|
On February 06 2014 09:03 Balla24 wrote: Lonemeow is all like:
- fuck jb is totally scum - god damnit now i have to cc or i get lynched and i probably will still anywyas cause I always get lynched as doctor - (gets lynched) fuck this im out.
I actually had serious doubts that jaybrundage might've been vanilla town and fake claiming - it's not like that hasn't happened to me before...
And to be honest, I still wanted to lynch Koshi but had to switch to a more likely wagon to avoid being lynched myself, kinda.
|
On February 06 2014 10:08 Balla24 wrote: EVERYONE SHOULD JOIN VOICE MAFIA FOR LULZ!
Especially you jonny i think you'd be funny here.
You'd just mislynch me on D1, I'm terrible at this game. Also my spoken English isn't anywhere near as good as my written (which admittedly isn't perfect either).
|
Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far.
So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies. One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum.
Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know.
|
Okay, so:
JonnyLaw
Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion.
Verdict: scummy
Balla24
Hunting scum, despite the roleplay garbage more or less playing like the last game.
Verdict: leaning town
jaybrundage
Early posts are terrible. Case on Koshi is absolutely rubbish. I think suki makes a reasonable point here:
On February 07 2014 08:58 suki wrote: It's not the action but the motives.
Posting a long ass scum case this early just screams try-hard scum look at me I'm hunting scum! Why do you have to prove yourself this early as town, forcing a pure meta "koshi should be happy but he's not" argument to say that Koshi is definitely scum?
This is also horribly scummy, why would you narrow lynch between 2 candidates less than halfway through D1:
On February 07 2014 08:51 jaybrundage wrote: Ok Town I suggest that you read up on Balla and Koshi. Look at there posts and think if it makes more sense that they are town, or if it makes more sense for them to both be scum. I would like to narrow the lynch between these two candidates.
Thank you for your time. I wanna leave soon but might wait around a bit to see if anything juicy pops up.
However, this seems like a town reaction to the situation:
On February 07 2014 11:44 jaybrundage wrote: I can't win with this town. If I give advice and try to make well thought out posts. Then I'm giving advice and I'm not scum hunting enough.
If I actively try to scum hunt and push things I think are scummy. Then I'm scummy for unknown reasons.
Pretty frustrating.
Verdict: null-ish, leaning scum
suki
I really hated the early game trolling and roleplay garbage, but she started to pressure people and post opinions after a while. Makes some good points such as above.
Verdict: null
|
On February 07 2014 19:36 Koshi wrote: Why isn't he bad town? It kinda looks like LM his cases previous game and you were spot on there. Also can you comment on the jayB thing I asked earlier?
Stray kitten is very sorry for being bad
|
On February 08 2014 05:21 Koshi wrote: I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.
I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.
Can we see a vote already?
Why do you think jaybrundage can't be scum if JonnyLaw is town? Connection?
|
On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:24 LoneMeow wrote:On February 08 2014 05:21 Koshi wrote: I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.
I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.
Can we see a vote already? Why do you think jaybrundage can't be scum if JonnyLaw is town? Connection? The way you catched me previous game. I disappeared when it was lynch and wasn't discussing anything. The same happened with Jonny early game. Imagine if Jonny is town and jayB is scum, do you think Jonny would suddenly disappear at the same time hell breaks lose and not offer his opinion?
There's always the chance that he actually had to do something IRL, but yes, I see your point.
On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote: Then when I call him out on him he says that he is there and trying to make sense of the clusterfuck. Which is extremely scummy, and then the next thing he posts is a misinterpretation about something that hapenned PRE-GAME. (the lollypop business).
The "trying to make sense" thing was scummy, I agree.
What do you think of sidesprang? You asked him some questions, did you come to some conclusion based on the answers?
|
On February 08 2014 05:32 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:19 LoneMeow wrote: Okay, so:
JonnyLaw
Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion.
Verdict: scummy
Can you provide some examples to back this up?
See for example this post from last game:
On February 04 2014 11:48 JonnyLaw wrote: Meh, okay so she dislikes everything I say. I think they mean the same thing. I guess it could be taken as she thinks im misguided sometimes rather than simply scummy.
Her question seemed legit enough but balla's right. At the start of day 1 I want to see what someone is willing or able to bring to the game. There's no point saying much until they show what they're committing.
At this point LM's first post was shit but says nothing about his alignment until other actions take place in the game.
Koshi on the other hand created two pages of shit posting. This allowed LM and other LM like people to pop in, say nothing and fuck off out of here acting as though they participated in the game.
Compare to this game - there's absolutely none of that aggression and hostility aimed at any players. It's all generic, see for example these:
On February 07 2014 07:43 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:40 Koshi wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. Overall you had a good game. You had one comment early that tripped my scum radar. I think along the lines of "in newer games people need motivation to post." Then you proceeded to try and take over the town. I felt like you were scum trying to take over the town. Bah, you should have been scum. Nobody cares about past game Jonny. What better time to sit around talking. It lets us get reads we can use later. Better last game or future games or past games than fucking policy talk.
On February 07 2014 07:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Votes are like assholes in this game. Give the man a minute. It's day1 lets sit around and chat a while.
|
On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote: Ok so Jonny doesn't have any scum games that I can find. If someone can link me any that would be great.
To my best understanding he's had none whatsoever.
On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote: Going through the previous town games of his I don't see too much difference between those games and this game. He's always posted one liners, with the occasional longer post here and there. One of the things that I didn't like about his play that I've mentioned is he keeps on shitting on Balla's opening post way after he says it's useless to talk about it.. But in Shadowed Mafia he actually does the same with Koshi's opening. Keeps on mentioning it despite saying it's useless.
If you look at the previous aborted game, he did have one liners but he also posted quite a lot of longer posts where he actively volunteered his thoughts and reads on players. That's what is missing in this game, along with the aggression and hostility towards players he thinks are scum.
|
Ah, thanks. From what I see on a quick read his play there doesn't completely fit this game either. Now I really want to see his case.
|
On February 08 2014 06:29 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:21 LoneMeow wrote: If you look at the previous aborted game, he did have one liners but he also posted quite a lot of longer posts where he actively volunteered his thoughts and reads on players. That's what is missing in this game, along with the aggression and hostility towards players he thinks are scum. true but so far he's been in the thread twice I believe? Right at the beginning and then when he was drunk. Let's see how he fares when he comes back today.
Okay, acceptable. Let's talk about someone else. You choose who.
|
On February 08 2014 06:35 suki wrote: Let's talk about Oats.
Let's talk about how he started a choo choo train on me, and then I came and posted my meta case on Sidesprang and he decided that sidesprang was now a good target.
Hmm..
Ugh, Oatsmaster. So hard to get a read on.
This is kind of funny though:
On February 07 2014 19:17 Oatsmaster wrote: I gave the first analysis on suki, the only thing I sheeped was aqua asking about suki.
how is suki town because she totally ignores jayb's case and thinks he is too tryhard and therefore scum? URGHGHHH
fine. ##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Firstly his scumreads dont make sense. He summarizes all our filters and doesnt say anything about how it makes us scum, he isnt reading in depth at all to know that I think johnny is town and his townread on suki doesnt make sense either. bleh its hard to phrase but I dont get the feeling like he is questioning anything at all in this game.
Oatsmaster is pretty much summarizing what sidesprang did here, without explaining how it makes him scum... Which is what he accuses sidesprang of?!
I still don't know. I kind of thought he was scum in the previous game until late into the day.
|
On February 08 2014 06:47 suki wrote: I find it hard to see Oats and Jay as a scum team though. If I had to put my money on one I'd say Jay is scum and Oats is Oats.
I really don't want connection cases on unflipped players. And I'm not sold on jaybrundage just yet, either. See my earlier post, he has some posts that make him look pretty town after the terrible ones.
|
On February 08 2014 06:54 suki wrote: Hmm.. I want to ask you about your thoughts on Hopeless too.
I read through his game and I think he's townie, but I have reservations on it because last game I totally thought he was townie and he was scum. I'm all meta'd out for the day so I don't feel like diving and seeing how his play was in past games at the moment.
Just wondering if anything sticks out to you.
I'm thinking Hopeless1der is town. Kind of a gut read, but he seems to be posting pretty freely. See for example these:
On February 07 2014 10:54 Hopeless1der wrote:My WiFi just conked out I'll be a little while sorting out wtf happened to it.
|
suki, I agree that some aspects of jaybrundage's play seem scummy, but I just can't ignore the very towny-looking things completely at this stage. The frustration-thing seems very genuine to me, and that is towny as heck. So I would not want to lynch him as the #1 choice.
What do you think about Koshi? His play is somewhat different from the last game, but is that because he's scum-Koshi and trying to hide it (as we know his meta from the previous game) or because he's town-Koshi?
|
On February 08 2014 07:10 suki wrote: Hmm..
Actually LoneMeow, are those 'townie feeling posts' really the only reason why you're not sure Jay's scummy? Do you think his actions this game have been town motivated?
I don't have a good read on his motivations in this game. Which in itself perhaps says something about his alignment. Still my #2 scum read so far.
|
On February 08 2014 04:55 Alakaslam wrote: I have been working both days and nights with little rest periods. Has been really bad.
I did some reading though, and fwiw the start of the game had me really suspicious of the big change in Suki and Balla24's play. Can that stuff be explained? Things like a joke probabilities post about an RNG situation and kingship stuff, I really don't get it.
Time wasting and whatnot, why did you do it?
Okay seriously, I thought you were catching up or something, but you just posted a question and went AFK again? For real? Would you be unhappy if we lynch you?
|
On February 08 2014 07:18 suki wrote:I like Lord Koshi of Koshinton this game. His attitude is confident. Like, his whole 'You will know town Koshi' spiel. Completely different from last game where he came in with his 40 post policy and ended up giving it up halfway through Day 1. He's been contributing and pressuring people. Some posts I like: + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 19:12 Koshi wrote:Oats. Veteran question. Look at this quote from jayB: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 13:11 jaybrundage wrote:Ok so this makes alot more sense. You were not saying my initial response to Koshi's vote on my post was scummy. You think my response to him validating the seriousness of his vote was scummy. Ok so let me go thru my reasoning. So Koshi comes back after I dismiss his post and responds with that his vote is "very real" However where he should put a reason about why his vote is real. He instead just says "you feel off." So this is in hindsight perhaps where I may have misread Koshi's intention with that post. It might have been a joke post and he wasn't being serious. But what I thought was that Koshi actually thought I was scum. He said the vote was real... Twice. So I assumed that he was serious and voting me with the intention that he thought I was scum. At this point I believe that I was making up my case on why Koshi's first post not being excited was scummy. So I was already thinking that Koshi was mafia. This just firmed that in my mind. I had brushed off his vote on me as not being serious. So when he does say its serious he gives me the reason why. The reason is "You feel off" That was it. This is a very noncommittal answer and I think it reeks of scum. I had no reason to ask for why he voted me cause he already provided it it was "You feel off." So instead of asking him I dissected why I thought this post was scummy. Does my thinking make sense? And even when I did ask Koshi why he felt i was off. He never expanded on it. Also you confused me originally with what you said in your post If you are town, your reaction to these "fake votes" would be completely different. But you were not talking about my reaction to the fake votes. You were talking about my reaction to Koshi's explanation that his vote was real. On February 07 2014 12:48 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 12:42 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 12:01 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 11:54 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 11:51 Balla24 wrote: Are you guys seriously pushing jay right now?
There's really nothing new. Everybody knows he's made some scummy decisions. He's been pressured to no end, no reason to keep pushing him now because we know almost everything about him. Let him play the game, watch him to see if he redeems himself, but there's no reason to keep pushing him unless there is NEW information.
Let him play unpressed, see what happens. Balla talk to me why do you think my push on Koshi is scummy. I think while it isn't the most amazing case. It is after all an early day 1 case. And I think alot of things I said are completely true. If you are referring to the big "case", I never said that was scummy. I said that it was ok, but I don't really like the fact that it's built off of koshi not being happy. It's new information, which is good, but the information isn't that great, you know? I don't think that case is scummy at all. What I think was possibly scummy was your initial reaction to koshi's "fake vote". I explained multiple times so I don't really want to type it all out again, but it was based on the fact that your initial reaction was more scum like than town like in the fact that you weren't really trying to figure out what koshi was doing, and were just attacking him. You weren't curious, as I expect a townie who is having a WTF moment would be having. After your initial reaction, you calmed down and started displaying more townie traits, but still, the initial reaction is what my read on you is based off of. Everything after that is "meh" to me. Does that not make sense? Ok this is what I don't know what your talking about. Ok. Here is what I said in regards to your reaction, I even quoted the post I was talking about (i think i'm getting pretty good at quoting heuheu). I said more about it in multiple other posts, but this is what I said at first. This is ONLY in response to the initial reaction to koshi, which is quoted within. On February 07 2014 08:01 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 07:51 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:47 Koshi wrote: Mine is very real. Super real.
you feel off. I feel off. What a non committal post. After you say your vote is real. You make a terrible comment like that. I think what you mean to say. Is that you think I'm scum. BUT your scum so you know that not to be true and your waffling like crazy. Because even when you say the vote is real. Your very next line shows you have no conviction about it. Koshi is scum. I caught one :D In fact, this post is so very scummy. If you are town, your reaction to these "fake votes" would be completely different. You would be confused and curious as to what they find scummy about what you said, or you would just think that it's totally trolly and ignore it. Here you find it is scummy? What cause he thinks you feel off? Your response should have been "what feels off about me then oh wise one koshi" and not "you're scum". The explanation for why I voted for you in the first place is here, they are relatively separate (not relevant to your reaction to koshi): + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 07:58 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. You're making so many excuses for no reason. Why would you tryharding last game have anything to do with this game or how tough it's going to be? In fact, what are you trying to say when you say you "tryharded the shit out of last game"? What, are you implying you're not going to tryhard the shit out of this game, why not? Scumhunting is scumhunting. Sure there's not much to talk about on day1 but that's where you make stuff to talk about and then scumhunt from there. There has been no effort to do that. Instead, all you have done is called my first post "icky", which was 100% totally intended to do just that, get people to start talking and scumhunting from the get go which should be pretty obvious to everybody, but for some reason you decided it was icky and then make excuses for what I can only assume is going to be bad scumhunting on day 1. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:32 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
@suki, that implies that you think jaybrundage is town, even though I am clearly 2.5% less likely to be scum than he is. That first post. Ugh I'm still feeling icky from it. Before this post I was puzzled about the reasoning of jayB and why he thought he found me scum. It was almost too scummy to be scum. But this post actually made me rethink that and made me think that he actually had a townie mindset going after me. The problem I am having here is that if he actually is town, why wasn't he able to make that shine through faster? This quote is near the end of page 3 off his filter. To me it feels like he finally was able to twist his story into something that could come from town. But why couldn't he do it earlier? That reponse instantly would have made me back off and not think twice, this time I backed off but now that I think about it again I am puzzled. Your opinion? On February 07 2014 19:36 Koshi wrote: Why isn't he bad town? It kinda looks like LM his cases previous game and you were spot on there. Also can you comment on the jayB thing I asked earlier? On February 07 2014 21:16 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:51 jaybrundage wrote: Ok Town I suggest that you read up on Balla and Koshi. Look at there posts and think if it makes more sense that they are town, or if it makes more sense for them to both be scum. I would like to narrow the lynch between these two candidates.
Thank you for your time. I wanna leave soon but might wait around a bit to see if anything juicy pops up. This is such fucking bullshit btw. No way a townie says that with what he got. No fucking way. On February 07 2014 23:21 Koshi wrote: I just think it is too easy coming from Oats. His vote previous game on me was actually based on us playing together and he knew something was off. His vote on Hopeless same story. I don't really know how he ended up on Cake in the end though. I guess we played him and he had no clue anymore.
But this game his vote on jayB was meh. His vote on Suki was meh. His vote on Sidesprang is meh.
And he hasn't called anybody town yet and came in the thread trowing some suspicion on Aqua which I didn't like at all. He's motivated and involved in the game. He's open with his reads. He's active. So yeah I think he's pretty townie.
He's definitely not as scummy as he was in the last game, but I'm not so certain about him being town either unfortunately.
The problem I have is, I think he's good enough to fake this now that he knows why he was called scum in the last game.
I'm not a big fan of things like:
On February 07 2014 18:30 Koshi wrote: Oatsie, my man. I am totes town right?
This is also pretty interesting:
On February 07 2014 18:33 Koshi wrote: I'll take that as a yes. Do you think both jayb and Jonny are scum? I doubt it tbh.
On February 08 2014 05:21 Koshi wrote: I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.
I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.
Can we see a vote already?
I wouldn't mind hearing what caused the 180 in opinion.
|
On February 08 2014 09:11 Aquanim wrote:@LoneMeow: Is there any particular reason you gave your reads on Jonny, Balla, Jay and suki here but not on anybody else?
They seemed like the key players to talk about when I read the thread.
|
On February 08 2014 10:34 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 10:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Its a bit hard to type on my phone but LM is pretty scummy for defending hopeless off nothing. Not that im saying hopeless is scum but that scum have unjustifiable town reads. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:59 LoneMeow wrote:On February 08 2014 06:54 suki wrote: Hmm.. I want to ask you about your thoughts on Hopeless too.
I read through his game and I think he's townie, but I have reservations on it because last game I totally thought he was townie and he was scum. I'm all meta'd out for the day so I don't feel like diving and seeing how his play was in past games at the moment.
Just wondering if anything sticks out to you. I'm thinking Hopeless1der is town. Kind of a gut read, but he seems to be posting pretty freely. See for example these: On February 07 2014 10:54 Hopeless1der wrote:My WiFi just conked out I'll be a little while sorting out wtf happened to it. You are referring to this right? I had exactly the same thought. I like how he is self-conscious about how weak it is though. But those quotes he posted are just completely not alignment indicative for me and beyond that I don't agree that he is posting "freely".
Look at Hopeless1der's filter in the previous game. He's always more or less on-topic, avoiding anything that could be used against him. Now look at the posts I quoted. Freely saying something completely un-game-related and then making a joke. Totally different feel. Thus, gut read.
|
On February 08 2014 10:21 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:40 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:39 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. This game just got a whole lot easier. ##Vote jaybrundage Oh look at my in foolishness Im soo cool. GET ORGINAL SON Open the nested quotes. What is with Balla's vote here? Yes I don't like the post much but if jay follows through then it is a policy we don't do often enough according to everyone, so why not? Indeed I anyone lurks harder than me tell me who and I will vote them until I find a filter as strikes me more scummy.
So what's the conclusion here? Is Balla24's vote scummy or not?
|
On February 08 2014 18:09 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 18:08 Aquanim wrote:On February 08 2014 18:02 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 08 2014 17:59 Aquanim wrote: Have you actually read LoneMeow's posts? I read the thread then reread the filters that stook out to me. It was suki, jayb and koshi. So you're saying you've scumread LoneMeow without actually looking at his posts, just waving your hand and say he's "lurking"? No, I read his posts and saw nothing of merit.
So if you think there's "nothing of merit" why don't you say that instead of saying "lurking"?
|
On February 08 2014 18:29 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 18:23 LoneMeow wrote:On February 08 2014 18:09 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 08 2014 18:08 Aquanim wrote:On February 08 2014 18:02 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 08 2014 17:59 Aquanim wrote: Have you actually read LoneMeow's posts? I read the thread then reread the filters that stook out to me. It was suki, jayb and koshi. So you're saying you've scumread LoneMeow without actually looking at his posts, just waving your hand and say he's "lurking"? No, I read his posts and saw nothing of merit. So if you think there's "nothing of merit" why don't you say that instead of saying "lurking"? ...I don't think he's coming back. What do you think of his case on Koshi? And the rest of our exchange on the previous page. Personally, I'm not impressed one bit.
Most of it is based on the first 2 hours of the game. Do I need to say much more? It's garbage.
|
On February 08 2014 17:46 JonnyLaw wrote:Uhh where's the scum hunting? Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:24 Koshi wrote: The kid with the lollipop is when I roll scum.
