EPT[I][T][M] Vengeful Mini Mafia! - Page 2
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
I've realized some things in the last few months that have lead me into this search. First off, contradictions. This is something I've noticed happening increasingly often from town players, and I don't find it a very convincing scumtell with the exception of extreme situations. Second, general theme of play. I've seen so many scum that seem much more town than any other player in the game, and vice versa. I've also seen absolutely horrible plays as either alignment, both getting failing and succeeding with them. The main point is, I've been wrong at forum mafia too many times lately to go on by my old methods. I want to be and find something more certain, and I'm experimenting looking into specific points of one's play currently. I also know that this post is not finding us scum. I don't need that to be pointed out, it's obvious for anyone. (Or at least, should be.) If I cared to look like I only make good posts, I'd post much less and only to the point. However, that leaves less for others to read into me which is bad when I'm a townie. I'm also getting tired of being called lurker every single game (although I can understand that in many games there has also been reason to, but certain players seem to stick to that theme way too eagerly. Lurk once, and you're a lurker for the whole game and even the next one.), so I currently prefer to just post casually without overthinking stuff and leading myself astray with that. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
The thing is however, that's also a feel-based reasoning. Thinking about the things logically, my first thought about the back&forth crap between DP+rayn & marv feels like scum shitting up the thread. Going on about it, I feel it would be unlikely for scum to take the same side of the argument at this point in the game, which leads me to believe rayn & DP are not both scum. One of them could still be. One scum on both sides of the argument is a fairly likely case as well. The third scum I am sure has absolutely nothing to do with the shitfest going on, I wouldn't want to associate all scumteam members into a clusterfuck unless I wanted to cause it with the intent of sacrificing a member or two for the last one to get away. (Let's say that there's a random argument where 5 people take part. Say you lynch 3 of those players and 2 flip scum. How likely would you suppose that the third scum is in the remaining 2 players of the argument, rather than in the 4 players outside of it?). This makes me look at WoS & LSB more critically. Flow of thoughts, nothing more specific right now that pops into mind or that I feel is noteworthy enough to share. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
 Well shot Prome. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On February 07 2014 06:55 Holyflare wrote: cephiro has been on voice chat all day by the way, has no investment in this game and all his reads = nothing When I play voice, I play voice. -_- I've been there for 2 hours or so when I played games. Problem? | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
Like what on earth are these "confirmed" townies he speaks of? All his possible endgame scenarios include one. That alone is scummy as hell, pointing out several possible endgame options yet leaving out the more likely ones. He also speaks of suiciding being counterproductive. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't always aim to lynch a townie. Lynch = No flip. Shot person = Flip. Scum will never shoot their own buddy in this setup. Thus if the scum is lynched, we won't be able to know and just see town dying and go into possible panic due to misreading the situation as the worst possible scenario. + Random vote on you that has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Very concentrated filter, only discussing with a limited amount of players. I'd like LSB to be shot right now. The lynched person is a little harder to decide as I'd prefer to be sure that player is town. But on the other hand I don't want my strongest townreads to get killed either. Rayn & DP I want to keep around for now, same with you. So it comes down to lynching marv or holy. Marv in the sense that I feel that there is a decent chance of him being town and taking a decent shot. Holy in the sense that I am unsure of his alignment and whatever shot he takes would be very informing. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On February 07 2014 07:56 Holyflare wrote: My problem is how you have contributed nothing and maintain that you are "changing your playstyle" when all i see is you doing nothing and if you are making a plan/trap then you haven't changed your playstyle at all so that would also be a waste of time. And where I have claimed I am making a plan / trap? There are a few things one could try in a setup like this, but not really worth it, especially given the players around currently. I like how focused you are on my claim of changing my playstyle. I told why I am playing differently once, yet you keep going on about it like I would've been bringing it up all the time, which is absolutely not the case. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
