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Golden Sun: The Lost Age Mafia Djinn Edition - Page 46

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
May 21 2014 03:41 GMT
#901
On May 21 2014 12:40 mtamburini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 11:48 Steveling wrote:
On May 21 2014 11:45 Holyflare wrote:
it's not trash talk i'm updating hapa on why i'm voting you because you're doing the exact same things and this game i'm town so really you are playing completely anti win-con this game (which is what you were doing last game too) and until you learn to respect that and actually play mafia then i'll say what i feel like


What should I do then?
How to be good towny?


Dislike this ALOT. You cannot be taught to be town you just are. Mafia has to try and act town.


Don't know, I guess I have a natural affinity for scum play.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
May 21 2014 03:42 GMT
#902
On May 21 2014 12:40 27ninjabunnies wrote:
@TehPoofter: So I've read through yell0w's filter, and as I stated before, I like yellow's post here. I feel as if he was mafia, he wouldn't even bring this up, as he could follow exactly what he had spelled out.

[red]In our previous game, yell0w contradicted himself, much like he did this game, and I called him out for it. I pushed on him, which is how I got my read on him.[red] Yell0w seems to be joking a bit towards the beginning, such as his preferring a "alive cat to a dead cat" and pretty relaxed. I haven't played a game with him as mafia, but it seems like a town play to me.

I do agree that his switching to go with BH on the odin lynch is a bit weird, especially since he disagreed with it earlier, but it may just be him reassessing the game there.

He also hasn't posted much for me to get more of a read, but I'm leaning more town here.


so if you only got your read on him last game for pushing him on his contradiction why this game did you decide to call him towny for it instead of pushing him to get the previous read?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
May 21 2014 03:43 GMT
#903
god damn it cephiro walls of text
27ninjabunnies
Profile Joined April 2014
United States2486 Posts
May 21 2014 03:44 GMT
#904
On May 21 2014 12:39 mtamburini wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 21 2014 11:45 Cephiro wrote:
First up, the thoughts behind my questioning. While initially reading the thread I noticed 27ninja is a very cooperative person. Which is why I started the whole exchange with her.

Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
If I'm avoiding your question, it's because I have a pretty good damn reason as to why.
But because you are being persistant, the ones I have my eye on are Steveling, WaveofShadow and Tehpoofter.


She takes part in the discussion a lot and actively, aiming to contribute (or look like contributing.)

Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 07:30 27ninjabunnies wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:28 jampidampi wrote:
Before I continue, were you annoyed with my guestions?


No, questions are good. They get reads. Reads are good.

So the questions were not annoying. I was more annoyed by the fact you said I was avoiding what you were asking.

I think I had made it clear as to why. But please continue. I want to hear more.


Her intention is to try and play as honestly as possible. Which again, is not a bad thing from a town perspective, but if you roll scum and try to play with the least amount of lies possible, it will be hard. The point of interest here is her admitting her annoyance to being called out on her play. She encourages others to share the reasons on hers, yet withholds her own for "reasons", are excused as:

Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
But this doesn't necessarily mean they are scum. I rather read more of their play and interactions before I straight out call someone mafia. The majority of these people I haven't played with, and this is my second forum game.

If I don't have logic behind my reads, where does that put me? As a freaking town more likely to get mislynched.

So hold your horses, let me get my reads, and then we'll talk.


While I definitely agree with the logic behind it, her reasoning doesn't seem sincere. It's as if she wants to put content into the thread, but avoid (for now), making any decisions that may come to haunt her play later. Specifically: She doesn't want to be read as scum. Obviously, no town player does, but her play is (even self-admittingly) aimed at not being read as scum. Even if you are read as scum as a townie, it doesn't mean you can't manage to prove your town-ness. Surely, it's an uphill battle, but for someone putting as much effort as her in the game seems unlikely to be _that_ scared of being a misread as a town. Rather, I feel the fear comes from other players correctly reading her as scum.

Analysis break: My questions, the reasons behind it, and my conclusions of her replies.

Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 10:28 27ninjabunnies wrote:
On May 21 2014 10:27 Cephiro wrote:
Confirming one thing, are you asking for my reasons as for:

1) Why I'm reading you as mafia?
2) Why I'm voting on you?


Well I assume you are voting me because you are reading me as mafia.

So, why are you reading me as mafia?


The first exchange. My question here aims at finding the natural level of her thought process. It may not be the best comparison, but think about chess. What I'm aiming to find here is whether she thinks about:

1) The current move
2) The reasons behind the current move
3) The follow-up to the current move

Or a multitude of the above. As you can see, she instantly jumps into an assumption that I vote her because I read her as mafia. She doesn't take her thought process further (into different possibilities), into questions such as:

"Would he vote for me for a reason other than suspecting me as mafia?"

