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I'm first to admit this is associative reasoning, but I don't like the way that cakeman has set himself up regarding Oats.
Most of the time he's arguing against lynching him, but in the back of my mind I feel like he'll just swap over whenever its convenient.
On February 05 2014 04:15 cakemanofdoom wrote:
Other things about oats feel more weird than scummy. Like with his insisting that you post your opinion first, I can imagine town doing that (I would probably have trouble reading someone who sheeped me) even if I'd prefer if he were open with his thoughts.
Oats's contradiction with his stance on koshi's policy doesn't seem scummy to me. It's a bit hard to explain, I think it sorta makes sense for him to disagree with the policy, and assume that it was bad enough that it was meant to make scum slip while attacking it. Him saying that Koshi's policy was bad is a required step of explaining his thought process. Then again, I'm also not sure why he thinks town isn't just as likely to attack the policy if it's so bad.
So yeah, I'm not convinced oats is mafia, but a response from him would be nice.
And I really wanna get the super quiet people posting before lynching oats.
The last two lines here demonstrate my point perfectly.
He does a similar thing with Jay where early on, and for a decent amount of time
+ Show Spoiler +On February 04 2014 12:52 cakemanofdoom wrote:
I think jay's townie. Some of his posts are way wordier than they need to be imo, but I like most of his reasoning, and that seems more important than whether or not he's posting fluff. On February 05 2014 13:46 cakemanofdoom wrote:I don't want to lynch jay today. He's posted too many sensible things that I don't want him gone yet. I also think that it's pretty reasonable to focus on generating discussion and getting reads rather than posting cases and trying to get people lynched, especially when it's still early on in the game. I'm willing to lynch LM. Mostly because of lack of content. The questions he asks aren't too bad, but he doesn't seem to be doing anything with his answers. At this point I'd prefer lynching hopeless, nothing even on the level of LM's questions yet. I think Koshi might be scum. He started off with a policy meant to generate discusison, cool. But the next time he enters the thread, he explicitly claims that he's just gonna be lurky and let others talk. Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 22:27 Koshi wrote:
I have no interest in calling out people already. In 24 hours you will know more.
I would like Jonny to explain his arguments against me though. I am actually upset about the fact my early posting is "shitposting" tbh. Seems like he's trying to get away with non-contribution, and wasting most of his day 1 by being cryptic. He ended up posting a case on Jonny, which was bad and atm it looks like Koshi doesn't stand by his own case. Jonny's actions regarding the LM vote actually do make sense. Koshi also accuses Jonny of having a scum mentality for talking about his own waffling... even though Jonny was responding to a question and Koshi thought that too. I don't know why Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 08:18 Koshi wrote:
Because I do not get this worked up about a read as scum. I dont post this much as scum. I dont react this fast as scum. It is literally impossible for me to be scum atm.
The part about him being scum.is.because he is not trying to read me.
In bed atm sleeping. Koshi also has a defense post. But it doesn't seem to me like he's that worked up about a read, and it doesn't feel like he's posted all that much (well, his filter is kinda long. Main reason I'm not totally convinced he's mafia). I can't believe his claim about fast reactions in my position.
"Jay is town, we probably should lynch jay" (those posts are ~24 hours apart)
And then 1.5 hours later waffles like he's at an IHOP
On February 05 2014 15:10 cakemanofdoom wrote:
I think Koshi is mafia. My last post went over why.
I'm starting to think jay might be mafia. He seems to spend a lot of time defending himself, not as much looking for mafia. Still don't want to lynch him soon since he's so much more active than some people. His main case was on LoneMeow, which I didn't like that much; I really don't find much that's especially scummy about LM. Not too sure yet, this will probably be greatly affected by how jay posts from now.
LoneMeow and Hopeless were lurky. Can't really tell if they're mafia from that, but they're fine lynches.
Hopeless's more recent posts don't seem very substantial. Bad sign imo.
Need to think about/read alaska and suki more. I thought suki was mafia for a bit, then she seemed to post and try.
Once again:
"Jay is town because...."
