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On May 07 2014 09:02 WaveofShadow wrote:Austin where was all this stuff when JAT and I were discussing Foolishness days ago? As far as preflip associations go btw I'd be more sure of a Foolishness red flip if we were sure Palmar is town. Not quite sure why Poofter and Foolishness are inextricably linked, Palmar. DAYS ago I was busy pushing Oats and was kinda not paying attention to much else, which is actually crappy of me. I was gonna be in trouble if he weren't red.
Less days ago I was in post-scum-death bliss, more unsure on Foolishness. Like, one of the main things that I personally find off on Foolishness is (besides just disliking the SnB case) that things are continuing in the way they do.
Foolishness is either TOWN in a game where we've lynched scum 2x in a row, and 2 nights in a row mafia has NOT gotten the kills they wanted (martyrs and POSSIBLE medic protects depending on KP). In this case, I would think there would be more happiness, more wanting to lead town, more wanting to post something that warms my cockles.
So SOME of what I dislike are things that get more important over time, and get more important in the context of the way the game is going. Foolishness thinking everyone sucks donkey dicks while AT THE SAME TIME we've had a solid 144 hours while AT THE SAME TIME doing very very little to try and remove the mouths from the donkey dicks is a telling thing.
tl;dr more time has passed, and the context of the game has changed.
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21
What are the reads? Cuz as best I can tell, he's got enough town that you likely end up at the tail end of his scumlist.
I get the palmar/caller thing, but the summation of your thoughts on foolishness is "he has PRETTY MUCH the same reads as me", with no further detail, and no explanation of where you guys disagree? For this exact moment, I don't care if you're going to afk and do very little all game.
But i WOULD like to know what "foolishness has pretty much the same reads as me so I have no reason to lynch him" means.
What are the reads you agree with/disagree with? What ARE foolishness's reads? Do you know them?
Regardless of whether you feel thisOn May 07 2014 09:08 VayneAuthority wrote:
You are basing a scumread off some one's position on oats. who actually wants to take a stance on oats one of the most erratic players lol. I just ignored him all game and then he died, thats what you do with oats.
I'd still actually like to know why you feel the way you feel about Foolishness. (Also I totally want to take stances on oats, he's not unreadable AT ALL (you can join folks in reading thug life for that, lol))
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On May 07 2014 09:18 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 09:15 austinmcc wrote:21 What are the reads? Cuz as best I can tell, he's got enough town that you likely end up at the tail end of his scumlist.
I get the palmar/caller thing, but the summation of your thoughts on foolishness is "he has PRETTY MUCH the same reads as me", with no further detail, and no explanation of where you guys disagree? For this exact moment, I don't care if you're going to afk and do very little all game. But i WOULD like to know what "foolishness has pretty much the same reads as me so I have no reason to lynch him" means. What are the reads you agree with/disagree with? What ARE foolishness's reads? Do you know them? Regardless of whether you feel this On May 07 2014 09:08 VayneAuthority wrote:
You are basing a scumread off some one's position on oats. who actually wants to take a stance on oats one of the most erratic players lol. I just ignored him all game and then he died, thats what you do with oats.
I'd still actually like to know why you feel the way you feel about Foolishness. (Also I totally want to take stances on oats, he's not unreadable AT ALL (you can join folks in reading thug life for that, lol)) isn't thuglife where we had some one shoot oats because he was really scummy then he was town? that doesnt help. 22
gonna hold off posting more for a moment. People not posting, would be nice of you to donate some to JAT or myself, <3<3
Thug Life was austin keeps ranting that oats is town, oats WOULD have been lynched on like D4 or D5, but got cop checked overnight as town. Mr. Cheesecake in particular was pushing him for the next day and that was the main way he outed himself as mafia. Oats isn't unreadable. I can't claim to know his alignment 100% every game, but I've had a good track record of being correct any time I actually have a strong feeling on him. I dunno that I could teach you how to oatsread like I could teach you how to Dougie, however.
VA, I ... don't like that. Shocker. You're okay with Foolishness because of his reads from the start of D2. Of those 4 reads, 2 guys are dead (and he was 1 and 1), 2 are alive. And he doesn't APPEAR to be scummy on WoS anymore, although he hasn't explicitly said as much (see his posts referencing WoS). You're not at all troubled that "Foolishness's Reads", which you may like, are found at the start of D2, and he's basically put in less effort since then, despite town pushing itself further and further into a good position?
