[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia

On January 21 2014 08:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm town. And damn sexy.

On January 21 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:
...
Hapa, do you see yourself getting shot N1 in this game?

I find very few of his questions relevant thus far.

I don't see what he is looking for.

On January 21 2014 13:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm voting for Prome because he immediately asked you a question about me that applied to Wave equally, and then made up some nonsense reasoning as to why it applied to me but not Wave. That's not odd to you?

On January 21 2014 11:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Or rather, it is policy, but certainly not discussion.

On January 21 2014 11:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
If we're talking meta, pressure won't mean anything to sandroba. He'll either play or he won't, and if he's town he'll probably find some scum. People like kita voting for him as a joke will probably not pressure him as much as you seem to think.

On January 22 2014 01:50 kitaman27 wrote:
When I think of a player that gets off to a trolly start as town, Foolishness is one of the first people to come to mind so I disagree with your assessment based on the posts that you have cherry picked.

I'm still content with my vote on him however based on activity.

On January 22 2014 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
I want more austin. Waiter, can I get some more austinmcc plz?

On January 21 2014 10:51 WaveofShadow wrote:

lol I'm really hoping you're not scum kita.
Nah no reason to vote sandroba yet. Not only is there basically nothing to vote him for, I've seen what he's capable of as the game progresses (from PYP) and if he is town and plays this game anything like that, he'll start slow and then start bringing the pain to scum.

On January 21 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:
As far as I can tell, he doesn't respond to pressure on himself this early so it wouldn't matter.
I only offered that as an aside anyway, my main reason for not wanting to vote him is because I literally don't see one.

Hapa, do you see yourself getting shot N1 in this game?

On January 21 2014 11:52 Promethelax wrote:
WoS had a question that feels curious, in my experience curious people are more often town than scum. VE felt fluffy. WoS felt curious.

Reasonable? No.

True? Yes.

Often accurate? Yes.

On January 22 2014 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, I've never seen gonzaw suspicious of me like this.

I can't recall ever seeing gonzaw as scum either.

Coincidence?!?!?!?!?!!?!??!

On January 22 2014 11:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
I just said that I get townie feels from the way Kita is questioning people - that earns him the hold. Prome has done something suspicious, and if he comes back and turns on the town then sure my mind could feasibly be changed, but I'm suspicious of him based on what he's already done in the thread. They're two different scenarios.

On January 22 2014 01:38 VisceraEyes wrote:

This was a terrible reasoning for suspecting me in the first place, but to be fair it looks like a conversation starter more than an actual accusation, which can and does come from both alignments. However as a conversation starter, I do notice a distinct lack of calling me scummy or suspicious, only "disturbing". Could be benign icebreaking, or malicious doubt-weaving. Who can be so sure so early? I think it's suspicious because I think the rest of his play following this has been suspicious to me.

On January 23 2014 04:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not the tone - the act itself. Like, if he were town I feel like rather than do a stream of consciousness thing, he would read and have actual suspicions and post those.

On January 24 2014 03:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
Does no one find it odd how Kita quit doing that Combinatronics thing really fast? Like, he also never mentions it again after that one post. If he's town and had some crazy idea about how to find scum, enough to make a huge-ass post about it, would he not like...try it out? At least a little?

On January 24 2014 03:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
Does no one find it odd how Kita quit doing that Combinatronics thing really fast? Like, he also never mentions it again after that one post. If he's town and had some crazy idea about how to find scum, enough to make a huge-ass post about it, would he not like...try it out? At least a little?

On January 24 2014 03:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also isn't it weird that WoS wasn't on the first list?!!?!?

:/

On January 24 2014 03:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like what's the fucking point of me coming in and trying when people just think it's funny and make jokes and NOT talk about my contributions?

Yeah, this game can eat shit.

On January 24 2014 05:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, let me rephrase what I said earlier. If I were around, I would have switched to EITHER Prom OR sand. But Foolish was on Prom and felt like he was manipulating me so I was hesitating and then I got caught up and never made it back to the thread.

On January 23 2014 06:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm willing to vote him - I'm just hesitant. And Foolish looks like he's trying to manipulate me and it hurts my soul.

On January 24 2014 05:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
If I were around, I would have switched to EITHER Prom OR sand.

But I would have joined in on the shenannies in some form is my point - anyone who has played with me should know that.

On January 22 2014 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Here's something that I still find off about Foolish's reentry post.


