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On February 04 2014 20:22 marvellosity wrote:Why rayn is probably mafia: Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 17:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I did not like Holyflare at all in the beginning. It felt like he was doing the same thing to DarthPunk that Artanis did to me as scum in the NMM, which was to piss me off for no reason. Which brings me to this:
-snip-
That being said i like his recent posting much more.
Why even say this about Holy? What's the purpose? What does it tell the thread? Absolutely nothing, it's padding for the sake of looking like he's saying something. Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 17:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:marv, you made this post: On February 04 2014 11:09 marvellosity wrote:
The absolute best thing for mafia in this sort of game is to have townies riled up and wanting to take vengeful shots. Ironically.
Mafia have much less space to hide in if people are rational and aren't self-hammering just so they can shoot the person that can piss them off.
Anyone should be able to see that that is absolutely the best thing for mafia. Worst thing for mafia = everyone being rational so they can't take funky shots if they're lynched under the guise of emotion or having a laugh. Maybe Artanis is town and he's not going to bow to the will of the people, but if he's in danger of being lynched, it should be clear how and why his top suspect is, and we can go off that.
So if I assume you're town, DP, then whatever it takes for this not to happen is what you gotta do. Because I'm not having tits throw this game away because they're pissed off and they want to shoot people. In your opinion, is it only DP who is to "blame" here? Why d you think it's only DP that needs to calm down and not Holyflare who needs to not provoke people in a way that he KNOWS pisses them off? I made an extremely sensible post that it's almost impossible to argue with, and yet rayn spends his time picking at who I'm directing it to? Nooooo no. Naughty.
I brought up Holyflare to clarify what i thought at that time and to clarify why i questioned you about your post.
Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 19:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
tbh marv you have been useless so far.
You have seriously commented on three things (Artanis' scumclaim, DP's rage and townread on iamp) which two of them are not even alignment indicative based on your posting.. Personal but subjective, I think rayn would have got more out of my posting up to that point in the game. Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 19:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 04 2014 19:19 DarthPunk wrote:
As to prome. Yeah the pushing the asleep people was fucking weird, and I had not noticed his lack of follow up on HF actually. Also it was weird how defensive he was about answering questions and promoting discussion with me and then he backflipped about it when I voted for him.
I don't mind him pushing people based on process of elimination if that's the case. I find it impossible that he thinks "everyone posting so far (all people but me and Ceph) looks so town". Ok, he's talking about Prome here. But look...! Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 19:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And the thread was filled with bullshit when i got online.
Tell me marv, what was more important in the thread than what i said? rayn had zero reads except... Prome! So why was it beyond rayn's belief in the last quote that Promethelax thought that everyone posting so far was town? No sense makey makey.
Because there was not much alignment indicative stuff in thread -> it's imo impossible to think "all people who have posted are town" and THAT is an easy way to say something to look like you are contributing. If you can't see that idk what thread you are reading.
Again, if you think there is something else i should comment on why don't you tell me what that something is?
I also decided before the game that i am going to be more passive and not a usual shithead who jumps on all the places. Yes, i would do that as mafia aswell, but that does not mean i am mafia. Also, this is the perfect game to start because i don't give a fuck if you lynch me because i can just shoot mafia.
Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 19:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 04 2014 19:54 DarthPunk wrote:On February 04 2014 19:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
DarthPunk marv is not mafia. How do you figure? Because he just is not. Do you think he would do this shit as mafia? This is like fucking begging to get shot. TOO LATE. WRONG REASONS.
This is just lol.
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On February 04 2014 20:38 marvellosity wrote:Only time I ever remember someone saying, on day 1, "these lurkers scum, everyone else townie" was Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 16:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
Name someone you find scummy this game.
Can't? Okay. Process of elimination. Dunno why it's a mafia thing to say at all. Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 20:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 04 2014 20:22 marvellosity wrote:Why rayn is probably mafia: On February 04 2014 17:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I did not like Holyflare at all in the beginning. It felt like he was doing the same thing to DarthPunk that Artanis did to me as scum in the NMM, which was to piss me off for no reason. Which brings me to this:
-snip-
That being said i like his recent posting much more.