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Is there anyone in particular you'd prefer? I know you were generally angry eyebrows at the lurker folks, but does anyone in particular stick out more than others?
Also, this isn't "hey did you check one of those dudes last night", just wonderin'
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On May 07 2014 10:42 WaveofShadow wrote:
TY for posts Ceph. And holy shit Slam.
O.O
Austin this lynch feels so off to me. Is the way Foolishness has played over the last couple of cycles really just scum giving up? And the fact that so many people are seemingly not ok with the lynch by pushing other people and yet they all eventually fall in line....
Again I stick it out here foe earlier reasons but I have definite reservations here. I'm just not sure I see a scum Foolishness antagonize the people who are out to get him. It doesn't make sense. You agreed with me when I said so earlier.
If he DOES flip scum though I think we've all but won, and lynch into my list from last night to win. (Yet another reason why I don't think it makes sense for Foolishness to give up here unless the whole scumteam is basically afk now or beyond caring, which is of course a possibility).
Eh. I felt wonky on oats, feel slightly wonky on this, but what's the alternative? There's nobody who's 105% mafia, hands down, has to be, gggggggggggggg.
I'm FINE with lynching Foolishness. It feels good in this case? There's SOME resistance. There's him just straight doing jack and then giving up when the whole time town has been getting into a BETTER position. If nothing else, you've gotten more posty while scummers have been dropping. You were sadface earlier, now you seem to have a little more oomph, and that corresponds with good things for town happening. Foolishness is almost the opposite, except he's also got the whole getting called scum/getting lynched thing going on.
But like...he had posts and reads and stuff while town was slow, while we were barely getting people on board with lynches. The moment we start lynching scum, he's suddenly way more absent, and not in "I was wrong, feel like we're going in a good direction, gg let's win" way. He's actively kinda angry about how things are going, and that's NOT what I'd expect after, again, TWO SCUM LYNCHES and TWO NIGHTS OF SCUM NOT GETTING THE KILLS THEY WANT and THE TRAITOR DYING (even in a bad spot, there would ALWAYS be a hope for scum that the traitor was someone well situated).
Then look at his SnB case. It wasn't right. Not like, SnB was green, but like it just doesn't FEEL good. Couple people noticed it, and I was townie on SnB, didn't understand the suspicion but especially not the Fool case. Then there's a case on RoL. And a case on BH (who, as traitor, wouldn't be known to scum). Compare those to his posts on Oats. Foolishness is posting up a storm, researching up a storm, to show why SnB/RoL/BH mafia. All people the scum team knew were town or MAYBE traitor.
Then look at his treatment of oats. He's SCUMMY on oats, but never PUSHES oats. Oats is a secondary option N1. Oats is mafia on D2, but let's lynch RoL midway through the day instead. When Oats flips mafia, it's right back to RoL.
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. MAYBE HE'S TOWN AND PISSED AND FUCKING OFF BUT, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE GAME AS A WHOLE, IT DOESN'T FEEL THAT WAY?
I'd agree that mafia Foolishness clears up a couple folks. I'm pretty certain that he's mafia, again, not 105%, but there's the combination of the play, of the people he's chosen to look at and push, and then the fact that his response to the game swinging into a good position for town is to be less helpful. Maybe he town, but I don't think it adds up.
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On May 07 2014 11:23 Ace wrote:
It's as if you don't think that if Foolishness is Town, he can have varying degrees of who he thinks is scummy, which would obviously be reflected in the effort level of cases he makes. Unbelievable. Yeah, there's some spin there.
The alternate scenario is the the folks he's more sure on, snb/rol, were town, and the people he was less sure on were actually mafia.
And that because of suspicion/votes/pressure on him OR because of weekend + monday also, his interest in the game declined. He may also just think everyone is being jubjubs, in a non-playful way.
AND PROBABLY OTHER CRAP CUZ THAT IS STILL A BIT SPUN.
