EPTThank you in advance for your cooperation
[C][M][T] Survivor Series Mafia
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marvellosity
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Thank you in advance for your cooperation | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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other game boring | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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faith restored | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 07 2014 16:26 yamato77 wrote: I've played this setup (basically the same one) as town and won before. It is not, in any way, op for mafia. your pièce de resistance, indeed! | ||
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On February 08 2014 07:03 iamperfection wrote: apologies we will be starting tomorrow Puts up a poll with 3 options Goes for none of the 3 options I have high hopes for this host | ||
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marvellosity
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And then I'll know yours too :> | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 08 2014 18:51 VisceraEyes wrote: I think voting analysis is going to be especially helpful in this setup in general. Plus I filtered you and looked for Alak instead of Slam. -.- Okay, you made me feels better for now. But to clarify, you would categorize everything Slam has done so far as trolling and non-alignment indicative? Even given the massive amount of bussing that went on last Nomination? | ||
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On February 08 2014 22:50 Oatsmaster wrote: ##vote rayn where the fuck is marv? On February 08 2014 10:13 marvellosity wrote: er, that would make you mafia Slam, woopsie. Activity will be v patchy/non-existent until tomorrow evening. Good to see Oats hasn't evolved. | ||
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marvellosity
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I don't really see why geript is mafia right now | ||
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Btw I saved this post on my readthrough On February 08 2014 22:01 WaveofShadow wrote: I start talking about VE and geript which I think is pretty clear. Then your entrance introduced policy which actually interests me but the buddying withh marv looks bad to me As far as policy itself I don't follow the strategy so I want clarification And I found it interesting that you and yamato find it towny but geript is completely opposed to it, but since I don't understand the strategy behind it I can't really determine what a dichotomy like that indicates If you're looking for conclusions on alignment then I'm sorry to disappooint you <12h into D1. Not enough feels yet because the bolded bit is really bad. People buddy with me all the time and I buddy with people all the time. rayn and I quite happily buddy & work together, see the first edition of LXIV for a really obvious example where we 69ed in PMs and rayn pushed me as mayor even though I'd not done much in the thread. rayn saying "let's find mafia together to me" does not warrant you saying that it looks bad to you. | ||
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On February 09 2014 08:25 Koshi wrote: He is all serious and stuff. And the things he says are so strange. I am having no fun when I read VA. He is evil. ok, these were the things I thought too. | ||
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And while I agree about VA it feels kinda thin. Which isn't your fault but I don't really want to vote him for just that atm. | ||
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On February 09 2014 09:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Buddying in general however brings me to Koshi. His best buddy of all time is in this game, and yet Koshi has made no attempt to do his usual insane (and no offense) annoying buddying with Rayn. Up until only recently when I voted for him, Koshi has not commanded the attention and the usual joyfulness at rolling town that he does---only now have I seen a semblance of the carefree attitude he normally has. Before this he has been avoiding answering questions, being purposefully lazy and unhelpful. Koshi's first post of the game: On February 09 2014 02:14 Koshi wrote: Hi all. Read everything xcept latest 5 messages. Atm at party and will release all my reads when home. I can tell you 1 thing. I had the sickest townread on slam. He is totes town for sure. Also yamato post on Risen post was hilarious. rayn's last, and only, since Koshi's first post: On February 09 2014 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: One question Cora. You said you ahev a rough idea of Slam's playstyle, but in the same sentence you also said you don't know if this is something that is normal for him (the early vote) and ask about it. Why would you ask that because (1) if you have a rough idea of his playstyle how come you don't know if it's normal to him or not and (2) it's probably the easiest thing to check by yourself? | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 09 2014 07:01 Palmar wrote: Well my conclusion was that it wasn't productive, as I said in my post. I mean you may think it was but to me what you did was not productive at all. Now we can debate whether or not it's reasonable to make the jump from "unproductive" to "scummy". There's no reason that unproductive might come from town? | ||
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marvellosity
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I'm not sure I agree on what you've done for the results. In my experience town are far more likely to think they look obv-town and mafia rarely think that way, even as a joke response. I constantly say I'm obv-town as town and can almost never make myself say it as mafia, as a joke or otherwise. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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Shouldn't have to spell that out. | ||
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marvellosity
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"I'm suspicious of Koshi for not buddying rayn" pro job wave. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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So perhaps you can understand my confusion why Koshi is supposed to buddy rayn but rayn buddying me is a bad thing. | ||
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marvellosity
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As a FYI, in my experience, people who buddy me are disproportionately likely to be town, because it's a risk for mafia to draw their attention to me for any reason. I'm hyper-aware of how people treat me in general because a) ego and b) I'm interactive anyways, so anyone buddying with me is automatically drawing some of my attention. I don't tend to fall into the "he likes me, he town" trap that some people do. | ||
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marvellosity
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I mean, I even explained the rationale behind what I said because I know you like that sort of thing. It should make sense to you. | ||
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marvellosity
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Anyway, the Cora thing. I didn't mind his big post like you did. I even saved it to talk about it but I decided not to. Essentially it seems pretty possible that he believes that what yamato did was genuinely misrepresenting him, even though what yamato said was actually totally fine. I *think* I'd expect a town-Cora to think that way more than a mafia-Cora, perhaps? I expect a certain level of productivity from him though which I've not really seen so far. So that mini-read will only get him so far. | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 09 2014 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote: See NOW you look like town Koshi but it took me drawing attention to you to get it, Dun like. Koshi why those specific posts? Are they just examples of how VA is not being his 'town self' and not doing anything (which I agree with btw)? And what about the rage vs geript part? BlazingHand got modkilled once for this line of argument. True story. | ||
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marvellosity
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Ok I left out the bits with the rage and the swearing. But LIII BH: marv is doing nothing, he mafia *marv does things* BH: marv is still mafia, he only looks town because i called him mafia marv: um... BH: yeah you retarded scummer, etc etc *modkill* | ||
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marvellosity
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This saddens me also. Hopefully something will turn up tomorrow. | ||
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On February 09 2014 15:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Fuck this I probably should just assume marv is town every game and just lick his asshole because he's often the only one that bothers to read anything I write. They call this "progress" \o\ \o/ /o/ | ||
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On February 09 2014 17:53 WaveofShadow wrote: No you know what? Reading that made me angry at VA's contribution level. And whenever I get angry at VA's contribution level he's town, without fail. That's where I stand on that. ##Vote: Koshi He moved off of it briefly to shut me down for basically no reason....and now I'm curious considering his stance on VA/Koshi. Like I remember thinking that I agreed with marv/Koshi but looking at VA's filter anew he's not cracking jokes and shit, true, but it's not about that. It's whether or not 6 months ago I'd be yelling at him for doing dick all. And in this game I would be 100%. A remarkable post because it contains reasonable length but nowhere in it does it explain why his vote is going back on Koshi (I'm aware it does in his next post, but... not this one) | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 09 2014 18:16 yamato77 wrote: So he doesn't read as scum? That's a non-sequitur. What I said was, this is similar to how he was playing in Quiet Game, which is true. Also, his reads are pathetically shallow and he doesn't seem very interested in furthering them, either. When asked, he basically just said, "Yeah, I think he (Palmar) is scum but I'm not going to do anything until he comes back." Weeeeeeeak. No one but Palmar has been strongly pushing any of their reads and I'm tired of letting these low-effort players play like this. I mean, this town is like, drowning in nonchalance. Where's the impetus? "his play is identical to how he played in this town game. It's also identical to personality 2 where he was town and only attacked his attackers. Therefore scum" That's your read yamato? | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 09 2014 20:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: Corazon, Vayne, VE, Holyflare, Odinslot, (Oats, Palmar) Who do we lynch? I think everyone else is town. I'm tending towards a default lynch at the moment and whenever I default lynch I lynch town. No bueno. | ||
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marvellosity
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Sorry yam. | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 09 2014 20:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's a default lynch? A default lynch is where I can't find strong reasons to think someone is mafia (xatalos LXIV, artanis/you Vengeful) but instead lynch someone for "not doing much" and "not caring about town" which are good heuristics that serve me well past day 1 but are fairly coinflippy on day 1. Let me go check Oats' read on you, that does seem off. | ||
