EPTA Quiet Game of Mini Mafia
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raynpelikoneet
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On January 07 2014 12:22 WaveofShadow wrote: This could be one of those things I feel like I remember you did in a recent scumgame but I'm not really sure why I think that. Essentially boils down to the 'coaching' thing---really easy to do as scum to make yourself look good. I think you may have done it in PYP though as well so I dunno. Just didn't like the post. Carry on. I am pointing out why gumshoe's line of thinking is wrong. It does not help anyone that he bases his reads on false premises. I do that as town too. | ||
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On January 07 2014 15:27 yamato77 wrote: You're too cavalier this early in the game. On January 07 2014 15:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure that's kind of the definition of my town play. Elaborate please. | ||
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So it's a null-tell so why is it "worrying"? | ||
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wtf is that shit logic? | ||
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On January 07 2014 15:56 yamato77 wrote: I said I agree that I should know your alignment better by now and pointed out posts where I don't really understand your reasoning. It's worrying, not a declaration of a certain read. I have a town read on gumshoe, i don't see why saying that makes me more likely to be scum. I asked WoS about his "emotionless opening" because last time i played with him when he was town he raged because he wanted to be mafia, and i wanted to know what's his reasoning for opening the game differently this time. By saying what i did about thrawn i wanted to make him uncomfortable in case he is scum, and i also promised to have a clear read on him later on on D1 which should help you guys figure out my alignment. So what's wrong with those things? | ||
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It is meaningful to me because you are saying some of my posts worry you and therefore you don't have a town read on me. You are not straight out calling me mafia, but you imply so. When i ask you to clarify you say i posted useless shit and that i am too cavalier. When i ask you how does that make me any alignment you don't have an answer. When i clarify my posts that bothered you you call the conversation meaningless. What exactly were you trying to achieve with your first post? Because to me it looks like there was no purpose as you think the discussion is meaningless as you just said. Why are you making useless posts? | ||
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This post: On January 07 2014 12:12 WaveofShadow wrote: I think I'm with you on gumshoe being town btw---the accusation of CC trying to pit him and Artanis against each other seems like a really silly point to force as scum. On January 07 2014 12:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Also the bolded part in this post come off as incredibly townie to me. This could be one of those things I feel like I remember you did in a recent scumgame but I'm not really sure why I think that. Essentially boils down to the 'coaching' thing---really easy to do as scum to make yourself look good. I think you may have done it in PYP though as well so I dunno. Just didn't like the post. Carry on. | ||
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There are couple of things i like about WoS. This post: On January 07 2014 12:12 WaveofShadow wrote: I think I'm with you on gumshoe being town btw---the accusation of CC trying to pit him and Artanis against each other seems like a really silly point to force as scum. Also the bolded part in this post come off as incredibly townie to me. On January 07 2014 12:22 WaveofShadow wrote: This could be one of those things I feel like I remember you did in a recent scumgame but I'm not really sure why I think that. Essentially boils down to the 'coaching' thing---really easy to do as scum to make yourself look good. I think you may have done it in PYP though as well so I dunno. Just didn't like the post. Carry on. [/QUOTE] | ||
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CC uses like ~15 posts in interacting with Artanis and after that gives a read on gumshoe and even a null read on WoS who has posted once, maybe twice. What was the point of discussing shit with Artanis as CC didn't even try to form a read on him. Artanis did the same with gumshoe. Fuckton of interaction that ends up with calling gumshoe scummy but then again maybe not. | ||
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Go! | ||
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On January 07 2014 17:59 thrawn2112 wrote: i was hoping that you would tell me why you're scum because i'm too lazy to make the case myself What was your read on me before my answer and why did it change? | ||
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On January 07 2014 10:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: What I should say is, I wouldn't post something like that as mafia so that makes me lean town on him. I take it you're leaning scum on Gumshoe atm because you posted that gumshoe was talking about something not being alignment indicative and that he gains scumpoints. Gumshoe you are once again the topic of day 1 discussion! Congrats! I can only hope that this leads to good things this time around :D It ends in a disagreement and neither of those guys bring that up any more and neither of them have a read on each other. | ||
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On January 07 2014 18:33 thrawn2112 wrote: You're pushing the limit of how much thought you can assume I put into my earlier posts. I mean you said "and there goes my only read" after i gave you an answer to your question. I assume you had some sort of a read on me and i would like to know what that was. | ||
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On January 07 2014 14:17 iamperfection wrote: before i go to bed one thing im confident on is that gumshoe is town. He has steeped into the spotlight and has stated his reasoning confidently and strongly and has provided some actual content. Some of his content is suspect like me prodding yamato is scummy lolololololol but regardless i think this is town and his paly reminds me of his early pm play in got where he stated his reasoning with the same confidence. So hopefully he doesn't go and fuck it up like he did in that game. 1 down Gumshoe Town 11 to go see you all tomorrow iamperfection how is this different than what gumshoe does in his scumgames? If this is a meta-read you should probably elaborate on that too because it's kinda.. the point of a meta-read, what someone does differently as town/scum. If this is not a meta-read why are you faking it as one? | ||
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Let's lynch yamato, bugs and JAT and call it a gg? | ||
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 He didn't say "hi" to the thread. That's like a scumclaim. j/k, i dunno about JAT. Actually no, i think yamato is town. There is some sort of a process going on in his head on his read on me. When he is scum there is no process, he just posts some stuff and tryhard reads or does not post anything. Dunno about bugs either, have never played with him. I have some super secret scumreads but i am waiting for all people to post. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439654¤tpage=12#236 ..onwards in his filter. There is something happening, i just dunno what that something is, but i don't really care, because it's enough for me. | ||
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He is doing stuff his own way, which is not what he does as mafia. | ||
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On January 07 2014 18:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I mean you said "and there goes my only read" after i gave you an answer to your question. I assume you had some sort of a read on me and i would like to know what that was. Seeing your last post you're gonna get lynched if you do not explain this. | ||
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##Vote: thrawn | ||
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He does something that is not usually considered as alignemnt indicative. When someone looke beyond what he said and thinks why he did that and asks for reasoning behind his actions he refuses to contribute to them. | ||
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On January 07 2014 17:03 thrawn2112 wrote: rayn if i told you i have a valid reason to believe you're scum, what do you think it is? On January 07 2014 17:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have no idea. On January 07 2014 17:11 thrawn2112 wrote: annnnnd now have 0 reads On January 07 2014 17:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Could you elaborate more on what was that all about? On January 07 2014 17:59 thrawn2112 wrote: i was hoping that you would tell me why you're scum because i'm too lazy to make the case myself What does this mean? thrawn must have had a some kind of a read on me. The bolded quote is proof of that. If he claims otherwise he is lying and there is no reason to lie about that as town. After that i ask thrawn what was his read on me and why i became null after his answer. He refused to answer, he still refuses to answer. There is no reason to refuse to answer unless he has no answers. He does have an answer (of his own thought process) if he is town. Therefore he is scum, it's the only possibility. | ||
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On January 08 2014 12:46 thrawn2112 wrote: Rayn you are trying to grill me over a "thought process" I can't even remember having nor was I probably aware of it at the time. This can't possibly be true because i asked you about it right after. You did not answer me, instead you went on discussing Artanis. | ||