Why even say this about Holy? What's the purpose? What does it tell the thread? Absolutely nothing, it's padding for the sake of looking like he's saying something. On February 04 2014 17:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:marv, you made this post: On February 04 2014 11:09 marvellosity wrote:
The absolute best thing for mafia in this sort of game is to have townies riled up and wanting to take vengeful shots. Ironically.
Mafia have much less space to hide in if people are rational and aren't self-hammering just so they can shoot the person that can piss them off.
Anyone should be able to see that that is absolutely the best thing for mafia. Worst thing for mafia = everyone being rational so they can't take funky shots if they're lynched under the guise of emotion or having a laugh. Maybe Artanis is town and he's not going to bow to the will of the people, but if he's in danger of being lynched, it should be clear how and why his top suspect is, and we can go off that.
So if I assume you're town, DP, then whatever it takes for this not to happen is what you gotta do. Because I'm not having tits throw this game away because they're pissed off and they want to shoot people. In your opinion, is it only DP who is to "blame" here? Why d you think it's only DP that needs to calm down and not Holyflare who needs to not provoke people in a way that he KNOWS pisses them off? I made an extremely sensible post that it's almost impossible to argue with, and yet rayn spends his time picking at who I'm directing it to? Nooooo no. Naughty. I brought up Holyflare to clarify what i thought at that time and to clarify why i questioned you about your post. There was no point clarifying what you thought. "he looked bad now he looks ok". Why bother saying it? Why did you need an "introduction" to pointlessly talking about my post? Na. Baddy.
On Prome; It's a mafia thing to say because the reasoning for saying so is shit.
On the second point; If you don't understand why i say something then i can't help you. 
In the last couple of games i have been called out because i am not being clear enough. Here you call me mafia because i am trying to be clear. Fucking terrific.
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On February 04 2014 20:43 marvellosity wrote:
bugs' reasoning was also non-existent. Doesn't make anyone mafia.
I do not care about what Bugs' reasoning was because he is not here in this game. Maybe Prome will come here and tell me why everyone looks town in his opinion.
The thing about Holyflare is that it does not matter if it was an "obvious joke" or not. He very clearly knew exactly how DarthPunk would react to what he said, probably regardless of his alignment. What you were saying was basically that there are two people clarly just throwing shit at each other for no reason, you call that anti-town, but you only call one of the people out for it. Yes, i find that fishy. Apparently you did not realize that Holyflare KNOWS what happens to DarthPunk when he does that.
Anyways i am not interested in defending myself because there is nothing to defend.
Why are Artanis & Wave scummy?
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Okay dude. I try this one more time. 
It was not unreasonable to call for calm atmosphere. It was pro town.
To me it seemed like you were accusing DarthPunk for shit atmosphere, when in fact Holyflare was as much to blame for it. Yes, later on Holyflare dropped it and that is one reason i am leaning more towards him being town. He was clearly trolling at the start of the game and when thread went shit because of it he dropped it and started making reasonable posts. However, at the time you made your post HF had not dropped it. Going into rage mode (which DP did) is in my opinion not as scummy as silently making people go into rage mode (which HF did). That is my opinion and if you disagree with me fine, then you do. If yo uthink it makes me scummy fine, then it makes me scummy for you.
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On February 04 2014 21:02 marvellosity wrote:
HF had nothing to drop... he made one joke post on meta and one seriousish early case that wasn't so great. What was Holy supposed to be "dropping"?
The whole "let's bully DP" attitude. Come one man, it was quite obvious that was what he was doing.
Also how can you call me mafia based on me saying "I think Prome is scum because he can't possibly think everyone who has posted is town" when you disagree with Prome in the first place as you said Artanis in your opinion has done nothing townie?
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I mean there are two possibilities:
1) What i say is right, and Holyflare trolled DP (yes, even in his "serious" case), or
2) What you say is right and there was nothing to drop, which brings me to;
Why did he then drop it? Why did he go after Wave and Prome if there was nothing to drop?
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On February 04 2014 21:15 marvellosity wrote:
If your accusation on him had included "but I think x or y (in this case Artanis) aren't townie, how can he think this" then I'd be more sympathetic, but you didn't say that - you made it into a general point, and as a general point it's meaningless.