On February 05 2014 13:46 cakemanofdoom wrote:
I also think that it's pretty reasonable to focus on generating discussion and getting reads rather than posting cases and trying to get people lynched
"Jay is scum because...."
On February 05 2014 15:10 cakemanofdoom wrote:
He seems to spend a lot of time defending himself, not as much looking for mafia.
Jay never posted in between these two posts.
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On February 06 2014 01:10 Oatsmaster wrote:hopeless why you make me feel bad about calling you scum 
because you had no basis for calling me scum and now you feel foolish for trying to go for the easy mislynch. Sorry oats, better luck next time. You gonna explain your read on Koshi this time? Thats the non-omgus part of my case.
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I'm still thinking you Oats...Koshi gets upset and says you should be reading him as town by now, so you proceed to read him as town. Seems legit. I'm willing to lynch cakeman, wont lynch LoneMeow*.
*Unless I have to in order to save myself
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@LoneMeow
You're right about how cakeman isn't making sudden leaps in his reads. That's not really the point I was trying to make though. Jay hadnt posted anything further between "I don't want to lynch Jay" and "I think Jay is mafia".
Those two thoughts should be considered as contradictory. I shouldn't need to say this, but town wants to lynch mafia. All of the possible evidence for both independent thoughts were already in thread at the time of posting each thought. Its the fence sitting that I think is scummy about him. Suki points out (in the same quotes) how he does the same thing regarding you LM.
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On February 06 2014 01:25 Koshi wrote:
Also, I defended you like mad in the game we were masoned as town. Why do you forget that and paint it scummy this game?
you were mod confirmed mason? Or was this LXIII?
Also I read your case on Jonny as pointing out a progression of "LM totes town" to "I could lynch LM". Jonny never actually gets all the way to the end of that progression. This is the post that is closest to saying he'd lynch LM, but that is only to plant the thought that its a possibility, not that he'd actually do it:
On February 04 2014 11:14 JonnyLaw wrote:LM hasn't given us quality or quantity yet. He says one thing then does another. It's early in the game for me to demand more quality of his posting. At least as far as considering lynching him. Hi cakeman. Please don't become lynch bait by not posting if you're town. + Show Spoiler [@balla] +
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Oats is being really blase about my case. I'll try this again:
Koshi super scum for opening post:
On February 04 2014 15:32 Oatsmaster wrote:
suki nullish, dunno why she is attacking you though, bad reasons but not inherently scummy.
Cakeman also null. Same with johnny. i mean, nobody is really pushing shit and its hard to figure out if they are posting for the sake of it or posting to find scum. Literally throughout the whole 7-8 pages there is no concerted effort to push someone by anyone.
Koshi scum for suggesting a really bad policy about post counts and nothing else. It feels like bait for scum to jump on but there is no followup.
Koshi super scum for everything after opening post:
On February 05 2014 00:57 Oatsmaster wrote:
1. Scum will go and shit on Koshi for it because its bad and scummy.
2. yeah suki and some other dudes.
3. My first thought was why is koshi proposing such a useless policy.
mannnn Koshi's shitposting is AFTER his first post.
Koshi totes town for opening post (This is more of an inferred read based on his response at the end of suki's case):
On February 05 2014 08:59 Oatsmaster wrote:##unvote Koshi
##Vote hopelessI never said Koshi's policy to catch scum was a good one.  I dont get it though, the cases against me just seem to be summarizing my play.
I don't see the progression anywhere in his filter. Oats' reasoning comes down to
On February 05 2014 14:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
slam is town because scum dont refer to their scumplay when playing scum unless they are playing way way differently.
In reference to this post from Koshi (second quote in this post):
On February 06 2014 01:15 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 01:13 Hopeless1der wrote:On February 06 2014 01:10 Oatsmaster wrote:hopeless why you make me feel bad about calling you scum because you had no basis for calling me scum and now you feel foolish for trying to go for the easy mislynch. Sorry oats, better luck next time. You gonna explain your read on Koshi this time? Thats the non-omgus part of my case. oh its this that made me change my mind, it was mainly a pressure vote to get him to start playing. Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 08:18 Koshi wrote:
Because I do not get this worked up about a read as scum. I dont post this much as scum. I dont react this fast as scum. It is literally impossible for me to be scum atm.
