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Maybe you understood this from my post, but what I'm saying is that after hopeless calls slam town for jokey reasons (not reading the original post) he says
On March 30 2014 06:29 Hopeless1der wrote:
slam i called you town right afterwards and didnt vote you to begin with
big whoop, wanna fight about it?
so I think it is fine to question whether the prior post was a joke because he was referring to it again.
I don't think this conversation is too good but we can talk about it more if you want, I will stick around for about another hour so I can needle another game :3
@raynpelikoneet: What do you think of Toad's comments on hopeless' posts here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=18#347 ? (I thought you commented on them but then I couldn't find them in the thread)
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On March 30 2014 16:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I don't actually have a vote. Or rather I have one but it doesn't count. I still have to vote though.
@Toadesstern: Do you have some power in addition to your null-vote? I am fine with you not saying what the power is right now.
@Toadesstern: Since your post mentions a power, let me ask what do you think of raynpelikoneet's suggestion of massclaiming?
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On March 31 2014 05:49 Tehpoofter wrote:
MY vote on Slam or my Vote on rayn? Cause unless I'm derp the post you linked is you talking about my vote on rayn.
Meant rayn. Sorry, I seem to swap names in forum mafia sometimes.
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@raynpelikoneet
On March 31 2014 05:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't know what the reasoning behind the comments are because Toad does not explain it.
I agree with you - I feel like Toad does not explain his rationale. Even if the read is coming from Foolishness, we don't get any explanation as to why they developed the read they made.
And now, although you agree that Toad doesn't explain, you seem willing to agree anyway-
On March 30 2014 15:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Not only that but if you are ever to flip town in this game i want to lynch Hopeless. Not because i necessarily trust your read but because i trust Foolishness' read. *sigh*
On March 30 2014 16:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Probably town if Hopeless is mafia. I trust Foolishness the most atm. ##unvote
##vote Hopeless1der
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@raynpelikoneet
On March 30 2014 16:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 16:18 thrawn2112 wrote:On March 30 2014 16:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 30 2014 16:15 thrawn2112 wrote:
no i think kita looks pretty town right now and you saying that it's impossible to tell is absurd why does he look town? no rayn you don't get to turn this on me. I asked the question about his alignment first, and you completely avoided saying anything at all about his play. so answer the question I did answer it. He says stuff that's okay lately but he could say that same stuff as mafia aswell. So i can't tell if he is town or mafia. If he is right on his Hopeless case (which sounds fine) he is probably town because i don't think he would be bussing. I said this all already.
Maybe I'm confused... whose case are you referring here?
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On March 31 2014 06:04 Tehpoofter wrote:
This is also if slam was doing this as VT would be a horrible waste of a day.
@tehpoofter: What do you think the chances are that Alakaslam is Survivor vs. Mafia vs. VT?
Right now I'd guess, like, 70% survivor or traitor / 30% mafia / 0% vt. I guess there's also a chance he is some other 3rd party role.
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@raynpelikoneet - following up on case on hopeless
On March 31 2014 06:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2014 06:05 Amiko wrote:@raynpelikoneetOn March 30 2014 16:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 30 2014 16:18 thrawn2112 wrote:On March 30 2014 16:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 30 2014 16:15 thrawn2112 wrote:
no i think kita looks pretty town right now and you saying that it's impossible to tell is absurd why does he look town? no rayn you don't get to turn this on me. I asked the question about his alignment first, and you completely avoided saying anything at all about his play. so answer the question I did answer it. He says stuff that's okay lately but he could say that same stuff as mafia aswell. So i can't tell if he is town or mafia. If he is right on his Hopeless case (which sounds fine) he is probably town because i don't think he would be bussing. I said this all already. Maybe I'm confused... whose case are you referring here? kitaman's case.
Are you referring to this post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=11#215
I guess I could construe that as a case against hopeless, but he votes for thrawn right afterward.
Or are you just talking about this comment as a case???
On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote:
Hopeless with his "do i need to go through the motions of totes serious voting to get a response?" conveys a kind of "look at me doing someone" without actually coming to a conclusion other than that I'm useless
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@Hopeless1der
On March 31 2014 06:19 Hopeless1der wrote:cool, you guys can face rayn's ire when i flip town.