How does me thinking someone who has posted might be mafia have anything to do with if Prome's argument is legit or not?
Obviously, as i disagree with him, i think there are/were people who did not look townie. Yes, one of them is Artanis. Another one was you at that time. Although Prome explained his read on you, he said what Artanis did was not alignment indicative, and that's all Artanis has done.
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On February 04 2014 21:16 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 21:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean there are two possibilities:
1) What i say is right, and Holyflare trolled DP (yes, even in his "serious" case), or
2) What you say is right and there was nothing to drop, which brings me to;
Why did he then drop it? Why did he go after Wave and Prome if there was nothing to drop? Because he decided DP wasn't so scummy and other people were? :OOOOOOOO
And you know this how? Did Holyflare ever say so? Because i must have missed it if he did.
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On February 04 2014 14:45 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 12:00 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 04 2014 10:49 Holyflare wrote:On February 04 2014 10:45 iamperfection wrote:
dp can get emotional as town.
answer my question dp its quite a simple one. Yes. There is a difference though. Getting emotional in the game when people aren't doing something or are town that aren't listening is when it mostly happens. Getting emotional at someone pushing "shit cases" and being "awful" shouldn't trigger those same emotions though, your first thought should be that they are scum pushing an agenda and then further investigate. Especially as DP has said "HF is a good town player that I listened to" (in Titanic). So if he thinks I am being shit in this game he should jump to the conclusion that I am being scum. Yet, this anger relates to someone that has a scum mindset of a towny pushing a case that doesn't "make sense to me even if I AM scum". Catching up, but....um...did you or did you not read my reactions to Toad's/Foolishness's terrible cases on me last game? Your conclusions are completely wrong imo. Toad's case was legitimately beyond terrible. This case was totally unjustified rage on a case that wasn't awful. How can you equate the two things at all? The fact that 3 people jumped onto him because of that shows that other people agree why so have you taken the opposite point of view? Please explain how my conclusions are wrong.
Actually he hasn't even dropped it. It's in the sidelines in his post about Prome.
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Ugh.. In fact the construction of the posts from HF on page 18 is really odd.
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I am not trying to argue anything marv. I am trying to clarify to you why i said what i did.
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On February 04 2014 21:33 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 21:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not trying to argue anything marv. I am trying to clarify to you why i said what i did. Yes, and my point is there was zero reason for the post you dopily critiqued should have been aimed at Holy, because he only made one troll meta case. In no universe should I be telling Holy anything when all he did was make a joke case. It was purely DP getting upset and threatening to do irrational things, so my post was aimed at him. I'm confused how you could get that so mixed up.
yes you are right because i missed the small paragraph about DP in his post on Prome.
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On February 04 2014 21:33 marvellosity wrote:
Anyways I'm not interested in talking about you or your alignment anymore because it won't go anywhere.
I'm interested in what you have to say about Holy if you'd like to tell me though.
It's the way he posts on page 18.
After you and iamp disagree with his case on DP, he makes a big post about Prome. But at the top of the post there is a small paragraph about his case on DP. He does not really seem to want to argue with you or iamp about his case (which he apparently still believes is good - and that's why it makes very little sense to NOT argue about it).
After his case on Prome he makes another big post about Wave, which ends up in voting for him. To me it feels like he does not want to argue about his case on DP with you or iamp, but he does not want to drop the case either. And instead he "hides" his disagreement with you into two posts where he also changes his target (but he is still able to bring DP up later if needed).
The case on DP somehow fades away but it does not really fade.. if you get what i mean.
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On February 04 2014 21:44 marvellosity wrote:
How do you feel about the content of the cases themselves on Prome and Wave?
Prome:
I don't find the strategy talk scummy. In fact when Prome pointed out the "let's shoot the top 2 read and make them shoot #1 scum" thingy made me feel iffy about DP. I don't get what HF is saying there. I liked the point on "I feel better about lynching Cephiro" HF brought up. It makes no sense to me for Prome to want to lynch Cephiro over me for some reason if he thinks at least one of us must be mafia and neither of us have posted. I don't get the "mindset" argument.
