On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote: Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice
On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote: yes please do
##unvote ##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise)
On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote: if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care
despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns
Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS.
Oh wait, except me.
^^^ case in point
anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng
And if this game had no newbies in it, I'd take your statistics under advisement. Also in games like 7 town 2 scum (which it ypically use) you'd expect a 25% chance of getting scum anyways, 40% is pretty close.
On May 21 2014 07:47 Tehpoofter wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:39 marvellosity wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:38 Blazinghand wrote: So Marv, you gotta admit, these whole steveling/holyflare thing is pretty silly and not worth your attention. What do you think about the possibility of an rng lynch in this setup? Could be good, yes?
As you're probably well aware, I've never RNGed, never supported RNG, and never will. Draw your own conclusions :p
I know you disagree with me philosophically about the usefulness of RNG, I just figured maybe in a massively multifactional setup you might find it alluring. Well, next time then!
On May 21 2014 07:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:36 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 06:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 21 2014 06:38 Blazinghand wrote: [quote]
Or Instead of the old fashioned homeopathic non-vaccinated way, you could use your vote in the scientifically correct way and vote OdinofPergo!
Vaccines cause autism tho
/s
seriously though, the story you're going with is "I realized you're right, and even if you're scum, your plan will probably work and we'll probably hit scum... but I'm not gonna follow your plan, because of ill-defind reasons"?
Actually yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with you. I play mafia for fun and us all picking an RNG then sitting back and seeing what happens doesn't seem fun to me. Plus I at least have enough faith in my own deduction and reasoning skills to think that I have just as good a chance of finding scum with analysis as RNG does.
Ok, so that's a reason. I will note though that historically, TL towns tend not to statistically significantly outperform RNG on D1. I'm not proposing RNG for no reason; I think lynching OdinofPergo is our best chance today. If nothing else, I guarantee that pulling this off will have two results
1) it will be legendary 2) it will cause a massive shitstorm because everyone hates RNG. this shitstorm will give us lots of things to base reads off of for D2
What reads do you hope to garner? Like based upon the lynch of Odin? Like who defends/pushes him? Why not just do that on someone who actually does something scummy. I think that I'd rather lose to being bad that win to RNG... I'm not playing a slot machine I'm playing mafia. RNG is bad and you should feel bad.
Why not someone else? Because RNG. RNG is the best and I feel good.
Obviously you don't really believe in the strategy. If someone thinks they're not better than RNG then they should just vote and leave the thread and come back in 48 hours and see how they did. But you clearly said you think you're a good player aka better than RNG so you don't even believe in an RNG lynch.
And I'm going to vote on who I think is scummy. Hopefully its right but even if its wrong then I will be happy that I had some influence over it and not just randomness Last time I'm commenting on this btw as its silly and unhelpful to town.
I'm the best player in TL Mafia and I believe in RNG lynch because it's objectively the best tool. The definition of being a good player is basically using RNG lynch, in a setup like this. You don't just vote randomly and leave the thread, because most people don't do RNG lynch. You make sure everyone else follows you too. By your logic, if I have a scumread on someone, I should just vote them and leave the thread, my job is done.
Typical poof.
So lets say we had an RNG shot and a lynch. BUT you could only base one on RNG. Who do you find scummy in this thread so far that you would have to way in on for the non-RNG portion?
We don't have an RNg shot and a lynch though, we just have a lynch. Let's RNG it.
On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote: 9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg.
Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife.
i thought you were hosting. wtf.
##vote: Koshi
Even though I am a divine being in this game. I ascended and joined the plebs. I don't have anything against plebs though, they are simple but amusing beings. I allow the smartest of them to call me Koshi. You can call me Master.
I might have meant descended. It is just hard for me to grasp going downwards.
It was such a nice post, I wasn't going to correct it for you.
On May 21 2014 06:49 Yell0w wrote: So about this whole RNG thing, aren't scum players more likely to vote for OdinofPergo if he isn't in their faction since they don't even need a reason to vote him? They can just claim they're doing it for RNG and get a lynch on someone who isn't aligned with them?
Wouldn't a better way be to each claim we are RNG voting, then use the RNG on the post in which we claimed it and then vote for whomever our own post said? So that there is no way to know if you're going to lynch someone of your own faction or not so it's riskier for scum to go by RNG? Maybe I'm completely wrong here.
