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On April 02 2014 10:00 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 09:58 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:55 Alakaslam wrote:On April 02 2014 09:51 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:45 Alakaslam wrote:On April 02 2014 09:41 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:38 Alakaslam wrote:On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:
[quote]
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you? Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ? I have answered every question directed at me so far, but I feel no need to divulge information that might jeopardize my efforts to trip up scum unless I don't have much choice I. The matter. Especially when it comes to the person whose my default top scum read. As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire? Ha! I have observed! You use am iPhone don't you? Probably a 4 or 4S that you updated to iOS7... Close, it's an ipad XD Hmmm... That would be Does iOS7 go on the pads? Didn't know that. Anyway what is your gameplan for attacking this problem of losing two town voices every lynch? In fact is anyone considering that angle? A scum one is lost as well, so It feels like a problem that evens itself out honestly. Basically I dont think it's a factor that supersedes questionable alignment or outright scumminess(which is probally how we should considering the order, by who we need to flip the most in terms of information and results.) No It is the only reason ordering matters. Think on why. Uscumbro? I legit dont know what your talking about, also were not lynching all the strong groups first regardless so it's a non issue. Oh and ignorance doesn't make me scum. Well what if we vote mayor who doesn't do that? All we have to do is pick a non town mayor. And true, is why I askz
Scum can choose any fuckin order they want if they think it's worth outing one of thier own, even if he puts himself on the bottom( thereby enabling a chance that he might not get lynched at all this game) I will gladly take that trade.
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On April 02 2014 10:05 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
gumshoe which players from the playerlist would you consider unreadable?
~rayn
Slam is pretty obscure, I find Palmar pretty hard to read which is why I want him to step up as much as he can at the point he says hes best.
Coag is a wild card and Holy is probably the best scum I know of. Thats about it for the players I know of.
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On April 02 2014 10:29 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 10:25 Holyflare wrote:
Regardless of the poofter read, mderg is just stating things and asking for explanation rather than pointing out and elaborating his own opinions and forming reads.
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire. It all fits! ~rayn
So your locking in this mderg guy for scum? Can you confirm?
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This is a few choice qoutes from Rayn's play in witchcraft 2, where he orchestrated a mislynch on me day 1.
Looking the playerlist you are the guy i can work with the best.
I can't read OO for shit.
I hope Cephiro does not do dumb stuff like he did in Hogwarts.
Lurk Sylencia = lynch, otherwise idk
Sn0dude played really well in Hogwarts, i except that from him here aswell.
gumshoe ....
thrawn i misread on Desert until he actually started making sense, hope he does that too here
Umasi was good in some game as town i think? Says nothing = lynch
Onegu is tricky, damn he was tricky in Hogwarts. A guy to read closely.
ET is town or scum at last N1, based purely on Hogwarts.
hzflank i can read.
Vanesco noob, no idea. contribute or die.
and yeah, that's it.
After second reading gumshoe's big post was really bad and could have been all said in 10 words. Apparently that was a fake post too..
I am also trying to be not pissed off with gumshoe but it's really hard..
Probably someone from gumshoe/Umasi/Onegu depending on what happens tomorrow. thrawn stared making sense.
##Vote: gumshoe
just because i do not like anything he has said this game.
bh no, i do not remember his play from Basterd. I remember he claimed on N1 but i don't even remember why.
After that he has been modkilled for inactivity or soht because i accidently outed him as blue (in a game i somehow thought everyone was blue) while he did pretty much nothing. 50% of my case on him is that i want him to actually say something uselful and 50% is that what he has said is either faked for no reason or useless contributions or something that makes no sense to me.
Pretty harsh on me in general, take a good look at that last qoute, notice how Rayn believes my meta works against me there? Next Compare all those lines to these ones that make up Rayn's current stance on me.
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something?
getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
~rayn
I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this.
gumshoe what's the point of all this?
On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second.
~rayn
This next bit is one exchange between us.
