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On April 03 2014 06:40 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 06:30 Amiko wrote:
wait...
@kushm4sta:
I think you are cleared green, but I would like answers to the following if you are willing:
- You have a vote affecting power and a one-shot vig power?
- If you had one-shot vig power, did you consider shooting Alakaslam / someone else yesterday? Oh snap, didn't think of that, why do you call him cleared green when you caught up that notion though? It does make me feel less sure about his claim.
It makes me feel less sure but I also feel kind of dumb asking that question when the answer is obviously yes.
It feels odd that he could have both powers though, right?
I tend to believe he is town despite that oddness because his actions with gumshoe feel like independent confirmation.
Gumshoe claims a name, kushm4sta says no that's my name and shoots gumshoe.
I er... I really don't know why gumshoe did that. It seems to me that he could just fake his powers and use the same character name. Regardless, kush's response feels confirming because he calls gumshoe out on the name. Thus, I feel kushm4sta does have that character's name.
It is possible kush was converted n1. But, if that's the case you have to believe converted characters either retain their powers (which the more I think about it, the more it seems crazy to consider), or converted characters become 1-shot vigs (which is probably even more crazy)
Since the character seems like an obvious town name to me, I think kush is town.
Plus, it makes total sense to me as town to shoot someone fakeclaiming as you 
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This post is a little shorter/to the point than some others since I am going to read another game, but I will still make efforts to read & respond tonight.
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@Djodref - Regarding your post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=75#1498 on Toad:
There's basically two things.
Toad pushing Hopeless1der: I feel alright with seeing Toad as suspicious for not pushing a lynch on Hopeless1der, but I also felt like hopeless leaned scummy when I reread him the other day. So, I at least agree with one of Toad's reads (but to a lesser extent) which makes me less eager to lynch him.
Regarding him not playing: This is a little compelling. I feel better about lynching a likely 3p than a lurker on d1, but I feel it becomes riskier as the game progresses.
Currently I would prefer lynching hopeless to lynching toad but they both seem like good options to me right now. I want to see kita a little more (it looks like he is posting now) but I don't think kita would be my lynch today.
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@austinmcc: I will be around a little bit tonight but need to start reading another game, so I will be glad to chat with you! But expect some long pauses between posts.
Also-
On April 03 2014 11:28 austinmcc wrote:
I think he's misrepresenting some things, but arguing consistently, and if he was mafia trying to get a kita mislynch, he SHOULD be throwing in that rayn wanted kita dead and kita was a big factor in lynching rayn. Not always, and that bit assumes that kita would be town and this wouldn't be rando-bus in a partial/wholly conversion game. But I think it's a legit point. The manner in which he's pushing kita does not align with how, in my head, a mafia player would be pushing Kita.
This point was pretty compelling to me.
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On April 03 2014 12:08 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Pretty sure toad is modconfirmed town. There'd be nothing to discuss after the game if he was just scum lying.
For the record I don't think this is correct. At least, I have a video mafia game where a mafia player said he realized someone was town due to out of game information and couldn't say why, people basically the mafia player after that. It led to some discussion after the game. So, to me Toad can be mafia just as easily.
Either way, I think we should talk about it after the game.
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On April 03 2014 12:38 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 12:20 Amiko wrote:
@austinmcc: I will be around a little bit tonight but need to start reading another game, so I will be glad to chat with you! But expect some long pauses between posts. This point was pretty compelling to me. If this game were a zoo, and every player in the game were an animal (and the zoo had these specific animals):
Who would be a tiger?
Who would be a flamingo, or fake flamingo?
Who would be a monkey, and please specify whether a monkey species that flings feces or no?
(This is actually a real set of questions)
[/QUOTE]
I'll answer you as best I can, but I have to be a little silly with these questions.
Tiger
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ha9gth1.png) The noble tiger. It is fearless and strong, a ruthless predator. I think kitaman27 is a tiger, though perhaps he would not be confined to a zoo. Kita appears to confidently defend himself while pushing reads, and I feel he contributed to our first blood.
