Also i THINK that if mafia had recruited BH, things would have been a little closer yesterday? I voted slam hoping maybe there'd be a little movement back to him or anything, but there was NOTHING.
Given the disinterest in voting slam, both when I posted some meta stuff against him earlier and then voting him late (more the actual case-y stuff than the pure vote, because scum COULD have glommed onto that case saying "boy howdy I couldn't read oats, but you said he were garsh darn mafia and he were. Now I can't read slam but you say he's one of them mafia varmints so I reckon he might just be mafia"), it seems highly unlikely to me that mafia had recruited BH. I absolutely see the argument for thinking Ceph was the traitor, and between that AND the lack of push towards slam, I kinda think mafia was unsure on yesterday's lynch and thought Slam was the traitor (or ceph I guess with a fakeclaim).
Whatevs. That's not particularly telling, except for prplhz (again, especially if fool is mafia).
I remember him being lurky slash just not posting, making a couple large cases or give-game-direction posts. In both bureaucracy and parallel worlds that FELT like what he did. His D1 in bureaucracy was I think more lurky, and he died D2 or D3, somewhere in there. In parallel I don't think I was super scummy on him and then I got killed before he did much.
So I don't have much in the way of experience to call him scummy off of.
The QT doesn't really matter. I'm posting Foolishness stuff from it mainly to get people to quit talking about it. It doesn't matter if it's outed, or if we all die, or anything like that, but I think that talk about QT, and scumhunting via QT, are not as advantageous to town as making people post about actual other stuff, who has done what that is scummy, and not what might or might not be true about a QT that might or might not exist.
Foolishness was added at the start of D1, before he'd done anything, this bit is true. BH added someone every night thereafter. On N1, they discussed who to add, BH decided on Sandroba. Said he added Sandroba, but was given another bite at the apple given Sandroba's dead-ness, and another person was added shortly thereafter. If true, it's an indicator that BH was not recruited on D1.
As far as relevant Foolishness stuff in there:
Palmar holding town hostage instictively town-palmar-y
Prplhz overreacted in the past as mafia when accused, not sold on prplhz but wants to poke and see what happens
Geript is geript-y
Cephiro's opening is townie, in line was past town openings
As far as snb voters go (this is still D1, no flip/no lynch yet), worried only about Palmar and SnB
Don't know anything about oats, is he a good lynch?
Unsure whether to be happy with snb voters or worried
Oats's past games don't match up with this one, either town OR scum
"Shape might be conclusive here because I cannot find anything of that shape when he's town. He has those kinds of posts when he's mafia.
Of course I'm not switching to Oats unless we really have to. But at the end of the day he might not be a bad lynch, and worth looking into tomorrow if he's still alive." <-------- Fool re: oats
This lynch doesn't feel like it was mafia pushed. Felt like town messing up. Will confirm later.
Foolishness suggests inviting me to QT N1 (I was not the invitee that night). Feels like I'm town at a glance, but hasn't looked into me hard.
Palmar likely town if he continues to play the game. If afk for all of D2, kill immediately. Coming in to just post reads (N1) while being under no pressure = townie. Palmar and Sandroba both probably town. Suggests sandroba being added to the QT, rather than Palmar or myself or someone else.
Start of D2: "I'm still not feeling the Palmar lynch, but I could be convinced otherwise. It bothers me that Ace is pushing it and not doing anything else. sandroba also said that Palmar is mafia (but he also said that I'm mafia).
I'm tempted to push on Oatsmaster to see how that transpires."
Wouldn't be upset on D2 if Caller or Palmar got lynched, but doesn't think either of them is the best option for town.
Ace feels open, not hiding anything, not pushing an agenda, would probably be trying harder to do something if he were mafia.
Mystery man asks Foolishness what he thinks about BH. Fool doesn't know, isn't worried about it.
Not in response to anything really specific, on D2: "Though Blazinghand, I do still think that thing on Oatsmaster really points to him being mafia.
And yeah I realize it's all heuristical hence I'm not doing anything about that particular point."
"Someone go in the thread and say that I'm town for:
1) posting reads and cases 2) responding to situations and not ignoring them 3) not being afk
Of which all my reads are not doing." (This actually feels minorly townie to me. I'm not used to seeing scum give out a press release on why they're town and ask folks to disseminate it). When asked why people should defend him, "Because the arguments hold more weight when someone else says them. I only care cause the votes were close and town will lose if they lynch me."