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On January 08 2014 12:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's up thrawn: Seeing your last post you're gonna get lynched if you do not explain this. Read this, i asked you about your thought process right after the conversation. | ||
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Like, as town, you do stuff that helps you figuring out other people's alignments. Therefore you don't ask questions that can have null-answers, or at least questions where the answer is expected to be null by default. As scum, you want to look like you are doing that but you actually are not because you don't want to "confirm" townies to you or other townies as in the end that gives yourself away. To me that looks like you were doing stuff that looks like you were doing stuff but that didn't have any intention behind it, which makes it far more likely to come from mafia. | ||
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On January 08 2014 13:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Rayn why should we vote thrawn over yamato? I dunno if you are reading closely but i think i have explained why i think yamato is town. | ||
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On January 08 2014 13:10 WaveofShadow wrote: That was yesterday, wasn't it? Aside from the tryhard reads part I don't really see anything that doesn't fit with your idea of a scum yamato. Hell even then, can you outline exactly what sort of 'process' yamato has going on? I don't see it. iamp asked me about that earlier and i answered him already. I can't explain it better than i did to him because i don't know exactly what yamato is doing. | ||
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Well then you should not post when you are under influence. I stopped posting drunk when i realized that's a fucking terrible idea. yamato even asked you to stop posting last night when you told us you are stoned. WoS: I try to elaborate as well as i can onto yamato. What yamato does as mafia is two things. He does not play for an all game plan. He plays for (1) survival, usually lurks, and (2) fuels arguments between townies. 1 and 2 are important, usually lurking is something that's not so important as he is able to change that if he wants to. 1) This can be seen in GoT, where i played scum with him. We had a game plan from the beginning but yamato's mindset was pretty much "i won't get lynched on D1". I don't remember he was doing much else than trying to survive D2. 2) This can be seen from 4 Persona, where yamato's pure purpose was to fuel me vs you argument until it ended up in a townie lynch. After that he discredited me for all D2, but when i basically solved the game on N2 he had no other option than to night kill me, even though i lynched a cop on D1 and had a red check on me. That's how "confident" yamato feels his scumplay is. What he has done in this game is neither of those things. | ||
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Instead of making crappy arguments could you comment on the case? | ||
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If you want to call them scum you need to debunk my arguments on them. | ||
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On January 08 2014 13:29 WaveofShadow wrote: Would you not consider his last couple of posts 'confident' in him not getting lynched today? I dunno Rayn it's like I said to WBG, I am not particularly good at meta, and I very rarely see it getting used well so I can't really take reads solely based on meta into account. I see what yamato has done in this game, and it's scummy. It's not scummy, it's "not caring". That's not necessarily scummy, especially for yamato who has been not caring as town many times at the start of the game. | ||
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If he fails to do so, or does scummy stuff when he starts playing, then we can revisit Cora's argument about yamato<->me and re-think "hmm.. maybe yamato could do that as mafia, what was he in fact doing there?". But right now it's not scummy, maybe you can consider it null, but i'd lean town on him for what he has done and what he usually does as scum. | ||
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If you don't, you deserve to get lynched because you (incorrectly) accuse of WBG not playing the game and then you yourself refuse to play the game. | ||
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##Vote: Corazon | ||
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On January 08 2014 13:38 Corazon wrote: All I saw was thrawn say he wanted you lynched, and then you voted him and made the case afterwards. That means that you were only attacking him because he attacked you. If you think this is the case you have clearly put no thought on my posts / thought process about thrawn. | ||
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On January 08 2014 13:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Corazon show me thrawn's contributions to scumhunting. You have two votes on you, that does not mean there is a "gun on your throat". There is ~24h left on D1. Can you just back up your statement and show thrawn's contributions to scumhunting. | ||
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If you refuse to answer me, you are doing the same thing you accuse WBG of being scum for, refusing to play the game. It's that simple, by your definition that makes you mafia. | ||
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On January 08 2014 13:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Corazon show me thrawn's contributions to scumhunting. This is the last time i ask about this. | ||
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On January 08 2014 13:57 wherebugsgo wrote: IIRC yamato did a similar thing the last game I played with him, Smurf Mini. Although I don't know if it was because he was scum or busy or what (I assume a combination of both) but he lurked to the point where he got replaced, then his replacement won the game for him and his team basically. (not like the replacement really did anything either, though). On day 1 we almost lynched him, but switched and lynched someone else who happened to also flip scum. We need to consolidate on yamato as long as he continues to be worthless. He's not completely useless as town and it's incredibly scummy for him to come back only when pressured simply to post one line and leave again. As for Cora, if he routinely plays like this (something that I will try to confirm for myself later, probably early tomorrow when I wake up) then he's probably not scum since there are ways one can justify his play from a town perspective. It's hard, but doable. However he's still a reasonable alternate choice if something drastic changes with regards to yamato. I don't think this is a right way to go, because yamato already promised to contribute. When someone does that you leave them alone to make them feel comfortable (in case they are scum) and focus on other people. If yamato does not contribute, he claims scum and we can vote him at the end of the day. If we vote for yamato now, regardless of his alignment, noone else is pressured and while townies should not stop contributing even when there is a clear thread sentiment that's unfortunately not the general line of thinking. Placing votes on yamato will kill the discussion to some extent, people are more likely to contribute if they are under pressure. yamato was already under pressure and promised to contribute, that pressure has achieved what it's purpose was. | ||
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On January 08 2014 13:25 Corazon wrote: Thrawn - lynching Rayn D1 is a bad idea. If Rayn is town, he is going to be a great asset to us going forward. He should be a policy lynch if he lasts longer than N2. ? | ||
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On January 08 2014 14:12 wherebugsgo wrote: Can you give me an example of where the bolded has ever worked? There have been tons of times where town has backed off upon the first hint of resistance. Yamato did something incredibly scummy-he reentered the thread and promptly disappeared. If he was town he'd be here arguing for his innocence and providing us with proper reads. It's much easier to read someone when they are actively present rather than afk. As at the very least a decent player yamato knows that. I've seen him play town myself. If he's not making sense or contributing to town he needs to die, and taking our votes off and moving them just because he gave us a promise is not a good way to ensure that we'll actually have the ability to kill him when the lynch deadline comes around. Okay so what do you expect the town gains if we all put our votes on yamato now? He has done what he has done, that does not change. some people find it scummy some people don't. That does not change regardless of how many votes are on him. However putting votes on him does not allow the town to pressure other people. I don't care if this has worked or not worked in other games because i can tell you for sure i will not forget arguments and people's promises and i sure as hell will confromt yamato when he comes back to the thread. Why this is incredibly scummy thinking is because of there are at least you and iamp in the game who are generally considered better players than me. Also yamato, Artanis, WoS, thrawn etc.. *Notice this is not supposed to be an insult to anyone and does not represent my thoughts because i obviously think i am the best mafia on the planet*. If i am generally not considered to be in top 2 of players in this game stating that i should be policy lynched on D3 if i am alive is a way of saying "i refuse to give my opinions on rayn and i will already set up an arbitary read on him regardless of what he does - a read that becomes "valid" at some point of the game". | ||