I like that, I haven't thought it through - But I like it.
RNG V2
On May 21 2014 06:52 Valenius wrote: Actually, won't it cause the same theoretical situation, just with votes more spread?
On May 21 2014 07:33 Xatalos wrote: Why this change of heart?
Chalis (ハート Heart) is an antagonist in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. Together with Blados, she is one of the commanders of a secretive military nation named Tuaparang.
All three are bad guys taunting us in the thread. I rest my case.
On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote: Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice
On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote: yes please do
##unvote ##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise)
On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote: if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care
despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns
Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS.
Oh wait, except me.
^^^ case in point
anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng
If you add in newbie games, we just lynch town/any claimed power roles. ezpz
6 posts, all of them a mixture of "+1'ing" other people and irrelevant comments. His filter reads a lot like someone who's artificially trying to insert himself in discussion.
On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote: Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum.
Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced?
As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it.
2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town.
That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes?
I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers.
The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right?
Also nice goalpost moving.
1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions.
2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1.
So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch???
From OP: "Town-Wincondition: Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town!"
Not necessarily all scum aligned?
Are you trolling me or are you serious? Pulling publicly-available information from the OP does not make someone town.
Also, why do you have your vote on the most obvious townie in the thread?
On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote: Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum.
Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced?
As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it.
2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town.
That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes?
I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers.
The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right?
Also nice goalpost moving.
1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions.
2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1.
So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch???
From OP: "Town-Wincondition: Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town!"
Not necessarily all scum aligned?
Thanks for the support, but you haven't explicitly stated what your thoughts are on the Odinofpergo lynch are. Now that the tide is turning against you, this might be your only chance to do so. So what's the deal?
In short; I'm okay with either or yours, or Yellow's method (if followed fully)
From some of the responses so far; Yellow's method wouldn't work due to enough unwilling players, which when votes would be spread wide not tall would nullify any effect of the random voting. Yours I'm okay with. Obviously oop hasn't posted yet, so he'll probably be pretty salty, and it would require probably.. 14 of the players signing on to it?
My first post that the steve carell posting guy got upset with was saying im shit at day 1's with 9 players (newbie games). I'll stand by this, regardless of whether he thinks its scummy or not. For me, RNG is about as good as me picking a d1 lynch target.
Jampi could easily be scum for the "filler posts" reason, but you gotta admit, that's a pretty weak reason to vote someone D1. It might _feel_ better than RNG lynching, but I think RNG lynching is more likely to hit scum. Don't you?
On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote: 9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg.
Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife.
i thought you were hosting. wtf.
##vote: Koshi
Even though I am a divine being in this game. I ascended and joined the plebs. I don't have anything against plebs though, they are simple but amusing beings. I allow the smartest of them to call me Koshi. You can call me Master.
I might have meant descended. It is just hard for me to grasp going downwards.
It was such a nice post, I wasn't going to correct it for you.
On May 21 2014 06:49 Yell0w wrote: So about this whole RNG thing, aren't scum players more likely to vote for OdinofPergo if he isn't in their faction since they don't even need a reason to vote him? They can just claim they're doing it for RNG and get a lynch on someone who isn't aligned with them?
Wouldn't a better way be to each claim we are RNG voting, then use the RNG on the post in which we claimed it and then vote for whomever our own post said? So that there is no way to know if you're going to lynch someone of your own faction or not so it's riskier for scum to go by RNG? Maybe I'm completely wrong here.
I like that, I haven't thought it through - But I like it.
RNG V2
On May 21 2014 06:52 Valenius wrote: Actually, won't it cause the same theoretical situation, just with votes more spread?
On May 21 2014 07:33 Xatalos wrote: Why this change of heart?
Chalis (ハート Heart) is an antagonist in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. Together with Blados, she is one of the commanders of a secretive military nation named Tuaparang.
All three are bad guys taunting us in the thread. I rest my case.
On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote: Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice
On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote: yes please do
##unvote ##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise)
On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote: if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care
despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns
Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS.
Oh wait, except me.
^^^ case in point
anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng
If you add in newbie games, we just lynch town/any claimed power roles. ezpz
6 posts, all of them a mixture of "+1'ing" other people and irrelevant comments. His filter reads a lot like someone who's artificially trying to insert himself in discussion.
