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[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia - Page 118

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 18:19 GMT
#2341
On January 29 2014 03:17 Toadesstern wrote:
actually that has to wait 30 minutes or so... I'm out of water and don't want to... whatever the word for starving but with water is in english. But you can think about it for the time being.
thirsty, dehydrated, parched,
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 18:19 GMT
#2342
afk 15ish gotta get more brussels sprouts before the roads get icy
Fe fi fo fum.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 28 2014 18:33 GMT
#2343
On January 29 2014 03:19 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2014 03:17 Toadesstern wrote:
actually that has to wait 30 minutes or so... I'm out of water and don't want to... whatever the word for starving but with water is in english. But you can think about it for the time being.
thirsty, dehydrated, parched,

is it bad that I would have been able to say 喉が乾きました but wasn't able to come up with either "die of thirst" or "to be parched" ?
On January 29 2014 03:18 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2014 03:15 Toadesstern wrote:
austin can I convince you to vote Foolishness?

We've got cookies over here. And you know what happened last time people didn't accept cookies, right?
So basicly here's what I think. I agree with your "it's probably between Foo/Marv/Prome", it's what I've been getting at as well.
Marv isn't going to get lynched today, agree?
Foolishness has been getting heat for a reason this past week. I'm on him, [green]gonzaw[/freen] concluded with "foo buddying toad and using him, foo mafia", Kita who we both agree to be town most likely is on Foo and Marv, the guy known for bussing without any kind of bad conscience is on Foo. Prom as well (i think? votecount please).
I like this lynch. This lynch is awesome.
You really think we should be voting prom instead or what's up?
If you agree with that set of 3, then your options are

foolishness/marv
foolishness/prome
marv/prome

out of those three, i think the LEAST likely is foolishness/marv. Marv pushed him a little D1, they didn't play any games where they made cases on each other, fought like hell, lynched one and tried to get the other looking good, blah blah.

I think that if you're on board with those three options, then yes, you should vote prome. Because I don't see a less likely scenario than Foolishness/marv, in which case prome is the common denominator. Unless you disagree on what scenario seems wonky.

##vote: Promethelax

I now know what the misunderstanding (?) between WoS and me earlier was about. Yeah I agree if this is about who you're going to filterdive first as in who you want to focus on the most and it makes perfectly sense. I don't agree with voting based on it.
I didn't yolovote Kita earlier either when I was at "well it's either Foo+Kita or Kita+WoS" but went back and checked his filter to make sure I'm right.

Out of the things we have on those 3 I'd really say prome is the one that has the weakest things attributed to him. Might be I'm a bit biased because Marv went after me all the time but I do think so.
I do agree with the basic assumption. I do however not take it for granted as much as I like it.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 28 2014 18:35 GMT
#2344
I mean we really need this to be right so please just vote the scummiest guy and we figure out where to go next afterwards.
It's not like earlier when we had some people push for something that just didn't make sense with what the rest of the assumption was. Foolishness makes sense and he's the best lynch for today.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 18:51 GMT
#2345
Alright. Back.

Not taking it for granted is fine, but people had Prome scummy D1, we pretty much backed off on D2 because of sandroba stuff (except VE).

I dunno if I agree about prome having the "weakest things" attributed to him, but maybe. I'd flip it around and ask you if he's done anything in particular that made you feel townie on him.
Fe fi fo fum.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 28 2014 19:04 GMT
#2346
On January 29 2014 03:51 austinmcc wrote:
Alright. Back.

Not taking it for granted is fine, but people had Prome scummy D1, we pretty much backed off on D2 because of sandroba stuff (except VE).

I dunno if I agree about prome having the "weakest things" attributed to him, but maybe. I'd flip it around and ask you if he's done anything in particular that made you feel townie on him.


just recently, I've explained why I'd rather vote foolishness than him. He has a townread on me. He gets angry at me and asks what I'm doing. Why would he be doing that as mafia? Shouldn't be he sitting back in irc laughing and be happy that I'm willing to lynch foolishness over him?

You think he'd attack me after everyone and their mom has called me town this cycle, as mafia when I'm voting foolishess instead of being happy to not have any more heat?
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 19:16 GMT
#2347
Kita stuff

Half-joke vote on Sandroba early. REAL ODD if he's mafia with Sandroba.
Nice post on marv, noting how marv treated Foolishness in that champions game, connecting it here.
Points out Foolishness's read on Sandroba D1. This had already been brought up, but still looks good for kita.

