[N][M] Normal Ass Normal Game

On April 15 2014 18:00 OmniEulogy wrote:
yo man I'm all about that nova war random tangent video, how can you not enjoy this flavor. Also no, I'm not really concerned if Koshi is town right now. Town objective is not to find other townies it's to find scum. Finding townies is just a bi-product of catching the scum or do you spend all your time trying to identify town in mafia and I've been learning to do things backwards?

On April 15 2014 18:56 Skanjab1s wrote:
Hey guys, I'm the Vig. I've only got 3 days to play this game, so claiming now is the best option. I will use my 1 shot tonight on whoever i deem worthy of it. So far, that person is OO, for insulting my honor.

On April 15 2014 20:12 Djagulingu wrote:
Can everyone tell his town play and scum play?

On April 15 2014 20:58 Djagulingu wrote:

I actually AM doing something productive for town. Luring people into a sophisticated discussion, trying to make the game a high-post game instead of a low-post one that would be good for scumbags.

You can't say it didn't work, can you? Especially considering the fact that you jumped right in.

On April 15 2014 22:14 OneThousandWords wrote:


This is a silly line of reasoning. I think he is town for his claim. I don't think mafia come in at the start of the day and claim a role out of the blue that can be CC'd. The only scenario in which he could turn out to look mafia is indeed if he is VT, if he doesn't get RB'd and a vig shot goes through.

I find that scenario to be such an extreme outlier of a risk for mafia to take that it is a silly line of reasoning to go down at this point.

On April 15 2014 23:40 OmniEulogy wrote:
Also for what it's worth I like Skan's claim. Although I think it's fake and can be a detriment to town if he really is Vig or just VT scum has to deal with that during N1, and by itself I see it in a good light. I disagree with Djag in thinking that single action makes him scummy.

On April 16 2014 03:16 OmniEulogy wrote:


No, I blame him for playing it period.

On April 16 2014 16:20 thrawn2112 wrote:
No. He made a huge post that doesn't contribute anything. He didn't say a single thing that is relevant to the lynch. It's even worse than no scumreads, there are no reads of any kind. He argued his points without giving any indication that he was forming reads based off of the things he was arguing against.

On April 16 2014 16:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
and this



"don't mind me!"

On April 16 2014 18:37 Koshi wrote:
a guy has 10 minutes time to play the game. Reads thread. Quotes some posts he has ideas about and puts those ideas in thread.

On April 16 2014 19:49 thrawn2112 wrote:
you ask what's mderg's agenda. isn't the fact that he has no agenda pretty scummy? my whole point is that he has no agenda, that he's literally not trying to find mafia. he's make NO EFFORTS to find mafia, he doesn't even seem interested in that part of the game. idc about him lying or not, his 10 min statement doesn't tell me anything other than that he feels like he needs to apoligze for his lack of contributions.

On April 15 2014 18:56 Skanjab1s wrote:
Hey guys, I'm the Vig. I've only got 3 days to play this game, so claiming now is the best option. I will use my 1 shot tonight on whoever i deem worthy of it. So far, that person is OO, for insulting my honor.

On April 15 2014 20:15 Skanjab1s wrote:


No, I don't, he's a townie through and through. Do you think he's scum?

On April 16 2014 19:16 Skanjab1s wrote:

I agree with this, the entire post has nothing that's actually related to scumhunting in any way. Voting mderg.

On April 16 2014 19:20 Skanjab1s wrote:
Why are you so against his lynch Koshi?

You're throwing out other random names and saying 'hey, lynch this guy instead, dont kill mderg!" when mderg hasn't done anything that I can see that should make you so sure of his towniness.

On April 16 2014 20:06 Skanjab1s wrote:
Calm down sweetcheeks, I didn't mean it.

I'm totally fine with killing kush too, apart from the weird 'you two are town' thing, most of his questions just have very little point, and the answers to them wouldn't help him figure out the alignments of anyone, things like this:






These questions just seem to be there to make it look like he's scumhunting, but really, none of these things would actually help him get a better read on anybody. He also seems to be tunneling Koshi pretty hard, and directing all of his questions to koshi, I'm not sure what to make of that for now.