This is where he explains his super townread of me right? But look at the bolded bit. He's criticizing me asking marv about my Prom post and the part where I share my observation about our interaction, but says that the TOWNIE bit is the last two sentences, the "fluffy" angry nonsense at the end.

Like, I'm trying to wrap my head around this. He thinks I'm town, presumably he knows that I share at least Promethelax as a scumread, but he tries to lightly discredit me while calling me townie? And after the entire post, I STILL don't know if he actually READ my post on Promethelax. Something doesn't add up. I'm missing something, somewhere.

On January 22 2014 10:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, if he'd provided some context with it that would be one thing.

"It looks forced, as if he didn't have anything to say but felt like he had to say something"

or

"It looks out of place, as if he remembered he hadn't mentioned X and just threw it in there because he was expected to"

or something like that. But just saying those words is pretty silly, especially when you're talking about one of your strongest townreads, you know?

On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote:
Here's what I think is going on this game.

There are quite a few questionable people in this game, but by eliminating some obvious town players things start to make more sense.

Towniest of towns
Hapa
VE
Kitaman

Hapa is by far the most town person in this game? Why, put simply if you read his filter he is here, he is active and he is pushing pro-town agendas. This is seen because he is generating conversation, trying to organize the town and get everyone on the same page, and questioning suspicious players where appropriate. This is not a matter of debate if you have read the thread.

Kitaman is similar in matter and this has already been brought to light by a few players. Actually when I started reading the game yesterday his posting reminded me a lot of myself. Slight trolly attitude to try to get things moving, but when push came to shove he was there to call people out on their shit. Now, if you want to read into that and say, "But Foolishness, Kitaman is usually a strong analyzer, posting paragraphs of information and analysis about a person's behavior and actions" I got nothing to say back about that yet. Though I'm sure time will confirm what I think here.

The thing with VE is that yes, on his own some of his posts are suspicious. This one in particular made me raise an eyebrow:
+ Show Spoiler +
where the first two paragraphs seem really out of place and forced, though the last two sentences of the post read very town.

However I think if you just read through his filter and analyze it as a whole there's nothing to be afraid of. Is he pushing any sort of mafia agenda? No. Does it feel like he doesn't have the town's best interest in mind? No. Does it feel like he's actually trying to figure things out? Yes.

Now I can see why some people have shed some suspicion on him (unlike anyone calling Hapa or Kita mafia), but he just does not feel mafia, and he's definitely interested in the game.

Questionable players
Austin
sandroba

marvellosity
Holyflare
Gonzaw

This is roughly in order of most to least town. Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread, and it is also obvious that if they continue their activity then they are town. If they keep going afk for long periods of time then start to worry. But I don't feel like that will happen.

The following 3 people are all in the ? category. Marvellosity and Holyflare in particular because for all that they have said I don't feel they have really contributed much. Even as I'm writing this I'm thinking back, "what has marvellosity or holyflare done this game", and I cannot remember a single post they have made. That's a bad sign. Anything mafia indicative off the bat? No so much, but then seem to be here without actually being here.

Gonzaw is only questionable and not mafia because of his recent vote on me. As kitaman properly pointed out, gonzaw brought up a lot of new information about the case on me. That's good and productive. But as he also pointed out, gonzaw just kinda did nothing with it. "Oh here you go I did some research, now don't mind me anymore let me go be trolly and lurk some more" is that kinda vibe I got from that.

mafia
Promethelax
WaveOfShadow

I will go into a little more detail here.

What about this post is good? He says generic things that anybody can say. Also the "Let's do something" seems incredibly forced. What does he hope to accomplish by saying that? I don't know (most likely he's mafia) and it feels like he's trying very hard to sound like he's vested in the game (when all he would have to do is just post whatever his thoughts are).

And then there's this post as well.

Which fails to do nothing but ask more questions of which he never followed through on (neither of them really followed through on to be honest), when he could do have done something like actively push Promethelax to say something of substance.

The thing about Promethelax is that his first post is a big pile of words and nobody said anything about it besides WoS which was just a passing remark. Here's the post again:
+ Show Spoiler +
Promethelax even admits that his post is awful and that we should call him out on it. Sounds great to me! This kinda bait is definitely a mafia trait and if he thinks he's posting bad then we should definitely lynch him for it. The reason being, if he knows his post his bad why is he making it in the first place? His initial post accomplishes nothing and says nothing and only adds fluff to the thread. I am also bothered by his most recent thread post:


Because all his reads feel very convenient. There is nothing in his filter that gives us new information or his original thoughts.