Instead, she takes it for granted that I suspect her to be mafia. It fits well with her wanting to play as honestly as possible, trying not to doubt the claims of others. This I feel is a trait belonging to the person.

So here I establish the fact that she doesn't think things ahead. Her thought process is not zero though, but considering the current step with the information given to her comes more naturally. (There are people who naturally start thinking multiple steps ahead.)

Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 10:46 27ninjabunnies wrote:
On May 21 2014 10:39 Cephiro wrote:
I will have to respond to your question with another to stay true to my motives.

If I didn't consider you as mafia, why would I be voting for you?

Even if my replies seem very off to you, please do respond. You're under evaluation.


If you don't consider me as mafia, you shouldn't be voting me.

The only reason outside of you considering me as mafia for why you would vote for me is this: you want to get a read on me via my reactions to your voting on me to see if I react poorly or more town favored. This is only used if you don't have a read on me from what I've previously posted.

This can also lead to reads from other people if they begin questioning you or agreeing with you.

So again, why are you reading me as mafia?


Here is my followup. My question is intentionally aimed to hint at a possibility of thinking outside the box. As I came into the conclusion that she doesn't naturally by instinct start thinking things too many steps ahead, I wanted to see the reaction that would come after hinted towards doing such.

Her response is quite interesting. She does correctly analyze on scenario, that is, if I didn't have a proper read and wanted to gain more information on her. There are many others she does not think about however. What I'm most interested in, is this crucial miss: She does not at all consider a possibility where I am scum. Ding ding, alarm bells anyone?

Note how she points out that if I don't really consider her as mafia, I shouldn't be voting for her. Yet at the end of her post, she asks why I'm reading her as mafia. This means that she thinks (knows?) of me being a town player suspecting her, rather than any other possibility. Why could I not be a scum player trying to start a wagon on her? She doesn't even go through this option at all, even after being hinted to think outside the box. It's as if she knows I'm town. That's not possible unless she's scum.

On to my third question:

Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:
On May 21 2014 10:54 Cephiro wrote:
One last question before I will answer your question.

I already know you read me as town. If you had a strong scumread on me however, would you go all-out to make me the lynch of the day right away?


I like how confident you are in yourself. As for reading you as town, that's yet to be determined.
If I had a strong scumread on you, yes, I would probably push on you to get you lynched. As for right away, it depends. If I think I can have support, I'll push right away. If I don't think I'll have any support, I'd need t find evidence that can prove or atleast put into speculation that you are mafia.

So, your answer?


This question was mainly to confirm. I was fairly certain that she does not intentionally downplay her ability to mislead her opponent. Combined with the logical deduction of her naturally not thinking ahead, and with her honest tendency to answer questions, I have no reason to believe she'd be lying about this one either. It would be possible to downplay or not reveal your scumread to try and trap a person into a situation which essentially confirms them as scum to other players, or many shenanigans of the kind. Her response however is strictly related to her own confidence about her read. If she's sure about her read, she'll go for it (no downplaying). If she's unsure, she'll work to be able to trust her read enough to convince others. (Upping her own play.)

With this I come into the conclusion that she is not downplaying her abilities when responding to others, or in any questions that she replied to me. This is exactly why I consider the 2nd question where she does NOT EVEN CONSIDER ME AS POSSIBLE SCUM extremely alarming. Also take in consideration how interested in she is in the reasons why I suspect her to be mafia. She doesn't just ignore and wait for me to actually provide something, but she actively asks for it again and again. If not combined with the above, I would see this as a townie trait, but I feel she is trying to get to know her mistakes/flaws in early play so she doesn't make the same mistakes later on.

TLDR:

1) Is afraid of being seen as scum
2) Extremely co-operative due to not wanting to be looked upon badly, refer to point 1.
3) Ignores the possibility of the player questioning her being scum.
4) When suspected, wants to know the flaws in her play to not repeat the mistake later

Like literally, for one moment she doesn't think I could be scum trying to push her for mislynch.

27ninjabunnies is mafia, and needs to be lynched. My vote stays where it is.

Opinions?


Goddamn bunnies back to scummy now, I need you to pretend your formaled and defend yourself. He brings up all the points I wanted to kill yellow in other game. Do I need to claim Bird Jesus again and say im going to shoot you and see if I get roleblocked?


Hey tamburini, before you say I'm scummy once again, read my response to him.