Show nested quote +Holy is probably the best scum I know of. Thats about it for the players I know of Show nested quote +So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game
That last quote here also has my meta working against me and in general theres an overall tone of disdain once again in Rayn's voice, just like in Witchcraft, another funny thing is that I actually lied in witchcraft as well to try and bait scum, just like I did this game. Rayn knows exactly what I'm capable of and how to exploit that and of course he hammers me for it in this game just like hes done before.
Witch
gumshoe's contributions in Basterd have a clear point, are transparent and every time they reach to a hard conclusion. None of those things happen in this game and half of his filter anyways is useless because it's about fake case that either serves no purpose if he is town or he just fucked up and is making stuff up if he is scum.
Cell
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Next up, look at this recent game where were both town for comparison.
gumshoe i am interested. Do you think Palmar is mafia?
see gumshoe here is my problem. I am a player who asks questions, obviously. When i ask questions, assuming i am not questioning something i do not understand, there are expected answers:
1) scummy type of answer, or townie type of answer, or both
2) answer i did not expect which leads to further investigation
Now i don't always expect people to understand why i do ask questions i do in the first place. That would defeat the purpose of my play in total. If you can tell what my question is going to achieve you know (as mafia) how you should be answering it. Right?
So, my question to you is:
I don't understand why do you assume Palmar should assume what i am thinking and why i ask what i do. How do you suggest town!Palmar should read me if he is not "allowed" to figure out my motives behind my posts? Or do you think it's reasonable to assume Palmar should have realized what i was after? Did you know what i expected town!gumshoe to answer when i asked you my question?
I think the confusing part here is that gumshoe assumes/says Palmar thought i was scummy for my question and therefore questioned me. Not that Palmar was trying to get a read on me.
gumshoe how do you ended up to this conclusion in the first place?
Anyways that smiley makes me see red every time i see it, except for when gumshoe does it. Just because gumshoe is so adorable.
I have been really really sure since i started telling him why i thought his case on Palmar was dumb and started explaining him what Palmar meant with his posts.
Take note of the last quote, he thinks I'm town here because of dumb stubborn play, whats different this game Rayn? Also the tone, while still inquisitive, is much lighter than that of the excerpts from the first two sets listed.
Scum like sure things, Rayn has had success beating me straight up before, he feels confident he can do it again. A good example of this kind of behaviour in scum is how Suki went after cav in cultured the same way she did in the first newbie game they played together. The prefer to tackle targets who they can beat, thats why from the get go Rayn has been spinning everything I say as scummy, watch how he twists what I say and do over and over again.
HE WANTS TO FUCKING LYNCH TOWNIES!! SERIOUSLY GUMSHOE????
Here he attacks me for defending "confirmed scum" geript, of course Geript is not 100 percent scum and Rayn admits as much himself later on here,
but that didnt stop him from using a shitty read to attack me via association.
Heres another
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. Show nested quote +So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
What I mean here is that I suspect hes scum, therefore why do I need to tell him anything that would worsen my odds of catching him. Of course he zeros in on the "you dont owe me anything" part because thats what his agenda calls for, he will tear apart all my statements and alter to them just to make me look bad.
Heres another example of Rayns twister skills.
gumshoe which players from the playerlist would you consider unreadable?
After I answer him honestly, Rayn comes back with this.
So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this:
Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise.
To adress the bolded first, he completley disregards cultured mafia, the game where Holy bussed his team and completley blind sided me/town, I had this much to say to Holy afterwards cant bilieve you massacred your team like that, dont listen to what anyone says (not that you would) that takes 3 testicles and no heart, wp sir. At the end of day I was willing to lynch every other person in the game (myself included probally) before you, and that sentiment carried through all the way to lylo. Hope we can play more games like this in the future ( :
Of course, Rayn pretends this game never happens because it doesn't fit his narrative, and thats what hes doing guys, hes crafting a narrative, telling us all a bedtime story so he can slit our throats and steal our shit while we sleep.