It goes like this: I see scum PM, I am very angry --> I pretend to be really happy in the thread.
But this game it went like this: I AM FUCKING TOWN HELL FUCKING YEAH --> I don't have to pretend shit and I simply scumhunt.
Currently I am looking at Jonny and JayB. Why am I not looking at Balla atm? Because isn't it more likely Balla is scum and I am being blindfolded? Good question but no! Balla posts about current topics, his posts influence how I think and are well thought out and he posts carefree and townylike. I just like everything about him.
And I really dislike you 2 atm. JayB is shaking in his boots and Jonny you just left the thread as soon as JayB got attention.
##unvote ##vote: JonnyLaw
Let it be known.
And another post threatening the power of town koshi. Unleash it already. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:37 Koshi wrote: You do realize I will be having a 40 page filter if you continue to push this read? It won't be pretty.
Take a step back jay.
We need fresh eyes.
Do you really expect there'd be some super serious scum hunting in the first 2 hours of the game? I'm not a fan of the early game shenanigans but it does not make the players who do that scum, it's all null tells.
|
I'd put Alakaslam as my #2 scum candidate currently. His presence in the thread was really underwhelming, he did not really comment on anyone besides suki/jaybrundage out of the hot topics and made some vague remarks about Balla24 without coming to any conclusion whatsoever about what they tell about his alignment.
|
Alakaslam, read up on JonnyLaw and comment on whatever you think is important. You're far too focused on jaybrundage, need opinions on others.
|
Koshi, what do you think of Alakaslam's response to Balla24's big post?
|
And just to make my stance clear:
##Vote: JonnyLaw
|
On February 08 2014 18:52 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 14:37 Balla24 wrote:Okeydokeyroleypoleyoley, this game is moving along much better than last game IMO. There are more townie people, less questionable people. Obviously this is good. So let's get to it. The probable mafia for me today are Jonnylaw and Alakaslam. Unfortunately they are both relatively lurky, thus hard to read. However this is in direct contrast to the previous game where they were both spammy and somewhat active for a period during every section of day 1. Alakaslam has so little content. indeed, tough to read stuff working days and nights. I am trying though, I shouldn't need replace. I get the impression that he doesn't really know what to talk about in this game. this follows naturally from the circumstances. I've expected to see a lot of posts on the verge of being spammy when he is here, related to what he is reading at the current moment. I tend to do this as either alignment but I hear you. Kind of tough for me atm to get more than 15min phone reading time though let alone posting time. He started to do that earlier but didn't really follow through. Makes sense given the circumstances. The things he HAS chosen to talk about are just not helpful to town: On February 08 2014 04:55 Alakaslam wrote: I have been working both days and nights with little rest periods. Has been really bad.
I did some reading though, and fwiw the start of the game had me really suspicious of the big change in Suki and Balla24's play. Can that stuff be explained? Things like a joke probabilities post about an RNG situation and kingship stuff, I really don't get it.
Time wasting and whatnot, why did you do it? This is his first post. The first thing he decides to talk about is the change in suki and I's play. The same basis for some of the strongest cases in the thread. And I withdrew this as I read on. Mind you, I buckled down pretty quickly and got to business within the first 2 pages of the thread and this post is coming today LONG after everything has settled and there is plenty of real content to talk about. Which is the cause of the problem. I haven't had time to fully catch up at all, resorting to filter out of context & stuff. However I may have more time soon. I MAKE NO PROMISE. I don't understand the reasoning behind this post. What conclusion is he trying to draw? that your play is suspiciously different as of what I had read. I don't see any attempt to draw a conclusion about our alignment. Didn't that turn out for the better? Or should I have voted you based on your first two pages fifteen pages in the thread? I am not unaware of what I do! He leaves it open-ended for us to guess at what he's trying to get at. it is my opinion, and a FoS. That I later withdrew at that but feh, I will beat the dead horse. As if he wanted us to look back at it and say "Wow! These two really were trolly! That must mean they are scum. There had already been discussion on suki about it too. I was and am unaware of that. I must have skimmed over it. I wanted it duly noted that Alakaslam was not unsuspicious of earlygame trolling by players who had not previously engaged in it. Are you reading some sort of tone into my writing?
If so, I have a montage from YouTube for you. Next post.Same thing here, I don't understand the intent: + Show Spoiler +On February 08 2014 10:03 Alakaslam wrote: I have work folks. Yes I would be unhappy if I was lynched.
That being said @suki: you appear to have "gotten better" as has Balla24 but it just doesn't strike me as the best entrance. I may be biased through being tired and a time crunch. This is the withdrawal I refer to above, essentially, if not one of a few.
I am kind of fighting a pregame bias that Jaybrundage is scum because last game I was CONVINCED he was scum and !what! He was almost made innocent child.
Going to try some filters now. On his second return to the thread, he becomes more Alakaslam like. ... I am me. Usually my phone prowess means I have time out my ears to read/post, but lately I have been doing work of a driving nature and I can't read and drive. Starts posting inquiries on what he is currently reading. This is good. However it abruptly ends before he even gets to anywhere good within the thread, with him posting some self-meta analysis that he posted last game. I believe my abrupt absences make sense in the context of the new and extreme workload. Irl. I would have expected some conclusions from his read through. the posts are my conclusions. Does my vote that he commented on make me scummy? Town does scummy things and scum does townie things. Show me a game where I was quick to conclusions and I will show you wrong conclusions. Indeed you may be hard pressed for the quick conclusions. Is suki trolling more scummy? There are no conclusions. Slam makes conclusions regardless of how far-fetched they are. you may need to define "conclusions" for me with that statement. Is JB scummy for suggesting that he will policy lurkers and not having his vote on you? Now that I am aware that is the case, yes. Makes it empty policy talk that he is not actually behind. These are the questions I would expect him to be asking himself and posting the conclusions to. asking myself questions? I already know what is going on in my head. I need to find what is going on in others. Used the word "comclusions" again which I question as one questions the use of "inconceivable" in "The Princess Bride" Instead he just makes broad statements and questions about the posts he finds interesting. The posts I am referencing are in the spoilers below, but it's basically just the rest of his posts. + Show Spoiler [The rest of slams posts] +On February 08 2014 10:17 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 10:12 Koshi wrote: pls do Alakaslam. You are on the shortlist to get lynched. Am I? Jay had better be leading that with any who agree on lynchig lurkers. Back to his. On February 08 2014 10:21 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:40 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:39 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. This game just got a whole lot easier. ##Vote jaybrundage Oh look at my in foolishness Im soo cool. GET ORGINAL SON Open the nested quotes. What is with Balla's vote here? Yes I don't like the post much but if jay follows through then it is a policy we don't do often enough according to everyone, so why not? Indeed I anyone lurks harder than me tell me who and I will vote them until I find a filter as strikes me more scummy. On February 08 2014 12:19 Alakaslam wrote: After more irl and deciding I have to skim stuff I see a ploy of sorts. Jaybrundage did little but call out Suki and Balla early for trolling and stuff.
They have said that is all in the interest of fun which I can understand. I too am someone who enjoys trolling...
... And rolling scum. Look, if you read TL mafia LXIII you will see the context for a quote I am about to copy in here.
The point of this game is getting better, not more comfortable with trolling or believe me, there would be YouTube in my filter by now. On February 08 2014 12:19 Alakaslam wrote: After more irl and deciding I have to skim stuff I see a ploy of sorts. Jaybrundage did little but call out Suki and Balla early for trolling and stuff.
They have said that is all in the interest of fun which I can understand. I too am someone who enjoys trolling...
... And rolling scum. Look, if you read TL mafia LXIII you will see the context for a quote I am about to copy in here.
The point of this game is getting better, not more comfortable with trolling or believe me, there would be YouTube in my filter by now. One more thing: On February 08 2014 12:19 Alakaslam wrote: After more irl and deciding I have to skim stuff I see a ploy of sorts. Jaybrundage did little but call out Suki and Balla early for trolling and stuff.
First off, I don't recall Jaybrundage calling out me and suki for trolling and stuff. Maybe he's talking about Jonnylaw? Regardless of who it is, this is a strange statement because that's literally all he's done himself, and if he's calling JB scummy for that then that's pretty sketchy... Moving on, Jonnylaw. I feel bad here because of his drunk posting last night and how I said I wanted to ignore it while waiting for Jonny to come back and tell me if they were serious or not. But it's been a while now... his activity level is making me very wary(did I use the right word?) on top of all the other stuff I've already posted about. So actually, mid-writing this I decide I don't really have anything more to say about Jonny. I'd appreciate if he would try again to refute the points I brought up against him last night, because all drunk jonny did was mis-interpret what I was saying and ignore other stuff then call me scum for my filter which has still not been followed up on. Actually he also did this while he was sober too: On February 07 2014 08:23 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 08:14 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 08:08 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 08:02 Koshi wrote: Balla, let's give jayb a break for a sec.
What do you think about Jonny? Why is he gone? He wanted to talk, but there is nothing from him atm. He's also scum. Last game he called my early unexplained vote shit, this game he says: On February 07 2014 07:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Votes are like assholes in this game. Give the man a minute. It's day1 lets sit around and chat a while. He also completely dismissed my first post without even giving it a a real thought, similar to what jaybrundage did, and has been spewing irrelevant things like commentary about post-game which is completely off-topic unless he wants to make a point about this game with it. Also the aqua stuff is pretty irrelevant, and actually anti-town. What's the point of talking about Aqua's meta if he hasn't even posted anything yet? Sure I guess it's interesting to see if anybody has played with him, but you can 1. do that research yourself. 2. wait to see if anybody brings any meta arguments and information to the table themselves. Knowing whether someone has played with someone or not doesn't do anything. There's nothing to discuss in your first post. It's not good. Are you trying to manipulate what I said? On February 07 2014 07:01 JonnyLaw wrote: That post is worse than Koshi's opening post. how bored were you waiting for this game to start?
Fuck man, I was happy last game thinking you were prob town. You're making me go back to my roots here. Huh? There's four of you tossing around votes. This is not what I said. I didn't say there was something to discuss, I said you didn't give it a real thought. It's actually giving me flashbacks to Normal Mini Mafia 1 vibes where I was scum and I was called scum early by multiple people because of my activity, and unfortunately I wasn't able to re-establish myself in the thread like I would have liked. I'm not sure if that's what's happening here obviously until Jonny gives me some sense that this is not what's happening. Another thing that makes me feel worse about him is that when we are both town, we tend to work very well together, regardless of how clashy our personalities are. We're not working well together. I don't know who he thinks is scum, all I know is he read my filter and thought it smelled bad. Maybe that will change. The towniesSuki, Aquanim, Hopeless1der all seem to be pushing pro-town things. Hopeless1der's game is much much different than last and i'm not getting any super bad vibes from him. The things he is doing he seems to have reason for it and anything that is unexplained he seems to have a followup and explanation for it. The things that stuck out to me last game are not apparent here. He is not content to sit around and talk about early game shennanigans, he is not super afk lurky like last time. Here's where I get the impression he doesn't want to be talking about policy, whereas like I made the case on last game, he is content to do so as scum: On February 07 2014 10:22 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm a little miffed that people are so hung up about talking about the old game. It is better than policy, so there's that... Then there are multiple points where I feel he is asking the right questions, these are things that I want to ask too and there seems to be reasoning behind them. + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 10:36 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:32 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
@suki, that implies that you think jaybrundage is town, even though I am clearly 2.5% less likely to be scum than he is. That first post. Ugh I'm still feeling icky from it. How is Balla's first post indicative of alignment? On February 07 2014 11:21 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:51 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:47 Koshi wrote: Mine is very real. Super real.
you feel off. I feel off. What a non committal post. After you say your vote is real. You make a terrible comment like that. I think what you mean to say. Is that you think I'm scum. BUT your scum so you know that not to be true and your waffling like crazy. Because even when you say the vote is real. Your very next line shows you have no conviction about it. Koshi is scum. I caught one :D was koshi scum before or after his super serious vote on you jay? On February 08 2014 03:12 Hopeless1der wrote: because he's not randomly jumping around, there is a trigger, there is a process involved in moving from one person to another to pressure them and he follows through long enough to get a response without getting stuck in a tunnel. He doesn't worry about needing to drop his read, and yeah he's kind of called a lot of people scum so there are lots of options but its bring information to town and presenting new viewpoints without bringing in clutter or being a distraction. Here is an example of where he follows up on something. This was in reference to me asking him about his read on oats, sure it took a little for me to get it out of him but he got it out quickly in response to me. There's logical thinking here, and the desire to learn oats' alignment (and mine, in a previous post). The trolliness you guys can see on your own in his filter, I think that is more of a town trait for hopeless. Aquanim is more of the same. He has a natural inquisitive nature that I think is clear in his posting. He's trying to learn people's alignments. A lot of the questions he's asking are questions I would have asked myself, though there are also a lot of easy questions that have obvious answers as well. He's also trying to bring new information to the thread. + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 09:35 Aquanim wrote: @suki: What is your read on jayB and koshi, in the light of their little contretemps? On February 07 2014 13:16 Aquanim wrote: @jayb: Do you think it's impossible or unlikely that a town Koshi would have a gut read on you which he is unwilling or unable to state more precisely than that he thinks you feel "off"?
I know in previous games I've had gut reads on people's posts where I had difficulty saying exactly what I didn't like about them, but was certain there was something weird. On February 08 2014 11:30 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote: I want to lynch sidesprang. I wont lynch alak like right now but I dont think he is town Why don't you want to lynch alak "right now" if you don't think he's town? In the first quote is an example of something he does a lot: where he clearly thinks suki is scummy with his followup case on her, so he wants to force her to take a stance on the other possible other people he may or may not think are scummy for obvious reasons. He does this multiple times towards multiple people. The other two are examples of good questions that are attempting to learn more about the person and understand their alignment. Even though the last one is an easy question, it's something that Oats really has to address because it's just a weird thing to say. Everything seems to indicate that Aquanim is very curious, attempting to learn everybody's alignment. I said earlier that his attempts at starting conversation seemed awkward and he wasn't really getting that done. That's changed drastically and I think he's really getting what he wants from the thread now. The main thing for Suki is that, while I didn't like her initial cases on people. She defends them as if she really thought what she was saying was true. The koshi case was pretty bad, but she never really backed down from it. The jaybrundage meta case was unexplained, but she followed up with a great case on what she saw. The sidesprang case is one of the few where she does somewhat backdown: On February 08 2014 06:02 suki wrote:Sidesprang's meta: + Show Spoiler +Cop in II TitanicOn December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote: Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
--------
About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
-------
@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
This is pretty much his first post in the game. Notice he writes a short thing about policy and then starts scum hunting. Most of his posts in this game are scum hunting, but I didn't find many difficult questions in this one. Town in Newbie Mini Mafia LIOn January 06 2014 08:10 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 07:47 TheChyz wrote: Why so eager to have people help you achieve your goals? Maybe they don't agree with them. If onlywonderboy is right, then your rules help you if you are scum as well since you seem to be very active in which lynching lurkers would help your cause of staying alive. Also having people fight can cause confusion in the town. So I don't see a reason why people should just help you achieve your goals. You don't see a reason why people should help Bella with creating a "tough environment for mafia to hide in and lynch some mafia" ? Starts the game off with a pointed question trying to find TheChyz's motives. On January 06 2014 08:59 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 08:23 Balla24 wrote: Let's hear some opinions on some people. Sidesprang what do you think of OWB and thechyz so far? etc etc
Be analytical. I'm already feeling a bit weird with thechyz but it's preliminary obviously and i'm waiting for him to post some more. @ onlywonderboyatm he is just null for me. from his PoV he has only stated obvious things so far. It not really contributing atm, but its to early to fault him for that. And he does say he is going to more active and contribute with meaningfull analysis, so as long as he atleast tries to do this we should be able to read him in the future. @ thechyz, I don't like him atm. In his first post he says he agrees with you and dont mind lynching lurkers to discourage lurking. But then in his second post he says he see no reason to why people should help you achivieving that same agenda he just agreed with. Feels very much like a contradiction to me. This is his third post in the game and he's pointing out contradictions. On January 07 2014 15:33 sidesprang wrote: @theDragoon Who would you vote for now and why ?
Also, why did you change your mind and wanted to defend yourself afterall ? Questioning TheDragoon who was the top lynch candidate of the day. sidesprang was wary that the lynch on theDragoon was going to smoothly and tried getting information from theDragoon before the lynch. Miller in TL Mafia XXHe spends most of the game apologizing for his low post quantity. scum in TL Mafia XVIIILike sidesprang pointed out, this scum game is from 4 years ago, something that I didn't think about as I was just looking through past games and not noticing the date. Regardless, I'll include some posts here to show where my line of thought came from in my case that I wrote up. On February 14 2010 12:00 sidesprang wrote: I definatly agree that we should not lynch someone based on day one clues, unless someone can make a foolproof case. But they should definatly be discussed and looked through, cause they could help us put the pieces toghter at a later day.
And it also gives us something to talk about, and im pretty sure the more posts there are the more information one could gather from this game and put it togheter. policy talk to start the game On February 15 2010 00:30 sidesprang wrote: L's point about beeing 20 mafia and that it will take a long time before we get two different clues on a single mafia i dont really think is true.
Last game i was in there was 8 mafia and they had 3kp. meaning at day 3 we in the worst case scenario had 1 mafia with double clues.
In this game there is 20 mafia and 6 KP, meaning in the worst case we would have 4 double clues at day 4. But you with there beeing possible 12 mafia kills and 2 lynces one should think/hope that some mafia would die, and we get double clues at day 3 again.
Two posts later, setup talk. On February 16 2010 08:05 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 07:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 16 2010 07:44 redtooth wrote:On February 16 2010 06:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Spamming the thread full of what shit? Posting an objective compilation of everyones arguments? Compiling voting history? Defending myself when redtooth and Ace accused me of being mafia? Finally getting Bill Murray to justify his statements? Don't put me on the same level as BM TT___TT
I guess for the time being Empyrean is our best bet. Ver did a great job of pointing out the inconsistency in his pro-town/mafia behavior from past games and the clue connection is just very very very very strong.
Redtooth did a decent job of defending himself, or at least why it doesn't make sense that he and Ace are both in the same mafia family. His argument for him and ace not being in different mafia families doesn't make sense. "Why would mafia defend a mafia from another family/not mafia"
Unless he wanted to discourage clue analysis because he fears it will hurt his mafia family, or wanted to defend Ace because regardless of Ace's role his argumentation is successfully dividing the town. If redtooth is mafia, he has no way of knowing Ace's role anyway, so saying "i wouldn't defend another families mafia" makes no sense because he doesn't know who those people are. I really doubt the mafia are going to ONLY defend one another, look what happened when I got lynched in the last game. By analyzing who I defended/supported/whose clues I ignored the entire rest of the mafia family was caught.
I'm not accusing you of being mafia redtooth, I'm just pointing out that the argument falls short.