I suspect the secret of personal attraction is locked up in our unique imperfections, flaws and frailties.~Hugh Mackay
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
May 21 2014 03:45 GMT
#905
Hf, do YOU think the 180 actually matters? And is there any pro-scum reason?
Fe fi fo fum.
27ninjabunnies
Profile Joined April 2014
United States2486 Posts
May 21 2014 03:46 GMT
#906
On May 21 2014 12:42 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 12:40 27ninjabunnies wrote:
@TehPoofter: So I've read through yell0w's filter, and as I stated before, I like yellow's post here. I feel as if he was mafia, he wouldn't even bring this up, as he could follow exactly what he had spelled out.

[red]In our previous game, yell0w contradicted himself, much like he did this game, and I called him out for it. I pushed on him, which is how I got my read on him.[red] Yell0w seems to be joking a bit towards the beginning, such as his preferring a "alive cat to a dead cat" and pretty relaxed. I haven't played a game with him as mafia, but it seems like a town play to me.

I do agree that his switching to go with BH on the odin lynch is a bit weird, especially since he disagreed with it earlier, but it may just be him reassessing the game there.

He also hasn't posted much for me to get more of a read, but I'm leaning more town here.


so if you only got your read on him last game for pushing him on his contradiction why this game did you decide to call him towny for it instead of pushing him to get the previous read?


Because I was reading him townie for his initial post (the one I just linked in this read). I felt as if I didn't need to push on him, plus someone else was doing so by calling him scum for that contradiction. When yell0w respnds, I'll have more of a read.
I suspect the secret of personal attraction is locked up in our unique imperfections, flaws and frailties.~Hugh Mackay
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
May 21 2014 03:46 GMT
#907
On May 21 2014 12:45 austinmcc wrote:
Hf, do YOU think the 180 actually matters? And is there any pro-scum reason?


in the context of the thread it's following the flow of the game and merging with what people are talking about so yes, it's entirely plausible that someone new would do that
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
May 21 2014 03:47 GMT
#908
Honestly ceph, I read that and my eyes just glaze over. Normally I find your analysis quite good, but this just seems like an absurdly technical case that makes a few too many assumptions about certain posts.

For example, I can't figure out how her posts some how assume that you're town. I've read that conversation repeatedly, and it just seems like you're reading into it waaaaay too much.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Cavalinho
Profile Joined February 2014
United States946 Posts
May 21 2014 03:48 GMT
#909
We should either make Cephiro make legible posts or waste him.

I'm not reading that dogshit and I'm pretty sure he did this same kind of garbage zoning off into his own little world in Cell.
Spectaticle
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
May 21 2014 03:49 GMT
#910
^ much hate
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
May 21 2014 03:50 GMT
#911
i'm on the 'ninjabunnies is town' side of whatever argument's going on right now
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Tehpoofter
Profile Joined October 2013
United States2911 Posts
May 21 2014 03:51 GMT
#912
On May 21 2014 12:46 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 12:45 austinmcc wrote:
Hf, do YOU think the 180 actually matters? And is there any pro-scum reason?


in the context of the thread it's following the flow of the game and merging with what people are talking about so yes, it's entirely plausible that someone new would do that


He also was around reading the thread chiming up then me and HF pushed on him and he asked for why I voted and gave reasons on him and he hasn't responded.

I think his later posts are far more damning than his earlier stuff with the RNG I think the nudging of wagons to start vs starting them yourself or building a case is more mafia.
Tehpoofter
Profile Joined October 2013
United States2911 Posts
May 21 2014 03:52 GMT
#913
On May 21 2014 12:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
i'm on the 'ninjabunnies is town' side of whatever argument's going on right now


Where are you on Yellow?

Where are you on Slam/Geript?
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
May 21 2014 03:53 GMT
#914
i'm not anywhere on yellow.

slam could be mafia and geript could be town
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Tehpoofter
Profile Joined October 2013
United States2911 Posts
May 21 2014 03:54 GMT
#915
@ foolishness/mattchew After you read a couple of the filters can you give a list of where you stand? Only responding by asking questions is lazy. Also I consider asking you guys to label who is posting what then realized Mattchew's signature will be the one with multiple cusswords.

