Normal Mini Mafia: Episode I - Page 7

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 04:01 GMT

#1488

Hi bum, you never answered my question that I asked you earlier:

On January 23 2014 15:25 suki wrote:
Actually bum, out of curiosity could you let me know what your theory on WileE was, even though it's not valid anymore?

Show nested quote +

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 04:12 GMT

#1491

That's exactly why I'm asking you bum, stop dodging the question.

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 04:15 GMT

#1493

Anyways, wahaha, welcome back Jonny

I didn’t really read your attack on me because I’m town so whatever. While I was filter diving last night looking for the ‘final scum’, I decided that you weren’t scum after all, but I wanted to wait for your response just to see if you’d actually start playing again and helping town.

Reasons I don’t think you’re scum:

Balla’s only targets were Zarepath and Crossfire. It’s pretty stupid scum play for two scum to target the exact same people. Especially in the case of Zarepath who was already under heavy pressure from lots of people, scum can and should take the safe route, which you didn’t do.

Your fist pump ‘I caught a scum’ after the lynch followed by immediate rage at me is actually really understandable from a town point of view because who wouldn’t be mad at being called scummy for playing a great town game? And then to be #1 to lynch, yeah. Anyways, I also read your post:

On January 23 2014 12:05 JonnyLaw wrote:
No, I just don't care anymore. I get called scum for finding scum.

Figure it yourself. Because your one read so far is me and I'm town.

As pretty townie cuz it’s kinda exactly what I said in that newbie mini that I referenced in my earlier speech.

Hm. Also, having both balla and Jonny vote crossfire/zare from the beginning really doesn’t lend itself to a long term scum strategy at all, there’s no set up for the following days, which is too short sighted for people of Balla and Jonny’s calibur.

The scum slip that rayn pretty much convinced everyone with.. well, it’s pretty damning but hey, I was reading balla as town the whole time so it should be reasonable to expect Jonny having second thoughts of Balla’s towniness on the condition that his activity were to start picking up.

In short, Jonny is really town to me.

Plus, I think I’ve solved the game. Lol. Gimme a bit to write things up.

##unvote

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 05:02 GMT

#1494

Alright, first off, Bum and Artanis are the scum team.

The reason I pressured Bum is because I believed (and now I know) he slipped hard. Let me bring up the two posts:

On January 22 2014 08:35 bumatlarge wrote:
I'm gonna say last two scum are kush and Wile. Going to take my time looking them over.

On January 23 2014 04:04 bumatlarge wrote:

WileSlam I had a stupid reason, but he actually claimed green, which debunks it.

On January 24 2014 13:11 bumatlarge wrote:

Show nested quote +

Use your imagination

it's not worth talking about unless this an only this are going to effect your read on either me or Wile.

On January 24 2014 13:14 bumatlarge wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't think I have to answer it. You persist with this I'm going to vote you.

Why did Bum suddenly put pressure on WileE? WileE has always been considered definite blue VT because it's such a bad move for scum to make early game. Even Bum admitted it.

On January 20 2014 17:32 bumatlarge wrote:
We'll, No one else should claim. One named VT doesn't actually tell us or the mafia anything. I have my doubts that Wile is lying unless he's being a very intentionally hard to understand smurf. "Chez" or no, it doesn't hurt that bad. Anyone voting for him for that reason is being awfully hasty.

Now pretty much right after Bum said the last two scum are kush and Wile, Wile posted an apology post saying oops I'm actually green, not blue. Again, my thoughts and I assume everyone else's is that WileE was just being completely honest, because there is no way that scum is going to un-claim blue.

So why would Bum suspect WileE? We know now that there are 2 (claimed) named VT's, not 3. But to a townie it makes no difference. And that's the slip.

My guess is that the scum team is made up of 2 Goons, 1 RB. Because if this is the case, having 3 named VT's is impossible. Bum looks at the 3 claims and says, wait a sec, I don't know why, but one of those guys is lying about being named VT. Out of the three claimed boxers, WileE is the least genuine, the easiest to target.

Bum knows that WileE is lying, and if he can expose WileE, that's a free mislynch.

So he posts his suspicion of WileE, not expecting WileE to admit his mistake so fast. But now what?

Here is the important part. There is no reason at all for town to suspect that any one of the three boxers are lying. NONE. So the only way Bum could find WileE suspicious is if he knows the setup.

I asked him what his reason was for suspecting WileE just now, and he refused to tell me, and threatened to vote me if I didn't stop pressuring him. And why? Because it's impossible for him to explain without revealing that he's scum.

