Detention Mafia - Page 73

On June 08 2014 14:00 HaruRH wrote:
Either me or sqrt needs to hold the absolute lynch now, it mustn't fall onto mderg or fuba. I have my suspicions of mderg now that I thought of it hard.

Mderg's n2 self roleblock made sense as mafia

On d2, both the goons died. There was a need for scum to present himself as the towniest person ever, and one way around it was to claim rb. As such, he can guarantee that amiko will never check him since he is a 'confirmed townie' now.

Valid points raised on why mderg could be scum

These points were surpressed by the fact that mderg is town because he was roleblocked. For example, the MZ sheeping. Also, by acknowledging that amiko was the main wagon starter, mderg could easily agree with everything that amiko says. This helps in letting mderg sheep his way through this game - until this critical junction.

On June 08 2014 17:22 mderg wrote:

What exactly do you mean with MZ sheeping? I made my case on him at thee end of day 1 and he did almost nothing to defend himself. I wouldn´t call that sheeping.

On June 08 2014 10:04 fuba wrote:
His responses to me feel so damn transparently scum, it's infuriating. Look at his last responses to me. He says that the motivation for actions is irrelevant, it's only actions that count (I paraphrased, so he can't come back and say I'm "misquoting" him like his scumbuddy did. He ignores the motivation by ignoring my entire post in order to focus attention on the action, while I ask him to explain what my MOTIVATION was. He can't provide any motivation. It's impossible for him.). THAT IS 100% SCUM MINDSET. The entire point of a bus is to make it look like you're town through your actions, and hope people don't see the motivation behind it. I have absolutely no idea how you can believe that it makes sense for me as scum to try to switch the lynch in the last few hours when there's no reasonable motivation for it, and yet there's a treasure trove of motivation for mderg to do exactly what he did as scum.

On June 08 2014 17:31 HaruRH wrote:


You mean that 2 paragraph worth of stating why MZ is scum, which does not apply after d1? That doesn't count, I already explained.

Give me some time to get on my pc, it is horrible to attempt to format anything on phone.

On June 08 2014 11:59 fuba wrote:
Rofl

Actually, killing Amiko is the worst thing I could have done if I was scum. He's the only one who would have a conversation, however misguided.

On June 08 2014 17:35 mderg wrote:

You´re so heavily twisting my words, it shouldn´t be possible. I said the OUTCOME of the actions is irrelevant, if there´s scum motivation behind the actions. Like where the hell did I say that the motivation behind your actions don´t matter. Just find any quote.

Regardless of the outcome your action and motivation were still the same and you weren´t instantly scumread for it. Because who would make a ballsy play like that as scum? It just seems so risky as scum that it can actually be kinda safe to do.

And the scum motivation behind your actions should be clear. Saving a scum helps even if he´s likely to be lynched the next day.If your plan worked, you´d have been at 3 scum against 6 town meaning you´d need 2 mislynches to win the game.

Also I don´t know about gobble, maybe he even posted in the scum qt that day and just forgot to vote or something.

On June 08 2014 23:49 fuba wrote:

Answered this before you even asked it: "(I paraphrased, so he can't come back and say I'm "misquoting" him like his scumbuddy did. He ignores the motivation by ignoring my entire post in order to focus attention on the action, while I ask him to explain what my MOTIVATION was. He can't provide any motivation. It's impossible for him.)"


The likelihood of the desired outcome is taken into consideration when deciding whether to do something or not. If I was scum, I had little reason to believe I could actually switch the lynch, and no reason to do it even if I did. Both MZ and SlOosh were going to be lynched, since everyone found them both scummy regardless of the others' alignment. Sloosh was going to die no matter what. The net result after days 2 and 3 was going to be one dead sloosh and one dead MZ. Why would I put my neck out, and drag gobble into a last-minute vote that would make him pretty certainly the day 4 lynch, when I could just bus sloosh and gain towncred? There is no net gain for scum|fuba pushing the MZ mislynch. The net benefits of scum|mderg bussing sloosh are shown in the progression of the game up to this point.