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Hello parade of last minute people 
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It's tempting, but euros + hard enough to get a majority on anyone + actually think foolish mafia
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poofter,
I liked VE's posting in the QT, Foolish was town on us both, and also him coming in here and saying we found Fool town reads town to me. That bit was saying that Foolish and BH weren't scumbuddies, because of some of the ways they'd interacted, but with BH being a traitor, the same logic doesn't apply. So him popping back after absence and saying something that...I think he thinks...but isn't entirely accurate, and being a little suspicious of me for that reads town. Oh nm, he was apparently more sure than I was that Sandro being added N1 meant Fool wasn't town. He looks good to me based on this, although it would be helpful if he'd keep playing.
I think I'm town on Gumshoe? He stuck around and responded reasonably for a couple posts when I caught him one time. It's weird that he's ONLY posted on oats really, but Fool didn't think that wsa too incriminating, although he wasn't sure what Gumshoe's alignment WAS, just that that post wasn't scummy in the ways that, for a bit, I found it scummy (one massive post, accuses one guy who is scum, quote tags messed up maybe being a cut and paste error).
I was townie on prplhz, Fool not so much, yesterday doesn't give us anything to work with there though. I still read going for Fool over the other two as a townie thing, but need to reread prpl's whole game.
In terms of the remainder, I'm kinda unknown. I've played much more with Palmar than Ace/Caller, think I've maybe got a game with each of the other two. VA is...curious. I didn't love his reason for fool being town (his reads from D2 match mine, see posts), and I don't like the whole "I'm claiming hero every other post, therefore I'm town" bit, because it can't be verified and if town DOES have like 3-4 vigis, it's possibly that's balanced out a bit by scum having a hero. Townhero with only one scum vigi seems a bit peculiar to me. Speculatory point against him or against you.
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Minor new thoughts in the post above, otherwise haven't looked at the game overnight. If I die, VE better post an ABBA song or else everyone that doesn't have real guns should shoot him.
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On May 09 2014 00:18 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2014 00:06 justanothertownie wrote:
@marv: The thing is - do you see a reason for caller to be town? I mean I am not dead set on shooting him over people like VE or gumshoe but he was on like every wrong wagon and useless besides that. Also, I don't really see why people think VA is town and I won't sheep a day1 read from Koshi who was very wrong on many things this game. Just finished reading the thread. Don't have great reasons for Caller to be town, but the Oats posts and his general attitude leave it as a possibility, and he is at least tied to players like Oats + VE, which means information can be gathered. I think gumshoe is reasonably likely to be town. One reason is that he went quite hard on Oats at some point. Also BH went at him. The biggest reason, imo (connecting the two), is that gumshoe made a very very long post saying for a long time how his accuser, BH, was town. Having spent a bazillion words saying how his accuser was town, he then used this sidestep to... call Oats mafia instead. This seems like such an unlikely mindset/sequence for mafia to pull off. Why bother spending so much time saying how your accuser is not mafia (when he is your scumbuddy) only to call another scumbuddy mafia instead? Simpler explanation = he is town. VA is quite possibly town because he keeps banging on about whatever his role is like a weirdo as if anyone ever gives a shit, but he just keeps on going on about it. Reminds me a bit of Hogwarts when he kept saying he was practically confirmed town for something role-related. You should shoot Ace 100%. He has nothing tying him to anyone. His flip is meaningless in regards to anyone else's alignment. Town loses nothing by losing Ace, and we might just hit a mafia. There's no particularly good reason to think he's town or scum, and with a lack of other connecting information, he is essentially the perfect shot. BH was traitor, not pure mafia.
Do you believe that he was recruited super early, and therefore D2 Gumshoe knew of BH? Because otherwise, a mafia Gumshoe has no knowledge of BH, they're not scumbuddies.
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We're not lynching VE. His first couple bits in the QT:
Immediately starts asking Fool/BH if they're okay with each otherOkay, having read this thang I only have one question for both of you:
Are you fine with the other one? As in, you've spent time together in here, do you feel like the other is trustworthy?
I assume the answer is yes based on what's been said in thread and in here but I want to make sure before we go further.
Starts poking them about reads, doesn't get why Foolishness wants to lynch RoL on D2 (looking more at Caller/Palmar, and doing so by 'splainin' himself AND pestering Fool/BH about their reads on the two, why they have em, etc.)
has 1800000000 options to call people scummy. Doesn't do says. Says gumshoe posting is different from gumshoe's normal play, but not townie/scummy for him. Pokes BH because BH wants to lynch Gumshoe, but also is okay lynching Oats (who is pushing Gumshoe). Calls BH scum in a joking way for that, in a way that reads townie.