The part about him being scum.is.because he is not trying to read me.
In bed atm sleeping.
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On February 06 2014 01:48 jaybrundage wrote:
Does anyone else think that Hopeless being gone for twenty four hours. Coming back and getting on the popular sentiment of oats being scum and the two cases on him. While also OMGUS'ing Oats is a bit suspicious?
It seems like he made was just pushing Oats back cause he needed to come back in the thread with something. After calling Oats scummy. He made up his own case so he wouldn't be blatantly sheeping.
I tried blatantly sheeping and got shot down Jay. I thought Oats was scum. Am I supposed to spam "OATS SCUM KILL IT" and leave it at that? I'm also not simply tunneling Oats to infinity.
You haven't actually commented on the case. Can I get your thoughts on how you feel about Oats claiming everything early on re:Koshi was just pressure?
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LoneMeow would you be so kind as to drop a vote so we have a better idea of where you stand?
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##unvote
##Vote: cakemanofdoom
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On February 06 2014 02:39 Balla24 wrote:
Hopeless can you elaborate on why you would only vote LoneMeow to save yourself?
He's fully aware of the fact that he looks bad and is able to compare his own status with my own. I feel like he'd have taken a shot at getting me lynched when he was asking jay about why himself and not me. He's been in a similar state to me where a majority of the thread is offhandedly commenting that "he's bad, I could lynch him for being useless" (referring to both me and LM). However there was never a real push to get him lynched (except Jay and the more recent developments) whereas there has been one on me. Again, why not just take the "easy" way out? He still hasnt dropped a vote after repeated requests, despite having 2-3 viable targets to say "lets get this guy".
The reasoning for debating cakeman's scumminess or why koshi's case on JonnyLaw is flawed looks good to me. He doesn't beat around the bush so I end up with a good understanding of what he's thinking. His questions are pointed and aim to get more information into the thread. The worst thing about him is that he rarely follows up with his questions, but koshi is dead on when he mentions LXIII.
Pre-edit to your amended question
1) answered above
2) I know I'm town duh. Silly question.
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On February 06 2014 03:05 LoneMeow wrote:Why are you voting the same player as your scum read Oatsmaster?
Because Oats isn't getting lynched by the looks of things. There is sufficient reasoning to lynch either of them independently of the other.
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Oats is slightly higher because I dont buy his "itz just pressure" defense and cakeman has yet to respond so far.
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balla pretend the votes are 5-5 and my vote is on cakeman. Its 5 minutes to deadline. What do I do?
I disagree that taking ages to develop scumreads is waffling.
@Jay
Oats/Cakeman/???
Sidesprang for the lulz comparison to HF->Toad I guess. I dont really have third candidate.
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On February 06 2014 03:30 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 03:23 Hopeless1der wrote:
balla pretend the votes are 5-5 and my vote is on cakeman. Its 5 minutes to deadline. What do I do?
I disagree that taking ages to develop scumreads is waffling.
[ I didn't say that, I said he's beating around the bush. Not that he's being indecisive. As town, I don't think you should have gotten yourself in that kind of situation. If you really think cakeman is scum, and the votes aren't going in your way, and you've done everything you think you can to convince town that you are not scum, lonemeow is not scum and cakeman is. Then you shouldn't vote lonemeow to save yourself because YOU THINK he's town, and the town sentiment clearly thinks you are scum. You saving yourself will just make you be a HUGE question mark for the rest of the game.
In that case town sentiment is so wrong that I am obligated to keep myself alive as the sole voice of reason to salvage a terrible situation. You are wrong sir. As any faction, one should never roll over and die.
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On February 06 2014 03:30 LoneMeow wrote:
Can we lynch Koshi? The way he's not participating in the discussion about cakemanofdoom is scummy as hell.
That's not an OMGUS at all LM. I don't really want to lynch Koshi though. What does it say about cakeman that koshi isn't participating?