Lotta interaction with sand or posts that mention him on D1. Unvotes sand to vote HF, he had given previous reasons that HF looked scummy (scummy null, to be specific), and gives what feels like an alright reason to swap + Show Spoiler +
On January 23 2014 02:43 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2014 22:53 marvellosity wrote:
On January 22 2014 22:49 kitaman27 wrote:
I'd much rather hear who marv is considering voting, rather than defending a player he thinks is town.

Wave looks better, for obvious reasons


Could you expand on this, even if it's brief? I didn't pick up on the obvious reason. Mine read was more based on the lack of anything wrong, rather than an abundance of anything he has done that is helpful.

Also, could you justify your Holyflare vote for me with specifics? You mention that you thought gonzaw's points were good. Is that what you're going by or is the vote mostly due to his absence from the thread?

I currently don't have a strong preference between sandroba and Holyflare and it seems like sandroba hasn't been inspired to rejoin the thread. I'll vote with you for the time being.

##Unvote
##Vote Holyflare



Towards the D1 lynch, is fine with austin/foolishness/prome/sandroba being the lynch choices. As people are picking specific ones, he's following up (asks Foolishness why Prome over me, what differentiates us). Makes it look like he's really considering.

This FEELS TO ME very out of place if Prom or Foolish were mafia with Kita:
On January 23 2014 08:09 kitaman27 wrote:
I think the biggest thing to consider is whether or not sandroba was the sacrificial lamb in an attempt to save Prom/Foolishness.
Leaving only Kita/marv and kita/WoS?

THERE'S NEAT STUFF FOR ANYONE ON PAGE 49 AND 50? KITA QUESTIONING PROME ABOUT PROME DROPPING KITA WAY DOWN A LIST. MARV ON KITA/SANDROBA. GONZAW ON PROME, AND SPECIFICALLY PROME/SANDROBA. GONZAW CONTINUING TO CALL PROME ON SOME THINGS, MARV DEFENDING PROME.

On January 24 2014 23:12 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2014 23:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
My D1 is usually pretty bad. I almost NEVER have strong scumreads on D1 and I'm not going to fake confidence about them if they don't exist. If I'm wishy washy about something in thread it's because I'm not afraid to show the rest of the town my thought processes on a matter, which I would think is fairly obvious that that is what I am attempting to do.


I think in the end you have to push yourself to pick a read even if you're not 100%. I wasn't rock solid on Prom and I had sandro in my top 3 scum list, but I still stuck with my lynch because that was the player I had the best feeling about at the time. It may get me in trouble in the long run, but sitting back and allowing others to determine the fate of the lynch doesn't do you any good when 3/10 of them have an anti-town agenda and the other 7/10 likely are just as puzzled as you.
I really like this post and I think I'm not going any further in kita's filter after it. He grabs a PORTION of a WoS post from a couple minutes earlier, responds in a way that doesn't attack WoS (further thread not, on pg. 64 and 65, just before this, WoS is posting his first giant posts, calling prome scum, and marv again comes in to say that WoS is being weird because of the prome/sand connections he's drawing). Anyway, whatever, kita town.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 19:22 GMT
#2348
On January 29 2014 04:04 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2014 03:51 austinmcc wrote:
Alright. Back.

Not taking it for granted is fine, but people had Prome scummy D1, we pretty much backed off on D2 because of sandroba stuff (except VE).

I dunno if I agree about prome having the "weakest things" attributed to him, but maybe. I'd flip it around and ask you if he's done anything in particular that made you feel townie on him.


just recently, I've explained why I'd rather vote foolishness than him. He has a townread on me. He gets angry at me and asks what I'm doing. Why would he be doing that as mafia? Shouldn't be he sitting back in irc laughing and be happy that I'm willing to lynch foolishness over him?

You think he'd attack me after everyone and their mom has called me town this cycle, as mafia when I'm voting foolishess instead of being happy to not have any more heat?
I mean, I'll gladly respond with what someone who ain't me might do in a given scenario.

If he's mafia, he probably doesn't want to be firing off townreads, no. But sentiment on you is changing, and if we flip Foolishness and he's town, it's UNLIKELY to change back (would just give more reason for thread to be townie on you). So he could push you or not, but you feel, right now, unlikely to be the next lynch if we lynch Foolishness and he's town. So there's no real bonus to push you, and I don't think he keeps on doing it.

As far as not pushing you. If he's town, he agrees, is cool with you now, thinks you're townie and doesn't attack. If he's mafia, doesn't expect to be able to lynch you, then why keep attacking you? He's focused on trying to get foolish lynched (Again, if foolish town), defending himself somewhat, not on bigger matters.