Flamingo
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QGuqP5L.jpg) (It's supposed to be a flamingo dragon) The pink flamingo. Something about it seems awkward and difficult to understand. But undeniably it's bright colors draws attention. Alakaslam is the flamingo. He stands out due to his unusual claim d1 and his odd playstyle. It's difficult to determine his motives. I guess we haven't focused him too much d1, but I still think the comparison is pretty good.
Monkey
+ Show Spoiler +
I can't think of a particularly appropriate answer and monkey pictures seem overused...
I guess I could argue that Slam is a poop-flinger because he spammed somewhat, but I don't feel like it really detracted from the conversation all that much.
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EBWOP: I tried to fix the quote but now I realize the original was weird - for filter context, I'm replying to austin
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@austinmcc
I don't know if these questions will be meaningful but I'll ask you to see where it goes-
Who would be a:
a) Hippo?
b) Panda?
(also if you want to be a flamingo as bird god I can accept that)
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@austinmcc re: tigerKita in the zoo
I didn't mean much by the comment except to express he is kinda scary.
But! I can offer a post-hoc thematically appropriate explanation, which I do think is fair:
I feel like I would expect Kita to be more on the defensive d2 given rayn's certain scum read followed by a town flip. In other words, kita should be feeling high pressure. But I don't think the pressure on kita has been all that strong (with some exceptions... JJD put some pressure earlier on him regarding the nuke, kita's had to explain some reads, you are following up with some now... but it still doesn't feel like he is in much danger to me right now).
In other words, maybe kita should be constrained by the thread sentiment, but it doesn't seem like he is.
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On April 03 2014 14:46 austinmcc wrote:
Again, completely asleep, but random thought.
If we have someone that can make more than nukes, and that person is town, I think you should not make KP. Anything that's anti-conversion or checky is good. One other option, if we've got someone that can make stuff, is some kind of alarm system. Something you or another person could place on folks at night, and it triggers if that player ever changes factions. Might take some discussion with hosts to balance, but something like that let's us identify people that get converted and WHEN it happens, which is particularly useful for seeing if they have any strategic read changes after swapping factions (would have to wait like 24-36 hours before revealing that someone had triggered an alarm, and then parse through what they'd posted earlier in the day).
I don't know how item creation works but if you can do something like that, I think I agree it would be better than making KP.
I also had an interesting thought which I am emailing to myself regarding new item announcements on day 3. If you are town, do me a favor and remind me to post that idea during n2 since I don't wanna discuss it until then. I'll probably remember but I'm tired so maybe not.
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It's still morning so hard for me to post, will be back in thread before vote deadline. I'll try really hard to get back with time to talk because I don't feel Vivax is the best lynch.
I don't feel persuaded by the first part of kita's case (settling on slam). I know when I reread some of his d1 comments I felt like they were things I thought would be good to pursue. The nuke comment, I don't know. It seemed consistent to me (he still wants to kill slam).
I do agree his vote stealer comment doesn't make sense to me, though
Right now my vote preference is hopeless1der. I will read vivax's defense more when I get back.
If I still think hopeless is the best lynch I will try to convince when I get back
@hopeless1der If you are in thread please comment on kita's case so I have more of you to read
##vote: hopeless1der
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sry didnt bold
##vote: hopeless1der
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still workposting so short
@hope I was talking about kita's case on vivax,
You voted vivax but I want comments- do you agree with everything kita said? comments on other people's comments on kita's case? etc
Also @all hope's comment here feels really bad to me. The first half of my post (which he omitted, so he must have read) is talking about kita's case on Vivax, it should be obvious that's the case I am referring to
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I’ll read now and comment since I’m in thread and we have about an hour until lynch.
Some quick fire comments while I read more closely:
@Hopeless1der:
Could you comment on this post by Vivax, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=86#1707? I like it quite a bit
Re: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=87#1733
Is there a reason to hold the role name? Or to not reveal the ID of B?
Also what do you mean
“A targetted B”
“I do not actually know who A is or who A targetted.”
@anyone
How much did hopeless focus on Vivax today (as a modified watcher)? I haven't filter dived yet, I can in a few mins, if you have opinions on this let me know. If he is a modified town watcher I feel he should be attentive to Vivax today as someone he suspects
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I think I understand the claimed roles pretty well.
