• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:39
CEST 18:39
KST 01:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20258Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced24BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 791 users

Handslaps and Fisticuff: A PYP Mini [M][T] - Page 14

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 19 Next All
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 11:49 GMT
#2152
Also PGO wouldn't survive bullets (probably).
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 11:51 GMT
#2153
Maybe, but he needs to die in any case. And we can afford him to die even if he is town. Palmar, shoot!
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 11:53 GMT
#2155
Don't worry so much. It'll be fine. I would be very surprised if we lost from this position even if we mislynched/shot a couple of players.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 11:57 GMT
#2158
Tbh I was prepared for that. I already facepalmed in the pre-game.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 11:58 GMT
#2159
Oh wow I gained a new portrait!
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 12:03 GMT
#2161
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 12:03 GMT
#2162
##Vote Shoot Hopeless
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 13:54 GMT
#2170
I wouldn't say it's completely impossible since this many power roles are otherwise quite town-favored.

But of course I know I'm town and Oats is 100% confirmed town to me (he has no role so he couldn't possibly be immune to my check).
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 14:13 GMT
#2173
Let's see... Here are the remaining players (the roles are almost all confirmed, the colors are at least semi-certain):

LSB - joat
Xatalos - dt
Palmar - ass
Artanis[Xp] - jk
gumshoe - vet
Hopeless1der - vigi
prplhz - day vigi
Oatsmaster - vanilla

That leaves 4 sensible suspects for the last remaining Mafia:

LSB - joat
gumshoe - vet
Hopeless1der - vigi
prplhz - day vigi

gusmhoe hasn't really done anything, but sadly I can't expect more from him as town. Null.

LSB claims to have greenchecked me. It would be risky to do as scum, since he would have no way to defend himself if I redchecked him. Slightly town.

prplhz claims to have shot gumshoe, but gumshoe still lives.

Hopeless also claims to have shot gumshoe.

The most likely explanation is that one of them is lying. It's probably Hopeless. They both also have the most dangerous roles in the hands of scum.

So what I propose is:

Palmar shoots Hopeless
If the game still continues, we lynch prplhz
If the game still continues (which I find very unlikely), we kill gumshoe and LSB

I find it very unlikely that we lose this way.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 14:30 GMT
#2176
I think Artanis should roll a 50/50 RNG between jailing Oats or me. Scum will otherwise almost certainly shoot one of us, but in that case they might shoot Artanis. And if we kill Hopeless and he's town there should be no more than 1 KP at night anyway.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 14:30 GMT
#2177
Palmar you shooting Hopeless? Remember that there's a time limit on your ability.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 14:32 GMT
#2179
The more I think about it, it almost has to be Hopeless. I just want to see him flipped :/
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 15:37 GMT
#2188
For Oats to be scum these conditions would have to be met:

- gumshoe didn't pick a role
- Oats picked a role (Veteran) and lied about it despite the lie being easily verifiable after gumshoe flips
- Veteran transformed into a super role that is immune to Cop checks, can KP, bypass protection etc.

Yeah... no.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 16:00 GMT
#2196
If gumshoe is Veteran, how could Oats have a role?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 17:15 GMT
#2214
Yeah, one reason I want to shoot Hopeless ASAP is that as scum he could end the game faster than other players like gumshoe or LSB.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 17:17 GMT
#2216
The additional 1 KP would come from roles like yours.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 18:49 GMT
#2231
Well, that took out the easiest explanation. I didn't really think more thinking would need to be done, but here you go...

Now we know that Hopeless shot gumshoe once. This means that either A) prplhz was lying when he said he used his day-vig on gumshoe or B) gumshoe could somehow survive 2 KP or C) Artanis jailed gumshoe / Hopeless or D) someone bus drived gumshoe and marv.

C seems very, very unlikely. Artanis would need to have RB/save + KP. I heavily doubt that there would be bonus KP through any modifications to a role - it's just too big of a change. Artanis -> very likely town.

It's plausible that gumshoe could somehow survive 2 KP, but not very likely. It'd also be pretty weird if gumshoe could survive 2 KP AND kill marv+rayn through protection at the same time. It's just way too much stuff in one role. I really don't think gumshoe is our remaining scum. gumshoe -> pretty likely town.

prplhz could have lied about his day-vig on gumshoe. Maybe his role changed from day-vig to some kind of a NK role? It doesn't make too much sense though... Day-vig would be fit for scum the way it is. And if his role is the regular day-vig, he would have no way to kill marv+rayn. Also prphlz would have at least semi-bussed both yamato and austin early on. prlhz -> null?