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I ask because although Cora rages at me a lot, he usually doesn't do it in a way that insinuates I am mafia, so I'm not sure what his attitude towards other highprofile players in general is. | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 09 2014 20:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can't understand how he thinks i disagree with him but yamato is lying son of a bitch who is trying to twist his words. Right, bear with me here. Going to try to explain it from a possible townCora perspective, let's see if it's believable. Cora reads it like this: yamato - Cora is shitting up the thread just like geript is rayn - geript is being proactive and not shitting up the thread. Cora's reply: rayn is reading geript differently from me and that's ok, but yamato is saying i'm shitposting like geript which is unfair. How's that? | ||
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On February 08 2014 22:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think Cora is saying stuff for the sake of saying stuff. He brings up this weird "discussion about geript" which i have no idea where he is referring to in the first place. Then he he asks geript when he is gonna start scumhunting. But what i read at that point was geript being the most pro-active person in thread. | ||
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marvellosity
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Do you think the possibility of townCora doing that is less than the nonsense (non)read on you that Oats has? | ||
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marvellosity
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Activity is so low, so many players not playing. | ||
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marvellosity
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Never going to take a punt on VE when I'm confident I can read him given enough time. | ||
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On February 09 2014 22:07 Palmar wrote: in addition @Corazon: Is there any specific reason you wanted other people to look at me, instead of just doing it yourself and presenting your conclusion? @Marv: I think you're voting Oats, could you explain to me why? All I remember about him is that I noted his early question (the very question that started my intrigue into geript) was valid, but a bit "cheap" if you will, ie: it bears no meaning on his alignment, it's not a thoughtful or an analytical question. I've mostly ignored him since. But I'm all ears. Apart from the general washiness of inactivity and such, because of his unexplained vote on rayn. Seems more likely that a town Oats would pursue rayn in some fashion if he wanted to vote for him, but he doesn't mention him at all, so intead it comes across as a "this is the kinda dumb vote townOats would do, hehe". Unfortunately I can't pick anything more out than that to distinguish between terrible/mafia | ||
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On February 09 2014 23:38 Oatsmaster wrote: I could lynch marv today actually, his read on me is horribly lazy. Explain how it's lazy, or essentially you're just making stuff up. | ||
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marvellosity
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I'm happy to stop playing if that's the case, I don't care that much. Just let me know so I can decide. | ||
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marvellosity
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If there's players like Grack going "marv totally unreadable" when I'm extremely readable by people who aren't trolls or morons (I guess that rules Oats and Grack out, woops) and will lynch off the player most likely to solve the game later on just because, then the game isn't fun for me, and if Grack is town he is literally playing directly against wincon. I just want to know if that's how the rest of the game thinks we should be playing. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: Grackaroni Btw in this setup mafia will need to try to lynch the strongest players off, because they have a max of one shot to take away a townie, and the rest have to die by lynch. Grackaroni's "lol marv unreadable, ##vote" fits into this quite fine. | ||
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marvellosity
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Gosh, that never happens. | ||
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He's still not actually done anything. ##unvote ##vote: Corazon | ||
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On February 10 2014 02:01 Oatsmaster wrote: a vote is a significant amount of effort considering you only have 1 of them. Maybe I think marv is scum because im never around when marv is so I cant chat with him and shit. lol amazing line. Thank you Oats. | ||
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On February 10 2014 02:01 Grackaroni wrote: No I actually just think it's laughable that you think that people are scum for trying to lynch you. Now why did you think Corazon was town before, and why are you voting for him now? Literally not what I said. It was the accompanying reasoning for the vote, which I made abundantly clear. | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 10 2014 02:03 Palmar wrote: How about my wagon marv? help me instead? Your wagon is a bad one though. Corazon one might be ok. | ||
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On February 10 2014 05:55 Palmar wrote: ok I'm back. My reading of the last few pages has been a bit sketchy, but whatever. I don't think I want to lynch Kosher. Other people I don't want to lynch include WoS, Oats, myself, Risen etc. I worry about the Cora wagon. I pointed out some inconsistency in his play myself, but his random vote on me there before he switched is really head scratching if he's mafia. Now his is obviously not going to make much sense to anyone but myself, but given how he's been wanting to kill me and been casually calling me out all game, it seems like a strange vote as it makes it more likely he'll flip AND if he flips mafia he's basically confirming me as town. So knowing my own alignment, his move just doesn't make any sense if he's mafia. I'd much rather lynch somewhere into geript, marv, VE, rayn, or even holyfare. I'm unsure about yamato... Oh Palmar. Why so scummy? | ||
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marvellosity
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He screams to the hills, all day every day. I consider his play to be a virtual mafiaclaim, similar to Artanis in Vengeful. The most damning thing is that he didn't go "OMG MARV IS TUNNELLING ME LIKE EVERY GAME". I guarantee he does that if he is town. Corazon does not see a vote on him by me and say NOTHING about it. Nuh uh. | ||
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marvellosity
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really? for a throwaway suspicion? | ||
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On February 10 2014 07:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes dat Palmar post was pretty meh. Especially the second last line made me go "what??". And the last line Why the ... ? | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 10 2014 07:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Next thing to look is geript. Man that case on Grackaroni. I don't even know what to say. I... think I'm ok with the case. Not because I think the case is good, I just don't think it's badly intentioned. Especially the "I know this bit is weak" - I'm not sure geript is that sneaky as mafia | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 10 2014 07:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Who makes a case that says "Grack is mafia because Corazon lynch is too easy". srsly? That was only a little bit of it. And it's a valid concern. If Corazon had showed an ounce of emotion I'd have itchy feet right now. | ||
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On February 10 2014 07:25 Corazon wrote: Anyways, HF is probably town. He didn't need to write that much to +1 my lynch Geript is probably town, he's playing like he does every game as town...rage I'm never able to read VA, sorry  Koshi's vote on me is really suspicious and a giant sheep on everyone else. Oats is right Palmar's vote on Geript is still really scummy on me and he hasn't done terribly much this game either. Really guys, Koshi is the best lynch for today. Btw Marv, I figured that you would know you tunneling me would make us both town...looks like you haven't learned. But I didn't tunnel you, I just sheeped rayn's lynch. Nice addition of this line once I mentioned that you hadn't done it though, good job <3 | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 10 2014 07:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes i understand the concern, i don't understand what does it have tpo do with Grackaroni and how the case is presented it looks like it has. meh it's point #2 out of 6 points. It's not that central, I'm not sure why you're upset over it tbh | ||
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marvellosity
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Further, why lynch someone playing like you, instead of you? What difference would that make? If you're making the argument that you're town, then you're effectively arguing that we should be lynching other townies... | ||
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No, it was to VA, obviously. The dude I was talking to :p | ||
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It's like he's trying too hard to be weird and different but instead he's just saying crap. | ||
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On February 10 2014 09:23 yamato77 wrote: no, I pointed it out first. I was anything but "quiet about it" Who gives a shit who pointed it out first? I was never voting Cora because of you popping in and out the thread, rayn pushing it at me is what made me vote him. | ||
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marvellosity
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Because, as everyone knows, premature celebrations have the ability to change someone's alignment. | ||
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You say you get all the cred and no-one will agree with you, that's how it will go  | ||
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<3 | ||
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On February 10 2014 06:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Like I know I'm not in here writing huge cases or whatever but I've been forthcoming with my thoughts when I'm around...not sure what the problem is, and at least Palmar has given literally no reason. Tomatos reasons so bad, I have to wonder if I'm missing something. I was going to try to quiz VE about something, but found this and now I don't want to anymore. | ||
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marvellosity