I'm voting for L because so far his arguments have been extremely consistent, he's been trying to get the town moving/discouraging waste posts, and providing excellent clue analysis. Redtooth shouldn't have a problem with this, don't you want L as the other elected role anyway? you're right. actually that's exactly what i want you to do. i want L as mayor and i want to be pardoner. no vigilantes means pardoner is very very powerful if he is mafia. as for my argument in why it's sort of illogical for ace and me to be mafia in separate families is because consider the alternative: i could have silently held back and not brought attention to myself instead of being in the middle of controversy between the town. knowing previous games, L vs Ace was going to become a shitstorm whether i stepped in or not. instead i chose to argue a point, blew my top (admittedly more than a few times), and got into a position where my alignment was pretty damn clear. and if Ace isn't on my team (which would be the case if i was mafia and he wasn't in my family) then i would want him dead regardless of what role/alignment he was. and guys i've said this before but i genuinely believed L was full of shit. now i only think he is half shitty but i've expressed my disdain for day 1 clues enough already. so it's not about mafia ONLY defending each other. it's about a mafia risking his own neck to defend a good player that's not on his team. THAT is something that doesn't make sense. so if it doesn't make sense then that means i'm not mafia. yay we are finally caught up. Fair point, now that is a good argument. Why are we assuming day 1 clues are bad based off previous games? There are 20 mafia. It's highly unlikely that mafia will be getting 6 kills a night, I'd say 4 MAYBE 5 is more likely. Why? 1) Overlapping kills. The mafia are simply going to hit the same targets. Let's say, for example, Player X is green. He's been painted red by a lot of people and thus might be hit by both families. This could happen with anyone who was painted red but is not mafia of either family. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if even 2 kills overlap. 2) Smart medics. While mafia might avoid really big targets early on because they will be protected by medics, medics who are able to anticipate mafia goals will help reduce kills. With 20 mafia, let's assume we get 5 hits a day. We don't see overlapping clues until DAY SIX DAY SIXIf everyone feels uncomfortable with Day 1 clue analysis just based on previous experience, I guess there isnt really anything I can say. But let's please not ignore clues on Day 2. If someone makes an accusation based on clues at you, provide an alternative. Simply saying "day 1 clues are trash" isn't enough, especially when you aren't addressing the point of just how many mafia there are in this game and how strong clues need to be. Also redtooth, I'd like you to clear something up for me. I found a mildly disturbing inconsistency in your arguments. While L was painting Ace red based on clues you said clue analysis on day 1 is trash; that's fine. You also said the clues pointing to ace specifically were shaky and not well thought-out. Then merely a few posts later you said that the clues pointing toward Ace were so obvious/numerous he can't be mafia. Was there a change of heart here? what happened? Man your so wrong about the overlapping clues thing. If we dont see overlapping clues before day 6, it is because the mafia only hits the town. And that is not realistic. The mafia hitting 1/3 each lynch seems realistic if not to low to me. Then we have 6 dead by day 3. And already overlapping clues. Altho the mafia would prolly have overlapping hits. But my point still stands. We will see overlapping hits WAY before day 6, and if we dont we're allready doomed cause we've lost half our town The next post, more setup talk. On February 21 2010 12:10 sidesprang wrote: i changed my vote to quickstriker, but i dont see why we should not double lynch tomorrow. Since i feel we have alot of good clues to work of, and we will get more.
So you're gonna have to give more reasons for me to take away my double lynch vote. No reason for his vote. On February 26 2010 16:59 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 16:00 Scamp wrote: I'd also appreciate it if Sidesprang and Tredmasta would speak up. Especially Sidesprang in order to explain his last vote. First, my votes are not set in stone. If so i would not have voted so early. But its the weekend coming up and i know im definatly going out on saturday(and the voting closes 1AM(or something like that) in norway. So i had to vote something in case i wont have the time later, ofc i could have abstained but i think scamp is mafia and that L might be and he voting scamp, because of the cluelink towards you. voting L, because he has lead this town on so many wrong turns. And i don't see any real proof of him beeing non mafia, and if he is mafia he has gotten away with far to much allready. reasons for not voting johnnyspaz who i think is definatly mafia, let the other mafia team kill him. And to the clue link from malongo, im not really sure what aristocracy of money means but for the rest of the first bold sentence i feel that is a huge strech. And im not decafchickens friend And the bold part number two. That has to be a clue to johhnyspaz, i mean he gets turn into a pincushion. And he has a picture of sonic the hedgehog. Basically this is his only scum hunting effort in the game. Again, his filter was super short, but the thing that I noticed is the lack of scumhunting compared to his other town games. But I missed something big in my meta analysis.. That is, sidesprang was scum in the original Shadowed game. Scum in Shadowed MafiaOn February 04 2014 10:14 sidesprang wrote:Lol wtf game started today afterall. Anyhow regarding policy shit, not much to say, think it's covered allready. But yeh, look for content instead not postcount. We do NOT want ppl spamming useless shit. Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 09:47 jaybrundage wrote:Jonny as you have had alot of experience with Balla as scum how would you say he plays as a scum player. Whats his tells if you will Guess your not in the database either huh jonny XD If your gonna compile your games you might as well make a post in the mafia database with them listed and a quick review :o Why did you want Jonny to out Ballas scumtells in the thread this early before Balla even had a chance to play into them ? On February 04 2014 12:29 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 11:25 jaybrundage wrote:On February 04 2014 10:14 sidesprang wrote:Lol wtf game started today afterall. Anyhow regarding policy shit, not much to say, think it's covered allready. But yeh, look for content instead not postcount. We do NOT want ppl spamming useless shit. On February 04 2014 09:47 jaybrundage wrote:Jonny as you have had alot of experience with Balla as scum how would you say he plays as a scum player. Whats his tells if you will Guess your not in the database either huh jonny XD If your gonna compile your games you might as well make a post in the mafia database with them listed and a quick review :o Why did you want Jonny to out Ballas scumtells in the thread this early before Balla even had a chance to play into them ? Sidesprung you asked me a question I responded. There is alot going in the thread right now. I don't just want to see content I want to see some post count too. People are conversing, poking at one another a back and forth. You make one question at me and you disappeared. Don't you have anything else to comment on, or respond to my post or make a comment on another post or give your opinion. Anything really. Dropping one post and leaving the thread is not the environment town should be fostering. Thru discussion like i was talking about earlier we can learn other alignments and discover ulterior motives. Ill give you somethings to post on. What do you think of Balla's early vote on LM? Was it appropriate given LM"s posts? What do you think of my response to your post? Does what I say made sense? Do you agree that I should have questioned Jonny about Balla's scum game or should I have not said anything? Why do you think Suki poke at Jonnys two opinions? Do you think Suki got defensive after Balla inquired about her post? Why do you think Suki would post about jonny if not trying to discern if hes mafia or not? (These questions go out to Suki as well?) Who is your towniest read at the moment? Who do you think is most likely scum? Do you believe in policy lynching lurkers? What is the lowest amount someone should be expected to post? Firstly its Sidesprang, not sidesprung or whatever else ppl think it is. I don't mind Balla voting for LM, because I think if he keeps on playing like this he will hopefully be easy to read. As for why he voted I dont really agree with. LM's stance on koshi's "plan" is kinda like mine. Judge people based on content not number of posts, and also only reason to lynch lurkers is if there are no better options available. I liked your response, you had a reason for asking it and you had logic backing it up. Answer felt honest. Tho I do not agree with your logic. It's nice and all generating discussion, but I dont think going over ppl's meta this early is wise. As I think it would be harder to use meta against players if it's been discussed in thread first. The whole suki / jonny deal requires more thought if I wanna read something out of it. Aka atm I don't really know, and I will read more up on that tomorrow when I got better time. I got some people whom I feel are playing protown atm, but I see no reason sharing townreads at this point. I don't have scumreads atm, tho I got a bit interested in Suki since she disliked your post. A post I liked cause you are doing what I think you should be doing with lurkers (get them to post, so you can read them, not lynch them blindly). People should post enough to be readable and enough to get their scumreads out. I don't belive in a set number. his first two posts in the game. Basically... He doesn't spend time on policy talk and he starts hunting right away. So yeah. Taking this into account my case on sidesprang doesn't hold any water. Based on the games that I linked in my original post, I think that my conclusions were reasonable - policy talk in his scum game and scum hunting in his town games. But taking into account the previous Shadowed game where he was scum it's obvious he's changed (read improved) his scum game quite a bit. Anyways, I suppose I'm null on sidesprang for now. I'll take a closer look at him later. But the way she does it is humble, she doesn't try to stick up for it at all when she realizes how off it is, and actually gives reasoning why it was bad. In contrast, if you remember Koshi's case from last game, when he realized it was bad it was more like "shit yeah this was bad sorry guys peace!" trying to sweep it under the rug. I'm probably one of the few, but I think that suki's trolling and roleplaying and all that is actually more indicative of a town player. They are more likely to be happy and care-free and attempt to have fun. Now i'm not saying this couldn't come from a scum player who is good at the game (like suki is), but I believe a scum player would be much more serious in attempting to fit in right away with the town, trying to scum hunt, trying to be pro-town etc. Beyond that I see real attempts at trying to figure out other's alignments, and a curiosity, almost more fierce then anybody else in this game. She has 7 pages of filter already for crying out loud. It's reminiscent of a town koshi, town rayn type player. QuestionablesEverybody else is rather questionable. I'm getting tired of sidesprang's dissapearing acts. He does this way too much. From the little he has posted he leans town-null. He wants to dispell attacks on him. Hes sharing his opinions on people more freely then last game. It's good. Lonemeow is playing similar to last game, where I thought he was scum, but he was town... sooooo...... we'll see about him. He posted a lot today, which is good in comparison to last game and the games i've read of him. That means he is somewhat motivated to play this game. We've seen him shut down in a scum game, and he's expressed his hatred for playing scum, so that bodes well for him. Jaybrundage started off bad pretty bad and since then he hasn't been amazing, but when he explained what was going through his head at the time of the shitstorm in the beginning, it kind of makes sense from a town perspective like others were saying. Lots of OMGUS which is annoying, but maybe it's because all the scum are picking on him so he can't even get anything else out before he is attacked again. And in all seriousness, he isn't actually thinking like me at all. So we'll see what that means at the end I guess lol. Finally.... ##vote Jonnylaw I reply in green. You pointed something out in there, jay did not push me or lone. Pushes me to ##Vote: jaybrundage for now, if I find a better candidate I will switch. Going to go measure some temps and will return.
Your reasoning for jaybrundage vote is rubbish. Even if a player prefers a policy lynch on a lurker it's still utterly pointless to push a lynch on 0-poster. So jaybrundage not pushing for either of us does not make him any more or less scummy.
|
On February 09 2014 00:16 suki wrote: Does it bother you that EVERYONE is suspicious of Jonny Koshi?
Not everyone, and I'd fully expect some bussing in a situation like this anyway, so that's just WIFOM.
|
suki, so what do you make of this:
On February 08 2014 18:09 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 18:08 Aquanim wrote:On February 08 2014 18:02 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 08 2014 17:59 Aquanim wrote: Have you actually read LoneMeow's posts? I read the thread then reread the filters that stook out to me. It was suki, jayb and koshi. So you're saying you've scumread LoneMeow without actually looking at his posts, just waving your hand and say he's "lurking"? No, I read his posts and saw nothing of merit.
|
jaybrundage is becoming a fine candidate for next lynch with this massive absence. The fact that his stance on JonnyLaw has been quite ambivalent does not make things look any better for him.
|
On February 09 2014 05:46 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 05:45 LoneMeow wrote:suki, so what do you make of this: On February 08 2014 18:09 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 08 2014 18:08 Aquanim wrote:On February 08 2014 18:02 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 08 2014 17:59 Aquanim wrote: Have you actually read LoneMeow's posts? I read the thread then reread the filters that stook out to me. It was suki, jayb and koshi. So you're saying you've scumread LoneMeow without actually looking at his posts, just waving your hand and say he's "lurking"? No, I read his posts and saw nothing of merit. Not much. I also have a null read on you at the moment Haven't looked into you in depth yet.
I want you to play devil's advocate and explain why you think town-JonnyLaw would play like that.
|
On February 09 2014 05:53 suki wrote: One thing that bothers me and makes me lean towards Jonny as town is that both Jonny and Jay posted one case of note, and both those cases are on Koshi.
I .. don't think if both of them were scum they would plan it like that.
WIFOM. Also connections on unflipped players. Don't go there.
|
On February 09 2014 06:10 Koshi wrote: one just happened to claim blue.
You mean "kind of, maybe, perhaps, soft claim blue".
|
On February 09 2014 06:15 suki wrote: Is it townie to kind of, maybe, perhaps, soft claim blue either?
It's also in direct contrast to how he claimed last game.
It's not even clear that he intended it as claim, though. He'd better explain it at the next good opportunity.
|
JonnyLaw, in case you are actually town you absolutely MUST give us your updated reads as it looks like you're going to be lynched.
|
On February 09 2014 06:49 suki wrote: Jonny hasn't done anything yet.
Which suggests this is a good lynch. A town player should be fighting the lynch and providing all the information he can to help his team win the game after he's dead and confirmed.
|
|
On February 09 2014 07:17 suki wrote: Let's lynch slam/coag for being just as awful as jonny then. His play is completely different from last game, less activity, less reads, less interest.
The most damning thing about Alakaslam/Coagulation was the fact they did not comment on the JonnyLaw wagon at all. Good lynch.
|
Balla24's case on suki has good points. I'm on the fence with jaybrundage/suki.
Still think I'd prefer to lynch Alakaslam/Coagulation first though. My earlier points against Alakaslam still stand (and he definitely looks the worse after JonnyLaw flipped red for not discussing him at all). Coagulation has done nothing since coming to the thread to prove himself town.
There was definitely enough time to read JonnyLaw's filter and give some kind of read whether he agreed with the lynch or not, but he was content to just leave his "placeholder vote" there and lurk. That's not that I'd expect from a town player.
On February 09 2014 11:46 Coagulation wrote: oats / lonemeow / aqua / sprang somewhere in there oats or lonemeow are most likely imo but thats not based on much
Since it's "not based on much", it's based on something? How about explaining that to us for starters?
|
On February 09 2014 12:32 suki wrote: Reason I didn't push Jonny was because I wanted to see more from him.
This is... Silly.
You push people to force them to talk more.
You don't not lynch someone because "you want to see more from him" if he's scummy.
|
On February 10 2014 15:08 Coagulation wrote: because all game hes preaching how im auto scum and then he votes someone else.
This is really all you get from his 7-page filter? You do realize that if you play like this we will have to ensure you die before LYLO?
|
On February 10 2014 02:08 suki wrote: @Jay : My read on you is that I'm not sure. Confirmation bias says you're less likely to be scum because Jonny flipped scum. However that's WIFOM. I want to see how you play out Day 2 and then draw conclusions off of that.
Confirmation bias? Could you explain the logic here.
|
On February 10 2014 15:26 jaybrundage wrote:Hei lonemeow. Lets chat. What do you think of Oats, Hopeless1der and Sidesprang? What is your opinion of me and Suki right now? Is balla too townie to be townie. Should we kill him for the lulz + Show Spoiler +
Oats - null. Hate the fact that he doesn't give reasoning for his reads but he does that as town so... Hopeless1der - slight lean on town for effort. Sidesprang - no idea, need to re-read.
Between you and suki I'd prefer lynching suki right now, I'll get to the reasons when I finish reading things.
|
On February 10 2014 15:30 LoneMeow wrote: Between you and suki I'd prefer lynching suki right now, I'll get to the reasons when I finish reading things.
Right, so suki's thought process about JonnyLaw is just plain scummy. Note that at some points she claims JonnyLaw is her second lynch choice, yet she doesn't seem interested in pressuring him at all or trying to figure out his alignment. Then there's the "second chance" thing. You don't give second chances to players you think are scum.
I find your stance somewhat easier to see coming from a badly tunneled town.
suki, your stance on JonnyLaw before the lynch is really vague. Did you, or did you not, think he was scum?
|
On February 10 2014 16:01 Aquanim wrote: Well, there's a decent chance at least that Coag's scum and we're going to have to do this sooner or later I think.
##Vote: Coagulation
Meh. I've already stated why I thought Alakaslam looked bad before Coagulation replaced in, and nothing has really changed since then.
##Vote: Coagulation
|
On February 10 2014 16:09 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 16:04 LoneMeow wrote:On February 10 2014 15:30 LoneMeow wrote: Between you and suki I'd prefer lynching suki right now, I'll get to the reasons when I finish reading things. Right, so suki's thought process about JonnyLaw is just plain scummy. Note that at some points she claims JonnyLaw is her second lynch choice, yet she doesn't seem interested in pressuring him at all or trying to figure out his alignment. Then there's the "second chance" thing. You don't give second chances to players you think are scum. I find your stance somewhat easier to see coming from a badly tunneled town. suki, your stance on JonnyLaw before the lynch is really vague. Did you, or did you not, think he was scum? I agree whole heartily. If Coag is just useless townie (unlikely) who else do you think you would plug as scum.
Oatsmaster or sidesprang. I thought sidesprang looked somewhat towny earlier but I'm far less sure now.
|
On February 11 2014 01:54 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 16:13 LoneMeow wrote:On February 10 2014 16:09 jaybrundage wrote:On February 10 2014 16:04 LoneMeow wrote:On February 10 2014 15:30 LoneMeow wrote: Between you and suki I'd prefer lynching suki right now, I'll get to the reasons when I finish reading things. Right, so suki's thought process about JonnyLaw is just plain scummy. Note that at some points she claims JonnyLaw is her second lynch choice, yet she doesn't seem interested in pressuring him at all or trying to figure out his alignment. Then there's the "second chance" thing. You don't give second chances to players you think are scum. I find your stance somewhat easier to see coming from a badly tunneled town. suki, your stance on JonnyLaw before the lynch is really vague. Did you, or did you not, think he was scum? I agree whole heartily. If Coag is just useless townie (unlikely) who else do you think you would plug as scum. Oatsmaster or sidesprang. I thought sidesprang looked somewhat towny earlier but I'm far less sure now. Can you please provide reasons for why Oats and sidesprang are higher on your lynch list compared to others? Out of the two who looks more scummy to you?
Process of elimination. Aquanim and Balla24 seem town, I know I am town. Hopeless1der still looks somewhat town for his activity and the reasons I stated earlier. If we assume Coagulation is somehow town that leaves Oatsmaster/sidesprang as the last scum.
