EPT/in
Normal Mini Mafia: Episode I
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
/in | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Btw I see what you did there with my name in the player list lol | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 19 2014 00:29 JonnyLaw wrote: If not, I'll help you fill your pants. As long as you don't make me scum. yeahhhh almost read that the wrong way >_> | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
We meet again on the battlefield! | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Can someone explain what a 'Boxer' is? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I don't like kush's plan, or his reason that it will save a blue and we can catch scum later. Also I think that kush is obviously not a VT or a named VT because if he were then he wouldn't have such stupid logic about how rayn is claiming named VT. ##vote kushm4sta | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 20 2014 09:27 VisceraEyes wrote: It's dumb because of what rayn said - you're literally saying "Anyone who claims blue is immune to the lynch". Literally. What is stopping scum from just claiming blue whenever they're on the block? On January 20 2014 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah I'm mostly indifferent to the matter. I can see the argument for it not being needed and it giving scum information, but I think it could help us in the future by 1) eliminating scum's ability to fake-claim it on the block and 2) forcing scum to decide now whether they want to fake-claim the role. On January 20 2014 10:02 VisceraEyes wrote: 2 is pretty potent in my opinion. If you don't believe me, take a look at Kush's plan. He wants to make blues IMMUNE to the lynch. So is kush's plan dumb? Or do you think it could help us in the future and there's a reason that's pretty potent? Or are you just indifferent to the whole matter? On January 20 2014 11:26 VisceraEyes wrote: It does NOT matter if scum figure out the setup before town does...in fact given the nature of this game that is pretty much a given. What DOES matter it's that we not tell them exactly what it is ON DAY ONE BEFORE WE GET ANY INFO OURSELVES, which is very possible if we have boxers claim. Is it worth the risk? I'm starting to think not, but want other opinions. Inconsistent views on kush's plan (he think's it's dumb / sees arguments for it / is mostly indifferent). Wishy-washy. And I just hate the bolded red line in general. ##unvote ##vote VisceraEyes | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 20 2014 11:26 VisceraEyes wrote: It does NOT matter if scum figure out the setup before town does... I don't even.. Please explain how scum doesn't benefit from knowing the setup in a game that's purely based around scarcity of information. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 20 2014 21:44 zarepath wrote: I thought VE was talking about the two different plans, kush's "don't lynch anyone who claims blue" plan and the Boxer claim plan. Hm.. You're right. I got confused between the two different plans. I still don't like his 'want other opinions' comment. When Wile/slam claimed I made a mental note to see who would jump on him because it would be an easy scum bandwagon to try to push. VE insta-voted him. My vote is staying on VE. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Bum, who do you find scummy and why? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 20 2014 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't see why would he do that as scum. Like do you think he straight up paniced 5 hours into the game and just fucked up as mafia and didn't think anything at all, or do you think he has no fucking clue what's going on as town, like he usually is? This. Answer this question VE. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 20 2014 23:13 kushm4sta wrote: k ill explain my weak townread of bum. It all comes from reading rayn's case. Bum is trying to figure out VE's alignment. He is questioning the same things about VE's play that I am. So it looks like natural townie suspicion to me. kush is leaning towards bum being town because Bum is "questioning the same things about VE's play" that he is. So kush must be referring to when bum was agreeing with my original case (which was horrible), which pegged VE as scummy. Specifically, bum makes two posts which speak about VE: + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2014 18:29 bumatlarge wrote: The scum hunt is strong with this one. I'd like VE to explain his thought process on the first part, he seems to be changing his mind mid post, then it would make more sense as town. On January 20 2014 18:33 bumatlarge wrote: I disagree, the only reason you think it's reasonable is because he is holding back because he probably wrong about you. I'm just working out what I can remember from VE if he posts like this as town. So. Kush agrees (?) that VE doesn't look good because of bum's points. Bum's points are my case. Kush sees Bum as town, but also sees VE as town. 1. He thinks bum is town for bum's reasoning, which is simply an agreement of someone else's case and no further follow-up 2. He thinks VE is town even though he agrees with bum's agreement that VE looks scummy. I find it hard to believe a town kush would feel that both bum and VE look town to him, based on the reasons he gave. I definitely see a scum kush screwing up like this. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
*as an aside Suki is a woman saw a couple posts addressed as "he" said whatever. Yes, please refer to me as 'she' I would very much appreciate it. [spoiler] | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 02:46 bumatlarge wrote: To be fair, I was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context. For the record I don't think bumatlarge is scum at this point. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
PS. I read that game where you were roleplaying as scooby and that was super cute :> | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 02:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have absolutely no idea why bumatlarge is voting for VE because he did just say "he did some stuff i find out to be scummy I have no idea what his read on VE is because it's inconsistent. There you go rayn. I disagree with your statement that bumatlarge has said VE has been doing townie things. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I agree that he's not making strong statements and that he seems to be overthinking the 'what if I'm wrong' part of his argument. However, I had a peek at bum's previous games and he plays the same sort of non-commital game as townie. I think his case makes sense minus the wishy-washiness, and I agree with him that VE has been playing scummy (kush being second on my list). | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 03:20 kushm4sta wrote: why did you feel the need to clarify that right now? Because Rayn is tunneling him and twisting his words and I think it's unproductive. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not even voting for him after his first clarification. Where did you get the idea that i am tunneling him? - - - On January 21 2014 02:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have absolutely no idea why bumatlarge is voting for VE because he did just say "he did some stuff i find out to be scummy but then again i remember him doing same kinda stuff as town too". I have no idea what his read on VE is because it's inconsistent. Perhaps it's just a difference in interpretation, but you start grilling bumatlarge for being 'inconsistent' when I don't see one. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 03:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: What, you even agreed with me in saying the case is wishy-washy. How can you call me out for "twisting his words" when you agree with me, because that was what i was saying before he clarified his case? I agreed that it was wishy-washy, but I disagree with your statement that his reads were inconsistent. I think his 1., 2., 3. points were clearly points towards a VE scum theory, wishy-washyness aside. You were making it sound like he was going back and forth without a clear reason and then just randomly voted against VE without providing evidence. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: bumatlarge: There is nothing wrong in those quotes suki brought up. VE thinks kush's plan is bad and VE is not sure if claiming/not claiming Boxers is best play. Where is the inconsistancy? He does not change his mind anywhere. You said "i think VE is scum but i need to go back and look if he does this as town". That's exactly what you said. Did you go back and look at if he does that as town or not? Does he do that as town or not? On January 21 2014 02:49 suki wrote: For the record I don't think bumatlarge is scum at this point. My thought process: bumatlarge agreed with my initial case against VE. It was pointed out that my case was bad and I had mistakenly thought VE was talking about one topic when he was talking about two. Bumatlarge, having agreed with my post, was now coming under fire from Rayn who asked him to point out the inconsistency. He then said, he was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context. I then posted my townread on bum to back him up because I felt like Rayn was going to attack him on this point and I think it would have been a waste of effort. In hindsight, Rayn was pressuring bum for answers but not accusing him of scum behaviour and there was no reason to have to back bum up. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