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On February 10 2014 05:55 Palmar wrote: ok I'm back. My reading of the last few pages has been a bit sketchy, but whatever. I don't think I want to lynch Kosher. Other people I don't want to lynch include WoS, Oats, myself, Risen etc. I worry about the Cora wagon. I pointed out some inconsistency in his play myself, but his random vote on me there before he switched is really head scratching if he's mafia. Now his is obviously not going to make much sense to anyone but myself, but given how he's been wanting to kill me and been casually calling me out all game, it seems like a strange vote as it makes it more likely he'll flip AND if he flips mafia he's basically confirming me as town. So knowing my own alignment, his move just doesn't make any sense if he's mafia. I'd much rather lynch somewhere into geript, marv, VE, rayn, or even holyfare. I'm unsure about yamato... Moot now, but Cora flipping mafia evidently doesn't make you even close to confirmed town, you should know this with your experience General appeal to "subjective" and "objective" scumminess which isn't specific in this post but across the rest of your posts. There's no such thing as subjective or objective scumminess really, and pushing "objective" scumminess is a cop out for pushing bad lynches because people are doing "bad" things. Random-ass unexplained list of people you want to lynch, including me, who you should "subjectively" not be wanting to lynch by this stage in the game. Including me in this list makes you bad or mafia, and I hold you to higher standards than I do the rest of this game. Random ellipses with yamato, why even bother saying it? What is the whole post trying to achieve? | ||
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On February 10 2014 22:26 geript wrote: You just made me snort decaf coffee out of my nose. Thank you dear. That's what you get for drinking decaf coffee | ||
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On February 10 2014 23:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am mostly interested in why you need to loo kat me over yamato who did the exact same things than me on D1 except that i actually got my target lynched and he didn't really seem like he cared for the most of the D1. I was about to +1 this but I flicked through yamato's filter and he did actually talk about more people than I remembered him doing at the time. | ||
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marvellosity
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His move off Corazon felt really contrived towards the end of the day. Voting Oats with "shenannies" with this reasoning: On February 10 2014 08:52 VayneAuthority wrote: switch to grack? eh nah I don't see that yet. oats is a hail mary and I think he is due for a scum game and this looks like it so far. also not a bad lynch on it's own merit given what I've stated (it's pretty much like lynching me except not lynching me) - and then when pressed by me on how/why, he said: And yet, despite the fact it didn't look like his scumgame and maybe it was all some sort of game - his vote remained on Oats at the end of the day. Basically an astonishing misuse of his vote that apparently no-one notices or cares about. Because it's VA? | ||
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On February 10 2014 23:59 marvellosity wrote: Why do this thing that literally no-one else picked up on but me? the net of it is this Oats. Vayne decided to "shenannie" on to you and gave some vague crap reasons. Actually that's a perfectly decent play and if it had been left there it would look quite normal. The kicker is that I decided to press him on it and he actually had no good answer for his actions, and then he just shut up and hoped it went away. | ||
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On February 11 2014 00:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah Vayne looks pretty bad aswell. Do you remember what game it is that Vayne was mafia in and he made that small post about WoS saying he'd looked fine or town from his earlier posting, I pressed him on it, and he was unable to actually back up his post properly? Was it first iteration of LXIV? | ||
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On February 11 2014 00:10 Palmar wrote: Sure, it's strange, but are you certain there is benefit in mafia for doing what he did? I just decided it was illogical as either faction really. I don't believe "getting off a wagon" is a thing because anyone who is reading the game knows he was on Corazon, in addition he didn't do anything to claim credit for "moving off Cora". He made a random statement about the attitude of Cora that may well be right. I actually agree Cora's hyper aggressiveness at the end made him less likely to be scum. So why did he do it? Shenanigans? sure, but is that alignment indicative? Maybe it is, please explain to me why. I had a weak town-read on him for some early game posts. Most notably this one. This just felt like a pretty good random observation to make at the time. It's a bit of Vivax logic but I like vivax logic. Also this feels like sort-of straightforward attitude. I'm no expert at reading this guy obviously, but I need to be convinced that I should think he's scum. I wish he participated more though. VA makes more good observations as mafia than town because as mafia he knows all the answers already | ||
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On February 11 2014 00:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: marv what's your stance on VE? Dunno. His filter told me nothing at all but that doesn't have to make him mafia. See LXIV for similar I guess. I need him to interact with the thread. | ||
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On February 11 2014 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem is LXIV was a PM game, he was talking with WoS constantly and a lot. He in fact had thoughts, he just did not feel the need to bring them into the thread. This is a different game, he is just idk.. saying some random stuff?? That's how it feels like to me. He's not really trying to talk to anyone and doesn't care if people even pay attention to what he says. The stuff he says looks "clean" but does not really have an effect to anything. Hiding in plain sight if you know what i mean? There is nothing he is trying to accomplish, which makes sense as mafia especially given that Corazon was town. I know, I know, and I cannot disagree with anything you say. Like your paragraph is a perfectly good case on him. I'd just like to give him some more time I guess. I can see him playing this way as town. | ||
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On February 10 2014 06:52 Grackaroni wrote: This is the only part I'm going to address. I'm definitely less confident about being correct with reads this game; I don't have anyone I really want to lynch too strongly except maybe Marv but he's actually made himself hard to read by just refusing to chat with me. And yet On February 10 2014 09:34 Grackaroni wrote: Lulz Yamato. I probably should have known but Marv was super confident he would rage and that's just hard to ignore. On February 10 2014 10:05 Grackaroni wrote: Sooooo who's getting nominated? I bet it will be Marv/Palmar/Yamato and his playful "blaming" of me for the lynch don't seem to suggest a mafiaread on me. | ||
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On February 09 2014 17:53 WaveofShadow wrote: No you know what? Reading that made me angry at VA's contribution level. And whenever I get angry at VA's contribution level he's town, without fail. That's where I stand on that. ##Vote: Koshi "VA looks town because he's bad, therefore I will vote Koshi" His thing where your "buddying" of me felt bad also raised my eyebrows. And his VE attitude & interactions... On February 09 2014 15:24 WaveofShadow wrote: FUcking ##unvote ##Vote: VE He does this after literally talking about Koshi non-stop for the last century. Why? Because VE didn't answer his questions. Wave and VE have a kind of thang going on which makes this hard to assess. But given whatever their thang is, I find it quite odd that he's willing to throw a vote on VE because VE hasn't answered him yet? He then drops it because he apparently found an answer from VE that he'd missed. Then VE is kinda left behind and Wave goes back to only talking about Koshi/VA etc. | ||
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By the way your point that I didn't make is bang on rayn - for all his talk on Koshi/VA, he never really tried to convince people on to him very much, and he barely mentions Corazon. Ctrl-f Cora in his filter... he questions a couple of people about Cora, and on page 2 he says he doesn't like something from Cora. But that is *it*. He never gives a real opinion on the person who was heading for the gallows for a long time. Was Wave happy with the Cora lynch? Was his vote on Koshi because Koshi is mafia but maybe Cora is also mafia? If he thought Cora was town, he should have been campaigning against the lynch. If he thought he had a decent chance to flip mafia... then he certainly never said so. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On February 09 2014 04:41 WaveofShadow wrote: What exactly are you referring to do when you say 'geript being geript?' I don't know I'd go so far as to say he was 'shitting up the thread,' but it was him I was referring to when I said his early efforts seemed 'forced,' not you. Cora, I have a problem. See, you share ideas that I somewhat agree with in that I believe something is 'up' with geript, and this though, I suppose and obvious question isn't exactly alignment indicative when we're both thinking it, (btw Koshi I am VERY interested in this particular question) but this post. I hate it. On one hand it seems like the kind of stuff I'd say as town, (ie drawing attention to yourself by saying having no scum-reads might be a cop-out, being all apologetic) but then why does this only apply to you? Cora what is your D1 play normally like? But the it looks like you're drawing distinctions where you feel like drawing them. Like it looks like you're afraid of Rayn (or maybe me lol) and throwing suspicion at yamato when Rayn literally said it was yamato's post that made him think you were scummy in the first place! Also you're saying the scumteam is hugely lurky IS a cop-out. Do you think everyone who has posted so far is town? Is yamato scum for saying what he did? Attacks Cora, doesn't call him mafia but attacks him. Whatever, that doesn't have to mean the world. On February 09 2014 05:42 WaveofShadow wrote: Any relevant thoughts? Ohai VE, can we let's have talk plz? VE, why was Cora's answer here acceptable to you? It looks as though this was you letting HIM 'off the hook' considering how quickly he dropped it after a smile from you. And considering Cora's posting in the game so far, you categorize him as 'lazy' townie? He doesn't look lazy to me. Cora is scummy? On February 09 2014 10:34 WaveofShadow wrote: The rationale you explained actually does make sense, but the problem is like I said, it involves me simply trusting you and taking your word for it, and I can't do that. Since Palmar appears to be ignoring me for the moment, is there anything else we can discuss then? Thoughts on Cora perhaps and his refusal to 'defend himself' (when all I really expected was some sort of response)? Question... On February 09 2014 15:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Yamato do you think Cora is scum or not? You're harping on shit that has already been brought up: Or alternatively have a look at what I wrote about Koshi. Marv is the only person aside from Koshi himself who has bothered to talk to me about it. Also I just realized, we haven't heard from Holyflare and VE STILL hasn't answered my damn questions. This was the last I heard from him, I made my post and he hasn't responded to that OR the specific questions I asked him. Fuck this I probably should just assume marv is town every game and just lick his asshole because he's often the only one that bothers to read anything I write. Question... On February 09 2014 17:55 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm going to bed. Yamato consider VA and Koshi again. I believe one of them is likely scum. Both have done nothing all day. One is playing like ass and making no excuses for his play, and martyring to some degree. The