As for his point about me contradicting myself, first of all let me ask you, does inconsistency a scum make? No, motive and/or a lack of effort do and my actions suggest neither (I have contributed since games start and made suggestions that scum would pale at the mere thought of uttering). That said, hes twisting the truth here yet again.
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
I care what town thinks of me and I'm trying to prove my alignment through contribution, I do not however give a shit what my top scum read thinks and I will lie all day to him until he flips red or reasonably proves himself to be green. He twists this into me not caring about what town thinks as a whole, when in reality anyone who actually reads what I'm saying for themselves can pretty much tell that my words are directed at Rayn and Rayn alone.
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
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On April 02 2014 10:29 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 10:25 Holyflare wrote:
Regardless of the poofter read, mderg is just stating things and asking for explanation rather than pointing out and elaborating his own opinions and forming reads.
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire. It all fits! ~rayn
It all fits huh?
I attacked Steveling at the start to bait you, Mderg went in to defend Steveling against me.
I´m not Rayn... but Steveling really likes to watch champions league and I know it can be taxing to watch close and exciting games. So there´s probably not much to tell from this.
Why would my scum buddy come in to disagree with me? Wouldnt mderg bieng scum implicate Steveling, not me?
And why would I press him back?
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
How does any of this fit? Do you think me and mderg are scum together?
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On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"?
Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think?
I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean.
You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that.
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? .
Compare that to this.
HE WANTS TO FUCKING LYNCH TOWNIES!! SERIOUSLY GUMSHOE????
rofl
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
~rayn
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to.
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On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"?
First two cases are scum, third case is town
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On April 02 2014 12:51 Tehpoofter wrote:
@gumshoe So you baited rayn into reading you for lying? Is that what you're saying in one point in your case?
Im saying In a past game I played, I made a fake case to bait scum, not rayn specifically, rayn hammered me in that game for it, this game I did something similar, made up a case on steveling that I didnt really believe to see if hed want to gang up on the third person in his group. He didnt say anything damming, so I backed off, but hes coming after me now for that play, the same play that he knows I do as town he got me lynched for last time.
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On April 02 2014 12:50 Balla24 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"? Show nested quote +Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think? I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean. Show nested quote +You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that. Show nested quote +Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? . Compare that to this. Show nested quote +So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Show nested quote +Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
~rayn Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla. I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute. It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing.
I backed off of Rayn after the fake case cause his response was fine, but Rayn came back for me and I explained why I lied. He then started hammering me as if he knew I was scum, whereas I was never certain of his alignment, only reasonably suspicious. He has always been far more suspect of me than I of him, I was just trying to read the guy whose in my group. Instead of talking shit Balla, show me proof that I was certain of Rayn's guilt before he was certain of mine and that I was more vocal about it.
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Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included )  have openly attacked mderg.
Geript
I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw).
Tehpoofter
Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town
Holy
Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one.
Rayn
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits!
Gumshoe
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip.
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Holyflaire.
Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one.
this game
i really don't think it matters, we just lynch through the people not on suki and win x_x
The last quote is from Holy's scum game in cultured mafia. Scum want town atmosphere to be one of two things, lax, or utterly chaotic. Lax especially if they feel they're in a good position, which Holy definitely is considering his cell mates are relative unknowns. Scum holy likes to present easy options, lets him minimize his contribution to the game, I'm not impressed with him so far, so hes my pick for scum over mdern.
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On April 02 2014 13:15 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 13:00 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 12:50 Balla24 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote:Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending: On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"? Show nested quote +Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly?
