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*Note especially the last post I quoted.
On January 08 2014 14:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So everyone who's been around (WoS, iamp, bugs mainly);
Is there a reason you guys did not comment on my case on thrawn at all? While i changed my vote that does not mean the case becomes invalid.
I don't really think he is scum.
I don't have great reasons for that but I would say there are far better choices for lynch today. I'd rank Yamato, fuba, and cora all above him.
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Here's what I don't understand about Yamato (who, by the way, is clearly not reading the thread properly, as can be seen by one single thing that in fact makes his case on iamp completely pointless)
He comes back and posts a bunch of stuff on Cora and WoS. The stuff on Cora is fine, the stuff on WoS is also mostly fine but probably not exactly entirely true in the context of the game (read: it sounds like a filtercase) and the stuff on iamperfection, while partly true, is...lol. The amount of evidence there to call iamp scum is honesty vastly underwhelming compared to yamato's description of Cora's play.
Yet, the most important part is that Yamato voted iamp. But he did one thing, and put it into spoilers. The host did not count the vote. If Yamato were reading the thread and truly were interested in killing iamperfection, wouldn't he revote after there were two indications that his vote had not been counted? There was both a host message and a vote count. Smells like he's not reading the thread.
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The other thing that is completely scummy as fuck is that he took so much time to come back with something so underwhelming.
If he truly were interested in killing iamp he'd be scrambling for us to voteswitch, yet he basically did juuuust enough to throw suspicion off himself. The day ends in like 9 hours, surely Yamato is not dumb enough to have missed that. So, why did he pop back in, vote, and then leave? No push to convince people that they are wrong about him and, more importantly, wrong about iamperfection? If he were reading the thread wouldn't he know how townish several people have labeled iamp (I myself said something about it). If he actually cared, he'd definitely have noticed that his vote didn't count.
Instead he just disappeared right after posting. That's something scum do.
How many times have you all played scum to have a teammate say, "Oh hey, just make a post so we can get the heat off you." Making a case and then not following through on it is what scum do, not town.
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Your mere presence does not invalidate my post, in fact it does the exact opposite.
You responded so fast to me that it suggests you've been actively lurking this entire time. That's even worse, since it means rather than neglect/being afk (which would actually make you look more townie-if you legitimately did not have time) you actually knew that your vote didn't count, you did not respond to iamperfection, and you CHOSE not to further your case.
All things that are even scummier than my original points because it displays that you were present yet unwilling to push your case.
The fact that your best argument against what I am saying is your mere presence in the thread is pathetic.
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Also rayn what iamperfection did with WoS closely followed my own thought process on WoS at the time. Nothing I found there seemed particularly off. Initially WoS had some really bad posts and then quickly afterward he started making more sense. The only difference was that lamp voted him, and I chose not to.
Now ofc I'm defending that on the basis that I am town and it makes sense from my perspective. I'd probably do a similar thing as scum but I think that only speaks to my play and is not really indicative at all of iamp's alignment (which, based on the other things he's done, is likely to be town IMO. If he's not, it'd be really bad, but there's no indication that we need to be paranoid)
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To be frank I really don't understand why people think fuba is town, or why him "making sense" is indicative of him being town, when he really isn't making sense, and the way his activity and suspicions have gone really do not make me think he is town. Granted, he could just be really, really bad, but I hate making the assumption that someone is bad when their play makes more sense from a scum perspective than a town one.
I want to wait on the flip but fuba's reentrance conveniently came shortly after Yamato posted. He said Yamato "made sense" which indicates a cursory opinion. Sure, Yamato filterdove three players and did nothing much more than a summary of the scummy plays of those three players. You could literally pick anyone in the game and do exactly the same thing and the case would make sense. How do I know that? Cause I do it myself all the fucking time as scum. And people will actually lynch otherwise really obvious townies if all you do is repeatedly reiterate the same scummy points.
In this case fuba really did not provide anything other than a one line justification for voting Cora over Yamato. Pretty weak either way, but worse is that he didn't do any sort of following up on his post (and no one held him accountable to his opinions by questioning him, either)
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Rayn, despite being focused on thrawn you stated you'd rather lynch CC and Cora before WoS (so I'm assuming Yamato comes first)
Why was thrawn not in there?
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Anyway I think this convo between you guys is pretty fruitless. I also think there's almost no chance we lynch thrown today (or anyone other than Yamato, really)
We need to get people onto Yamato. I'll be around sporadically, but I'm going to lunch and a movie so I don't know how much time I can commit for the next few hours. I should hopefully be done a few hours before lynch.