other is acting odd as all hell, and hiding behind the strong players in the game. My money's on Koshi. Going to bed - no mention of main lynch target On February 10 2014 03:26 WaveofShadow wrote: Phoneposting Not following the rage from Koshi All he has done this game is suck up to the big names in this game and hide behind their egos Only does relevant things when attention is drawn to it/under pressure. Super town And I must say I hate this technique of bullying the hell out of people who vote for you Looks like you've taught Koshi well marv, soon everybody can act like an asshat. Vote stays---raging and acting antitown on top of a previous useless day doesn't make me want to unvote you, if anything it makes me want to remove you from the game more the only way I know how Back later Vote stays on Koshi - no mention of Cora We have this post after the lynch On February 10 2014 12:13 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright back. I can't say I'm entirely surprised with the way the lynch today went---I don't care what other people say it certainly did look 'too easy,' and while I doubt I would have necessarily fought against it, especially since my lynch wagon on Koshi lost any support, I would have at least mentioned that fact as geript did. (Make of that what you will, obviously can't prove any of it.) Cora didn't exactly look great to me either but I was waffling on it throughout the day so in the end I'm happy my vote is on scum, whether you guys are willing to believe it or not. Hindsight is a beautiful thing, isn't it? As is being absent (which normally Wave advertises in advance). The crux of the matter in the end is - do I believe his push on Koshi? so in the end I'm happy my vote is on scum, whether you guys are willing to believe it or not. Why would any townie be happy about this? And how can he possibly be so sure when players who know Koshi very well like rayn and marv are extremely sceptical of Koshi being mafia? Where does this misplaced assuredness come from I wonder? | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:26 Palmar wrote: Let's assume WoS is mafia. I take it to mean that your story here marv, is that WoS is softly pushing Corazon, but decides against joining that wagon in favor of trying to buy town credit for not being on the mislynch and then raging about it? Let's broaden the question too, do you think the wagon on Corazon was a "safe" wagon for the mafia. Do you think there are multiple scum on him? Bold - that's not quite it. Maybe I'm finding it hard to express clearly. It's not "softly pushing" - like whether he is softly pushing or softly defending or whatever isn't really the deal. The deal is more that he has very little clear opinion on the main wagon, which is pretty unusual for Wave, to say the least. I also don't think it's specifically about buying town credit either, although the last post I quoted kinda looks like that with the "at least i'm happy my vote was on mafia". It's more that I'd expect a clearer message on the main wagon. And how his Koshi push looks & feels. Yes, I think the Corazon wagon was a safe one. Without looking at the votelist, I'd expect at least 2 mafia to be on that wagon. | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar why does Holyflare look okay? I found his post about some of the votes worrying. This one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442512¤tpage=41#803 This to me (especially considering the timing) looks like "let's find some people suspicious given that Cora will flip town". This posts doesn't seem to be achieving anything and Holyflare brings it up later with a mindset that to me reads like "look what i said earlier". I think I'm ok with Holyflare at the moment. I remember something that Cora wrote: "Holy went to a lot of effort just to +1 a vote, looks like town" and I read that and thought "actually, usually mafia overjustify their votes, that's not right". But I thought about it a little bit more, and it seemed like *SO* much effort to go to to +1 a vote, that maybe it comes from town after all. Further when he brought up his post on voting, it felt more like that he felt he made good analysis that he wanted the thread to talk about, rather than mafia wanting to show off their contributions. | ||
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I said his focus on Prome looked suspicious, but he had more little posts that I felt were more likely to come from a town-Holy. I expect longer blocks of paragraph + text from a mafia Holy than I've seen this game. It's not conclusive but it means I'm not particularly interested in him atm | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: As in he explained himself pretty clearly and it could clearly be seen where his mind was at (as in who his suspects were and how he felt about the game emotionally). Here - especially right around the lynch and after that - his mind has been everywhere and there is no clear direction in his posts. Well, you have to understand I'm in the superior position of viewing him from a position of not knowing his alignment in both games | ||
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INTERLUDE. TERRIBLE META COMPARISON OF THE DAY: On May 22 2013 01:11 WaveofShadow wrote: Why does it feel like you're the only one who's ever around for me to interact with marv? On February 09 2014 15:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Fuck this I probably should just assume marv is town every game and just lick his asshole because he's often the only one that bothers to read anything I write. | ||
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On February 11 2014 02:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: marv, one thing. Look at geript's post where he says he has a town read on you and that he needs to look into my posts. Does it make sense to you? Afaik we have been pretty much on the same page, and geript has relied heavily on met areads in this game. Therefore i see no logic in those statements from town!pov, given especially the setup and the phase that's coming up where scum need to break up "town circles" in case they wanna get rid of strong players and/or cast doubt on D2 lynch in the first place. I'll be back in ~15, sauna the best. <3 Could you be a little more specific? I mean, you're not me and I'm not you. It's possible for someone to have a townread on me and not you and vice versa I suppose. And to people who aren't me and maybe only one or two others, you're more sneaky scum than I am :> No offence to geript, but him saying "I want to look at rayn" has about zero thread impact, it probably just means he wants to look at rayn. Also Palmar thinks geript is mafia which makes geript very likely to be town. | ||
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On February 11 2014 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he thinks you are town, given the meta between us don't you think he would think you have a decent read on me? Like you called me scum for my first post in the last game and called me scum in the end of D1 in the game before the last game i was scum and you were town in. Meh, maybe? It seems a lot less egregious than Wave ignoring what we think on Koshi, for example. I've never explicitly called you town this game I don't think either, I've just treated you that way mostly, which is more subtle and for people not-us isn't totally evident, and perhaps even if it was evident he'd like to have his own opinion. | ||
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On February 11 2014 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think this is a good heuristic. Palmar called "confirmed town geript" scum in LXI basically in all of his posts lol. The fact that I have to clarify that this is banter significantly lessens the impact of said banter. | ||
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No... You're looking at this through our eyes. | ||
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On February 11 2014 03:39 Risen wrote: I'm guessing a setup nomination to get rid of me. Completely nonsensical people being put up. can't tell if srs | ||
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Just reading the VE stuff, VE never thinks that "normally" for people calling what he was saying a "stretch". Town-VE had an exceptionally convoluted triple-bus theory for quite some time in Shadow. | ||
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On February 11 2014 04:48 WaveofShadow wrote: Is this a fucking bait? Because just tell me now so I don't rage even harder than I'm about to. I HATE being baited. Are you REALLY using meta on me from almost a YEAR ago that not only proves absolutely nothing and ignores all circumstances of the games in which they take place, but also completely ignores my evolving reads on you in the games we've played together since? Like last time someone pulled this terrible meta shit completely unabashedly it was scum Palmar in Thug life, and hey, what do you know, Palmar is here agreeing with marv for some ungodly reason. Like...I really don't understand the point of this nor do I even think I fully understand the meta comparison you're trying to make. Am I overreacting and is this a joke? Because if so I'm not sure I get it. Are you seriously reacting exactly the same way as mafia-DP to a totally obvious joke-meta post? Like srsly. | ||
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no, these theories are almost never right. | ||
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how can anyone believe that is serious? | ||
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On February 11 2014 05:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, arguably Palmar "didn't think Cora was town", but my opinion is that his posting looks like he doesn't even care if he's town or not, and the fact is that the Cora wagon was fast and it LOOKED like a town wagon. And that's a problem for me, because of the post above. As an aside, mafia-Palmar will do what you're expecting town-Palmar to be doing. reference: Rock Band. ScumPalmar threw a bitchfit that town was lynching prplhz on day 1 and refused to vote for him. So when you're expecting Palmar to do something as town, it's also something he mimics as mafia too, which definitely weakens the point considerably imo. | ||
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Also how post-lynch he is "well i had my vote on scum and i know it" to "I'm dropping this now because you guys say so" even though that didn't stop him at all before. | ||
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Indeed one reason you were suspicious of me in Shadow is because i hadn't customarily slapped you down... | ||
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Oh the weak doctor one was it? That made me unhappy. | ||
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On February 11 2014 09:11 WaveofShadow wrote: I am not going to swear at you right now because I don't want to be modkilled. Suffice it to say I am...disappointed in you marv. You truly make this game unenjoyable. I am going to eat dinner right now. When I come back, I am going to tear all of this shit right up and set things straight. This is basically totally unwarranted, but whatever. | ||
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On February 11 2014 09:12 Koshi wrote: I think WoS is town, sometimes he has good reads and people don't listen. Now he is all frustrated because he mistakenly thinks people don't listen but in reality people listened but don't agree. Probably town WoS mentality. Since when do you disagree with me when I think someone is mafia? Especially when I've explained with some detail. Odd. | ||