On April 16 2014 22:32 Skanjab1s wrote:


Well, this is a lovely OMGUS.
(1) I didn't give a reason for it, and I'm not going to, but that doesn't mean I don't have a reason for it.
(2) I have been scumhunting though, not just posting paragraphs complaining about 1-liners and discussing stuff that has no relevance to actually finding scum. I have given reads too. So that whole thing is just a blatant lie.
(3) I have brought in proofs though. I gave my reasons for thinking you are scum. Koshi on the other hand is hard-defending you when there is no reason why he should think you are that town.
(4) There is more than 1 scum. Me thinking that kush is scum also doesn't mean I don't care about the lynch, obviously.
(5) Read the questions please. The answers to those questions can not help him figure out the alignment of a person in any way. And 'the only way I can be sure is if im scum?" When the answer to those questions cannot be alignment indicative, how would me knowing this make me scum? That's just ridiculous.
You're reaching really hard with these points on me. Half of them are lies and the other half don't even make sense.

On April 16 2014 23:19 Skanjab1s wrote:

(1) I don't wanna.
(2) No, that's incorrect. I had given a read on you, omni and kush.
(3) In the post where I said that I agreed that your opening paragraph post was scummy, due to you not scumhunting but instead feigning contribution by making a huge post about irrelevant things.

I think I missed something, Omni, why is thrawn scum?

On April 17 2014 00:59 Skanjab1s wrote:


(1) Yes
(2) At the time of your post, I had given reads on omni, you, and kush, go back and read.
(3) Thats not the just of the points on you. Agreeing with someone's points and elaborating is 'proofs'.

Koshi: No, I'm not

On April 16 2014 19:16 Skanjab1s wrote:

I agree with this, the entire post has nothing that's actually related to scumhunting in any way. Voting mderg.

On April 17 2014 00:37 Koshi wrote:

Then you dont believe the claim. Are you dense?

"I believe that you claimed vig. But you could also be scum"

How???

On April 17 2014 01:45 Skanjab1s wrote:


Well, that's just silly. At the time of your one post you didn't have reads on anyone. That's like me calling everyone scummy because at a certain time, they didn't share reads on anyone.

On April 17 2014 04:39 Vivax wrote:
Current status of reads. Reasoning pending, but ask me about a specific one if you want me to explain it first:

Townies: Koshi, Djagu, Cava, thrawn, (~Kush fwiw)

Today's lynch candidates (by PoE and cause there is some stuff I don't like): FT, Omni, OTW, OO, mderg

Also HI GUYS =D . Rejoice that you got me and not that crazy grush fac-simile

On April 17 2014 04:57 ObviousOne wrote:
Kush giving me the town boner as of his return this second half.

Thank fuck we have a replacement, hello vivax please explain why I am on your POE or what you didn't like about me.

mderg's main, perhaps only, focus is a vig claim / scumminess of claiming a near-verifable role D1? That's... concerning, he's getting my vote for now. No reason to be pushing to lynch blue claims unless there's a cc. He's even sticking with it despite talking to others and defending his position which, with a tiny bit of critical thought should be an intractable one.

##vote: mderg

@FT: Koshi reads town to me only because he's all over the place and active. I'm more familiar with his "go forth and do work for me" town-meta that I think he uses in themed games but I'm not as aware of his regular town-game meta. My distant memory from back when Titanic 1 was a thing was that his scum game was pretty focused, but I'm bad with the memory thing sometimes so if you have something contradictory that would be useful today I'd like to see that.

On April 17 2014 05:39 Vivax wrote:
Mderg can you tell me why you think OTW is town?

On April 17 2014 05:36 ObviousOne wrote:

Any potential vigilante situation is self-solving. Either a shot is called and made, called a missed, not called and claimed later, or never called but the vigilante dies. Giving any amount of effort towards discussing how much you do or don't believe it and arguing about it or using it to defend someone before any of those events happen is ridiculous.

So to say it another way; having a read on a player solely for their power claim is ridiculous because we know that mafia can fake claim, we know that a power role who claims early can get their role blocked, they can be simply shot, and other corner cases where it leads into some kind of big play (which I would discount but in the interests of trying to be thorough I add it here).