##Vote: Valenius
i think he's town for this post:
On May 21 2014 07:50 Valenius wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:48 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:45 jampidampi wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:33 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 06:40 jampidampi wrote:
On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote: Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum.
Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced?
As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it.
2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town.
That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes?
I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers.
The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right?
Also nice goalpost moving.
1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions.
2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1.
So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch???
From OP: "Town-Wincondition: Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town!"
Not necessarily all scum aligned?
Are you trolling me or are you serious? Pulling publicly-available information from the OP does not make someone town.
Also, why do you have your vote on the most obvious townie in the thread?
because you aren't reading what i've stated twice and no it's absolutely not trolling, who is more likely to pull someone from the op indicating that some factions might not be scum aligned? mafia, town or a maybe town aligned 3p factioner? to me it looks more like that latter regardless of his lackluster contributions
On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote: Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum.
Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced?
As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it.
2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town.
That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes?
I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers.
The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right?
Also nice goalpost moving.
1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions.
2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1.
So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch???
From OP: "Town-Wincondition: Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town!"
Not necessarily all scum aligned?
Thanks for the support, but you haven't explicitly stated what your thoughts are on the Odinofpergo lynch are. Now that the tide is turning against you, this might be your only chance to do so. So what's the deal?
In short; I'm okay with either or yours, or Yellow's method (if followed fully)
From some of the responses so far; Yellow's method wouldn't work due to enough unwilling players, which when votes would be spread wide not tall would nullify any effect of the random voting. Yours I'm okay with. Obviously oop hasn't posted yet, so he'll probably be pretty salty, and it would require probably.. 14 of the players signing on to it?
My first post that the steve carell posting guy got upset with was saying im shit at day 1's with 9 players (newbie games). I'll stand by this, regardless of whether he thinks its scummy or not. For me, RNG is about as good as me picking a d1 lynch target.
The problem with Yellow's method is it requires everyone's participation to be truly random. Scum could just see where the rngs are landing, then either join or not join to push the votes onto or off of people. As long as some poeple don't participate or paritcipate selectively, it's not truly random.
Mine, on the other hand, has been 100% random. How many people participate affects is success rate, but not whether or not it is random. That's the advantage to my method. Even better, since this is a plurality lynch game, not a majority lynch game, we don't even need like 16 players. All we need is more than anyone else. The fact that a lynch needs votes is not a good argument, that's a general coutnerargument to like, the concept of a lynch, not to RNG lynching.
On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote: Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice
On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote: yes please do
##unvote ##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise)
On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote: if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care
despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns
Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS.
Oh wait, except me.
^^^ case in point
anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng
And if this game had no newbies in it, I'd take your statistics under advisement. Also in games like 7 town 2 scum (which it ypically use) you'd expect a 25% chance of getting scum anyways, 40% is pretty close.
On May 21 2014 07:47 Tehpoofter wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:39 marvellosity wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:38 Blazinghand wrote: So Marv, you gotta admit, these whole steveling/holyflare thing is pretty silly and not worth your attention. What do you think about the possibility of an rng lynch in this setup? Could be good, yes?
As you're probably well aware, I've never RNGed, never supported RNG, and never will. Draw your own conclusions :p
I know you disagree with me philosophically about the usefulness of RNG, I just figured maybe in a massively multifactional setup you might find it alluring. Well, next time then!
On May 21 2014 07:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:36 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 06:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: [quote] Vaccines cause autism tho
/s
seriously though, the story you're going with is "I realized you're right, and even if you're scum, your plan will probably work and we'll probably hit scum... but I'm not gonna follow your plan, because of ill-defind reasons"?
Actually yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with you. I play mafia for fun and us all picking an RNG then sitting back and seeing what happens doesn't seem fun to me. Plus I at least have enough faith in my own deduction and reasoning skills to think that I have just as good a chance of finding scum with analysis as RNG does.
Ok, so that's a reason. I will note though that historically, TL towns tend not to statistically significantly outperform RNG on D1. I'm not proposing RNG for no reason; I think lynching OdinofPergo is our best chance today. If nothing else, I guarantee that pulling this off will have two results
1) it will be legendary 2) it will cause a massive shitstorm because everyone hates RNG. this shitstorm will give us lots of things to base reads off of for D2
What reads do you hope to garner? Like based upon the lynch of Odin? Like who defends/pushes him? Why not just do that on someone who actually does something scummy. I think that I'd rather lose to being bad that win to RNG... I'm not playing a slot machine I'm playing mafia. RNG is bad and you should feel bad.