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On February 11 2014 09:32 Palmar wrote: oh well boring choice mafia. I suppose I'll spend some time writing my thoughts on every player in the game. Don't really anticipate surviving this. That's not really the point - do you *want* to survive it? | ||
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On February 11 2014 09:34 Koshi wrote: Reading those names I want to lynch marv or rayn tbh. Why? | ||
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That would have been 1000000x more interesting. | ||
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I always play as best I can, just sometimes as best I can still means I don't know what's going on, like most of Day 1. I haven't started playing more "townily" during the night phase there because I decided to start trying, it's because things started to occur to me a bit. | ||
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On February 11 2014 09:46 Koshi wrote: pretty sure you would be nominated even if you didn't say anything about WoS. ##vote: raynepelikoneet If you ask nicely, I can always move to Palmar. Currently I am on scum% = Palmar 1%, marv 3%, rayn 6% No, this isn't what I meant. And it's why i mentioned Grack. Before Grack set off the chain of events that led us all to talking about Wave, Wave was kindly widely considered a townread. So if that had been the case going into this phase, it would have been interesting to see if he was nominated when he wasn't under any suspicion. Of course I could be being grossly unfair on Grack here and it's all just circumstancial, that's the likeliest explanation indeed. | ||
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On February 11 2014 09:00 marvellosity wrote: The central accusation that rayn and I made against Wave still stands, specifically his non-attitude towards the main wagon in Cora + the stuff surrounding that. Also how post-lynch he is "well i had my vote on scum and i know it" to "I'm dropping this now because you guys say so" even though that didn't stop him at all before. Are you not reading the thread or something? | ||
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On February 11 2014 10:16 WaveofShadow wrote: lol. Do you honestly think that I as scum would be retarded enough to try and go up against strong townies in this game? Like I know I don't get lynched under normal circumstances, but given a choice of me you and palmar, me rayn and palmar, or me and almost WHOEVER, really, even were we all town don't you think I would be the most obvious choice as one of the weaker players who will prove to be less useful than the other two? Marv you complain about people not using their brains? Use yours. Please don't accuse me of not using my brain when you don't understand what I was getting at. I'm not certain you are mafia or anything. So if you were under no suspicion you may have been nominated and obviously that would have been pretty telling on your alignment. The way things went, we'll never know. | ||
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On February 11 2014 10:19 VayneAuthority wrote: at least these nominations clear me of being scum, I would never allow them no. | ||
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That doesn't feel very natural. | ||
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On February 11 2014 10:38 WaveofShadow wrote: I didn't say 'lol you guys are wrong.' I didn't rub it in anyone's face, I am just somewhat satisfied I had my vote on who I believe to be scum on D1. (And incidentally didn't contribute to lynching town). I did the same thing after being right about VE in shadow, didn't rub it in anyone's face, talked about what I probably would have done. Getting my thoughts across to thread. Nothing unnatural about it. Any townie thinks they have their vote on scum Day 1. It's just such a non-point because it's only irrelevant if you're twiddling your thumbs on some other wagon while barely commenting on the main one. | ||
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On February 11 2014 10:41 VisceraEyes wrote: :/ Dat feels when your strongest scumread says something you agree with. Ugh. It makes zero sense unless I am mafia and I am not mafia. Both Palmar and rayn would realistically know that if I don't want to get lynched I won't get lynched, so it's between them, and that's a pretty massive risk to take. And they can't really push that much for someone else to get lynched because then it kinda becomes obvious, so these super-important-for-their-team players are relying on their team-mates manipulating the lynch for them. That doesn't add up to me. | ||
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On February 11 2014 10:41 marvellosity wrote: Any townie thinks they have their vote on scum Day 1. It's just such a non-point because it's only irrelevant if you're twiddling your thumbs on some other wagon while barely commenting on the main one. Seriously, I can't get over this. "I think i had my vote on scum day 1"? Just wow. No fucking kidding if you're town. | ||
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On February 11 2014 10:41 VisceraEyes wrote: :/ Dat feels when your strongest scumread says something you agree with. Ugh. Which 3 players would you expect to be nominated if you thought it would be an all-town lynch? | ||
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On February 11 2014 10:51 WaveofShadow wrote: If you're trying to get me lynched because of that part of my post, then that is what you're saying, because I was trying to get thoughts across that I couldn't get across at the time. Are there other things you're trying to get me lynched for? No, it isn't what I was saying, and everything I've said about you, and it's been a lot, is in my filter. | ||
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On February 11 2014 10:53 VayneAuthority wrote: something sloppier. like marv/grack/wave now that would be a good nomination and be something i would do. this nomination is garbage and I would never do that if im mafia pretty much clears me. I wasn't asking you. Why is this nomination garbage btw? | ||
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On February 11 2014 10:55 VayneAuthority wrote: obvious, boring, gets rid of a good player Your attitude very much implies that you think the nominees are all town. The nomination is only garbage if it is indeed "obvious, boring, gets rid of a good player" The nominations are clearly not obvious and boring if one of the players is mafia. Bad Vayne. | ||
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Keep it up sexypants. | ||
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On February 11 2014 11:16 WaveofShadow wrote: Except for what my role PM says, of course. Just because god-marv says it doesn't make it so. I really have no idea where you've gotten this attitude that you're completely infallible from. It's so unbelievably frustrating to deal with. I was talking about Vayne, christ. Get over yourself. Nowhere in this game have I suggested I was infallible, in fact I've been abudantly clear that I've not been certain on most of my reads. | ||
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On February 11 2014 17:53 Palmar wrote: Let's discuss it for a bit, and for the moment let's assume I'm town, because that's actually important for the discussion at hand. Why does this vote make yamato scum? Does it make sense for scum-yamato to do this? Given the assumption that marv is not the one who's going to die from the nomination, why on earth would scum-yamato place his vote on the one person that is most likely to be alive to give him a hard time later in the game. I'm not saying he can't be scum, it's just food for thought. For all these reasons. Why would he? For any sort of defence like this. What's important really isn't that he's voting for me, rather he shows a complete lack of attentiveness to the thread, work/schoolwork or otherwise. | ||
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On February 11 2014 18:32 Palmar wrote: This conversation is making Kosher look pretty good btw, I like his train of thought. Well done, you got there eventually. | ||
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Do we get a vote this phase? | ||
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##Vote: marvellosity | ||
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I'm not throwing a hissy fit, but when there's 2 people who are enjoying the game and 1 who isn't, then things are fairly simple, no? | ||
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yeah I guess he's town. | ||
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His filter was like 7 pages for the first cycle there | ||
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VE should have no reason to think I'm mafia though, none at all. He's played with me like 30 times. He should know better. | ||
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Would basically lynch anyone with a vote on me that I didn't sanction. They're bound to all be mafia. | ||
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On February 11 2014 20:27 Palmar wrote: I'm actually not certain of yamato, there's just so many scummy people. Like if we say VA, VE and yamato are scum, only one out of Oats, Holy, geript, WoS and Grack is scum. I feel that group has more than one dude of red. If VA and VE are mafia together they have been exceptionally sneaky. | ||
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The two *cannot* go together. If he is town he believes the picks are garbage and therefore we are all mafia. Or he believes the picks are not garbage at all because someone is mafia. | ||
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oops! | ||
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On February 11 2014 20:39 Palmar wrote: I think marv makes an excellent point. @marv trying to draw this picture of the game would you say VA is your no1 scumread? yes, because i caught him with his pants down twice now. | ||
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On February 11 2014 22:08 Koshi wrote: Palmar, you believe marv is a sincere, genuine and correct townie whos reads you clearly trust. But you want to lynch him? I asked to be lynched, what's the problem here Koshi? | ||
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Why is it so hard to get lynched on TL Mafia? I had to fight for 100 posts to get lynched in Vengeful too, it's supposed to be easy. | ||
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On February 11 2014 22:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: There are no posts of your that make any sense to me. You keep coming up with some stupid lies you admit are lies and you keep calling people scum for some fucking stupid %'s. You have not done anything in this game besides calling me mafia which you do every game regardless of your alignment and then you even think you can read me. Here is a pro-tip for you, calling someone scum every single fucking game with reasoning like "he voted a townie for mayor, scum yo" does not qualify as a read. You are doing it again and if we do not lynch me you will keep doing it and then we most likely lynch you because you are being an idiot. Cmon, that's not very fair. | ||
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I don't really know how to read Grack though, because he doesn't ever do anything. As mafia in... Golden Sun, he came across very sensibly, kinda like here. | ||
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On February 11 2014 22:33 Palmar wrote: I think that mafia team is a long stretch. Also I don't know why geript/grack cant be mafia together, I thought that push was clearly half-assed. They could be, hence why only "less likely" rather than not possible or unlikely, something like that. | ||