'twisting his words' was too strong a phrase to use. You misrepresented them might be a better choice of words? You stating that bum wasn't providing evidence against VE was incorrect, because he did provide evidence - again, minus the wishy-washiness. Your point on people saying 'he could be mafia, but then he could also be town' is true and I generally see that as a scum tell. However, I did not get that feeling from bum and especially not so now after reading through some of his past filters. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 03:31 kushm4sta wrote: Why would putting your townread on the record change any of that though? I also find it ironic that you of all people are asking me this question. On January 20 2014 22:23 kushm4sta wrote: Feels thrawn's town. wiley is town i think rayn is town i think VE is town balla is scummy for being a scumhunter extraordinaire yet doing nothing Tell me, why did you feel the need to clarify that you felt all those people were town? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 04:56 VisceraEyes wrote: So? Neither of those "easy route" things make me scum or even scummy. Who cares if they're "easy"? Does that make the points I raise any less valid? And what if Bum is scum Artanis? Just because bum attacked me first, am I supposed to go after someone else just because bum is "too easy" now? Or Wile, just because rayn attacked him first, am I supposed to find a different target just because Wile is "too easy" now? Even if he's scum? These points don't make any sense. What points? You call WileE's claim scummy by saying it's 'bad', and outright ignore questions asking you to elaborate why mafia would ever claim 5 hours into the game. You sheep onto Rayn after he posts his case on bum: On January 20 2014 22:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah that all looks really bad. with your only elaboration being: On January 20 2014 23:04 VisceraEyes wrote: What do you think of bum kush? I liked rayns post on the matter, and agree he looks bad. What do you think? Before you vote bum. For no other explanation that you like rayn's post, which amounted to 'bum is being wishy-washy'. The difference between you and bum is that bum actually scum hunted and made arguments. What about you? All you've done is called out people for being 'bad' and then call them scum for it. The only analysis you've provided is 'This guy is bad at the game therefore he is scummy.' Your arguments are weak and you just keep repeating the same thing over and over when pressured, which is some variation of OMGUS. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Do you still find kush scummy? Who else looks scummy to you? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 06:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because sheeping / agreeing with someone does not make anyone mafia. Also his reaction to Artanis calling bum the towniest town was pure town!VE. Sheeping/agreeing with someone doesn't make anyone mafia, but VE has failed to contribute anything to the game aside from OMGUS and policy talk. So VE is town in your eyes purely from a meta read. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I think Zarepath's case on VE is just a list of points that tries to squeeze out any sort of scumminess. It's weak, but he sounds like he's trying so hard to make it work. His follow up posts are all trying to keep up the pressure on VE. Compared to the filter linked by Barristan, Zarepath's tone has changed completely. In his previous game filter he had no problem listing off a bunch of people who he thought were scummy, and doing a bunch of analysis. In this game he's only talked about VE and no one else, and VE is not the only suspicious person in this game. ##unvote ##vote Zarepath I'm going to lay off VE for a bit. Pressuring him is going nowhere and I think he's defended well. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 20 2014 18:33 bumatlarge wrote: I disagree, the only reason you think it's reasonable is because he is holding back because he probably wrong about you. I'm just working out what I can remember from VE if he posts like this as town. "Because he (is) probably wrong about you" VE is accusing WileE of being scum. Bum thinks WileE is probably town. -> VE is probably wrong about WileE being scum. I don't think it's a slip. If you assume that bum is mafia, then why would he add in 'probably'? To put it another way, if bum had instead said '... he is holding back because he is wrong about you.' that is what I would call a slip, because bum would have just given away the fact that he knows what WileE's alignment is. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 10:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's changed between these posts? Several things... First, I felt that it was becoming 'too easy' to attack VE, especially with bum and now zarepath making big cases on him that essentially say the same things but in many words. I felt VE was just reiterating the same thing over and over in his defenses, and the attacks were not coming up with new/interesting points. Second, I feel that his blow up was townie. I also feel that martyrdom is generally a more townie thing to do. However I didn't want to put a lot of stock into it because I haven't played with him and hence can't really interpret his meta. Third, I'm honestly a bit intimidated by you guys. I think rayn, your meta read that he's town is something I can trust for now (at least until we see a bit more from VE). I also felt hurt when VE straight up said he was ignoring me, but that sort of attitude also feels townie to me. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I also don't like Jonny's play this game. It's a lot less coherent than our previous game together. Balla, Jonny: I want to see more activity from both of you. Specifically, your top two scum reads and why. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 10:49 JonnyLaw wrote: rayn, you know i posted like once a cycle in that game. wos warned me for activity. Sandro called me scum early and never backed off. Suki same thing. You want more from me? Who's posted more? Not you. That's a certainty. I can't pin kush as scum but I dislike his play as town. I have both games I played with him. That's the only reason I don't try to push it harder. What's with the hostility? All I want is some scum hunting. Also I have posted more, so I don't understand what you're trying to argue here. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Surely if kush and bum were both scum, and kush was bussing bum, kush could find much better reasons to bus him than some super WIFOM-y semantics scum slip. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I think Balla's activity is strangely low compared to my last game with him, however reading his filter I feel like his tone is similar to the townie tone that I had in NMM LI. That is, he asks a ton of questions, postures a lot, but doesn't actually press his suspicions. When I was mafia in NMM LI I was actually initially planning to try to get a mislynch on him in Day 3 because I noticed while he pressured a ton of people, he never actually made cases himself. Of course we ended up shooting him N2 because his pressure was just too good. My read on Balla right now is neutral, leaning a bit towards town. His tone is more townie to me, and I think his case on Crossfire is characteristic of Balla, because Balla himself likes to jump around (albeit without voting), so he's basically defending his own meta (which isn't showing up this game, strangely). I don't like how he voted Crossfire at the end and then disappeared without any other comments. I want to hear his thoughts on more people. TLDR: I read Balla as neutral, leaning a bit towards town. Overall tone feels kinda townie, but his lack of activity is suspicious, and his vote on Crossfire followed by disappearance is suspicious. Expect more activity, more pressure Day 2 from him. Do not like him as a Day 1 lynch. To Balla: Can you please explain maybe in a sentence why there's such a huge change in your activity? And what we can expect from you going forward? Also, reads please. I asked for your top two scum reads earlier and you only talked about Crossfire. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 22:20 zarepath wrote: I still am suspicious of him but maybe that is bias This quote stands out to me as particularly odd. Basically zarepath is backpedalling, but he can't just straight up say, maybe I was tunneling too hard, VE doesn't seem (as) scummy to me at the moment. Instead, he's like 'Out of everyone in the game he was the most scummy.. maybe I was tunneling too hard... but I'm still suspicious of him... but maybe that is bias.' As scum he would be more scared of backing off too quickly. So he can't explain his case against VE (other than, when it all added up he just seemed scummy), and he can't simply drop his case without all these qualifying words of how VE is still scummy to him (but not that scummy). | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I feel like a scum Balla would be trying really hard to contribute and show that he's townie despite the lack of activity. This Balla just seems like he's approaching the game in the same manner as when he's townie. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 23:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i just looked at his past games and:
If i don't even think about the motivation behind Balla's posts in this game and just look at what he has said it looks exactly like he played mafia and nothing like his town play to me. Balla questions people in both his scum and town games. He isn't questioning people in this game - I blame whatever is causing him to be less active. In this game, he has a lot of policy talk and 'helpful' posts where he explains things, which in my mind is more of a townie Balla trait. He also goes on Crossfire who has minimal pressure on him at the moment, which is against your meta read of 'no real pushing of his own ideas'. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
It sounds like he's really stretching to label VE as scummy and that's not a townie thing to do. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 23:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he thinks that post is so scummy why did he not call it out in the first place? Or if he has such a strong town read on me, why was he more interested in telling "bum and rayn are town" in thread when i was attacking Crossfire for that post? Right. Why indeed? I feel a scum Balla would be more inclined to scum hunt right away and post reads, while a town Balla is more likely to sit back and digest the thread before posting a case. I'm not saying Balla's play is good by any means, what I'm saying is that I'd rather wait until he's contributed more before solidifying my read on him. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
So what? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 00:11 kushm4sta wrote: suki i thank you sir for being super town I'm a girl :< | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 02:44 bumatlarge wrote: It might have been just you asking kush twelve times in your filter. I'm going to re-evalute things. I pretty much did what VE did and called him scum. Suki makes case on VE, bum - "cool", rayn makes case on bum, VE - "cool" "OMG VE DIDNT EVEN READ IT" Bum is really self-conscious throughout the game. I don't like how he stepped off his pressure from VE just because no one was listening to him. If VE was the most scummy person in the game to Bum then he wouldn't have stepped off. If VE wasn't the most scummy, Bum would already have someone in mind who is more scummy and would have posted something I think rather than just disappear. I'm starting to agree that Bum looks scummy.. but now Zarepath (my number 1 scum pick) has just bandwagoned (or bussed) onto bum? Hmm..... | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 06:31 zarepath wrote: Could you care to explain why VE is town despite him obsessing with everyone's opinions of him and blatant sheeping? I made a whole case about him which everyone has completely ignored in the middle of your penis-measuring contest with Artanis. Re-reading again, this post reads townie to me. Particularly the part where he points out that his case was ignored, I think for scum it doesn't matter if people listen to their arguments as long as a townie is getting lynched, so pointing out his post reads more town. Tunneling can be done by town, stretching cases too far is also possible for a really tryhard town. Zarepath's switch to bum doesn't make sense if both of them are scum. And I agree that bum looks scummy. ##unvote ##vote bumatlarge | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Also welcome back  | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I also think Bum's retraction from VE is super scummy and don't fault Zarepath for thinking so as well. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 03:30 JonnyLaw wrote: I agree with Rayn on this point. Zerepath literally took the time to make a case, didn't push it at all then calls bum scum for making the same case and actually trying to get it pushed into a lynch. wrong. Bum's right, if your case isn't getting traction why waste people's time. If bum really think's VE's scum he can always wait and try to get him lynched later. I hate this logic. Also if town Bum really thought that VE wasn't worth pursuing he should have a better target no? Rather than just saying 'welp no ones listening to me I guess I'll just withdraw from the game' @balla It took me a minute to understand what the hell that post is saying. But yes it is contradicting his case completely. Backwards ass logic. He's scum for being defensive and he's scum for saying fuck it, lynch me if I'm scum. wrong again, those are two different things. Zarepath: VE switched to bum with no justification -> VE is suspicious -> Zarepath provides a case against VE and votes him. When Zarepath switched to Bum likewise he also gave his reasons. I don't see what you're saying is 'kinda bad' here. On January 22 2014 03:56 JonnyLaw wrote: Yeah, your last post sealed it for me. Your explanation for bum being scummy is that he took his vote off VE when no one would follow his lead. You took your vote off VE when you thought it was an easy thing to do. They're not obviously different at all. ... He tried to back up his case for two days and it gained no traction. You abandoned yours after two fucking minutes when VE said lynch me if I'm scum. You literally have one post saying I made a case and that's it. After that it's like total 180 and you jump on the same person VE has his vote on. Zarepath admitted he was tunneling and backed off. This is different than bum backing off for no reason even after VE failed to satisfyingly answer bum's questions. Jumping on the same person VE has his vote on when he still finds VE suspicious is bad, though. I didn't catch that. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 04:50 JonnyLaw wrote: Suki your basic idea is that zarepath cannot be scum because he brings up his case ONE time after making it then drops it all together? If there are two lynch candidates and you're one of them don't you pick option b regardless of alignment? His switch to bum was an easy choice imo. Uh if you're town you push the person you think is the scummiest, regardless if that person is a candidate or not. If bum is scum, which I think he is, then I don't see scum zarepath voting for bum. It doesn't make sense. From my point of view either zarepath or bum are scum. It doesn't make sense for both of them to be scum. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 05:52 bumatlarge wrote: I was giving zarepath a free place to put his vote as long as I was intent on lynching VE. His reaction to my unvote has alot of motivation behind it. At the time, Crossfire was gaining some traction, for an iffy post. Zare could have hopped on him, which I think is worth noting if one of them flips scum. Kush seems somewhat similar, but that was older votes. I found his vote on me a bit backwards, considering that it was just for not pushing VE some more. I think it would it would be a poor choice for him to make as mafia. But I don't think he seems like he has a lot of experience as mafia. The second scenario where I am scum and he is town is much more unlikely, because he has been on par with my thoughts the whole game, and he changes his mind to me when I stop pursuing both of our top scum reads. That is much more illogical coming from a townie, rather then what I think would be bad reasoning for him to do that as mafia. I actually really really like everything here. Many of these things I didn't consider previously. One other thing I was eyeing was Crossfire's soft defense of Zarepath earlier in the game. Couple this with Zarepath including Crossfire into his list just now (alongside a really stupid desire to lynch WileE)... I think there's a good chance of them being scumbuddies. ##unvote ##vote Zarepath | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I liked bum's retort and it also invalidated several of my reasons for switching off zarepath. Of course now he goes and claims so I have no idea what's going on anymore. -_-; | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