Wants to add me or poofter N2
Unsure why BH would think Ceph lying about cop claim? (Perhaps point in Fool's favor? If BH no recruited, town is assuming the check is golden, scum has no clue what's up because as far as they know ceph has checked town/town
Still worried about prplhz, but doesn't want to kill him D3/D4, is kinda interested in what I'm thinking about prplhz (when I'm posting that I think prplhz town for wanting to lynch outside slam/BH)
Foolishness and I have to argue with BH and explain how traitors work. lololol
Fool and I both confused at what BH tries to say about Cephiro maybe being a traitor, but failing to get recruited, trying to cover his butt with a made up cop check...seriously it made no/little sense. Nothing terribly important there though
Foolishness says he gets townie vibes from Gumshoe, including Gumshoe's big early D2 post where he votes oats and cases oats. I was initially very worried about that post, because I've never seen Gumshoe actually post cases and stuff in games, but apparently he's been posty in some and lurky in the ones we've played jointly. Foolishness generally finds gumshoe townie, refutes some points I make that the post may have been pre-written and a copy-paste error causes some of the wonky quote tags in the post.
"I'd be surprised if either JAT or poofter was mafia. Especially poofter given what happened on day 2."
When I pray to ABBA to safeguard me through the night, Foolishness notes that ABBA had my back
THE END
It's not been the most active QT. He was more active in it D1, early days, talked a decent bit with BH, has gone less posty recently. Unsure if weekend or sad about buddies. Generally, there was a small amount of anti-oats stuff, nothing that makes him super townie, not enough of it, and nothing where he's really trying to PUSH oats to the QT people. He was generally anti-BH yesterday, we were both confused at how BH was interpreted Cephiro's claim, at how the scenarios he was making up could ever be true (Cephiro traitor, guessed Slam and BH for mafia, was told that was incorrect and he failed to join mafia team ----> he fakeclaims cop and says one of those guys is mafia, thinking this will signal to the scumteam that he's the traitor, and will also get town to mislynch these people, stuff like that)
It exists. It's not magical. I don't THINK foolishness's posts in QT point, in particular, to any alignment.
On May 06 2014 04:01 Alakaslam wrote: JAT dude the qt probably contains the martyrs or some other sensitive info. Back off on that.
Foolishness is town.
I have no idea why you think there would be more martyrs or why that would be in the qt. And I have SERIOUSLY no idea why you think what austin posted makes Foolishness town. Look, I trust austin so I will work with what he gave us and shut up about the qt. Fact is - there is obviously nothing in there that makes Foolishness town. Look at Catastrophe or Shadow game and pay attention to the cases Foolishness gives in those game. How much work, point of view explanation and detail is in there. How correct he was about many things in both games day1. Then look at this game. Then put your vote where it fucking belongs.
What I wrote out is what's there. It doesn't make him town, no. It doesn't make him auto-mafia. To me, it was kinda meh either way, and I wanted to see who was super duper concerned with the QT over anything else. I know I'm in it so I see things differently, but to me he/others are scummy or not for stuff that's in the thread already, and anyone who was just sitting around going "GIV QT" with nothing more was someone I wanted to maybe look at more.
Also, slam has been town on Fool I believe since before the QT. Afaik, that's "fool is town" and not "fool is town b/c of QT stuff."
On May 06 2014 09:36 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright let's see here. Austin, I suppose if you were trying to trap those who have been tunneling Foolishness or something, alright, but what have you got to show for waiting and wasting my time? I don't really appreciate you not setting me straight. I mean I appreciate the QT info, but you really just had to say you were in there. (Now of course this could be one epic as fuck scumplay from you---if anybody could do it, it would be you but I think at this point I'd be willing to lose to you if you pulled something like this and essentially faked an entire QT or something.)
Can we talk a little plz? Who do you want lynched today, and why?
Now Foolishness I'd appreciate the answering of a few questions if possible. 1) Like JAT says, there are a few cruicial reads missing---where are your reads on me/RoL from that QT considering you were attempting to push us to some degree D1? 2) What from the information that Austin released was so absolutely crucial to your 'circle' that you couldn't release any of it?
Unrelated---I'm wondering now if one of the original shots wasn't on scum. If there has been a successful protect the past couple nights I can't imagine they had two shots (unless they had only 1 KP from the start I guess...). I still want Poofter lynched right now, and until somebody offers me something better he is who I will be pushing. 3) This isn't a question but can you do something today so I can feel justified in not lynching you beyond the stuff Austin said?