Rayn watcha think? I used this to bait Rayn, but the fact that this exists means I thought out what his early lack of commitment might mean. Show nested quote +You and Rayn are firing off in every direction, trusting in your scum hunting skills to avail you I suppose, I on the other hand am pretty much zerod in on you because you are 50 percent scum XD so yeah, I can see why you might say that. Show nested quote +Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. Rayn pressed me into fighting him when I had nothing concrete to call him scum, I tried baiting him and my results were inconclusive so I back off until he pressed me into fighting with him and revealed his true self, also I clearly say repeatedly hes 50 50, therefore worthy of suspicion, but not 100 percent how does any of that reflect the mindset of someone completely set on scum Rayn from the start? . Compare that to this. Show nested quote +So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Show nested quote +Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
~rayn Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla. I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. On April 02 2014 12:36 gumshoe wrote:
Like, read the fucking thread before you post Balla.
I think another key thing is Rayn doesnt once include sheer probability as a factor in his suspicion of me (like I do constantly, similar to a drowning man clinging to a raft) he presents his scum reads as if their derived from sheer skill and analysis, because probability doesnt factor into Rayn's convictions, he knows who town is and his reads will just continue to build up solely because he wills them to. What are you on about? None of that has anything to do with the contradiction you are displaying. You are calling rayn scum for being confident about his scum read on you even though Steveling has yet to contribute. Yet you are going HAM on rayn, even though steveling has still yet to contribute. It has nothing to do with you attempting to bait rayn. What I want to know is, how can you call rayn scummy for that and say it's the "most damning bit of all" even though you are doing the exact same thing. I backed off of Rayn after the fake case cause his response was fine, but Rayn came back for me and I explained why I lied. He then started hammering me as if he knew I was scum, whereas I was never certain of his alignment, only reasonably suspicious. He has always been far more suspect of me than I of him, I was just trying to read the guy whose in my group. Instead of talking shit Balla, show me proof that I was certain of Rayn's guilt before he was certain of mine and that I was more vocal about it. Come on now, I'm not talking shit, I'm talking about what I'm seeing. The order of operations doesn't matter. Steveling has still done nothing, yet you are certain Rayn is mafia, and you call rayn scummy for being certain of you being mafia even though Steveling has done nothing. You display that confidence here: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote:
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end. Like, I'm not arguing that rayn does not twist stuff like crazy to be in his favor as mafia and make stuff up out of thin air, he does that, it's true. I'm arguing that you guys going after each other hard and with confidence is not a scumtell like you are trying to make it out to be for rayn (and brushing it off when you do the same thing). I understand the rest of your case, and while it's hard to follow it might be somewhat ok but that point isn't valid. Let's move on: what do you think of some other cells, specifically Cell 2 and Cell 5 are the ones i'm most interested in.
I am displaying confidence that he is mafia after this.
Here i present you our first......
Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!!
ezpz
My reasoning for him bieng scum is BORN from his lack of consideration of Steveling 0_0 the order of operations means fucking everything here. Also I even said I'm 90 percent sure after that huge case, I admit it's possible I'm wrong despite my high degree of certainty, whereas Rayn who hasnt put half the effort into going after me thinks I am 100 percent scum.
Like, its amazing how your trying to break my whole case by going after this one bit, and you cant even do that, is it hard being scum/dumb balla?
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On April 02 2014 13:20 Balla24 wrote:
@gumshoe well, independent of the # of people attacking him do you townread him or scumread him? Your quote there doesn't really indicate either way whereas the rest do.
I think hes town and I felt that was totally obvious 0_0
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Balla I actually apologize for being rude, even if you are scum the insults were uncalled for T_T I'll stop with that.
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It's just you think I havent considered steve is scum because I'm suspicious of how Rayn hasn't considered steve is scum, which is completely untrue, I am worried about steve, have said as much and I wanted to wait for him before beginning the earnest which hunt, but Rayn pushed me into fighting and showed me a side I've seen before, a scummy side / :
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On April 02 2014 13:26 getmoript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote:Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included ) have openly attacked mderg. Geript I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw). Tehpoofter Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town Holy Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one. Rayn I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits! Gumshoe Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum? Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip. First off that was Cav. Second, I can understand this line of thinking (50% of active think he's scum in a 33% scum game), but it's bad logic. OTTOMH I forget who is in what group but it's quite possible that everyone who hasn't liked mderg is town. Like I really don't want HF playing past day 1 but right now I'm really uncomfortable lynching into pod 2 because Banks is a little town but the other two are complete question marks.