Now, lots of people have posted cases on Bum so I'm not going to reiterate why people think he's scummy. However, this is pretty damning by itself. Think it through, you'll see there's no town explanation for Bum to suspect WileE, especially due to claiming boxer..

Now, Artanis:

Artanis' play has been really quiet. He's asked a lot of questions but rarely expresses his own views. A safe way to play while looking like he's contributing. He followed the safe lynch on Zarepath, did not vote Balla, and also insta-voted JL on Day 2 with me and VE. Although he is now distancing himself from JL scum theory which fits with him being scum.

And now, when I asked him who he thought was scummy he said this:

On January 24 2014 06:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think it might be Barristan. I'm not sure though. The only point that really goes against him was the one I pointed out earlier, other than that nothing really stands out from his filter. If it's not Barristan, then I imagine it's one of the people that's town for the wrong reasons. It could be someone town just for a claim (Zarepath, Wile E, Thrawn). I haven't looked into them too much. Still plenty of time and I'm pretty sure on my other townreads.

Boxer's are a townie's safe haven. They are a way to eliminate people from consideration and make it easier to hunt scum. All three of our claims were made in a very convincing, townie manner. There is no reason, and Artanis has not stated any reason, why he would suspect the boxers, instead of other people. As scum though it makes perfect sense to try to start warming people up to lynching blues, because in the later parts of the game they have to make something happen.

People already find Artanis scummy so I don't want to go into the reasons already brought up, I just want to reveal something I found that connects Artanis and Bum:

On January 23 2014 10:51 bumatlarge wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 23 2014 10:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

On January 23 2014 09:53 suki wrote:
Hey Barristan, since you're pushing Artanis/bum so much, I assume you're thinking there's a chance Jonny might be town.

What do you think of Jonny's progression from thinking Zarepath looked genuine for getting angry after VE's blowup, to voting Zarepath as his number one choice for lynch day 1?

Hey Suki, if you're still here, what do you think of Barristan's answer regarding the question he sent your way?

On January 23 2014 10:13 bumatlarge wrote:
You people are really overestimating my scum game. I think the connection between myself and artanis is null. I don't think Artanis would defend me if we were both scum, he knows I'm volatile. Also, while we both suspected rayn for a time and we both changed that opinion, that is not something that scum do. Based on that alone, one of us being scum would make sense, because tracing a townie's line of thought is fairly scummy, but I don't believe Artanis and I were ever pushing people for the same reasons, including kush, but that's what I want to clarify.

Artanis, could you clarify your reasons for pushing kush? Do you know his meta? I thought his connection to balla was incriminating, and I am also not convinced by the way he claimed VT. But everything else from him has been borderline. I suggest you build a case, because I don't have a town read on you.

I have played a few games with kush but I've usually been too annoyed at him to read him well. I've never had the feeling that he thinks much ahead in games which is why the thing Rayn brought up makes me doubt about him. I'm using Rayn's meta reads on him mostly. Rayn mentioned how Kush mostly likes giving Town reads as scum because they're easy. This game, he started out with town reads and gave a few scumreads later on but didn't really expand on any of them. What rubbed me the wrong way most was how he reacted regarding Zarepath though. His confidence on Zare's towniness when the whole town was against him felt like he knew too much. His Balla defense is also incriminating. The only thing that makes me think we're dealing with a town Kush here was the thing regarding the VT claim, but that may be enough. Bleh.

On January 22 2014 07:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Where is everyone? Barristan, why aren't you engaging in conversation? It's probably between Kush and Bum today. Who do you think is scummier and why?

What did you mean by this? It's the only time you mention me without calling me town...

You two were the leading wagons like 30 minutes from the lynch. I wanted him to pick a side to hold him accountable to after the flip. It wasn't that my read on you has changed.

What do you think about Barristan?

I like this. And I thought that's what you meant about me. Don't lynch this guy anytime soon. If we are scumteam, then oh well, you caught us.

The last thing kush said about zarepath before the lynch.

Show nested quote +

To be fair, it was a unique situation, where we all switched on to him, rayn changed his mind, and we all switched off him. IT didn't seem as though kush was that interested in not lynching Zarepath, but covering his bases if he were to flip town.