I suspect one of you/jaybrundage is scum but definitely not both.
|
suki, since you looked into sidesprang's play in previous games, would you agree that his play here looks similar to II Titanic Mafia?
|
On February 11 2014 02:43 suki wrote:mm.. I will have to disagree. I'd like to hear your side, what you think are similar. Here are my thoughts: II Titanic: He puts people on his watchlist for not having a desire to scum hunt, being inconsistent, not saying things he likes. + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2013 21:57 sidesprang wrote:Ok so I've been trying to read filters to find some scum. A few people caught my interest. VayneAuthority: Seems to have very little content, and frankly not even a desire to hunt scum at all. I got the impression that he was an experienced mafia player and would thus expect more of him. He is basically tunnelvisioning on the easiest target and dont really provide much outside of that. He said he was memory banking stuff and would come back later day 1. I hope he will provide something else than just slam before the day is over. ##Vote VayneAuthorityAlakaslam: A lot have been said about him allready, he stated before the game that he would play like this, so I will give him that. The question is just can we actually understand what he is trying to tell us. I kinda feel there is something there and if we crack the code we might be able to understand him, maybe it will ger easier if we get a few flips. But however if he is scum it will be very dangerous cause he can just send us on a wild goosechase and still just act like hes doing now and we will be non the wiser. I feel his playstyle forces us to kill him if we dont wanna deal with him, or use a cop check on him if we wanna keep him alive. Unless someone feels they can actually get something out of him ? JarJarDrinks : I dont like this guy atm, might just be because he went after me. But in his filter he says he finds zeroing in on details scummy, and thats what he's been doing half his post. And his case against me with the "anti-town" thing I just find very very weak. I kinda get the feeling he's trying to pick some low hanging fruit with the way he's saying "hey look at this". Purpletrator: Not really said anything I liked, fillered a lot first half and the fucked off. Said he would be back with more, hopefully that is soon. People I like as town atm is Holy for providing a lot of analysis and in general bringing up good points, if he by some odd chance are mafia we should be able to nail him later days because he got loads of info out there. I also like kush and Xata, I in general agree with a lot of what they are saying and they are playing very pro town imo. I know some people wanted to lynch me, I felt I explained myself allready. So if you want me to elaborate you need to specify on what. Random fluff: My name is Sidesprang, not Sidespring. And in Norway we are in general not bad in english, and I hope my posts dont reek bad english On December 14 2013 22:41 sidesprang wrote:My reasons for voting on Vayne D1: He does nothing, tunnelvisions on slam, the easiest safest target to go on in the start. Just a policy lynch, if it goes through it dont tell us anything about Vayne regardless of how it flips. N1: Tells us day 2 is when the real game will start. D2: Does nothing despite the real game having started, goes on the easiest safest target to go on again LSB. Dont provide any insight. Is more disruptive than helpfull to the town. That is why I wanna lynch Vayne. He is like an Day 1 Alakaslam just without speaking in code. The fact that If we lynch him we can learn from his flip, is just a bonus. If you read my filter and put the pieces togheter you could have seen this. But I guess I also could have put this case togheter when making the vote. Did not really take me that long His self defense is straightforward and non-apologetic. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2013 20:07 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 13:35 LSB wrote:General comments: purpletrator is being incredibly defensive and showing off as paranoid to me xatalos has been powerplaying quite hard day 1, and typically lynches of major town voices go badly day 1. Push PostPersonally I think the most important post so far is this On December 10 2013 10:10 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote: Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
--------
About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
-------
@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
I really really do not like this post as an entry post: A) Sheeps everthing I have mentioned on Cora. B) Uses a big chunk of his entry post saying why cora is displaying mafia associated traits but won't vote him yet? C) Mentions Xatalos in a completely non-inquisitive manner, no justification on a read based on Xan's posts or anything. Sidesprang, what do you think of Xatalos so far? He has been pressured quite hard this game, were his responses more town alignment indicative to you? I've already mentioned how I felt the initial read of Cora was incredibly forced. This can easily attributed to Holyflare's overeagerness. What is important to keep an eye out are the bandwagoners. Or the "bait and switch" approach. Make a flimsy case, wait for someone to quickly jump on your plan, and finger the bandwagoner as mafia. The logic behind this is that very few townies would be willing to push a bad lynch, but a mafia would be willing to push many lynches on greenies regarless of the contents of the lynches. On December 10 2013 11:13 sidesprang wrote:On December 10 2013 10:10 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote: Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
--------
About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
-------
@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
I really really do not like this post as an entry post: A) Sheeps everthing I have mentioned on Cora. B) Uses a big chunk of his entry post saying why cora is displaying mafia associated traits but won't vote him yet? C) Mentions Xatalos in a completely non-inquisitive manner, no justification on a read based on Xan's posts or anything. Sidesprang, what do you think of Xatalos so far? He has been pressured quite hard this game, were his responses more town alignment indicative to you? A) I might be blind but I dont see you mention everything I mentioned, but if I still find it scummy would I not be allowed to say it ? B) I don't see a reason for voting anyone yet, he is deffo looking scummy but It's still early in D1. C) The point about Xatalos was a plea to the Town that people should rather focus on more quality over quantity when posting. Can I not do that in a non-inquisitive manner? I said I just used him as an example. About Xatalos, I deffo dont like his opening. He goes after Cora and Kush which I think its fine, but also goes after Slam and Spag which had barely spoken and had not said anything scummy. So Artanis evaluation of him fits nicely, tho I wont say he is mafia because of it. He might just do it to start discussion, as he says he likes all the action happning here. I dont and will keep an eye on him. And his defence was kinda just meta, "saying that is how he plays", and I dont know the guy. Might be true might not be. I dont like meta defences and its another thing that will make me keep an eye on him. Indeed he continues his bandwagony attitude. Although there have only been two posts from him, bait and switch has a 100% success rate (n = 1), and I might as well go with it. I am seriously concerned about his willingness to support lynches without contributing much personal insights. ##unvote##Vote; sidesprang Okay I see I'm off to a rocky start. You might say I'm bandwagoning because I did not have any insight that I came up with myself, but it was the only read I had. Would you rather I stay silent? And I'm not willing to push for a lynch on Cora and Xatalos, I thought I made it clear I did in no way find them scummy enough to vote on yet. I dont like to fling my vote around without justification, and if I did so it would only make me look scummy. And for the second post I dont really see how you can say im bandwagoning, I was asked a question and I answered, I had no intentions of going after Xatalos at all. And now that grack and rayn basically said it was normal play for it. I will just assume that he inteded to create some discussion. He comments on the popular targets of the day. This example is a day 2 post: + Show Spoiler +On December 14 2013 22:04 sidesprang wrote: I see LSB is a very popular target ATM, tbh I'm a bit worried about lynching him, mainly for two reasons.
1. His play so far, has pretty much just been tunneling one guy at the time, trying to bandwagon me for the most part. The problem is, if he is town or mafia its just bad play in general. And its hard to see the difference between bad town and bad mafia imo.
2. And pretty much whatever he flips I dont really see us learning much, which I don't like. I could get with this lynch D1, but a misslynch at this point where we gain little information will be dangerous.
Artanis is another popular target, but I dont really see him very scummy. Just by reading his filter my gut just say's towny. He was also one of the few that defended Cora, and he also got some heat for doing so. His defence felt honest and towny, and I'm not sure a mafia would do that.
Coag is a guy I think we should all take a look at and pressure into giving some oppinions. His filter ATM is just a bunch of one liners with hardly any meaning. He jumps on LSB without really explaining anything, or giving any personal insight. Pandain the guy he replaced did not really do anything either to look towny. Anyone have some history with this guy they can share ?
In this game... His reasons for voting people in the beginning are largely meta: + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 18:44 sidesprang wrote: k, dont wanna give out town / nullreads tho cause I don't see the town benefit in doing so.
Currently I got three people on my watchlist.
JayB: This guy was an easy townread for me last game. ATM I'm not getting that at all, he made loads of bad posts so far, which don't make you scum. But I'm not getting the same easy read as last game which makes me wanting to see more contributions from him.
Jonny: A lot of the same as JayB. Had this guy as an easy townread in my Newbie game. Not getting the same vibe atm. He got a Balla case coming up tho, so let's see where that goes.
Oats: He sheeped onto JayB, and seems certain he is scum. Without adding his own thoughts. He was also quick to jump on Suki when aqua mentioned her, which I found wierd seeing how certain he acted against JayB.
Later on, his reasons for voting people seem to be based solely on Jonny flipping: + Show Spoiler +On February 09 2014 22:14 sidesprang wrote:Ok, so from the lynch. Coag and Suki both are looking bad, and have been talked about a lot. Suki as I said is hard for me, she completly fooled me for the most part in Newbie mafia L1, and i'm starting to get scared she is doing it again. I had her as null / leaning town earlier. But her hard attack on Jay looks way worse now that Jonny flipped scum. I mean most of us thought Jonny was good D1 lynch, and the fact that Jay blueclaimed but she stilled thought he was a better lynch I find a off. Yes the claim was wierd, but he did the same shit last game. The Slam / Coag team looks bad mostly for his lack of mentioning of Jonny. Which I wish we could have questioned Slam about. Sadly unless Coag for some reason decides to actually play mafia I doubt we will get much usefull information from him. Might be the best vig shot if we got one imo. Two others that really did not mention Jonny either is Hopeless and Oats, and I think we should look at them for tomorrow aswell. Hopeless on Jonny:Only post before vote where jonny is mentioned: Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 01:29 Hopeless1der wrote:On February 08 2014 00:57 Koshi wrote: Hopeless what do you think of Oats? At a skim, he goes from JayB->JonnyLaw->me->Suki->sidesprang. Can't sit still, pursuing everything he sees for the most part. He completely glances over JonnyLaw and me, but volunteered reads/reasons for the other 3. I think he's town. The vote: Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 23:44 Hopeless1der wrote:On February 08 2014 23:29 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 23:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 08 2014 23:02 Koshi wrote: You never sheep. Was is dis? I sheep all the time, I just dont say im sheeping Not at all. Did.you agree with Hopeless read on you?How sure are you about jonny red flip? Of course he disagrees with me, he's scum Koshi. /sarcasm I may not be back before deadline, family stuff. I'll try to keep updated by phone ##Unvote ##Vote: JonnyLaw Oats on Jonny:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 11:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Johnny is my second pick for scum but I doubt that him and jay are on the same team due to the pretty much exact same push on koshi. Thoughts?
Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 19:17 Oatsmaster wrote: I gave the first analysis on suki, the only thing I sheeped was aqua asking about suki.
how is suki town because she totally ignores jayb's case and thinks he is too tryhard and therefore scum? URGHGHHH
fine. ##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Firstly his scumreads dont make sense. He summarizes all our filters and doesnt say anything about how it makes us scum, he isnt reading in depth at all to know that I think johnny is town and his townread on suki doesnt make sense either. bleh its hard to phrase but I dont get the feeling like he is questioning anything at all in this game. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 11:14 Oatsmaster wrote:Hmm johnny says he is gonna post a case on balla. I wanna see how that goea but currently I could lynch Hes like really angry. Angry people are scummy people The Vote: Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 22:58 Oatsmaster wrote: ##unvote bleh. sheep time ##vote johnny I don't really know hopeless playstyle, and I mentioned earlier that Oats can pull this off as either allignment. And now that Jonny flipped scum I'm getting extra worried. Sadly their play this game is mostly short post with little content, so they are hard to read, atleast for me. For now I would think both scum lies in theese four. Anyone have input on oats / hopeless? Don't feel they have been discussed much yet. On February 10 2014 17:17 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 12:30 suki wrote: ##vote Coagulation
I see that Oats has posted a bunch. I want to hear from Sidesprang. Specifically these questions:
1. Who is your number one lynch at the moment for Day 2 and why? 2. Who is scummy to you? 3. Comments on the Jonny lynch and the events leading up to it.
I'll comment on Oats in the morning when I'm not tired and I really hope to see something from Sidesprang. I would prefer to lynch Oats, reasons being. He hardly mentioned jonny, had no reasons for voting him. Has two suspect townreads (hopeless / JayB). He is also not being very helpfull to town. People who is leaning scum to me is Oats, You, Coag, Hopeless. Pretty much in that order I think. Koshi and Balla lead the lynch, they were too me the two guys looking most towny. Koshi prolly died because of it. 3 guys have votes that they pretty much did not explain. You had Jonny as second lynch (I think), but for some reason was very reluctant to get JayB lynched instead. I feel usualy town when having two scumreads are happy lynching either atleast when its such a landslide in votes. The fact that you are no dropping him completly for the day while having gone that hard for him I don't understand. Anyhow, off too school. I'll check in when I got time. He's not going after people for being inconsistent, or for not contributing (see his soft defense of slam/coag), and there's no mention of whether he thinks people are thinking the same as he is. His defense this game is complete dismissal rather than going through the points and explaining himself: + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 17:56 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 15:27 suki wrote: Fine, he's not 'objectively' scum. There are more points against him for being scum than the points that I have against sidesprang which is largely a meta read. Quoting this since shorter If you want to apply meta read on me, then do not use my almost 4 year old games. It wont get you anywhere good. You are correct that my mindset and play this game is different. Last month i've been coached and I've shadowed, both for first time. So I do hope I picked up something, that will hopefully improve my play. And he hasn't addressed any of the recent allegations against him at all. And of course he didn't really comment on Jonny. He is commenting on Coag today though. - - - Sidesprang was blue that game. I think his play doesn't really match. Would like to hear your thoughts, LoneMeow.
The point about him using far more meta seems somewhat valid.
The defense point I'd say doesn't fully hold water because the attack on him was very different.
And he did not actually comment on the eventual D1 lynch at all in II Titanic, but then again the Spaghetticus train happened late into the day and he seems to not have been around.
All in all, pretty these points you made are pretty inconclusive.
I'd like to point out that you changed your read on him earlier from scum to null based partially on II Titanic meta:
On February 08 2014 06:02 suki wrote:Sidesprang's meta: + Show Spoiler +Cop in II TitanicOn December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote: Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
--------
About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
-------
@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
This is pretty much his first post in the game. Notice he writes a short thing about policy and then starts scum hunting. Most of his posts in this game are scum hunting, but I didn't find many difficult questions in this one. Town in Newbie Mini Mafia LIOn January 06 2014 08:10 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 07:47 TheChyz wrote: Why so eager to have people help you achieve your goals? Maybe they don't agree with them. If onlywonderboy is right, then your rules help you if you are scum as well since you seem to be very active in which lynching lurkers would help your cause of staying alive. Also having people fight can cause confusion in the town. So I don't see a reason why people should just help you achieve your goals. You don't see a reason why people should help Bella with creating a "tough environment for mafia to hide in and lynch some mafia" ? Starts the game off with a pointed question trying to find TheChyz's motives. On January 06 2014 08:59 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 08:23 Balla24 wrote: Let's hear some opinions on some people. Sidesprang what do you think of OWB and thechyz so far? etc etc
Be analytical. I'm already feeling a bit weird with thechyz but it's preliminary obviously and i'm waiting for him to post some more. @ onlywonderboyatm he is just null for me. from his PoV he has only stated obvious things so far. It not really contributing atm, but its to early to fault him for that. And he does say he is going to more active and contribute with meaningfull analysis, so as long as he atleast tries to do this we should be able to read him in the future. @ thechyz, I don't like him atm. In his first post he says he agrees with you and dont mind lynching lurkers to discourage lurking. But then in his second post he says he see no reason to why people should help you achivieving that same agenda he just agreed with. Feels very much like a contradiction to me. This is his third post in the game and he's pointing out contradictions. On January 07 2014 15:33 sidesprang wrote: @theDragoon Who would you vote for now and why ?
Also, why did you change your mind and wanted to defend yourself afterall ? Questioning TheDragoon who was the top lynch candidate of the day. sidesprang was wary that the lynch on theDragoon was going to smoothly and tried getting information from theDragoon before the lynch. Miller in TL Mafia XXHe spends most of the game apologizing for his low post quantity. scum in TL Mafia XVIIILike sidesprang pointed out, this scum game is from 4 years ago, something that I didn't think about as I was just looking through past games and not noticing the date. Regardless, I'll include some posts here to show where my line of thought came from in my case that I wrote up. On February 14 2010 12:00 sidesprang wrote: I definatly agree that we should not lynch someone based on day one clues, unless someone can make a foolproof case. But they should definatly be discussed and looked through, cause they could help us put the pieces toghter at a later day.
And it also gives us something to talk about, and im pretty sure the more posts there are the more information one could gather from this game and put it togheter. policy talk to start the game On February 15 2010 00:30 sidesprang wrote: L's point about beeing 20 mafia and that it will take a long time before we get two different clues on a single mafia i dont really think is true.
Last game i was in there was 8 mafia and they had 3kp. meaning at day 3 we in the worst case scenario had 1 mafia with double clues.
In this game there is 20 mafia and 6 KP, meaning in the worst case we would have 4 double clues at day 4. But you with there beeing possible 12 mafia kills and 2 lynces one should think/hope that some mafia would die, and we get double clues at day 3 again.
Two posts later, setup talk. On February 16 2010 08:05 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 07:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 16 2010 07:44 redtooth wrote:On February 16 2010 06:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Spamming the thread full of what shit? Posting an objective compilation of everyones arguments? Compiling voting history? Defending myself when redtooth and Ace accused me of being mafia? Finally getting Bill Murray to justify his statements? Don't put me on the same level as BM TT___TT
I guess for the time being Empyrean is our best bet. Ver did a great job of pointing out the inconsistency in his pro-town/mafia behavior from past games and the clue connection is just very very very very strong.
Redtooth did a decent job of defending himself, or at least why it doesn't make sense that he and Ace are both in the same mafia family. His argument for him and ace not being in different mafia families doesn't make sense. "Why would mafia defend a mafia from another family/not mafia"
Unless he wanted to discourage clue analysis because he fears it will hurt his mafia family, or wanted to defend Ace because regardless of Ace's role his argumentation is successfully dividing the town. If redtooth is mafia, he has no way of knowing Ace's role anyway, so saying "i wouldn't defend another families mafia" makes no sense because he doesn't know who those people are. I really doubt the mafia are going to ONLY defend one another, look what happened when I got lynched in the last game. By analyzing who I defended/supported/whose clues I ignored the entire rest of the mafia family was caught.
I'm not accusing you of being mafia redtooth, I'm just pointing out that the argument falls short.
I'm voting for L because so far his arguments have been extremely consistent, he's been trying to get the town moving/discouraging waste posts, and providing excellent clue analysis. Redtooth shouldn't have a problem with this, don't you want L as the other elected role anyway? you're right. actually that's exactly what i want you to do. i want L as mayor and i want to be pardoner. no vigilantes means pardoner is very very powerful if he is mafia. as for my argument in why it's sort of illogical for ace and me to be mafia in separate families is because consider the alternative: i could have silently held back and not brought attention to myself instead of being in the middle of controversy between the town. knowing previous games, L vs Ace was going to become a shitstorm whether i stepped in or not. instead i chose to argue a point, blew my top (admittedly more than a few times), and got into a position where my alignment was pretty damn clear. and if Ace isn't on my team (which would be the case if i was mafia and he wasn't in my family) then i would want him dead regardless of what role/alignment he was. and guys i've said this before but i genuinely believed L was full of shit. now i only think he is half shitty but i've expressed my disdain for day 1 clues enough already. so it's not about mafia ONLY defending each other. it's about a mafia risking his own neck to defend a good player that's not on his team. THAT is something that doesn't make sense. so if it doesn't make sense then that means i'm not mafia. yay we are finally caught up. Fair point, now that is a good argument. Why are we assuming day 1 clues are bad based off previous games? There are 20 mafia. It's highly unlikely that mafia will be getting 6 kills a night, I'd say 4 MAYBE 5 is more likely. Why? 1) Overlapping kills. The mafia are simply going to hit the same targets. Let's say, for example, Player X is green. He's been painted red by a lot of people and thus might be hit by both families. This could happen with anyone who was painted red but is not mafia of either family. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if even 2 kills overlap. 2) Smart medics. While mafia might avoid really big targets early on because they will be protected by medics, medics who are able to anticipate mafia goals will help reduce kills. With 20 mafia, let's assume we get 5 hits a day. We don't see overlapping clues until DAY SIX DAY SIXIf everyone feels uncomfortable with Day 1 clue analysis just based on previous experience, I guess there isnt really anything I can say. But let's please not ignore clues on Day 2. If someone makes an accusation based on clues at you, provide an alternative. Simply saying "day 1 clues are trash" isn't enough, especially when you aren't addressing the point of just how many mafia there are in this game and how strong clues need to be. Also redtooth, I'd like you to clear something up for me. I found a mildly disturbing inconsistency in your arguments. While L was painting Ace red based on clues you said clue analysis on day 1 is trash; that's fine. You also said the clues pointing to ace specifically were shaky and not well thought-out. Then merely a few posts later you said that the clues pointing toward Ace were so obvious/numerous he can't be mafia. Was there a change of heart here? what happened? Man your so wrong about the overlapping clues thing. If we dont see overlapping clues before day 6, it is because the mafia only hits the town. And that is not realistic. The mafia hitting 1/3 each lynch seems realistic if not to low to me. Then we have 6 dead by day 3. And already overlapping clues. Altho the mafia would prolly have overlapping hits. But my point still stands. We will see overlapping hits WAY before day 6, and if we dont we're allready doomed cause we've lost half our town The next post, more setup talk. On February 21 2010 12:10 sidesprang wrote: i changed my vote to quickstriker, but i dont see why we should not double lynch tomorrow. Since i feel we have alot of good clues to work of, and we will get more.