Why not someone else? Because RNG. RNG is the best and I feel good.
Obviously you don't really believe in the strategy. If someone thinks they're not better than RNG then they should just vote and leave the thread and come back in 48 hours and see how they did. But you clearly said you think you're a good player aka better than RNG so you don't even believe in an RNG lynch.
And I'm going to vote on who I think is scummy. Hopefully its right but even if its wrong then I will be happy that I had some influence over it and not just randomness Last time I'm commenting on this btw as its silly and unhelpful to town.
I'm the best player in TL Mafia and I believe in RNG lynch because it's objectively the best tool. The definition of being a good player is basically using RNG lynch, in a setup like this. You don't just vote randomly and leave the thread, because most don't do RNG lynch. You make sure everyone else follows you too. By your logic, if I have a scumread on someone, I should just vote them and leave the thread, my job is done.
Typical poof.
So lets say we had an RNG shot and a lynch. BUT you could only base one on RNG. Who do you find scummy in this thread so far that you would have to way in on for the non-RNG portion?
The answer is HF but notice how the both of them refuse to comment on this. Game solved.
Only two scum? And HF isn't playing like last game so your read is bad unless you show me differently, Like I asked previously what did he do this game that makes him lock mafia? Or is just cause he told you to play better as town? Like I think you shouldn't do what you did last game as town (I'm going to try not to too cause I mishammered like a boss) but does me saying you should play differently make you think I'm auto lock town for it?
On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote: Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice
On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote: yes please do
##unvote ##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise)
On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote: if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care
despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns
Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS.
Oh wait, except me.
^^^ case in point
anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng
And if this game had no newbies in it, I'd take your statistics under advisement. Also in games like 7 town 2 scum (which it ypically use) you'd expect a 25% chance of getting scum anyways, 40% is pretty close.
On May 21 2014 07:47 Tehpoofter wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:39 marvellosity wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:38 Blazinghand wrote: So Marv, you gotta admit, these whole steveling/holyflare thing is pretty silly and not worth your attention. What do you think about the possibility of an rng lynch in this setup? Could be good, yes?
As you're probably well aware, I've never RNGed, never supported RNG, and never will. Draw your own conclusions :p
I know you disagree with me philosophically about the usefulness of RNG, I just figured maybe in a massively multifactional setup you might find it alluring. Well, next time then!
On May 21 2014 07:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:36 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 06:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: [quote] Vaccines cause autism tho
/s
seriously though, the story you're going with is "I realized you're right, and even if you're scum, your plan will probably work and we'll probably hit scum... but I'm not gonna follow your plan, because of ill-defind reasons"?
Actually yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with you. I play mafia for fun and us all picking an RNG then sitting back and seeing what happens doesn't seem fun to me. Plus I at least have enough faith in my own deduction and reasoning skills to think that I have just as good a chance of finding scum with analysis as RNG does.
Ok, so that's a reason. I will note though that historically, TL towns tend not to statistically significantly outperform RNG on D1. I'm not proposing RNG for no reason; I think lynching OdinofPergo is our best chance today. If nothing else, I guarantee that pulling this off will have two results
1) it will be legendary 2) it will cause a massive shitstorm because everyone hates RNG. this shitstorm will give us lots of things to base reads off of for D2
What reads do you hope to garner? Like based upon the lynch of Odin? Like who defends/pushes him? Why not just do that on someone who actually does something scummy. I think that I'd rather lose to being bad that win to RNG... I'm not playing a slot machine I'm playing mafia. RNG is bad and you should feel bad.
Why not someone else? Because RNG. RNG is the best and I feel good.
Obviously you don't really believe in the strategy. If someone thinks they're not better than RNG then they should just vote and leave the thread and come back in 48 hours and see how they did. But you clearly said you think you're a good player aka better than RNG so you don't even believe in an RNG lynch.
And I'm going to vote on who I think is scummy. Hopefully its right but even if its wrong then I will be happy that I had some influence over it and not just randomness Last time I'm commenting on this btw as its silly and unhelpful to town.