What have I got for wasting your time? My whole thing is that no time was wasted, but I understand we feel differently there. I'd rather we be looking at non-QT crap, cuz the QT has jack all. And BH would have been pure claiming scum if he didn't invite me, because of the oats lynch + everyone calling me townie + protective roles SAYING they'd target me. You HAVE to add that person, imo. I honestly assumed that everyone would assume I was in there. Also, my recent scumplay has been a far cry from epic.
I want to lynch Foolishness. I do not want to lynch poofter today. Foolishness more likely scum, Foolishness more info/connections. Time to de-foo the scumteam. Nobody being particularly active means no trapping, there doesn't seem to be any desire from anyone to ever formulate other reads except to check in every 72 hours, say someone is mafia, and dip.
Why poofter over foolishness?Cephiro,
I guess don't reveal who you checked last night, but I would personally <3 if you looked into the group of Ace/Caller/palmar/VA/Poofter. With probably a preference towards...ace/palmar/VA. All checks valid, no checks not accepted, and you may or may not die tonight, so ... maybe we get successful checks, maybe no.
The stuff in the QT isn't meant to make you feel townie on Foolishness or make you not want to lynch him. On my first read-through, I thought there was a little more chatter about Oats, a little more forcefulness from him on pushing Oats to BH.
Looking back at it, I don't get that, and a lot of the points where BH pesters Foolishness on D2 about possible lynches, he wants to talk about Caller and Palmar. Foolishness doesn't show massive interest in those, but at the same time, isn't PUSHING oats, just occasionally saying he could be mafia/is scummy, but sometimes just saying "Do you think there's enough to gain over lynching Caller instead of someone like Ace, Oats, RoL, WoS, etc.?"
Overall, he doesn't feel like town Foolish, his early cases felt butt, he's not using the QT to really direct anything and isn't really responding to prompting, and all the oats junk never adds up. There's little extra stuff about Foolishness, like when I'm poking at him D2 and I don't understand his "mafia didn't worry about lynch + oats is scum" stuff, and he just asks me (I think sarcastically or like...in a wry manner) aren't I the guy pushing oats D1.
If he really was scummy on oats, he would know that the only thing I did for two days basically was push Oats, and when BH is asking about who to add, I think he'd be slightly pushier on adding me (we shared a scumread, lynched him, the dude was ACTUALLY mafia, and I'm ... not that hard to read normally).
Correct me if I'm way off here but is there any reason Foolishness is Scum that has anything to do with not being related to a QT? I've skimmed this thread and that's one of the dumbest reasons to lynch someone ever. BH was scum, so Foolishness was in a QT with him = Foolishness scum?
The only reasons are non-QT related. QT stuff matters almost zero, BH adding him matters zero.
The SnB case doesn't read like town-foolishness
Sandro scummy on Foolishness
Foolishness made 0 attempt to ... lead take/take over/post much in the way of reads
That same point x2 given how passive some of our days have been
Scummy on oats, but doesn't think mafia worried about the D1 lynch (which was almost oats at one point), and instead of pushing oats pushes RoL. Goes through past games of SnB, prplhz, RoL, WoS, everyone except....oats. Just says oats is mafia for not posting, when MULTIPLE players say oats is not scummy, he's just oats-y. Foolishness, ye olde lover o' past games and meta reads, declines to comment AT ALL basically on oats's past games, whether this is oats-y behavior, and just half-ass wants to lynch him, except not as much as RoL, even when oats is being discussed heavily.
Foolishness has essentially pushed SnB, prplhz (ish), oats, RebirthOfLegend, very very very likely Cephiro, and pretty likely JAT.
Granted I think it was the first mislynch on him evah, but in Shadow Game Foolishness was ... pretty defensive. When folks turned their gaze on him hard, he was making cases, reading a bunch of past games of half the game, trying actively to solve things. Here, there's been mid-level scumspicion on him the whole time and he's done...not much/any of that, again, really 0 interest in trying to round people up and lead town really.
Kinda just never ever PUSHING his reads. He's willing to consolidate on anyone D2, rather than actively trying to get any support for RoL. On D3 he drops one post on BH/Slam, and then there's nothing else.
This is smelly only in hindsight, and only if Foolishness flips mafia, and really isn't scummy but it's just kind of neat if he's mafia
On May 03 2014 09:39 Foolishness wrote: I'm definitely not giving away anything about the mason QT unless it's necessary to confirm someone's alignment/behavior or until the traitor is dead. Mechanics about it only helps mafia/traitor who may have extra information regarding peoples' roles.
Cephiro, do you know how your parity checks work in relation to the traitor? e.g. say you check the traitor night 1 and a town night 2, do you get a different result? Does it depend on if the traitor's been recruited (and if so when)?