False. It doesn't help if it forces your entire team to out themselves as scum in order to pull off the mislynch, and if sloosh is going to be lynched anyway (as he most certainly was). Scum play to win the game, not just to save one of their allies. It's the reason that bussing exists. Your play makes sense as scum that knew sloosh was going to be dead by the end of D3, mine does not.

Absolutely possible, but regardless of that fact it wouldn't make sense to pile both me and gobble onto MZ because then the entire scumteam has gone balls to the wall to delay a lynch by a single day. Even if gobble was there, which I have assumed he wasn't or he wouldn't have been modkilled for not voting, it wouldn't make sense for the scumteam to go to that extent to merely postpone a lynch. What does make sense is trying to gain as much from the inevitable loss of a teammate as possible, which is what you did.

On June 09 2014 01:37 fuba wrote:
Got to the computer lab, and apparently the building is closed until noon. Thanks for the warning, building -_-

I've come to the realization that there are some points that I brought up yesterday that no longer actually matter in my case against mderg. Gonna clarify what no longer matters, and summarize my case.

What no longer matters

- It doesn't matter whether or not scum felt they could divert the sloosh lynch on D2. That is irrelevant, because sloosh was absolutely going to be lynched on D3, then. We lynched sloosh's counterwagon the day after sloosh flipped scum, so why would MZ flipping town cause anyone's suspicions of sloosh to lessen? The answer is that they wouldn't. Therefore, sloosh was going to die, and scum would have tried to benefit from it the best they could.

- The roleblock doesn't matter. If anything, it indicates that mderg is more likely scum because he's claiming to be a VT who's been roleblocked, but he wasn't killed over alakaslam who shared that same status but was participating far less. And his reaction is further evidence against him, because there's no way anyone in the game thought that mderg was going to be medic'd over Amiko. This is a secondary point, however, so even if you disagree with me it doesn't detract from my main point.


Summary of my main point
Yesterday, Amiko and I got caught up discussing whether or not scum thought they could have diverted the lynch, but we weren't thinking about it correctly. The ultimate fact is that diverting the lynch would have been pointless even if it were possible. This is something that scum would have realized and acted on. They knew that MZ and sloosh were going to be lynched in some order on D2 and D3, so they took the opportunity to bus Sloosh on D2 because it is what would most benefit the scum team.

I, on the other hand, tried to switch the lynch to MZ. I've made it really clear why that is pointless as scum. Sloosh was going to be lynched on D3 even if I "succeeded", and even the way it played out in the thread would have required gobble swooping in at the last minute to secure the mislynch, which would have pretty much pinned him as the second scum even if he wasn't modkilled.

Scum control their roleblocks, scum control their death posts. What we know scum lost control of was the sloosh lynch, because sloosh was scum and he was lynched. This is a pivotal moment, and at this point in the game, with only one scum out of me and mderg, you can reduce the entire game to which of us acted as scum in this situation. Attempting to save sloosh would have gained scum nothing, but bussing him definitely helped them.

On June 10 2014 00:20 mderg wrote:

I don´t think sloosh would have 100% been lynched the next day. Palmar was heavily pushing the MZ lynch and could have been under pressure because he was scumreading sloosh but still going heavily against that lynch.

How does my reaction serve as evidence against me? I don´t know why slam was killed over me and I can only guess the reasons. Some kind of WIFOM doc save on me was possible, not very likely though. It´s also not like scum had to be that scared of me since I read you as town and my reads weren´t that good in general. The only reason to kill me would have been that I looked townie. And you can always WIFOM that.

You act like scum somehow has some divine knowledge about how the next days will play out. There was no reason scum would have seen that while town couldn´t. The only difference was that scum knew sloosh would flip scum while MZ would flip town. But the flip didn´t seem to have an impact on the following day. So why would scum realize that beforehand while town didn´t realize it until days after that?

Also why would you reduce the entire game to only one situation?
"I´ve looked more townie in one part of the game, so we should only look at that part of the game" to paraphrase it.