I'm the best player in TL Mafia and I believe in RNG lynch because it's objectively the best tool. The definition of being a good player is basically using RNG lynch, in a setup like this. You don't just vote randomly and leave the thread, because most people don't do RNG lynch. You make sure everyone else follows you too. By your logic, if I have a scumread on someone, I should just vote them and leave the thread, my job is done.
Typical poof.
So lets say we had an RNG shot and a lynch. BUT you could only base one on RNG. Who do you find scummy in this thread so far that you would have to way in on for the non-RNG portion?
We don't have an RNg shot and a lynch though, we just have a lynch. Let's RNG it.
Dodging productive questions is dumb and scummy and you know it.
On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote: Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice
[quote] You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise)
On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote: if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care
despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns
Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS.
Oh wait, except me.
^^^ case in point
anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng
And if this game had no newbies in it, I'd take your statistics under advisement. Also in games like 7 town 2 scum (which it ypically use) you'd expect a 25% chance of getting scum anyways, 40% is pretty close.
On May 21 2014 07:47 Tehpoofter wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:39 marvellosity wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:38 Blazinghand wrote: So Marv, you gotta admit, these whole steveling/holyflare thing is pretty silly and not worth your attention. What do you think about the possibility of an rng lynch in this setup? Could be good, yes?
As you're probably well aware, I've never RNGed, never supported RNG, and never will. Draw your own conclusions :p
I know you disagree with me philosophically about the usefulness of RNG, I just figured maybe in a massively multifactional setup you might find it alluring. Well, next time then!
On May 21 2014 07:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:36 Blazinghand wrote: [quote]
seriously though, the story you're going with is "I realized you're right, and even if you're scum, your plan will probably work and we'll probably hit scum... but I'm not gonna follow your plan, because of ill-defind reasons"?
Actually yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with you. I play mafia for fun and us all picking an RNG then sitting back and seeing what happens doesn't seem fun to me. Plus I at least have enough faith in my own deduction and reasoning skills to think that I have just as good a chance of finding scum with analysis as RNG does.
Ok, so that's a reason. I will note though that historically, TL towns tend not to statistically significantly outperform RNG on D1. I'm not proposing RNG for no reason; I think lynching OdinofPergo is our best chance today. If nothing else, I guarantee that pulling this off will have two results
1) it will be legendary 2) it will cause a massive shitstorm because everyone hates RNG. this shitstorm will give us lots of things to base reads off of for D2
What reads do you hope to garner? Like based upon the lynch of Odin? Like who defends/pushes him? Why not just do that on someone who actually does something scummy. I think that I'd rather lose to being bad that win to RNG... I'm not playing a slot machine I'm playing mafia. RNG is bad and you should feel bad.
Why not someone else? Because RNG. RNG is the best and I feel good.
Obviously you don't really believe in the strategy. If someone thinks they're not better than RNG then they should just vote and leave the thread and come back in 48 hours and see how they did. But you clearly said you think you're a good player aka better than RNG so you don't even believe in an RNG lynch.
And I'm going to vote on who I think is scummy. Hopefully its right but even if its wrong then I will be happy that I had some influence over it and not just randomness Last time I'm commenting on this btw as its silly and unhelpful to town.
I'm the best player in TL Mafia and I believe in RNG lynch because it's objectively the best tool. The definition of being a good player is basically using RNG lynch, in a setup like this. You don't just vote randomly and leave the thread, because most people don't do RNG lynch. You make sure everyone else follows you too. By your logic, if I have a scumread on someone, I should just vote them and leave the thread, my job is done.
Typical poof.
So lets say we had an RNG shot and a lynch. BUT you could only base one on RNG. Who do you find scummy in this thread so far that you would have to way in on for the non-RNG portion?
We don't have an RNg shot and a lynch though, we just have a lynch. Let's RNG it.
Dodging productive questions is dumb and scummy and you know it.
##Vote: Blazinghand
Contribute or die.
You think a newbie like you has a snowball's chance in hell of pushing a lynch on a vet like me? How cute
BH is more likely town here. Putting himself in the spotlight of town would be stupid as mafia unless he has many partners or knows he can get multiple mislynches within the next couple of days if he has town support and it's worth his lynch.
But BH is pushing a losing cause here. He doesn't have much of support at all.
On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote: [quote] [quote]
despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns
Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS.
