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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 08:26 gonzaw wrote: Dunno right now. Usually pretty late to make up my mind and not a big vote swapper.austin, marv, who do you want to lynch this D1 right now? Or maybe you don't have enough info to decide that yet? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
1) Gonzaw's Cases: I'll talk about Foolishness below, mostly because of the recent wall-o-text. As for VE, I'm liking VE for town right now. This is the post that really made me change my mind on him: On January 21 2014 13:16 VisceraEyes wrote: I think if he's town he's biased and it's bullshit to be so biased already, but whatever. It makes him more likely to be scum to me, but no, I'm reading him as town presently. This is a mentality spot on for a townie who thinks he's being unfairly tunneled. Very genuine, and something I'd expect from a town VE. As for Holyflare, I'm leaning scum on him presently. The points highlighting the emotional "oddities" of his case are really good. The strangest thing about his filter for me is how quickly he dropped his tunnel on me. He makes his initial case on me... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=16#318 ...then all it takes is one reply from me... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=21#419 ...and then his suspicions are gone! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=22#427 The lack of any pursuit, or really any confirmation bias whatsoever is strange. It's very uncharacteristic of a townie to give up on a case so easily, and that's seemingly what Holy did. Also, one interesting thing about Holy/Foolishness association - while Gonzaw claims that they both could be scum, I think Holy's post (if he's scum) suggests the opposite. Holy doesn't seem very interested in Foolishness' allignment at all. which would suggest that Fool is town. Anyway this is associative crap and nothing I'd lynch anyone on, but worth musing about nonetheless. 2) Foolishness's Post Yeah, so I don't think it's a town-tell (as many people have mentioned before). His post in Parallel Worlds comes to mind, that he can fake these larger posts as scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387370¤tpage=31#607 I will say though that I agree with a lot of it. Mostly that Prome and WoS's contributions after their early-game posting have fallen off a cliff. There's nothing in their filter besides early-game fluff yet, and looking back on things, their early-game contributions weren't all that impressive. I'm not 100% convinced that either are scum yet, but at this present time, they'd make good lynches for their lack of meaningful contributions to the thread. As for who I'd prefer between Holy/Prome/WoS? Not sure yet, and we have 24 hours to decide atleast. As for other players, I'm currently null on Foolishness, Marv, and Sandro. Town-reads on everyone else. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On January 22 2014 08:27 Hapahauli wrote: 2) Foolishness's Post Yeah, so I don't think it's a town-tell (as many people have mentioned before). His post in Parallel Worlds comes to mind, that he can fake these larger posts as scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387370¤tpage=31#607 I will say though that I agree with a lot of it. Mostly that Prome and WoS's contributions after their early-game posting have fallen off a cliff. There's nothing in their filter besides early-game fluff yet, and looking back on things, their early-game contributions weren't all that impressive. I'm not 100% convinced that either are scum yet, but at this present time, they'd make good lynches for their lack of meaningful contributions to the thread. As for who I'd prefer between Holy/Prome/WoS? Not sure yet, and we have 24 hours to decide atleast. As for other players, I'm currently null on Foolishness, Marv, and Sandro. Town-reads on everyone else. To the bolded: that post in Parallels was a big load of bollocks though. Like he was mafia because everything in the post was bullshit and he didn't call out the genuinely scummy people/defended them. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Content's good though. The only objections I have are the reads on gonzaw (who seems absurdly townie) and sandro (who's opening hasn't really been "strong" as suggested by Fool). | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote: Anything in particular that sandro posted within the last little bit to have you move him up this way? A lot of your other reads are spelled out, sandro and I are lumped together.Questionable players Austin sandroba marvellosity Holyflare Gonzaw This is roughly in order of most to least town. Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread, and it is also obvious that if they continue their activity then they are town. If they keep going afk for long periods of time then start to worry. But I don't feel like that will happen. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote: The following 3 people are all in the ? category. Marvellosity and Holyflare in particular because for all that they have said I don't feel they have really contributed much. Even as I'm writing this I'm thinking back, "what has marvellosity or holyflare done this game", and I cannot remember a single post they have made. That's a bad sign. Anything mafia indicative off the bat? No so much, but then seem to be here without actually being here. What do you think about what I posted about Holy? What do you think of him defending you so much from me? What about people saying "D1 is marv's weakest cycle"? Marv initially voted and went after you. Is that alignment-indicative at all? Or are you just going to ignore it? In fact, are you going to ignore people going against you (even your town read kita)? You know, there are cases and shit written about you. Gonzaw is only questionable and not mafia because of his recent vote on me. As kitaman properly pointed out, gonzaw brought up a lot of new information about the case on me. That's good and productive. But as he also pointed out, gonzaw just kinda did nothing with it. "Oh here you go I did some research, now don't mind me anymore let me go be trolly and lurk some more" is that kinda vibe I got from that. It's weird that I'm more town when I'm voting you than when I am not. From your POV you are town, how come when I AM voting you I am townier than when I am not? I'd like to know if you can justify that "vibe" you got from me. I tend to be very specific about my activity levels, in fact to not arouse those "he's lurking" accusations. If I go to sleep/work/see a football match/etc I state so. I guess you can say I can lie about it like BH does, but do you believe that? What about this post is good? He says generic things that anybody can say. Also the "Let's do something" seems incredibly forced. What does he hope to accomplish by saying that? I don't know (most likely he's mafia) and it feels like he's trying very hard to sound like he's vested in the game (when all he would have to do is just post whatever his thoughts are). On January 21 2014 15:41 Foolishness wrote: This game just got a whole lot easier. ##Vote: WaveOfShadow From these 2 posts of yours, I seem to be getting conflicted feelings. On your 2nd one, you are SUPER SURE WOS is scum (that's the only reason to post what you did). On the first post of yours, you seem way less sure he's scum (if it weren't for that "most likely he's mafia" caption, I would have thought they were just fleeting suspicions and nothing beyond that). Also......yeah....you could have posted this when you made that vote couldn't you? Kind of anti-town to post the reasoning for your vote 12 hours after you make it don't you think? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
gonzaw: Holy or Wave. Dunno about Prome, I don't have the issues other ppl seem to. Apparently I'm seeing ghosts with kita, I'll come back to that (or not) later. The Holy emotional stuff is pretty good as mentioned | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:52 gonzaw wrote: VE, so what happened to your Foo' read bro? It was never a read - I specifically didn't try and read alignment from Foolish based on our interaction SPECIFICALLY because it looked like he hadn't read the thread and I wanted to see what he posted next. His most recent post seems reasonable enough, and I'm not interested in lynching it depending on what he does going forward. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 22 2014 08:42 marvellosity wrote: I did play in that game so I remember ^^. And yes it's the content. Enough for me to not want to lynch him atm. gonzaw: Holy or Wave. Dunno about Prome, I don't have the issues other ppl seem to. Apparently I'm seeing ghosts with kita, I'll come back to that (or not) later. The Holy emotional stuff is pretty good as mentioned I don't really understand your suspicions on Kita. None of these by themselves really suggests that much, but there's so many of them. All leading, or weirdly phrased, or kinda obvious questions. Odd. This is certainly "odd", but I don't see how its a scumtell. Hell townies use leading questions all the time. I love 'em myself ^^ What I actually find suspicious of kita in light of recent posts is how he's attacking gonzaw. gonzaw has been looking pretty town to me lately, he's eager, lots of big posts, he's commenting on a lot of players, he's suspicious of a lot of players with decent grounds, and yet kita is nitpicking at him for his vote on Foolish compared to kita's. That's unnatural and it's not how I'm viewing the game and it doesn't feel right at all. Is Kita attacking gonzaw? I see him addressing gonzaw's cases (and criticizing them), but nothing I could construct as kita being suspicious of gonzaw. Also Kita apparently still hasn't read the Holyflare post, which is backed up by the posting order. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:00 gonzaw wrote: Another guy I have my eyes on is Holy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=16#318 This post seems odd to me. He just gets into the thread, and yet seems angry for some reason? He seems angry at Hapa I dunno why. Most of his post revolves around some small unimportant shit. He "pressures" Hapa because he didn't accuse Foo for Foo's town read on him, and because Hapa apparently backed down his "pressure" of sandro. I mean, those are valid concerns to pressure, but the way Holy does is odd as hell. He pushes it like it's some super awesome case. He addresses Hapa like he's cornered scum. There are 2 things I find scummy about this: 1)He's super pissed of for no reason at all (I mean...read his all-caps sentence). A townie wouldn't be this pissed off on their 1st post against someone they haven't interacted with at the moment, and someone that didn't fuck up or did anything wrong (Hapa was actually pretty active by then, and apparently "pro-town", so why get so angry at him?). Unfounded anger and aggressiveness are mafia traits, either because he feels angry or mad at being scum, or because it's a scum agenda he's pushing. 2)The bolded bit seems too extreme to me, and also includes the fastest backpedalling I've seen. He considers Hapa not caring about sandro anymore. I mean, he even got that wrong (Hapa's "pressure sandro" is actually a line of reasoning to pressure WOS and kita; Hapa doesn't think himself that everybody should vote and pressure sandro until his head explodes or something). Saying that "This isn't something a townie mindset does at all" makes no sense. But then he doesn't keep that up and backpedals saying he doesn't want to be "hasty" or some shit. This post reads all wrong to me. Also, should I point the obvious contradictions?: For someone so HELLBENT on not letting any lurker go by and pressure them, he sure does let lurker Foolishness go by without pressuring him. Foo has some (founded) accusations against him, and he's lurking. Based on Holy's previous post, this is all good and dandy isn't it! Well, apparently not, since he refuses to acknowledge anything being said about Foo', and clearly states that he doesn't want to participate in a "futile" discussion where he has no "attitude towards foolishness" and is relentlessly going against him for doing what he actually said we should be doing (i.e pressuring the lurkers and not letting them go by even if they get "good later on" and stuff?) This makes no sense in context with his previous post. Also, apparently he thinks that these kind of contradictions "isn't something a townie mindset does at all" (which is what he did to Hapa before). So basically, he is calling himself scum. There's also the fact he thinks it's fine to pressure sandro but not Foolishness, and doesn't state many reasons for that. From his perspective there should be no difference between sandro and Foolishness (they are 2 lurkers who barely post and nobody knows much about them), however in Holy's posts there is a clear difference between them, where he wants to deflect attention from Foo and into sandro. Anyways, I don't want to get too much carried on, but right now i'm leaning towards Foo and Holy being scum, with VE coming up third. I'm open to discussions, and people throwing their ideas (and more importantly, their votes) based on this. I still want to keep my vote on Foo' first, and keep him up for lynch (unless other stuff happens). The ending of this post is singlehandedly the most misconstrued post against me I've seen in a long while. Here's why: When I ran through the thread people were calling hapa "pro-town" yada yada, the stuff you were all saying was "lovely hapa please show us the way" so when I see the things that stand out, like accepting free town reads yet pushing a question on something different then I will of course pressure it. The way I write is no different from how I have written in any game. In fact, you spent so much time looking into Foolishness' filter for his 4 posts but you have written at much more length about me and haven't bothered to check how I write, why is that? There is no anger in my typing, I use caps lock for emphasis on points I deem important. If I was angry I would be swearing. You also mention me backpeddling, yet, you don't understand why? If a player contradicts themself in such a gross fashion then there is a thought process behind it, somewhere. The action itself is scummy but the thought process (as revealed by hapa in his reply to me) was not. There is nothing wrong with being hesitant about a piece of information you display to the thread. The remaining quotes are so heavily taken out of context and misconstrued that I find it hard to believe that you follow the train of thought you have written. I quite clearly state that no player should go unpushed and many people had already mentioned foolishness by name and directed questions at him. If there was no response what further pressure can you possibly add at that point? The answer is quite clearly none and that is why I find it hard to believe that you would invest so much time into pushing and researching foolishness for 4 posts. Also: There's