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On February 06 2014 03:38 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 03:34 Hopeless1der wrote:On February 06 2014 03:30 Balla24 wrote:On February 06 2014 03:23 Hopeless1der wrote:
balla pretend the votes are 5-5 and my vote is on cakeman. Its 5 minutes to deadline. What do I do?
I disagree that taking ages to develop scumreads is waffling.
[ I didn't say that, I said he's beating around the bush. Not that he's being indecisive. As town, I don't think you should have gotten yourself in that kind of situation. If you really think cakeman is scum, and the votes aren't going in your way, and you've done everything you think you can to convince town that you are not scum, lonemeow is not scum and cakeman is. Then you shouldn't vote lonemeow to save yourself because YOU THINK he's town, and the town sentiment clearly thinks you are scum. You saving yourself will just make you be a HUGE question mark for the rest of the game. In that case town sentiment is so wrong that I am obligated to keep myself alive as the sole voice of reason to salvage a terrible situation. You are wrong sir. As any faction, one should never roll over and die. I would of been happier if you felt obligated to not leave the thread for 24 hours. You must know why your being lynched. At this point I would just get all your thoughts out. In the unlikely case that your town. Acting like its town's fault for your lynch is a bit egotistical.
woah I never said its towns fault for lynching me. I'm not going to cite the many instances where I self-depreciate my own play by calling it scummy because I do it in damn near every game. However, Balla is telling me I should kill myself to save town the grief of reading me later. Do you agree with him? I should knowingly allow a guaranteed mislynch to occur?
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I equate waffle to beating around the bush. When LM mentions people are kind of scummy he says why. When he has reservations about someone he says why. You never have to drag it out of him. You instigated a confrontation with him at the start of the game when his meaning was abundantly clear: LM lurks hard. There is literally no other way to interpret his statement that makes logical sense in context. I would say that is your shortcoming in understanding him, not that he was being uncooperative or vague.
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On February 06 2014 03:49 suki wrote:
first off modkilling oneself is not in the spirit of the game.
second, you're all seriously pressuring Hopeless solely on the point that he was afk for 24 hours? He can't do anything about that now but he seems to be putting in effort now.
I'm not advocating for self-modkillage.
Balla: If you've done everything you can and town still wants to lynch you, you should let them
Hopeless: No. I should save myself.
Jay: You didnt try hard enough. Why didnt you try harder Hopeless?
Hopeless: I'm hypothetically suggesting literally have a deciding vote to save myself. Should I take it?
Jay: But you shouldn't have been in that situation to begin with!
->This doesnt actually address what I said
Jay wtf can you read the argument I'm trying to address?
- Yes I played scummy. I'm trying to correct that. Your argument has no place in the context of my conversation with Balla.
- If I can save myself, I'm going to. It is the correct play based on the information available.
Balla are you taking issue with the fact that I brought up the point about how I'd lynch LM over myself? The context of "I want to lynch scumread, I do not want to lynch townreads" isnt clear?
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On February 06 2014 04:03 jaybrundage wrote:
@Hopeless Oh, I wasn't addressing your hypothetical situation in my post. But yes if you could save your self and your town you should take it.
but not if I'm scum
/waiting on Jonny's next post.
