Detention Mafia

On May 27 2014 10:47 slOosh wrote:
Ooh here's something.

What's your guys take on Alakaslam's style of posting?

On May 27 2014 10:56 27ninjabunnies wrote:
As entertaining as your two conversation is, can we scum hunt please?

Thanks...

it seems like everyone is in the dumps right now.

So lets make things interesting.

Come up with something that i have to incorporate into my reads/ a post/ or something, otherwise ill get lynched.

Cause why not.

On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town.

On May 27 2014 11:24 jabberwockzerg wrote:

Didn't realize that was public information
My bad

On May 27 2014 11:28 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

It iz not public information, I just read you guys as mafia.

On May 27 2014 11:28 HaruRH wrote:



I realised I can't rap, so here I go:

I only lurk
And only look
In tl where I lurk and murk
I play mafia
In warcraft 3
Where I wait for 2 hours for 1 game
Yo yo yo

On May 27 2014 11:34 HaruRH wrote:


3/13 chance gamble anyone? ## Vote: jabberwockzerg

On May 27 2014 11:38 jabberwockzerg wrote:
I don't quite follow your logic. You put me on mafia last game, and I screwed up about if that was posted or not, but that makes me mafia this game? No comprende

On May 27 2014 11:58 27ninjabunnies wrote:


I don't know about that. Once the game gets started, watch how difficult it will be for me to start calling people killing off the birds.

On May 28 2014 04:34 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So gobble is the only one who hasnt talked yet...

In a minute, im going to do a player analysis on each player... But Ive got to go do something real quick

On May 27 2014 18:34 Palmar wrote:
Ninjabunnies is mafia, I'm going to vote him. Then I'm going to read another page of the game.

##Vote Ninjabunnies

it's because he wrote "XD"

On May 27 2014 18:43 Palmar wrote:


I'm not, why do you think I'm trolling.

Granted, I'm only about 2 pages or so into the game as we speak, + skimming Ninja's filter. But I feel pretty good about this. Could you elaborate on why you think I'm trolling? Or at least if there is something you don't understand in my case, ask for an explanation?

On May 27 2014 21:37 fuba wrote:

I don't really see scum as more likely to post something like that so carelessly, particularly because I can see no reason to do so. It seems like too much oversight with no payoff.

On May 28 2014 05:23 Chromatically wrote:

My point was that sqrt previously did not have a scumread from that post, and now he wants to lynch jabber for that post with no additional justification, meaning that he's fabricating his read (I guess this is option 2). But, it is possible that he just reread it and changed his mind, as he says.

This was just one sqrt post I had a problem with, still want to lynch jabber by a long shot.


sqrt, is that jabber post the main reason why you are voting him? Like that's the best piece of evidence in your opinion?

On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town.

On May 28 2014 05:41 Chromatically wrote:

Do you disagree with my recent post about his explanations?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=14#271

On May 28 2014 06:33 mderg wrote:
Overall it´s just strange how almost everyone jumps on the wagon. IMO most lynches like this end up being wrong.

On May 28 2014 09:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

If you are suspicious of someone, push them. If you don't feel you have enough evidence yet then sit back and wait until you have enough evidence or you decide your suspicion was wrong. Don't post vague accusations.

On May 28 2014 09:33 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Sure.

So mderg comes into the thread not liking the lynch on jabber, he believe jabber's slip isnt a slip at all. Just bad play.

O find it a bit weird he wants to lynch fuba over jabber, and i didnt really see a reason as to why in his filter, only that fuba was against the lynch of jabber, and now he is not.

Also i agree with him that everyone jumping on the wagon is a bit here.

If jabber is mafia, mderg could be as well for this hard defense of him.

If jabber is town, mderg could be a hipster mafia trying to gain town credibility.

Both scenerios points to him as mafia. I just dont see him as town, except that he is pretty sure jabber is a mislynch here,

On May 28 2014 09:40 jabberwockzerg wrote:

Certainly
Basically, I thought concealing information about myself would help me out in the long run. This belief, and the later admission of it, came from a fundamental misunderstanding of how this game is really played. This is what caused my initial post, and my explanations. Now, I'm learning more about what goes down and that as town, especially as town, the most important thing is to just be clear and honest and try to find the real scum.
This game is a lot more fun and layered than I first thought, and I can't wait to sink my teeth in.
It's really looking like a lynch at this point, so I'm grateful this shitstorm happened because I learned so much from it.

On May 28 2014 09:55 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Did you read the mafia qt?

He basically was like, "should i play the noob card?"

I think him being new is not indicative of him being town.