I understand it's "shit logic" usually, but we have really never played with this high a ratio of scum to town, so I do feel it is a facor worth considering / : if pretty much half the people playing right now are scum, and half of town as a whole has attacked this guy who we know plays bad, dont you think thats pretty suspicious?
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On April 02 2014 13:31 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 13:26 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 13:20 Balla24 wrote:
@gumshoe well, independent of the # of people attacking him do you townread him or scumread him? Your quote there doesn't really indicate either way whereas the rest do. I think hes town and I felt that was totally obvious 0_0 Twas not (I mean, its obvious that you think he's town based on the # of people attacking him, but not otherwise), if you have previously reasoned it out please link/quote me, if not why do you think he's town? (Again, independent of the # of people attacking him and just based on his play)
Its almost purely because of the ratio of players, he is a meh player who is capable of playing very bad and too many people have jumped on him, I have also pointed out holy as an alternative scum in that group, what do you think of him?
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On April 02 2014 13:38 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 12:55 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 12:45 Tehpoofter wrote:On April 02 2014 12:16 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 12:01 Tehpoofter wrote:On April 02 2014 11:43 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 11:37 Tehpoofter wrote:On April 02 2014 11:30 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
I am also going to say this last time poofer and i try to be as clear as possible.
What you are doing is this:
You are refusing to comment on the part of the game where it is statistically easiest for you to find mafia if you are town (and therefore prove your townieness) and where it's the hardest for you to hide if you are mafia.
Can you see why it's scummy?
~rayn Well I disagree I see if I refused to give them ever that it would be scummy but thats fine I'm moving on and reading the slam/LSB/Balla cell now. If you have many people telling you what you are doing is wrong, shouldn't that tell you that you are probably wrong? You need to comment on your cell as soon as you get the chance to, and since you have been "taking notes on your cell" it should be easy for you to do so. Furthermore, why do you disagree with what rayn just said? I disagree that temporarily holding back your ideas is scummy but I do agree never telling is scummy. (Mainly I had this idea that if i got scum I'd just tunnel my own group and do nothing else and I wanted to avoid letting people do that as mafia and this sounded like a good way to do it so I'm probably just arguing cause I want my idea to be right) Two things: #1: Is holding back your ideas hindering scum's abilities to play properly or is there any reason that you are actually holding back your ideas? If not, then you are only hindering town's ability to read you, so post what you think of your cell. #2 Like rayn said, it is EASIEST to read your cell, since you have a 50% chance of being correct therefore it is also hardest to hide within as mafia, since the people within your cell have a higher shot to read you. So you need to post about these people. On April 02 2014 12:01 Tehpoofter wrote:But after reading your filter you do seem more town like when we played that Newbie game forever ago with posts like this one: On April 02 2014 04:50 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 04:47 mderg wrote:On April 02 2014 04:41 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 02 2014 04:33 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Sentinel what i want to know is do you want to lynch into your group or not and why.
Do you consider yourself unreadable?