On March 31 2014 02:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hopeless1der - probably scum
I think we will be ok.
@anyone any thoughts on Djodref? I have trouble reading people who townread me, but his early posts felt pretty town to me.
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It's difficult for me to post in the mornings so I apologize for the brevity of this post. But, this is what I was interested in at the end of the day yesterday and it involves raynpelikoneet / kitaman27 who seem to be potential wagons for this afternoon.
raynpelikoneet voted on Hopeless1ider earlier in the game. In response to a question from thrawn, raynpelikoneet seems to suggest kitaman27's case on hopeless1ider sounds fine.
I think there are only two posts from kitaman27 that even address hopeless. One barely mentions him (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=18#359) and I do not think it is a case. The other is just a series of questions (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=11#215).
I'd like to ask rayn questions and go back and forth but I am out for a few hours, so in summary I currently think rayn justified his vote on hopeless1ider based on a non-existent case by kitaman27. (he also justified it based on foolishness' read but I can't use that for anything)
I will come back to thread in about 3 hours and read the more recent developments, I haven't given the recent posts fair attention yet and can't until then.
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@rayn respond to my concerns please re: kitaman case
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if you did already sorry hard to read on phone
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I’m back in the thread and I am mostly caught up, I skimmed a little.
I'll give a little more below but to summarize thoughts right now:
I don’t feel all that convinced by kitaman27’s case on rayn. But I really dislike rayn’s 100% scumread on kitaman27 following the case, and dislike that rayn seems to promote gumshoe’s scumminess and downgrade Alakaslam’s scumminess for no clear reason.
Currently my vote preference is rayn (feels scum), slam (scum/3p), or gumshoe (lurker).
I do not know if rayn is checked out of the thread for real so I will question him below. I'm voting him now, but I am may move back to Slam. I don't like his answers to my questions.
I think gumshoe and alakaslam are “safer” lynches for today. But, if we are going for a 'safe' lynch Alakaslam seems safer, so he'd be my preference over gumshoe. Only potential read I got from gumshoe is that he is maybe hinting at a power role, but he could just as easily be a VT that's roleplaying.
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Regarding kitaman27’s case on raynpelikoneet:
kita raises a few points I want to address:
(1) rayn doesn’t follow through on kitaman: I believe rayn likely did not do the research or read your prior game because I think he could have used it to support a town or scum read on you.
(2) rayn’s vote on hopeless seems bad : I pretty much agree with this. I don’t feel rayn gave an adequate reason for this. I may be tunneling a little because rayn’s comment on kitaman27’s ‘case’ on hope1ess still feels unexplained when it should be easy to explain.
(3) kita sees rayn’s mass claim policy as towny: I feel rayn has probably played enough that he knows how to push an agenda, but I do not feel he pushed the idea in a meaningful way.
rayn’s read on gumshoe
On April 01 2014 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Weak scum:
gumshoe - hasn't said anything
Kill with fire:
kitaman27
Alakaslam
On April 01 2014 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay i really just fuck off now. this is getting so fucking terrible.
[red]kitaman
gumshoe
Vivax
mafia in there. not that anyone will listen.
town lost gg.
It seems to me that rayn reads gumshoe as more scummy and Alakaslam as less scummy but I do not really get his reasons.
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##Vote: raynpelikoneet
@raynpelikoneet: To get me off this wagon (1) adequately explain what "case" kita raised on hopeless and (2) adequately explain how gumshoe seemed to become more scummy and alakaslam became less scummy. You might also have to (3) vote alakaslam or it won't matter anyway.
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Gumshoe vs. Slam
For people in thread now, why pick gumshoe over slam?
Maybe I'm biased because he picked me ~~~ but it seems to me that Alakaslam is not town, maybe scum, whereas gumshoe is just maybe scum.
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On April 01 2014 03:49 kitaman27 wrote:
Would anyone consider traitor to fall under the category of changing alignment? I wouldn't really. Traitors generally are always mafia, its just that they can communicate if identified.
It seems unlikely that mafia would have both a town recruiting role and a traitor role in the same game. I suppose a third party traitor that joins the mafia team is a possibility, but I've never seem something like that before.