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TL Mafia LXII Noir where Cephiro was lynched because of this. Not on D2 when he was supposed to because someone fakeclaimed a doctor over the real doctor but the next day. Without the claim it would have happened, especially if i was not mafia and town-..- | ||
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Is there a reason you guys did not comment on my case on thrawn at all? While i changed my vote that does not mean the case becomes invalid. | ||
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Another question to you; Why don't you jsut go to my filter and check it? Why am i doing your work for you? | ||
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He attacked Cora (who is also one of your top scumreads) with the best argument the thread had seen at that time. | ||
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On January 07 2014 16:09 mkfuba07 wrote: My argument is the opposite. One would assume that cora actually perceived the shitflinging, or at least believes that we could interpret what he's said as shitflinging, but that's not at all a part of my opinion of him. My opinion involves him validating his accusation by comparing iamp's actions to a different scum player in a different game. Saying he's shitflinging and following it up by saying he seems scummy is fine. Saying it's scummy because this other scum did it in another game gives me the impression he finds his own argument weak. Like this is literally one of the towniest thought processes there are in thread and incredibly hard to fake as scum, especially considering we are talking about fuba here, who's not played scum much (maybe once or twice?). | ||
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On January 08 2014 14:50 WaveofShadow wrote: As for yours his explanation is a little convoluted but where you say it's only possible for scum to do what he did, I say it is entirely possible for town to lose thought processes/lie/have shitty explanations for things as well. If anything I'd be more inclined to know from thrawn why he felt the need to continually try to bait reactions in the first place? Okay so do you think it's reasonable to lose your train of thought in 14 minutes as thrawn is suggesting happened? Also do you buy his explanation of being too stoned and how does it make sense because before the argument yamato politely asked thrawn to not post if he does not have a clear head? | ||
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On January 08 2014 14:52 WaveofShadow wrote: Umm...I'm going to say yes with the caveats that a) I'm still too lazy to go back and check Les so if I'm wrong I willingly risk the tunnel-Rayn b) My sole mafia game is probably not a good indication of meta. But you just said you have never done so. I believe you that you have not done so in your town games as lying about it as mafia does not make sense if you have in fact done so as town. If you are however mafia and have done that as mafia before you might intentionally or sub-consiously repeat the behavior. | ||
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On January 08 2014 14:56 WaveofShadow wrote: Well the second sentence is meh because if one doesn't have a clear head in the first place they're bound not to follow instructions like that  As for the first one I suppose you have a point...? But then you're suggesting I guess that his original entire excuse and way to defend himself was 'guise I'm too high to play mafia' which seems like a terrible thing to do as scum. People have been lynched for way less. And i have only been lynched as mafia because i was too drunk. | ||
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On January 08 2014 15:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: And i have only been lynched as mafia because i was too drunk. Actually this is not true, i forgot the ##'s game where i legitmately fucked up and got caught. | ||
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I read your D1 in Les. | ||
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On January 08 2014 15:07 WaveofShadow wrote: I gambled and won! But wait, for bonus points, did I not do that in this game? No you didn't, which is more scummy than what you did in Les. Anyways meta does not "prove" you are scum because of it, it does not prove you are town either. | ||
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On January 08 2014 15:12 WaveofShadow wrote: Wat. How exactly am I lazy aside from asking you to link a case for me? I don't think I've been lazy in the slightest. And I'm not following where the 'or scum' comes from either. Because town players are interested in figuring out stuff and commenting on most interesting topics there are in the thread. Regardless of your alignment you either think my case is not good or for some other reason you did not want to comment on it. When i specifically asked you to comment on it you didn't even remember the case and wanted me to point out where the case was. That suggests to me you are not reading the thread closely (as you did not remember the case at all) which means you are lazy, or that you for some reason didn't want to either +1 my case or tell me you think the case is bad or does not make thrawn mafia. If it is "for some reason" i can't think of a townie reason and if you were not lazy i think you are scum. | ||
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On January 08 2014 15:34 WaveofShadow wrote: Your bias because you noticed I didn't specifically comment on your case or remember it doesn't make me scum OR lazy. How do I have to point that out to you? Like wtf is this? Just because I don't comment or agree with you I immediately must be working against you? Lemme try to be as clear as possible as i think you have misuderstood something. Here's what happened. I made a case on thrawn. you did not comment on it in any way. That's not necessarily alignment indicative, but i wanted to know what you thought about the case because it helps me in getting a better read on you and to some extent on thrawn by proxy, as i could be making a bad case, but in any way i think my case is important because otherwise i would not have made it. I am expecting one of three different answers: 1) "I think your case is good, i agree with it." In this case you are probably scum because if you thought the case was good then why did i need to prod you into answering it in the first place? 2) "I think your case is not good, i disagree with it because of XYZ." In this case i consider if your reasons for debunking my case are good enough which makes you town, or if they are bullshit in which case you are scum. 3) "What case?" In this case you are clearly not reading the thread properly because by default, if you have read the thread, you would remember i have made a case on thrawn. This could be because you are lazy and just didn't read the thread or you are mafia and for some reason are avoiding to comment on the case. The answer you gave me was (3). Okay, next thing i want to know is if you are lazy or scum. I point out where the case is and ask you to comment on it. Then we go back to (1) or (2), with same outcomes, but with a difference that if you give answer (1) you are definitely scum because townies never forget there was a good case in thread and not comment on it. If you give answer (2) i don't know if you are scum or town, because i can't be sure if you were just lazy or if you are lying about not reading properly and just did not want to comment on it. So, my conclusion is, that you were lazy or that you are bullshitting and you are mafia. It's impossible to tell which one is true. However, i told you to not be lazy any more if you are town because that's not how townies should play, so if you are lazy in the future i am inclined to think you are not playing towards town's win condition and are scum. If you do scummy stuff in the future this argument between us should be revisited and re-examined and judged amongst other things you have done in this game. Right now it is a null tell. That's my thought process. Hope you understand. | ||
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On January 08 2014 13:29 WaveofShadow wrote: Would you not consider his last couple of posts 'confident' in him not getting lynched today? I dunno Rayn it's like I said to WBG, I am not particularly good at meta, and I very rarely see it getting used well so I can't really take reads solely based on meta into account. I see what yamato has done in this game, and it's scummy. I think atm this is the only post/argument that could make WoS scum. He does not explain how what yamato has done in this game is scummy. Because yamato hasn't done anything besides argued with me up to this point. So where the scumread is based on? Lurker lynch? No, because WoS said yamato is scummy. Meta? No, because WoS said he's not good at meta so he does not use it. So exactly why is what yamato has done up to this point of the game scummy? I agree with your read on iamp to some extent. Not confident enough to say he is scum but want to see more from him - especially now that you started contributing. | ||
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On January 08 2014 16:54 yamato77 wrote: I don't understand why he switched to WoS, nor do I understand why he switched off. Nor does he seem interested in trying to figure out many people's alignments in this game. Much of his filter, like Cora's, is comprised of "lynch yamato because he's lurking" which is just not good justification. This, atm it seems to me as well iamp is trying to find a lynch, not figuring out alignments. | ||