So you're gonna have to give more reasons for me to take away my double lynch vote. No reason for his vote. On February 26 2010 16:59 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 16:00 Scamp wrote: I'd also appreciate it if Sidesprang and Tredmasta would speak up. Especially Sidesprang in order to explain his last vote. First, my votes are not set in stone. If so i would not have voted so early. But its the weekend coming up and i know im definatly going out on saturday(and the voting closes 1AM(or something like that) in norway. So i had to vote something in case i wont have the time later, ofc i could have abstained but i think scamp is mafia and that L might be and he voting scamp, because of the cluelink towards you. voting L, because he has lead this town on so many wrong turns. And i don't see any real proof of him beeing non mafia, and if he is mafia he has gotten away with far to much allready. reasons for not voting johnnyspaz who i think is definatly mafia, let the other mafia team kill him. And to the clue link from malongo, im not really sure what aristocracy of money means but for the rest of the first bold sentence i feel that is a huge strech. And im not decafchickens friend And the bold part number two. That has to be a clue to johhnyspaz, i mean he gets turn into a pincushion. And he has a picture of sonic the hedgehog. Basically this is his only scum hunting effort in the game. Again, his filter was super short, but the thing that I noticed is the lack of scumhunting compared to his other town games. But I missed something big in my meta analysis.. That is, sidesprang was scum in the original Shadowed game. Scum in Shadowed MafiaOn February 04 2014 10:14 sidesprang wrote:Lol wtf game started today afterall. Anyhow regarding policy shit, not much to say, think it's covered allready. But yeh, look for content instead not postcount. We do NOT want ppl spamming useless shit. Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 09:47 jaybrundage wrote:Jonny as you have had alot of experience with Balla as scum how would you say he plays as a scum player. Whats his tells if you will Guess your not in the database either huh jonny XD If your gonna compile your games you might as well make a post in the mafia database with them listed and a quick review :o Why did you want Jonny to out Ballas scumtells in the thread this early before Balla even had a chance to play into them ? On February 04 2014 12:29 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 11:25 jaybrundage wrote:On February 04 2014 10:14 sidesprang wrote:Lol wtf game started today afterall. Anyhow regarding policy shit, not much to say, think it's covered allready. But yeh, look for content instead not postcount. We do NOT want ppl spamming useless shit. On February 04 2014 09:47 jaybrundage wrote:Jonny as you have had alot of experience with Balla as scum how would you say he plays as a scum player. Whats his tells if you will Guess your not in the database either huh jonny XD If your gonna compile your games you might as well make a post in the mafia database with them listed and a quick review :o Why did you want Jonny to out Ballas scumtells in the thread this early before Balla even had a chance to play into them ? Sidesprung you asked me a question I responded. There is alot going in the thread right now. I don't just want to see content I want to see some post count too. People are conversing, poking at one another a back and forth. You make one question at me and you disappeared. Don't you have anything else to comment on, or respond to my post or make a comment on another post or give your opinion. Anything really. Dropping one post and leaving the thread is not the environment town should be fostering. Thru discussion like i was talking about earlier we can learn other alignments and discover ulterior motives. Ill give you somethings to post on. What do you think of Balla's early vote on LM? Was it appropriate given LM"s posts? What do you think of my response to your post? Does what I say made sense? Do you agree that I should have questioned Jonny about Balla's scum game or should I have not said anything? Why do you think Suki poke at Jonnys two opinions? Do you think Suki got defensive after Balla inquired about her post? Why do you think Suki would post about jonny if not trying to discern if hes mafia or not? (These questions go out to Suki as well?) Who is your towniest read at the moment? Who do you think is most likely scum? Do you believe in policy lynching lurkers? What is the lowest amount someone should be expected to post? Firstly its Sidesprang, not sidesprung or whatever else ppl think it is. I don't mind Balla voting for LM, because I think if he keeps on playing like this he will hopefully be easy to read. As for why he voted I dont really agree with. LM's stance on koshi's "plan" is kinda like mine. Judge people based on content not number of posts, and also only reason to lynch lurkers is if there are no better options available. I liked your response, you had a reason for asking it and you had logic backing it up. Answer felt honest. Tho I do not agree with your logic. It's nice and all generating discussion, but I dont think going over ppl's meta this early is wise. As I think it would be harder to use meta against players if it's been discussed in thread first. The whole suki / jonny deal requires more thought if I wanna read something out of it. Aka atm I don't really know, and I will read more up on that tomorrow when I got better time. I got some people whom I feel are playing protown atm, but I see no reason sharing townreads at this point. I don't have scumreads atm, tho I got a bit interested in Suki since she disliked your post. A post I liked cause you are doing what I think you should be doing with lurkers (get them to post, so you can read them, not lynch them blindly). People should post enough to be readable and enough to get their scumreads out. I don't belive in a set number. his first two posts in the game. Basically... He doesn't spend time on policy talk and he starts hunting right away. So yeah. Taking this into account my case on sidesprang doesn't hold any water. Based on the games that I linked in my original post, I think that my conclusions were reasonable - policy talk in his scum game and scum hunting in his town games. But taking into account the previous Shadowed game where he was scum it's obvious he's changed (read improved) his scum game quite a bit. Anyways, I suppose I'm null on sidesprang for now. I'll take a closer look at him later.
What's different now so that the same meta points at him being scum?
|
Also, what besides meta makes you think he's scum? You earlier quoted one post as "pretty weak", what else is there?
|
On February 10 2014 13:01 Oatsmaster wrote: sidesprang who my vote is on. LM also pretty scummy methinks.
Please explain what about my play makes you think I'm scummy?
|
On February 10 2014 17:17 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 12:30 suki wrote: ##vote Coagulation
I see that Oats has posted a bunch. I want to hear from Sidesprang. Specifically these questions:
1. Who is your number one lynch at the moment for Day 2 and why? 2. Who is scummy to you? 3. Comments on the Jonny lynch and the events leading up to it.
I'll comment on Oats in the morning when I'm not tired and I really hope to see something from Sidesprang. I would prefer to lynch Oats, reasons being. He hardly mentioned jonny, had no reasons for voting him. Has two suspect townreads (hopeless / JayB). He is also not being very helpfull to town. People who is leaning scum to me is Oats, You, Coag, Hopeless. Pretty much in that order I think. Koshi and Balla lead the lynch, they were too me the two guys looking most towny. Koshi prolly died because of it. 3 guys have votes that they pretty much did not explain. You had Jonny as second lynch (I think), but for some reason was very reluctant to get JayB lynched instead. I feel usualy town when having two scumreads are happy lynching either atleast when its such a landslide in votes. The fact that you are no dropping him completly for the day while having gone that hard for him I don't understand. Anyhow, off too school. I'll check in when I got time.
There's a few people you don't mention here as either town or scum. What do you think about their alignments and why?
|
On February 11 2014 15:11 sidesprang wrote: I'm town on
Balla Aqua JayB
Balla because he lead the lynch, and I think his play in general have been pretty much towny through and through. He is also posting way more than he is doing in his scumgames (tho I think he is aware of this meta, so might not be that much of a tell).
Aqua was also early on the lynch, and made his own case for it. I like his posts in general, feels like he is really trying to solve the game.
JayB is town because his blueclaim and his N1 play.
Can you take some quotes from his N1 play and explain why you think those make him town?
|
On February 11 2014 16:43 Aquanim wrote: You seriously have a strong enough townread on Coag to be certain he's not flipping scum?
The way I see it, if there's even the faintest possibility he flips scum we should lynch him now - because he doesn't even count as a townie. If we get to LYLO with coag, we've already lost.
On that basis, even if he's town we lose nothing by lynching him today.
This is pretty much how I see things aswell. And I had a scum read on Alakaslam before he was replaced.
|
On February 11 2014 17:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Everyone currently voting for him like hopeless and jay
So I'm irrationally mad also? For voting him because I had a strong scum read on Alakaslam and didn't think Coagulation had done anything since coming in to show he's town? I don't quite follow.
|
On February 11 2014 17:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Why are you lynching coag that makes him scum other than not showing that he is town?
Because I think Alakaslam was scum before he replaced out.
We know he has no problem phone posting utter nonsense without even reading the thread as town. He didn't here. He's incredibly vague about reads, summarizes without conclusion. Uses truly terrible reasoning why jaybrundage is scum. Does not comment on JonnyLaw at all, despite JonnyLaw being the leading wagon when he's around the thread.
|
On February 11 2014 17:30 Oatsmaster wrote: LM, is that referring to coag or alak? I wanna know what makes coag scun
The scummiest thing about Coagulation is how he does not provide any real justification for his reads. And how he did not comment on the lynch wagon on D1 at all, with just a "placeholder vote" on JonnyLaw. Then there's the martyr, which pretty much begins without any real reason. Despite how he claims "seems like you guys have already decided to lynch me based on slams actions" it was by not majority of players who were pushing Alakaslam as scum at that point.
|
Balla24, how does sidesprang's D1 posting fit with the idea that he's scum? There's nothing super convincing in your case, I'm not sold yet.
|
Meh, Coagulation's meta really fits him being town.
##Unvote
|
On February 12 2014 05:43 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 05:32 LoneMeow wrote: Balla24, how does sidesprang's D1 posting fit with the idea that he's scum? There's nothing super convincing in your case, I'm not sold yet. His day1 is so null. In every way. Null in the fact that reading it doesn't give me a read one way or another. Null in the sense that all his reads were basically null except for town reads and eventually Jonny. If you look at it, you basically have no idea who he thinks is scum until he votes Jonny because whenever he calls someone scummy he's like "but then there's this that looks good and this -> so I don't know what to think". The fact that he can't stay consistent in day2 from his day1 is bad. That's the important part. Trying to lynch Coag for slam being scummy even though he never called Slam scum is pretty bad.
Now that you say it, I see it too.
The only thing he has said about Alakaslam before the lynch is:
On February 09 2014 02:41 sidesprang wrote: Alakaslam: I buy that he has been busy with work and whatnot. As I don't think scum!slam would lurk in any way I dont see a reason for lying about it. That being said I dont think his enterance is very good. Starts by complaining about how Balla / Suki trolled early game, which has been pointed out is something he is very capable aswell. And it was obviously something that was prewritten before Balla got the roles. Why bring that shit up again, its a null tell. His points are just fluff. He then says he is going to try some filters, but looks like he only read JayB, maybe the easiest one to pick on at the time.
@Slam Did you read up on the rest of the players? Do you got any other reads? What are your thoughts on Jonny?
I wish I was more confident on this lynch.
##Vote: sidesprang
|
This general lack of interest in this lynch gives me bad vibes.
|
Uh huh. Wow. Yeah! Only one more.
|
I am not at all sold about jaybrundage being town.
Part 1: jaybrundage and JonnyLaw
On February 08 2014 02:03 jaybrundage wrote:In regards to balla's case on jonny. The first point it just seemed like jonny noticed your percentage thing. Assuming you were going to continue using that stuff. Looks like he saw you using it and assumed the post wasn't so serious. More of a null tell I would think. On the second point. I did mention him in my post. Part of the reason of me changing my playstyle was because Jonny was tunneling me so hard last game. I think he recognizes that he was tunneling a townie tho and felt a bit bad for it and is more hesitant to call me scum. I would agree with you that Jonny calling me scummy. But not going after me was weird. That does seem off. And the quotes where jonny goes after people he thinks are making excuses. But not going after me. Does seem off. Guess we will see how he continues to play. + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 13:39 Balla24 wrote:Alright, moving on. What do you guys think about JonnyLaw? I'm very weary on him. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:25 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
@suki, that implies that you think jaybrundage is town, even though I am clearly 2.5% less likely to be scum than he is. I appreciate the effort you put into that post man. It's funny but you're trying to force it into being more distracting than Koshi's post last game. What the fuck? The post he quotes here is completely irrelevant to my probability mafia post. This was literally the first time I was not being trolly in this game. I know the things I was referring to were trolly and joky, but I wanted to start the game at that point, and they were interesting enough initial thoughts to question their motives behind it. Why does he think i'm forcing anything and distracting anything. That was literally the start of the first discussion of the game yet he doesn't even really read it. He even moves into quoting one of my more trolly posts afterwards ("I declare myself king") and calls it funny, even though it was way more distracting than anything else I did. Moving on: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:40 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. Overall you had a good game. You had one comment early that tripped my scum radar. I think along the lines of "in newer games people need motivation to post." Then you proceeded to try and take over the town. I felt like you were scum trying to take over the town. Bah, you should have been scum. There were plenty moments where jonny talks about something irrelevant and not helpful to the game with the facade that it is "getting the game started" and "not talking about policy". This post here could have literally happened in post-game and pre-game, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. There is absolutely NO relevance to jay's alignment in this game. In fact, all it does is help jay if he's scum. There's more moments like this, specifically the Aqua stuff. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:33 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:58 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. You're making so many excuses for no reason. Why would you tryharding last game have anything to do with this game or how tough it's going to be? In fact, what are you trying to say when you say you "tryharded the shit out of last game"? What, are you implying you're not going to tryhard the shit out of this game, why not? Scumhunting is scumhunting. Sure there's not much to talk about on day1 but that's where you make stuff to talk about and then scumhunt from there. There has been no effort to do that. Instead, all you have done is called my first post "icky", which was 100% totally intended to do just that, get people to start talking and scumhunting from the get go which should be pretty obvious to everybody, but for some reason you decided it was icky and then make excuses for what I can only assume is going to be bad scumhunting on day 1. On February 07 2014 07:32 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
@suki, that implies that you think jaybrundage is town, even though I am clearly 2.5% less likely to be scum than he is. That first post. Ugh I'm still feeling icky from it. Your first post was obviously pre-written. It's not "icky" but it's not alignment indicative. You'd post the same thing as scum or town. The sections you highlighted in his posts make me feel wary. They're scummy sure. Does that make him scum? On February 07 2014 08:01 Balla24 wrote:On February 07 2014 07:51 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:47 Koshi wrote: Mine is very real. Super real.
you feel off. I feel off. What a non committal post. After you say your vote is real. You make a terrible comment like that. I think what you mean to say. Is that you think I'm scum. BUT your scum so you know that not to be true and your waffling like crazy. Because even when you say the vote is real. Your very next line shows you have no conviction about it. Koshi is scum. I caught one :D In fact, this post is so very scummy. If you are town, your reaction to these "fake votes" would be completely different. You would be confused and curious as to what they find scummy about what you said, or you would just think that it's totally trolly and ignore it. Here you find it is scummy? What cause he thinks you feel off? Your response should have been "what feels off about me then oh wise one koshi" and not "you're scum". I actually agree with Jay here. I don't give a shit about votes an hour into the game. Here he says that he finds Jay's excuse-making and self-doubt "weary" but doesn't think it makes him scum (or at least that's what I gather from him asking "does that make him scum?" after literally saying "it's scummy sure", which is really weird in itself). This is in direct contrast to what I know of town jonny. The guy LOVES to pick at this stuff. + Show Spoiler [Quotes from jonny town games] +On January 20 2014 11:40 JonnyLaw wrote: Ve's full of shit.
He was this active last game. Making excuses for his posting now.
##vote visceral eyes
On January 06 2014 15:21 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 15:13 theDragoon wrote: @Balla24
About the random accusation thing, a bunch of people started ##voting random people. It's my first time playing this so I'm assuming doing that in the thread that early in the game just seems really random to me when there isn't much information to go on. I assume that by ##voting that they are serious with those accusations, so excuse me if doing that randomly in the thread is something that's very common and isn't meant to be taken 100% serious.
Also, on Day_Walker he seems to have good intentions.Calling out TheChyz as the only possible scum on the list seems like a bandwagon hop to me but TheChyz has been suspicious so it's something I agree with. His read on me I find is a bit unnecessary and does not really prove that I am a townie. I'm sure everyone playing this game is not afraid to disagree and standing up for yourself is something everyone does. He might just be including me on the list because I've posted a bit but his reasoning behind me as a townie really has no foundation. You're not saying anything with authority. You're hesitant and making excuses throughout that post. What are your opinions so far? I don't care how other people feel about you or if it's your first game. That doesn't matter. On January 06 2014 15:30 JonnyLaw wrote:I'll be on tomorrow at a more reasonable time. At this point we have three players who've posted nothing. Fine, we have 30+ hours till day ends. I hate this post and generally everything in Asuna's filter. Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 14:16 Asuna wrote:On January 06 2014 08:38 Balla24 wrote: Thread is dying fast... need backup ASAP.
I also am not too fond of Asuna's entry, but there's nothing really scummy about it. I just feel you have opportunities to enlighten me about yourself and your opinions but you are hiding behind one liners for some reason. I'm just concise with my answers. I was asked pretty direct and narrowish questions so I gave pretty direct and narrowish answers. Also keeping track of everything in forum mafia is surprisingly different, so hopefully I didn't miss anything I'm supposed to be replying to from the last couple of pages. Basically I've played a bit of mafia, am probably terrible at reading people, but TheChyz does seem a bit fishy for the reasons Day_Walker said. Might be too early to tell though. Excuses, bandwagoning and self doubt in one line. I'm down to lynch Asuna or OWB at this point. Dragoon and Chyz read more as if they're trying but misguided. + Show Spoiler [PYP: LoL, where Jonny is Mafia] +On December 03 2013 07:24 JonnyLaw wrote:Rean - Votes yorick, claims vt and roleplays liftlift. Could be scum lurking. Austin talks about champ abilities and not wanting town to role claim. I'm not certain role claiming is the best policy either. Maybe I'm missing something but these two are lurking harder than gtrs. Mocsta is making a lot of excuses. Busy, in mylo etc... I generally agree with Roffles and Mocsta about gtrs. + Show Spoiler +On December 02 2013 15:08 Roffles wrote: I think gtrsrs just doesn't give a fuck anymore because he didn't get his champ of choice and is stuck as a vanilla townie.
To me it all makes sense cause I know he probably just picked a champ he likes playing in the actual game (Khazix) and seemed cool in terms of skills here (he announced he was doing this too), but wasn't able to grab him and now just starts screwing around cause he's got nothing better to do.
MZ wants gtrs lynched and then spends the rest of his posts defending himself. If this is a popular sentiment and he was a proponent of it early why is he getting so much flak? Are mocsta and MZ arguing for some personal reasons? Why did you want me to read these filters. The first two say nothing and the second two are just arguing. Rayn thinks MZ's contradicting himself but the first couple days I thought Rayn posted okay for the most part. I'm more confused about them at this point than anything. tldr Rean and Austin are useless right now because they're doing nothing. Mocsta's making excuses without them being asked. Could be scummy. MZ's spending all his time on defense. This is the opposite of how soniv approached aggression directed his way. That's why I liked soniv for town earlier. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 09:13 JonnyLaw wrote: Koshi went to sleep. Are you reading this thread Balla? Then this. This is just blatantly not reading the thread. I was asked by jaybrundage to make a "town case" on koshi, so I did so. I even quoted what I was responding to. Yet he tells me I'M not reading the thread. This ticks me off ^_^.
On February 08 2014 11:10 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 09:57 Aquanim wrote: @JayB: So far as I can see, Jonny hasn't pushed any reads so far and I don't think he's trying to learn more about other players through his posts. Why do you think Alakaslam is a better lynch than him? Your right jonny's lack of thread presence is troubling. I didn't think he was that scummy with his early game posts. But not pushing anyone or having any real reads means he could very well be scum.
On February 10 2014 05:05 jaybrundage wrote:In response to + Show Spoiler +On February 10 2014 03:17 Balla24 wrote: There's a big problem here in that out of Jaybrundage/Suki, both had very similar non logical progressions on Jonny. Both wanted to see "more" from him, both saw him as scummy later in the day but didn't switch to him.
I feel that Suki's progression makes more sense. She was pushing jaybrundage hard because she thought he was scum.
Jay's doesn't really follow. It was clear that Jonny was going to get lynched, and he doesn't really share his opinions, he OMGUS vs suki and then his thread presence during the lynch was non-existent. There was no thoughts on the lynch DURING the lynch which I find really surprising for jay. He kind of accepted it and stuck on a useless suki vote, didn't try to push it on anybody else etc etc. He wasn't doing anything even though he should have been doing something, as though it was a lost cause.
I really do feel like we have a scum within suki/jay though, so if we lynch within them we have 50% chance on either. Whereas out of the jonny voters I think we are getting more to a 25% chance or so to hit the scum.