I highly encourage everyone to read my two posts on Yamato following his "vote" on iamperfection. I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd link them. We need to consolidate on Yamato now, before it becomes too hectic close to the lynch to have anything reasonably thought-out or predictable. We need to be prepared for Yamato to be kicking and screaming regardless of alignment. How he does it will determine his alignment.
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On January 09 2014 00:16 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 00:12 wherebugsgo wrote:
Anyway I think this convo between you guys is pretty fruitless. I also think there's almost no chance we lynch thrown today (or anyone other than Yamato, really)
We need to get people onto Yamato. I'll be around sporadically, but I'm going to lunch and a movie so I don't know how much time I can commit for the next few hours. I should hopefully be done a few hours before lynch.
I highly encourage everyone to read my two posts on Yamato following his "vote" on iamperfection. I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd link them. We need to consolidate on Yamato now, before it becomes too hectic close to the lynch to have anything reasonably thought-out or predictable. We need to be prepared for Yamato to be kicking and screaming regardless of alignment. How he does it will determine his alignment. it will get done more importantly what movie are you seeing.
I saw Frozen :p
When I came back my door was frozen -_-
On January 09 2014 01:11 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 01:08 kushm4sta wrote:
sorry but I am not interesting in playing a conversational style of mafia this game. I will not read through your epically long conversations.
anyway yamato is lynch bait these days dont fucking sign up dude. You basically said well I'm not going to read the thread. Fuck you
On January 09 2014 01:13 WaveofShadow wrote:
It's shit like this.
Nobody would ever support a switch to him to punish this kind of play but FUCK
I think at this point it's best to just pretend he doesn't exist. I think he'll understand when people start listing him under players they'd rather not play with for wisdom of the crowds or whatever that is.
He's more or less just trolling. Since we have a better chance at killing mafia by not killing him, we have no choice but to ignore him.
On January 09 2014 04:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
wbg are you here? I'm about to leave for this phase and would like your thoughts on yamato
Nothing he has done so far has changed my read.
He basically made a reentrance version 2.0 and then has stuck around to throw around useless one liners ever since. He's not bothered pushing his stance all that hard.
Corazon looks pretty scummy too but in my eyes their alignments are divorced. I think we can kill either Cora or Yamato today but I do not think that the other should be left alone after that. (i.e. they are scummy regardless of what the other's alignment is, which is why I don't think we should read into the fact that they are voting each other) Neither has truly bothered to give a whole-hearted push of the other, too, which is disconcerting on both ends.
Do you find it odd that yamato has found the time to be around but consistently does not do what one would expect town yamato to do? Do you think, even if it is a time-issue, that town yamato would act the way he's currently acting? I see a lot of whining from both Corazon and Yamato. Neither of them seem to be trying very hard to get their reads lynched, nor do they seem to be willing to discuss things rather than just throw up their hands and accuse others in very vague terms.
Yamato's attack on iamp would have made sense from a town perspective if and only if it was strongly motivated. It was so weak, however, that I could really only make sense of it from a scum perspective. Do you think a town yamato would expend so little effort on pushing iamp if he truly thought that his "secret read" was so important? I got the impression that he wanted to gauge the reaction of other players to his "idea" and to see what would happen if he pushed iamp. I don't get the impression that he actually strongly believed iamp was ever scum. If he had, as he himself noted that his vote didn't count, I think he would have both revoted and encouraged the rest of town to flip the vote. Do you agree?
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On January 09 2014 05:02 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 05:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I literally said "They have proven they are no use to town, even if they are town".
The key word here is "EVEN". Holy fucking shit, can't people read any more? that still indicates that you think cora is town... w.e. semantics. dropped.
semantically it's actually ambiguous.
From the context though it's pretty apparent that he meant that they've proved that they're a detriment to town (period), not that they're a detriment despite being town.
Which makes sense, they both are a huge detriment to town no matter what their alignments are.
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On January 09 2014 05:05 yamato77 wrote:
WBG, I gauge reactions of the thread as town before voting. Your point is not alignment indicative.
Sure, everyone gauges reactions, but the manner matters.
Most townies will often confidently push their lynch, even if sometimes they are not truly completely confident, because if their argument is persuasive, then it will gain momentum on its own merits. I do not believe that you are an exception to this.
You pushed a weak case on a player who was obviously not being suspected by many players, if any at all. That he was unsuspected was pretty obvious even though no one actually outright said so. As town, if I had a dissenting opinion and I thought it was important enough to vote the target more than 24 hours into the day I'd probably come back yelling at people to not become complacent and let someone like iamp slip through the cracks as "towny enough". Yet, you didn't do that. You even knew the vote wasn't valid and you didn't bother reaffirming it.