So if he's actually blue then you pushing for his lynch is pointless endeavour for anyone thinking with a town mindset. With so few potential power roles in a normal game (something you may not be aware of). You can just accept for one day that he's got something useful to contribute outside of his lack of conversational contribution and focus on real lynch candidate possibilities instead until it can be established he's lying or he is caught in a sure-fire situation where he knows something that he shouldn't.

That is why I think your vote is wasted and you've given him the possibility of being town for his role but you refuse to accept what that means for the overarching scheme of the game when you pursue him as a potential lynch candidate.

On April 17 2014 05:04 FirmTofu wrote:
@OTW
Okay, so thrawn is repeating a lot of things previously stated in thread. This is a valid point. However, I don't see this as necessarily scummy. Town players repeat points too and this is a perfectly valid one to reiterate. You'll need better points to convince me thrawn is scum.

Also, your recent responses to Vivax and I are not helping your case.

On April 17 2014 06:20 Vivax wrote:
If you agree with his case on Cava why does he stay null for you when you ask me about the reads? Be honest, did you just go look for OTW's cases when I asked you?

On April 17 2014 21:45 OneThousandWords wrote:


I think what he did at lynch time was pretty scummy. There are some things I find odd about how that lynch went down:


First and foremost, Thrawn.

He originally started voting for Cavalinho for the reasons of PoE, not doing anything towny and being too formal. All reasons he was happy to push more and more come lynch time. + Show Spoiler + When I was around in the thread Thrawn had voted for Tofu with me based on reasons that looked pretty good, how he appeared to know more information than he should, how he scum read me based on nothing etc. but was seemingly thrown off of his scum read to a PoE read when the majority of people started building a lynch on Cavalinho (see initial votes).

Yet, all throughout the deadline time thrawn had been leaving both his options open:



This post implies that Tofu is not as strong as a scum read as his PoE read on Cavalinho but still wants to make it known that he has an option to switch if necessary, yet, out of some miraculous turn of events after thrawn had told both of them to post more stuff, very very shortly afterwards:




In the space of 2 minutes where not very much happened at all, where none of the people had posted anything worthy of a vote switch, thrawn decided that it was apt to switch to Tofu out of the blue. Here is what I think is the reason.



The votes reached 4-4 and there was going to be a no lynch, thrawn had already switched to Cav and gave his reasoning but suddenly Cav and Vivax added their votes to Tofu. This enabled Thrawn to jump onto Tofu very easily:


I think Thrawn saw that it was looking to be a Cav lynch and I think Cav is scum with Thrawn. Thrawn seeing the inevitable push on Cav decided it would be better to take credit and be on his scum partners wagon than to be off of it and look suspicious. When the turn of events happened and people started to vote Tofu then Thrawn found the opportunity to switch his vote onto Tofu and save his partner.

On April 18 2014 01:43 thrawn2112 wrote:
otw i'm not gonna respond to any more of that stuff unless cavalniho flips scum. if that happens then we can talk about it all you like. i'm pretty sure that if you don't just read my filter on its own, if you actually go read the stuff in the hours leading up to the lynch then my thought process should be pretty obvious.

it was a tense moment. i didn't even realize that a tie meant no lynch until right before the deadline. i had reasons to think both leading candidates were scum, and I had reasons to think both candidates were town. if you were to ask me my thoughts for each minute leading up to the lynch I probably would have given you a different answer, that's how crazy things were. on top of that there was vivax who started derailing the conversation by calling me mafia for the most retarted reasons so I I also i to devote some energy to dealing with that. AND he brought up some points that countered everything I was thinking, and I slowly began to see things his way.

so votes are at 4-4 which means no lynch. i have no fukn clue who to vote for and people on both sides of the fence are acting so damn confident about their read. but if I kept my vote on cavalinho that means we no lynch and I didn't want that. at that exact moment in time I could have listed tons of reasons why I thought both of them were town, and tons of reaons for the opposite. if i seemed to have swtiched back and forth easily, that's just proof of how conflicted I was. and the icing on the cake is that i didn't feel like either of them were trying very hard. neither of them were really being that townie before the deadline, but i didn't think it was likley that both were scum, so I was really confused. thjat's why i said things didn't feel right.

so really, there are tons of reasons why i did what I did. it's not so black and white as you're making it.