~rayn I consider myself perfectly readable. I am town, thus I know that I am town.I consider myself pretty easy to read by others, if I had to guess what my town/scum features would be, it's that I get a lot more frustrated as town. In Noir I was a lot more logical and active than usual because I had 5 people to calm me down and streamline my behavior. With town I either get mad and stop caring (Nuclear Winter), or tunnel someone because I can't be arsed to do anything else (Roulette). I hate things like the bolded part, just doesn´t add anything. Everybody claims to be town. The analysis on yourself is interesting, I think it is very difficult to read peope who know their "town/scum features" Neither does your post. What exactly is the point of it? Are you calling sentinel scum because he is "claiming town"? I had highlighted that post by mderg in my normal read through and your comment I agree that his non conclusion on Sentinal is really weird like he wants to paint him as scum without actually using those words. Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town. I like that you seemed to on the same thought chain as me here. So atm in my cell I'm leaning HF=town and Mderg=scum. As far as your filter what do you read on slam Balla? Do you read him like rayn based off tone? You thought I was scum before reading my filter? Why? This makes no sense if you thought Slam was scum. Maybe i'm misreading the "but after reading your filter". I don't read Slam off of tone, I read him off of content. I'm 2/3 with him. When he posts mostly gibberish he is town when he posts somewhat related to the game he is mafia. That didn't work for me last game so I will be more careful, right now he is town but he's had a string of posts that are making me doubt that. Plus it's not that unreasonable for him to have been changing that meta on purpose. Which leads into LSB: he has talked a lot about setup and pushed a prplhz mafia angle for a little while. From what I've seen so far it is not totally unreasonable for him to be mafia. We will see what he does. Last thing to you poofter: you just directly contradicted what you have been preaching for the past couple of hours and asked me about someone in my cell even though from your PoV I shouldn't be commenting on people in my cell. What gives? I don't know you and rayn's alignment so I have to consider that you're attacking my plan because you're scum and know its a good idea or that you're town and my idea is shit. So The "after reading your filter" bit was me saying "well shit I read rayn as town and Balla now looks town maybe my idea was shit" so before you were neutral and I wanted you to comment on my idea after the read you both look town and so maybe my idea was bad. I have formally abandoned my plan because apparently it was bad so might as well use my town reads to figure out what they think and find out their views. You and rayn could be mafia and I'm misreading you both but since I've only played with a couple people in this game you and rayn being 2 of them and you were both town in the games I've played getting a read on you both as town and trusting your judgement seems like the best course of action. Basically I reassessed after reading your filter and am willing to try it you guys way. Ok then, so moving on: what are your thoughts on Holyflare and mderg? So I liked your point on mderg he seemed to make a really weird point that led me to believe he is scum and sentinal is town if thats the case. He wasn't willing to call sentinel scum off what he said but like wanted someone else to which is scummy. As for HF he has 2 posts that cause me worry. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 10:59 Holyflare wrote:On April 02 2014 10:56 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 10:32 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 10:31 getmoript wrote:
I'll talk more about slam later but I'm reevaluating that whole group. His kill me post was really town Slam IMO and you got your read on him from me. I don't like your gumshoe case. I don't hate it but I don't like it. I'll filter both after work. Of course you donät like it because you are prolly mafia. ~rayn God Rayn you are like super fucking infuriating when you don't listen to me. Like I don't really care what your alignment is right now but I'm not going to listen to your scum reads anymore. Like you half bother explaining them and then you always ignore me just like you did on Toad. The sad thing is I'm pretty sure Palmer's going to phone it in and the you and HF are going to drive town into the dirt. Like I'm not sure that you're scum but regardless of your alignment what you're doing is a real dick move and I don't appreciate it. So just to confirm with scum geript here. Plam, rayn, hf confirmed town now right? Then right after that. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 11:02 Holyflare wrote:On April 02 2014 11:00 Alakaslam wrote:On April 02 2014 10:59 Holyflare wrote:On April 02 2014 10:56 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 10:32 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 10:31 getmoript wrote:
I'll talk more about slam later but I'm reevaluating that whole group. His kill me post was really town Slam IMO and you got your read on him from me. I don't like your gumshoe case. I don't hate it but I don't like it. I'll filter both after work. Of course you donät like it because you are prolly mafia. ~rayn God Rayn you are like super fucking infuriating when you don't listen to me. Like I don't really care what your alignment is right now but I'm not going to listen to your scum reads anymore. Like you half bother explaining them and then you always ignore me just like you did on Toad. The sad thing is I'm pretty sure Palmer's going to phone it in and the you and HF are going to drive town into the dirt. Like I'm not sure that you're scum but regardless of your alignment what you're doing is a real dick move and I don't appreciate it. So just to confirm with scum geript here. Plam, rayn, hf confirmed town now right? Hate to say but yes I would confirm you three... Why confirm palmar? List of what he's done : 1. Said this day is shit and he wants to afk it 2. Agrees with rayn that we ashould be scum hunting today 3. Asks to be mayor repeatedly instead Is that towny to you slam? So to me he insinuates palmer is town cause of something geript said who he reads at scum then his very next post he makes it seem like palmer is not town at all. Now I think the 2nd post is probably more indicative of how HF feels because I can see the 1st one being more of a sarcastic off hand remark and more about geript than Palmer. However it is odd that back to back posts from him call Palmer two different alignments. HF also read my idea about the cell reads as stupid which is what rayn and balla both did and they seem town to me so I guess he should get town points for that. For me Mderg more scummy than HF.