12. Posting a false role PM phrased as if you received it from the host. You can still fake roleclaim, but you cannot make it look like you are posting a PM you received from the host. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:46 bumatlarge wrote: I want to see a bluepost before I take my vote off. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Zarepath obviously did not have a fakeclaim, his reaction was genuine. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
For starting and pushing Zarepath lynch so hard. There are other things that I don't like upon skimming through his filter but yeah I'll put my vote here and continue looking through filters. Not sure about kush yet. Going to re-read him again.. But here's something that never really was addressed earlier in the game: On January 21 2014 02:35 suki wrote: kush is leaning towards bum being town because Bum is "questioning the same things about VE's play" that he is. So kush must be referring to when bum was agreeing with my original case (which was horrible), which pegged VE as scummy. Specifically, bum makes two posts which speak about VE: + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2014 18:29 bumatlarge wrote: The scum hunt is strong with this one. I'd like VE to explain his thought process on the first part, he seems to be changing his mind mid post, then it would make more sense as town. On January 20 2014 18:33 bumatlarge wrote: I disagree, the only reason you think it's reasonable is because he is holding back because he probably wrong about you. I'm just working out what I can remember from VE if he posts like this as town. So. Kush agrees (?) that VE doesn't look good because of bum's points. Bum's points are my case. Kush sees Bum as town, but also sees VE as town. 1. He thinks bum is town for bum's reasoning, which is simply an agreement of someone else's case and no further follow-up 2. He thinks VE is town even though he agrees with bum's agreement that VE looks scummy. I find it hard to believe a town kush would feel that both bum and VE look town to him, based on the reasons he gave. I definitely see a scum kush screwing up like this. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 21 2014 04:45 kushm4sta wrote: Rayn I can see why you think I'm scummy. You read me pretty well actually. My advice is wait for tonight. Tonight, you! ...will be convinced I'm town | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
##vote kushm4sta | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:20 suki wrote: If you're plain old VT what's with this post: So someone tell me is this just me making a stupid case again? -_-; I don't see why kush would say something like this if he didn't have a power role...... | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
 | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
##vote Balla24 | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:59 Crossfire99 wrote: what else do you expect but last minute tl mafia shenanigans. Is this really a thing cuz I hate it -_-; | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I'm off for possibly the whole night, if I can keep my mind off this game. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Spent a long time thinking. Mostly about how much I suck at mafia. Fun times. Anyways.. Here is my theory - kush, balla, Jonny as the scum team. Kush Select quotes from Kush: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 05:26 kushm4sta wrote: Artanis u are wrong tho. Bad cases is how you catch good scum players kush doesn't follow his own advice. On January 21 2014 11:03 kushm4sta wrote: and my confidence stems entirely from the fact that he scumslipped. without the scumslip I would not be certain at all. The only reason he votes bum. On January 22 2014 01:09 kushm4sta wrote: going through filters and these are the ones im finding scummy Artanis[Xp] Barristanthebold bum On January 22 2014 02:22 kushm4sta wrote: So artanis vote on rayn is because rayn wont talk to him? Lol Terrible reason. And artanis has good reasons usually. I'm pretty sure artanis is scum. Artanis is scummy because of kush's meta read on him.. Not that solid of a case. Also no explanation of why Barristan is scummy. On January 22 2014 02:45 kushm4sta wrote: Yo maybe we should lynch crossfire instead. Ballas case was very convincing to me On January 22 2014 04:28 kushm4sta wrote: I would compromise on cross fire buddy up with Balla. So. My biggest question going through kush's filter like 5 times is, what has kush done this game? And the answer is, he's super hardcore tunneled bum for pretty much the entire game due to a 'scumslip' which is really hard to believe. The suspicious part here is that that's his entire case, and yet he pushes it even in the final minutes before the lynch. Um. He makes shitty cases on Artanis, states Barristan is scummy without any justification.. Then decides Balla's case on crossfire is amazing and actually puts a lot of effort trying to get people to take notice of it, while defending Zarepath (which Artanis has already said is suspicious). So. I'm thinking kush has been trying to push Balla as a townie guy with good scumhunting ability.. He asked me for my opinion of Balla and I said Balla looks townie to me, so maybe he was using that as a platform to get Balla town-cred. Something that also stands out is kush votes Balla at the beginning of the game for lack of activity, and he likes bussing so yeah. Basically, Kush hasn't done anything but hardcore push a bad case on bum, which is based on one scumread and no other justification. He also buddied up with Balla and tried to get Balla towncred. ---- JonnyLaw This set of quotes right in the role-claim fiasco stand out to me: On January 22 2014 06:36 JonnyLaw wrote: What other option is there rayn? You want modkills or him breaking the rules make us change our votes? That's fucked up and you know it. I'm town as shit but I want a fair fucking game. Is there any way you were changing your vote before the deadline without that post? On January 22 2014 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: No townie wants anyone modkilled especially when mafia has fakeclaims and it's easy to prove and i have asked the hosts about it already. On January 22 2014 06:37 JonnyLaw wrote: I considered not commenting on this issue at all because someone's going to use it as an excuse to call me scum later. Fuck that. If I'm scum there zero motivation for me to say a god damned word right now. I'm actually fairly pissed. I'm taking a break this is utter trash. Jonny is being awfully conscious of how his actions make him look scummy. Rayn doesn't even accuse Jonny of being scummy and yet Jonny's reply is 'Fuck that, if I'm scum I shouldn't be posting this. Ragequit thread' One thing that I noticed that was really strange to me is both Balla and Jonny had each other as scummy from the very beginning of the game. Jonny seemed hell-bent on pushing Balla as scum but really I didn't think Balla's play was that different, just his lack of activity.. Even Jonny admitted it.. So.. Balla's scummy.. and yet.. the only reason he's scummy is the activity level? And then when Balla flips he's like On January 22 2014 08:14 JonnyLaw wrote: I called that all fucking game. all I gotta say. Kush scum too. I'll make the case shortly. Grabbing a beer now. Also, why the hell does Jonny think kush is scum? He never really gives any reason but seems like he's convinced that kush and balla are teammates from the very beginning: On January 21 2014 07:52 JonnyLaw wrote: ##unvote ##vote kushmasta I think kush is scum. I think balla is scum. I think kush put a bus vote on balla and got an easy out when I said something. No one else will vote balla. Lynch kush. Mm.. Anyways, after finishing this analysis I'm pretty sure of this. Jonny and Balla started attacking each other from the start but their antagonism towards each other makes no sense to me. Kush has been playing shit and buddying up with Balla for a stupid case on Crossfire. Lynch Kush and Jonny for town victory. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Also I don't buy Jonny's angry defense. I don't think he even tries to answer why he thought kush and balla were scummy since the beginning of the game. In this post, Balla says Jonny looks bad, however he never explains why he thinks Jonny looks bad. Jonny's most recent post up until that point is this one. Prior to that, I think Jonny had been playing a better game than several people (Crossfire had already made his post which Balla jumped on later), so I don't see why Balla would think Jonny looked bad at that point. On January 22 2014 17:33 JonnyLaw wrote: Suki, I'm not even responding to your shit. I said multiple times I'll lynch balla over anyone else. I like lynching kush as well and town follows rayn. Please at least make an effort. Read Balla's filter. Half of it is him bull shitting around with kush. Balla kept getting personally angry when I asked him questions rather than trying to scum hunt which is the activity I'm referring to. A normal balla town game he would ignore me, call me scum or make a case worth talking about. In this game he just told me to stop calling him out just because he's busy. Are you kidding me right now? I thought we're in a situation where we have a modkill where my main lynch target fucked up the game. How am I supposed to be happy about this situation? You said the exact same thing. 1. Yes you did push balla and kush for the whole game. This is what I find surprising. In our game together where you were town, you said OWB was scummy for lurking, but you let off the pressure even though he didn't really contribute very much. But you got distracted by other people. In this game, you so single-mindedly targeted Balla as scum from the beginning and didn't even let off your pressure when he started to contribute. That's what's strange. 2. Balla didn't get personally angry. Actually he just made short responses to you and carried on with his reads. Also, if Balla was your top scum read, why did you not reconsider your vote on Zarepath when Balla voted it? Why did you also agree that Crossfire looked bad when Balla, your supposed number 1 scum, had the exact same reasoning that you posted? 3. Bum, you and I all wanted to wait until a mod response before switching our vote, but you were the only one to shout out 'HEY GUYS IM NOT SCUM FOR SAYING THIS OK'. It's this self-conscious attitude that I find is a scummy trait on you. 4. You still haven't addressed why you thought kush was scummy way back at the beginning of the game. On January 21 2014 03:29 JonnyLaw wrote: Also, I think balla's scum and I don't know how to read kush at all. Maybe scum too. On January 21 2014 07:52 JonnyLaw wrote: ##unvote ##vote kushmasta I think kush is scum. I think balla is scum. I think kush put a bus vote on balla and got an easy out when I said something. No one else will vote balla. Lynch kush. Somehow, you went from 'Maybe kush is scum' to 'Kush is scum and he bussed Balla.' With no explanation. This isn't like you. So yeah. - Still find Jonny's cases against Kush and Balla contrived and forced. - Find it weird that Jonny didn't double think his vote on Zarepath, and also found Crossfire suspicious when these were two (pretty much the only two) people that his #1 scum read found scummy. - Still find that he was too self-conscious during the roleclaim fiasco - Don't understand why Balla would say Jonny looked bad when he did. Crossfire's post that he later made a case on had already been posted, but the he chooses to single out only Jonny and Artanis at that time, without giving any reasoning for Jonny. Someone back me up here. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 22:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Nevermind seems like JonnlyLaw has a hard tme keeping his thoughts together as town. Yeah.. So why the single minded focus on Balla? Jonny hasn't commented on other people really, aside from the ones that I pointed out. In my game where he was town, he threw out accusations all over the place. Also his cases on people were a lot more involved. In this game he's just like 'Balla is scum I called it give me town cred.' | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I find it really weird that he had such a strong scumread on Balla from day 1 and pushed it so hard. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that he would stay on Zarepath when Balla agreed with it, or think Crossfire looked bad when that was Balla's biggest case. No? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I don't think JonnyLaw is playing good. I don't understand his aggression on Balla, I don't see how town Jonny could be so damn sure that Balla is scum, that's the entire point. I'm getting tired of you calling me bad every time I say anything rayn. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 23:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Seriously, read this sentence over and over again. It makes absolutely no sense... The weird part is that he had such a strong scumread on Balla. How? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 23:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: In your theory JonnyLaw has only accused Balla and kush on D1. So fuck yes Jonnylaw is playing his best game ever or Jonnylaw is playing his worst game ever. Which is it? Why the hell would town Jonny not doubt his reads on Zarepath and Crossfire if his number one scum is also on them? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I'm sorry I tried to play the game. I'm just horrible at mafia and should just go away forever. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 23:37 bumatlarge wrote: lol who is this? Suki: I think johnny is worth noting, but I find it hard to believe he was pushing both his scummates day 1. That has no long term benefits for mafia, which is a real issue when you are scum. Here is a thought. Kush is not scum. Then Jonny isn't pushing both his scummates, just Balla. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 23 2014 02:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: suki we are having a healthy happy argument. not a crappy one like i usually have with people. i am fighting against it again as it ruins games. <3 No hard feelings I just got upset because I'm really disappointed in my play so far.I'm out for a while.. probably won't be back until after the deadline. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Be back later to see if I can help hunt down the final scum. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
What do you think of Jonny's progression from thinking Zarepath looked genuine for getting angry after VE's blowup, to voting Zarepath as his number one choice for lynch day 1? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 02:44 Balla24 wrote: I'd lynch zarepath atm, the main contradiction in his VE case that I think you are pointing out rayn is really really bad, and he never really responds to that. Want to hear more from crossfire and artanis though. Here is the chronology: Zarepath has 3 votes on him (suki, Barristan, rayn). Balla posts the above quote, saying he would lynch zarepath. Jonny posts that he still thinks Balla is scum Jonny posts his read on Zarepath that he thinks Zarepath is genuine. Jonny's next four posts then ramp up suspicion until he finally votes Zarepath. So Jonny goes from 'feels town' to 'super scummy' on Zare, when his top scum read has already said he'd lynch Zare, and Jonny doesn't even consider it. Anyways, I'll start looking at the other players now but I don't see how we can not lynch Jonny today. Jonny's decision to exit the thread for the rest of the day feels like he doesn't want to post any reads which may make things harder for his remaining scum buddy. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Take a look at this game: Newbie Mini Mafia XVII In this game, I'm town, and I made the exact wrong moves in Day 1 and was the agreed upon FOR SURE lynch on Day 2 by everyone in town. Like, I was absolutely screwed. And so I sent a SOS pm to Blazinghand because I had no idea what to do. And here is his response: + Show Spoiler + So, first off, it's night-time. If you're gonna get lynched, it's not for another 72 hours. Here's what you gotta do in order to A) not get lynched and B) help town.' First, we know you're not gonna get shot tonight (unless you're blue) so we don't need to worry about that. Imagine you're looking at someone and they're super scummy. You plan to spend the next 72 hours trying to lynch them. Well, if they just argue with you, yeah, okay, maybe that would convince you. But what would convince you MORE? Well, if they found scum on their own! What I recommend you do is just go completely quiet between now and daybreak. Take a look at everyone's filter. Try to find the scum. If you get lynched, they'll see you're a townie, and read your cases, knowing they were honest! So do some serious research. Make a post that says something like this: 1. I'm making this post before daybreak, just in case I get shot (unlikely). 