A person's vote in the game is pretty much the only thing we can truly hold them accountable for, because regardless of what they say the vote is what ultimately matters. This is just basics, anyone who has played the game as much as you should know it. I don't think you're a bad player and thus the avenue you took regarding iamp is really scummy.
For anyone who is interested, try reading these following posts and try to guess Yamato's alignment in each. I've pulled almost all of these from day 1s of games in an attempt to keep them mostly homogeneous, though they may come from games of different sizes and types.
+ Show Spoiler +yamato77 wrote:
I'm really only interested in figuring out the alignments of Marv and Hapa, because if they are town they will figure the rest of you out and we'll win the game. If they are scum we lynch them and the game becomes far easier to figure out. So forgive me for ignoring everyone else, my posts will be focused on them.
First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours.
What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note.
Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town.
If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later.
+ Show Spoiler + yamato77 wrote:
Mattchew, what exactly is a "sandroba type player" to you?
And how does he differ from Marv in the early game?
I agree that catching Marv early is hard, but I don't know how that makes him different from Sandro. Is sandro easy to catch as mafia or something?
Also, I don't understand how you think playing with the assumption that marv = town is a good idea. While he's often pro-town as mafia or scum, wouldn't you not want to let yourself be influenced by marv's opinions on the alignments of players if he is mafia?
+ Show Spoiler +On February 15 2013 16:20 yamato77 wrote:
Let me walk you through my thought process on Zess, since that seems to be what people think I'm not explaining.
When someone starts the game as he did, voting a player under "random" pretensions, I immediately am inclined to think they're mafia. It's a very dumb way to look like you're playing around and being funny with the rest of town, when in reality you're starting what sometimes becomes a trend, establishing an early atmosphere of voting people on a whim, for almost no reason at all. It is in these types of environments that mafia thrive.
And indeed, it did turn into a trend as soon as he threw his vote on me for something completely townie, and barely justifying it. How is me trying to figure out people's alignments scummy? To be clear, when I "insinuated" that Mattchew/Syllo were mafia, I was in the process of attempting to get information that would lead me toward their alignment. i consider the possibility that they are mafia, because in some way, what they're doing could come from a mafia perspective. In fact, since that time, the information I've been able to ascertain has told me the opposite, they seem town.
Why does he want to paint me scum so quick for this? And indeed, when I indirectly ask about his read, he says he hasn't called me scum. What sense does this make? If anything, it only serves to strengthen my bias against him, that he's not playing to figure out my alignment, he's playing to stir shit up with me and fuck off with his reads. His other "reads" have been very noncommittal, especially with regards to Marv, where he says he "agrees with Toad" (who has voted for Marv) and then lists a whole bunch of reasons he isn't jumping on it. Waiting for the opportune moment, I presume?
Perhaps I haven't really explained myself thoroughly up to this point, but when you look at him from my perspective, Zess' play makes no sense for a townie. The fact that he's continued to be spammy and contentless since my early vote on him only serves to steel my resolve. Dude is mafia.
Many of them only really make sense in context, though (the previous one might be one of those)
With that said, check out his filter from this game as well:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946&user=yamato77&view=all
Notice the tone, try to put yourself in the shoes of the player from both alignments. What makes more sense? The timestamps are also helpful, as they give an insight into activity level.
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On January 09 2014 05:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##unvote
##Vote: Mr.Cheesecake
So remember how I said we'd have trouble consolidating?
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On January 09 2014 05:28 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 05:24 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 09 2014 05:05 yamato77 wrote:
WBG, I gauge reactions of the thread as town before voting. Your point is not alignment indicative. Sure, everyone gauges reactions, but the manner matters. Most townies will often confidently push their lynch, even if sometimes they are not truly completely confident, because if their argument is persuasive, then it will gain momentum on its own merits. I do not believe that you are an exception to this. You pushed a weak case on a player who was obviously not being suspected by many players, if any at all. That he was unsuspected was pretty obvious even though no one actually outright said so. As town, if I had a dissenting opinion and I thought it was important enough to vote the target more than 24 hours into the day I'd probably come back yelling at people to not become complacent and let someone like iamp slip through the cracks as "towny enough". Yet, you didn't do that. You even knew the vote wasn't valid and you didn't bother reaffirming it. A person's vote in the game is pretty much the only thing we can truly hold them accountable for, because regardless of what they say the vote is what ultimately matters. This is just basics, anyone who has played the game as much as you should know it. I don't think you're a bad player and thus the avenue you took regarding iamp is really scummy. For anyone who is interested, try reading these following posts and try to guess Yamato's alignment in each. I've pulled almost all of these from day 1s of games in an attempt to keep them mostly homogeneous, though they may come from games of different sizes and types. + Show Spoiler +yamato77 wrote:
I'm really only interested in figuring out the alignments of Marv and Hapa, because if they are town they will figure the rest of you out and we'll win the game. If they are scum we lynch them and the game becomes far easier to figure out. So forgive me for ignoring everyone else, my posts will be focused on them.