Oh wait, except me.
^^^ case in point
anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng
And if this game had no newbies in it, I'd take your statistics under advisement. Also in games like 7 town 2 scum (which it ypically use) you'd expect a 25% chance of getting scum anyways, 40% is pretty close.
On May 21 2014 07:47 Tehpoofter wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:39 marvellosity wrote: [quote] As you're probably well aware, I've never RNGed, never supported RNG, and never will. Draw your own conclusions :p
I know you disagree with me philosophically about the usefulness of RNG, I just figured maybe in a massively multifactional setup you might find it alluring. Well, next time then!
On May 21 2014 07:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: [quote] Actually yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with you. I play mafia for fun and us all picking an RNG then sitting back and seeing what happens doesn't seem fun to me. Plus I at least have enough faith in my own deduction and reasoning skills to think that I have just as good a chance of finding scum with analysis as RNG does.
Ok, so that's a reason. I will note though that historically, TL towns tend not to statistically significantly outperform RNG on D1. I'm not proposing RNG for no reason; I think lynching OdinofPergo is our best chance today. If nothing else, I guarantee that pulling this off will have two results
1) it will be legendary 2) it will cause a massive shitstorm because everyone hates RNG. this shitstorm will give us lots of things to base reads off of for D2
What reads do you hope to garner? Like based upon the lynch of Odin? Like who defends/pushes him? Why not just do that on someone who actually does something scummy. I think that I'd rather lose to being bad that win to RNG... I'm not playing a slot machine I'm playing mafia. RNG is bad and you should feel bad.
Why not someone else? Because RNG. RNG is the best and I feel good.
Obviously you don't really believe in the strategy. If someone thinks they're not better than RNG then they should just vote and leave the thread and come back in 48 hours and see how they did. But you clearly said you think you're a good player aka better than RNG so you don't even believe in an RNG lynch.
And I'm going to vote on who I think is scummy. Hopefully its right but even if its wrong then I will be happy that I had some influence over it and not just randomness Last time I'm commenting on this btw as its silly and unhelpful to town.
I'm the best player in TL Mafia and I believe in RNG lynch because it's objectively the best tool. The definition of being a good player is basically using RNG lynch, in a setup like this. You don't just vote randomly and leave the thread, because most people don't do RNG lynch. You make sure everyone else follows you too. By your logic, if I have a scumread on someone, I should just vote them and leave the thread, my job is done.
Typical poof.
So lets say we had an RNG shot and a lynch. BUT you could only base one on RNG. Who do you find scummy in this thread so far that you would have to way in on for the non-RNG portion?
We don't have an RNg shot and a lynch though, we just have a lynch. Let's RNG it.
Dodging productive questions is dumb and scummy and you know it.
##Vote: Blazinghand
Contribute or die.
You think a newbie like you has a snowball's chance in hell of pushing a lynch on a vet like me? How cute
BH I know you're not dying but from someone who started playing before you did, turn down the douche on the vet status.
bh, do we really need to have this retarded random lynch discussion every game??? I feel like i have heard it a million times and it's hella boring. You always brag about how great you are at the game, but i never see you hunting scum. You are always creating boring mechanics-drama around yourself.
On May 21 2014 06:22 Valenius wrote: 9 player day 1's normally confuse me. gg.
Sheep me sheeping marv. ezgame ezlife.
i thought you were hosting. wtf.
##vote: Koshi
Even though I am a divine being in this game. I ascended and joined the plebs. I don't have anything against plebs though, they are simple but amusing beings. I allow the smartest of them to call me Koshi. You can call me Master.
I might have meant descended. It is just hard for me to grasp going downwards.
It was such a nice post, I wasn't going to correct it for you.
On May 21 2014 06:49 Yell0w wrote: So about this whole RNG thing, aren't scum players more likely to vote for OdinofPergo if he isn't in their faction since they don't even need a reason to vote him? They can just claim they're doing it for RNG and get a lynch on someone who isn't aligned with them?
Wouldn't a better way be to each claim we are RNG voting, then use the RNG on the post in which we claimed it and then vote for whomever our own post said? So that there is no way to know if you're going to lynch someone of your own faction or not so it's riskier for scum to go by RNG? Maybe I'm completely wrong here.
I like that, I haven't thought it through - But I like it.