On May 28 2014 09:56 Chromatically wrote:
Why is palmar scum please

On May 28 2014 05:20 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Hi amiko!
Palmar makes this post here, claiming that bunnies was mafia.

When gobble asked him if it was a troll he said this:

He denies that this is a joke.

And he hasn't done anything to promote his case against bunnies. No questions, no nothing. Only voting jwz.

Until I say that I don't like palmar.
And then, soon after, he says that he likes bunnies now.
Seems like he's avoiding my suspicion.


also, my last post didn't have a z in it.....
I think I might desert this rule thingy.

On May 28 2014 09:58 Chromatically wrote:
I'm trying to read through jabber's posts and see if this explanation is possible from a town perspective. The problem I'm reaching is that it would have to be really really bad town play, like completely bullshitting and making stuff up for no reason.

On May 28 2014 10:00 Chromatically wrote:

I'm not saying he's town. Why do you think it's more likely that he's been town doing absolutely everything wrong as opposed to just being scum?

On May 28 2014 10:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:

that is spot on

On May 28 2014 10:22 jabberwockzerg wrote:

just like, who I think is most likely each?

On May 28 2014 10:32 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Jabber is not scum, but there is a chance he is scum...

Hey do i want to vote you so badly right now?

On May 28 2014 10:34 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Top Scum: Palamar
Just started out weird with the whole ninjabunnies vote and never really did anything
top town: any one of the people initially defending me, as most Mafia would want to turn the town against me ASAP

On May 28 2014 10:44 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Idk what that means

On May 28 2014 11:10 Chromatically wrote:
man I am so good

On May 28 2014 05:20 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Hi amiko!
Palmar makes this post here, claiming that bunnies was mafia.

When gobble asked him if it was a troll he said this:

He denies that this is a joke.

And he hasn't done anything to promote his case against bunnies. No questions, no nothing. Only voting jwz.

Until I say that I don't like palmar.
And then, soon after, he says that he likes bunnies now.
Seems like he's avoiding my suspicion.


also, my last post didn't have a z in it.....
I think I might desert this rule thingy.

On May 29 2014 04:11 Chromatically wrote:

Can you explain your read on jabber and also your top scumreads?

On May 29 2014 04:35 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Why?

On May 29 2014 04:34 Amiko wrote:
@sqrt:
Can you read through my comments on Palmar and let me know what you think?
I feel your suspicion of him based on his vote for bunnies is super weak...

On May 29 2014 04:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

More importantly, why even reveal you think that if you're town -_-

On May 29 2014 04:38 Amiko wrote:


I posted on him just a bit ago and I think you read it...?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=25#499

I think HaruRH is scummy. I am not sure re: jabberwockzerg vs HaruRH... I didn't realize deadline was when it was, so I feel like there may not be time for Haru to respond to my points, whereas jabberwock has had time to respond and responded poorly. That's one reason I want to see more talk on Haru.

On May 27 2014 15:31 fuba wrote:
But the last game was Classroom, the game that got remade. And since jabber was scum in that game, he knew that Chrom wasn't. Which means that he knew chrom wasn't scum, but suggested that possibility anyway. While I can't give an exact reason for scum|jabber to lie, I don't see any reason for town|jabber to.

...Though now that I think of it, unless the scumteam is the exact three people it was last time, then jabber would be incredibly unlikely to intentionally lie about who was on it, since at least one scum from last game would be town this game and would point out that he's lying. So either this was just a mistake on his part or I'm misunderstanding some part of the interaction. Either way, I'm pretty sure I've talked myself out of this...

##Unvote

On May 29 2014 06:35 fuba wrote:
Every vote wasn't on jabber. It's taken the majority of two days to get the vote to reach this point. There's been significant discussion about it, and there are legitimate reasons to consider him scum.

I'd also like to point out that jabber hasn't been defending himself or offering an alternative wagon for the last 20 hours or so. This tends to be a scum reaction to a large wagon building against them, rather than a town reaction.

If anyone has a specific person they'd like me to comment on, I might have time to squeeze in a filter dive before the deadline. My quick read through the thread didn't leave a whole lot of time for contemplation. I can say that no one struck me as more likely to be scum than jabber. I know a few people asked me specific questions, so I'll try to answer those in the meantime. Just gotta find 'em.

On May 29 2014 07:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Sqrt you change your mind sooo much

On May 30 2014 02:36 Amiko wrote:
I guess it does evidence that he didn't read the OP, but I have seen town and scum both do that (for example, one or two newbie games back a few players thought they had a cop when they had a parity cop).

On May 30 2014 03:17 slOosh wrote:

What has sqrt done that you would consider him town?