Although if I'm wrong about this. There's actually 2 scum in the jonny vote and therefore we have closer to a 50% chance of hitting scum in there. I can't decide whether I'd like to lynch within the jonny voters or within jay/suki. Yea I was a bit of a mess later on in day 1. I didn't feel convicted with jonny being scum. I had an early town read on him. I thought you and Koshi were scum and when jonny was agreeing with my thinking it made me think he was town. I was using the heuristic that people who think similarly to me were more likely to be the same alignment as me. However I was wrong with ya'll being scum and similarly with Jonny being town. So yea my reads were all pretty bad early day 1. I began to see jonny as nuller as the day went on. But I never felt that he was sure scum or anything. Then when I got too the thread in the near end of the day. I felt scared to contribute as I didn't want to attract unwanted attention by saying the wrong thing and getting mislynched. I had had a pretty shitty day 1 so I was being pretty cautious. This is a bit of a scummy mind set but I didn't really have much conviction on jonny. I was still pretty null on him. I felt going to the thread and waffling would look bad. So in the end when I commented I didn't mention him at all. As I had nothing of use to add. Instead I commented on other people of interest. I could of moved my vote to jonny. But it felt like it was an empty action. What would be the point of it. He was getting lynched and I had nothing to add or much of opinion that was worth voicing. Alot of this hesitancy stemmed from my bad day 1 and at that point in the game. I was fine with my strong town reads: Balla, Aqua having the reins to the lynch wagon. My biggest concern after my botched start was not to get mislynched tho as opposed to trying to lead a lynch. I tried with who I thought was scum at the beginning. But after that went badly I just wanted to make sure town didn't get a mislynch on me. So that should explain my end of the day play I believe. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I might not be back respond till after the night is over tho.
The first post is kinda-sorta soft defense of JonnyLaw but carefully avoids saying whether he thinks JonnyLaw is scum or not.
The second is a really weak agreement that JonnyLaw "could be scum".
And then there's the huge "excuses and apologies" post where he states that he never had JonnyLaw as scum - how does this work with the previous? And what's the point of stating that you "could of moved your vote" if you honestly didn't think he was scummy, you'd have voted him just because everyone else was voting him? The post is just overall terrible with statements like "My biggest concern after my botched start was not to get mislynched" - as town you find scum and lynch scum, not care about appearances.
Part 2: jaybrundage and sidesprang
On February 10 2014 14:18 jaybrundage wrote: So guis we should totes lynch Sidesprang. I looked over Oat's filter briefly leaning town atm. It's not based on anything particularly just feels. It's hard to get a good read on Oats as his post's are mostly one liners.
So I shall join you Oats on Sidesprang.
@Sidesprang. I am gonna policy lynch your ass. There also is a decent chance your scum. So yea. Give me some reason to keep you alive.
On February 10 2014 16:09 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 16:04 LoneMeow wrote:On February 10 2014 15:30 LoneMeow wrote: Between you and suki I'd prefer lynching suki right now, I'll get to the reasons when I finish reading things. Right, so suki's thought process about JonnyLaw is just plain scummy. Note that at some points she claims JonnyLaw is her second lynch choice, yet she doesn't seem interested in pressuring him at all or trying to figure out his alignment. Then there's the "second chance" thing. You don't give second chances to players you think are scum. I find your stance somewhat easier to see coming from a badly tunneled town. suki, your stance on JonnyLaw before the lynch is really vague. Did you, or did you not, think he was scum? I agree whole heartily. If Coag is just useless townie (unlikely) who else do you think you would plug as scum.
On February 10 2014 16:11 jaybrundage wrote: Bleh I wanted to vote Coag after I saw his terrible reasoning for his 99% crap. But I also wanna pressure sidesprang T_T
Oh well YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED SIDESPRANG!!!
On February 11 2014 08:24 jaybrundage wrote:In response to + Show Spoiler +On February 11 2014 02:02 suki wrote:Jay's questions directed at Coag: Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 14:28 jaybrundage wrote: Let's talk I want you to start posting we can't get a read of you if you lurk.
Why do you think I'm scum? What do you think of Oats, Suki, Hopeless, Sidesprang.
I have nothing to read you with. Please fix this. Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 15:26 jaybrundage wrote:Hei lonemeow. Lets chat. What do you think of Oats, Hopeless1der and Sidesprang? What is your opinion of me and Suki right now? Is balla too townie to be townie. Should we kill him for the lulz + Show Spoiler + Hi Jay, I notice you're asking about four players specifically. Can you please let me know why these four (I have an idea just want to let you answer it)? Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 14:18 jaybrundage wrote: So guis we should totes lynch Sidesprang. I looked over Oat's filter briefly leaning town atm. It's not based on anything particularly just feels. It's hard to get a good read on Oats as his post's are mostly one liners.
So I shall join you Oats on Sidesprang.
@Sidesprang. I am gonna policy lynch your ass. There also is a decent chance your scum. So yea. Give me some reason to keep you alive. You voted sidesprang as a 'policy lynch'. First off, why was it a policy lynch? Second, what are your thoughts on him right now? What are your own thoughts on Oats, Hopeless and LoneMeow? Welp as you may have guessed I am not as sure on the alignment of the players I am asking about. I might be leaning on them a certain way in regards to their alignment but not very sure on any of them. So I want other people's thoughts so I can get a better read on them. I think Oats is likely town. Similar style of last game. Doesn't seem to be bothered by the pressure that Aqua and Balla were putting on him. Seems reasonable carefree. Hopeless1der is a player I am not sure on again. A common trait in the people I mentioned. Leaning town because he is playing so differently from last scum game. He seems to be thinking about the game. Doesn't post alot which makes it trickier to read him. Lonemeow is someone I feel that is posting very similar to his last game as town. So stands to reason he is town again this game. Seems to be reading up on the game. Posting his questions and little reads. I wanted to push Sidesprang as a policy lynch because he has the smallest filter atm. I want him to post more he doesn't put enough content in the thread. I have a hard time reading him just because of that. However Coag's terrible play is just screaming for a lynch. So I couldn't proceed with my original play of pressuring Sidesprang. I had no intention to actually try to get people to lynch him. I just wanted him to realize that he can be policy lynch material because of his lurker tendencies this game. My scum reads should be well known. I believe Suki that you are similar to Hopeless1der in that you will be the best scum on the team and therefore the hardest to lynch. You play can read either good town Or good scum and that what makes it difficult. Your play if you are scum is also comparable to scum marv. You don't do overtly scummy things that make you an easy lynch. You play using reasoning and meta and all that good stuff.
On February 11 2014 11:55 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 23:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Coag is totally an angry lynch by people who are angry. dont do it!! Can you expand on this Oats. I think Coag is a coin flip basically with more of a chance to land on scum. Maybe like 70-30. Who would you propose we vote instead do you still like sidesprang for a lynch. What about Suki?
On February 12 2014 06:54 jaybrundage wrote: I also think Oats is pretty townie sticking his neck out like that. But he had a town read and defended so that looks pretty good on him. I'm not sure about Sidesprang being scum or not. Difficult to read him.
Here the first post implies that jaybrundage thinks there's a good chance that sidesprang is scum. So why policy lynch? Why not lynch him for being scum?
The next post pretty much states that he also thinks Coagulation is scum.
"I wanted to pressure sidesprang" - that just makes no sense, it's not like you can't pressure him even without voting him at that very moment, and you could very well have voted him at that time, as there was plenty of time until lynch to switch if necessary.
The last few posts imply that he never actually thought that sidesprang was scum after all. Followed by:
On February 12 2014 06:52 jaybrundage wrote: Sidesprang not being in the thread when hes about to be lynched doesn't look so great.
Coag could be town reading up on him. I do find it odd that he asked for a vig shot and then got angry when people were gonna lynch him.
##Unvote ##Vote Sidesprang
Lets hope for the best.
Now why would you vote the person you never actually wanted people to lynch if the best you can say about the other choice is "could be town"?
|
The thing that strikes out most about Aquanim is this progression:
On February 11 2014 17:10 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 17:05 Oatsmaster wrote: He was useful in pyp 4. Caused 2 scum deaths. I dont even know why coag keeps playing when you guys keep shitting on him every game when he doesnt do what you want <shrug> I don't read theme games. And I don't see what's so unreasonable about asking someone to justify their views.
On February 12 2014 06:28 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team calling it now. You're hilarious Coag. Also, you disgust me... but the fact you're posting anything game-relevant at all is apparently a town-tell. (Much happier with the scum-meta from the PYP LoL game than the others I found.) Imma go take a quick look at Sidesprang again.
On February 12 2014 14:32 Aquanim wrote: Later on somebody linked LoL PYP (which I hadn't found, since it isn't in the database and I didn't check every game for the last three months) and I thought that game was more reliable as a reference for his scum-meta - since it indeed had him doing sweet fuck all, even less than what I saw in his towngames or what he was doing here, I obtained a townread on Coag on that basis.
There's some cognitive dissonance between the idea that he doesn't want to bother to check the game because it's themed, yet when it's linked to the thread he in fact does read it and use it as reason to swap his vote.
But him being scum would imply a pretty hard bus on D1. I need to look into that but it's bedtime now so that will have to wait until morning.
|
On February 13 2014 08:08 jaybrundage wrote: Well lets say I was blue hypothetically I would probably be Parity Cop hypothetically. And I would hypothetically check Koshi day 1 for a control check hypothetically. And then would check Aquanim hypothetically. To see if he was scum hypothetically. But he would come up the SAME hypothetically. So he could be town hypothetically or godfather hypothetically. However if I'm the only blue hypothetically. Then they might not have any mafia role hypothetically.
So If I was blue hypothetically that would be what might of happened hypothetically.
Not the blue claim I was expecting, but your choices of target do have some merit so meh, dunno.
Would you please try addressing some of the issues about your play I highlighted here?
|
On February 13 2014 09:15 Hopeless1der wrote: here's what i've got:
jay claims blue. so far no counterclaims. ergo jay is blue (Alternatively, scum have no power roles and believe this was an all vanilla game. Incredibly ballsy play)
coag was counterwagon to sidesprang oats hard defends coag ->coag, oats town
aqua has a 'same' check from jay.
suki claims town (surprise, surprise)
Lonemeow is all thats left.
Are you trying to seriously imply that suki's VT claim is anything but a null tell?
|
On February 13 2014 10:18 Aquanim wrote:Dunno that I'd classify entering the thread late as scummy. Stuff happens. I do have a question for LoneMeow though. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 03:30 LoneMeow wrote: Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far.
So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies. One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum.
Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know. @LoneMeow: Had you looked at everyone in the game before making this post? If so, what do you mean by a "proper read"?
Exactly as advertised on the tin: I had done a quick read through of the thread without stopping to think about anything, without looking into any filters and that was the initial impression I got.
"Proper read" meant going back to read it through again, stopping to think about interesting posts and check filters where relevant.
|
On February 13 2014 15:29 Aquanim wrote: Is your top scumread still Jay?
If I could ignore the claim, yes, but there's nothing that would disprove it really, so I don't know.
|
On February 13 2014 12:16 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 06:02 LoneMeow wrote: This general lack of interest in this lynch gives me bad vibes. why exactly did you say this LM? I was pretty interested in it, balla/suki too.
Well yes, and that was the problem: Only a few people seemed really interested in it. And in the last ~6 hours before that post it was pretty much just me/Balla24/Coagulation discussing things.
|
On February 13 2014 15:34 Aquanim wrote: Who would be your next best guess ignoring Jay then?
Hopeless1der or suki, pretty much equally suspicious of them right now.
|
Aquanim, was there a particular reason you asked about my first post in the game?
|
On February 12 2014 23:50 Aquanim wrote:Sorry bout that, dota happened LoneMeow+ Show Spoiler +Interactions with/about JonnyLawOn February 08 2014 03:30 LoneMeow wrote: Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far.
So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies. One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum.
Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know. This was LoneMeow's first post in-game. It would seem a little odd for him to bus his scumbuddy right out the gate - then again, Jonny already had two votes on him (myself and Koshi IIRC) and was taking a decent amount of pressure. It might have just seemed like the safest course. Although actually, now that I think about it... how did LoneMeow come to this conclusion without having done a "proper read" of the thread? If you read this LM I'd like an answer, otherwise I'll ask later. He justifies his position when asked though. On February 08 2014 06:12 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:32 suki wrote:On February 08 2014 05:19 LoneMeow wrote: Okay, so:
JonnyLaw
Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion.
Verdict: scummy
Can you provide some examples to back this up? See for example this post from last game: Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 11:48 JonnyLaw wrote: Meh, okay so she dislikes everything I say. I think they mean the same thing. I guess it could be taken as she thinks im misguided sometimes rather than simply scummy.
Her question seemed legit enough but balla's right. At the start of day 1 I want to see what someone is willing or able to bring to the game. There's no point saying much until they show what they're committing.
At this point LM's first post was shit but says nothing about his alignment until other actions take place in the game.
Koshi on the other hand created two pages of shit posting. This allowed LM and other LM like people to pop in, say nothing and fuck off out of here acting as though they participated in the game. Compare to this game - there's absolutely none of that aggression and hostility aimed at any players. It's all generic, see for example these: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:43 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 Koshi wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. Overall you had a good game. You had one comment early that tripped my scum radar. I think along the lines of "in newer games people need motivation to post." Then you proceeded to try and take over the town. I felt like you were scum trying to take over the town. Bah, you should have been scum. Nobody cares about past game Jonny. What better time to sit around talking. It lets us get reads we can use later. Better last game or future games or past games than fucking policy talk. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Votes are like assholes in this game. Give the man a minute. It's day1 lets sit around and chat a while. On February 08 2014 06:21 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote: Ok so Jonny doesn't have any scum games that I can find. If someone can link me any that would be great.
To my best understanding he's had none whatsoever. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote: Going through the previous town games of his I don't see too much difference between those games and this game. He's always posted one liners, with the occasional longer post here and there. One of the things that I didn't like about his play that I've mentioned is he keeps on shitting on Balla's opening post way after he says it's useless to talk about it.. But in Shadowed Mafia he actually does the same with Koshi's opening. Keeps on mentioning it despite saying it's useless.
If you look at the previous aborted game, he did have one liners but he also posted quite a lot of longer posts where he actively volunteered his thoughts and reads on players. That's what is missing in this game, along with the aggression and hostility towards players he thinks are scum. If LoneMeow's scum he bussed JonnyLaw good and hard, at a time when I feel it wasn't immediately necessary... but I'm not entirely sure the scum team would have felt the same way. There was also that thing where Jonny claimed LoneMeow had said "lurking"/"nothing of merit" without ever really reading his filter. ...I really don't know how that reflects on LoneMeow's alignment, I'd like to hear other opinions on this one. I think it could be important though. Interactions with/about SidesprangOn February 08 2014 06:05 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 05:24 LoneMeow wrote:On February 08 2014 05:21 Koshi wrote: I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.
I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.
Can we see a vote already? Why do you think jaybrundage can't be scum if JonnyLaw is town? Connection? The way you catched me previous game. I disappeared when it was lynch and wasn't discussing anything. The same happened with Jonny early game. Imagine if Jonny is town and jayB is scum, do you think Jonny would suddenly disappear at the same time hell breaks lose and not offer his opinion? There's always the chance that he actually had to do something IRL, but yes, I see your point. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote: Then when I call him out on him he says that he is there and trying to make sense of the clusterfuck. Which is extremely scummy, and then the next thing he posts is a misinterpretation about something that hapenned PRE-GAME. (the lollypop business).
The "trying to make sense" thing was scummy, I agree. What do you think of sidesprang? You asked him some questions, did you come to some conclusion based on the answers? meh. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787¤tpage=60#1200Partially contests suki's case on Sidesprang. Reads kind of similar to my own argument against Oats' case but that doesn't necessarily make LM town. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787¤tpage=60#1200then this, about which I am also "meh". On LoneMeow's metaI went back and had a quick look at his scum meta (most recent I believe) from Newbie XLVII. Despite the fact that he was apparently posting with one hand from hospital or something, he asked some questions and appears to have had at least a little interaction with the thread. My only personal previous experience with LoneMeow was when he was scum in Newbie XLIII, in which his play was significantly less proactive. Therefore, I previously had his large amount of interaction with the thread as a strong towntell - in the light of his XLVII meta I think it's weaker. Conclusion: I don't really have one as yet. He'd be playing a pretty damn good scumgame if he is but I think he might conceivably be capable of it. obviously imma talk some more with lone and develop my read on him tomorrow. For now I'll have a look at hopeless then go to bed. Can't be assed thinking about jay until he reveals whatever is going on with this blueclaim shit.
Just to validate your thoughts, are you aware of my meta as scum?
|
On February 13 2014 15:51 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 15:44 LoneMeow wrote:On February 13 2014 15:34 Aquanim wrote: Who would be your next best guess ignoring Jay then? Hopeless1der or suki, pretty much equally suspicious of them right now. I'm finding it pretty hard to believe that a scum-Suki would make this post: Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote: Hm...
Call it a hunch, but I'm going to go with Hopeless. I think Oats is town and I he's convinced me that sidesprang is the better lynch for today. I also feel like trusting his meta read on Coag.
I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis.
##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Given her past comments on Coag she could have very easily just let the Coag lynch go through, but instead she pushed the lynch towards scum. I find it hard to believe this is a "bus my teammate and hope nobody follows" post either. Can you explain why you think Suki's actions regarding the day 2 lynch would serve a scum motivation?
If I'm not mistaken the votes after she switched were:
Coagulation ( 5 ) : LoneMeow, jaybrundage, Hopeless1der, sidesprang, Aquanim, Suki, Aquanim Sidesprang ( 3 ) : Oatsmaster, Coagulation, suki, Jaybrundage Oatsmaster ( 1 ) : Balla24, Aquanim
So I don't see why she wouldn't bus for town cred. Note that she doesn't really do anything to push the lynch, just switches her vote.
The way I see it: If we had mislynched Coagulation and then lynched sidesprang after that, it would look better for her to have been on the correct wagon. And it also distances her from sidesprang.
|
On February 13 2014 15:57 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 15:49 LoneMeow wrote:On February 12 2014 23:50 Aquanim wrote:Sorry bout that, dota happened LoneMeow+ Show Spoiler +Interactions with/about JonnyLawOn February 08 2014 03:30 LoneMeow wrote: Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far.
So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies. One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum.
Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know. This was LoneMeow's first post in-game. It would seem a little odd for him to bus his scumbuddy right out the gate - then again, Jonny already had two votes on him (myself and Koshi IIRC) and was taking a decent amount of pressure. It might have just seemed like the safest course. Although actually, now that I think about it... how did LoneMeow come to this conclusion without having done a "proper read" of the thread? If you read this LM I'd like an answer, otherwise I'll ask later. He justifies his position when asked though. On February 08 2014 06:12 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:32 suki wrote:On February 08 2014 05:19 LoneMeow wrote: Okay, so:
JonnyLaw
Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion.
Verdict: scummy
Can you provide some examples to back this up? See for example this post from last game: Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 11:48 JonnyLaw wrote: Meh, okay so she dislikes everything I say. I think they mean the same thing. I guess it could be taken as she thinks im misguided sometimes rather than simply scummy.
Her question seemed legit enough but balla's right. At the start of day 1 I want to see what someone is willing or able to bring to the game. There's no point saying much until they show what they're committing.
At this point LM's first post was shit but says nothing about his alignment until other actions take place in the game.
Koshi on the other hand created two pages of shit posting. This allowed LM and other LM like people to pop in, say nothing and fuck off out of here acting as though they participated in the game. Compare to this game - there's absolutely none of that aggression and hostility aimed at any players. It's all generic, see for example these: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:43 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 Koshi wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. Overall you had a good game. You had one comment early that tripped my scum radar. I think along the lines of "in newer games people need motivation to post." Then you proceeded to try and take over the town. I felt like you were scum trying to take over the town. Bah, you should have been scum. Nobody cares about past game Jonny. What better time to sit around talking. It lets us get reads we can use later. Better last game or future games or past games than fucking policy talk. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Votes are like assholes in this game. Give the man a minute. It's day1 lets sit around and chat a while. On February 08 2014 06:21 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote: Ok so Jonny doesn't have any scum games that I can find. If someone can link me any that would be great.
To my best understanding he's had none whatsoever. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote: Going through the previous town games of his I don't see too much difference between those games and this game. He's always posted one liners, with the occasional longer post here and there. One of the things that I didn't like about his play that I've mentioned is he keeps on shitting on Balla's opening post way after he says it's useless to talk about it.. But in Shadowed Mafia he actually does the same with Koshi's opening. Keeps on mentioning it despite saying it's useless.