Blah blah. Also I'm super duper convinced by him kinda sorta pushing me but not really. His posts in thread, and a couple in QT, read like he is confused about me, a little worried. He's...not sure if I'm town or not, but there's no malice behind it, there's no purpose like "I'm gonna lynch your ass pew pew pew." It's "wtf is up I thought this and that and why aren't you doing x, because I think you should be doing x as town, are you not town? Uh oh." ----> AND THEN HE ASKS ME STUFF AND WHATNOT, INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING I'M SCUM AND DRAWING BAD ASCII PICTURES AND TALKING ABOUT ABBA LIKE SOME OTHER JERK HAS BEEN DOING.
Anywho, VE is not mafia. Please try again.
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On May 09 2014 09:32 Tehpoofter wrote:
@Austin I don't have QT access but that instantly suspicious thing that you brought up reminds me of Catastrophe where I PMd VE during the PM phase and was hit with nothing but a wall about how he couldn't trust me. (He was traitor in that game) So when you said that it makes me actually feel like he is more Scummy. Haha, I also had a 1 to and 1 from conversation with VE that game.
It's not that he doesn't trust them though. He's instantly asking whether THEY trust each other, looking for what they've been thinking. He starts giving reads, asking for reads, and he drops the jokey bit on thinking BH was scum (he had BH pretty townie actually, all through the lynch). So it's not like he's sewing dissent, he's trying to see where they're at. He doesn't not trust them, and he doesn't not trust me now.
@slam/Austin/Jat/Wos/Palmer how is marv's scum game? Cause I had a pretty decent scum read on prphlz but Marv seems really town its hard to think they're the same "person" in the game cause htye seem like different alignments to me. Is marv good enough at scum to look townie like this? His scum game is solid. What seems really town to you about marv so far?
On May 09 2014 09:35 marvellosity wrote:
none of this says why VE is town. Please try again He called me a bitch Scum VE has never used dirty language towards me.
Also, it certainly indicates why he's town. More than foolish or BH (or myself I think except trying to be all sneaky and being an idiot), VE used the QT to try and figure out THEIR alignments, and also their reads, while sharing his own. I know you dislike him not pushing oats/voting oats, but you wrong.
His N1 chat with Ace is someone trying to figure out the game (both Ace himself and see whether he agrees with Ace's thoughts on other players). His QT stuff is him trying to figure out alignments there, and push lynches on scum suspects of his. During the times where VE has actually been here and not in stupid AFK land, he's looked to solve the game and that is positive. You know that.
Doesn't vote oats, along with a bunch of folks. Yes, he wouldn't respond to a couple questions I posed about Oats and his Oatsread. That's a + to me. If he's scumbuddies with oats, he doesn't even respond? He goes "I'm defending my scumbuddy, a lynch candidate, and this guy is hounding my scumbuddy, and he's asking about my read on my scumbuddy, I better just entirely ignore it over multiple questions"? No. Not buying it. People who gave shitty justifications like "can't read oats" or "oats is oats" are more likely to be scum, imo, than someone who just wouldn't answer questions about his read on oats.
Koshi thing is kinda meh, and if VE loves being right and wants to look all correct, why is he townie on caller ---> vote caller? Like you basically say "VE is mafia because of this Koshi quote where Koshi says VE likes being right" AND "It's worth noting that VE voted caller for a while, despite calling caller town and defending him." At the very least, the second negates the first. VE can't love being right and want to appear right AND take both sides of an issue.