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On February 11 2014 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because those people, if mafia with Grack, are bussing him or the other way around. If that's the case then i don't mind because mafia is going to lose because they run out of mislynches. WoS and grack need to call each other scum. Grack is calling Vayne scum already, geript has to call grack scum, okay maybe VE could be mafia with him because he has this fishy "idk how to read grack so i just ignore him kthxbye" stance. Holyflare has a scumread on Grack and an converstion "going on" where he is accusing Grack. So, good job bussing to the limit if Grack is mafia. Mafia won with that strat quite recently if you recall :p | ||
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Useful conclusion that one :D | ||
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On February 11 2014 22:56 Palmar wrote: btw is this normal holyflare play? big cases, loooow activity no. He's usually quite active as either alignment. Had a 25 page filter or so as mafia in LXIII. He might just be busy, I dunno. | ||
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On February 11 2014 22:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Im back!!! Looks like all 3 are town, which one is the most useless? I guess im fine with lynching marv if he doesnt want to play although I personally really want rayb dead. Why do you want him dead? | ||
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On February 11 2014 22:57 Palmar wrote: yeah, but the same with reyn, really. As long as marv is okay with dying, and willing to give us all the answers we want from him, I think this is a triple townie setup and one of us has to die. marv is bored so w/e. And if I'm unwilling, you won't lynch me? :p | ||
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On February 11 2014 22:58 Palmar wrote: It wasn't a conclusion, it was a clarification that my scenario did not mean I had a scumread on grack and was justifying it, just noting the possibility. Oh btw Palmar, I was referring to my own conclusion there, not yours. | ||
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On February 11 2014 23:10 Palmar wrote: Lets try yamato. It's really hard to tell when he's not participating. yamato happily uses real life excuses when he is mafia (ref: Fruity mafia). On the other hand his posting on day 1 when he was around did seem straightforwardly arrogant and angry like I might expect from a town-yamato. I'm confused why he isn't reading me as town by now. Tied into this, I wonder why he's willing, without any thought at all, to kill the player most likely to solve the game when it gets later. That's at the very least careless and lazy. | ||
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On February 11 2014 23:15 marvellosity wrote: It's really hard to tell when he's not participating. yamato happily uses real life excuses when he is mafia (ref: Fruity mafia). On the other hand his posting on day 1 when he was around did seem straightforwardly arrogant and angry like I might expect from a town-yamato. I'm confused why he isn't reading me as town by now. Tied into this, I wonder why he's willing, without any thought at all, to kill the player most likely to solve the game when it gets later. That's at the very least careless and lazy. Thinking a little bit more about this, maybe he's town after all. I remember him posting on day 1 something like "and whenever you're ready to play the game, marv, instead of just sheeping me" - that does at least line up with him thinking rayn&Palmar are considerably townier. | ||
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On February 11 2014 23:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: People always think yamato is mafia and i always defend him. I find it hard to believe he would come up with such lazy ass posts as scum because he WILL be discussed and he is quite easy to catch when he is scum. His D1 looked quite townie to me. that's the definition of scumyamato though | ||
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On February 11 2014 23:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: marv do you think yamato would call you scum or want to lynch you as mafia (or straight out say so) on this phase? His vote on me is just lazy and poorly thought through. The fact it's me is a sideshow. | ||
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Defending someone as readable and then casually saying you could lynch him is pretty sketch. | ||
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"defaulting to lynching Vayne" who is not unreadable? How does that make sense? | ||
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On February 11 2014 23:56 Oatsmaster wrote: personally I would rather play in a game without rayn than with rayn. Does this work? That's enough to "personally really want him dead"? When did I become town again? | ||
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rayn, dear reindeer :OOOO | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is a set of posts that bother me the most about VE. Especially the bolded parts. He kinda says i am mafia because why else would you write the bolds? But right after the nominations he says i am an universal townread (which was not even true). These two do not go together very well for me. No, what he's saying is that you are town and you think he's mafia (and you're possibly tunnelled), so you're just trying to make him slipup and reveal things rather than talk genuinely about his scumreads. However, that doesn't actually make the posts look any better, because if he's town and he thinks you're town, he should be looking to convince you that your scumread on him is incorrect. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well apparently he thinks i am town. Has VE just become 100x worse player he used to be? Like what's that shit then? I'm not sure, it's kinda insidious. I don't know if you remember in LXIV, he kept telling people to go away who thought he might be scum. For example I read coag as clear town in that game because he'd engaged in VE, VE had told him to shit off, and coag thought he'd caught VE (they were both town for anyone wondering). I think VE did the same to you as well maybe? This game, those posts... they aren't that blatant compared to LXIV. You've not come across to me as particularly tunnelled on VE, so his posts repeatedly saying he won't engage with you because you're just going to be unfair come across quite badly indeed. | ||
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Mafia-VE has never ever been afraid to push an agenda, and I don't really see it very much here. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh hi! Gosh am I interrupting?! How are you today, sweetcheeks? How did your filter-dive last night go? | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:26 marvellosity wrote: One thing about VE that makes me wary of being sure he's mafia is that I somehow feel that as scum he'd push some agenda more. Mafia-VE has never ever been afraid to push an agenda, and I don't really see it very much here. Just requoting this because I think it's kinda an important thing to think about. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: The thing is does he really have to? Or rather has there been a point in this game where he needed to d oso? We were pretty set on lynching Cora on D1 because he decided it was cool to not play at all. There was pretty much nothing mafia needed to do and especially considering me, you and palmar are very very VERY likely to be town why would you need to push any agenda instead of keeping options open when one of yours is not even close of getting lynched? Well the thing about VE is that it's not really that he "needs" to, he just "does". I don't remember a single scum-VE game where there isn't a clear direction in his play. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Correct me if i am wrong but VE's play has changed a lot since his last scumgame? yeah, but imo that doesn't really change the central point. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:31 Koshi wrote: Another question asked by Grack that got answered and then nothing. You're right, and it was a bad, "gimme" question too. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:50 VisceraEyes wrote: A SUSPICIOUS DROPPING INDEED MY FRIEND. no not really. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:53 VisceraEyes wrote: K marv. Don't explain why or anything, just state it casually. Because you're totally skewing how things went down. Koshi getting feels that VA is mafia and dropping it when he's under large pressure himself despite talking about it quite a lot beforehand is not in any way an unnatural town reaction. Plus he looks really quite town anyway. Nothing about Koshi's read on VA seems manufactured or false or scummy. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:55 VisceraEyes wrote: He continually referred to VA as his preferred lynch marv. If VA flips scum, then Koshi is confirmed mafia, end of story. So what if he did? Koshi is confirmed town and he can quote this post to defend himself during later lynches if he wants. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:53 Risen wrote: I just want to lynch palmar because I can't trust him. This triple "town" nomination is really, really messing with my head. That and the other two have the potential to be lynched later. Palmar is making it all the way if he's scum and doesn't get lynched here. Also I'm in love with rayn (belt bros) and have an insane urge to not give marv what he wants. VA is clearly a troll so unworthy of the crown. I'd lynch him, but I'd rather lynch VE or something. The amount of circlejerk in this thread is making me paranoid. This is just fucking awful, because it basically means you haven't bothered to read and appreciate the argument I made regarding VA. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:53 Risen wrote: I just want to lynch palmar because I can't trust him. This triple "town" nomination is really, really messing with my head. That and the other two have the potential to be lynched later. Palmar is making it all the way if he's scum and doesn't get lynched here. Also I'm in love with rayn (belt bros) and have an insane urge to not give marv what he wants. VA is clearly a troll so unworthy of the crown. I'd lynch him, but I'd rather lynch VE or something. The amount of circlejerk in this thread is making me paranoid. Also explain this rather than just stating bullshit. The first nomination in the last game was triple town as well. What of it? | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:59 Risen wrote: I read it boss. You have a problem with the contradiction, I don't. I've changed my entire thought process between posts as town before and contradicted myself so I don't look at it as damning in other people unless they're making some sort of argument No, the point is he's holding totally conflicting thought processes *within the same posts* That's not changing your mind or your thought process, that's thinking A and B simultaneously when they're mutually exclusive | ||