On May 30 2014 08:17 Palmar wrote:
If I was mafia and wanted credit for not lynching him I wouldn't have been whipping people to stay with the lynch buddy. I have no idea where you're going with this.

On May 30 2014 08:19 Palmar wrote:

No.

On May 30 2014 08:21 Palmar wrote:

Do I have to?

On May 31 2014 03:52 Alakaslam wrote:

lol

On June 01 2014 08:54 Palmar wrote:


I think fuba is town, I don't care if his play is weird.

This sloosh lynch is going too easily. We should do MZ.

On June 01 2014 09:01 Amiko wrote:
@sqrt:
(1) Do you think it's possible that you are getting played because of your reactions d1? I mean I was just writing that may be happening, since to me you seem like the prime person who might switch based on this "too easy" argument.

(2) Can you at least agree that fuba's play is weird today? He joined the thread making a case on you as if he was just stopping by and had been active in the thread



but yet he doesn't discuss the active topics (Meepak & slOosh)

On June 01 2014 09:10 Amiko wrote:
I'm the most towny based on d2 and it's by a huge margin

On June 01 2014 09:12 Amiko wrote:
Also
@sqrt since I feel like I might actually convince you, do you really think it is likely that you complete today townreading slOosh?

Like, maybe it's possible you are unsure between M_Z and slOosh. But how do you townread slOosh?

On June 01 2014 09:40 Amiko wrote:
Okay, so do you think these points are wrong?
What is wrong?

also @Palmar and @fuba you should be answering this too

On June 01 2014 09:42 Amiko wrote:
Anyone can be 'lazy town' for not commenting on some points.
I don't think it can be lazy town when you don't discuss any of the wagons at all, especially after you tell someone to bring any they have up

On June 01 2014 09:57 HaruRH wrote:
Pretty sure sloosh is still dead unless someone changes fast.
In fact, this day gave us tons of information. Somebody have just exceeded 50% scum level..

On June 01 2014 11:30 HaruRH wrote:
Hahaha you placed amiko as higher town than you.

On June 02 2014 02:41 Amiko wrote:
I'd like comments on the following so I can try to read you guys a little better.

@sqrt, @Alakaslam:
Look at slOosh's death post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=38#747)
Then, could tell me what you think of this post:

On June 02 2014 07:26 Alakaslam wrote:

If you think it is weird sloosh mentioned his teammate why do you not think it is weird that he mentions M-Z?!?!

On June 03 2014 05:35 Amiko wrote:
Sqrt I'm not really sure if you are responding to the first part or the second there...

We know slOosh is goon. If M_Z is scum, he is roleblocker.
I think it was became clear that one of those two players was going to get lynched d2.
If you were scum in that situation, if all other things were equal, you would probably want the roleblocker (M_Z in that case) to survive.

However, slOosh fights to survive the lynch, M_Z does not.
This suggests that maybe if they were both scum, slOosh would have preferred M_Z die instead of himself.

I just want to know if you think that argument makes sense, and if you disagree, what part you disagree with.

For me, I don't find it sufficient (though I guess I didn't go through the reasons) but I thought it was worth talking about, especially since it feels like people aren't really playing anymore.

On June 03 2014 05:37 Amiko wrote:
@sqrt-
I remember you were scumreading Palmar somewhat when he voted on bunnies early and questioned his reasons.

Why did you react differently when bunnies voted you early (you didn't ask if bunnies was serious, etc.)?

On June 03 2014 05:46 Amiko wrote:
I mean it's possible but I don't see why it's compelling either way.
- Maybe he's attacking the people because he wants them to appear towny.
- Maybe he's attacking the people because he thinks it will make him seem more towny.
- Maybe he put one mafia in his list, maybe two.
There's no reliable way to figure out his intentions, so I don't really feel that it's useful to pry that deeply into them.

If you really want to focus on players' last words, why aren't you looking at town players instead?
> What do you think of Chrom's pre-death reads?
> What about bunnies' pre-death reads?
Compared to slOosh, at least you know these players were probably giving their honest reads.

On June 03 2014 06:58 mderg wrote:

You can definitely take something from the reads scum give but this is about the last reads. A townie will give honest reads but a scum that´s almost dead might do everything.

On June 03 2014 07:05 mderg wrote:

I disagree with you then.

On June 03 2014 11:15 Alakaslam wrote:

Do
I have
To
To care
Oh man oh man oh man

On June 03 2014 11:44 Amiko wrote:
Two people that (imo) aren't likely night kills (sqrt and haru) both have Palmar as the second highest scumread after M_Z.
If we hit wrong on M_Z, then Palmar is someone who should get attention, and given that he is barely playing it seems to me that it'd be better to try to get him to play now instead of later.

