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Amiko has been talking, and his posts make me think that he's seriously trying to figure this one out. Cleared.
@dfs,
This post, his first post, makes me think that he's mafia.
On April 29 2014 16:11 dfs wrote:
Everybody is on my scum list untill proven otherwise, the day is still young.
Everyone is mafia, according to him, until proven otherwise. This is the small point that made me suspicious. Generally, you think people are town until proven mafia.
I've cleared yellow as town, but at the bottom of the scale. Why? It's because I have greater suspicions on other people, and those other people are pushing yellow.
Eden was cleared because he's been asking good questions. He's a bit more low tone than last game, so I think I need to keep an I on him.
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And about the whole "why do I think bunnies is town" situation, it's just because Occam's razor, she might be mafia, and made a good play to make us think she's town, it's a possibility, but it's unlikely. But there is a red flag next to her name in my head. And I was never really suspicious of her, I kind of implied she might be mafia, it was mostly just to see her reaction to that, she pretty much just ignored it so I don't think I got anything from that, but overall I believe her, for now. Mostly because she kept pushing even though nobody seemed to really agree with her, it took a little bit before she unvoted me.
And about Epishade, I think it's just because he was the first to defend me, which would make no sense as a mafia play, why wouldn't he just jump on the BW of an easy lynch? The possibility raised by dravernor that they're both mafia and made this plot so both of them would look town is, I think, unlikely, because, again, Occam's razor.
But I'm not sure on either of them, it's just the most likely scenario is that they're both town, by a pretty wide margin, I think.
And about Eden, I was asked, though I was planning on talking about it a little bit anyways, he was actually the person I thought was the most suspicious last night, I just don't think his behavior made sense. I didn't have time to analyse it fully though and I will probably talk about it some more, but I am glad someone brought it up.
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EBWOP *Eden was clared because he's been asking good questions. However, he's a bit more low tone than last game, so I think I need to keep an eye on him.
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I actually did just go back to the last game, I feel Eden did vote swap some in his last game on d1, but it was usually with reason (robik -> cavalinho -> tolkien on d1 and his posts provided reasoning) so his votes felt a little more serious to me in that game. This doesn't make him too much more suspicious to me at this point, but it is something I'd consider at least.
@Sqrt: Can you talk a little on why you feel epishade is clear? I don't feel like you seem to have commented on him at all aside from mentioning he looked through prior games. I do feel that point is towny so I agree with you somewhat there.
But, what did you think about epishade's interactions with yell0w/bunnies?
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On April 30 2014 02:39 Yell0w wrote:
And about Eden, I was asked, though I was planning on talking about it a little bit anyways, he was actually the person I thought was the most suspicious last night, I just don't think his behavior made sense. I didn't have time to analyse it fully though and I will probably talk about it some more, but I am glad someone brought it up.
If you are town make sure you follow through with this. In your filter I don't see Eden mentioned at all until this post, so if you felt he was suspicious you haven't shown it so far. I do think mtamburini may be overstating it a little with what he said here:
On April 30 2014 00:17 mtamburini wrote:
Your grasping so hard right now at things to take pressure off yourself and onto someone else for your slip ups it's laughable.
But I think it is reasonable to think you want to shift things to Eden.
I'll be out for a few hours :x
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Epishade initially had scumread on bunnies, and then retracted it quickly.
He has townread on yellow, which I agree with.
He's been contributing, which is enough for me.
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On April 30 2014 02:39 Yell0w wrote:
And about the whole "why do I think bunnies is town" situation, it's just because Occam's razor, she might be mafia, and made a good play to make us think she's town, it's a possibility, but it's unlikely. But there is a red flag next to her name in my head. And I was never really suspicious of her, I kind of implied she might be mafia, it was mostly just to see her reaction to that, she pretty much just ignored it so I don't think I got anything from that, but overall I believe her, for now. Mostly because she kept pushing even though nobody seemed to really agree with her, it took a little bit before she unvoted me.
And about Epishade, I think it's just because he was the first to defend me, which would make no sense as a mafia play, why wouldn't he just jump on the BW of an easy lynch? The possibility raised by dravernor that they're both mafia and made this plot so both of them would look town is, I think, unlikely, because, again, Occam's razor.
But I'm not sure on either of them, it's just the most likely scenario is that they're both town, by a pretty wide margin, I think.
And about Eden, I was asked, though I was planning on talking about it a little bit anyways, he was actually the person I thought was the most suspicious last night, I just don't think his behavior made sense. I didn't have time to analyse it fully though and I will probably talk about it some more, but I am glad someone brought it up.
I like this post. I really do.
