World Heavyweight Championship Mafia II

On March 26 2014 05:48 marvellosity wrote:

can't possibly imagine why you posted this.

however, I will now hold you to this and lynch you if you do not make 9 pages of filter d1.

On March 26 2014 08:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Definitely not if you do not have 9 pages of filter on D1.

On March 26 2014 08:11 thrawn2112 wrote:
witchcraft 2

On March 26 2014 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/441979-vengeful-mini-mafia?user=raynpelikoneet
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/430498-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia?user=raynpelikoneet
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/433955-witchcraft-mini-mafia-ii?user=raynpelikoneet
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/423071-tl-mafia-lxii-tl-noir?user=raynpelikoneet
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/432504-mafia?user=raynpelikoneet
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/423047-got-mafia-lords-and-liars?user=raynpelikoneet

6 last scumgames.

Why didn't you bother to check the database yourself?

On March 26 2014 08:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I sometimes claim town as town, sometimes i claim town as scum. Sometimes i don't as either alignment.

On March 26 2014 08:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I sometimes claim town as town, sometimes i claim town as scum. Sometimes i don't as either alignment.

On March 26 2014 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
gumshoe why Robik over anyone else?

On March 26 2014 08:31 marvellosity wrote:
I think I need to bait a multi-layered trap based on something that hasn't happened yet.

On March 26 2014 08:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Over-explained answer could be indicative of scumshoe. He tried to over-explain shit last game (geript's PYP) as mafia and it backpedalled quite hard. He also knows i am a tunnely guy and he also knows my questions have motive behind them so therefore he knows he must answer to me.

Joke is a joke, but gumshoe getting possibly scared as scum was worth a try.

On March 26 2014 08:41 gumshoe wrote:


Scum can be reasonable as well : P and this game is pretty stacked, mistakes this early on are not to be expected. I'm curious Palmer, what kind of reaction were you looking for out of Rayn, knowing farily well hed have an easy time answering your question as either alignment?

On March 26 2014 08:58 gumshoe wrote:


But it is likely that a response will come easily, all you do if Rayns scum is strengthen his position in thread after an easy question, and I dont bilieve you honestly couldnt come with your own explanation for why Rayn asked his question of me.

Therefore I find your question not only pointless, but harmful / :

On March 26 2014 09:02 gumshoe wrote:


Eh, my attention is on robick for virtually no reason, maybe were scum together, bam, easy / : took me 5 seconds, and obviously you weren't that stalwart in your suspicion because you conceded there was a point to the questionafter one response from Rayn. Maybe your just trying to kick start the thread, but I highly doubt you really put much stock in what youve said so far / :

On March 26 2014 09:11 gumshoe wrote:


I do not for a second think he could not come up with his own valid reasoning for your question twoards me and I dont see how he could imagine you in any world giving something up in response. As if when your scum you dont bother with reasons, whereas the opposite is true, your far more careful as red and he should know that.

The outcome of the question is inevitable, you look capable, he gives ground, it was unlikely to go any other way(and I dont see what other path he could have honestly imagined) and therefore it was pointless. Hes either fienting in an effort to kick start or hes scum trying to fit in. One thing for sure though, hes not bieng genuine atm.

On March 26 2014 09:24 gumshoe wrote:


1) Yes

2) Yes

Because the two are intwined, the question implied he had a difficult time understanding your inquiry, something hard to bilieve in of itself, and the acceptance was almost immediate, thereby showing his confusion was weak at best.

On March 26 2014 09:26 gumshoe wrote:


Trying to kick start the game, countless times, people have had meaningless conversation just to get things going. He may be doing that now, if you are Palmer wouldn't mind some confirmation / : Also I only ninja vote. Dems the breaks / :

On March 26 2014 09:30 gumshoe wrote:


I agree with you, a reason does exist, when the reason is some other than "Asking this question of rayn because I think hes scummy" I consider it not genuine and I'm forced to consider other reasonings other than the prefered default. As for why your not literally genuine, 2 reasons

1) I dont believe you couldnt come up with a reason for him asking me that question.

2) Going by the first bit. I dont understand why youd ask that question knowing how easy it is to answer.

3) Your quick acceptance indicated your confusion was meh, possibly non existant.

On March 26 2014 09:39 gumshoe wrote:
He found you scummy because of your question, he wasnt just trying to find out your intent. Point is, I dont see how he could have anticipated the intent you chose to reveal bieng scummy. Therefore the only likely outcome of the question is that you both come to an understanding.