If you look at the previous aborted game, he did have one liners but he also posted quite a lot of longer posts where he actively volunteered his thoughts and reads on players. That's what is missing in this game, along with the aggression and hostility towards players he thinks are scum. If LoneMeow's scum he bussed JonnyLaw good and hard, at a time when I feel it wasn't immediately necessary... but I'm not entirely sure the scum team would have felt the same way. There was also that thing where Jonny claimed LoneMeow had said "lurking"/"nothing of merit" without ever really reading his filter. ...I really don't know how that reflects on LoneMeow's alignment, I'd like to hear other opinions on this one. I think it could be important though. Interactions with/about SidesprangOn February 08 2014 06:05 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 05:24 LoneMeow wrote:On February 08 2014 05:21 Koshi wrote: I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.
I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.
Can we see a vote already? Why do you think jaybrundage can't be scum if JonnyLaw is town? Connection? The way you catched me previous game. I disappeared when it was lynch and wasn't discussing anything. The same happened with Jonny early game. Imagine if Jonny is town and jayB is scum, do you think Jonny would suddenly disappear at the same time hell breaks lose and not offer his opinion? There's always the chance that he actually had to do something IRL, but yes, I see your point. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote: Then when I call him out on him he says that he is there and trying to make sense of the clusterfuck. Which is extremely scummy, and then the next thing he posts is a misinterpretation about something that hapenned PRE-GAME. (the lollypop business).
The "trying to make sense" thing was scummy, I agree. What do you think of sidesprang? You asked him some questions, did you come to some conclusion based on the answers? meh. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787¤tpage=60#1200Partially contests suki's case on Sidesprang. Reads kind of similar to my own argument against Oats' case but that doesn't necessarily make LM town. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787¤tpage=60#1200then this, about which I am also "meh". On LoneMeow's metaI went back and had a quick look at his scum meta (most recent I believe) from Newbie XLVII. Despite the fact that he was apparently posting with one hand from hospital or something, he asked some questions and appears to have had at least a little interaction with the thread. My only personal previous experience with LoneMeow was when he was scum in Newbie XLIII, in which his play was significantly less proactive. Therefore, I previously had his large amount of interaction with the thread as a strong towntell - in the light of his XLVII meta I think it's weaker. Conclusion: I don't really have one as yet. He'd be playing a pretty damn good scumgame if he is but I think he might conceivably be capable of it. obviously imma talk some more with lone and develop my read on him tomorrow. For now I'll have a look at hopeless then go to bed. Can't be assed thinking about jay until he reveals whatever is going on with this blueclaim shit. Just to validate your thoughts, are you aware of my meta as scum? Well you were scum in Newbie XLIII which we both played in. I also took a look at Newbie XLVII (I think that's the number?) in which you were also scum, but had a motorcycle accident or something just before the game started so you were posting with one hand from hospital. Despite that you engaged with the thread much more than I remember from XLIII, asked questions of people and posted some reasoning behind your reads. AFAIK you haven't played scum since then, correct me if I'm wrong here.
I replaced into Hogwarts but got vigged before I even really managed to catch up with the game so I don't know how useful that is.
|
On February 13 2014 16:05 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 15:55 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah what aqua said actually. I just dont think hopeless is scum also. Which leaves like Coag.
Aqua/hopeless, why is Coag confirmed town because of the lynch? Couldnt have it been scum and scum?
Yeah I was thinking about that actually. Ordinarily the argument against both of the wagons on one day being scum is that the scumteam would have tried to set up at least one townie as a possible lynch target. BUT, if the scumteam at that point was Coag/Sidesprang they didn't have the thread presence to do anything of the sort. So you're quite right. I don't think Coag is confirmed town based on that lynch, now that I think about it. Which leaves us with two reasons to think Coag's town: 1) his scum meta is to post no reads or much of anything useful at all, which isn't what we've seen here 2) him getting emotional and flaming us for lynching him Which is... meh. Regarding 1) I'd like to think Coag isn't a complete incompetent, and could possibly play a better scumgame than his usual if he felt like it. So... meh. Regarding 2) the question I'm thinking about is "could Coag, as scum, be mad because he thinks he's being lynched ONLY for the flaws in Alakaslam's play?". And I'm with you here... I really just can't find the scum in the other players. It's conceivable that it's Lone or Hopeless, but I'm not really feeling it. Coag just bailing out of the thread after the lynch and not coming back for 36 hours sits badly with me too but this being Coag what do you expect.
Being angry about being lynched is totally null to me. It's quite possible that Coagulation wanted to give sidesprang town cred if he thought there was no way out for him. But really, the meta difference is so huge that I'm not considering him a top lynch right now.
|
On February 13 2014 16:09 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 16:00 LoneMeow wrote:On February 13 2014 15:51 Aquanim wrote:On February 13 2014 15:44 LoneMeow wrote:On February 13 2014 15:34 Aquanim wrote: Who would be your next best guess ignoring Jay then? Hopeless1der or suki, pretty much equally suspicious of them right now. I'm finding it pretty hard to believe that a scum-Suki would make this post: On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote: Hm...
Call it a hunch, but I'm going to go with Hopeless. I think Oats is town and I he's convinced me that sidesprang is the better lynch for today. I also feel like trusting his meta read on Coag.
I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis.
##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Given her past comments on Coag she could have very easily just let the Coag lynch go through, but instead she pushed the lynch towards scum. I find it hard to believe this is a "bus my teammate and hope nobody follows" post either. Can you explain why you think Suki's actions regarding the day 2 lynch would serve a scum motivation? If I'm not mistaken the votes after she switched were: Coagulation ( 5 ) : LoneMeow, jaybrundage, Hopeless1der, sidesprang, Aquanim, Suki, Aquanim Sidesprang ( 3 ) : Oatsmaster, Coagulation, suki, Jaybrundage Oatsmaster ( 1 ) : Balla24, Aquanim So I don't see why she wouldn't bus for town cred. Note that she doesn't really do anything to push the lynch, just switches her vote. The way I see it: If we had mislynched Coagulation and then lynched sidesprang after that, it would look better for her to have been on the correct wagon. And it also distances her from sidesprang. I'd forgotten Coag had already voted Sidesprang at that point, but that vote would probably be implicit in the thread situation. Still though my feeling for the thread at that point was that Oats was getting no traction pushing the Sidesprang lynch, the thread was largely in the mindset of "let's just lynch Coag and get this day over with". Suki jumping on the Sidesprang wagon gave it momentum and more credibility as a counterwagon. I guess it's possible maybe that Suki misjudged what the effect would be of her getting on Sidesprang. Still though... there were plenty of people on the Coag lynch to hide behind and just sheep to a mislynch.
Are you aware of suki's scum meta? I hosted NMM LI - after that I'm extremely wary of her bussing teammates...
I'm more like thinking suki did not expect Balla24 to jump on sidesprang and start seriously pushing the vote - that's what got sidesprang lynched, far more than suki herself switching.
This is basically Balla24's suspicions before suki went on sidesprang:
On February 10 2014 12:39 Balla24 wrote: I don't want to hard push Oats yet, but there is a case to be had in the near future, I want to see other people stuff first. Like hopeless' promised answers to my question, and stuff from coag and sidesprang.
|
On February 13 2014 17:34 suki wrote: I put Coag over Hopeless because Hopeless' play makes no sense for a scum planning for late game. He still has two mislynches to go and yet he's townreading everyone except me, his one scum pick. Makes sense as town, not as scum.
So based on this weak WIFOMy logic you just ignore everything else about him? If you ignore the "kamikaze, makes no sense" argument for a moment, would he be scummy or not?
|
On February 13 2014 17:43 suki wrote:If I ignore his Day 3 'kamikaze no plan for the future' play, then he looks worse than LoneMeow, as per my case in N2: + Show Spoiler +On February 13 2014 00:41 suki wrote:Hopeless: Hopeless is way more active than last game. I was going to say that this points to him being more town but actually thinking about it, he was pretty active at the end of Day 1 last game, active enough to convince people he was town. I was also going to say he's more light-hearted but actually his tone seems about the same (minus the reboot pic that he posted when his wireless conked out which is null imo). He hard pushes Jay as the lynch on Day 1: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 10:35 Hopeless1der wrote: I dont like jayb..so forced and trivial. Like in a too-scummy-to-be-scum way. I actually liked the way he pressured and thought it was townie. and then he randomly votes Jonny: Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 23:44 Hopeless1der wrote:On February 08 2014 23:29 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 23:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 08 2014 23:02 Koshi wrote: You never sheep. Was is dis? I sheep all the time, I just dont say im sheeping Not at all. Did.you agree with Hopeless read on you?How sure are you about jonny red flip? Of course he disagrees with me, he's scum Koshi. /sarcasm I may not be back before deadline, family stuff. I'll try to keep updated by phone ##Unvote ##Vote: JonnyLaw So yeah it's a bit strange. Pushes Jay the whole game, I'm stilll hard pushing Jay. Suddenly he votes Jonny with no explanation. Hopeless then posts his big scum theory on me, which is the biggest effort he's put all game (and which I felt was a big point in his favour). However, scum COULD have written it so let's look into his follow up... ... .. He completely forgets about it. That's really weird. Putting so much effort into calling someone scum and then not even following up. He gets sidetracked on Coag when thread sentiment is headed that way. He also seems to still be seeing Jay as scummy, reaffirmed that Jay's quote was not a blue claim, but isn't pushing Jay either. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 08:04 Hopeless1der wrote: i kinda still like suki for scum because of her meta-reading of sidesprang being so out to lunch. What about Hopeless' meta read on me? What about my 'bad' case on Jay? What about avoiding Jonny's scum games? About 'wait-and-see' with Jonny? Defending Jonny? Somehow, Hopeless went from suki is scum I have a huge case with actual valid points to, 'i kinda still like suki for scum' with no explanation in between. He also didn't talk about sidesprang yesterday and instead of pushing me or Jay just went with effectively a policy lynch. ConclusionI agree with Aqua, Hopeless looks a lot more scummy than LoneMeow. He's my number one scum read at the moment.
So does the "kamikaze" logic hold water? Are those really town reads he can't back out of if you are lynched and flip town?
|
On February 13 2014 17:41 suki wrote: Ah. I stand corrected then. Still, there's a lot of pressure on me and it's been this sort of nagging constant the whole game.
Like, from the start people were like suki could be scum she's really good at it. I just don't see what I could have done differently that would have made people not see me as scummy.
Do you really not understand how your soft defending of JonnyLaw early in the game looks?
Another infamous "let's give him time" post:
On February 08 2014 06:29 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:21 LoneMeow wrote: If you look at the previous aborted game, he did have one liners but he also posted quite a lot of longer posts where he actively volunteered his thoughts and reads on players. That's what is missing in this game, along with the aggression and hostility towards players he thinks are scum. true but so far he's been in the thread twice I believe? Right at the beginning and then when he was drunk. Let's see how he fares when he comes back today.
Then a "me too" scum read on JonnyLaw:
On February 08 2014 13:31 suki wrote: Right now my second lynch is Jonny.
I think the points brought up by Balla are quite valid. I found his lack of comment on Jay strange (even before I really started tunneling Jay). He promised a big post on Balla and has not delivered which is really fishy. Points in his favour are that his playstyle hasn't changed dramatically (still one liners, still mostly angry), and a good player once told me that he's never seen a scum player post in the thread when they're drunk.
I think that his activity the next time he comes into the thread is going to make or break my read on him.
If somehow Jay became off-limits for the lynch and I had to choose right now based on my general impressions, I'd vote for Jonny.
Then defending JonnyLaw again (see especially the italics I added):
On February 09 2014 00:11 suki wrote: I just can't get over my read on Jay. He's scum to me through and through. Even before he started blowing up at me his attitude just didn't make sense and didn't fit with his town play. People give him the pass for 'making changes' but they never explain why these changes make it more likely that he's town.
If it's between Jonny and Jay, then I'll push Jay.
Jonny's case on Koshi based on the early gameis so bad. His continued use of the previous game to provide examples is stupid. However if I give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he was working and he's short on time, then it's easier to accept that his cases are bad. At least he's pushing cases, giving reads freely, being upfront.
Contrast it with Jay's behavior. Yes, I am tunneling Jay. I'm just so damn sure of him. I don't buy his blue 'claim' at all (true-blue townie? what kind of stupid claim is that). How is it that Jay's been here so much more than Jonny and yet he's the one that has less scum-hunting activity?
Remember how we were like when Koshi came into this game and claimed he was going to be super active, that if he didn't hold up to it then he's an easy lynch? Jay came into this game with an over the top IM GONNA HUNT SCUM attitude and he HAS NOT DELIVERED. Fuck.
I am willing to give Jonny a second chance. His cases that he made are bad but that's no reason to fault him, at least he made cases, posted opinions and pushed the person he thought was scummy.
What is Jay doing? Jonny came in and had no problems making a shitty case on Koshi just now yet I ask Jay why he thinks Koshi is scum and he dodges hard and later says 'Koshi is null'. Jay can't even stick to his own guns.
Look at the votes in the thread. EVERYONE is on Jonny. Everyone. But there's so much hesitation with Jay.
Face it, Jonny's the easy (mis)lynch target and not because he's been playing scummy, but because he has a few tweaks to his game that are suspicious (such as not flaming people for excuses, not commenting on Jay), because he's been away and because his cases are horrible.
BUT he is OBJECTIVELY (yes Oats, Objectively) doing more pro-town things than Jay.
Arrghghghghgh.
You were defending your scum read!
I need to stop tunneling and look into other candidates, but for now: ##Vote: suki
|
On February 13 2014 18:41 jaybrundage wrote: Hei Lonemeow I like that last case alot. Speaks volumes about Suki's alignment. I find it kind of odd that she would choose to Night kill balla tho. I guess he did write that one case on her so I guess he showed that he could see her thru her if given the opportunity
IMHO Balla24 was the obvious shot, period.
If anyone was confirmed town from the lynch it was him. The fact is, he made a serious push at 5-4 votes that lead to the swap that got scum lynched.
|
Enough about suki for now, let's talk about Hopeless1der. Anything about him that sticks out as especially indicative of his alignment?
|
The most glaring problem with Hopeless1der is not actually the fact that he's not been vocal about either of the lynched scum but the way he made a huge case on suki and did not follow up at all. No push, no pressure.
And then there's excuses:
On February 13 2014 12:52 Hopeless1der wrote: a large portion of it is that I "forgot" about my scumread on suki which is patently untrue. I grew incredibly apathetic due to coag's behavior and stopped playing for the most part. Aside from that, people calling me scum are playing the game. I look bad, I never commented on sprang and scarcely commented on Jonny. When calling me scum, it only means you are wrong, not bad. That's my fault, but meh we're doing so well I doubt it'll matter in the end.
|
On February 13 2014 22:49 Hopeless1der wrote: My primary excuse is that I haven't been up for lynch. I play so much worse when I dont feel like I'm going to die.
Suki makes the most sense, I'm sticking with that. ##Unvote ##Vote: Suki
Who else could you consider voting?
|
On February 13 2014 23:13 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 23:01 LoneMeow wrote:On February 13 2014 22:49 Hopeless1der wrote: My primary excuse is that I haven't been up for lynch. I play so much worse when I dont feel like I'm going to die.
Suki makes the most sense, I'm sticking with that. ##Unvote ##Vote: Suki Who else could you consider voting? You then coag I guess.
I take it that means you believe in jaybrundage's claim? Or is there something else that makes him look better?
|
Hopeless1der, is there a particular reason why you'd lynch me and Coagulation before Aquanim? You mentioned his D1 play but said nothing about D2, how does that look to you?
|
On February 14 2014 01:37 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 01:19 LoneMeow wrote: Hopeless1der, is there a particular reason why you'd lynch me and Coagulation before Aquanim? You mentioned his D1 play but said nothing about D2, how does that look to you? It seems like you are trying to push some suspicion towards Aqua, because why would Hopeless lynch Aqua when cop has confirmed that he's town? Is there something scummy that Aqua's done that makes you doubt the read?
An unconfirmed cop has an unconfirmed check. Does that make Aquanim confirmed in any way?
It should be obvious that Aquanim's D2 vote is somewhat suspicious and I'm trying to ensure we actually have discussed options this time around, no matter who ends up getting lynched in the end.
|
On February 14 2014 01:46 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 01:41 Hopeless1der wrote: Suki how have you flipped so hard from jay is fakeclaimng to there are two confirmed townies. because no one's counterclaimed. You were the one who brought that up and it made sense.
Even if that makes it likely that he really is cop, it does not mean the check is validated in any way given that the setup can contain godfather.
|
On February 14 2014 12:01 suki wrote: After I flip, scum will have to mislynch twice in order to win the game.
The following people I think are town, and this is pretty much the order I have from most to least townie.
Oats - For leading the lynch against sidesprang. For his pressure play. Jay - For claiming cop. I think he'll be shot N3. His Day 2 was decent. His response to my case today on who he chose for his cop checks was really townie too. Aqua - Townie play. Townie interaction with sidesprang. Can't see Aqua being scum. Hopeless - Big filter. Townie Day 3. If he starts playing a different tune once I'm dead I guess take a closer look at him. Coag - Counter lynch to sidesprang. Although he hasn't done anything for town. Meta-wise though he seems more likely to be town as he is playing the game now...
LoneMeow I think is scummy. If LoneMeow isn't scum I really don't know cuz everyone else looks town to me. LoneMeow hasn't stuck his neck out, conveniently hasn't read anybody as town. Has thrown suspicion on everyone today except Oats. In day 1 and 2 he sort of lingered in the background and didn't have any effect on the lynches.
When I die lynch LoneMeow 100%. After he's gone I guess it's between Coag and Hopeless? But yeah I dunno.
Anyways I don't really have much else to say. If it isn't LoneMeow then I'm completely lost on who scum would be. Everyone else just looks town to me. Sorry I couldn't help town any more than this.
This is utterly unhelpful, if you want to call someone's behaviour town/scum you have to explain why it makes sense as that alignment.
Take this for example:
Hopeless - Big filter. Townie Day 3. If he starts playing a different tune once I'm dead I guess take a closer look at him.
What in his D3 play makes him townie? Why is it more likely to come from town tham scum?
(And I find it funny you say Hopeless1der has a big filter when he's tied for the second smallest filter in the game excluding the replacement.)
|
jaybrundage, would you care to respond to this:
On February 13 2014 15:24 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 08:08 jaybrundage wrote: Well lets say I was blue hypothetically I would probably be Parity Cop hypothetically. And I would hypothetically check Koshi day 1 for a control check hypothetically. And then would check Aquanim hypothetically. To see if he was scum hypothetically. But he would come up the SAME hypothetically. So he could be town hypothetically or godfather hypothetically. However if I'm the only blue hypothetically. Then they might not have any mafia role hypothetically.
So If I was blue hypothetically that would be what might of happened hypothetically. Not the blue claim I was expecting, but your choices of target do have some merit so meh, dunno. Would you please try addressing some of the issues about your play I highlighted here?
|
On February 14 2014 15:53 suki wrote: How about you answer my questions first and then I'll answer yours.
I assume you mean these:
On February 14 2014 02:31 suki wrote: LoneMeow who are your town reads right now?
The only one I can call town with good confidence is Oatsmaster. I can't see his defense of Coagulation and push of sideprang being a bus, it was so strong.
On February 14 2014 02:37 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 01:42 LoneMeow wrote:On February 14 2014 01:37 suki wrote:On February 14 2014 01:19 LoneMeow wrote: Hopeless1der, is there a particular reason why you'd lynch me and Coagulation before Aquanim? You mentioned his D1 play but said nothing about D2, how does that look to you? It seems like you are trying to push some suspicion towards Aqua, because why would Hopeless lynch Aqua when cop has confirmed that he's town? Is there something scummy that Aqua's done that makes you doubt the read? An unconfirmed cop has an unconfirmed check. Does that make Aquanim confirmed in any way? It should be obvious that Aquanim's D2 vote is somewhat suspicious and I'm trying to ensure we actually have discussed options this time around, no matter who ends up getting lynched in the end. Ok so can you explain why you think Aqua's Day 2 is suspicious?