Now what are you suggesting is my mafia agenda?

Say cavlin is scum. votes are at 4-4, with my vote on cavalin. i switch to FT. Do you really think that scum would make such a risky play? Assuming that cavalinho and i are scum, it's obvious that I'm going to look super shitty fort swinging the lynch onto the townie. Hell, cavalinho hasn't even flipped and people are still making the association read. Do you really think that that's what I'd do if I was scum? There were more people in the thread who were ok with lynch FT than there were with lynching cavalina. I could have just left my vote on cavalin, and he probably would have been saved becasue town would either have no-lynched, or people would have moved onto FT to avoid the no lynch. The momentum was definitely moving towards a FT lynch over a no lynch, do you think that scum thrawn would be the one to risk his neck by beaing the first person to vote for the townie FT? That's just ridiculous. You're suggesting that I literally made the worst, and most obvious move a scum player ever could have made in that situation.

And if cavalinho is town then your case completely falls apart.

this has been a pretty honest post, I feel like I've really opened up and explained exactly how I felt about the lynch. if anyone still wants to have this ridiculous conversation then that's too bad, I'll only entertain it if cavalinho flips scum (which tbh i am sorta thinking he might and that's frustrating as fuck)

On April 18 2014 01:50 kushm4sta wrote:


CAV WHY YOU NO ANSWER
YOU KEEP SAYING YOU GAVE THE REASONS WHY FT OVER MDERG
I CANT FIND THEM

On April 17 2014 03:33 Cavalinho wrote:
Your whole reasoning for voting me is that I'm focusing on FT rather than mderg. Guess what? I think mderg is scummy too. I just wanted to bring FT's actions into the spotlight rather than mderg's because more people were focusing on mderg.

Also, I have a question for you kush. Why is it that you ask me a question, and when you don't receive an answer due to me not being anywhere near the thread for some time, you vote me and say that I'm just focusing on FT? That's scummy. It's like you were planning on voting me regardless of my answer.

On April 18 2014 02:16 OneThousandWords wrote:
It's ok Thrawn, I think everything will resolve itself tomorrow

Also, what has ObviousOne done all game? He has only pushed mderg AFAIK and that is the person who was attacking the claimed vig. I made the assumption that no sane scum would do that, so why has ObviousOne made the opposite conclusion and why is that pretty much his only contribution?

He practically refrains from being a part of the Cav/Tofu lynch.

On April 18 2014 22:24 kushm4sta wrote:
Mderg let's talk about skanjab. Always reminds me of skinjob which reminds me of handjob. Just saying.
But anyway I am thinking he could be town and just fake claiming vig to soak up an rb or something. What do you have to say about that possibility?

On April 17 2014 05:36 ObviousOne wrote:

Any potential vigilante situation is self-solving. Either a shot is called and made, called a missed, not called and claimed later, or never called but the vigilante dies. Giving any amount of effort towards discussing how much you do or don't believe it and arguing about it or using it to defend someone before any of those events happen is ridiculous.

So to say it another way; having a read on a player solely for their power claim is ridiculous because we know that mafia can fake claim, we know that a power role who claims early can get their role blocked, they can be simply shot, and other corner cases where it leads into some kind of big play (which I would discount but in the interests of trying to be thorough I add it here).

So if he's actually blue then you pushing for his lynch is pointless endeavour for anyone thinking with a town mindset. With so few potential power roles in a normal game (something you may not be aware of). You can just accept for one day that he's got something useful to contribute outside of his lack of conversational contribution and focus on real lynch candidate possibilities instead until it can be established he's lying or he is caught in a sure-fire situation where he knows something that he shouldn't.

That is why I think your vote is wasted and you've given him the possibility of being town for his role but you refuse to accept what that means for the overarching scheme of the game when you pursue him as a potential lynch candidate.