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Try it sometime <3 | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:04 Grackaroni wrote: No he's right. If Palmar is scum then he can make it to the end without having to do much else of anything this game; we are pretty much accepting he is town at that point. Everyone can be reevaluated. And again it's just paranoia for no reason. He's either town or he isn't. Thinking in "what ifs" is just silly. "What if marv is mafia and he's trying to get himself lynched but he trusts that the rest of town won't actually want to lynch him and lynch someone else and then town thinks marv can't possibly be mafia because he pushed really hard to be lynched in nomination 1. This way marv can make it to the end coasting on that cred." I can make any kind of scenario like this, but it's dumb. | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:09 Risen wrote: Expresses his thought that there's one mafia. You ask him what three he'd expect from an all town lynch. He doesn't say he thinks it's an all town lynch right now. What am I missing? Read the posts where he says that the nominations confirm him as town because the nominations are garbage. I ask him why they are garbage and he says because the nominations are safe/boring/obvious. The obvious implication being that all the nominees are town, because you can't hold this viewpoint otherwise. All this at the same time as the posts you are quoting. | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:13 Risen wrote: I didn't get that. Feels like I'm forcing him to be town because he carried me in league and I like him. I like rayn too, didn't stop me pursuing him like a bitch in heat last game :d | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:13 VisceraEyes wrote: Yes yes, we will if we have to marv stfu. I've never been wrong when I've guaranteed someone's alignment. Just factor that in <3 | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:14 Risen wrote: Marv why don't you pay LoL? I plan to... I just haven't got around to it | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:15 VisceraEyes wrote: That means, literally nothing about Koshi friend. <3 Of course it does. marv has 100% track record when he's sure. So it's likely if he's sure on the n+1 time he's right about that too. That's just maths | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:15 Grackaroni wrote: Alright so we're settled. The scum team is Vayne/WoS/HF/Geript. you're my current #2 scumread. | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:17 Risen wrote: Like he KNEW koshi was town or something There's literally no reason to think that... someone saying "this looks town" does not mean someone knows he's town. His evolution of read on Koshi looks very natural. Read his whole filter, I guarantee you'll find it looks natural. On February 12 2014 00:21 Grackaroni wrote: Oats thoughts on Koshi? On February 12 2014 00:54 Grackaroni wrote: That is bad because Koshi is obviously town and because you are saying the person that pushed the hardest on Vayne is scum because he gave up after other people didn't want to lynch him. On February 12 2014 01:15 Grackaroni wrote: Alright so we're settled. The scum team is Vayne/WoS/HF/Geript. Why is Grack asking the first question? Especially given post #2 and #3. | ||
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"also, Oats isn't a scumread anyway, just thought I'd ask for giggles" | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:39 Koshi wrote: Can people also just vote. I mean. yeah yeah all town yabba yabba. But I want to see the votes. Also. marv. You should give 100% guarantee on both Palmar and rayn or you are not allowed to kill yourself off because that would be so incredibly lame and you would really fall so far off your pedestal because you joined this game and then died advocating your own misslynch (yes it is a misslynch when consensus is that it are 3 townies but inreality it isn't). Last I will say about it. (But probably not) traveling home and going to turn down activity for today and sleep fast. I can't 100% guarantee, but I think it is very, very likely. | ||
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On February 12 2014 04:26 VayneAuthority wrote: kill holyflare after I flip town, basically got exiled from this game because you guys think this is a court of law or something pce nothing at all stopping you playing the game. i seem to recall you being quite proud of the fact you don't tend to get mislynched, so peacing out of the thread is quite incongruent with that | ||
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On February 12 2014 05:28 VayneAuthority wrote: it's my word against some one that is terrible at reading me but they will follow you anyways because that is TL mafia. it's nothing to do with "my word", btw it's just me demonstrating how your posting doesn't make sense from a townie perspective. If you can somehow, miraculously, rationalise what I talked about, I'm all ears. Please, go ahead. | ||
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But it's impossible Koshi is mafia. He's physically incapable of producing 11+ pages of filter in this timescale. God comes down from above and prevents him posting that much when he is mafia. | ||
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On February 12 2014 08:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Lol at all the nominees voting for themselves. Yeah fuck this game...if the people who scum want dead don't even want to pay then I can't be bothered either. Gg scum. This is not really fair. We all have our reasons and only mine is laziness or what you want to call it. Do you genuinely believe the 2 who wouldn't get lynched are going to be apathetic and stop playing? Actually, VE, this is fucking bullshit. rayn, Palmar, and I spent a lot of time and effort today discussing everything under the sun, and you have the god-damn temerity to come in with this bullshit? We spend half the day trying to solve the game, you pop in and out and say "gg scum, don't wanna play because these guys don't"? That's just trash. | ||
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I think you might actually be town but you look a lot fucking townier when you actually play the game. And you're not being ignored. People may disagree with you, but not generally ignore. And yes, I just got home, so unsurprisingly I will come and talk in the thread for a bit. | ||
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Finding it almost impossible to pick out any sensible 4 man team. geript, wave, wos, va, oats, grack... could be any of them, and probably mafia outside these names too, and I just don't know. Sucks. | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:28 Palmar wrote: like I'm sure one of ve/oats/yamato is town, but it's impossible to figure out who. And then there's the people that are just not playing like geript and VA guaranteed. quite possibly even 2. shrug. | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:28 VayneAuthority wrote: holyflare is mafia 100% that will be my best contribution to this game. why don't you tell us why? | ||
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gl hf town, sorry for not being super useful this game. | ||
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this has just made not getting lynched approximately 5000% more lame. | ||
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On February 12 2014 17:33 yamato77 wrote: You weren't reading the exchange. Marv calls it "rayn's lynch" (before the flip) when rayn is just sheeping me anyway, and then wants to be a prick after the flip and make it my fault Cora flips town. Every need to be a dick about it. Fuck marv, and the rest of town, if that's how effort is to be rewarded. Not read the rest of the thread except this last page. yamato you are being totally ridiculous. Quite obviously you are no more to "blame" for the Cora flip than you were pre-flip. The difference is that you don't look swell from it because he didn't flip mafia. This anger is totally unwarranted. | ||
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On February 12 2014 18:01 Palmar wrote: I'm not going to go back to verify what you're claiming is true here Keirath, but I don't see how that is mafia mindset either. Assuming your premise is true, that yamato initially wanted credit for the lynch, and then blamed cora, why would mafia do that? Mafia already knows there is no credit to be taken from the lynch, right? So why would scumyamato want credit. If the rest of Keirathi's posting looks like this, I won't be particularly impressed | ||
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He's had ample opportunity to answer very simple questions from Palmar & I. Added to the fact he refuses to explain his stance which originally made me suspicious. | ||
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When I'm one of the ones staying calm in a game something is really odd. | ||
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Ofc iamp almost certainly hasn't warned him privately, but his play if he's town is pretty much breaking "play to win" rules. He's done 2 things with his read on Oats and his comments on the nominees that he's refused to explain, and he refuses to explain why Holy is mafia. Whatchagonnado | ||
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It seem you do not. What is causing you to disagree with all of us? | ||
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Not being funny Palmar, but what's the point of your post? What do you think it's demonstrating exactly, alignment-wise? | ||
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On February 12 2014 23:14 Palmar wrote: I'm actually surprised you don't find this interesting marv, unless of course you had already noted the same. I just don't find it that telling for his alignment. Don't ask me what I do find telling though, because I couldn't qualify that to you very well. | ||
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On February 13 2014 00:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Why is this game so hard. I wish yamato/wave would play. Hey Grack, what proportion of mafia to town would you nominate day 4? This question strikes me as exceptionally odd. | ||
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On February 13 2014 01:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Not gonna respond to Keir case because there's a lot of words there saying "VE hasn't done much". I can't contest that claim, so rather than respond to it I'll just do stuff. Reasonable? I thought so too. Do you have any opinion on Keir based on his case? | ||
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Does it look like a case made on you because it's super easy to make a case on you because your play has been "lacking" and he's just picking up on these aspects blindly because it's convenient to do so Or does it look like he's genuinely thought about what he's brought up and why it makes you, VE, mafia, instead of town Or is the truth perhaps somewhere in between and you can't tell | ||
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On February 13 2014 01:57 marvellosity wrote: meh. I guess what I was getting at was this. Does it look like a case made on you because it's super easy to make a case on you because your play has been "lacking" and he's just picking up on these aspects blindly because it's convenient to do so Or does it look like he's genuinely thought about what he's brought up and why it makes you, VE, mafia, instead of town Or is the truth perhaps somewhere in between and you can't tell Anyone can answer this question if they like beeteedubs. In depth reasoning gets extra brownie points. | ||
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On February 13 2014 02:00 Palmar wrote: I'm never mean to you unless you're scum or I'm scum or you're wrong or you're right and I'm scum. Highlighted the important bits, as far as their relationship usually progresses xD | ||
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marvellosity
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mine was purely the Palmar-perspective | ||