RNG V2
On May 21 2014 06:52 Valenius wrote: Actually, won't it cause the same theoretical situation, just with votes more spread?
On May 21 2014 07:33 Xatalos wrote: Why this change of heart?
Chalis (ハート Heart) is an antagonist in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. Together with Blados, she is one of the commanders of a secretive military nation named Tuaparang.
All three are bad guys taunting us in the thread. I rest my case.
On May 21 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote: Xatalos, I really have no idea, nor do I care, because I don't particularly strive to be consistent from game to game. Honestly the fact that you're beating away at this makes you look kinda better though, so maybe I'll unvote you if I'm feeling nice
On May 21 2014 07:32 Holyflare wrote: yes please do
##unvote ##vote steveling
You do realise, though, that Steve's semi-ridiculous behaviour makes it less likely he's mafia though, yes? (or traditional mafia. I'm just gonna say town for town and mafia for all the other factions until something tells me otherwise)
On May 21 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote: if you're gonna play like last game i will actually policy lynch you and i honestly don't care
despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns
Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS.
Oh wait, except me.
^^^ case in point
anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng
If you add in newbie games, we just lynch town/any claimed power roles. ezpz
6 posts, all of them a mixture of "+1'ing" other people and irrelevant comments. His filter reads a lot like someone who's artificially trying to insert himself in discussion.
##Vote: Valenius
i think he's town for this post:
On May 21 2014 07:50 Valenius wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:48 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:45 jampidampi wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:33 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 06:40 jampidampi wrote:
On May 21 2014 06:32 Blazinghand wrote: Look, I know you guys all hate RNG lynch but with 4 factions there's gonna be way more scum than usual, right? This means RNG has a much higher chance than usual of hitting scum. This is possibly the best time EVER for using RNg. Everyone lynch OdinofPergo, because statistically speaking he is scum.
Why does more factions = more scum? Wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio of scum/all players balanced?
As a member of the balance team, I can assure you that a multifactional game supports more scum than a non-multifactional game. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that, say, in a 2-scum-faction game, half of the scum will push on each other for reasons unrelated to bussing, because they can't distinguish between "scum on the other scum team" and "town". They'll even shoot into each other sometimes. Town loses the ability to make some associative tells, but the amount of crosstalk from scum accidentally pushing or shooting each other makes up for it.
2+2 scum with each group having 1 kp will never be as effective as 4 scum with 2 kp working together at killing town.
That being said, you never mentioned any real objection to the concept of RNG, you just questioned my estimate of scum in this game. I can only assume you didn't object to actual RNG because you think it would be fine if more factions = more scum. So, now that I've shown that more factions = more scum, you'll vote odin, yes?
I would need some kind of hard evindence that there are multiple scum factions in this game to RNG lynch, since those additional factions could be third parties and that wouldn't necessarily increase the scum numbers.
The definition of factions pretty much means they have to be scum aligned. Otherwise we'd just call them "blues". Even if they were like 3p factions or whatever, we'd still want them dead, right?
Also nice goalpost moving.
1. "do more factions = more scum? wouldn't scum numbers stay the same to keep the ratio... balanced?" as a question implies that you, like me, expected all or most of the factions to be scum factions.
2. but then "additional factions could be third parties..." later on is what you say after I show solve #1.
So, what's the deal? Why the resistance on the odinofpergo lynch???
From OP: "Town-Wincondition: Eliminate all Factions, which endanger town!"
Not necessarily all scum aligned?
Are you trolling me or are you serious? Pulling publicly-available information from the OP does not make someone town.
Also, why do you have your vote on the most obvious townie in the thread?
because you aren't reading what i've stated twice and no it's absolutely not trolling, who is more likely to pull someone from the op indicating that some factions might not be scum aligned? mafia, town or a maybe town aligned 3p factioner? to me it looks more like that latter regardless of his lackluster contributions
I don't think so at all. For example, it would make perfect sense in this game for a scum-aligned faction member to know that information in the OP, since they too are aware of the other factions in this game.
In general, I don't think speculating on what factions know what sort of information is wise in a closed-themed setup.
On May 21 2014 07:43 Holyflare wrote: [quote] [quote]
despite me being scum in the game he was talking about we literally only won because he was doing what he was doing as town and was an easy mislynch so i'm just going to get rid of him until he learns
Yes you literally only won because of my bad play as town right? Not because NO ONE, LITERALLY NO ONE VOTED FOR A SCUM IN ALL 3 DAYS.