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Netherlands6191 Posts
On April 30 2014 02:39 Yell0w wrote:
And about the whole "why do I think bunnies is town" situation, it's just because Occam's razor, she might be mafia, and made a good play to make us think she's town, it's a possibility, but it's unlikely. But there is a red flag next to her name in my head. And I was never really suspicious of her, I kind of implied she might be mafia, it was mostly just to see her reaction to that, she pretty much just ignored it so I don't think I got anything from that, but overall I believe her, for now. Mostly because she kept pushing even though nobody seemed to really agree with her, it took a little bit before she unvoted me.
And about Epishade, I think it's just because he was the first to defend me, which would make no sense as a mafia play, why wouldn't he just jump on the BW of an easy lynch? The possibility raised by dravernor that they're both mafia and made this plot so both of them would look town is, I think, unlikely, because, again, Occam's razor.
But I'm not sure on either of them, it's just the most likely scenario is that they're both town, by a pretty wide margin, I think.
And about Eden, I was asked, though I was planning on talking about it a little bit anyways, he was actually the person I thought was the most suspicious last night, I just don't think his behavior made sense. I didn't have time to analyse it fully though and I will probably talk about it some more, but I am glad someone brought it up.
Okay I had to google Occam's razor for that to make any sense to me. Anyway, I just wanted to clear up that while it is unlikely that Epishade and bunnies are scum together on the basis that it is the first day and it seems unlikely that such an elaborate scheme was thought up and executed so quickly, it would indeed be clever and confusing play. I think it is more likely that it is one or the other, and my vote does swing more to Epishade because of his defensiveness early on.
On another note, I really don't see anything wrong with assuming everyone to be scum until cleared as town. I guess I am perhaps brought up to see things differently, and possibly being from a third world country where everyone is seen as a potentially dangerous stranger doesn't help that viewpoint. Either way, I don't think it is a very strong reason to suspect someone. At least in my opinion. This being my first game I might be wrong, I don't know.
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So I am back awake, and will now start catching up with conversation. But here are some initial thoughts just skimming over the last few pages I have missed.
@ Yell0w: So you agree with me "100% with you, some mafia talks a lot, which is why I said he(sqrt) was mafia.", but then later state in that same paragraph that you don't think him talking in indicative of being mafia. Can you see why I was iffy on you right? However, after reading more of your posts and seeing your defense, I would like to place you as possible town. And here is the reason why for the rest of you: his reaction to tamburini, his reaction to my pushing, and the pushing of others, and his explaination of why he thought I was town/mafia. He sorta implied both in the same paragraph, so Ima assume he means I am fenced. I can elaborate on this later if necessary.
@Sweetfrost: I want to point out to you that in no way I was defending the vote on you. Please reread what I posted. I was curious as to why my initial vote on Yell0w, given with reason as to why I thought he was scum, was scummy when eden was just throwing random votes left and right, and not getting called scum for it. I'm trying to find who the mafia are, and Eden, well, not sure what Eden was doing except maybe get conversation going. I think he could have gone about it a better way, but yeah.
@Tamburini: I had asked you this-
On April 29 2014 12:59 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 12:52 mtamburini wrote:On April 29 2014 12:47 27ninjabunnies wrote:On April 29 2014 12:43 mtamburini wrote:On April 29 2014 12:35 mtamburini wrote:On April 29 2014 12:20 Yell0w wrote:
Just before I leave, just one question for rikory, what would have been a better response from me? What was the ideal response? Wow... Just wow... Bunnies I think we need to apply pressure back on YELLOW. How should I have responded? If your town you shouldnt care on how to appear more towny. This a classic rookie mafia mistake. ##VOTE: Yell0w I was reading that too, tamburini, however, as of now, yellow seems t be much off of the table. It could also be a rookie town mistake, wanting to know how it made him look scummy instead of townie. Fuck that shit no one is off the table today, I want this Yell0w person to die after everything thats happened. 1 Sarcasm 2 Asking how I can be more towny is not towny. These are 2 really good reasons to push harder on Yell0w. I liked bunnies initial push but wasnt ready to jump on board just yet, wanted Yell0w to talk some more and see what they had to say, and I did not like anything said so far. Okay, so let's discuss Yellow a bit more then. You have seen my reasoning on him so far.
What are yours? As in, the things he has said, what seems more scummy to you?
What exactly did you not like?
You stated (in the nested quote, I have bolded what I am focusing on), that you did not like anything Yell0w had said so far. That is what I wanted you to answer. What in his posts did you not like, and why? I wanted to see your thought process on this
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drav, who are your top suspects, and who have you cleared?
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Bunnies, after you've finished reading everything, what are your reads?
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On April 29 2014 23:29 Sweetfrost wrote:
I also checked ninjabunnies filter and it seems you try way to hard to act the role of a Helix worshipper. Trying hard to win people to his side and even defending me when I get random voted which I appriciate but it also makes me suspicous that he is actually trying to win my trust. As soon as Yell0w became a suspect he has been pushing his guiltiness hard.