I do not think traitors are alignment changing, and given the Dr. Who lore as I understand it (cybermen turn other people into cybermen somehow) I feel pretty strongly that mechanic is in the game.
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On April 01 2014 04:29 Djodref wrote:
I also prefer slam over gumshoe, but I'm ok to make concessions with austin, kush and ? so we can have enough people.to avoid a rayn/kita lynch
@austinmcc & @kushm4sta can you explain why you would prefer to vote off gumshoe over slam? I do not actually know that is your preference but will take Djoref's word for it for now.
To be frank and direct, I think non-town would prefer to keep a 3rd party role alive as a potential asset later in the game so I am suspicious of this preference. (obviously if slam is actually scum then there are other simple reasons you would prefer he live)
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@raynpelikoneet I take your shrink claim as meaning that despite evidence to the contrary you still want to live.
Would you kindly look at the comments at the bottom of my post here, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=44#863. Maybe it's too late to get votes off you, but if you are town maybe your answer will help me read you properly in another game.
@austinmcc I like most of your posts, but I do not really understand your vote on tehpoofter and it doesn't feel to me like you are pushing that lynch at all.
I talked about conversions some earlier, if you want to pursue that topic I'm glad to during the teatime/night phase.
I'm still willing to move to slam though I feel fine on rayn since he didn't answer me again.
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As rayn has flipped blue I want to know if anyone feels differently about massclaiming as rayn proposed d1.
I still feel it is a bad idea but since I know it was coming from someone in town I'd like to hear if anyone has re-evaluated it or feels differently.
@kitaman27 I would especially like to hear from you, not just because of you and rayn in the whole 1v1 thing (though that is important) but also because you mentioned it as consistent with rayn's play when you were making your case.
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@whoever but especially thrawn2112,
I'll be around for about an hour if you want to talk, I think my filter is short and I think a fair number of my d1 posts refer to rayn so there may be something you can ask me to get better reads.
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While waiting I'm going to go through Vivax filter since he was discussed a bit above and see if it gives me reads.
Vivax
I already commented on Vivax's post asking hope1ess if he was joking (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21088181).
Vivax dislikes that Toad goes 100% on hope1ess on his first post.
I'm not sure if Vivax dislikes the certainty or that it was reached so quickly, but it makes me feel he should have dropped a comment on rayn's certainty regarding kitaman27 later in the day.
On April 01 2014 04:23 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2014 22:08 kushm4sta wrote:
I think toads case on hopeless is unconvincing but it probably comes from town, unless toad stepped it up hard core since his last scum game.
Gotta read Raines newest stuff still.
I think there is evidence that kita has too much information.
What do you think was he referring to kita?
Did this get answered? If not I would like to see kush's response because I think kitaman27 deserves a deeper look.
I don't feel Vivax takes a stand on rayn vs. kita and ends up with a safety vote on Alakaslam. I don't find the Slam vote terrible (as I said, I wouldn't mind voting Slam) but I don't like that he escaped weighing down one way or the other.
If I were to infer from his posts, I felt he was more likely to put his vote on rayn than kita.
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On April 01 2014 11:29 thrawn2112 wrote:
did rayn's flip have any effect on your reads or how you view D1 in general?
Yes.
I think I spent most of my attention d1 on rayn, though I did interact with some other players.
My vote ended up on him largely because I felt he didn't or couldn't explain questions I had about his comments.
I don't let other players dictate how I vote so I'm not set on rayn's 1:1 trade with kitaman. However, I am willing to sheep rayn enough that kitaman27 is a focus and leaning scum based on at least some of rayn's comments.
Frankly, I don't know rayn's meta enough to say whether he always tries to portray "100% confidence" or if he is honest when he is unsure about his reads. Either way, I'm willing to pursue it.
Other than that, I need to reread hope1ess next, the interactions I gave most attention to involved rayn/kita/hopeless so I think he is my second person to be attentive to. Had rayn flipped scum I would have felt a little better since hope1ess also voted on rayn.
As to D1 in general, I think we should have decided earlier if we were going to go with a policy lynch but I didn't expect that gumshoe wouldn't post so it didn't seem like a realistic concern.
Giving you a short post because you are in thread, I'll write more in a little bit.
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EPT