On March 26 2014 09:40 gumshoe wrote:


Not necessarily ( : if you ask the question to kick start town, which you stated you were trying to do, then your town, albiet deceitful, so answer me, is that what you were doing?

On March 26 2014 09:43 marvellosity wrote:

Looks like you made a case on yourself and then voted someone else, Palmar. Tsk.

On March 26 2014 09:42 gumshoe wrote:


I asked first.

On March 26 2014 09:48 gumshoe wrote:


Because my history indicates that such line of questioning is effective against me, whereas such a question directed against you would only make you look stronger regardless of alignment. If hes town, asking that question does him little good. I dont think town palmer would find you scummy for your question, and if he did he wouldnt ask a question that improves your position if your scum 99 out of 100 times. Therefore he is not genuine.

On March 26 2014 09:59 gumshoe wrote:


Not until you answer definitively yes or no. That is the question, the only question I have of you.

On March 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:


Yeah sure, in case you were wondering about the trap card, I wanted to see how paranoid you were at the thought of a trap, which you weren't really, just sort of indolent towards the whole notion. I has no issues with you as of now.

On March 26 2014 10:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar must be the most trapped person in mafia.

On March 26 2014 12:39 IAmRobik wrote:

##vote Palmar

Explanation: Palmar is self-conscious mafia, so when he is writing this sentence, he feels the need to add the "or town" even though the sentence actually should end on "whether or not i am mafia" or it should read "whether i am mafia or town". It can't be both. Trust me on this one. I found our first mafia boys!

On March 26 2014 13:06 Holyflare wrote:
Ok, Palmar is 100% mafia for this small comment that nobody picked up on.








In no way shape or form does rayn "town claim" like Palmar says flat out. It's a statement that is alignment null. He could be town, he could be mafia. Who knows? Palmar knows, that's who.


##Vote Palmar

On March 26 2014 13:19 IAmRobik wrote:

I think you're missing gumshoe's point about this, or maybe I'm misunderstanding...either way -- MY THOUGHTS -- are that Palmar clarified that he asked the question of you to promote conversation. He then reiterated that it was just for the purpose of starting conversation...THEN he said that he ALSO did it because he thought Rayn was scummy. He just seems to be continuously contradicting himself. idk. I don't like you Palmar. PALMAR. I THINK YOU'RE SCUM.

On March 26 2014 17:56 Holyflare wrote:


you make the assumption that it's a town claim before he says it's a null claim and that assumption was scummy because it just said "town wins the belt" which is in fact null claiming in the first place

On March 26 2014 17:57 Holyflare wrote:
before he says it's a town claim*

On March 26 2014 18:05 Holyflare wrote:


um no.. a claim is "I am town", "I am vt"

a tell is "that claim means nothing"

rayn says "town wins this belt", it is not a claim and it is not a tell, you took it as a claim for a town

On March 26 2014 18:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
okay shower time. play nice kids.
also vote for thrawn and where did Palmar go, his appereance was really weak.

On March 26 2014 19:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:

When you are done, if you think i created a pile of shit tell me how it is different from the "pile of shit" you and gumshoe created?

On March 26 2014 19:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Where did i create a trap?

On March 26 2014 15:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Because i wanted to see other people's opinions on this and i caught mafia!thrawn.

On March 26 2014 19:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar what do you think gumshoe's alignment is and how sure you are of it?

On March 26 2014 20:35 marvellosity wrote:

Palmar can you just clarify this for me please?
In the blue you are remembering when he townclaimed or not, and the green is when you went back to check games?

On March 26 2014 22:05 marvellosity wrote:
I'd quite like to murder Palmar.

Who's in?

On March 26 2014 22:10 phagga wrote:

Why do you think gumshoe is town?

On March 26 2014 22:12 marvellosity wrote:
Au contraire, ma cherie, it's a brilliant idea.

On March 26 2014 22:32 marvellosity wrote:
I literally don't care what you want.

Now tell us about Holyflare, there's a good boy.

On March 26 2014 23:34 Holyflare wrote:
Wait what, incorrectly?

On March 27 2014 00:24 marvellosity wrote:
You need to hurry up and catch up so that you're aware you're sheeping my wagon even though you voted it first. Chop chop.

On March 27 2014 01:20 marvellosity wrote:
You not going to bother talking about Holyflare then?