I'm not sure what to make of this yet but I have a feeling that either Yell0w or ninjabunnies could be scum. But only one of them.
I want to also comment on this.
I stated in previous post I was not defending your vote, you can read that for yourself.
I don't see how I have been pushing guiltiness hard. I have claimed multiple times in this forum I pushed to get reads, and I got them. I even then went as far as changing my vote off of Yell0w. If I was pushing hard, don't you think my vote would still be on him?
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On April 30 2014 01:18 Amiko wrote:So right now, my suspicion is on Eden1892. Here’s the things that currently make me suspicious: 1) Seriousness of VotesEden has thrown around a few votes, I think he’s changed more than anyone else so far. That isn’t inherently scummy to me – voting for pressure is fine. However, it makes me confused why his initial reaction to ninjabunnies’ pressure on yell0w was to question ninjabunnies rather than yell0w. I was thinking about voting for yell0w to add to the pressure (incidentally, it seemed like tamburini may have been as well – I’m not sure, but he did vote for yell0w after ninjabunnies removed her vote to at least keep pressure on). Basically, my point here is this:Given Eden’s willingness to vote without too much basis (on sweetfrost as a lurker, on epishade for his comments on yell0w, on dfs as a lurker) I would have expected him to be more initially supportive of pressure on yell0w from ninjabunnies. 2) Eden’s interaction with ninjabunniesTo go a little deeper on Eden/ninjabunnies, Eden essentially asks ninjabunnies twice what she learned from the pressure on yell0w. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=13#255 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=14#272). Initially, he seems to see bunnies as genuine, but also says she didn’t really answer his question – that seems a little weird. When bunnies responds again, I feel like she didn’t fully answer his question (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21278572) – Eden had asked what she learned from the post, and she responded that bunnies avoided the question. In response, Eden names bunnies as his top town (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21278604) The point here is this:Eden asks ninjabunnies some questions regarding her pressure on yell0w. When ninjabunnies doesn’t fully respond, Eden calls her genuine (though he notes she didn't respond). When she doesn’t fully respond again, Eden calls ninjabunnies his top town. This feels weird because if I ask someone a question and they don’t respond I get interested. If I ask again and they don’t respond, I get suspicious. So, Eden's response to ninjabunnies felt off to me. -- I would especially like to know thoughts on these points from the players who just recently started posting.
I'm get the first time I didn't respond fully to eden's questioning on me as I read his post incorrectly.
However the second time, I did fully respond, I accidently put it as @Epishade instead of @Eden. So you might want to reread if I'm correct about which post you are tlaking about.
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Anyone still active? Anyone willing to give reads?
I want to know what others think.
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@Sqrt:
So after reading everything, these are my reads:
Town
Epishade
Yell0w
Amiko
Mafia
Possibly Eden
Mtamburini- I need more reads from him, and it is super weird how he is continuously pushing on Yell0w saying that Yell0w is grasping at things in order to seem not scummy. I feel tamburini is reading a lot into things that are not even there.
Fenced
Sqrt
Sweet
dfs- I like his reads when he finally expanded them, though at the beginning, he only gave one or two sentences to respond to my questioning of him until I pushed harder. So I'm keeping an eye on him.
Meat
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If you want me to expand on any of the reads above, let me know. I'll be on and off forums throughout the day, so it might take me a bit to respond.
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Ok guys, I'm back for a bit before I need to get to class. I'll give some thoughts on current situation.
Sqrt: I'm glad he sees me, Bunny, and Eden as town, but I'm not convinced that Yellow has defended himself well enough to be suspect town. Dfs brought this up, and I agree with him. I wouldn't mind hearing why Sqrt has reason to believe Yellow is town. I believe Yellow is town, but not enough to clear him as town yet, like Sqrt has. No real current read yet.
Sweetfrost: 5 minutes after Dfs brings up that Sqrt clears Yellow as town, Sweetfrost restates what Dfs says without adding anything new from his own opinion. He does give his opinion on Bunny though by saying that he thinks Bunny is acting too hard as town and thinks it is making her look like a Scum trying to get town support. I disagree with this as I feel that Bunny was trying to get information. He also mentions her defending him when he got random voted by Eden as a possible support for his idea that Bunny was trying to gather town support, but I disagree with this too, as she didn't really defend him. This is all that she said:
On April 29 2014 12:27 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 12:15 Eden1892 wrote:
Right, then, time to get to work.
##VOTE: Sweetfrost I mean, I'm all for reaction testing, but can someone explain to me why this is okay to do, and what I did apparently is scummy as fuck? Especially when I havent seen sweetfrost talk once?
I don't see that as defending him at all. Eden casted his vote on Sweetfrost only because he hasn't spoken yet because he was in a different timezone. The vote didn't really mean anything, but Sweetfrost seemed to think he was defended by Bunny from the vote, or at least wanted people to think that was what happened. He also agrees on lynching Yellow without much provocation. I'm leaning scum on Sweetfrost for now. If Yellow does get lynched and flips scum, Sweetfrost clears town for me.