##Vote kushm4sta

It strikes me as really weird that Bum buddies up to Artanis with 'you caught us'. Put yourself in this scenario: You are town and being lightly accused of being scumbuddies with another guy who you see as town. Why would you ever, ever say the word 'us' when referring to the two of you? You don't know each other's true alignment, you don't know if they're scum you just kinda think they aren't.
Like, imagine someone who is kinda townie, lets say VE. Imagine you and VE were being accused of being a scum team and VE said 'well if we're a scumteam, you caught us'. Wouldn't that really throw you off? Wouldn't your reaction be, hey hey hey VE get away from me.

Artanis doesn't even mention it.

What this means is bum and Artanis are already buddies. They are already comfortable enough with each other to accept the association of 'us'.

And I mean, bum is pretty much saying 'lynch us' right there.

The phrase 'if we are scumteam' is also really weird for a town to say. There's the association again, 'we'. When would you ever, as town, say 'Well if rayn and I are scumteam, lynch us.'?

Bum can try to WIFOM his way out of this one but I think this is a rock solid scum slip.

As icing on the cake, in that quote Bum says 'dont lynch this guy I like him'. And right now he's like well he is on my scum list, but don't lynch him:

On January 24 2014 11:30 bumatlarge wrote:
Here is my list at the moment.

Town
11.) Thrawn
7.) Crossfire99
13.) Kush <3
12.) Johnnylaw

Neutral
2.) BarristanTheBold
8.) VisceraEyes
9.) Wile E. Coyote
4.) Suki, the scum god

Red
5.) Artanis[Xp]
1.) Zarepath

On January 24 2014 13:10 bumatlarge wrote:
Ok, I think we should wait to lynch Artanis for now at least. I'm undecided on Zarepath, but I think Artanis being scum can really tell us something. I have a town read on barristan with the way he posted during the lynch, and I do believe he was on a phone. He was actively looking for the right lynch, and I would rank him about the same as JLaw as far as townie goes. Artanis was clearly actively trying to move the lynch, but no longer think their alignments are the same.

Show nested quote +

The vote was still up in the air, and if kush was town, artanis might pick up on why people aren't voting him. It's hard to grab the reins in a situation like this as town, and it was Artanis that started the Kush lynch. He was giving content at a stressful time which is important for townies to do. This might be a credit to how well artanis plays scum though. I can see why he would as mafia focus rayn after I did, and then attempt to grab the lynch by guiding the town. Artanis is a rough call for me.

SUMMARY

I've only presented the most damning pieces of evidence that I found last night. I wanted Artanis and bum to answer my questions so I could be sure of my reads, and now I am.

Main points (Read the entire thing, because I don't explain the full logic in this summary):
1. Bum suspects WileE for a setup reason, but that's only possible if he knows the setup. Ie. he's scum
2. Artanis casts suspicion on boxers and there's no townie reason to do so
3. Bum and Artanis are totally fine associating with each other with 'we' and 'us'
4. Bum's flipping on his read of Artanis. First, town don't lynch this guy, then 1 of 2 scum on his list, then want to wait to lynch Artanis

I think Bum and Artanis planned to start leading town after Night 2. I looked over their possible mislynch pushes and night kills and it seems like a pretty possible thing to do. These guys are good, they planned ahead, they stayed in the shadows and let town fight over itself while being careful about their targets. But they weren't counting on two boxers and two VT's (if you include kush with WileE) claiming in a fashion that pretty much makes them confirmed.

##vote bumatlarge

Tomorrow we lynch Artanis.

GG

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 05:31 GMT

#1498

Huhhhhhhhhhh.

##unvote
##vote Artanis

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 05:32 GMT

#1499

And here I thought I had a slam dunk.

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 05:38 GMT

#1500

Also bum I'm not scum.

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 05:57 GMT

#1503

Let me address my attackers, particularly JonnyLaw.

JonnyLaw, first your case says I am scumbuddies with bum, but right now Bum is kinda confirmed town.. well, that's not for sure but my big case on him blew up before it even left the ground. Also if Artanis flips scum then the bum-suki theory is false by default.

And like, you point all these stupid things that I did, flip-flopping on people, soft or even hard defending bum AND balla. Frankly I'm a bit insulted that you'd think I'd play such a transparently awful game as scum lol.