Oh gee, I didn't vote for Artanis before you rushed things and managed to succeed. That's great. Does that make me scum? No. If I didn't care about the game, I wouldn't 1) Originally have signed up for this game 2) Be posting right now 3) Answering your and other players questions 4) Sharing my thoughts Do you have anything more useful to say? | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On February 07 2014 08:09 Holyflare wrote: that's not a read that's saying "lsb is doing the wrong policy", why would scum be more likely to do that than town? What information do we gather if lsb is scum, what if he's town? answering questions doesn't mean anything because anyone has a brain and can respond to QUESTIONS, you should be giving us questions and stuff for us to respond TO I said my thoughts about why I think LSB is scummy to me. If that's not a read in your opinion, that's your problem. Who are you to classify what is a read and what is not? If there's a specific format your after, then say because I'm not gonna play guessing games. Your last paragraph is obviously just just filler crap. How does the situation change vice versa then? Anyone answering my questions doesn't mean anything because anyone can have a brain and respond? Thus making asking questions from anyone pointless, is what you're saying. Now, rather than try and convince others of my uselessness, how about you actually ask me if you've got something specific you want to know instead of blabbering how bad everything I say. If there isn't, do something more useful, I'm sure everyone got your point by now, | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On February 07 2014 08:14 Holyflare wrote: like... we didn't even vote for artanis? we voted for promethelax and HE shot artanis I only claimed I didn't vote for artanis, although I can see how you drew the misconclusion from my statement. This is what I mean by being tired of your nitpicking. Anyone with this famous brain can see the point of what I said, yet you consider the most important thing to draw a conclusion of my thoughts which I didn't even say. Sigh. In case you didn't get it yet: I was not on the "shoot artanis/lynch prome"-campaign. If it was up to me, I would've preferred someone else than Prome take a shot, but it's useless to go on about something that cannot be changed. Town managed to get a scum killed without me being involved in pushing said person for death. That's good. I wasn't contributing in it, that's bad. Not like all townies are always on every scum lynch. I was unsure about my reads, which is why I would've preferred more time. It wasn't needed for the rest of the town. Do you really want to say I'm scum based on that solely? And since this is what you seem to want, I'll give it a go. Who do you want to keep alive until lategame? Who do you want to be lynched and why? Who do you want to be shot and why? | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On February 07 2014 08:21 LSB wrote: ??? What are you talking about? I covered all possible scenarios that could occur starting tomorrow. What other end game scenarios could occur? There is no such thing as confirmed town in this game for an alive player. Just because you think marv is town doesn't mean everyone else agrees, nor that he actually is. I'm making the assumption you're not talking about yourself as a confirmed townie from the perspective you put it, especially as others would not be able to know that. Why is scum getting lynched a bad thing? If we lynch you and you shoot Marv, you flip yourself as mafia. If you shoot someone who is on the possible scum list, we get rid of two borderline players. Either way a scum dies and that is good for the town. Because scum will never shoot scum. If you lynch scum that shoots a townie, you can't be sure if that player is actually scum, or if it's a townie taking revenge/trying to be a hero/whatever other possibilities there are. Let's go with the assumption that you lynch me and I shoot marv. I know I'm town. Let's assume marv is town also. Just because I shoot him, even if most players consider him to be town, does not make me scum. I can see why you're trying to implicate that, but you have to understand that is not necessarily the case as townies have been known to go rogue and make their own decisions at times. My point is, why would you leave it up to guessing when you can take the sure way out? | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On February 07 2014 08:23 Holyflare wrote: If someone asked me specific questions which led to me to believe you were asking questions to form opinions and make assumptions and reads on based on my responses and then they demonstrated that later on in the thread, then that is a towny mindset. If someone sits back and only responds to questions, they look a lot worse because they aren't showing their thought processes or looking like they want to solve the game (what you are doing). Except that I am constantly posting my thought processes when around. Do you think I'm here to talk just for fun? I explained more than enough times why I'm not pushing someone against the wall and threatening them with a knife. If you still don't get that, then too bad, I'm not going to bother explaining it any further. For someone that was so eager to get me asking, I find it amusing how you are dodging my questions. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On February 07 2014 08:25 LSB wrote: I am deeply concerned about Cephiro trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to get me shot. I know that I am a townie, so this falls under my "worst case scenario of townie shooting townie" argument. This is incredibly different from Marv/HF who are both asking people to lynch them so they can pull the trigger themselves. Unless they are bluffing (which applies more to HF than Marv) mafia should never offer themselves as a sacrifice. 1) I have merely pointed out my suspicions on you and referred to you as my preferred lynch target since I was asked of that specific question. 