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On January 08 2014 17:01 yamato77 wrote: All this said, I'm pretty sure I'm wrong about at least one read, because I really don't think all three of these players are mafia together. If I had to pick, I feel least confident about Cora because, well, he is really whiney this game and his town play isn't exactly a gold standard of excellence. The problem with Corazon is he uses arguments like "WBG is mafia because he refuses to play the game". First of all if he did read between the lines what WBG said there was: "I am pressuring yamato to contribute. This is also a message to every player in this game i want everyone to contribute. If you don't, you are scum, because there is no reason for a townie to talk and interact with people. My vote however does not mean i won't do shit, which i prove to you here Corazon, by asking you about your reads and stuff". Somehow Corazon twists this into "I have done much more than you so don't tell me i have not done shit - you are scum because you haven't done shit and you are not trying to play the game". Okay, i could see that coming from town Corazon, he could think so. But when i make a case on thrawn, he does not apparently even read the case (or if he does - he misrepresents it totally - which makes him scum). He calls the case OMGUS and the argument between me and thrawn a "shitstorm which will ruin the town". This is totally not the case. He shuts down a case based on incorrect things and stupid assumptions and refuses to contribute towards the case in itself. When asked to do so multiple times he still refuses to do so, but instead he calls thrawn town for other reasons (hint: that's an entirely incorrect way to play mafia and fucking scummy). Not only that, when i ask for his reasons for calling thrawn town (what Corazon sees as thrawn's contributions to scumhunting) he again refuses to answer and instead says he won't answer because of the pressure that's on him. Again, fucking scummy. TLDR; He (incorrectly) calls WBG mafia for not playing the game when in fact it's him who is not playing the game. He repeatedly refuses to explain his logic (which should be very easy thing to do for a town player) - something that is a foundation in proving your own towniness and therefore reducing the suspect pool. In addition to that he shuts down cases with no reasoning which equals shutting down the discussion which equals not playing the game, which is a scumtell by his own definition. And that's my case on him. | ||
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On January 08 2014 17:27 mkfuba07 wrote: Unexpected flu is replacing all of my free time with "try to catch up on sleep" time. Symptoms appear to be gone as of now, though, so I'm hoping my activity will pick up as we move into N1. Only thing I have to say at the moment is that I'm still up for a Cora lynch. I assume that my posts about him make me one of the people "taking all of his posts and twisting them into lies," but he hasn't responded to what I've said in any way, even though numerous people have agreed at various times throughout the day that it's a valid point. Wish I could participate more in discussion, but I've got about 6 hours before I have to be up again for class, and I'd like to fill it with as much sleep as possible. I should be free for a few hours leading up to the deadline. tbh at the time you made the comment about Corazon i was looking forward to his answer because the argument in itself does not make Corazon mafia and is not even necessarily scummy (depending on his answer). Instead it tells more about your alignment as you were clearly trying to figure out the game and thinking in a townie way. Could you comment on things that have happened in the last pages? | ||
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fuba, bugs, gumshoe town - agree/disagree? What do you think of thrawn? | ||
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On January 08 2014 17:37 yamato77 wrote: Agree mostly on town reads. Gumshoe is the weakest though, he hasn't been around much since the start. Thrawn is an enigma. He's here, but not posting much. I don't think he's mafia but it's hard to find concrete reasons to call him town. The one thing i find out scummy about thrawn is what i said in my case. It's the exact same thing he did in the last game, said stuff that he hadn't thought through (at least it seemed so). Like i can understand him being stoned and not remembering what he did the day before but i am not sure if i buy him losing his train of thought in 14 minutes (yes, it was 14 minutes between the argument and his refusal to answering me and moving on to other things). Imo the point of him being "not at his best" is not a valid defense because regardless of your mindset you do think of stuff, let it be a stupid way or a good way. Also he used a same way of "discrediting the argument" he did in his last scum game. Hope you get what i am trying to say. Being not in a "right mindset to play mafia" does not mean "i did not have a thought process at all" because it's impossible to not have a thought process regardless of or your alignment. | ||
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On January 08 2014 17:40 yamato77 wrote: JAT seemed like the unfortunate target of WBG's rage. Don't find him particularly suspicious. CC/Artanis are question marks. Interaction is odd, but I don't know what to make of it. Haven't paid much attention to it. Kush - kush. I think you are town, Rayn. Am I forgetting anyone? I think we are on the same wavelength. Replace rayn with yamato. | ||
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Hope you get what i am trying to say. Being not in a "right mindset to play mafia" does not mean "i did not have a thought process at all" because it's impossible to not have a thought process regardless of or your alignment or condition. | ||
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Which of the names does not belong here and which one is the strongest? | ||
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Anyways the case on CC is good and if he does not answer it reasonably he's a candidate for being lynched today. | ||
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On January 08 2014 18:12 thrawn2112 wrote: The points you brought up about WoS are outweighed by the effort put into the rest of his filter. I'm not sure what the case against iamp is other than him being lazy and not explaining his reasons. That doesn't make me think iamp's scum at all because town iamp likes his short and lazy posts. But in this game, the case is that he's slightly less coherent? I don't see a big enough distinction between his play in this game and in his past town games to accept this read. This is something i really dislike. Even the worst scumplayer in the world does not slip in every post and has townie posts. You can't just sweep scummy stuff under the rug and say "but he has done townie things too". This is also not how you usually operate, so care to explain why you are doing this here? | ||
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I actually agree with him to some extent, especially because of your actions regarding voting / unvoting WoS. | ||
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On January 08 2014 23:26 iamperfection wrote: bs i stated my reasons for voting wos when i did i reacted to what i saw. That is not scummy in the slightest. Your vote on WoS was reasonable because i thought the same thing you and kush did when you reacted to his post. The thing i find scummy is when WoS interacted with people after that you retracted from the vote back to yamato for reasons that were "well at least WoS is here talking but yamato is not". If you really thought WoS is scummy why didn't you keep your vote on him and pressure him about his scummy post(s)? This is exactly what i was trying to say to WBG, you did the exact thing i was worried about people voting for yamato when he earlier on promised to contribute when he had more time. To me that seems like you did not even care about WoS' alignment, because why would you not keep your vote on him if you think he did something scummy? Why did you not want to hear more from him? If you give him a "free pass" by rectracting your pressure/vote what does that achieve? | ||
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On January 08 2014 16:59 yamato77 wrote: That's a good point against WoS, and many just reinforces my claim that he's mafia having a really hard time talking his way on top my wagon without looking super suspicious doing it. I do want to see more from iamp, but I'm predicting a future where he comes in and continues to call me mafia, only now it's because of my attack on him. Repeat this for Corazon, neither player does anything else today but try to get me lynched. I may like WoS as a lynch more now that you bring up that point. yamato why are you indeed dropping your read on iamp, you said a while ago you predict that's what scum!iamp would do and that's exactly what he did. | ||
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##Vote: yamato77 Yeah the quote i brought up is really terrible. | ||
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On January 08 2014 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is something i really dislike. Even the worst scumplayer in the world does not slip in every post and has townie posts. You can't just sweep scummy stuff under the rug and say "but he has done townie things too". This is also not how you usually operate, so care to explain why you are doing this here? | ||
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I also know for a fact hat's not how thrawn usually thinks, in fact i have never seen such a bad argument for answering a case from him. | ||
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I don't understand what you do not understand. | ||