2. I think X is scum. (include long analysis of X, and why they're scum). 3. I get that you think I'm scummy, and I see that Y and Z have made cases against me. I'll do my best to address them here. 4. I think we can agree that even though I might be a bit scummy, my stuff makes sense from a town PoV, and X's stuff is clearly scum. Basically, the only way to save yourself and make this next 72 hours helpful, is to find scum. If you can find scum, town will lynch scum instead of you. No matter how strong the case against you seems to be, it's false-- you're town. There's a real scum player out there, and if you find him and make a case against him, it will be stronger than the case against you, because he has scumslips, actions that only make sense from the scum perspective, etc. It's a lot of work, but it can be worth it. and worse case scenario, if they lynch you, they'll be "oh she was town! well now her case sounds better, let's talk about that" and catch the scum tomorrow. whatever you do, don't let town waste a whole day not talking about anything and silently sheeping you. Fight hard, and find scum. Force scum to come out of their shells and argue, to produce evidence for you and others to find. -Blazinghand Original Message From suki: Hey blazinghand, just selected your name randomly out of the coaches in the OP for Mafia XVII. Due to bad reads and bad luck I've gotten myself in a situation where I am pretty sure I am gonna get mislynched. The best analysts we have are both pretty sure I'm scum. I'm at a loss for what to do because I don't have any good reads. The last remaining mafia seems to have gone for a really aggressive bussing strategy to gain crazy townie cred, and I have no good reads on anyone. My question is, is there anything I can do to help town at all? Since I have pretty much no credibility at this point maybe I should just stay quiet until the end? I really don't know T__T;; Thank you, suki I read this and took it to heart. And I played my goddamn brains out. And you know what? I kept making shit reads and kept lynching townies, every single night. And it was god awful, but town didn't lynch me. I survived until LYLO, because I wanted to win and I didn't care if people were wrong about me because it's not their fault. And you know what? It's probably going to be my favourite mafia game for a really long time because that feeling of going against all odds and weathering that storm is the best feeling, even though town lost at the very end (thanks Crossfire :p). I'm saying this as a friend, play to fucking win. If you're town, you can get mislynched today and have bitter feelings for the rest of your life about how everyone in this game sucked, or you can come back and do your best and feel good about yourself at the end of the day and maybe help everybody pull it together and win. And if you're scum well just keep lurking cuz it's probably in your best interest not to make things any harder for your partner. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
So if you're really town, stop acting like a spoiled kid cuz you never really had it bad. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 23 2014 10:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: But why did he ask the question if he doesn't find you suspicious? If he does, then a suspicious answer should result in him pressuring you further. If he doesn't, then even bringing up the question doesn't make sense. Hm. I've done some thinking. I think Barristan would still pressure me even if he was leaning town on me. Also I find it likely that he would have pressed me farther if my answer was suspicious but it seems like he accepted my answer as okay. I'm leaning town on Barristan, I liked his answer to my question and nothing stands out to me in his filter. Taking my time with reading other people. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 22 2014 05:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Thrawn, your case is partially built on Kush not being scum. Has your read on him changed? Hmm. I'm going to have to reread Bum's filter with this in mind. The story of frustrated town might make too much sense to me because it's happened to me before. Perhaps I'll see what you see. Will be back in an hour to do so. You never actually came back and posted your thoughts on Bum. Can you also post your thoughts on Bum in addition to your scumread(s)? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 23 2014 13:27 bumatlarge wrote: Yeah, that's the math I did. Chances are we don't have a doctor Hm.. so from Barristan's post it's more likely that the setup is GGR since scum would 100% know town doesn't have a doctor, whereas in the other setup mafia may have decided to go with a safer target just in case there was a doctor. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 23 2014 04:04 bumatlarge wrote: WileSlam I had a stupid reason, but he actually claimed green, which debunks it. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I know I'm asking everyone their opinions but I really don't know where to start looking for the last scum, even though I've spent the whole night scanning filters.. :\ | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 23 2014 15:25 suki wrote: Actually bum, out of curiosity could you let me know what your theory on WileE was, even though it's not valid anymore? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I didn’t really read your attack on me because I’m town so whatever. While I was filter diving last night looking for the ‘final scum’, I decided that you weren’t scum after all, but I wanted to wait for your response just to see if you’d actually start playing again and helping town. Reasons I don’t think you’re scum: Balla’s only targets were Zarepath and Crossfire. It’s pretty stupid scum play for two scum to target the exact same people. Especially in the case of Zarepath who was already under heavy pressure from lots of people, scum can and should take the safe route, which you didn’t do. Your fist pump ‘I caught a scum’ after the lynch followed by immediate rage at me is actually really understandable from a town point of view because who wouldn’t be mad at being called scummy for playing a great town game? And then to be #1 to lynch, yeah. Anyways, I also read your post: On January 23 2014 12:05 JonnyLaw wrote: No, I just don't care anymore. I get called scum for finding scum. Figure it yourself. Because your one read so far is me and I'm town. As pretty townie cuz it’s kinda exactly what I said in that newbie mini that I referenced in my earlier speech. Hm. Also, having both balla and Jonny vote crossfire/zare from the beginning really doesn’t lend itself to a long term scum strategy at all, there’s no set up for the following days, which is too short sighted for people of Balla and Jonny’s calibur. The scum slip that rayn pretty much convinced everyone with.. well, it’s pretty damning but hey, I was reading balla as town the whole time so it should be reasonable to expect Jonny having second thoughts of Balla’s towniness on the condition that his activity were to start picking up. In short, Jonny is really town to me. Plus, I think I’ve solved the game. Lol. Gimme a bit to write things up. ##unvote | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