also the fact he thinks it's fine to pressure sandro but not Foolishness, and doesn't state many reasons for that. From his perspective there should be no difference between sandro and Foolishness (they are 2 lurkers who barely post and nobody knows much about them), however in Holy's posts there is a clear difference between them, where he wants to deflect attention from Foo and into sandro. Your return post stated you would ignore the rest of the thread apart from discussion about marv and foolishness, I simply said that foolishness had not posted but neither had sandroba so I was curious why you had picked one lurker over the other. At what point do I mention pressure on either of them is bad? @Hapa's critique As for Holyflare, I'm leaning scum on him presently. The points highlighting the emotional "oddities" of his case are really good. The strangest thing about his filter for me is how quickly he dropped his tunnel on me. He makes his initial case on me... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=16#318 ...then all it takes is one reply from me... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=21#419 ...and then his suspicions are gone! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=22#427 The lack of any pursuit, or really any confirmation bias whatsoever is strange. It's very uncharacteristic of a townie to give up on a case so easily, and that's seemingly what Holy did. Yet another person misconstruing intentions. There is nowhere in my posts where I have indicated that my suspicions have gone anywhere. I am quite capable of making a train of thought as scum and following it into the ground. I have many games in my profile where you can check this (why has nobody done this yet?). The things people are saying about me are quite odd and are evidence that people have only read the case and not the actual situations around them. For a person that questions everything hapa, why have you not questioned where my read has gone and instead used it as evidence to bolster a completely fallacious case made by gonzaw? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
@marv: + Show Spoiler + Well marv, funnily enough I have another "wacky" annecdote I had while rereading the thread that made me think kita is town. When I started reading the thread, I thought Hapa made little sense in his pursue of kita and kita's "joke" vote of sandro. Then kita made this post and I completely agreed with it at the time: On January 21 2014 12:16 kitaman27 wrote: If you start calling people scummy and vote for someone off their first post, people won't take you serious later on. I certainly wouldn't do something like that! The person I find scummiest so far is probably Hapa. The reason to random vote sandroba is because he is incredibly lazy and notorious for getting away without posting on day one. Hapa appears to identify that it would be a good idea to try to apply pressure to a slow starter, yet later suggests that he can't understand my objective. Rather than trying to contribute to the pressure, he is satisfied with asking serious questions such as "Why is he a great vote?", when I think it is pretty obvious that there isn't any content in the thread to justify it. Then you notice kita stops mentioning Hapa at all basically. I mean, you could think of that as mafia behaviour! He thought someone was scum and never mentioned him again! But then again, the same thing happened to me. Hapa got townier and townier so I just stopped noticing him and paying attention to him (and started noticing VE, WOS, Foo, etc), which mirrors kita's thread behaviour. Kind of funny, something you could see as super scummy behaviour actually makes him town... ...I hope I'm not wrong. If he's scum he's eerily good at getting inside my head O_o | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
For a person that questions everything hapa, why have you not questioned where my read has gone and instead used it as evidence to bolster a completely fallacious case made by gonzaw? I just did. Where did it go? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 22 2014 09:12 marvellosity wrote: hapa? kita was clearly suspicious of gonzaw earlier on (aka "contributions without being a contribution") and to then keep nitpicking at gonzaw's case when kita's vote is on the same person is... strange to say the least Oh ok. Must have missed something then. 'suppose I'll wait for Kita to respond. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=19#369 explaining his previous post | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:42 marvellosity wrote: Foolish I'm curious if you've looked at any of WoS's meta at all? Yes I did that yesterday when I first accused him. However I did not find anything really damning on that front. He's only had one game as mafia here and there weren't any glaring similarities to that. For example, when WoS was mafia he swore a ton (just skim through his posts and you will see that) but when he's town that kind of attitude is absent. Also feels like he might be slightly more trolly when he's mafia. I'm still suspicious of him and want to clear the air on him now and not later because as I said in my previous posts he made a lot of generic statements and had opportunities to answer questions and instead only gave more questions to the thread. And a part of me does feel that his interaction with Promethelax says that at most one of them is mafia. I may be reading into that too much. On January 22 2014 08:00 gonzaw wrote: I thought my previous sexy posts already made me town by then kita  Hmm, okay, I think we might get a little bit off track with all the discussions, questions, and shit going on. Personally, I want these: 1)Foolishness to do something more (I'm not very much convinced by his post. I read the Champion's Game as well marv). Notice how there's a lack of defense for his "horrible" posts. 2)Get some consensus on Holy based on what I posted 3)I guess some real talk about who to lynch this D1, not just fleeting questions and suspicions. All my posts and every word I write has a distinct purpose. I don't have time to waste. At this moment I feel that Promethelax or HolyFlare should be lynched today. Gonzaw's catch on Holyflare's contradiction is really damning and I'm almost ready to pull the trigger just on that. HolyFlare's defense did feel a bit contrived and forced? He did bring up some good points but at the same time I don't feel like he said all that much. That may just be confirmation bias at this point though. I had HolyFlare on my question mark list since yesterday because as I said it felt like he was here posting but I couldn't remember anything he did and that is troublesome. Gonzaw I brought my arguments against you when you brought forth the analysis against me and I still stand by what I said. However I would not lynch you since you are actually here and posting and bring new information to the thread (and not just information about Holyflare either). There's no reason to doubt your alignment at this point especially if this posting rate keeps up. Same with Austin as well. I still stand by that marvellosity is a big mystery this game. He's not our lynch today but everyone should have at least one eye on him. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 22 2014 08:53 Holyflare wrote: When I ran through the thread people were calling hapa "pro-town" yada yada, the stuff you were all saying was "lovely hapa please show us the way" so when I see the things that stand out, like accepting free town reads yet pushing a question on something different then I will of course pressure it There is a difference between "Everybody thinks this guy is so townie, but how can they be so sure? These things stand out i'll pressure him" and "Hmm, wait this guy kind of contradicted himself about sandro and didn't ask Foo about his town read on him. HE IS SCUM HE MUST DIE UNLESS HE EXPLAINS HIMSELF" (dramatization). The way I write is no different from how I have written in any game. In fact, you spent so much time looking into Foolishness' filter for his 4 posts but you have written at much more length about me and haven't bothered to check how I write, why is that? I already know about Foo's games for a while (been using the meta argument against him for a while now). And his filters are pretty short and I know what to expect in each (I've played with him in several of those). I know nothing about you, what to expect, etc, and I think I had enough in this thread to go check your meta. If you think it's important, sure, I'll go check your other games when I have time later. There is no anger in my typing, I use caps lock for emphasis on points I deem important. If I was angry I would be swearing. You also mention me backpeddling, yet, you don't understand why? If a player contradicts themself in such a gross fashion then there is a thought process behind it, somewhere. The action itself is scummy but the thought process (as revealed by hapa in his reply to me) was not. There is nothing wrong with being hesitant about a piece of information you display to the thread. Hmm, I'll check your other games for the "anger" thing. It's more unneeded aggression than anger, or being needlessly confrontational. You know your "contradiction" holds no water right? It makes no sense for you to get such heavy suspicions on him solely based on something that doesn't even exist and is apparent just by reading his post. The remaining quotes are so heavily taken out of context and misconstrued that I find it hard to believe that you follow the train of thought you have written. I quite clearly state that no player should go unpushed and many people had already mentioned foolishness by name and directed questions at him. If there was no response what further pressure can you possibly add at that point? The answer is quite clearly none and that is why I find it hard to believe that you would invest so much time into pushing and researching foolishness for 4 posts. Yeah, this post you have here doesn't make me think that at all: On January 21 2014 23:07 