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On May 09 2014 09:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2014 09:50 Tehpoofter wrote:On May 09 2014 09:40 marvellosity wrote:
also poofter, dunno what drugs you're smoking but prplhz was mega town. He had opinions and pushed stuff and said stuff. That alone makes prp 99% town. You should check out his scumgames. The good kind of course. The part that stuck out to me was his push on Foolishness the day that Ceph came out. I just can't understand how that is townie. Austin seemed to think so too so maybe I'm just missing it but he seemed to not care at all like he already knew the info. Can you explain why that push was townie? He also was tunneling Foolish the day Oats got lynched. Thats my hold up with him/you because your posts have all seemed townie but he was off to me. I haven't seen his or your scum games though so I can speak to neither and people talk about you being really good so if he was playing bad scum you could be playing good scum. Also What do you make of Ace's interaction with Palmer? and Caller's "everyone mass claim"? I wish we could shoot both of them tbh. I feel like Ace is trying to buddy Palmer after pushing him for days and Caller says not a lot for the whole game then says "hey can a bunch of roles out that would be nice" Can some of the quite people please seem town you can't all be scum? Thanks 3rd. Ok I'm only going to reply to this once, because it's a waste of my posts that I'm totally not wasting on other things like popcorns. The push on Foolish when Ceph had his claims is practically the towniest thing in his entire filter (other than said generic reasons which i mentioned) and it makes me sad that you don't understand why. Again with the background, prplhz = lurky, useless, does nothing scumplayer (to be fair, he does it as town also, but always as mafia)... anyway prplhz wanting to lynch Fool in general is just a read, lots of people wanted to lynch Foolish. Wanting to lynch Foolish on the day of the cop checks, well that's just unbelievably townie. There is literally zero chance a player like prplhz would stick his neck out and quite forcefully and repeatedly say we should be lynching Foolishness when there's a cop check. He would (and almost any mafia would) want to lynch into the cop claims. Because town is 100% going to lynch into the cop claims, so you're just drawing attention to yourself. You're suggesting a mafia prplhz, known for his passiveness (you don't need to know this), vehemently suggests lynching a town Foolishness in a situation where Foolishness can't possibly get lynched, in order to look terrible later when Fool flips town. It's ludicrous and you should be able to see why this is ludicrous. Engage yo brain. I think I've made it quite clear what i make of Ace. Caller's "mass claim" is silly, and not in any particular way, although I'd lean slightly town from it maybe, for the simple reason towns never massclaim when some random dude with no influence goes "let's all claim", while on the other hand it's a guarantee when some dude does that that at least one person in town goes "wow what a terrible, scummy idea". Effectively there's no upside to a mafia with no thread influence suggesting a massclaim because town will not do it and he will look weird for not doing it. The flipside (and why it's not a strong townlean for that) is that a mafia can just say "yolo let's suggest this" Mostly @poofter here.
This was basically my reasoning when I called prplhz super townie. Foolishness was more worried about prplhz, just not sure what to make of him and kinda scummy, I was very very townie because sticking neck out and aiming AWAY from the cop checks (when you can just kill the townie and waste time) read very town to me.
i THINK that BH being traitor negates this. The rest of prplhz's filter is still valuable and we need to look at it hard, but the voting Foolishness stuff is meh because if scum trusted the check, they knew that EITHER slam or BH was traitor. Scum wanting to lynch outside a town/scum check doesn't make sense to me, because they can push for a 1:1 lynch, at least try and swing things that way.
But scum don't want to lynch the traitor. If they haven't tried to recruit, cephiro's check says TO TOWN "one of these guys is scum." TO MAFIA, it says "one of these guys is the traitor." Mafia has, at worst, a 50/50 shot now at recruitment, instead of having to pick the traitor out of everyone. Just waiting even one day lets them try to recruit and be at full strength. I can totally understand mafia wanting to lynch outside the cop check IF the cop checks the traitor. I thought it was super townie because I thought the cop check had found a full-fledged mafia. Marv is arguing the same thing now, and while "scum prplhz dislikes sticking his neck out" is possibly a valid point, "scum would want to lynch into the cop check" is not.
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On May 09 2014 10:15 marvellosity wrote:
ok austin, I'll have this lynch without you, I don't need you. None of your defences suggest anything mafia-VE wouldn't do, in fact the things you are reading as townie are not in fact townie.
Active in QT -> doesn't have to be active in the thread, has to play with less people
Chat with Ace -> ??? just a nothing.
Has looked to solve the game while he wasn't afk -> literally totally untrue. He's done the opposite of that. He's not tried to solve anything. See 3-scumread post I quoted. Literally the opposite of trying to solve anything.
Refusing to answer why he has an unexplained townread on Oats -> yep, definitely not townie
Caller stuff -> likes to be right, ends up just going with the flow of the thread anyway (which was policy Caller). So he wants to be right and then caves to the path of least resistance because the thread says so. No bollocks.