On March 27 2014 01:30 marvellosity wrote:

So what you're saying is, you attempted to bring someone up but you can't actually back up what you started at all? Sounds pretty scummy to me.

Also, irrefutable proof that I have been paying attention to the thread:

On March 27 2014 01:35 marvellosity wrote:
Just to be clear: you refuse to talk about Holyflare?

On March 27 2014 01:54 marvellosity wrote:

So you're actually going to vote for someone who you haven't given a single reason to be mafia, in your only time before you go away and have no access to a PC for the rest of the Day phase?

On March 27 2014 01:57 marvellosity wrote:

no you don't. You really don't.

On March 27 2014 02:12 Holyflare wrote:
So words and votes are flying but i don't see anyone talkin about mafia.

Palmar and prpl explain your shit. Why is everyone still ignoring thrawn?

On March 27 2014 02:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So if i understand correctly Palmar and prplhz hate people not explaining their shit and then they refuse to explain their shit "to show how annoying it is". Am i correct?

Also note that i didn't explain my townread on Robik and that's the only thing i didn't explain, unless someone of course asked me to explain it.

On March 27 2014 02:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I think you voted for me after that conversation. How does the bolded part make sense?

On March 27 2014 02:55 gumshoe wrote:


Why am I town for calling you mafia but Marv is scum 0_o

On March 27 2014 03:00 Holyflare wrote:
The fuck are you saying tram? I turned on him when i proved he was a liar and then admitted it and then called rayn mafia for the remaining time and has ninja unvoted him while still calling him mafia. Why you not read thread?

On March 27 2014 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Here is the problem. I don't think your vote was a joke, or was it?
If your vote is not a joke and you were serious with your policy lynch reasoning, shouldn't you still be voting for me? I thought that's what policy lynches are about. Someone does something you find worth policy lynching and then it does not matter what anyone else does. Or was it "policy lynch until i find something else"?

On March 27 2014 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Okay, fair enough.

So what do you think about my case and Holyflare's case on thrawn?

On March 27 2014 03:22 Holyflare wrote:
No he fucking said he put a vote down on rayn based on the tone of rayns post straight away regardless of the content which
A) is tterrible because he voted without reading the content
B) is a flat out lie because he asked something based on the content of rayns post before his vote went down anyway

So he got caught out in a "lie" and rayn called him mafia for other stuff. Thrawn's reaction is that rayn didn't keep hounding him about being mafia so rayn must be mafia. Thrawn thinks rayn is mafia but ninja unvotes him in vote thread without saying anything about it.

Thrawn is mafia

On March 27 2014 03:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I don't know because i don't know what his push on you is.
But he looks quite normal town!marv to me so my guess would be yes.
Maybe we learn more when he tells us what his push is.

On March 27 2014 03:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Like this is the definition of thrawn's town play and everyone who has played against him knows this.
He always gets shot because he looks so town but also subdued enough for people to think he is blue.

On March 27 2014 04:43 prplhz wrote:
i'm the hero liquidia deserves but not the one it needs

On March 27 2014 04:55 prplhz wrote:
you cleared me in default suspicions because of a random exchange with rayn?

On March 27 2014 06:24 prplhz wrote:

Just think you're having a strange reaction to me pointing out you have the same wrong read every single game. You blame it on me and write nervous stuff that apparently doesn't mean anything and now you're super aggressive.

On March 27 2014 06:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
That's because every single game you decide to do shit andi have to guess if you are town or not.
Fucjk i really do hate playing with you because you are stubborn unhelpful asshote.

On March 27 2014 06:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Actually just fuck it.
See you in 24 hours or so.
Policy.

##unvote
##vote prplhz
I don't even give a fuck if he is mafia or not because if he is not he is still playing towards mafia win condition.
I am not going to post until one of us dies.

On March 27 2014 06:46 prplhz wrote:
oh come on rayn don't be like that. i'm sorry?

can someone defuse this situation?

On March 27 2014 15:33 thrawn2112 wrote:


is he still mafia?

On March 27 2014 15:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
so you are saying that marv is mafia because he's making a case on a confirmed person who doesnt know alignments, or a "townie"

so your case is that marv is mafia because he is "wrong?"