Holyflare wrote: Why Foolishness over sandroba? They have both posted nothing. Your goal is clearly to lynch a lurker today so why are you going to ignore the rest of what has happened on day 1 when your intentions are already set in stone? I hadn't even made my "big" post, and you had already started defending Foo and trying to put attention on sandro. You even go to great lengths to basically try and guess what's on my mind by saying stuff like "Your goal is clearly to lynch a lurker today" when I had said nothing at all basically. If there was no response what further pressure can you possibly add at that point? You mean besides making a (IMO strong) meta case against him that shows you why he's scum? Marv and kita just parked their votes on him, marv pressuring him a little bit. I can't see how you can think that at all. Also: Your return post stated you would ignore the rest of the thread apart from discussion about marv and foolishness, I simply said that foolishness had not posted but neither had sandroba so I was curious why you had picked one lurker over the other. At what point do I mention pressure on either of them is bad? It's implicit. I say I want Foo lynched, I give reasoning for it, I "pressure" him. You then start defending Foolishness (like that time you basically said "That's surely the reason why he voted WOS of course!"), while also ignoring my actual arguments against him. In my 1st post, I ONLY said "foolishness should be the D1 lynch". You somehow extended that into "Foolishness is a lurker, so I'll just randomly choose him as the D1 lynch" and went with that apparently? Although I get the feeling this has more to do with you trying to antagonize me at that time rather than sandro, or maybe even Foo'. Your Hapa "case" still doesn't make sense, and how you'd aggressively/confrontationally/etc call him scum over something that: 1-Is not true 2-Even if it was true it'd be null as fuck You going against me is still somewhat suspicious in my mind, since you defend Foo and my attack/pressure/etc on him without even addressing it at all (i.e you never mention my actual "case" at all, whether it has 4 posts or not, you just mention it as "futile" way later). Hmm, I'll try reading those games of yours. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 22 2014 09:20 marvellosity wrote: Holyflare is Hapa mafia? I'm confused about this as well. In the beginning of his defense, apparently my reply made sense and was satisfactory... There is no anger in my typing, I use caps lock for emphasis on points I deem important. If I was angry I would be swearing. You also mention me backpeddling, yet, you don't understand why? If a player contradicts themself in such a gross fashion then there is a thought process behind it, somewhere. The action itself is scummy but the thought process (as revealed by hapa in his reply to me) was not. There is nothing wrong with being hesitant about a piece of information you display to the thread. Yet... Yet another person misconstruing intentions. There is nowhere in my posts where I have indicated that my suspicions have gone anywhere. I am quite capable of making a train of thought as scum and following it into the ground. I have many games in my profile where you can check this (why has nobody done this yet?). The things people are saying about me are quite odd and are evidence that people have only read the case and not the actual situations around them. For a person that questions everything hapa, why have you not questioned where my read has gone and instead used it as evidence to bolster a completely fallacious case made by gonzaw? Wat. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 22 2014 09:22 Foolishness wrote: All my posts and every word I write has a distinct purpose. I don't have time to waste. I hope you have some more time to waste on me, because I'm keeping my vote on you until I'm convinced you are town or that someone else is more likely scum than you. You could try expanding more on Holy for example, maybe with new stuff that makes you think he's scum. You can also start by answering some of the stuff I asked you about (those which you haven't answered already). W need Prome and WOS in here... ...and VE. Where the hell did VE go? I'm not entirely sure where you guys get your town read on him. He's, at best, unreadable to me. Can't really figure out how some of you can get that much of a town read on him. Hapa, marv, etc, can you back some of your stuff up with posts from his previous games or something perhaps? For example, this... On January 22 2014 08:27 Hapahauli wrote: This is a mentality spot on for a townie who thinks he's being unfairly tunneled. Very genuine, and something I'd expect from a town VE. ...doesn't really convince me. For instance, ever since this post ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=15#293 ) he hasn't had a single suspicion on anybody, yet had 1 more page in his filter of posts (he backs out of his Prome scum read) | ||
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