Those are my reasons. JAT has also posted a couple things that I hadn't been looking at, a couple inconsistencies in his posting, like saying he wasn't going to claim QT stuff until the traitor died --> BH dies, flips traitor --> I'm not claiming QT stuff.
The ONLY QT-related reasons to lynch him are basically that he's also not trying to wrangle up any control there, and while he and BH chatted a good bit on D1, he's not really trying to push BH towards RoL D2, not trying to push him towards Oats, really just ... not interested in arguing his reads within the QT, and lately not very interested in discussing anything.
If that changes and we get to yappin', I'll say so.
Nono, we lynched scum on D2 and D3, while you just said to lynch Palmar. Who, granted, may be scum this game.
It's less critique-the-summary time and more I'm-ace-and-I-think-the-following-about-Foolishness time, or something like that.
That said, I'll play the game cuz it's fun.
Drop the word pushed here
Foolishness has essentially pushed SnB, prplhz (ish), WoS, oats, RebirthOfLegend, very very very likely Cephiro, and pretty likely JAT.
These are the folks he's been scummy on. We'll add WoS there, who was thrown into a reads post. So far it's a lot of incorrect reads. It's not about the pushing, it's about the number of green/likely green folks. Foolishness doesn't have to be magically right on everything, but if he's WRONG on SnB, then WRONG on RoL, probably wrong on Cephiro, and thinks JAT is town despite thinking he was scummy earlier, then you've got a Foolishness who has been very wrong about the game, and is not attempting to correct that. Some folks were "pushed" for lynching, but mainly in a single post, possibly 2-3. For the most part, he followed up his reads with about as much effort as you put into pushing Palmar.
The word pushed can be removed and the point is the same, pushed was just poor wording.
Dunno on the QT contradiction stuff. I don't believe there was any post. He's got a filter that you can find and look for a change in reasoning though <3
As far as the first 4 reasons, meh. Him not reading the same as town foolishness ain't garbage, it's just not anything you can really present to another person as convincing evidence (at least in that format above)
On May 06 2014 11:12 Ace wrote: Foolishness can answer that when he gets back. If not or the answer is trash I'll vote him tomorrow. Not gonna filter dive when there are basketball games to watch.
I don't want to ruin it for you, but here's how the games come out:
The Spurs, despite being terrible human beings for crushing the dreams of every 7 seconds or less fan, continue to be the Spurs and make you almost not want to hate them, because they're so damn good and win so much.
The Hawks finally quit overpaying mid-tier stars, but instead of sucking ass and just letting you know they'll be rebuilding, continue to drag themselves into the playoffs and semi-contend for a round, even though you know there will be no chance of them actually doing anything.
There. Playoffs over, you can go read Foolishness now. Short game, short filter.
On May 06 2014 15:05 WaveofShadow wrote: Austin, does scum Foolishness purposefully play useless and antagonistic like this in thread (but semi-useful in QT)?
Not that I know of, unless maybe marv is involved.
What do you find to be casting townie light within the QT
Recently, Poofter wrote:
@austin Thanks for the breakdown of the QT I think this makes foolish look really townie and I really don't see a scum team going all in on a single QT. I also understand reasons for not saying the names of others in the QT. I want to say though if you have info about how/when those persons in the QT were recruited and who pushed for them I think it might be valuable to the thread especially since I think Foolish is town. Did BH give other suggestions on recruits? I saw that you said Foolish was looking at me or you.
What in particular about the QT makes Foolish look really townie? What do you mean by "don't see a scum team going all in on a single QT"?
Foolish recruited start of D1. El Gato Mysterioso recruited N1 Me recruited N2 BH ded
Just a normal recruiter where you add dudes at night. Only differences being BH was able to recruit someone at the very very start of the game, to have a buddy during D1, and ... at least he claimed, was able to choose a new target N1, he added Sandro but Sandro was ded, therefore BH was allowed to grab El Gato.
Also I'm just going to dick around with the name of the other guy because I find it amusing.
Foolish read. Gut, and then anything you find interesting. I posted the crap from the QT, and all you've got on Fool is why would he be hesitant to divulge anything from the QT if mafia. Was there anything in there you think makes more sense to hide as town/mafia ----> Overall read now that it's in the open and Foolishness has seemingly abscondedGumshoejuice gumshoejuice GUMSHOEJUICE
You've been summoned.
You too get the Once In a Lifetime Chance to talk about Foolishness. Or anyone else. I'd love to hear from you on Foolishness + A Person of Your Choosing. Either something you found in the BH reread that you, cough cough, said you would probably do during N3, or from Any Other Reading.