On April 21 2014 03:32 OneThousandWords wrote:

mderg
Mderg IMO is scummy. There isn't much stuff on his filter to go on and it seems to be like he has just been skating on through the game, mainly, he seems to have very little interaction to do with the day 1 lynch and his contribution to lynch actual scum (ObviousOne) does not exist. In fact, he voted Skanjab1s instead. His first post was contentless and summed up things that pretty much everyone had already said and then after quite some time of waiting and accusations being thrown around his second post does not really address much in the game at all and just consists of him answering randomq questions. He has weird pushes on Djagu (confirmed blue) for playing "the newbie card" but says it in a way in which it was not used (koshi? pointed this out) and then flits to trying to get the claimed vigilante lynched. In my mind I treated this guy as a confirmed vigilante, however, now that the actual vigilante has come out this puts all his accusations into incredibly suspicious territory. I've PoE'd the scum team to Skanjab1s and Mderg and I know this initially looks strange and I feel extremely aprehensive in doing so after making a connection theory with Thrawn and Cavalinho on day 1 but there is something off about the way Mder fought with Skanjab1s that just didn't seem natural. He pushes him for a long time of day 1 but then drops it altogether to lynch FirmTofu for reasons that are sheeped from other people. His interactions with ObviousOne are also very mediocre and no suspicion is raised about him. Then suddenly after having little to 0 participation in the day 1 lynch at night after everyone and their mothers starts calling ObviousOne scummy mderg says: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447645-normal-ass-normal-game?page=48#956. This on it's own is not that bad BUT there was the post the NEXT DAY that does not compare with this:

After saying that he agrees that ObviousOne is scum he says he has doubts (which he didn't mention in the night) and then quickly corrects that afterwards to say he has a scum read on ObviousOne (but still never votes for him over Skanjab1s).

I think Skanjab1s is truly busy and just told his team to lynch him and mderg took this to the next level and has been pushing him all game to look good for when he flips. His interactions with ObviousOne are strange and his read is not maintained through the game (in little space of time). I think mderg is scum.

On April 21 2014 07:22 OneThousandWords wrote:


Sorry yes you're right. The djagu thing was omni, I just had a lot of filters open at a time and your name was next to his. As for the rest, I posted on night 1 about ObviousOne and you quite clearly said "yes I think we all agree he is scum" but on day 2 you were showing that you didn't actually think that after all as your initial read was not so scummy until you rechecked the filter! So that does not add up at all!


You spend the ENTIRE day talking to skanjabs and you post 1 relevant post towards a FirmTofu/Cavalinho day lynch and it's just agreeing with other people's reasons to lynch FirmTofu and then you never return.

On April 23 2014 05:41 kushm4sta wrote:
MDERG MDERG MDERG MDERG

On April 22 2014 20:34 kushm4sta wrote:
how about the total lack of sucmhunting?
the complete focus on skanjab for bullshit reasons

On April 23 2014 06:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
mderg who do you have town reads on?

On April 23 2014 07:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
if mderg is scum then we lynch the fuck outta vivax

On April 23 2014 07:25 thrawn2112 wrote:

it does sorta look like he'sthrowing out reads according to thread sentiment

On April 23 2014 07:29 thrawn2112 wrote:


why aren't you participating in discussion?

On April 23 2014 07:35 thrawn2112 wrote:


that's not it. otw posted content. kush and i both made posts about the content that otw posted. otw responded. we responded back. you sit there doing nothing during all of that.

do you think that we should be townreading you? do you think you look townie?

On April 23 2014 07:05 OneThousandWords wrote:
I'm finally free!

A few things to note:

I'm glad vivax stepped up and talked rather than those few lines he angrily left yesterday, not sure why he even did that in the first place. I don't like how he's skipped over me on the basis that I town read him though, that seems like a strange thing to do for someone in the dark on alignments. He also focuses a lot on skanjab1s vigilante claim which I'm not sure is apt when his whole filter contains things that are weird. He did seemingly address that after though which was a weird order of things to do it.