Who are your scum reads outside of your cell?
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On April 02 2014 13:46 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 13:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 13:31 Balla24 wrote:On April 02 2014 13:26 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 13:20 Balla24 wrote:
@gumshoe well, independent of the # of people attacking him do you townread him or scumread him? Your quote there doesn't really indicate either way whereas the rest do. I think hes town and I felt that was totally obvious 0_0 Twas not (I mean, its obvious that you think he's town based on the # of people attacking him, but not otherwise), if you have previously reasoned it out please link/quote me, if not why do you think he's town? (Again, independent of the # of people attacking him and just based on his play) Its almost purely because of the ratio of players, he is a meh player who is capable of playing very bad and too many people have jumped on him, I have also pointed out holy as an alternative scum in that group, what do you think of him? For now Holy is fine with me. He hasn't done much yet, but he has attempted to bring new information to the table in the form of some meta comments about mderg which is good. While i'm not that much of a fan of early cases based solely on meta behavior like yours (vs rayn (this is different since you were possibly "baiting") and vs holy) and holy's, it still shows a willingness to go fetch new information and new information is always good. So I don't really think that your comments: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 13:19 gumshoe wrote:Holyflaire. Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one. this game i really don't think it matters, we just lynch through the people not on suki and win x_x The last quote is from Holy's scum game in cultured mafia. Scum want town atmosphere to be one of two things, lax, or utterly chaotic. Lax especially if they feel they're in a good position, which Holy definitely is considering his cell mates are relative unknowns. Scum holy likes to present easy options, lets him minimize his contribution to the game, I'm not impressed with him so far, so hes my pick for scum over mdern. here about holyflare are that interesting. I'd like to see how this read develops as the thread atmosphere evolves and Holy contributes more (which is why in general i'm not a fan of early cases based solely on meta).
What is your ideal evidence? What kind of case sways you? Wouldn't you agree that town are often just as likely to trip up as scum?
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On April 02 2014 13:58 Tehpoofter wrote:
@gumshoe I think your logic train on mderg being town because other people saying he is kinda weird. I mean looking at your list you are listed there but your quote doesn't seem to favor his alignment. The other people on the list I town read Balla, Rayn, and Geript. Geript the least so. HF is weird to me but hes my cellmate so thats kinda obvious. I disagree with your statement that this makes mderg auto town even if you use this 50% of players think this 1 guy is mafia thing so hes auto town your logic leaves out the fact that a lot of the time mafia tends to lurk and be inactive so there is more of a chance that the active players are mafia so I dislike this read and makes me think it might be you defending a teammate.
I was curios why he defended steveling, I am less curios about that now that rayn is most likely my adversary. Are you people really this blind? Or am I just talking to scum? This is a unique setup where every third person you talk to is red and swaths of people have gone out of their way to attack this guy, WHO WE KNOW is capable of suppar play.
As for the lurkers, they have straight up not started playing, that is fucking null and nothing else, they might be scum or town, seriusly doesn't matter and that argument of yours is awful. Point is, half the actives think mdern is scum for bieng mdern, and half the actives are scum, I'm sure there's townies on the wagon too but there are almost certainly scum who judging by the qoutes WANTED to be on him.
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EPT