Like...Foolishness was/is on the chopping block today. He comes in and posts a case on Octavious. Octavious is mafia. In that scenario, I see Octavious being VERY VERY VERY FOCUSED on Foolishness. Octavious does not want people coming around because (a) he's mafia and (b) if they lynch him, then Foolishness looks better again. So i THINK, PERSONALLY, that Octavious (here he's Prome) is going to be focused on Foolishness, and on Foolishness v. Himself, and not actually on setting up a candidate for the next day. All of a sudden there's a MUCH MORE REAL possibility that Octavious himself gets lynched, and he needs to fight that fire NOW instead of play for the next day's lynch.

Where MUCH MORE REAL is somewhat relative to earlier in the day, when NOBODY was talking about lynching Prome seriously.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 19:25 GMT
#2349
(Furthermore I think he could be worried that with Foolishness calling you town, if he continues to call you mafia, you might swap your vote (assuming you're town). One guy has gone to a bunch of trouble to paint you town, the other guy keeps calling you mafia, which one do you vote for?)
Fe fi fo fum.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9244 Posts
January 28 2014 19:30 GMT
#2350
Since nobody has actually commented on Foolishness's large blocks of text, I think we at least owe it to him to state what we agree or disagree with and why.

My first concern is that Foolishness doesn't provide these posts until he is the clear number one lynch preference for the thread. Contributing while having the choice to do so to help town and contributing for survival are two different things in my opinion. I know he has spent a lot of time on these posts, but disappearing from the thread, while leaving us hanging on who he thinks the additional mafia player is a concern.

I don't put much value into the analysis that I'm town. I'm under little consideration for today's lynch and while it seems insightful, it doesn't have an immediate impact on finding mafia. This is similar to his "Prom is town" analysis where he is making a point that nobody really strongly disagrees with. I would have felt much better if he wrote a brief paragraph about why I'm town and instead used his time to analyze the likely mafia pair with Prom.

I'll likely comment about the Toad/Prom cases in another post.

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 26 2014 07:58 Foolishness wrote:
Toad seems like he's trying to figure things out, and even if I don't agree with his arguments he's doing things for the town and VE is not.


On January 26 2014 08:14 Foolishness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2014 08:09 gonzaw wrote:
Foo, right now these are your "scum suspects": Toad/kita/WOS.

Choose the scum between them based on this lynch. Now

WoS/Kita.


On January 26 2014 08:56 Foolishness wrote:
From what I've seen of the past 24 hours Toad's actions seem more congruent than Kitaman's. I will go make sure their posts are in line with this train of thought (keep in mind there are pages I didn't read and some I quickly skimmed through). I also liked what Toad said about VE, but that could just be because I was feeling the same way. And yes, so far I think Toad has the best intentions with his vote.


On January 26 2014 07:58 Foolishness wrote:
Toad seems like he's trying to figure things out, and even if I don't agree with his arguments he's doing things for the town and VE is not. I can't argue against VE here. I'm very confident about my read on WoS at this point, it will be reevaluated for the following day because he should be lynched asap.


On January 26 2014 10:01 Foolishness wrote:
Why? Because it shows a townie mindset as he is trying to make connections between possible suspects and figure out what's going on. He's eliminating possibilities to determine who is likely town based on sandroba connections.



In the final of the four posts, Foolishness lists the order of events that he takes. During day two, Foolishness mentions several times how Wave and myself are the most likely pair and gives several reasons why he is feeling better about Toad.

However, here is where Foolishness actually claims to start:

On January 28 2014 10:13 Foolishness wrote:
Since WoS was still hovering over my head I decided to start by analyzing Toad, thinking I could prove a connection between him and WoS while showing that Toad is exhibiting his mafia behavior.


If you think Wave/Kita is the mafia pair, why are you looking at the Wave/Toad pair first? Isn't that backwards?

In fact, why aren't you looking at Wave first and then attempt to draw comparisons if Wave is mafia? Instead, you assume that Wave is mafia and try to find comparisons to support this idea. From my perspective, your suspicions of Wave are based on the events of day one, night one, and early day two. With all of day two to take into account, why aren't you starting there? You state that you are 95% sure on Wave at one point, but how much of Wave's filter had you actually read? Had anything changed from end of day 2 Wave until beginning of day 3 Wave? Not really. I'd feel much better about the analysis if you had came to this conclusion on day 2, rather than come to the conclusion after the thread pretty much agreed that Wave wasn't the best lynch candidate anymore.

On January 26 2014 10:08 Foolishness wrote:
The people that voted for sandroba are town. WoS is mafia. Kitaman as his partner makes a lot of sense.