However, I admit I feel pretty lost right now.
I don't have a scumread on kita, but maybe I should since he's made two cases and I didn't feel super on board with either. (Though it contributed to my scumfeels on rayn d1).
I... don't understand why Toad nameclaimed, but a quick read of his character feels like it maybe fits his claimed untargetable/saved/novote powers... I don't know for sure.
I don't think I want to vote hopeless1der
@djo: I read toad's claim as being vivax's mom, not dad.
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@austin: I only have wiki reads to go off of, but they said that mickey helped the doctor and jackie made good with him, so if we believe the names I could imagine they are town roles.
I don't think there's time to do it properly tonight, but let's revisit mass claiming tomorrow.
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Random role speculation tied to Jackie Tyler / Mickey:
From wiki skimming apparently Mickey directs a missile to kill some aliens at one point. So, I wonder if maybe that role is tied to the nukes?
also you probably know the answer already but I saw it in thread before
On April 04 2014 05:16 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Is it implying that vivax and rose targetted the same person?
yes
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OK. I was/am floundering but here’s how I am thinking-
If hopeless’ claim can be believed, I would expect he would think the following:
1) Rose is town, but he doesn’t know who rose is
So not too helpful
2) He knows Vivax visited someone.
Hopeless does quote vivax a lot. I don’t know though, I feel like he could have dropped some hints that he had information on vivax. Like, here:
On April 03 2014 10:20 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 10:15 kitaman27 wrote:
Last thing for tonight....what's Vivax's alignment hopeless? I'm biased...I havent been reading him critically because he's been a pain in my ass in recent memory. If you want me to OMGUS him, I can do that but I dont think it'd be productive.
It does make this comment a little better, I think
On April 04 2014 04:25 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 04:24 Djodref wrote:On April 04 2014 04:17 austinmcc wrote:On April 04 2014 04:12 Djodref wrote:
I agree with austin, we shouldn't lynch vivax. His reaction to gumshoe claim looked indeed very townie.
I'd like to add that he kind of offered kush a way out by enticing to claim that his power was 1-shot. He cares about kush being converted or not in the future.
Also I'm not convinced by kita case, the same way I was not convinced by his case on rayn yesterday.
I believe Vivax is town, don't lynch a townie please ! What bits of the reaction look very townie to you? HAHA THIS IS THE AGREEING WITH AUSTIN TEST. DO YOU PASS? This one is my favorite. It's just after Vivax realized the claim was fake. It's very spontaneous and I don't imagine scum write something like this at a moment like that. As scum, I think it was a WTF moment, not a LOL moment. On April 03 2014 04:33 Vivax wrote:
Lol gumshoe you're so fucked Also, as I said in my post, Vivax was trying to offer kush a way-out. On April 03 2014 05:03 Vivax wrote:
Fuck's sake. Kush, is it a 1-shot-ability? On April 03 2014 05:06 Vivax wrote:
Kush u genius say it's one-shot -.- Vivax cares, Vivax is likely to be town. Alternatively Vivax wants to know if he should convert Kush?
I think I believe hopeless’ claim more than toads. Maybe it’s because we only have part of toad’s, I’m not sure.
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##unvote: (hopeless1der)
##vote: toadesstern
Currently I am between toad and kita, voting toad at least right now.
Kita's posted 2 cases I don't like too much, but I don't have a scumfeel on him, I like his explanations as he moves through reads and thread. Toad feels harder to follow at least.
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@kita
hopeless claims he watches the target of mystery player (role named town).
mystery player (role named town) and vivax target the same person
when I write it like this I feel more suspicious of vivax :s
If he had a night visit he would presumedly have some information... I feel like he could be a converter.
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(I still like my townread on vivax though so I'm not willing to switch but I don't know)
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On April 04 2014 06:03 Xatalos wrote:
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ugh.
I'm a little demoralized.
I agree with Austin, I think we should get reads out pre-conversions.
@austinmcc-
I know it's lame to move away from thread now, but my plan was to stay in thread until lynch then give what time I could to the Catastrophe game. But, you mentioned in the last few pages you wanted to talk more flippantly and less constructed with me, and I can try to do that tonight (~5hrs).
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EPT
