the end of some posts. Also why create a smurf then show ur actual self. I think he was reacting strongly to something.

On June 16 2014 13:49 Snickers wrote:
Good post release, I wanted to comment on some of your points.

1.I think it should be stated that 27nb mentioned VT in a post before her vote post.

2.Also this "limited information" we all have different levels of information. This is a semi open game so we know what roles are possible but not the quantity. I am assuming that we all could be goons and VT? but even if we were not, information is simply not on the level of scum or town. A PR has more information that a VT because he knows his respective role exists in the game. So i think generally information goes scum>PR>Vt.

Also this "limited information" does not seem like a slip. 27nb was just trying to get the game going and I think two of the people she mentioned did not post. Even now three people have not posted so I would say we all have limited information.

3.Your point on YKZ claiming he only slips as mafia while playing town. I think this is 10000x more worthy than the "limited information" post. Is YKZ's slip the "limited information" post? I still think this point is very important even though I do not think YKZ slipped with the kenpachi rule or the "limited information"

4. I do not think talk about blue would lead to mafia finding out the blue players. Although it seems bad to claim blue players day one right? If I was scum and said I was vigilante and there was actually someone vigilante, they would shoot me the first night. If I was VT and claimed vigilante, it would help lead scum to target a "less worthy player". But the risk seems to high for that tactic to be valuable. Also i used "less worthy player" because a smart VT would obviously be more worthy than an unintelligent vigilante that shot a PR.

5. Also that speculate post was really ambiguous and I think i may have caused that. I was not speculating that YKZ was a blue. I was trying to show a possibility that was being overlooked by a player. Then 27nb said "I wouldnt speculate" well is she telling me not to speculate or saying she would not personally speculate.

On June 17 2014 00:13 Snickers wrote:


So i do not think you guys should pick a statement and bold it when right after that statement i said why it would be terrible to do that.

I was not asking for 27nb to die, I was saying it was strange for her to act super confident and not mention how she could prove him wrong less than 48 hours than now.

1.In my above post i showed where it was linked to her vote post. Also Her first post about VT was a question. The second one was not. It was then linked to the Vote Post.

2.and 3. Last time I am explaining this unless someone one new to the thread does not understand this.

"no one has any information except for the mafia,"

Since this is a semi open game the knowledge of a PR and a VT is different. Pr knows that his respective role exists.
Also we all have information through the posts.

4.So this actually makes sense why talking about blue would be bad day one. (Same logic applies for why we try to get scrum to speak on day one). But i do not think what i said was scummy. I think you said I was scummy then put a true statement after it to try and fool somebody.

5. I still do not understand this speculation idea.

I do not think you understand me and are twisting my words a lot to hurt me. You also seem to be twisting 27nb's words a lot to protect her. You seemed to have missed the part where she mentions VT without the question mark.

On June 17 2014 11:50 Snickers wrote:


I have 100% corrected you and you did not respond to me at all. You had two main points in your first post. 1. Bunnies connection with YKZ's VT claim. 2. "limited information".

I questioned you about the VT claim and even after going back to check yourself you still reported false information. Then i said you were still wrong and you still have not responding. You are not even following your own guidelines to not look like scum.

Also this "limited information" this has a detail we all missed. I have never read anywhere in the rules where you have to read your role pm before starting play. Obviously u should (have to?) before day one ends. So we all had "equal info" unless we assume someone has read his role pm. It seems like a weird tactic but i still believe this "limited information" thing has very little value.

So one of the two things your first post was based on was just wrong and you still did not correct it. The other thing has very little value in my opinion.

I am leaning pretty hard to vote for you. Especially when two people have posted how your post had such a great timing.

Also i would really like to hear from oats and hear more for the world cup watcher.

Also Chezinu's encryption is a hassle.

On June 17 2014 12:23 Snickers wrote:


you never responded to this post.

Also you seem to not understand the fact that pr have more info than VT.

Also you keep highlighting the same thing i did but have you read what i wrote right after that.

On June 17 2014 12:54 Snickers wrote:


ok start quoting because i have no clue what "it" is.

It is a bad reason why? because we had such little information at the time. I was providing the most detail i could of why i thought 27nb was scum. It was a "long shot" but it still gave me another reason to.

I do not understand two thirds of your above post.

Why would I not say a bad reason. By bad reason i meant the game was probably going to end up with a lot better reasons for a scum. I am voting you know. I already showed multiple reasons why.

##Vote Release

And admit that you are wrong about information. PR has more information than VT. This is a semi open game. PR know if his role exists. VT does not know if any or what PR exists. PR does not know if even one VT exists?(Do not know if this is 100% right because i am new) VT knows at least one VT exists.

Both said VT and PR know there is three mafia.

Knowing there is a pr is more info than knowing there is a VT.

On June 17 2014 13:17 Snickers wrote:


limited does not equal less.

Also you do have a point with at the very start of the game PR and VT have the same chance of randomly guessing mafia.

But even on day one it could matter. If u were a cop and somebody claimed cop... for example.