On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
Mainly Palmar is not playing the game at all. He has 6 pages of filter, but he's literally not playing. The big problem is that he is pretending to play. You'll find quotes littered from me across various games giving 3 scenarios for Palmar:
1) he tries hard and he is productive. He is town.
2) he blatantly doesn't give a shit and doesn't hide the fact he is not productive. He is town.
3) he looks like he's playing the game a bit but in reality is unproductive. He is mafia.
What we have this game is scenario 3. Take the start of the game. rayn did some random townclaim that literally is not worth mentioning, and is also not really the type of thing that Palmar gives a fuck about. But Palmar asks him about previous games, but then "remembers" that he has townclaimed as town before and didn't do so as mafia. It's dead content, he could have just thought for 2 seconds and remembered this instead of bringing something irrelevant to the thread.

On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
If you recall, I asked for a clarification from Palmar earlier about what he remembered and what he looked up, because I wanted to know if he went away and found things that contradicted his "theory", or he in fact already knew them. And by and large he already knew them.

On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar asked me a really standard, flat question about how I viewed Holyflare, to see if I had been reading the thread attentively. That's literally not how you ever read me, and anyone who knows me passingly knows that. I will produce good content in my own time (or not), and I do not need to be "quizzed" on reading comprehension of the thread. It's just an empty way of looking like he's involved and caring about what's going on. But he doesn't.

On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar offers to speak to Robik about Robik's read on him - look, Palmar cares! But when Robik tries to open a dialogue with Palmar, repeatedly, he's not responded to. Palmar doesn't care.

On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
I say he doesn't because it's quite clear. His reads are all empty one liners, hiding behind a facade of joviality but he's literally not trying to move the game on. Speaking of his read on me, look how weak and spineless it is. I start calling him scum, and we get

Fine, whatever. Kinda half-hearted but I guess any alignment can post this way. I basically continue because I'm pretty interested in *how* Palmar is going to omgus me (plus it's fun to antagonise Palmar a bit).
I push Palmar on his read on me:

I disagree with him, and say he doesn't, so:

So he votes me. The point of all this is that Palmar is not leading the way in any of this. He half-heartedly calls me mafia when I start saying he's mafia, and he literally only votes for me when I tell him to. Palmar as town, if he's playing seriously, tries to genuinely find out what I'm doing, or he'll just full-blown omgus me. None of this in-the-middle, in-between-omgus-because-marv-told-me-to nonsense.

On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
Regarding gumshoe
They had this thing at the beginning of the game. Kinda culminated in

Just as a brief recap into Palmar's usual modus operandi, he'll usually try to delve into someone's motives as much as he can, and when he's decided someone is mafia, they're gonna be mafia, he'll have some (a lot) of faith in his own read usually. Anyways so yeah, voting gumshoe. Shortly after in the conversation:

This bolded part (and also his general tone in his posts after he votes gumshoe, you can go check for yourselves) actually mostly seems to imply that gumshoe is in fact town, and Palmar is defending his stance against a town gumshoe. Not that gumshoe is mafia (supposedly) and twisting what Palmar is doing to a scummy narrative.[/Quote



Later on he decides:

Palmar has changed his opinion for no particular reason. It's weak, and it's weak reasoning, given what has come before.
Some other thing of note:

Town-Palmar almost never answers questions on alignment with a simple statement read like this. If he does so, it's in a jokey-trolly way, like "prplhz confirmed town hero" or "Holyflare is not my scumbuddy". Palmar is a massive proponent of always explaining why your read is what it is, but he neglects to do so until pushed.

On March 27 2014 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
tldr: Palmar doesn't care about finding mafia, even though he kinda tries to make it look like he's interested. He has no real reads on anyone even though he's given superficial reads which require no thought. He's inconsistent in a spineless way re:gumshoe. His attitude towards me has been pretty spineless because frankly he doesn't know how to deal with me, whereas if he were town he'd smack me down rather than practically have me make him vote me. The dude is mafia.

On March 27 2014 15:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
how do you think we're supposed to figure out your alignment? you can't just do this to become lynch-immune

On March 27 2014 17:16 Holyflare wrote:


so you checked your role pm and you're scum right?

On March 27 2014 17:13 phagga wrote:
Palmar - might be scum. I don't know what he is doing or what he hopes to achieve, but it doesn't really remind me of town Palmar, and I cannot see a townie motivation behind is behaviour

Here's ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=6#101 ) marv's first real post of the game and I do not like. Does marv really expect that gumshoe must be voting for palmar this early based on what gumshoe has said? This question seems a little stupid for marv.

On March 27 2014 18:12 phagga wrote:

You have been bickering with Marv and never tried to put your thoughts into the thread. You were useless over several pages, and that's not how you play as town.