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On January 09 2014 00:06 wherebugsgo wrote: Rayn, despite being focused on thrawn you stated you'd rather lynch CC and Cora before WoS (so I'm assuming Yamato comes first) Why was thrawn not in there? Because i don't think thrawn is as scummy as WoS, or pretty much falls into the same "wtf category" atm. I am asking your opinions about thrawn because you have given your opinions on WoS already. I think the CC case is pretty clear and that's Artanis' case, i want him to push it. | ||
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On January 09 2014 00:08 iamperfection wrote: i dont see what your getting at i believe thrawn has played before and it seems like to me he was just confused about the case on me because one liners aren't a scum tell for me i like to have conversations thats how i play. Did you even read my post? It wasn't about you because that was reasonable and after that i went to look at your past games and i know that's what you do as town. I wanted your opinion on how thrawn didn't comment on stuff i thought was scummy from WoS but instead basically said "he has done more townie things so these scummy things do not matter". | ||
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##unvote | ||
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On January 09 2014 01:41 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright gave Cheese a good readthrough as well as Artanis's problems with him--- To the thread: I ask you, do you really find the weak CC push onto Artanis on its own lynchworthy? He said it was not a push but a converation starter - 10 pages into the game. That's all he has done, "started a conversation". Cora is using sihtlogic and apparently will not stop using it and kush refuses to play the game. Both will lose the game for the town regardless of their alignment. I am done with incredible stupidity in games. | ||
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On January 09 2014 03:01 thrawn2112 wrote: no i think kush is town and tbh he's not annoying or disruptive or anything. half of the "anti town" shit he says I can see coming before you even poke at him... you guys make it so easy for him to troll you It doesn't fukcing matter because he is essentially a +1 mafia vote because he bases his votes on bullshit because he does not even fucking know what's going on in the game at any point. | ||
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On January 09 2014 03:07 WaveofShadow wrote: Rayn since you're around what about gumshoe? I don't know because he has not been here. The difference is i expect gumshoe, fuba and CC to actually play mafia later. I don't expect kush and Cora play mafia, it's pretty self-evident from their posts. | ||
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On January 09 2014 03:17 thrawn2112 wrote: of the two of them which do you think is more likely to not play as town and scum Both are equally bad. One refuses to read the thread and the other one refuses to contribute and tells people to back off from any case before even reading it. | ||
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On January 09 2014 03:24 thrawn2112 wrote: I think the difference is that kush and I played in the same newbies and I have seen all of his bs through the past couple years, and I know that if he's town he can be harmless and even helpful as long as you don't bait him into trolling you. I am sure he can but he just refused to read the thread because "so many posts". That will not change. | ||
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On January 09 2014 03:30 kushm4sta wrote: rayn why do i have to read the thread when i can just read some of your excellent posts instead and get summary + analysis Because even if i am town that does not make me right. This is exactly what i am talking about. You are a +1 vote for me or for anyone who in your mind makes most sense. That's not how you play mafia and i am not here to lick your ass so that i get your vote and someone else does not. | ||
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On January 09 2014 03:31 thrawn2112 wrote: Ok so you're wanting to policy lynch two people. Surely it's helpful to have a conversation about their alignments? Not really because you can't tell kush's alignment because he just +1's someone. Corazon makes zero sense in all of his posts, maybe he's more likely to be mafia. Either way the other one should be vigged. ##Vote: Corazon I have a case on him already in thread. | ||
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On January 08 2014 17:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with Corazon is he uses arguments like "WBG is mafia because he refuses to play the game". First of all if he did read between the lines what WBG said there was: "I am pressuring yamato to contribute. This is also a message to every player in this game i want everyone to contribute. If you don't, you are scum, because there is no reason for a townie to talk and interact with people. My vote however does not mean i won't do shit, which i prove to you here Corazon, by asking you about your reads and stuff". Somehow Corazon twists this into "I have done much more than you so don't tell me i have not done shit - you are scum because you haven't done shit and you are not trying to play the game". Okay, i could see that coming from town Corazon, he could think so. But when i make a case on thrawn, he does not apparently even read the case (or if he does - he misrepresents it totally - which makes him scum). He calls the case OMGUS and the argument between me and thrawn a "shitstorm which will ruin the town". This is totally not the case. He shuts down a case based on incorrect things and stupid assumptions and refuses to contribute towards the case in itself. When asked to do so multiple times he still refuses to do so, but instead he calls thrawn town for other reasons (hint: that's an entirely incorrect way to play mafia and fucking scummy). Not only that, when i ask for his reasons for calling thrawn town (what Corazon sees as thrawn's contributions to scumhunting) he again refuses to answer and instead says he won't answer because of the pressure that's on him. Again, fucking scummy. TLDR; He (incorrectly) calls WBG mafia for not playing the game when in fact it's him who is not playing the game. He repeatedly refuses to explain his logic (which should be very easy thing to do for a town player) - something that is a foundation in proving your own towniness and therefore reducing the suspect pool. In addition to that he shuts down cases with no reasoning which equals shutting down the discussion which equals not playing the game, which is a scumtell by his own definition. And that's my case on him. | ||
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On January 09 2014 03:37 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I haven't read a single post cora has made because usually they're so hostile I don't even care You will also get lynched if you do not start playing the game and keep on posting this useless crap. | ||
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On January 09 2014 03:39 justanothertownie wrote: This is for rayn: + Show Spoiler + On January 08 2014 14:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think this is a right way to go, because yamato already promised to contribute. When someone does that you leave them alone to make them feel comfortable (in case they are scum) and focus on other people. If yamato does not contribute, he claims scum and we can vote him at the end of the day. If we vote for yamato now, regardless of his alignment, noone else is pressured and while townies should not stop contributing even when there is a clear thread sentiment that's unfortunately not the general line of thinking. Placing votes on yamato will kill the discussion to some extent, people are more likely to contribute if they are under pressure. yamato was already under pressure and promised to contribute, that pressure has achieved what it's purpose was. You are such a hypocrite. Do you know what you are doing here? No? You are doing exactly what I was doing in my little fight wit bugs. He voted Kush who was absent and did not want to go after and pressure or discuss anyone else and I tried to explain to him how it doesn't help and how we could still vote Kush later and kill him. Still you write this: On January 08 2014 13:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: On a sidenote i love bugs, that's exactly how you play mafia and JAT and Corazon are being dumb. That does not mean they are scum though. Yeah... well how much did bugs contribute before I made him do it? Exactly. Funny how you call me dumb for getting him to do something but after our last game I won't consider this logic failures a scumtell for you. <3 There is a difference when you read between the lines. Not interested in explaining this further. | ||
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On January 09 2014 03:45 WaveofShadow wrote: Ok look at kush. Why is he being allowed to continue in this game? I giggled. | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:04 Corazon wrote: Hey Rayn. Stop lying. I answered Thrawn's question. Hey Corazon. Stop lying. "There are better targets" =/= "thrawn has contributed towards scumhunting". In fact it's an entirely different answer and avoiding the questiuon. | ||
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On January 08 2014 13:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Corazon show me thrawn's contributions to scumhunting. If you can do that i take my vote oof you. If you can't my vote will stay and not move. You have now flip-flopped around the question for a fucking day. | ||
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Fucking simple. | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:21 thrawn2112 wrote: Rayn when you harass a scum player for 24 hours asking them to provide quotes to back something up, don't you think they'd eventually make an attempt to satisfy you? Even if it's a weak one? Not say, "Yeah I actually lied about that." I don't know. Either way he is not an asset to town. | ||