2) If you are scum, there is no reason for scum to shoot you. I am not in need of tempting another townie to get to shoot you, I am just fine doing it myself. I figure it would be best to talk cooperatively among town who they want to keep around for lategame to ensure the best possibilities of winning. As you might have noticed, I am in no rush to make decisions about who to lynch or who to shoot this cycle, neither was I during last cycle. This is also a reason why I'm sad that Prome was the one to take the shot, since I would have preferred him to stay alive later in the game, and had an more unsure read take the shot. @Wave: It's suboptimal play. Why guess if we can have facts? Certainly it might not even become a deciding factor of any sorts, but why take the risk? Why not go for the guaranteed information? | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On February 07 2014 08:22 Cephiro wrote: Who do you want to keep alive until lategame? Who do you want to be lynched and why? Who do you want to be shot and why? Argument Level: Holyflare I know you're on voice/teamspeak, and I know you've read my posts to see that I asked this of you. This is what you wanted, why are you not responding to my questions? | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On February 07 2014 08:38 LSB wrote: Unfortunately I am finding it harder and harder to believe you are thinking about the setup from a townie perspective. Town objective- Kill three mafia Mafia objective- Have a townie lynch another townie two times. As a townie, all I care about is if a mafia is dead or not. Whether or not the mafia is flipped doesn't really matter to me. Artanis flipped red but really, who cares? He was probably the most obvious day 1 bus target you can get. Connections are not alignment indicative. By lynching scummy players I have multiple chances to hit a scum in a cycle. I can either get them killed at the lynch, or if I am wrong, the player may be able to redeem himself by shooting a scum. If I lynch a scum, then we have accomplished what we need to do. If I am 'sure' that someone is scum I should lynch him, because even if I am wrong, we still have a chance that a scum will die. If I lynched a townie and he hits my target and flips green, well I just killed two townies As a mafia I try to orchestrate a situation in which we can have a townie lynch another townie. And this is exactly what you are doing. You are trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to kill me (which I know is a townie) My point is, there are scenarios where it is extremely uncertain to claim someone to be scum based on their shot when there is no flip. If town players act like it's a confirmed scum when it may not be, it may lead into misjudgements that can possibly cost us the game. The thing which you refuse to see is that a townie will always die in these lynches. Trying to argue about the order is not relevant. Let's say we have player X (assumed townie) and player Y (assumed scum) and we have no flip. X shoots Y that flips scum -> X is (was) obviously town) X shoots Y that flips town -> X could be either alignment Let's assume Y is scum and is lynched first. Y shoots X that flips town -> Y could be either alignment. As you can see, by lynching scum first we can never be certain of the lynched player's alignment. By lynching town first, there is a chance of ensuring the alignments of both players, which is always better. More information is always better. There is no downside. Even though I find lynching a townie and having that town player shoot the correct play, does not mean I am pushing for a mafia agenda as you are claiming me to do. For me, you are one of the scummiest players right now. All your arguments for me being mafia are based on the fact that you are town. This is something I cannot be sure of as a town player. Which is a point you have refused to consider at all, you would know this if you truly were town. The fact also remains that I have certainly not been pressuring for your death hard by any means. As I already told earlier, I merely answered my opinion to the situation as asked of me. Now ask yourself, am I mafia because I am suspecting you to be mafia, or is there something about your play that could be improved upon to make other town players trust in you, if you truly are one? | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On February 07 2014 08:39 Holyflare wrote: Is a thought process a town only trend? this is not what i meant, you don't really get thoughts from these questions -.- I want DP and me alive at end game at least. I am pretty confident dp is town. I do not know about lynches or shots yet. I have people I think are scummy (lsb to an extent based on what i've said although i liked iamp at the start and i liked lsb's scenario thing (that he wanted him and marv at the end so will probably unvote him soon), you most definitely and wave although will need to read these people some more to get firm grasps on things, not read marv so much but his response to the shitting up the thread thing i liked and that was my only qualm with him at that point) You call me down for not having "reads". And what if this bullshit of yours? Hardly any more "thought process" than what I posted. I can't believe you're serious about asking me those questions earlier and this is how you reply to me? Also, what does keeping your vote on a player that you don't want it to be on do? Why not just take it off now? I could just as well call this post of yours fluffy bullshit as you are calling down upon everything I post. Now how about you think about the things you've said to me, and reflect upon your own play. Then get serious about sharing this thought process of yours, or at least not undermining the effort of others. | ||
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