First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours.
What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note.
Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town.
If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later. yamato77 wrote:
Mattchew, what exactly is a "sandroba type player" to you?
And how does he differ from Marv in the early game?
I agree that catching Marv early is hard, but I don't know how that makes him different from Sandro. Is sandro easy to catch as mafia or something?
Also, I don't understand how you think playing with the assumption that marv = town is a good idea. While he's often pro-town as mafia or scum, wouldn't you not want to let yourself be influenced by marv's opinions on the alignments of players if he is mafia? On February 15 2013 16:20 yamato77 wrote:
Let me walk you through my thought process on Zess, since that seems to be what people think I'm not explaining.
When someone starts the game as he did, voting a player under "random" pretensions, I immediately am inclined to think they're mafia. It's a very dumb way to look like you're playing around and being funny with the rest of town, when in reality you're starting what sometimes becomes a trend, establishing an early atmosphere of voting people on a whim, for almost no reason at all. It is in these types of environments that mafia thrive.
And indeed, it did turn into a trend as soon as he threw his vote on me for something completely townie, and barely justifying it. How is me trying to figure out people's alignments scummy? To be clear, when I "insinuated" that Mattchew/Syllo were mafia, I was in the process of attempting to get information that would lead me toward their alignment. i consider the possibility that they are mafia, because in some way, what they're doing could come from a mafia perspective. In fact, since that time, the information I've been able to ascertain has told me the opposite, they seem town.
Why does he want to paint me scum so quick for this? And indeed, when I indirectly ask about his read, he says he hasn't called me scum. What sense does this make? If anything, it only serves to strengthen my bias against him, that he's not playing to figure out my alignment, he's playing to stir shit up with me and fuck off with his reads. His other "reads" have been very noncommittal, especially with regards to Marv, where he says he "agrees with Toad" (who has voted for Marv) and then lists a whole bunch of reasons he isn't jumping on it. Waiting for the opportune moment, I presume?
Perhaps I haven't really explained myself thoroughly up to this point, but when you look at him from my perspective, Zess' play makes no sense for a townie. The fact that he's continued to be spammy and contentless since my early vote on him only serves to steel my resolve. Dude is mafia. Many of them only really make sense in context, though (the previous one might be one of those) With that said, check out his filter from this game as well: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946&user=yamato77&view=allNotice the tone, try to put yourself in the shoes of the player from both alignments. What makes more sense? The timestamps are also helpful, as they give an insight into activity level. Look dude, I made the vote to see what he'd do. If he did nothing else in response, I would have been fine lynching him. But he didn't, and his response was townish, and I dropped a case I admittedly didn't think was that strong after seeing how the thread responded to it. End of story. Meta comparisons are not strong here. I am not playing like I have as town in the past.
So what you're saying is....
let me live another day, and I won't be useless?
Sadly I don't really think I have a choice, but assuming we're both alive tomorrow and you have yet to be of use I'll probably come hunting for your head.
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Rayn your vote is quite wasted atm. I need people to cooperate.
Assuming we leave yamato alive till tomorrow, which in the end is probably not the worst thing in the world if he is indeed scum (but obviously great if he's town) then I would much rather we kill Corazon over cheesecake.
I would not mind killing kush either but that's almost out of spite for him being so utterly bad.
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On January 09 2014 05:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, Cheesecake has to be mafia for his shitty reads and discrediting without any reasoning.
Other than that he has done nothing in this game but had an argument with Artanis, then he had no read on him, then he wanted to lynch him, then he said it was in fact a conversation starter, and then he wanted to lynch him again for no reasoning.
While everything you have said is true...
it's also true about several other players in the game. In fact, neither Artanis nor CC looked particularly great in their back and forth. Neither side was particularly convincing of the other's scumminess.
It's true of fuba too. What has he done?
Or Corazon?
Or Yamato?
Or gumshoe?
Or JAT?
You could make an equally strong argument to kill any of these players. Sadly we need more time to analyze most people like them because we spent all day focusing on yamato and corazon - those were the players we pressured.