Furthermore, you state that Wave + Kita makes a lot of sense. However, according to the time frame that you're providing, you state that you didn't take a look at my filter with this pair in mind until after you've made this statement. So essentially you're saying that it makes a lot of sense before actually looking to see if it makes a lot of sense?

On January 28 2014 10:13 Foolishness wrote:
With my original theory about the day 1 votes going out the window, it was beginning to look like the mafia bussed sandroba. On it's own that seems unlikely. However going back and forth in my head over whether or not it could happen was not productive and not leading me anywhere (it was leading me in the wrong direction). I decided to approach the game from a new angle where I just ignored everything that happened with the day 1 votes.


I'm more interested in the angle of "Did sandroba bus Prom?", rather than the other way around. In my opinion, this is the single most relevant piece of information in regards to Prom's alignment, but I don't really see any mention of it.

On January 28 2014 10:13 Foolishness wrote:
So what's the plan for the town to win the game?
Lynch Promethelax, and figure out who is his partner from the remaining unconfirmed (myself included).


I'd really like to hear more about this now, even if you can't put in the full time necessary to research it.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9244 Posts
January 28 2014 19:42 GMT
#2351
On January 29 2014 04:22 austinmcc wrote:
Octavious is mafia.


Duh?

[image loading]
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 19:44 GMT
#2352
On January 29 2014 04:42 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2014 04:22 austinmcc wrote:
Octavious is mafia.


Duh?

[image loading]
Ugh why did I add an extra o?

But I think there are more villians than there are Spidermans and Spiderpeople, so isn't the mafia faction spiderman and the town faction the villians?

Although spiderman is FAR more likely to be doing the lynching.
Fe fi fo fum.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 28 2014 19:48 GMT
#2353
spiderman does no lynching.
Spiderman is the kind of MC where you throw up while he's sprouting righteous stuff into peoples face à la "yeah I get you (Villain) had a bad childhood and I understand why you are trying to do all this. I feel sorry for you but killing newborn babies is bad no matter how bad your childhood was" and you just sit there and think FOR CHIRSTS SAKE JUST PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 19:48 GMT
#2354
WoS Stuff

Starts off poking at Kita about Sandroba. Can go either way.
Very much not worried about Foolishness's early vote on him (F voted WoS for his first post)
Back and forth with Kita about Sandroba.
Scummy points for referencing positively Foolishness's comment on Sandroba engaging the thread actively

In this post, if the team is actually marv/sand/prome, WoS accidentally catches the mafia team - + Show Spoiler +
On January 23 2014 05:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2014 05:31 Foolishness wrote:
On January 23 2014 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 23 2014 04:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
On January 23 2014 04:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 23 2014 04:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not the tone - the act itself. Like, if he were town I feel like rather than do a stream of consciousness thing, he would read and have actual suspicions and post those.

I disagree. I could swear he's done this specifically as town before (as have I) but I'd have to check which is kind of difficult for me atm. Either way he's given me enough that even were I able to be convinced before his return (which I kinda doubted) I certainly won't be voting him today.

Like I get the we 'expect more' but is it not possible that Prome simply hasn't gotten to his 'POP' case yet? I don't allow this defense for people like Foolishness/Sandroba because they haven't actively been here.

That's the thing though, we don't "expect more" we expect actual thoughts and opinions. Having suspicions of someone, and succinctly explaining them, takes actually LESS effort than doing a stream of consciousness catch up thing. It's that I expected LESS. Like, I don't know, it's hard to explain. But I'm not voting for him so ultimately it doesn't matter much.

Foolishness can you comment on the conversation VE and I had about Prome that ended with the above post?

Sounds like you're making good arguments why he should be lynched.

Look at it this way. Let's say I posted and said, "Kitaman is the best lynch right now!" what would you respond? You'd say, "wtf he's been pushing the town in the right direction and asking good questions."

Now I say, "Promethelax is the best lynch right now!" (or Holyflare) what is your response? You say, "Eh, I feel like he's doing okay..."

I don't see any arguments that show that Promethelax is pushing the town in the right direction or pushing a pro-town agenda. He's responded sure, but where's the conviction and the push to get something done?

In relation to what gonzaw just posted, I feel like the above could be applied as well to either marv or snadroba----and actually starts to mesh with the idea that I haven't been feeling anything at all from marv all game aside from a little bit of agreement in some posts that I quoted earlier in my filter.
Taking a closer look at marv.



WoS, just before his Foolishness vote, has a bunch of posts on Foolishness/prome/marv/sandro. Not trusting Foolishness, who had posted a case-y thing and a vote on Prome. Asking Gonzaw about Gonzaw's vote, wondering whether Gonzaw would prefer marv or sandro. It FEELS legit. He doesn't just sheep Gonzaw's vote, there's a lot of leadup that FEELS townie to me, where WoS is looking at Prome and Foolish a lot but never really doing anything super mega conclusory with them.