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I don't want those kinda people alive later on in the game. Period. | ||
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And a townie hammered himself on MYLO. And people speedvoted, on MYLO. Not gonna happen this game -> remove stupidity. | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:25 thrawn2112 wrote: rayn you're replacing stupidity with stupidity Explain. How am i being stupid? | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:28 Corazon wrote: Well Rayn, how can you tell my usefulness when you don't give me any breathing room. Are you really saying that I am going to be more useless than Kush, CC, fuba, gumshoe, Artanis, and Yamato? I'm here! I'm talking to you and I'm continuing to let you figure out my alignment. If we get down to MYLO, you are going to have a fairly decent opinion about my alignment. You cannot say the same about the people I listed above. I can help out town but it's hard to scumhunt when the mobs are coming after you the moment you try to get anything done. Dunno about kush but yes, you are going to be more useless than any other of those guys because you: 1) lie 2) refuse to clarify your thought process 3) want people to hold hands instead of making cases and interacting with each other 4) promote toxic thread atmosphere because of all above as people need to waste 100 posts on getting a single thought out of you | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:31 thrawn2112 wrote: You're policy lynching for destructive behavior that you're provoking in the first place. I don't have any problems with cora's attitude (none that affect who I want to lynch) and I don't mind kush at all. I also don't think either of them are scum. In fact singling them out for a policy lynch is realistically only going to antagonize them further. All you have to do is decide if you think kush is mafia/town. Lynch if scum. Cooperate with him if he's town. What you are doing is not even worrying about his alignment and refusing to cooperate because you think he will also refuse. This post is totally wrong. I have stated multiple times in thread why those people are no use for town even if they are town. Thay have proved it in this game. | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:36 thrawn2112 wrote: wbg are you here? I'm about to leave for this phase and would like your thoughts on yamato Why does it matter what WBG thinks of yamato? | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:40 thrawn2112 wrote: At least let the conversation happen first. I hope you are going to give me a reasonable answer after the conversation or that your vote ends up in WBG. | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Rayn How have "Thay proved it in this game" I have literally just made a fucking page of a filter of posts that say that. What the fuck are you doing? | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:48 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: By THIS game did you mean extractor? Because that line is fucking confusing when i think you mean this game right here right now and you know the alignment of someone you're lynching WHERE THE FUCK DO I SAY I KNOW CORAZON'S ALIGNMENT? | ||
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WHAT THE FUCKING HELL? | ||
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The key word here is "EVEN". Holy fucking shit, can't people read any more? | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: This post is totally wrong. I have stated multiple times in thread why those people are no use for town even if they are town. Thay have proved it in this game. They will not help the town win even if they are town. This is proven by their posts in this game. They have proven they can't help the town, nowhere i fucking say they are town. | ||
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Other than that he has done nothing in this game but had an argument with Artanis, then he had no read on him, then he wanted to lynch him, then he said it was in fact a conversation starter, and then he wanted to lynch him again for no reasoning. | ||
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On January 09 2014 05:31 wherebugsgo wrote: Rayn your vote is quite wasted atm. I need people to cooperate. Assuming we leave yamato alive till tomorrow, which in the end is probably not the worst thing in the world if he is indeed scum (but obviously great if he's town) then I would much rather we kill Corazon over cheesecake. I would not mind killing kush either but that's almost out of spite for him being so utterly bad. yamato is town and Cheesecake is scum. Cheesecake hasn't contributed anything about anything when anything important has been going on. | ||
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On January 09 2014 05:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: In efforts to straighten this thread out from the shitflinging contest that it is: here are reads. Corazon - Senseless, yelling at people, calling people scum. It's difficult to formulate a decent read on him without factoring in the douchebaggery involved. Do scum act like this often? Or is this something specifically attributed to Corazon? If anyone has a scum corazon game on hand I'd like to see it. @Cora I want you to calm down. Give us your top scumreads with 2-3 reasons why for each. Honestly the sense is just strew apart in the thread, maybe it's there if I can get a consolidated post. You've been a bitch to me already for no reason, and I have no problem lynching you. If you're town I want the best reads you can give me. Yamato - I think he's town. Based on extractor I don't see a reason he cant be town here, and lynching him day 1 is probably a mistake. JAT - leaning scum. When I was arguing with rayn about the semantic thing (which, by the way, people have to stop saying shit thats confusing) he jumped right on with a few posts to bolster the argument which was clearly false. I also didn't like how he fought with bugs about the kush thing. It also looks like he misinterpreted my-artanis interaction at the beginning of the day which didn't make sense to me. Rayn - Probably town, though Idk what rayn scum looks like. He tunnels on cora and bullshits at him which is fine (well.. w.e.). I am really hesitant about listening to his reasoning after extractor. Thrawn - looks town, would bang. Artanis - Idk where the hell he went after voting me for crap reasons. Tunneled onto me for similarly crap reasons. Would lynch if anyone is down. So right now I'm looking at JAT/Artanis or a policy of cora/kush. - Read on yamato is not a read. "I can't see why he can't be town" - Read on JAT is so bullshit it probably comes out of CC's ears. That's the worst reasoning for a read i have seen in this game because every single thing is so wrong. - Read on me is not a read. Discrediting me for bullshit reasons, i would have lynched mafia on D2 if idiots didn't hammer yamato. - Read on thrawn is bullshit. - Read on Artanis is bullshit because CC did scummy stuff, then Artanis called him out for it. After that CC changed his reasoning to something else, but later on went back to the original reasoning for no reason. It's just so stupid and every other post the reasoning for Artanis being mafia changes from one thing to another. | ||
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On January 09 2014 05:50 wherebugsgo wrote: Suppose we lynched Cheese. He flips town. What happens then? What kinda question is this? Suppose we lynch yamato and he flips town. Can we lynch you next? | ||
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On January 09 2014 05:53 wherebugsgo wrote: wtf?? That's not how this game works. You can't just fucking lynch someone and then not accept that you messed up. No bugs, that's not how the game works. When a townie gets lynched it's their fault, not anyone else's. They were the scummiest person in the game because they had the most votes at the end of the day. | ||
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##unvote I hate when people confirm themselves town this way. | ||
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On January 09 2014 05:57 wherebugsgo wrote: holy fuck I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not this is jubjub level logic. This is how you'll never improve, if every time you lynch a townie you blame the guy for getting lynched instead of asking yourself why your goddamn read was wrong. I dunno, when i started playing mafia i read Palmar's comment on who to blame when a townie gets mislynched. I have been mislynched exactly 4 times in my ~55 town games, in 3 of them i basically intentionally killed myself because i did not want to play anymore and one time i could not convince the town i was town because someone made a case on me after i lynched mafia on D2 "you must be bussing, so we should kill you and then we should kill the mafia's counter-wagon, obviously you are both bussing, no other option kthxbye". I could not argue against that shitlogic because everyone in town used the same shitlogic. Whose fault? My fault. | ||
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##Vote: Corazon | ||