The reason I pressured Bum is because I believed (and now I know) he slipped hard. Let me bring up the two posts: On January 22 2014 08:35 bumatlarge wrote: I'm gonna say last two scum are kush and Wile. Going to take my time looking them over. On January 23 2014 04:04 bumatlarge wrote: WileSlam I had a stupid reason, but he actually claimed green, which debunks it. On January 24 2014 13:11 bumatlarge wrote: Use your imagination it's not worth talking about unless this an only this are going to effect your read on either me or Wile.On January 24 2014 13:14 bumatlarge wrote: I don't think I have to answer it. You persist with this I'm going to vote you. Why did Bum suddenly put pressure on WileE? WileE has always been considered definite blue VT because it's such a bad move for scum to make early game. Even Bum admitted it. On January 20 2014 17:32 bumatlarge wrote: We'll, No one else should claim. One named VT doesn't actually tell us or the mafia anything. I have my doubts that Wile is lying unless he's being a very intentionally hard to understand smurf. "Chez" or no, it doesn't hurt that bad. Anyone voting for him for that reason is being awfully hasty. Now pretty much right after Bum said the last two scum are kush and Wile, Wile posted an apology post saying oops I'm actually green, not blue. Again, my thoughts and I assume everyone else's is that WileE was just being completely honest, because there is no way that scum is going to un-claim blue. So why would Bum suspect WileE? We know now that there are 2 (claimed) named VT's, not 3. But to a townie it makes no difference. And that's the slip. My guess is that the scum team is made up of 2 Goons, 1 RB. Because if this is the case, having 3 named VT's is impossible. Bum looks at the 3 claims and says, wait a sec, I don't know why, but one of those guys is lying about being named VT. Out of the three claimed boxers, WileE is the least genuine, the easiest to target. Bum knows that WileE is lying, and if he can expose WileE, that's a free mislynch. So he posts his suspicion of WileE, not expecting WileE to admit his mistake so fast. But now what? Here is the important part. There is no reason at all for town to suspect that any one of the three boxers are lying. NONE. So the only way Bum could find WileE suspicious is if he knows the setup. I asked him what his reason was for suspecting WileE just now, and he refused to tell me, and threatened to vote me if I didn't stop pressuring him. And why? Because it's impossible for him to explain without revealing that he's scum. Now, lots of people have posted cases on Bum so I'm not going to reiterate why people think he's scummy. However, this is pretty damning by itself. Think it through, you'll see there's no town explanation for Bum to suspect WileE, especially due to claiming boxer.. Now, Artanis: Artanis' play has been really quiet. He's asked a lot of questions but rarely expresses his own views. A safe way to play while looking like he's contributing. He followed the safe lynch on Zarepath, did not vote Balla, and also insta-voted JL on Day 2 with me and VE. Although he is now distancing himself from JL scum theory which fits with him being scum. And now, when I asked him who he thought was scummy he said this: On January 24 2014 06:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think it might be Barristan. I'm not sure though. The only point that really goes against him was the one I pointed out earlier, other than that nothing really stands out from his filter. If it's not Barristan, then I imagine it's one of the people that's town for the wrong reasons. It could be someone town just for a claim (Zarepath, Wile E, Thrawn). I haven't looked into them too much. Still plenty of time and I'm pretty sure on my other townreads. Boxer's are a townie's safe haven. They are a way to eliminate people from consideration and make it easier to hunt scum. All three of our claims were made in a very convincing, townie manner. There is no reason, and Artanis has not stated any reason, why he would suspect the boxers, instead of other people. As scum though it makes perfect sense to try to start warming people up to lynching blues, because in the later parts of the game they have to make something happen. People already find Artanis scummy so I don't want to go into the reasons already brought up, I just want to reveal something I found that connects Artanis and Bum: On January 23 2014 10:51 bumatlarge wrote: I like this. And I thought that's what you meant about me. Don't lynch this guy anytime soon. If we are scumteam, then oh well, you caught us. The last thing kush said about zarepath before the lynch. To be fair, it was a unique situation, where we all switched on to him, rayn changed his mind, and we all switched off him. IT didn't seem as though kush was that interested in not lynching Zarepath, but covering his bases if he were to flip town. ##Vote kushm4sta It strikes me as really weird that Bum buddies up to Artanis with 'you caught us'. Put yourself in this scenario: You are town and being lightly accused of being scumbuddies with another guy who you see as town. Why would you ever, ever say the word 'us' when referring to the two of you? You don't know each other's true alignment, you don't know if they're scum you just kinda think they aren't. Like, imagine someone who is kinda townie, lets say VE. Imagine you and VE were being accused of being a scum team and VE said 'well if we're a scumteam, you caught us'. Wouldn't that really throw you off? Wouldn't your reaction be, hey hey hey VE get away from me. Artanis doesn't even mention it. What this means is bum and Artanis are already buddies. They are already comfortable enough with each other to accept the association of 'us'. And I mean, bum is pretty much saying 'lynch us' right there. The phrase 'if we are scumteam' is also really weird for a town to say. There's the association again, 'we'. When would you ever, as town, say 'Well if rayn and I are scumteam, lynch us.'? Bum can try to WIFOM his way out of this one but I think this is a rock solid scum slip. As icing on the cake, in that quote Bum says 'dont lynch this guy I like him'. And right now he's like well he is on my scum list, but don't lynch him: On January 24 2014 11:30 bumatlarge wrote: Here is my list at the moment. Town 11.) Thrawn 7.) Crossfire99 13.) Kush <3 12.) Johnnylaw Neutral 2.) BarristanTheBold 8.) VisceraEyes 9.) Wile E. Coyote 4.) Suki, the scum god Red 5.) Artanis[Xp] 1.) Zarepath On January 24 2014 13:10 bumatlarge wrote: Ok, I think we should wait to lynch Artanis for now at least. I'm undecided on Zarepath, but I think Artanis being scum can really tell us something. I have a town read on barristan with the way he posted during the lynch, and I do believe he was on a phone. He was actively looking for the right lynch, and I would rank him about the same as JLaw as far as townie goes. Artanis was clearly actively trying to move the lynch, but no longer think their alignments are the same. The vote was still up in the air, and if kush was town, artanis might pick up on why people aren't voting him. It's hard to grab the reins in a situation like this as town, and it was Artanis that started the Kush lynch. He was giving content at a stressful time which is important for townies to do. This might be a credit to how well artanis plays scum though. I can see why he would as mafia focus rayn after I did, and then attempt to grab the lynch by guiding the town. Artanis is a rough call for me. SUMMARY I've only presented the most damning pieces of evidence that I found last night. I wanted Artanis and bum to answer my questions so I could be sure of my reads, and now I am. Main points (Read the entire thing, because I don't explain the full logic in this summary): 1. Bum suspects WileE for a setup reason, but that's only possible if he knows the setup. Ie. he's scum 2. Artanis casts suspicion on boxers and there's no townie reason to do so 3. Bum and Artanis are totally fine associating with each other with 'we' and 'us' 4. Bum's flipping on his read of Artanis. First, town don't lynch this guy, then 1 of 2 scum on his list, then want to wait to lynch Artanis I think Bum and Artanis planned to start leading town after Night 2. I looked over their possible mislynch pushes and night kills and it seems like a pretty possible thing to do. These guys are good, they planned ahead, they stayed in the shadows and let town fight over itself while being careful about their targets. But they weren't counting on two boxers and two VT's (if you include kush with WileE) claiming in a fashion that pretty much makes them confirmed. ##vote bumatlarge Tomorrow we lynch Artanis. GG | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
##unvote ##vote Artanis | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