I guess LSB as a scum JOAT could have his DT check replaced with a bus driver ability or something (DT would be useless for scum). It's a bit far-fetched, but possible. It would explain everything perfectly and it wouldn't even be OP in any way. It's problematic that LSB took a heavy risk by claiming greencheck on me (he could do nothing but concede if I redchecked him), but the situation for scumteam is pretty dire, so maybe he just took the risk. LSB -> scum?

The LSB bus driver theory seems surprisingly like the best explanation. Artanis is very likely town, I don't believe gumshoe could both survive 2 KP and kill marv+rayn, and prplhz would need to have his day-vig transformed into some more powerful NK role.

What do you think Artanis?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 19:14 GMT
#2236
Basically every other mechanically possible option (Artanis, gumshoe, prplhz) doesn't make much sense one way or another. I'd argue that gumshoe isn't even really mechanically possible (he'd need to be a double Veteran + have KP that would pass through protection = mission impossible!).

But LSB having bus driver as one of his JOAT options would just... explain everything. It wouldn't actually even be OP in any way and it's not *that* far-fetched (austin did have a GF modification after all and nothing like that was mentioned in the original roles). And him having bus driver would explain everything neatly:

1) Artanis jailed marv
2) LSB bus drived marv-gumshoe
3) Hopeless shot gumshoe (-> marv died)
4) LSB used Mafia KP on rayn

There's nothing weird or odd in any of these events. It's not even very weird that JOAT would be modified for Mafia to replace DT with something like bus driver.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 19:23 GMT
#2237
There's also something pretty weird in LSB's filter. Early on LSB posts this (distancing?):

On March 06 2014 15:46 LSB wrote:
As for alternative lynches who's name isn't LSB

I'm all for Austinmcc, mainly off of this.

Show nested quote +
On March 06 2014 10:07 austinmcc wrote:
Seems like everyone has chosen a nemesis this game.

Hopeless and prpl had their bit.

yamato and marv i guess

we'll let rayn and LSB square off

gumshoe and artanis?

OATSMASTER I CHALLENGE YOU TO BE MY NEMESIS. ALSO, WHY AM I RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING?

Tying peoples alignment together is pretty bad.

I also don't like hoplessder, he has been sheeping rayn so hard


BUT later on he has conveniently forgotten all about austin and brings forth a group of new suspects (although Hopeless remains - and he reluctantly calls yamato a "lurker lynch"):

On March 07 2014 04:15 LSB wrote:
Yamato - lurking hard. Day 1 lurker lynch isn't bad

Gumshoe - although wishy washy, I totes understand the point "How about lets not let people who propose plans take highly abusable roles?". Especially since it seemed like town would follow the plan, it would be a bad idea to sacrifice yourself to send yourself down the list. I'm gonna read him as town.

Hopleless1der - Has done nothing but sheep, has very little original thought, just setup talk. I have no idea what is going on this game, but compared to his last game in Shadowed, there is a huge discrepancy.

Marv-
Is this what town marv would say?
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2014 20:27 marvellosity wrote:
so no-one talked to me about things i should be choosing between :<

Most the rest of his filter seems fine.


Then he disappears until N1 and never talks about anything related to the lynch. He's clearly not very invested in how the lynch turned out (since, in hindsight, it was between 2 scum).
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
March 08 2014 19:27 GMT
#2239
I'm now personally sold on this LSB bus driver theory. It makes more sense than anything else.

##Vote LSB
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Bracket Day 2 - Final
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Reynor vs LamboLIVE!
Clem vs TBD
RotterdaM2502
ComeBackTV 1845
IndyStarCraft 575
WardiTV433
CranKy Ducklings217
Rex141
3DClanTV 114
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2502
IndyStarCraft 575
Rex 141
BRAT_OK 93
MindelVK 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 37921
EffOrt 1034
Barracks 1030
Larva 887
Nal_rA 638
BeSt 514
Shine 482
firebathero 334
Stork 305
Soulkey 166
[ Show more ]
Dewaltoss 137
Hyun 96
Movie 54
sorry 47
sSak 31
zelot 30
Free 26
yabsab 22
Terrorterran 16
IntoTheRainbow 6
Dota 2
Gorgc6417
qojqva3895
420jenkins421
Counter-Strike
fl0m3249
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor599
Liquid`Hasu322
Other Games
Beastyqt1163
Hui .322
Fuzer 179
KnowMe117
QueenE87
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 44
• StrangeGG 22
• Legendk 6
• iHatsuTV 2
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki19
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV751
League of Legends
• Jankos1670
Counter-Strike
• Nemesis1698
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1h 21m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
18h 21m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 17h
WardiTV European League
1d 23h
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.