On June 17 2014 11:50 Snickers wrote:


I have 100% corrected you and you did not respond to me at all. You had two main points in your first post. 1. Bunnies connection with YKZ's VT claim. 2. "limited information".

I questioned you about the VT claim and even after going back to check yourself you still reported false information. Then i said you were still wrong and you still have not responding. You are not even following your own guidelines to not look like scum.

Also this "limited information" this has a detail we all missed. I have never read anywhere in the rules where you have to read your role pm before starting play. Obviously u should (have to?) before day one ends. So we all had "equal info" unless we assume someone has read his role pm. It seems like a weird tactic but i still believe this "limited information" thing has very little value.

So one of the two things your first post was based on was just wrong and you still did not correct it. The other thing has very little value in my opinion.

I am leaning pretty hard to vote for you. Especially when two people have posted how your post had such a great timing.

Also i would really like to hear from oats and hear more for the world cup watcher.

Also Chezinu's encryption is a hassle.

On June 17 2014 16:07 Snickers wrote:


gk what is your read on mderg?

I think its weird how he has only posted one thing. He sorta offers an excuse for that. The thing i find most weird is "I'll hopefully post more tomorrow". ..... I do not think somebody that is town would say hopefully i will post more after posting one post.

On June 18 2014 02:07 Snickers wrote:


Hey mderg can you explain the reasoning of the bold text.

I think you made a terrible excuse for not posting more on day one. You are back and forth on release. Also you say you hopefully will post more tomorrow. You also throw in a vote first post. Also I am pretty sure you were hoping no one would comment and you could just lurk until the lynch. Your vote would of been your saving grace for not having to speak today.

On June 18 2014 02:29 Snickers wrote:


Yea it seems really strange that you are only leaning towards somebody and you vote for them. Saying that you are not 100% sure you will return to the game to reevaluate the situation. It would be terrible for a town to vote for someone with only about half the information we have. Then say he may not change it until the lynch. So you were leaning towards bunnies but felt she was scum enough that if you did not make it to a computer she could be lynched because of this vote.

##Unvote

##Vote mderg

I still think Release is scum but I am more confident that mderg is at this time. Also we have to consolidate our posts and i think it would be easier for people to see this slip. Also more people on mderg atm than release.

On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:
You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically. You have these rules that you hold so highly. Even if these rules were true you guys cannot even use them right. So assuming they are true they still are no use. And somebody mentioned something about release. If you can't see the scum in his post there is a problem or you are scum.

I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).

Also koshi seems to be obsessed with me. I am thinking him as third mafia.

On June 19 2014 13:16 Snickers wrote:
And above this post is release's beautiful post where he now goes from continuing ykz and 27nb's argument which led to people making so much scum out of nothing to this one to now bringing ykz lynch about. Now this whole day cycle we are going to be led into talking about ykz the whole time when we should not just focus on one person.

Also he defends mderg with this post and also talks about me being scum. How predictable.

I should have called this like i called what happened to 27nb. What happened to 27nb was a long process tho this was an instant. Also me posting a prediction of this would have altered this outcome.

And not release continuing his cycle of posts. One very serious one talking about scum then all of his shorts ones to me. Now back to these serious ones. With a vote attached as his first day post.

Release says to look through YKZ's filter. How about you write a case with the new information we have release. The only reason why release is saying vote ykz instead of me is because it will be a lot more easier to sway all of you into voting ykz. Also it will be easier to drag on the ykz stuff that costed us day one. I do not see how a town release would not be voting me.

And how the hell did no one even vote for me a single time the first day. It is because scum all agreed to not vote me or make a case for me. I do not think there even is one since no one has made one. There was no reason to throw me in day one since they had it won with just this ykz and 27nb rigmarole.

We should really improve are chances of winning by not focusing on one or two people and start looking at many.

On June 19 2014 15:09 Snickers wrote:
Yes only focus on two people when three could be mafia. Yes lets focus on people since that worked out so well for you day one.

Also that was very predictable your comment in spoilers. Also you are doing the same back and fourth we had day one.

On June 19 2014 15:18 Snickers wrote:


And here is where Release's mistake is so obvious. He did not even know that 27nb posted twice about vt before voting. But he made a huge case on YKZ. and defended 27nb. How would a town not know such an important fact when you can go back and reread. Also when we were only a few posts into the game.

And then everything lines up perfectly with him being scum. I also find it odd that he did not consolidate his Vote. Everyone else did.

On June 21 2014 11:47 Snickers wrote:--snip--

Numbers = his bold statement (ie. 1 2 3 4)

1. Yes i was leaning 27nb but that was before a lot of posted and the people that did posted did not post much. So it was the very start of the game. I think I did not even vote for her. The person i voted for flipped scum today. Also i was saying how terrible it was to vote27nb after i had information from all players.