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1) establish your innocence 2) try to lynch mafia and only that town would win every game. When you have a town that works together the town wins. When people are clear in their thoughts and clarify their thought process. When you have people who only post half-assed comments, people who claim that they will not play, and people who are clearly not reading the thead and refuse to cooperate you already know you are going to lose the game if those people are alive at the end of the game. It doesn't even fucking matter if they are town, because they do not play towards town's win condition regardless of their alignment. That's why those people get lynched, that's why i get angry, and that's why people hate me, because when i get angry i become mean towards those people - i can't stand people who sign up to games and don't even try to play. If you can post 2 posts / day phase and have time for no more do not fucking use that time to argue about semantics or something irrelevant, read the thread and make one coherent case on your top scumread and try to push it. That's it, even if you are wrong or miss some other stuff or fail to consolidate it shows you have a clear opinion and you stand behind it. If you give 8 half-assed reads which are not even reads or are not explained or that make no sense given what's actually happened in the game you are not trying to get scum lynched, you are trying to do something you can't possibly achieve if you are town. Who cares who is your #4 scumread, who cares if you do not like player X. You are here to lynch mafia and not for telling who is a cool guy and who is not. And then people say, after doing that, "but i had no time to play". It makes me see red. | ||
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It's clear he's not going to contribute, as he's said nothing of original value despite showing in past games that he has the capability and despite being around practically all the time. Basically this, and yes, i actually think Corazon is mafia, so i am not policy lynching here. | ||
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On January 09 2014 06:52 justanothertownie wrote: How come? Because you think you would be able to read him? Yes, and because i am confident i could get him to vote with me even if i could't read him. | ||
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On January 09 2014 15:17 kushm4sta wrote: why not rayn? Because that mean ALL scum did on D1 was bussed, and bussed hard. No fucking way. | ||
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On January 09 2014 04:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why does it matter what WBG thinks of yamato? On January 09 2014 04:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are not planning on lynching WBG it shouldn't mean shit to you what he thinks at this point. Now it's time to answer this thrawn. | ||
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On January 09 2014 15:38 kushm4sta wrote: do you realize that is exactly what i do as mafia? So that's a +1 to policy lynch regardless of what you did in this game. | ||
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If you are scum we can just lynch WoS and call it a game. ezpz. | ||
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On January 09 2014 15:57 thrawn2112 wrote: because early on he told everyone that nobody suspects him on D1, which I didn't so now I'm worried. tbh I haven't thought about it any more than that, would need to read his filter to tell you more. So if he looks town to people he is scum? That's what i get accused a lot of and that's retarded. | ||
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On January 09 2014 16:20 thrawn2112 wrote: I have no amazing reason to think he is town so that is why he can't be knocked off a list of possible scum. Do you think wbg looks town? I don't like how much lecturing about how to play mafia goes into his posts and he isn't even talking about reasons for why people could be scum. I don't want him to die, but I haven't seen anything to make me feel confident about that. He's capable of quality posts as both alignments. I wasn't even going to bring this up because it's so inconsequential, but you asked. Lecturing about how to play mafia is not alignment indicative in my opinion and it only tells you how that person should be playing. If they don't play like that they are playing against their own "rules of playing town" and they are probably scum. | ||
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On January 09 2014 16:30 gumshoe wrote: Anyone have any questions for me before I go to sleep? Not really, no. At least i don't. I don't think your reasons for thinking thrawn is scum are good because you can't tell thrawn's alignment based on what Corazon says about him and the "buddying one guy and not the other people" thingy is just meh but i don't have pa roblem with you because i think thrawn is scum. | ||
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mkfuba07 - if he started the game by making a good logical thought process on his scumbuddy then i am amazed. gumshoe - has clear thoughts and i totally disagree with WBG about his post near the deadline, i can't see scum making that post. yamato77 - don't have to worry about him in a long time iamperfection - leaning town on because of his posts towards Cora at the EOD and his willingness to let go of his tunnel on yamato justanothertownie - had some good posts and i especially liked him commenting mainly on Corazon when he got back and there were multiple wagons. some of his posts are not that good and i think he is focusing on wrong / minor non-alignment indicative things a lot, but should prove his towniness if town later on. kushm4sta - being really dumb or scum, at the moment it's impossible to say which Artanis[Xp] - inactive, not much to say, case on CC was fine, interested in seeing where he is headed next WaveofShadow - some stuff is good, some stuff is bad, some stuff is terribad. need moar wherebugsgo - case to come before deadline thrawn2112 - case to come before deadline | ||
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I know you are perfectly capable of making good logical arguments and reads as town. In 4 Persona you were the town MVP from N2 onwards. In Titanic 2 i shot you over Blazinghand/Artanis/Xatalos/three other people because you looked so town and because i thought you were most likely to solve the game after DarthPunk. I also know you are not capable of making good logical arguments as mafia, because you just can't put yourself into the right mindset which is pretty evident from Extractor game. Therefore your alignment is pretty easy to figure out and now, when the thread is not moving fast is a perfect time to prove your alignment if you are town. So please do so, for me. | ||
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He has a case on Cheesecake. I ask him to contribute to thrawn/WoS/Corazon. He says Corazon is the scummiest of those three people, gives a few scumpoints to WoS aswell, and doesn't understand thrawn's "scumminess". In this post: On January 08 2014 21:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I like this point. I also like this point. Scumpointsᵀᴹ to Cora. I agree here though I'd need to filter dive WoS again. I'm not sure this is something he'd do as town especially after being so active. I can't really comment on the Thrawn case because I have no idea what the effects of drugs are as I've never really used them myself. In a vacuum it looks scummy as shit and I haven't really been impressed by the rest of his play. Dunno when I'll be back, but I'll try to find time before the deadline. He agrees with my reasoning for WoS to possibly be mafia (as he gives him scumpoints). The reasoning is WoS' "bullshit stance" on yamato which is quite clear from my post. However, when the thread sentiment leans towards lynching Corazon here's what Artanis does: On January 09 2014 01:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'd be willing to lynch Yamato but I'd rather get CC. Bang, like a scumclaim. | ||
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If you can post 2 posts / day phase and have time for no more do not fucking use that time to argue about semantics or something irrelevant, read the thread and make one coherent case on your top scumread and try to push it. That's it, even if you are wrong or miss some other stuff or fail to consolidate it shows you have a clear opinion and you stand behind it. If you give 8 half-assed reads which are not even reads or are not explained or that make no sense given what's actually happened in the game you are not trying to get scum lynched, you are trying to do something you can't possibly achieve if you are town. Who cares who is your #4 scumread, who cares if you do not like player X. You are here to lynch mafia and not for telling who is a cool guy and who is not. This is what bothered me about Cheesecake and not at all about fuba/gumshoe. I was planning on making kush contribute on N1 which would have probably succeeded in figuring out his alignment. | ||
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+ one secret special tell i won't reveal ^^ | ||
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On January 09 2014 22:23 iamperfection wrote: Glorious Victory? At least i did not let you lynch yamato. ^_^ | ||
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On January 09 2014 22:26 iamperfection wrote: pretty sure i decided to not lynch yamato. I am pretty sure if bugs' "suggestion" on "everyone vote for yamato nao - no other discussion kthxbye" would have gone through yamato would have gotten mad and raged himself lynched considering he was already depressed from the Extractor trick game. | ||
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On January 09 2014 22:30 marvellosity wrote: As an aside, bugs posted a lot of weird shit this game. yeah, i noticed that too. | ||
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We could have been singing Kumbayaa and lynching maffyaa.. | ||
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On January 09 2014 15:43 thrawn2112 wrote: It mattered because I was about to go to work, I didn't know who to leave my vote on because everyone was so concerned with policy lynch arguments and not with alignments. I figured even if bugs is scum he'd probably give better advice than anyone I was currently talking to. That looked really bad. | ||