I don't really see why we need to wait for tomorrow to ask questions.
I recognize if Palmar/Alakaslam don't really want to play mafia, I can't make them play the game.
If M_Z flips scum, fine. If not, I'll certainly have this interaction to consider too.

On June 03 2014 08:58 Amiko wrote:
@sqrt:
I mostly disagree with you. I mean, there's no certainty that scum will kill someone because they are right.
(Though, I do think that tends to be the case on day 1, at least)
But even if you don't know if the town is right, you can still look at their filters and see if they made points that might have made the mafia decide to kill them.

Ex: consider Chromatically's last couple of posts.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?user=Chromatically&page=3
His top three scum were:
(1) slOosh
(2) M_Z
(3) gobble
If you were scum and saw that, don't you think he might make for a tempting n1 kill?

On June 03 2014 08:58 Amiko wrote:
I don't find reviewing bunnies' filter to be useful, though. Since she didn't read d2, and her last post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=44#867) is pretty inconclusive imo.
About all I can say is that she didn't think fuba was scum. But I don't even know if this is helpful; my suspicion of fuba is mostly from d2 (which I guess she didn't read) so I feel like her post doesn't give us as much to work with.

Scum filters can help too, you are right.
But, I feel like the most useful stuff is things you recognize as slips in retrospect...
I think a post from scum when that player is gaining votes and is a likely lynch is just too wifomy.

On June 04 2014 04:14 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm sick. Co-host in charge now

On June 04 2014 08:13 fuba wrote:
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh

Bleh, I had this whole thing written up but I refreshed the page and it got erased. Was basically just apologizing for being MIA and saying that MZ seemed like a pretty set lynch, so time felt better spent on projects (and reading the new Dresden Files book, and trying out Heroes of the Storm, but mostly the final projects).

On June 04 2014 16:20 HaruRH wrote:
Sqrt:

What is your rationale for moving off fuba after d1?
Any strong reasons why?
Who are your top 2 scum reads now?

On May 31 2014 15:45 fuba wrote:
I'm glad you mentioned sqrt, because he's someone who's stuck out to me.

His reason for unvoting jabber and voting palmar was that lynches like that end up being wrong. It turns out that he was right, but isn't that a really, really strange reason to unvote someone when you have legitimate reasons to believe he's scum in front of you? Then he swaps back to jabber in order to get more information, even though he thinks palmar is scummier. He then unvotes jabber because of his defense. Not the content of his defense, because that was scummy. He basically unvoted because jabber gave A reason. It wasn't a "too scummy to be scum" argument, it was just - he gave a reason, I think he's town. Then while interacting with Chrom, he says that he doesn't think jabber is town (except he actually did explicitly say "I think he's town now."), but he thinks there's a possibility that jabber is town. This is a really strange thing to say as town because unless someone is somehow modconfirmed scum, there is always the possibility that they're town. That's a given, it's understood by everyone. But he reiterates the fact that he thinks jabber is scummy, but might be town, but might also be scum, about 3-4 times.

There's also the fact that he says he wants to lynch jabber for the information earlier on in the day, and later says that he gained no information from the lynch. Clearly his reason for voting jabber at that time was bs, because if you've noticed something that will give you information based on jabber's flip, that thing doesn't just disappear.

Then there's his read of me. He suggests me as a possible scum wagon rivaling that of jabber. Seems to indicate that he's really sure of it. But when jabber flips town, which I would have expected to increase his scumread on me, he doesn't mention me at all. Nothing whatsoever until:


This isn't something you say about your strong scumread.

However:


I'm back on his town list. On the same level as mderg and amiko, who I feel is almost positively town. I went from one of his top scumreads to one of his towniest reads, after the jabber lynch revealed that whatever small contributions I had were in favor of what turned out to be a mislynch. And even if I'm reading too much into me being on this list with amiko, he still considers me town. I don't see why this would be his reaction to the D1 lynch.

But the next day:


Suddenly I'm back on the scumlist. These are the only mentions of me after his case. This is more than just changing his mind, this is two unexplained and absolute reversals of his read - after an event that should have straight-up solidified his scumread of me if it was legitimate.

And finally there's the little things, like the fact that he started the game talking about himself being mafia, and that he seemed concerned about having said "I've rolled mafia twice" instead of "I've never rolled mafia except twice", when it would have been clear what he meant without the correction. And pointing out someone who might be blue even though there's no reason for town to do so.