Neither player reacted well to the pressure but we can't kill one of the others now, it's too late for today. Today it has to be one of Corazon/Yamato, and if it's not Yamato then I will not support any lynch other than Corazon.
So what will it be?
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On January 09 2014 05:36 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 05:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 09 2014 05:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
Rayn your vote is quite wasted atm. I need people to cooperate.
Assuming we leave yamato alive till tomorrow, which in the end is probably not the worst thing in the world if he is indeed scum (but obviously great if he's town) then I would much rather we kill Corazon over cheesecake.
I would not mind killing kush either but that's almost out of spite for him being so utterly bad. yamato is town and Cheesecake is scum. Cheesecake hasn't contributed anything about anything when anything important has been going on. I've been trying to do anything in this cesspool, I wasn't around for a day because a friend died in a motorcycle accident. You were in extractor and i wasn't active there either. I'm sick of justifying my "not contributing anything" bullshit when that's the reason I wasn't there. It's not alignment indicative, and im fucking town.
I'm sorry for your loss, and I don't want to dictate how you grieve, but it's honestly completely irrelevant to the game.
If it's a serious detriment to your activity then you shouldn't be playing, but that's just my opinion (i.e. hopefully you get replaced)
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I honestly don't think anyone is satisfied with the activity level of the game.
The few players who are here post a metric fuckton, but it doesn't help when the participation rate is 50% and of that rate, half is trash posting.
Pretty much everyone is equally at fault for the trashposting, but there's not much we can do about the inactivity other than simply wait it out. Which unfortunately usually just makes it worse.
Double lynch would be fucking awesome.
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On January 09 2014 05:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'm interested in being active now, and I think JAT / Artanis are good picks for scum. So tell me what you think of either of those lynches, bugs?
I think I've been amply clear about my opinion and honestly any alternative is off the table.
It's not my fault you were not around to participate, so unless you can convince me why lynching cora/yamato is not a good idea or why lynching the others is a better idea then your chance of budging my vote is pretty much 0.
yamato says he is demoralized, Cora is trying to buddy me now, the afkers continue to be afk and we have pretty much no cohesion because no one in this town listens to common sense.
We have a few hours to actually consolidate. I was hoping we would've had more contribution from the less active players by now but clearly that isn't the case. The flip will hopefully give us insight into what really happened today, and I really don't like saying that.
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On January 09 2014 05:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 05:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
In efforts to straighten this thread out from the shitflinging contest that it is: here are reads.
Corazon - Senseless, yelling at people, calling people scum. It's difficult to formulate a decent read on him without factoring in the douchebaggery involved. Do scum act like this often? Or is this something specifically attributed to Corazon? If anyone has a scum corazon game on hand I'd like to see it.
@Cora
I want you to calm down. Give us your top scumreads with 2-3 reasons why for each. Honestly the sense is just strew apart in the thread, maybe it's there if I can get a consolidated post. You've been a bitch to me already for no reason, and I have no problem lynching you. If you're town I want the best reads you can give me.
Yamato - I think he's town. Based on extractor I don't see a reason he cant be town here, and lynching him day 1 is probably a mistake.
JAT - leaning scum. When I was arguing with rayn about the semantic thing (which, by the way, people have to stop saying shit thats confusing) he jumped right on with a few posts to bolster the argument which was clearly false. I also didn't like how he fought with bugs about the kush thing. It also looks like he misinterpreted my-artanis interaction at the beginning of the day which didn't make sense to me.
Rayn - Probably town, though Idk what rayn scum looks like. He tunnels on cora and bullshits at him which is fine (well.. w.e.). I am really hesitant about listening to his reasoning after extractor.
Thrawn - looks town, would bang.
Artanis - Idk where the hell he went after voting me for crap reasons. Tunneled onto me for similarly crap reasons. Would lynch if anyone is down.
So right now I'm looking at JAT/Artanis or a policy of cora/kush. - Read on yamato is not a read. "I can't see why he can't be town" - Read on JAT is so bullshit it probably comes out of CC's ears. That's the worst reasoning for a read i have seen in this game because every single thing is so wrong. - Read on me is not a read. Discrediting me for bullshit reasons, i would have lynched mafia on D2 if idiots didn't hammer yamato. - Read on thrawn is bullshit. - Read on Artanis is bullshit because CC did scummy stuff, then Artanis called him out for it. After that CC changed his reasoning to something else, but later on went back to the original reasoning for no reason. It's just so stupid and every other post the reasoning for Artanis being mafia changes from one thing to another.
Suppose we lynched Cheese.
He flips town.
What happens then?
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wtf??
That's not how this game works. You can't just fucking lynch someone and then not accept that you messed up.
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EPT