Yellow: Yellow's confusing. I defended him earlier because I thought Bunny was pushing too hard for a joke, and now he seems to be a target again. I'm a little confused as to why, though. Do people still think he should be lynched for his jokes? I'm not against his lynch just yet, I would just like to get more reasoning on why Yellow's a suspect again.
mtamburini: Bunny's been on Tamburini's case so far and I'm not satisfied with his replies to Bunny. He says that he's ready to lead town at the beginning of the game and then he doesn't mention it again. Don't you have to actively post and gain town support to be leader, and not just declare it at the beginning of the game? Regardless, that may have been a joke as well, so I won't get too far into that. What gets me is what he says here to Yellow as to why he wants to lynch Yellow.
On April 29 2014 20:10 mtamburini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 15:19 27ninjabunnies wrote:On April 29 2014 15:11 Eden1892 wrote:
I'm not as sure on Yell0w as you guys are, but I'm not bothered by him being lynched.
@bunnies: Do you still think mtamburini is scummy? And if so, how do you feel about the fact that he's been pushing Yell0w harder than everyone else except for you? So here's my thing on tamburini. He comes out immediately and declares himself as town leader. Which gives me two scenerios: he is actually town and thinks he can actually lead this game, or he is mafia wanting to look townie. Hence why I put him on my scum list. So I was sorta working the Yell0w/Tamburini angle at the same time. Tamburini came out and defended himself by bringing up some ogi stuff from some epicmafia games. That's fine. Whatever. But no one read into this. Either people thought he is townie, or the thing on Yell0w was worth more reading into. Then, when I rescinded my vote off of Yell0w, for multiple reasons, Tamburini wanted to jump right back on him, for him asking how he should have responded to my question. I find this weird. Especially since Tamburini immediately voted. Hence why I asked tamburini to talk more on Yell0w for his reads. So as of now, im null on Tamburini until he answers my question, but I'm leaning more scummy for him. What question do you want asked, I gave my reasoning on why Yellow should be lynched today.. His sarcastic remarks (joking posts to some) are highly indicative of an experienced mafia not knowing what to say in that situation when caught in a contradiction as bunny pointed out. Next he asks someone how he shouldve responded to that to look more towny. As town people you dont care about acting towny because you are town, as mafia you care about acting towny so no one finds out your mafia.
I feel that, if you are town, but people think you are scum, you probably SHOULD care about acting townie. You don't want to get lynched as town because some people accused you of scum early on and it stuck. Yellow was wondering what a better response would have been, and I doubt that makes him look like scum at all. Tamburini really seems to want to lynch Yellow for reasons that I disagree with. He's my biggest scum lead right now.
Amiko: I think Amiko is town. Being new to mafia, as I'm sure many others here are, I feel that including that tip of having a secret message for Masons was pretty good and could only lead town in not having to lynch a Mason town if worse comes to worse. That's a great benefit for town so there isn't a miss lynch, and I don't feel that a mafia would have given out information like that, even so they could appear to be more townie by sharing that useful information. In a vet game, it probably wouldn't have mattered, but here it does.
Eden1882: I think Eden may be town, but Amiko brings up some points about Eden's interactions with Bunny that I would like to hear his response to.
Meat: Hasn't really said all that much other than for me not to interfere with Bunny's attacks. No read.
Dravernor: He has suspicions on me and Bunny for our interactions with each other, but more so on me for being defensive of Yellow early on. I've already explained my reasoning for doing so multiple times over, but I guess that hasn't persuaded him. In any case, I don't think he's scum. Neutral or slight town lead for me.
Bunny: Bunny's been the most active person in the thread so far and seems to be working for town. As I said, I misread her early on. Town for me.
mtamburini is my highest scumread right now. Bunny came up with him as an early scumread and I have to say I agree with it at this point.
I realize as I post this now, it took me so long to get all my thoughts in here that some of the information I planned to include has already been brought up. Primarily Sqrt's response about Yellow being town and Bunny's response to Sweetfrost about defending against his vote. But I'll leave this as is, took me about an hour to look through all the information I wanted to look through and type down my thoughts here.
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Netherlands6191 Posts
On April 30 2014 03:28 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Anyone still active? Anyone willing to give reads?
I want to know what others think.
I'm rereading the ENTIRE thread because I have been half asleep reading/at work reading all day. So will add some real input once I am done with that, because I think I might have misread some posts.
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EBWOP: Some things I wanted to restate as I'm reading through my post now:
When I saw I'm not against Yellow's lynch just yet, I really want to hear why other people are pushing to lynch him. I don't seem any good reason to lynch him at this point to clear that up.
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EBWOP typo.
said* not saw.
see* not see.
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EPT