I support the kenpachi rule. It has merit(it has some value) I do not see where release thinks i support further discussion of it. He did not post the post but someone said they were sick of it but i said i still think it should be discussed but i understand how it could be repetitive. I think that release thinks i encouraged further discussion of it by saying how 27nb dismissed it(which she did, koshi is saying this is true but release is denying it i guess make your own decision) And i did say that only two people said what the kenpachi rule was. YKZ explained it in a lot of detail while 27nb did not have a good explanation of it. I wanted someone else to say what it was or if YKZ was talking nonsense. Nobody did so I am still assuming that is was the kenpachi rule is. Second time I am saying this but no one was saying the kenpachi rule was defined wrong they were saying it was being used wrong.

Release also posted to where i said the kenpachi rule was useless. That was my first post to a mafia game ever. I had very little knowledge of the game.(For example i knew the term lylo existed and it was a phase as the end of the game but I did not know it meant lynch or lose.) Then i gathered new info that no was refuting so i did see the merit in it. Notice how i comment on YKZ saying the kenpachi rule also works then said it almost always works. His knowledge of it did not change but he said different things. I said different things but my knowledge of it did change.

I do not understand where I represented information wrong. Also 27nb could say if YKZ was lynched it would be proven by the end of the day. Also release wants to throw in the scientific method bs. It is simply stated as the kenpachi rule has merit but is not 100% correct.

2. I still stand that i did not make an association with YKZ because of the information I posted after that. I guess you all can decide. I was saying another reason i would want to vote 27nb. That would of been a longshot.

3. I thought was release was scum and I made my own case on his. I did not follow Art's case on him. I thought release did have a good point until he did not even know that 27nb said vt twice before he vote post. I think sloosh but somebody said something like good job now somebody is actually reading the thread. I still believe releases whole post was just the same information we have and then a misleading or terrible new point in his case about vt. So either scum or terrible town. I also do not see how I flip flopped (Does this mean I went from one player to another?) I was slightly leaning 27nb, i never even voted for her. I was full blown for you day one. More than mderg. But i played like a team player and consolidated my post like somebody said that was normal so scum votes could not factor that much.

Now these numbers are going to be related to the third bold comments, second spoiler.

I never asked 27nb to die. I was saying how she could of said if she died she would show town and the kenpachi rule would be disproved or if YKZ was lynched and shown scum first day. Things like this is where i think release is either a terrible town or scum. He misreads the simplest of things.

1. Where i was proving to release that he missed that 27nb mentions vt twice before vote post.

2. and 3. Me and Release had a different definition so i think we were both right about that.

4. I agree that talking about blue roles is bad.(My information on the subject changed) I realized that it
is the same thing we do to find scum. I still never talked about who had which blue role. I was
talking about talking about blue roles. I still think this does not have a primary nature to help scum.
I guess you could say it could lead someone else to mention a role with a person.

5. This does not matter much now. Still confused about this.
So i thought release had a very good post because of his thread changing point of the vt thing but then I realize that and i still think that it was wrong because 27nb. says also or another when referring to vt claim. It looks even worst when release did not know a simple fact about how many times 27nb mentioned vt when the thread was small and it was his first post and he could reread. For some reason release thinks i was following art's case but i was not. I think maybe his case triggered my case. Also the two people that mentioned the timing. One of them was me.

4.Already mentioned blue talk. So far my "harping" w/e the hell that means. It sounds so negative. My "harping" or focusing on slight details was my main read on mderg the scum.(letters correspond with only some of the major harps that helped the game)

A. Mderg's comment about hopefully helping tomorrow. I think i was the first person to catch this.

B. Mderg's comment on how he said something that he did not actually say.

Both of these "harps" were accurately reading scum but release defended Mderg both time. I do not know this was because release thought i was misleading, like a scum should or If he wanted to defend Mderg for w/e reason (scum team or did not think he was scum)

I will Harp till the day I die. Cause so far it has led to my 100% lynch record. (no I did not vote for mderg the day he got lynched but I did the first day and I would have continued the second day If I knew(or saw) that people decided to vote him.

On June 21 2014 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. I think your lynch targets are bad though. Also, the town reasoning should be obvious; he thought YKZ was more scummy than mderg, so he tried to get YKZ lynched.

On June 21 2014 21:53 Snickers wrote:


I did not call him out first (two people did before me) but I think I was the first person to do a passable analysis on him rather than just say "the above post if filled with scum. therefore my vote is ......"

Replying to release here. Yea i still do not have a definition of ban wagon. I think one of the criteria is to not show new scummy points in a player and just vote for them with the ones already out. Never voted for 27nb and voted for mderg after giving new information. Also I was the first person to vote mderg and stay with it all day one. I was in class but i had a 15 minute break to at least read a few posts and change my vote. Yesterday i had work. I was still wanting to vote mderg but i saw no support after day one lynch. So i consolidated my post just like day one. I think maybe you think i am ban wagoning because i consolidate early, but I have been busy around vote times. Guess what, Sunday i have work so it will be like yesterday. Wednesday I have class if this game is still going by then.

Also this needs to be said. VE was not telling me not to vote mderg because of how many mislynches he did from "bad town play". That was LazerMonkey. I saw people were thinking he may be scummy and he also understand this.