#Foolishness: Read: Xatalos
Tehpoofter
Profile Joined October 2013
United States2911 Posts
May 21 2014 03:54 GMT
#916
On May 21 2014 12:53 thrawn2112 wrote:
i'm not anywhere on yellow.

slam could be mafia and geript could be town


No where as in hes null or no where as in you haven't read him? What about me and HF for accusing him how does our push look like? from townie or mafia or w.e. side?
Cephiro
Profile Joined May 2011
Finland1934 Posts
May 21 2014 03:55 GMT
#917
On May 21 2014 12:23 Tehpoofter wrote:
What should she have answered to be TOWN? Like i see you did that thing as mafia but if you ask a question and there are no right answers the questions are flawed. I think thats how you played this interaction. Yellow is the first one to analyse btw. And just for the record glad you're not just making one giant post and fucking off like the other games we've played. Coming out swinging I like although I don't like this post


Alright, so again. The questions weren't aimed to directly affirm her as mafia or town, but her thought process.

The first question was about if she thinks ahead or not. Whether she does or not doesn't make her mafia or town.

The second question was to see her thought process if she thought ahead (because the first question made me assured she doesn't, not too far at least.).

Her reply:

If you don't consider me as mafia, you shouldn't be voting me.

The only reason outside of you considering me as mafia for why you would vote for me is this: you want to get a read on me via my reactions to your voting on me to see if I react poorly or more town favored. This is only used if you don't have a read on me from what I've previously posted.

This can also lead to reads from other people if they begin questioning you or agreeing with you.

So again, why are you reading me as mafia?


The main point here is the interaction between the first and last statement. It can easily be seen that she thinks that I consider her mafia, which is correct.

Now, you're in a situation where a player is voting on you, asking you questions, since they think you are mafia.

1) Why would you at this point be fairly certain about that player being town, and not point out the possibility of him being scum?
2) Why is your first thought to find the reasons why you are suspected?

If I am scum in that situation, my first thought (if I don't know already) is the reason why I'm being suspected.
Even if I salvage the situation, if I'm dumb enough to make the mistake again, I will get #rekt.
Which is why

Step 1) Identify the reason you are being suspected
Step 2) Prove why that reason is invalid
Step 3) Ascertain your position by providing pro-town (or pro-town looking) content
Step 4) Mislynch townies

If I'm town and I'm being called scum, I instantly know it's because:

1) Someone is making conclusions that might be logical, but still untrue
2) Scum is pushing me for mislynch, or just trying to discredit my thread presence.

Her thoughts are much more aligned with the way a scum thinks in this situation (in my opinion).

The third question is to affirm that she isn't of the downplaying kind = she doesn't intentionally hide information to make herself look a worse player than what she is. Rather the opposite, she talks about how confident she is in her mafia-playing abilities. This makes me not believe her claims of having really thought ahead (which again is irrelevant, her response on the other hand is relevant.).

These factors combined with the rest of her play like I pointed out, make me feel strongly certain about her being mafia rather than town. If you feel like I didn't elaborate on a point enough, do say and I'll explain further.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
May 21 2014 03:56 GMT
#918
On May 21 2014 12:48 Cavalinho wrote:
We should either make Cephiro make legible posts or waste him.

I'm not reading that dogshit and I'm pretty sure he did this same kind of garbage zoning off into his own little world in Cell.


o.o

Where did this anger come from? You have a history with him or something?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Tehpoofter
Profile Joined October 2013
United States2911 Posts
May 21 2014 03:56 GMT
#919
On May 21 2014 12:47 Hapahauli wrote:
Honestly ceph, I read that and my eyes just glaze over. Normally I find your analysis quite good, but this just seems like an absurdly technical case that makes a few too many assumptions about certain posts.

For example, I can't figure out how her posts some how assume that you're town. I've read that conversation repeatedly, and it just seems like you're reading into it waaaaay too much.



Hes tunneling something which I respect but if he can't wake up and give reads on someone else he's not going to be very useful.

@Ceph I think your case is full of bias can you read some other people in the game for a couple hours then come back later and reread bunnies and see if you're still in the same spot I think a fresh set of eyes would help.
Cavalinho
Profile Joined February 2014
United States946 Posts
May 21 2014 03:57 GMT
#920
On May 21 2014 12:41 Steveling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2014 12:40 mtamburini wrote:
On May 21 2014 11:48 Steveling wrote:
On May 21 2014 11:45 Holyflare wrote:
it's not trash talk i'm updating hapa on why i'm voting you because you're doing the exact same things and this game i'm town so really you are playing completely anti win-con this game (which is what you were doing last game too) and until you learn to respect that and actually play mafia then i'll say what i feel like


What should I do then?
How to be good towny?


Dislike this ALOT. You cannot be taught to be town you just are. Mafia has to try and act town.


Don't know, I guess I have a natural affinity for scum play.


It's because your scum posts are based on making other people feel smart rather than making you look like an idiot.
Spectaticle
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