From earlier today, when asked whether his thoughts on D1 were altered at all.
"No, I still don't think snb's lynch was mafia driven. The only mystery person is Koshi who didn't flip, but I think he was town (speculating about his alignment is not very productive anyways). Blazinghand pushed it but he was the traitor, highly unlikely to have been recruited by then.
If you think I'm the lynch for today then you're severly misjudging the game and what's going on. I really hope the rest of your reads are right because if I get mislynched I'm pretty sure town will downward spiral after that. You can't just kill off an active scumhunter based on "suspicions" as you say and hope that everything will turn out alright in the end. Majority of town losses are because of that.
I'm really running out of motivation to play the game."
Then there's some salty stuff where he not happy. He said he was gone, and will be back at night if he's not lynched.
It may mean that, it might not. It's not as if there isn't a giant pile of people not posting at all this game.
There WOULD be value in just lynching/shooting everyone who isn't doing anything, but it's never an easy thing to make yourself do. He's right, somewhat, to defend himself on activity/scumhunt-y grounds, but when I looked at his recent stuff there actually isn't that much.
Since the D2 post on RoL/WoS/oats, he posted on BH/slam, and he posted a second bit on RoL at the start of D3. There's been ACTIVITY, but I'm mixed on whether it's really useful, and I don't think that defending oneself on "you're killing one of the only active players" is valid when the activity isn't as scumhunt-y as I want/expect.
Do you guys have thoughts on that? There's BEEN scumhunting from him, but like...what % of his time since that WoS/RoL/Oats post has been scumhunt-y, what percentage scumhunt-y/push the game forward-y? Am I off in my evaluation?
On May 07 2014 07:53 VayneAuthority wrote: austin foolishness has pretty much the same reads as me so I have no reason to lynch him. If he flips scum then I will just follow you guys the rest of the game but I still have a little dignity. Everyone seems to forget that palmar threatened to play anti-town and then didnt die to that fake nuke and that caller was the one that shot it. anyone that thinks this is not 2 fuckers fucking around is blind imo, pretty sure they are both mafia.
What are the reads? Cuz as best I can tell, he's got enough town that you likely end up at the tail end of his scumlist.
I get the palmar/caller thing, but the summation of your thoughts on foolishness is "he has PRETTY MUCH the same reads as me", with no further detail, and no explanation of where you guys disagree?
I read this and felt like a lot of the stuff he was saying was pretty neutral and/or requires the knowledge of other's alignments i.e. Palmer/Caller/Ace/Prphlz to be town. I did however feel like the bolded parts stood out to me and found the point I underlined the most interesting as austin you made the big thing about how Foolishness didn't research Oats' games when the underlined part makes it seem like he did at least look through them and didn't see similarities (obviously he could fake that and just say he did to seem neutral but why not give a position) The thing is that (assuming what you posted was chronological order) He went from I'm unsure on Oats to talking about his past games and they don't match up. To me that shows a townie thought train of hmm I don't know about x better go research him. If he didn't find anything conclusive it also explains why he didn't express his views in the thread cause what good is that info?
Look at what he does with SnB, prplhz, or people in past games. He pulls from multiple games, generally creating a full idea of what someone plays like.
With oats, his QT posts are:
I'm looking through Oatsmaster's game. This game looks neither like his town nor his mafia play.
those are both D1. Nothing about oats's stuff ever brought to thread though, and that was it. No more posts in QT about his meta. Nothing in the game about his meta. I don't see "hey here's a single post and a single post" as equivalent to what I think of when I think of Fool looking at someone's past games. There are...NO conclusions there except "eerily similar", there was NO checkup on whether people who said "oats = oats" had merit, etc.
If you read just the text of those posts, you go "Foolishness says he's looking into oats!" But there's nothing in thread. There's no analysis, no conclusions, anywhere. Especially in a game where I had a hard time convincing people that this looked like mafia oats and not "oats", it is ... off ... to me that the above is ALL we've got, ESPECIALLY if Foolishness thought he was scum, and ESPECIALLY if he was almost the D1 lynch and Foolishness thought he was scum, and ESPECIALLY if Foolishness was the secondary lynch candidate AND oats was almost the D1 lynch AND Foolishness thought he was scum.
If you're town and Foolishness is scum, you're going wrong because you're not drawing a complete picture of Foolishness, you're valuing little things he says in a QT over what's in thread, you're looking at some things and you're not looking for CONCLUSIONS and ACTIONFOOLISHNESS.
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