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On February 12 2014 05:31 Holyflare wrote: also will most probably be voting for palmar because i think marv's/rayn's read are more correct and they can read me a lot better alsoooooooooooooo giant walls of text will be coming This certainly never happened. | ||
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marvellosity
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HF looks considerably worse if VA flips mafia really. | ||
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On February 13 2014 02:18 Grackaroni wrote: You've sheeped me before. That time I killed the town Palmar. And then Supersoft got really pissed off. Quite a good reason not to so again :p Whenever I sheep I lynch town :/ | ||
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marvellosity
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:< | ||
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On February 13 2014 02:25 VisceraEyes wrote: Well do it and tell me if you agree or not. I think it makes him look rul bad. Hmm I dunno. He does talk about differences between how he plays to start off, and explains what he's looking at, and then pulls quotes from a couple of different games to explain that point. I think it looks ok. I think he could write that whole post from either alignment, which isn't very helpful I know. | ||
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On February 13 2014 02:32 Koshi wrote: I am not talking much today because I am sad my town buddy rayn died. Shameful thing that it happened. ? you were the one pushing for it most | ||
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marvellosity
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#organisation | ||
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marvellosity
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And if VA flips mafia then his random-ass mafiaread on Holy looks pretty terrible. | ||
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On February 13 2014 03:19 VayneAuthority wrote: The notion that I am playing against wincon is hilarious; I've given some reasons why it is foolish to think I am mafia but what ya gonna do. The majority of the activity happens while I'm asleep and waking up to 500 posts of "VA is mafia" everyday and nothing else pretty much makes me lose interest, since I am not mafia and the entire thread is going to be worthless once I flip town. you've still not given a single reason why holyflare is mafia top job if you're town bro, top job. I've left the door open for you numerous times to come back and play, every time you come back and whinge like some snivelling little bitch. | ||
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On February 12 2014 10:06 marvellosity wrote: Vayne, why is Holyflare certain mafia? On February 12 2014 10:17 marvellosity wrote: Vayne you are in no way condemned, so if you are town shape up and answer some really basic questions. jeez. time is of the essence etc On February 13 2014 00:50 marvellosity wrote: now if Vayne would come and play a little we may yet have an interesting day I've never been tunnelled, I've always given him chances. | ||
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I'd like Palmar to come say things, I'm kinda busy this evening. | ||
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On February 13 2014 04:22 Risen wrote: I'm down for stopping potential shenanigans. ##unvote ##vote: vayneauthority On February 13 2014 04:25 Risen wrote: I'm down for lynching any of ve, keir, hf, va can anyone tell me how these posts even come close to going together? | ||
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it's tempting to sheep Grack to see if i can get him some glory | ||
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On February 13 2014 06:26 WaveofShadow wrote: Please tell me other people are reading this. Wave I'm finding it real hard to side with you this game, and not because you've been snippy with me. If I'm picking sides I'm on yamato's side. | ||
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##Vote: Holyflare how about it Palmar? | ||
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On February 13 2014 06:30 WaveofShadow wrote: So you find no logic in what I'm attacking yamato about and you think his random OMGUS vote out of fucking nowhere is legit? Despite the fact that he said he'd actually look closely in the first place? your play as a whole feels very shit-flingy. | ||
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On February 13 2014 06:36 Risen wrote: I was told this was because Wave's voice play was very different from his forum play. Dunno, just feels off. Can't really justify lynching him today but if i could flip somone for free i'd do it | ||
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marvellosity
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And when townies basically refuse to play then meh. I'm not even sure what point I'm making right now. I just got "feels" Wave. Risen: sure, why not. I mean he could well be mafia and Grack would be pumped if he flipped mafia probably. That would be cool. | ||
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Took me a couple of attempts with rayn and now I read him flawlessly game after game. But it wasn't always so. | ||
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Did anyone actually notice that before we started the game? lol | ||
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LYNCH ALL THE PEOPLE | ||
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On February 13 2014 07:03 Holyflare wrote: What sense is there to keep both marv and rayn in the game when they can both read me well and kill off palmar who had a town read on me? x_x?????? wat? | ||
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marvellosity
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At some point during the early nomination phase, when we'd all been nominated and I hadn't attempted to fall on my sword, Palmar went through rayn's filter and said it was "very, very likely" he was town. Given I'm extremely unlikely to get lynched given my level of activity + the fact i can't even get lynched when i demand it, that seems like a weird thing to do, he simply doesn't have to be that sure rayn is town. also i sense a certain fallibility in his play that seems much more likely to come from town than mafia. | ||
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##vote: VayneAuthority | ||
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On February 13 2014 08:03 marvellosity wrote: not got time to think about this, sorry i'm in the middle of something right now | ||
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let's just hope for the best :D maybe i'll have been shot at deadline, otherwise i'll read all this mess then | ||
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fuck being distracted on that day 2 lynch when i was contemplating being off VA on to one of two mafia. Lame D: | ||
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i was bad for trolling palmar about geript and being afk for the important day 2 lynch palmar was annoying for ignoring you for postcount when i had like 10 good reasons for you to be mafia a game of what ifs and nearlies for town. especially that damn day 2 lynch. | ||
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btw i'm only talking about the stuff when i was alive, i didn't follow enough after to know what you did then. | ||
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On February 19 2014 09:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Well I look forward to next time then.  Also yeah...this game was so damn frustrating at times...I think there may have been a little scum bias involved but I still have no fucking clue why you guys said Koshi/Grack are town. Just so many reads, so little analysis all game. Koshi was just blatantly town. Lynching Koshi was just a massive mistake for town, Koshi is active and doesn't troll and I guaranteed him town. He would have been one more player being active and pushing town along. Apart from the d2 lynch that was a massive blunder by town to lynch Koshi. Grack was town to me because he was pushing Holy way too hard on day 2. If he was scum he could kinda push Holy on that day 2 and essentially go "oh noes, i guess we lynch VA" but by fuck did Grack push Holy, that was totally unnecessary and persistent for a mafioso to play. That was my reason anyway. | ||
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On February 19 2014 10:00 VayneAuthority wrote: i mean its not even close, WoS played far and away better then the other 3 scum but whatevs lol matter of opinion. the case against wave was pretty strong early on, it was just ignored. | ||
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On February 19 2014 10:02 WaveofShadow wrote: lol what was the case against me early on? I don't even remember. I think it was like you calling me 'shit-flingy' or something. your whole push on koshi was nonsense, then you said "well i'm just glad i had my vote on mafia at the end of the day" which no townie ever says ever, into promptly dropping the case for no reason. That was the central story, there was attitude gubbins around that. | ||
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On February 19 2014 10:17 Grackaroni wrote: Vayne plays a lot Palmar lol. He understands how to go about defending himself; he just didn't feel like trying to save himself in this particular instance. Which was dumb. It was his little Holy case that made me reconsider lynching him. There is no good reason I should have had to ask for it 8 times with the first 7 times all being ignored. That's just stupid. | ||
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On February 19 2014 18:13 VisceraEyes wrote: That first nomination could have been Risen/geript/Oats. geript lives in that nomination approximately 90% of the time. He then becomes soft confirmed town the rest of the game. He plays a mean soft-confirmed town too, except that he replaced out. What happens when me/Palmar/rayn play like we do N1 and become unlynchable AND town gets to kill an Oats or Risen instead of a rayn or marv? wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin for town. | ||
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On February 19 2014 18:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Like I think it's legitimately more difficult for good players to differentiate between bad, or low content trolly players than it is to differentiate between good ones. Do you disagree? yes, of course. rayn/palmar/koshi were the easy townreads because they actually tried. it will always be so. | ||
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On February 19 2014 20:22 Palmar wrote: One day I hope I get into a mafia game where everyone tries. That'd be good. Shadow mafia, which you probably declined to play in :p | ||
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On February 19 2014 20:43 Palmar wrote: Not trolling. And while I think there is very little chance anyone listens to it, there is always a tiny chance. No reason we should tolerate anything like this. When you're out of the game you've ceased to have the right to have public opinions on anything in the game until it's over. I am very much in favor of strict rules. (I hand out modkills like candy if I need to in my games). All it takes is one idiot to read too much into a message like this, and let's say for a second that Cora holds the same amount of respect as someone like marv, or syllo or foolishness does... boom, the game is no longer valid. Such lies, you don't pay enough attention to your own games to hand out anything <3 | ||
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Anyways, host Storm II sometime... :> | ||
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