Let me just add in kush's question to me:

On January 24 2014 11:56 kushm4sta wrote:
current scumreads of possible scum. feel free to correct me.

bum: artanis, zarepath
-im saying this guy is solid town. fuck scumslips. He reminds me of ronald reagan or some shit. i just want to trust him.

suki: JL, artanis, (kush??)
-her scumreads change a lot for very little reason. Towards the end of d1, she was all about BALLA/KUSH scum. This stance is not ipso facto scummy, but it is a convenient stance for scum. One is town and one is scum, so the stance gives suki an excuse for voting the town, while still leaving the option open to vote to scum if she needs to so she doesn't look too bad.
My question to suki: Do you realize you are basically scumreading JL for something you yourself did? essentially the balla/kush stance, leaning kush when it was convenient for scum to lean that way.
very possible scum

So my answer to all this is, I am town, and I have been bouncing around and 'giving people outs' as you call it because I really just am not sure about anyone's alignment. I genuinely wanted to believe Balla was town because I wanted to be teammates with him so maybe I tried too hard to read him as town (I also dont have experience of playing him when he was scum, and reading filters is not really as effective).

The only thing I can say is, people might (for some reason) praise me on my scum game, but my town game is pretty damn awful. Yup.

I was going to post this after the game, but I guess it's appropriate to say it here too. When I was writing my motivational speech to you, at the end of it I was re-reading it and got a bit sad. Like, I absolutely suck at hunting scum. I was wrong every single read in that game that I linked, and this game is no different.

Sigh.. Anyways, if anyone has any questions for me or if there's an attack that I missed that you want me to clarify please ask cuz I've got nothing to hide.

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 06:02 GMT

#1505

So, so far my town credentials read:
lead a mislynch against a veteran on Day 2
caused a parity cop to be outed before Day 2 was over.
wrong about everyone

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 06:06 GMT

#1507

I'm not scum, so those are pretty much the worst credentials ever.

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 06:07 GMT

#1508

And actually I even read your soft-claim wrong, I thought you were claiming boxer -_-;

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 06:23 GMT

#1513

VT =[
I'm Ange777

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 14:10 GMT

#1535

I'm just going to give Jonny the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't read my fail case on Bum, the aftermath of that, or my defense post.

Jonny when you come back can you reiterate, do you still find me scummy?

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 16:56 GMT

#1548

I just had a quick look at thrawn and it's kind of hard to believe a thrawn-artanis team would have the conversation on Balla that they did.

That is, thrawn telling Artanis to vote Balla and both of them arguing why they should/shouldn't.

I'm a bit suspicious of WileE actually. Let's say he planned to fake claim boxer from the start and just play the clueless townie card. After thrawn and Zarepath claims, he knows that he's in shit because the last boxer/doc/cop in town will know something's fishy and out him. So he has to come out right away and say woops I'm not actually blue my bad.

WileE was also on Crossfire at the time of the lynch.. although he doesn't actually ever say why.

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 17:00 GMT

#1550

Actually Jonny, B being the only setup makes sense with my WileE theory, because that means town has a GF, which would rule out setup D which is the only setup with 2 boxers and no power roles. So scum is absolutely sure there's another power role.

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 17:02 GMT

#1553

Hi thrawn, reasoning?

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 17:07 GMT

#1556

On January 25 2014 02:00 JonnyLaw wrote:
Oh I have everything wrong set up related. Ignore those posts completely. I need to sleep. Was up all night finishing up a project for work.

I thought barristan claimed and completely forgot zarepath.

... Ok ignore my follow up post too then cuz I just went with what Jonny said and didn't read carefully.

The setup has to be:
F: 7x VT, 1x Parity Cop, 2x Named VT, 2x Goon, 1x Mafia Role Blocker

because there is no way doctor would have not saved rayn.. Although this means mafia took the chance and shot rayn anyways even though it was possible there was a doctor in the game with setup G:

G: 7x VT, 1x Doc, 2x Named VT, 2x Goon, 1x Mafia Role Blocker

Also, my point on WileE knowing that there had to be an extra power role is null. However it's still possible that scum didn't want to take the risk?

hm........ have to think on it more.

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 17:08 GMT

#1557

That's true thrawn.

On January 24 2014 16:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: JonnyLaw

VE when you get back, can you explain why you voted Jonny instead of Artanis after unvoting bum?

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 17:11 GMT

#1558

Also, the setup has to be F, but only if we assume both Zarepath and thrawn's boxer claims are true.

I have no reason to doubt them at this moment so until further evidence shows up I'm going to assume this is the case.

suki

Canada1159 Posts

January 24 2014 17:12 GMT

#1559

Best case scenario is Artanis flips godfather. Then we just lynch WileE, thrawn and Zare cuz one of them definitely lied.

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