Skanjab1s claim has been rattled to death and honestly it's not telling of an alignment. He keeps making it out to be something super town sided though and skipping over the glaringly obvious part of it enabling him to afk safely for a day as scum which honestly is a little strange. Other than that his read and vote on tofu AFTER the deadline is really very very fake. The first instinct I have after opening a thread is to catch up on everything I have missed post by post and if there's a deadline I check to see the alignment of the player . Now, I can overlook that as just forgetfulness, however, in order to post what he did at that time you would have to completely ignore EVERYTHING on the latest page at the time and EVERYTHING about the game which I don't see someone with a mindset to solve the game doing. It looked like he thought the deadline was coming and wanted to make sure his vote was on the person that got lynched and for a reason.

Kush has been very very strange this past day, like he's not interested what is going on, how many scum are left, who is left. I don't see this happening from a town mindset because when I'm in the game and trying to figure things out this stuff is always in the back of my mind! It struck me as very disingenuous. His day 1 play was somewhat towny but since then I haven't seen much in the same regard. He also was set on vivax being scum but then out of the blue started calling him town after posts that were in my eyes, questionable. He seems to be playing the game backwards.

Mderg hadn't really posted much. I don't like the fact that basically the only thing he did day 1 was to push a claimed vigilante and night 1 said he thought ObviousOne was scummy like all of us only to say he has towny posts the next day but correct himself not long after realising his mistake. Not long after I made a post saying Vivax was towny he did the exact same thing as me but then later on in the day said that he was coming around to the idea of me being scum which doesn't really add up at all as I was the one pushing us to re-analyse the game at a time when everyone was pretty much afking.

I'm going to stick with a skanjab1s and mderg scum team. It makes a lot of sense for scum to tell someone to push for their lynch if they have little time in the hopes they look good when the person dies. I am a little apprehensive though but people told me that mafia are good on this site so I wouldn't put it past them.

If I could come up with another scum team I think mderg would most definitely be in it too anyway so:

##vote mderg

On April 23 2014 08:00 OmniEulogy wrote:
OO never directly mentioned Vivax, only answered questions while trying to lynch FT or Thrawn.

Also "mderg is part of my filter already" from OO. mderg actually isn't mentioned in his filter before this. Why lie about something like that?



I've bolded it for you but this is his first mention of mderg and it's more to attack me while saying mderg is neutral and then brushes it off to continue attacking me. Pretty confident mderg is scum and Vivax to follow.

On April 23 2014 08:15 OmniEulogy wrote:


sorry sorry, I had hit all but it stuck with page 2 for some reason.

He pressure votes you and takes it off asap and says you have a very insightful post before that. my bad. but his reason to vote you is extremely weak and he never follows it up with anything else and it looks like he just forgot that he voted for you entirely.

On April 23 2014 08:23 Vivax wrote:
Mderg what do you think of my analysis on skanja?

Do you scumread kush or what else do you mean by this:

On April 23 2014 07:45 Vivax wrote:
Mderg I think the reasons skanja gave us for suspecting FT are legit, I would have suspected FT myself for the same reasons.
There's just this doubt nagging at the back of my head that he's pro scum and made up that mistake on purpose but for today I'm not lynching him cause I liked our conversation.

Also checking his games he never rolled scum in the 4 or 5 of them. FT so-hosted a game where skanja was town so there's that, confirmed truthful argument.

And neither might I be lynching Kush IF HE EXPLAINS WHY HE SUDDENLY TOWNREADS ME. Cause in my experience scumkush doesn't townread his main scumread out of the blue, he didn't in Dr Who, but I want to know if it's serious and has a reason, cause else I'll just assume it was bullshitting.



I townread you for other reasons, but now I'm not so sure if they're valid anymore cause there's you and mderg, and maybe kush left as possible scum.
That post was just a way of copying what kush did and see how thrawn reacts. Conclusion drawn: Tunneled as fuck, put on ignore.
The "angry lines" were me thinking it was deadline day already. Tired gaming.



Now that you're at this I would like you to tell me what was questionable about my posts, and have a chat about it with kush to see why you get to different conclusions.

On April 23 2014 08:40 kushm4sta wrote:
just kill mderg

On April 23 2014 08:41 mderg wrote:

why?