Oh wait, except me.
^^^ case in point
anyway bh if you take out newbie games towns recently have a 40%+ chance of finding mafia day 1 by lynching and so it's obv far better not to rng
And if this game had no newbies in it, I'd take your statistics under advisement. Also in games like 7 town 2 scum (which it ypically use) you'd expect a 25% chance of getting scum anyways, 40% is pretty close.
On May 21 2014 07:47 Tehpoofter wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 21 2014 07:39 marvellosity wrote: [quote] As you're probably well aware, I've never RNGed, never supported RNG, and never will. Draw your own conclusions :p
I know you disagree with me philosophically about the usefulness of RNG, I just figured maybe in a massively multifactional setup you might find it alluring. Well, next time then!
On May 21 2014 07:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: [quote] Actually yeah, I'm not even gonna argue with you. I play mafia for fun and us all picking an RNG then sitting back and seeing what happens doesn't seem fun to me. Plus I at least have enough faith in my own deduction and reasoning skills to think that I have just as good a chance of finding scum with analysis as RNG does.
Ok, so that's a reason. I will note though that historically, TL towns tend not to statistically significantly outperform RNG on D1. I'm not proposing RNG for no reason; I think lynching OdinofPergo is our best chance today. If nothing else, I guarantee that pulling this off will have two results
1) it will be legendary 2) it will cause a massive shitstorm because everyone hates RNG. this shitstorm will give us lots of things to base reads off of for D2
What reads do you hope to garner? Like based upon the lynch of Odin? Like who defends/pushes him? Why not just do that on someone who actually does something scummy. I think that I'd rather lose to being bad that win to RNG... I'm not playing a slot machine I'm playing mafia. RNG is bad and you should feel bad.
Why not someone else? Because RNG. RNG is the best and I feel good.
Obviously you don't really believe in the strategy. If someone thinks they're not better than RNG then they should just vote and leave the thread and come back in 48 hours and see how they did. But you clearly said you think you're a good player aka better than RNG so you don't even believe in an RNG lynch.
And I'm going to vote on who I think is scummy. Hopefully its right but even if its wrong then I will be happy that I had some influence over it and not just randomness Last time I'm commenting on this btw as its silly and unhelpful to town.
I'm the best player in TL Mafia and I believe in RNG lynch because it's objectively the best tool. The definition of being a good player is basically using RNG lynch, in a setup like this. You don't just vote randomly and leave the thread, because most people don't do RNG lynch. You make sure everyone else follows you too. By your logic, if I have a scumread on someone, I should just vote them and leave the thread, my job is done.
Typical poof.
So lets say we had an RNG shot and a lynch. BUT you could only base one on RNG. Who do you find scummy in this thread so far that you would have to way in on for the non-RNG portion?
We don't have an RNg shot and a lynch though, we just have a lynch. Let's RNG it.
Dodging productive questions is dumb and scummy and you know it.
##Vote: Blazinghand
Contribute or die.
You think a newbie like you has a snowball's chance in hell of pushing a lynch on a vet like me? How cute
So you're someone who has played a lot of games yes? You claim to be good. You claim to be a vet. So help a poor helpless little newbie like myself who literally can't even spell mafai out and tell me who is scum and who I should vote for and why. Because I'm silly and like to use reason and logic for my reads. A trait no doubt I will be strip of once I garner your "Veteran" status.
I've probably played more mafia games than you. I want you to contribute and if you don't then you are useless to me and playing against my (town's) win condition.
On May 21 2014 08:26 27ninjabunnies wrote: What happened to completely ignoring BH?
BH is more likely town here. Putting himself in the spotlight of town would be stupid as mafia unless he has many partners or knows he can get multiple mislynches within the next couple of days if he has town support and it's worth his lynch.
But BH is pushing a losing cause here. He doesn't have much of support at all.
This seems like very surface level thinking to me. Why wouldn't scum want to do what they do every game? Why don't scum want to put themselves in the spotlight? Activity looks townie.
EPT
Last time I'm commenting on this btw as its silly and unhelpful to town. ![[image loading]](http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120309173425/goldensun/images/thumb/b/ba/GSHeart.jpg/240px-GSHeart.jpg)