JonnyLaw, first your case says I am scumbuddies with bum, but right now Bum is kinda confirmed town.. well, that's not for sure but my big case on him blew up before it even left the ground. Also if Artanis flips scum then the bum-suki theory is false by default. And like, you point all these stupid things that I did, flip-flopping on people, soft or even hard defending bum AND balla. Frankly I'm a bit insulted that you'd think I'd play such a transparently awful game as scum lol. Let me just add in kush's question to me: On January 24 2014 11:56 kushm4sta wrote: current scumreads of possible scum. feel free to correct me. bum: artanis, zarepath -im saying this guy is solid town. fuck scumslips. He reminds me of ronald reagan or some shit. i just want to trust him. suki: JL, artanis, (kush??) -her scumreads change a lot for very little reason. Towards the end of d1, she was all about BALLA/KUSH scum. This stance is not ipso facto scummy, but it is a convenient stance for scum. One is town and one is scum, so the stance gives suki an excuse for voting the town, while still leaving the option open to vote to scum if she needs to so she doesn't look too bad. My question to suki: Do you realize you are basically scumreading JL for something you yourself did? essentially the balla/kush stance, leaning kush when it was convenient for scum to lean that way. very possible scum So my answer to all this is, I am town, and I have been bouncing around and 'giving people outs' as you call it because I really just am not sure about anyone's alignment. I genuinely wanted to believe Balla was town because I wanted to be teammates with him so maybe I tried too hard to read him as town (I also dont have experience of playing him when he was scum, and reading filters is not really as effective). The only thing I can say is, people might (for some reason) praise me on my scum game, but my town game is pretty damn awful. Yup. I was going to post this after the game, but I guess it's appropriate to say it here too. When I was writing my motivational speech to you, at the end of it I was re-reading it and got a bit sad. Like, I absolutely suck at hunting scum. I was wrong every single read in that game that I linked, and this game is no different. Sigh.. Anyways, if anyone has any questions for me or if there's an attack that I missed that you want me to clarify please ask cuz I've got nothing to hide. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
lead a mislynch against a veteran on Day 2 caused a parity cop to be outed before Day 2 was over. wrong about everyone | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I'm Ange777 | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Jonny when you come back can you reiterate, do you still find me scummy? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
That is, thrawn telling Artanis to vote Balla and both of them arguing why they should/shouldn't. I'm a bit suspicious of WileE actually. Let's say he planned to fake claim boxer from the start and just play the clueless townie card. After thrawn and Zarepath claims, he knows that he's in shit because the last boxer/doc/cop in town will know something's fishy and out him. So he has to come out right away and say woops I'm not actually blue my bad. WileE was also on Crossfire at the time of the lynch.. although he doesn't actually ever say why. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 25 2014 02:00 JonnyLaw wrote: Oh I have everything wrong set up related. Ignore those posts completely. I need to sleep. Was up all night finishing up a project for work. I thought barristan claimed and completely forgot zarepath. ... Ok ignore my follow up post too then cuz I just went with what Jonny said and didn't read carefully. The setup has to be: F: 7x VT, 1x Parity Cop, 2x Named VT, 2x Goon, 1x Mafia Role Blocker because there is no way doctor would have not saved rayn.. Although this means mafia took the chance and shot rayn anyways even though it was possible there was a doctor in the game with setup G: G: 7x VT, 1x Doc, 2x Named VT, 2x Goon, 1x Mafia Role Blocker Also, my point on WileE knowing that there had to be an extra power role is null. However it's still possible that scum didn't want to take the risk? hm........ have to think on it more. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 24 2014 16:46 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: JonnyLaw VE when you get back, can you explain why you voted Jonny instead of Artanis after unvoting bum? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I have no reason to doubt them at this moment so until further evidence shows up I'm going to assume this is the case. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
And that's enough setup analysis for now. I'll do some filter diving later and try to come up with a more solid case. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 25 2014 03:14 VisceraEyes wrote: This is important. Suki doesn't disbelieve the claim for an instant, if she were town she should be worried that Bum could be fake-claiming right? Because she's got this huge case on Bum, why wouldn't she even entertain the notion that he's scum fake-claiming? She even calls her case trash directly after the claim. It reeks of damage control to me. Like she had no idea he would claim and didn't know how to react. Might as well answer this. My entire case on Bum was that he had to be mafia because that was the only way to explain how he knew the setup. After his response, I realized that that wasn't the case, that it was possible for Bum to be town (ie boxer) and know WileE was lying. So my case fell apart. And yeah I'm going to believe his claim? Why would I not, unless there's a counter claim? Especially after his reveal there's no reason for me to doubt it. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 25 2014 03:10 JonnyLaw wrote: Artanis I'm not sure if you're being lazy or just scummier here. You really think that a scum team consists of jonnylaw/kush/balla24? Honestly you and rayn both must think I'm a scum god. I promoted lynching kush and balla all day1. Okay let's say you're right. In what world would I be sitting in a scum qt saying, "hey balla and kush lets chat and bus each other all day when there's not pressure on us yet! Balla, make sure to say you think I'm scum as well and let's see who can get lynched faster." Kush is always going to be a lynch target and Balla basically gave up on the game because I wouldn't stop calling him scum. Your accusations are so weak. They were weak when rayn made them and they're still weak. Actually, I thought that for a bit :< The conversation would then continue, "Hey I know, let's both target zarepath and crossfire and get them lynched. If there's two of us pushing them then that's practically a majority already!" When balla dies he'd be like "damn Jonny boy you won that one. Next time I'll win the lynch race." Also I still like Artanis lynch over Jonny. His defense isn't really doing anything for me. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
On January 25 2014 04:45 kushm4sta wrote: fake claim is more than 50% likely Hey kush, what's your thoughts on WileE possibly fakeclaiming? 1. WileE claims for absolutely no reason early in the game and goes 'oops my bad'. 2. WileE unclaims after the mess at the end of Day 1, after our two boxers have claimed. 3. WileE's vote was on Crossfire at the end of Day 1, with no explanation. 4. Sheeped onto Jonny at beginning of Day 2. WileE has not contributed to town, has not explained any of his votes or even revealed who he thinks is scum. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
He unclaimed right after zare and thrawn claimed. Which means, if he's actually scum fake claiming, he could be going oh shit if another townie claims right now I'll be caught in my lie. I mean, up until this point everyone's treated WileE as confirmed VT because the early boxer claim was such a bad move from scum.. However at this point I have a whole bunch of people who look town to me and no one who really looks scummy after Artanis flips red. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Can't we just like.. assume people were honorable? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
That was such a sick claim lol. I'll have to be more careful about claims in the future. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I wanted to thank you now, after the game is over.. Thank you for the encouraging PM's after my heated argument with Rayn about JL on N1. They really helped me feel better. Actually I was literally in tears when I posted my 'I suck at mafia post' .. thems the beats. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Yay we were on the same team even if we were both completely wrong about each other lol | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Rule #1 of Mafia: Never shoot Kush. Rule #2 of Mafia: NEVER SHOOT KUSH. I lol'd :D What's the story behind this? | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Also there was no way Zare was getting off the lynch on Day 1, except that I had to go and find Rules 11 and 12 and screw everything up for town lol. That was a brilliant play by you Zare | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Was hoping another townie would do it for me and save me, if I ever came under heavy suspicion. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
Make cases on them and do your best to convince people that those guys are scum. Of course it's not as simple as that cuz you have to also watch out for your teammates and stuff, but having a good mindset really helps. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
I can see it being infuriating cuz kush just does whatever o_O but having a meta where no one can tell if you're town or scum is actually realllly intriguing to me, even if he has to play a substandard town game to achieve it. | ||
|
suki
Canada1159 Posts
| ||
| ||