Also I completely agree with marvs case on you.

On March 27 2014 18:24 Holyflare wrote:
the bolded part is absolutely true and this also classifies as palmar laying "a trap" (i.e not read role pm so anyone making case on me is actually mafia) is a trap. Which palmar disliked (whether joking or not) earlier on rayn. So do we policy/scum lynch him now?

On March 27 2014 18:54 marvellosity wrote:
my first does not imply it's anything to do with activity, it implies that palmar is capable of being townie and showing me he is townie.

why is this hard to comprehend?

On March 27 2014 19:11 phagga wrote:

But Robik wanted to talk to you! Ah yeah, wait, we already know the answer:



Well, if you had no time, how come that you posted 21 posts in the next 54 minutes in the thread after the below post?



You were clearly reading the thread and found time to post, but still you chose not to interact with robik.

On March 27 2014 19:12 Holyflare wrote:


so why is marv mafia for pointing out things you've done this game especially as you agree with like half of them?

also you didn't answer this:

so why is marv mafia for pointing out things you've done this game especially as you agree with like half of them?

On March 27 2014 19:22 marvellosity wrote:

Completely untrue.

Carry on though, more fuel for the fire :>

On March 27 2014 19:18 phagga wrote:

Can you explain us why you tell us that you have not read the role PM?

On March 27 2014 19:20 marvellosity wrote:
Also explained how you went after me is not how you would do it if you were town.

Ez pz.

On March 27 2014 19:31 Holyflare wrote:
hey palmar open your role pm

On March 27 2014 19:30 marvellosity wrote:

Or that you would omgus me properly rather than pussyfooting around it. And by this I meant, actually probably call me scum or stupid rather than making me get you to do it. Also already explained.

On March 27 2014 19:32 Holyflare wrote:


no?

On March 27 2014 19:32 phagga wrote:

But what do you expect us to do with this claim?

Seriously, Palmar, if the roles are reversed and I come out with this claim after being pushed as lynch, wouldn't you insta-vote me?

Why do you expect us to believe this claim? If we are to believe it, you are basically lynch-immune this day, and you know that that is stupid as fuck.

##vote: Palmar

On March 27 2014 19:36 marvellosity wrote:

You've never needed to be reasonable to call me scum or stupid before. What a terrible argument.

On March 27 2014 19:36 Holyflare wrote:

no you copy paste it and get yourself killed so we can lynch thrawn and end the game on day 1

On March 27 2014 19:45 Holyflare wrote:
well that's not what mine said, mine was like you are a doctor!

On March 27 2014 20:02 marvellosity wrote:
So squirmy, I love it

On March 27 2014 20:06 Holyflare wrote:


Nothing to do with marvs case and everything to do with you doing nothing and ending up with a list post saying everyone but me/gumshoe could be scum

So yeh you are useless but arguing that you aren't instead of finding scum..

On March 27 2014 20:13 Holyflare wrote:


You had like 6 pages of filter before marv posted that said absolutely nothing. You admit you have no idea how to read marv as scum but think he's scum now and your only reason is that he made a case on you when you hadn't read your pm which is a bull shit reason. You agreed with like half the points in his case too.

If you flip town i will not care because you are being useless anyway

On March 27 2014 20:13 Holyflare wrote:


You had like 6 pages of filter before marv posted that said absolutely nothing. You admit you have no idea how to read marv as scum but think he's scum now and your only reason is that he made a case on you when you hadn't read your pm which is a bull shit reason. You agreed with like half the points in his case too.

If you flip town i will not care because you are being useless anyway

On March 27 2014 20:27 marvellosity wrote:





Oops!

On March 27 2014 20:30 marvellosity wrote:
To reiterate, the gumshoe timeline:

1.Palmar calls gumshoe mafia
2.Palmar treats gumshoe as if he is town in responding to his posts (see case)
3.rayn/marv call gumshoe town
4.Palmar calls gumshoe town

On March 27 2014 20:34 marvellosity wrote:

Except you never called him town until much later, when other people had called him town.

You never simply said it of your own volition.

On March 27 2014 20:40 Holyflare wrote:


We get to see it before you read it then!

On April 14 2012 19:08 Blazinghand wrote:
blow me town

On March 28 2014 02:33 marvellosity wrote:
hmmm.

Straight?

On March 31 2014 08:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I disagree, it's only true if the playerlist is good like it was here. I tend to thrive in minis myself as either alignment. Just a matter of preference.