I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, honestly Promethelax is the best lynch right now because the case on him is the strongest, but I need to hear opinions on WaveOfShadow while we have the time.

---

Who we are lynching today: Promethelax, WaveOfShadow.

If they died probably not a huge loss: marvellosity, HolyFlare, Gonzaw

Everyone else deserves to live another day at the least.

On January 23 2014 06:03 Foolishness wrote:

No, but Marvellosity is known for getting things done on day 1.

On January 23 2014 06:51 gonzaw wrote:
Is there ANYBODY who believes Holy might be a good D1 lynch? Even if you don't believe he might be a good lynch (because of replacement stuff), did that last post of his convince you he's town? Did it have an impact on your read of him? If so why?

marvy, you said you would be thinking about Holy after you come back.....so? You are just focusing on Foo now.

On January 23 2014 07:04 austinmcc wrote:
How do we know sandro is replacing out? Did i miss something?

On January 23 2014 07:41 VisceraEyes wrote:
What ranks him higher than sandroba who is A) a lurker and B) trying to get you lynched? Is it just the fact that he's set to be lynched?

On January 24 2014 05:19 VisceraEyes wrote:

I'm not walking into anything, I'm literally trying to have a conversation. You're being an asshole for no reason. I'm saying please stop. Now please stop.

On January 25 2014 02:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, I would contribute, but I've been told that my suspects are off limits so I'm kinda at a loss as to what I even CAN do to prove my innocence. Maybe a story?

On January 23 2014 08:42 gonzaw wrote:
The only thing I'm kind of scared is if actually Prome is mafia with sandro and this was some weird gambit, in which they planned on actually getting Foolishness lynched instead.

I mean, you do remember Prome's "We policy lynch lurkers no matter what!" line at the beginning of the game, and he then not doing anything at all regarding sandro right?

Oh god....oh god oh man oh god oh man :O O:

...lol. But other than that, I think we are on good tracks

On January 23 2014 00:52 Promethelax wrote:


There isn't much to address in this case. Which is why I got all snarky and called it a 'case' in my earlier post. Fool doesn't like that my early game play was early gmae-ish and, since I have addressed my reasoning for that play and I still believe it was both good and the right play I can't say much about it here.

Yes my first post was bad. It always is. Which is why I'm aware of it. Foolish has played at least one and maybe more games with me and should know that a bad first post is as much my meta as calling VE a butt licker is (I"m sorry WoS! I know I said I'd be nice but I had to slip one in).

I do find Foolish townier from this post since his reads are generally good but his lack of sight when it comes to Gonzaw is worrying. He places Kita and VE waaaaaay too high and Gonzaw much too low in a way that has me worried since, as Supersoft once said to me, when you are in a game with a bunch of good players you can tell the scum because he is the one whose reads don't line up with everyone else'.

I also don't see the reason to attack WoS and just as Fool thinks my targets were easy so were his. He went for the lynch d'jour (me) and the one guy he had called scum earlier (WoS). It seems almost too easy a big post and his lack of other contribution means that while he has taken himself off the table as a good lynch he has not in any way convinced me of his townieness.

On January 23 2014 07:22 Promethelax wrote:


I keep wanting to think you are town but you come up with bullshit like this that isn't even remotely true. I cannot believe that town foolishness actually believes these things as they are not remotely true.

##unvote
##vote: foolishness

I simply cannot connect the idea of foolishness being a good town player and him being town while saying things so blatantly false about so many players in this game.

On January 23 2014 07:28 Promethelax wrote:


Yes I think holy is a good lynch.

My good lynch list is: holy, fool, Kita, sand, Austin. Unfortunately none of them are making me jump out of my skin and scream: scum! They are all scummy to the point of being willing to lynch them.

On January 23 2014 07:30 Promethelax wrote:


Gah! This fucking post. Austin is so disconnected from this game.

I know it consolidation time so I don't want to start a new thing on Austin but fuck do I want to lynch him based on this post.

On January 23 2014 07:44 Promethelax wrote:


I find fool likelier scum than sand. Sand pulls this shit as town while fool hasn't done so in my experience. I wouldn't be unhappy with a sand list, it isn't my preference but I wouldn't hate it.