Then his response to his case on me = "I am going to find mafia!" ----> "marv is mafia for no other reason than he thinks I am mafia" ----> "please guise vote for this dude, even though I have taken the really easy way out of doing no work and just omgus marv"
If you really think VE is a bad target, you're better off spending your time finding a good other target, because currently your defences are making me think VE is more likely to be mafia, because if these are the best reasons for VE to be town, then they're appalling. They're not appalling and you know it. He doesn't have to be active ANYWHERE, he's been inactive at times in the QT (last phase). But he goes and is actively poking at Foolishness and engaging him. That's townie activity.
As far as not trying to solve the game, what? "He's not tried to solve anything". He tried to figure out Foolishness and BH's alignments. He tried to figure out what their reads were on Caller and Palmar, and why. He tried/is trying to figure out why I wanted to lynch Foolishness, and how I feel about you. You pointing to a post or two where he DOESN'T TRY to figure out the game is nothing. If I go "there are a lot of balloons in this room", you can't point at a table and go "THAT ISN'T A BALLOON" when there are also 20 balloons up in the air. He hasn't tried to solve the game with every post, looks like. That doesn't change what he did with his other activity.
Refusing to answer the townread IS townie. Scum give crappy answers, get mixed up, whatever. Scum VE doesn't just ignore stuff for that long.
Likes to be right --> takes both sides of an issue. There's something wrong with that one. I can't quite put my finger on it. Unless Caller is both town and scum, I guess.
You're wrong here, and VE isn't the lynch, and he's pretty rightfully suspicious of you. I don't think you're a good lynch for today, neither of you are, but your push is bad. Not only are some of the things you're bringing up meh (koshi quote --> caller swap), but you're essentially saying "I just joined, and also I don't have access to everything VE has posted, but everyone should trust what I'm saying more than what the people that DO have access to VE's game are saying." I didn't trust Fool, now I know he's town, we both had townreads on VE, we both agree he was very townie in the QT. That's not everything, but it's enough that not just I should be looking elsewhere, but so should YOU.
Can anyone who wants to lynch VE raise both hands?
Can anyone who thinks VE is mafia, or thinks marv has a good case here, raise one hand?
I'm interested in talking to anyone who thinks the case is solid, that VE is the lynch today. My first question to you is going to be the balloon/table thing. I know you can't see all the balloons, but do you think that "The room is not full of balloons because here is a table" ("VE has not been trying to solve the game, here is a post where he doesn't") is a MOST AWESOME point? Other questions will follow, I really want to look into this and we can get peeps active and talking so yes it's lovely and talk to me yumyum.
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On May 09 2014 10:36 Ace wrote:
austin by far the mvp right now. So much sensible stuff. Any chance you got in-game reasons, not Dota 2 steam group related ones, for the swap on Palmar?
He's more likely to get lynched today than any other day, you could finally complete your glorious mission, but you seem to have abandoned the quest.
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On May 09 2014 10:46 Ace wrote:
Yea he could but I see Caller as a bigger scum possibility. Palmar has at least tried to figure the game out a bit (just like yours truly). Caller asking for massclaim when he knows better is much fishier to me.
Besides, I'm still not fully over Day 1 shenanigans. I don't think the massclaim matters much. He knows it won't happen, and I don't share your coroner worries b/c as far as we know, there's only one shot left. If we've got a coroner, he's done his job, and any protective roles SHOULD have been on Cephiro last night, so it's likely that scum just has the 1 night kill, not that we've had 2 protects in a row before last night (possible double stack, i guess).
I just don't think a coroner gives much more intel at this point, or at least intel that's gonna be useful.
In the same vein I don't see a mass claim doing squat, there aren't any watchers/trackers to call people out on fakeclaiming VT, not really any benefit to claims. Given that scum just killed the cop, no coroner has claimed despite us having no flips for a while and likely having only 1 more max, and us having no protective roles (likely) if scum didn't double stack, I don't see any...scummy motive for pushing a fakeclaim.
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A massclaim doesn't matter for that though, Ace.
All we need is a coroner to say "They were this alignment, I am coroner."
Also, how does...knowing the alignments of the no-flip players help mafia? They know who the traitor is. They know who the mafia is. By process of elimination, they can pretty damn near guess 100% of the townies. They already know everything, unless Koshi/Yamato had specific roles, and if they DID have roles, who cares, scum don't care, they're dead.
It's entirely the opposite. Mass claim (or really, just a coroner saying the alignments) reveals information to TOWN. Scum knows the alignments on those guys, town doesn't.
You cray.
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EPT