Wave:
I also found it odd that Wave agreed with Artanis' claim thing and then didn't really have evidence to back it up althoguh he implied so. I do not like the meta points he brings up against Wave, especially after Shadow game where i felt like Wave was wishy washy as fuck (sorry wave ^^) on D1, and imo he usually acts the same way. I don't get how you can make a meta argument against someone who has played scum once, like 9 months ago..
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In conclusion some things are good some bad, but i can't tell for sure until wave/prome actually answer HF and i see how the discussion continues.
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Why the fuck would you ask Wave about DP in a post where you talk about Prome if the next post is a case on Wave?
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On February 04 2014 08:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 08:33 iamperfection wrote:
Wait lynched people don't flip that seems backwards Yeah. My idea was that we should lynch the person we think is the second likeliest to be scum and tell him to shoot the person we think is likeliest to be scum. If he doesn't agree then he's claiming scum.Problem with this is that part of the fun in this game is to shoot who you want to shoot and I'm not prepared to sacrifice that so I'm kinda against my own plan. Bit of an objectively best plan vs most fun kinda deal.
On February 04 2014 11:15 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On February 04 2014 11:09 Promethelax wrote:
I kinda really want to lynch DP for martyring.
I hate people who vote themselves in IML.
Policy: all lynches occur on the third day of the day cycle. It's not the same in this setup because you get a vig shot bro. one bad shot and lylo. Totally the same, lynching scum>vigging them. Actually maybe not now that I write it down. Would prefer to lynch a townie who was on the margins of looking scummy and have them shoot a scum. It will confirm two alignments.Was thinking in the pre game if one player is kicking ass and taking names for town scum may actually choose to bus to be able to use their shot on said player. We should not be too confidant that those who push scum are town. There is valid reason for scum to bus even when neither scum is in danger.
ehhh.. Aren't the bolded parts the same thing?
If Prome had thought these things pre-game as he says why did he not agree with Artanis in the first place instead of asking people if they think Artanis' scumclaim is alignment indicative?
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Holyflare what did you actually mean by the setup thing you talked about in your post on Prome?
I have a hard time following what you are trying to say there.
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On February 04 2014 22:51 marvellosity wrote:
I don't understand the connection between the two things.
Basically, Artanis' point is good. If we lynch our #2 scumread and make them shoot #1 scumread, they "confirm" themselves as town in case town's #1 scumread is mafia, right? Therefore we know the alignment of the lynched player in case the #1 scumread flips scum. If they are both town, then it's a shame and we just fucked up on our reads but the same thing would happen regardless. If they are both scum i doubt mafia would shoot another mafia because that's just fucking dumb.
What Prome suggests is essentially the same thing, unless he is saying we should lynch someone who might be mafia but is not in town's top 2 scumreads. If that's the case the suggestion is really fucking dumb in the first place.
So in my opinion he is saying the same thing Artanis did, or his suggestion is scummy as hell.
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Okay, so:
1) Artanis makes a lynch plan Prome assumedly finds pro-town.
2) Instead of commenting on that, or implying he finds this alignment indicative (more on that later) he posts this:
On February 04 2014 11:11 Promethelax wrote:
marv baby, talk to me about Artanis. Is his mafia claim in any way alignment indicative, I'm inclined to say no since well...that is dumb. I don't see him being more likely or less likely to post that as either alignment and until someone finds a quote saying "I would never claim scum as town" -artanis, I won't believe that to be a real reason to find him scummy.
Now what's the motivation behind this post? Is it to find out more about Artanis? No, because Prome states his own opinion. Is to find out more about your (marv's) alignment? I find it hard to believe so, because why would he ask the question this way (give an answer) if he wanted to find out more about you marv. The only reason i can come up with is "hey what do you think so i know if i can use that against Artanis later on if needed".
3) After this Prome makes a same sort of plan (in different words) than Artanis made on step (1). Based on (2) i would think if someone comes up with a same like of suggestion you find pro town, you would give him town credit for it. Therefore it makes even less sense to me he asks you about if Artanis' scumclaim is alignment indicative or not (not to mention he himself does not find it alignment indicative).
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EPT