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On February 06 2014 04:13 JonnyLaw wrote:Here's two things to look at regarding Cakeman. In this game people were suspicious of Cakeman on d1 for the same reasons hopeless pointed out in his case. Cakeman was town, was not lynched and end gamed the scum. The qt should give you some insight into cakeman's thinking. http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/gA5BjwKEXfQnhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&user=cakemanofdoomOnto hopeless v cakeman. + Show Spoiler +On February 06 2014 01:19 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 01:09 Hopeless1der wrote:Once again: "Jay is town because...." On February 05 2014 13:46 cakemanofdoom wrote:
I also think that it's pretty reasonable to focus on generating discussion and getting reads rather than posting cases and trying to get people lynched "Jay is scum because...." On February 05 2014 15:10 cakemanofdoom wrote:
He seems to spend a lot of time defending himself, not as much looking for mafia. Jay never posted in between these two posts. If you look at both of the posts in their entirety they're far less damning: Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 13:46 cakemanofdoom wrote:I don't want to lynch jay today. He's posted too many sensible things that I don't want him gone yet. I also think that it's pretty reasonable to focus on generating discussion and getting reads rather than posting cases and trying to get people lynched, especially when it's still early on in the game. I'm willing to lynch LM. Mostly because of lack of content. The questions he asks aren't too bad, but he doesn't seem to be doing anything with his answers. At this point I'd prefer lynching hopeless, nothing even on the level of LM's questions yet. I think Koshi might be scum. He started off with a policy meant to generate discusison, cool. But the next time he enters the thread, he explicitly claims that he's just gonna be lurky and let others talk. On February 04 2014 22:27 Koshi wrote:
I have no interest in calling out people already. In 24 hours you will know more.
I would like Jonny to explain his arguments against me though. I am actually upset about the fact my early posting is "shitposting" tbh. Seems like he's trying to get away with non-contribution, and wasting most of his day 1 by being cryptic. He ended up posting a case on Jonny, which was bad and atm it looks like Koshi doesn't stand by his own case. Jonny's actions regarding the LM vote actually do make sense. Koshi also accuses Jonny of having a scum mentality for talking about his own waffling... even though Jonny was responding to a question and Koshi thought that too. I don't know why On February 05 2014 08:18 Koshi wrote:
Because I do not get this worked up about a read as scum. I dont post this much as scum. I dont react this fast as scum. It is literally impossible for me to be scum atm.
The part about him being scum.is.because he is not trying to read me.
In bed atm sleeping. Koshi also has a defense post. But it doesn't seem to me like he's that worked up about a read, and it doesn't feel like he's posted all that much (well, his filter is kinda long. Main reason I'm not totally convinced he's mafia). I can't believe his claim about fast reactions in my position. Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 15:10 cakemanofdoom wrote:
I think Koshi is mafia. My last post went over why.
I'm starting to think jay might be mafia. He seems to spend a lot of time defending himself, not as much looking for mafia. Still don't want to lynch him soon since he's so much more active than some people. His main case was on LoneMeow, which I didn't like that much; I really don't find much that's especially scummy about LM. Not too sure yet, this will probably be greatly affected by how jay posts from now.
LoneMeow and Hopeless were lurky. Can't really tell if they're mafia from that, but they're fine lynches.
Hopeless's more recent posts don't seem very substantial. Bad sign imo.
Need to think about/read alaska and suki more. I thought suki was mafia for a bit, then she seemed to post and try. It's not like he's saying "jay is town" and then suddenly going "jay is scum". More like a gradual shift from "I don't want to lynch jay" to "jay seems scummy but..." LM got it right. That's a very town line of thinking. He's considering the options regarding Jay and thinking about the game. His line of thinking is very transparent. Jay's contributing so he doesn't want to lynch him yet. If Jay's town he'll be helpful and if not he's posting enough we can catch him later. In between those two posts that hopeless picked out the scummy parts there was a lot of discussion regarding Jay even if he didn't post himself.From the linked game. Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 05:16 cakemanofdoom wrote:
I don't like how July suddenly picked poofter (who had 0 votes beforehand) out of the lurky people to vote for. It can only cause confusion at this point. I wanna keep my vote on July atm.
I guess I'm suspicious of odin enough to vote for him if it comes down to him. I don't have a lot of trust for the current voters, but I'm not trusting a lot people in the game period so I guess there's no way around that. Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 05:30 cakemanofdoom wrote:
At first, I didn't want to lynch odin before he had more chances to read and talk. And others seemed more scummy to me at the moment. Odin was suspicious to me, but it didn't seem like it would be possible to get him lynched.
July's posts are erratic, but I can see mafia motivations behind his most recent one so I like the lynch. Odin's chaos wasn't that close to voting deadline, and I think conversation starting was still a good idea at the time.
He does this a few times in the game. It's town thinking about the game and working it through their mind.
Show me?
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EPT