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On January 09 2014 22:39 marvellosity wrote: bugs this game kinda had what I call Palmaritis Where you talk far too much about how the game "should" be played and don't take into account human emotion/reactions. As an example, after the flip - yamato was really happy and was going around calling himself almost confirmed town, saying the wagon can't have been scum/scum, basically strutting about in a pretty cute way. bugs called this "very scummy". Well... maybe in isolation, because maybe a mafia could do that. But generally speaking, yamato's tone and confidence in his own townieness strongly indicated that he was town. What yamato was doing was not 'very scummy' at all, in fact it was a reasonably strong town indicator. Towns are generally more likely to be confident in their own towniness. Even more than this, townies are more likely to think they look townier than they are for the wrong reasons (Toad is the perfect example of someone who always does this) Same with what bugs said about gumshoe, bugs calling him "scummy as shit" for coming in last minute, doing some silly long reads post and not voting Cora. See yeah, on the surface that's pretty bad. But actually gumshoe was so blitheringly, moronically (no offence) unaware of what was going on, what gumshoe did was more likely to come from town. What mafia player, when he sees his scumbuddy claim scum, doesn't think his scumbuddy is claiming scum? That's a really unnatural mindset. Far more likely to be dopey townie. Yeah, exactly +1000 on gumshoe read. yamato has a towntell: On January 07 2014 23:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: From this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439654¤tpage=12#236 ..onwards in his filter. There is something happening, i just dunno what that something is, but i don't really care, because it's enough for me. He basically can't do that as mafia. Or maybe he can, after this game.. | ||
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My condolences  | ||
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Well i found Artanis and was going to convince a possible vigi to shoot him but then the game ended. | ||
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On January 10 2014 11:58 kushm4sta wrote: when rayn is in the game (and town) you don't have to read, because you can just look at his big posts and he lays everything out for you While i understand you there is a problem with this kush. If you do this it''s incredibly hard for me to form a read on you because you are basically +1'ing or -1'ing me. I am not always right and regardless of me being right or wrong i might miss some important stuff or consider some stuff incorrectly unimportant. If you just agree/disagree with me or the things i bring up and i am looking into wrong places it's 2 townies "out of the game". That's why i don't like what you proposed on D1. I want you to give your opinion on what has happened and what you find important in the game at that time. If you just ask "who should i look into" you are already doing what i said in the upper paragraph because i can't possibly point you to anything else than what i myself find important / scummy. I want more insight from you, and especially form you, because usually you think quite differently and focus on different things than i do, so gimme gimme! ^^ | ||
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On January 10 2014 16:44 Corazon wrote: Rayn. I've always wanted to know this about you: Do you sleep? I do. Just slept ~10 hours. I've just had a lots of free time during xmas and for a week or so still so i understand the question. ^^ | ||
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On January 10 2014 16:52 Corazon wrote: Do you live in Finland? And what allows you to play mafia 24/7? Yeah i live in Finland. atm got nothing much else to do. I usually sleep when you Americans are posting, unless it's weekend when i stay up later mainly because of voice mafia. | ||
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On January 10 2014 17:05 Corazon wrote: I think you are the only player who manages to play 3 games at the same time and not piss anyone off with lack of activity. That has more to do with my memory than my activity. Everyone is capable of making posts ifthey want to i think. I usually rememeber pretty good what has happened and where to look if i need to reread something. | ||
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On January 10 2014 19:42 marvellosity wrote: I definitely should have posted more this game. Your filter is probably bigger than Fuba's & gumshoe's combined. EDIT: oh gumshoe actually posted quite a lot on N1, nevermind. | ||
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On January 11 2014 00:43 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm pretty curious about WC2, because the sheer mention of that game infuriates me like no other. Which townies DO you feel can be blamed for that loss? (No hurt feelings here, I'm interested in your opinion.) Everyone but you, thrawn and Koshi. Okay to be fair OO played quite well aswell. | ||
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On January 11 2014 01:04 marvellosity wrote: Yes, the thing about the "big lynch" is that it's often thought of like that because everyone doesn't agree with you really. If everyone agrees with you easily then it's more of a group lynch. So it takes a lot of responsibility. Like even I didn't have the balls to push rayn on my own in day 2 of ## mafia. Too much effort. marv our day is day 3. It always happens there. <3 | ||
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On January 11 2014 01:12 ObviousOne wrote: I was like 100% wrong about my scum reads in that game, all four of my suspects were town. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, in what way did you mean I played quite well? You were obviously town. I don't have a problem of defending my team on D2, i am more afraid of people i can't possibly lynch in any way. And you being wrong on N1 does not mean you will be wrong at the end of D2. | ||
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On January 11 2014 01:18 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not sure you can say 'obvious town' from a scum perspective especially if the rest of the thread at the time didn't agree. I think a situation like that is relative. Like I believed I was 'obvious town' but once again people saw fit to consistently vote you and Umasi in. We shot ObviousOne because we thought you and him were the most obvious townies for people (at least after the night kill and when people actually re-evaluate D1 and N1). The reason we did not shoot you was because i thought you 100% won a blue role with me & Umasi and i blue-vigged you. But lol, Cephiro?!?!? | ||
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"When you play, you have to start off with a mind to turn the game into a rape." Well this is what at least i do every game. It usually also works, if not for my team then for the opposite team. haha I think in mafia games the biggest flaw for people is that they are afraid to make mistakes. | ||
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On January 11 2014 02:02 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't recognize my mistakes, and other times what I think may be a mistake really wouldn't have been. I don't think 'mistake' in mafia is always as clear---there is not always a very clear 'right' or 'wrong' thing to post/do, and even when there are, often those things are susceptible to change as the TL meta changes. That's why i usually talk with marv in PM's after... nearly every single game. All mistakes and "mistakes" are not so black and white and it's nice to have an another perspective on things even if you do not 100% agree what was / would have been the best play. | ||
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On January 11 2014 02:04 marvellosity wrote: Should have just told you to cut it out because you were wrong instead :p Haha yeah. I could have also lynched Acrofales but i had this horrible horrible win condition and i needed him alive for later town credit. | ||
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My fakeclaims have never ever hurt the town because i plan them so that there can't be a possible scum motivation to do so. | ||
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On January 11 2014 02:30 marvellosity wrote: Or claiming veteran in Desert meaning mafia knew not to hit you, giving town one less lynch to solve the game Yeah but you see, i could not possibly know debears was a third party veteran. I thought there was a doctor and scum hit doctor's target and debears was claiming for town cred (as doc or their target was not informed). idk, i thought i found scum, i found it impossible that there were 2 veterans (which was kinda true as he was 3p). | ||
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But i am impatient and i can't help it. On January 11 2014 02:37 marvellosity wrote: by the way, it's not just about the scum motivation, it's the confusion and distraction it causes. It's basically a quite egocentric way to play the game, because although it might work for you, it makes the game more difficult for all the other townies, which is hard to underestimate. This is an interesting point. I have always considered it (obviously) from only my perspective, as i assume people are capable of thinking about scum/town motives and i feel like when i do stuff like that i am ALWAYS able to explain why, and why that is the only explanation (town motive) for what i do. But i know, you have a point, different people think differently. I should probably take that into account too. | ||
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I could (maybe) find townies / mafia with but it does not matter if people don't agree (for whatever reason is irrelevant). | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + also yamato was mafia. | ||
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