From defending sidesprang into voting him after the hammer vote has dropped - how does that not look suspicious? Also note that Aquanim defended sidesprang when his vote was on someone he said he wasn't sure was scum - that's mighty suspicious, defending scum that is the counterwagon to someone you are not very certain is scum.
|
On February 14 2014 16:19 suki wrote: How sure are you that I'm scum LoneMeow?
Say maybe 50%.
See, the problem for me is that I know your only scum read is wrong and it's causing real issues trying to figure out whether you're just mistaken tunneled town or scum trying to desperately get out of the situation.
This definitely does not help:
On February 14 2014 12:01 suki wrote: Anyways I don't really have much else to say. If it isn't LoneMeow then I'm completely lost on who scum would be. Everyone else just looks town to me. Sorry I couldn't help town any more than this.
See how easy it would be for you to refute any of the town reads you threw out after my mislynch when you've said something like that? So basically it makes the said reads pretty much worthless.
|
Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought.
When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this:
Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Alakaslam JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24 Alakaslam ( 0 ) : jaybrundage Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, Jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : Jaybrundage, JonnyLaw Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24
There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now.
|
On February 14 2014 16:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Only 50%? You seem a lot more sure than that.
The only thing that matters is how sure I am about her compared to others.
|
Meh, I guess it would have been too easy if suki was the last scum.
My next lynch candidate would be Hopeless1der. Largely for the fact that it seems he doesn't really care who's getting lynched.
This is his D1 reasoning for voting JonnyLaw:
On February 09 2014 01:12 Hopeless1der wrote: i'm not convinced that's a blue claim, but i'm fine with lynching jonny in the meantime.
D2 he makes a large case on suki, has some followup and then just jumps on Coagulation, ignoring suki completely - including the fact that suki is also voting Coagulation.
D3 is just a "me too" vote:
On February 13 2014 22:49 Hopeless1der wrote: My primary excuse is that I haven't been up for lynch. I play so much worse when I dont feel like I'm going to die.
Suki makes the most sense, I'm sticking with that. ##Unvote ##Vote: Suki
The overall theme seems to be a lack of commitment and care about who gets lynched - that's not a town mindset.
+ Show Spoiler +Interesting quote from LXIII post-game discussion (he was scum in that game): On December 08 2013 15:17 Hopeless1der wrote: I can't believe I got away with being invisible for so long this game. My activity and general usefulness skyrocket when I'm legitimately up for lynch, I wanted to end up squeaking out an extra day just to turn up dead in the morning latched onto the towniest looking player.
Meanwhile, there is marv in the obsQT struggling to keep his information to himself and still no one said a thing about me. I'm a freaking ninja!
p.s. I cant access the spreadsheet. should I actually request permission or can it be made public?
|
I'd totally lynch jaybrundage if not for the claim - and I fully expect him to come and explain the latest shenanigans about vig during the resolution period. The fact that he was not around at all for the D3 lynch is extremely suspicious.
Coagulation's declining contribution since D2 is also worrying, given his scum meta is to not contribute.
|
Ok, now that we're in resolution period:
jaybrundage, get here and explain your claim and that vig stuff. Also say if you have been roleblocked at any point during the game.
See, part of the problem why I'm not really sold on your claim is that your early play looked like you either were a vig or at least trying to look like one, with stuff like:
On February 07 2014 08:34 jaybrundage wrote: Yea I'm REALLLLLLY confident that both Balla and Koshi are scum. Bleh writing a bunch of stuff on balla would be alot of work tho. And we can sadly only lynch one today. Maybe a vig can shoot balla hmmmm?
On February 09 2014 09:01 jaybrundage wrote: What do you guys think about the vig should we try to use it? Maybe try to reach a decision of if we should off someone night one?
On February 09 2014 09:37 jaybrundage wrote: Hopeless who do you think is most likely to flip scum at this point. If we have a vig who do you think he should shoot?
On February 09 2014 12:31 jaybrundage wrote:Aquanim. I would like to talk mmmate. What do you think of Suki? Do you have any opinion on if we should try to get the vig to shoot someone via vote or something similar. What do you think of Coag wanting Vig to shoot him.
I was fully expecting you to claim vig, not parity cop after all that.
So: which are you? If you are vig, why have you not shot anyone?
|
On February 16 2014 05:47 Coagulation wrote: LM if i had to choose between lynching you and Hopeless1der I would lynch hopeless cause its pretty clear your town but not so much hopeless however I think aqua is a much better chance of flipping scum.
Why Aquanim, besides the D2 votes? See my reasoning why he looks town for his D1 push on JonnyLaw, how does that fit?
|
On February 13 2014 02:52 Hopeless1der wrote: LoneMeow This is more associative with flipped scum than with LM’s play, but Jonny had LoneMeow as scum for shifty reasons and LM was eager to point them out and pressure Jonny concerning why he was able to ignore LM’s filter yet call him scum for lurking. Also the VCA from the Day2 lynch is quite appealing for a town-LoneMeow.
On February 16 2014 11:43 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Vote: LoneMeow
Would you at least care to make a case for why your read on me is now completely the opposite of earlier?
Who would you lynch next after me, why?
|
To emphasize:
##Vote: Hopeless1der
Consider yourself under pressure, start producing analysis.
|
On February 16 2014 19:53 Aquanim wrote: @LoneMeow: Why are you "pressuring" Hopeless at this point?
Because I'm not absolutely certain he's the last scum, so having him talk instead of just leaving his vote on me and disappearing for the rest of the day would be good.
|
On February 16 2014 20:01 Aquanim wrote: EBWOP: that wasn't really clear. I'm trying to ask "if not Hopeless, who else are you primarily looking at?"
Well let's see:
Coagulation - I have no idea how to even try to read him, D2 / meta suggests he's town Oatsmaster - D2 push on sidesprang makes him look town you - D1 push on JonnyLaw looks town for the votes, but considering how many people were suspecting him at that point without voting... maybe not
So you would be the most likely person to be scum if Hopeless1der is not.
|
On February 14 2014 17:22 LoneMeow wrote:Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought. When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this: Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Alakaslam JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24 Alakaslam ( 0 ) : jaybrundage Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, Jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : Jaybrundage, JonnyLaw Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now.
So I checked, the following people were voicing suspicion on JonnyLaw before Aquanim posted his case: suki jaybrundage Balla24 Koshi myself
So considering the timing, it could very well have been a bus but that's pretty inconclusive.
Aquanim, were you voting Coagulation on D2 because you thought he was scum or because he was a liability?
|
On February 17 2014 04:20 Hopeless1der wrote: Like ignore that I'm scummy, look to Oats for your advice since he's going to die tonight if we don't lynch scum. He says I'm town at least...
If there is a tomorrow, it is going to be Coag + whoever doesn't get lynched out of (me/aqua/lm) = 2v1 LYLO. Coag is the undisputed town component here and basically the game will hinge on you to 'pick' the scummer out. My hands are tied, I have to go for LM or Aqua and its going to be like that for the rest of the game. If you want to compromise, fantastic, if not I'll have to see about tryharding some bullshit case together because I would fucking have to.
This is some pretty shifty reasoning. As town, you are here to lynch scum, not try to strategize what keeps you alive. If that forces you to make an unpopular case then so be it.
Also, we don't know for a fact that Oatsmaster is town (even though it seems very likely) - and even if he is town it does not mean he's right about who's town/scum.
|
On February 17 2014 21:11 Aquanim wrote: LoneMeow wandered into the thread, put a vote on Hopeless as "pressure" then wandered out. I feel like the time for solely "pressure" votes is well and truly over and this might have been Lone trying to not take some responsibility for this vote. Then again, he has at least justified his vote of Hopeless.
It's a serious vote to lynch scum, but I'm also hoping that since Hopeless1der keeps saying he is super effective active when under pressure it would make him actually post reasoning what he finds scummy about me and whether he's suspicious of anyone else at all.
|
On February 17 2014 22:42 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 22:21 LoneMeow wrote:On February 14 2014 17:22 LoneMeow wrote:Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought. When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this: Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Alakaslam JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24 Alakaslam ( 0 ) : jaybrundage Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, Jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : Jaybrundage, JonnyLaw Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now. So I checked, the following people were voicing suspicion on JonnyLaw before Aquanim posted his case: suki jaybrundage Balla24 Koshi myself So considering the timing, it could very well have been a bus but that's pretty inconclusive. Aquanim, were you voting Coagulation on D2 because you thought he was scum or because he was a liability? Both. I thought he was reasonably likely to be scum, and if he was town would likely either be mislynched later or contribute to a mislynch at LYLO - hence, a liability. I'm sure my reasons are in my filter, if you look.
This is the conclusion you came to after reading up on both players:
On February 12 2014 06:28 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team calling it now. You're hilarious Coag. Also, you disgust me... but the fact you're posting anything game-relevant at all is apparently a town-tell. (Much happier with the scum-meta from the PYP LoL game than the others I found.) Imma go take a quick look at Sidesprang again.
On February 12 2014 06:45 Aquanim wrote: Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang
Give me some kind of idea how strongly you thought each of them was scummy/towny at this point.
Also, why did you feel a need to change your vote if you were unconfident about the lynch, given that it did not affect the outcome?
|
I'm here now. I'm not exactly happy with Oatsmaster just opting out of the lynch like that. Though with Coagulation's wanting to lynch me for not being here when it's not exactly like he is here either... Meh.
Hopeless1der, did you ever like explain why you think I'm scum besides "he was my weakest town read"?
|
On February 18 2014 06:00 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 22:57 LoneMeow wrote:On February 17 2014 22:42 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 22:21 LoneMeow wrote:On February 14 2014 17:22 LoneMeow wrote:Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought. When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this: Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Alakaslam JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24 Alakaslam ( 0 ) : jaybrundage Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, Jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : Jaybrundage, JonnyLaw Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now. So I checked, the following people were voicing suspicion on JonnyLaw before Aquanim posted his case: suki jaybrundage Balla24 Koshi myself So considering the timing, it could very well have been a bus but that's pretty inconclusive. Aquanim, were you voting Coagulation on D2 because you thought he was scum or because he was a liability? Both. I thought he was reasonably likely to be scum, and if he was town would likely either be mislynched later or contribute to a mislynch at LYLO - hence, a liability. I'm sure my reasons are in my filter, if you look. This is the conclusion you came to after reading up on both players: On February 12 2014 06:28 Aquanim wrote:On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team calling it now. You're hilarious Coag. Also, you disgust me... but the fact you're posting anything game-relevant at all is apparently a town-tell. (Much happier with the scum-meta from the PYP LoL game than the others I found.) Imma go take a quick look at Sidesprang again. On February 12 2014 06:45 Aquanim wrote: Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang Give me some kind of idea how strongly you thought each of them was scummy/towny at this point. Also, why did you feel a need to change your vote if you were unconfident about the lynch, given that it did not affect the outcome? Pretty sure that's in my filter too. I thought Sidesprang was significantly more likely to flip scum at that point but it still wouldn't have utterly shocked me for Coag to do so. As for why I changed my vote... pretty sure I've covered this too. Suffice it to say that I prefer my vote to be on the person I want to lynch at the end of the day, regardless of whether it's necessary. Keeps things simple.
Right, the story checks out, nothing here that would make you look scummy.
Do you think there's a chance both wagons may have been on scum?
|
On February 18 2014 06:17 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 06:14 LoneMeow wrote:On February 18 2014 06:00 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 22:57 LoneMeow wrote:On February 17 2014 22:42 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 22:21 LoneMeow wrote:On February 14 2014 17:22 LoneMeow wrote:Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought. When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this: Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Alakaslam JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24 Alakaslam ( 0 ) : jaybrundage Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, Jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : Jaybrundage, JonnyLaw Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now. So I checked, the following people were voicing suspicion on JonnyLaw before Aquanim posted his case: suki jaybrundage Balla24 Koshi myself So considering the timing, it could very well have been a bus but that's pretty inconclusive. Aquanim, were you voting Coagulation on D2 because you thought he was scum or because he was a liability? Both. I thought he was reasonably likely to be scum, and if he was town would likely either be mislynched later or contribute to a mislynch at LYLO - hence, a liability. I'm sure my reasons are in my filter, if you look. This is the conclusion you came to after reading up on both players: On February 12 2014 06:28 Aquanim wrote:On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team calling it now. You're hilarious Coag. Also, you disgust me... but the fact you're posting anything game-relevant at all is apparently a town-tell. (Much happier with the scum-meta from the PYP LoL game than the others I found.) Imma go take a quick look at Sidesprang again. On February 12 2014 06:45 Aquanim wrote: Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang Give me some kind of idea how strongly you thought each of them was scummy/towny at this point. Also, why did you feel a need to change your vote if you were unconfident about the lynch, given that it did not affect the outcome? Pretty sure that's in my filter too. I thought Sidesprang was significantly more likely to flip scum at that point but it still wouldn't have utterly shocked me for Coag to do so. As for why I changed my vote... pretty sure I've covered this too. Suffice it to say that I prefer my vote to be on the person I want to lynch at the end of the day, regardless of whether it's necessary. Keeps things simple. Right, the story checks out, nothing here that would make you look scummy. Do you think there's a chance both wagons may have been on scum? ...Also in my filter. I think Oats asked me at some point. I think it's conceivable - in that case there wouldn't have been any scum with thread presence trying to drive a lynch on a townie, so there's no exceptionally good reason why a two-scum-wagon day should be impossible.
Sorry, the question was a bit badly formed: What I meant to ask was whether there's anything about the play of Coagulation/sidesprang that would make it more/less likely?
|
On February 18 2014 06:18 Aquanim wrote: What is the purpose behind these questions LoneMeow?
Mainly to get more insight on your thought process.
|
On February 13 2014 03:07 Hopeless1der wrote:Pretty Colors Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 06:28 Toadesstern wrote: Votecount: JonnyLaw ( 8 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24, Oatsmaster, LoneMeow, Hopeless1der, Sidesprang, Hopeless1der, Coagulation suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : jaybrundage, JonnyLaW jaybrundage ( 1 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Coagulation
Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24 Coagulation ( 0 ) : jaybrundage, Hopeless1der Sidesprang ( 0 ) : Oatsmaster
DAY1 VCA: My weaker townreads/ (only) scumread are the following players: Aqua LM Jay Suki Things to note: - Suki vs JayB
- Did Aqua or LM appear to be bussing Jonny?
Show nested quote +[B]On February 12 2014 06:55 Toadesstern wrote: Votecount:
Sidesprang ( 7 ) : Oatsmaster, Jaybrundage, Coagulation, suki, Balla24, LoneMeow, Aquanim, jaybrundage Coagulation ( 2 ) : Suki, Aquanim, LoneMeow, jaybrundage, Hopeless1der, sidesprang, Aquanim
Oatsmaster ( 0 ) : Balla24, Aquanim
- Did Aqua or LM appear to be bussing sidesprang?
- Suki 'needed to give jay some space'
- Did jay deliver re: above? Was his vote on sprang contrived or did it seem genuine?
So what are your conclusions to the emphasized questions? What's the purpose of writing them if you don't expect anyone to answer and don't post any analysis yourself?
|
On February 18 2014 06:26 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm not the type of player to cram my reads down your throat. I try to gently show you evidence and let you draw conclusions. Giving you the votecounts is a base point to then consider what the wagons show, and then weighing that against my scumreads.
Yes, but what I'm asking is whether you ever found any evidence for or against the bus scenarios you mention?
|
|
I was actually getting very convinced that Aquanim was town and would have pushed Coagulation next if we had mislynched Hopeless1der, that 180 on reads looked so much like posturing to look better after mislynch...
|
For funsies, this was the first thing I wrote in my notes when I caught up with the game:
town: - Balla24
maybe scum: - jaybrundage - suki
scum: - JonnyLaw
scrutiny: - Oatsmaster - Hopeless1der - sidesprang
|
Thanks to Artanis[Xp] and Toadsstern for hosting.
Super massive big thanks to BlazingHand for being awesome coach.
Sorry for being somewhat afk at times, I've been working 7 days a week, 10 hours a day but I really wanted to participate since who knows when the next opportunity like this appears - think I learned something here. At least my filter was bigger than ever before!
|
On February 18 2014 07:36 suki wrote:I humbly apologize to both Jay and LoneMeow for my incessant tunneling of both of you. I didn't mean it! I really thought you both were scum~~~
No worries, it's not like I didn't tunnel you into a mislynch... Sorry about that
For future reference, I was actually getting worried about the lynch when you were actively talking back to me and trying to convince people it was a mislynch, but then you gave up - if you had continued to protest your innocence and perhaps made just a small concession into analyzing others than just me I might've tried to derail the wagon near deadline. Though it would still have been a mislynch, since I would have tried to push Hopeless1der as the alternative.
|
On February 18 2014 07:57 suki wrote: Also I didn't really know what to say to defend myself. A lot of the points brought up against me were true, things like soft defending Jonny, some of the contradictions.
It felt like people just had this image of my scum being totally godlike when if you look at how I played these last three town games vs the scum game people are referring to, my playstyle, attitude etc are completely different. But of course when I try to explain that the response was 'well, suki knows these things about her play so she can compensate for it' so it felt like fighting a losing battle.
I think some wise coach once told me to not bother too much defending and instead just post as much analysis as possible. Even if it does not save you it will be useful to the remaining townies after your flip.
|
On February 18 2014 08:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Overall though, I think the town played a great game. Coag actually played a great scumgame too; he derailed a perfect town atmosphere and got people to read him as town while doing it. I feel that if Coag kept posting the way he did on D2, he would've probably won the game.
Coagulation actually really managed to disturb things.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 10 2014 15:31 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 15:17 LoneMeow wrote:On February 10 2014 15:08 Coagulation wrote: because all game hes preaching how im auto scum and then he votes someone else. This is really all you get from his 7-page filter? You do realize that if you play like this we will have to ensure you die before LYLO? NO SHIT thats why I asked for a vigi shot. You know the only difference between me and you is that I at least admit I havnt done anything.
That made me actually surprisingly angry, given that I was trying very hard this game and thought I had actually produced some analysis. Made it hard to trust my own reads on him because I thought I might be biased.
|
On February 18 2014 09:11 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 09:03 Blazinghand wrote:On February 18 2014 09:00 Koshi wrote: Yeah, that play from scum was a stroke of genius / luck. I'm not sure "both scum almost getting lynched in the same day" is really smart or lucky. it actually sounds super dooper unlucky You cannot lynch 2 people on the same day. And literally everybody went: "Well, this means Coag is town". Like everybody. So pretty sexy.
Misrepresenting?! ARE YOU SCUM?!
On February 13 2014 16:11 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 16:05 Aquanim wrote:On February 13 2014 15:55 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah what aqua said actually. I just dont think hopeless is scum also. Which leaves like Coag.
Aqua/hopeless, why is Coag confirmed town because of the lynch? Couldnt have it been scum and scum?
Yeah I was thinking about that actually. Ordinarily the argument against both of the wagons on one day being scum is that the scumteam would have tried to set up at least one townie as a possible lynch target. BUT, if the scumteam at that point was Coag/Sidesprang they didn't have the thread presence to do anything of the sort. So you're quite right. I don't think Coag is confirmed town based on that lynch, now that I think about it. Which leaves us with two reasons to think Coag's town: 1) his scum meta is to post no reads or much of anything useful at all, which isn't what we've seen here 2) him getting emotional and flaming us for lynching him Which is... meh. Regarding 1) I'd like to think Coag isn't a complete incompetent, and could possibly play a better scumgame than his usual if he felt like it. So... meh. Regarding 2) the question I'm thinking about is "could Coag, as scum, be mad because he thinks he's being lynched ONLY for the flaws in Alakaslam's play?". And I'm with you here... I really just can't find the scum in the other players. It's conceivable that it's Lone or Hopeless, but I'm not really feeling it. Coag just bailing out of the thread after the lynch and not coming back for 36 hours sits badly with me too but this being Coag what do you expect. Being angry about being lynched is totally null to me. It's quite possible that Coagulation wanted to give sidesprang town cred if he thought there was no way out for him. But really, the meta difference is so huge that I'm not considering him a top lynch right now.
See, I did consider the possibility that both were scum, but unfortunately I thought the meta read on Coagulation was good.
|
|
|
|