On January 25 2014 04:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, and he was last on the wagon - whether it was a minute or 10 minutes, he voted last on the wagon and was NOT the hammer vote on sandroba.

On January 25 2014 04:40 VisceraEyes wrote:

This is Holy's last content post. I very seriously doubt that, as scum, his last act was to bus Sandroba before replacing out.

On January 25 2014 04:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
I was making porkchops.

On January 25 2014 04:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, and he was last on the wagon - whether it was a minute or 10 minutes, he voted last on the wagon and was NOT the hammer vote on sandroba.

On January 25 2014 07:08 VisceraEyes wrote:


I mean if it was his last act in the game then I don't see why not - especially if you're talking about the 2-3 vote being onto prom, as if this is plurality lynch then the other guy would have been voted off anyway.

On January 25 2014 07:15 marvellosity wrote:
Does anyone else find that Toad not reading holy's posts sketchy, or am i making something out of nothing?

On January 21 2014 08:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm town. And damn sexy.

On January 24 2014 05:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
The important thing to remember when considering my read of Foolishness is that I know that I'm town.

On January 24 2014 05:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
All I know for sure is that I'm town

On January 24 2014 05:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
You're removing my opinion, but I'm town giving more power to scum.

On January 25 2014 07:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not that I think they're meaningless, but I know that at least I'm town

On January 25 2014 07:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
But the principal is the same marv - you're telling me that a townToad who knows he's town and knows that Holyflare is town could NOT read the thread and anytime he sees a Holyflare post say "Welp no scum here, moving on" and just not read the post?

Are we talking about the same Toad?

On January 26 2014 03:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Nah I'm good on Wave. Like, Hapa died in a game with marv, Foolishness, kitaman etc. There must be a reason. I can't imagine that reason is framing Wave, but I concede that it's possible.

On January 26 2014 03:47 VisceraEyes wrote:

I have this thing about calling people town who think I'm town. I'm trying to not take that into account.

On January 26 2014 04:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's a matter of priorities. My first priority is NOT to stay alive. That's scum's first priority. My first priority is to find scum. And I've been trying, but I get shit on every time I try. EVERY TIME. Can you not see how this is frustrating to me?

On January 24 2014 11:26 Foolishness wrote:

I brought this up in my earlier post as well. The options are limited and are not congruent with the rest of the thread.

WoS or VE today.

##Vote: WaveOfShadow

On January 25 2014 10:49 Foolishness wrote:

Me explaining why you are mafia and should be lynched:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137&currentpage=53#1056

What I said about VE on day 1 still applies:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137&currentpage=23#447

But as I said I would be fine lynching either of you.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137&currentpage=63#1246

Now that I gave you indisputable evidence that Promethelax is town (regardless of what you think I am) who is your mafia team?

As a side note, for the list of reasons I want to lynch you we can also add "diverting the town with strange conspiracy theories about what happened on the day 1 lynch".

On January 25 2014 10:15 Foolishness wrote:

That's not a silly question. I believe it is you [note: you=WoS] and Toad. Though I go back and forth on whether it's Toad or VE.

Kitaman went after sandroba a lot on day 1. He called him out early, voted on him (twice) and pushed his case. I don't see him doing that to his own scumbuddy (moreso since sandroba was inactive so his case just kept looking better over time).

On January 23 2014 08:42 gonzaw wrote:
The only thing I'm kind of scared is if actually Prome is mafia with sandro and this was some weird gambit, in which they planned on actually getting Foolishness lynched instead.

I mean, you do remember Prome's "We policy lynch lurkers no matter what!" line at the beginning of the game, and he then not doing anything at all regarding sandro right?

Oh god....oh god oh man oh god oh man :O O:

...lol. But other than that, I think we are on good tracks

On January 26 2014 06:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
I would vote for Kita if the "confirmed" people wanted to not lynch VE. Toad too maybe. WoS too maybe. Looking at Foolish' posts makes me not want to vote for him though, and Toad's explanations make me like the whole thing less.

I think Kita is my preference though.

On January 26 2014 06:10 VisceraEyes wrote:

I just stated who I would lynch. That's not even close to "anyone but me".

On January 26 2014 06:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
Talk all the shit you want, this is the second day in a row I show up and try and contribute and get "look so scummy lol he's trying that's so fucking scummy"

On February 05 2014 02:37 Promethelax wrote:
It is posts like that which make it impossible to be mad at Toad.