I'm actually getting too tired to keep my eyes open at this point, so I'll leave it at this for now. I'll take a closer look at slOosh and MZ tomorrow, and see if I think either one is scummier than sqrt. I've read the cases, but haven't filtered them too well. In case it wasn't clear in my last post, I'm really unsure about gobble at this point. He did ignore my questions, he does feel like he's not reading everything I'm writing, and it feels like he's simply refusing to believe I could possibly be town. Could be stubborn, could be scum. I don't know anymore, and it seems like it's kinda off the table for the moment. Even if he is scum, there's two others out there so I'm looking for them for now.

##Vote: sqrtofneg1

On June 05 2014 02:04 HaruRH wrote:
I doubt we have a medic (or we have one which fails every night). Cop seems improbable since a red would have been found out by now, given that everyone wanted to lynch sloosh/gobble/MZ.

On June 05 2014 02:20 fuba wrote:

We have to have two of cop/medic/watcher. I'm leaning towards there not being a cop, but I wouldn't rule it out just yet. And if there's a medic/watcher or both, I'd bet they're keeping an eye on Amiko, which is why scum keep getting kills off. I'm not suggesting they stop (medic/watcher), just explaining what I'm seeing.

About to read through your thoughts again, will be back with thoughts of my own ^^

On June 05 2014 02:33 fuba wrote:

Did BH clarify that somewhere? I don't see it in the OP.

On June 05 2014 02:57 fuba wrote:
I just checked out the votes from the SlOosh lynch again, and I feel like there's a really strong chance that all scum were on the MZ wagon D2, or the last one could have switched over and gotten a mislynch. Amiko was right in that since I was wrong, I was giving scum the chance to switch over to MZ easily. The fact that they didn't makes me feel that one of Palmar/sqrt/Haru is scum. I've already explained why I don't think sqrt and Haru are scum, so that leaves me with Palmar for tomorrow's lynch.

On June 05 2014 05:54 Amiko wrote:
(I became a firebat :3)

On June 05 2014 10:08 Amiko wrote:
(But it's goofy that you didn't realize you can save the same person more than once, lol)

On June 05 2014 10:13 fuba wrote:
##Vote: Palmar

I can agree with the first half of the lynch list XD

On June 05 2014 10:20 Amiko wrote:
@Fuba and @Palmar, your should take a serious look at mderg and see if there's any case to be made.

I felt the only suspicious thing he did was that he agrees with me a lot. But, his play is pretty good overall - I think he's a fairly reliable town pick, and it's tough for me to believe that scum would not use their roleblock on n2 knowing there is a cop in the game.

Maaaan, I am disappointed there's no watcher, though. I really thought there was. x.x

On June 05 2014 10:21 Amiko wrote:
I was roleblocked so it isn't relevant. I don't mind revealing it, though, but I want Palmar and mderg to come to thread and confirm they are not claiming a blue role before I do so.

On June 05 2014 10:24 Amiko wrote:
I do think saving Haru n2 is crazy though :p

I felt sure scum would kill someone who voted for slOosh, and since I had been raising points on Haru I figured he would be a good target to mislynch (so wouldn't be killed)

Maaaaan I died N2 things would be crazy :s

On June 05 2014 10:25 Amiko wrote:
EBWOP: If I died

Anyway sqrt, you and I should take a look at mderg too, I think we're in pretty good shape though.
(Haru you too)

On June 01 2014 10:07 Blazinghand wrote:


Meapak_Ziphh (5) - HaruRH, Palmar, mderg, SlOosh, fuba, sqrtofneg1, HaruRH
slOosh(5) - Amiko, Alakaslam, HaruRH, sqrtofneg1, mderg, 27ninjabunnies, Meapak_Ziphh
Sqrtofneg1(0) - fuba

Not voting (1) : - gobbledydook


Currently slOosh is set to be lynched!

Day ends in

On June 06 2014 01:38 Amiko wrote:
Let's be honest, it's possible but it's too remote. Even if mderg had been on the M_Z wagon I think Fuba and Palmar would arguably make better lynches.

On June 06 2014 02:00 Palmar wrote:

I'm not convinced it's fuba.

So if you guys could all be dears and start trying to figure out. Just pretend for the next 24 hours that I'm confirmed town, and go scumhunt the other two. Use reasons and stuff.

Then you can come back to me and lynch me. But it's hard to scumhunt when people are constantly pushing me as mafia for awful reasons.

On June 06 2014 02:03 Palmar wrote:

So you're lynching me out of fear?

On June 06 2014 02:29 Palmar wrote:

Well I'm not exactly sure what'll help me.

I'm doing my best but you've got your head so firmly up your ass nothing I say is getting through.