I like WoS's conclusion that at least one scum was on the Sandroba wagon. It was against the grain, but he's not using it to try and paint anyone in particular as scummy. He just explains WHY he thinks there's a scum or multiple scum on sandroba, says it's unlikely me or gonzaw (for reasons). I really really like his thoughts after the Sandroba lynch. Neato.

I feel good about WoS's D1.

I like WoS's break in his catchup posts to tell people to stop commenting on fluff in the way that they are. That reads real townie in the middle of his other junk, when he's not attacking anyone in particular, and I like it.

I want to stop now. Also, I'm going to.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 19:49 GMT
#2355
On January 29 2014 04:48 Toadesstern wrote:
spiderman does no lynching.
Spiderman is the kind of MC where you throw up while he's sprouting righteous stuff into peoples face à la "yeah I get you (Villain) had a bad childhood and I understand why you are trying to do all this. I feel sorry for you but killing newborn babies is bad no matter how bad your childhood was" and you just sit there and think FOR CHIRSTS SAKE JUST PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE
Yeah but in terms of "Who is most likely to string people up by a rope/thread until they suffocate OR drop them in such a way that their necks snap as the thread springs back up", spiderman wins by a landslide.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 20:15 GMT
#2356
Alright, one more look over Foolish, then try to change minds.
Fe fi fo fum.
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
January 28 2014 20:18 GMT
#2357
On January 28 2014 21:17 WaveofShadow wrote:
You guys are assuming that marv is his secomndary and I am his (tertiary) target when he bever states that anywhere in his recent posts

I wanted to hear that stuff from him to try and get a read rather than have people put words in his mouth---now he may get all defensive about it which might convolute a read

Not that I have time to read much today really

Yes I did that on purpose. I made no mention of Austin anywhere in my posts yet Austin looks like he's taking the information I provided and is trying to draw conclusions, while Marv is just trying to debunk everything I say (instead of say, analyzing the Promethelax case and looking for connections to the last mafia). Austin knows he's innocent so he didn't read at all into the fact that his name wasn't mentioned, because that wasn't on his mind. Marv noticed it in particular because he knows he's guilty.
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
January 28 2014 20:19 GMT
#2358
On January 29 2014 05:18 Foolishness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2014 21:17 WaveofShadow wrote:
You guys are assuming that marv is his secomndary and I am his (tertiary) target when he bever states that anywhere in his recent posts

I wanted to hear that stuff from him to try and get a read rather than have people put words in his mouth---now he may get all defensive about it which might convolute a read

Not that I have time to read much today really

Yes I did that on purpose. I made no mention of Austin anywhere in my posts yet Austin looks like he's taking the information I provided and is trying to draw conclusions, while Marv is just trying to debunk everything I say (instead of say, analyzing the Promethelax case and looking for connections to the last mafia). Austin knows he's innocent so he didn't read at all into the fact that his name wasn't mentioned, because that wasn't on his mind. Marv noticed it in particular because he knows he's guilty.
(Except it's also really apparent why you'd do that and the only possible other targets were marv and myself and there were already reasons to be suspicious of him)
Fe fi fo fum.
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
January 28 2014 20:22 GMT
#2359
On January 29 2014 04:48 austinmcc wrote:
WoS Stuff

Starts off poking at Kita about Sandroba. Can go either way.
Very much not worried about Foolishness's early vote on him (F voted WoS for his first post)
Back and forth with Kita about Sandroba.
Scummy points for referencing positively Foolishness's comment on Sandroba engaging the thread actively

In this post, if the team is actually marv/sand/prome, WoS accidentally catches the mafia team - + Show Spoiler +
On January 23 2014 05:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2014 05:31 Foolishness wrote:
On January 23 2014 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 23 2014 04:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
On January 23 2014 04:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 23 2014 04:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not the tone - the act itself. Like, if he were town I feel like rather than do a stream of consciousness thing, he would read and have actual suspicions and post those.

I disagree. I could swear he's done this specifically as town before (as have I) but I'd have to check which is kind of difficult for me atm. Either way he's given me enough that even were I able to be convinced before his return (which I kinda doubted) I certainly won't be voting him today.

Like I get the we 'expect more' but is it not possible that Prome simply hasn't gotten to his 'POP' case yet? I don't allow this defense for people like Foolishness/Sandroba because they haven't actively been here.

That's the thing though, we don't "expect more" we expect actual thoughts and opinions. Having suspicions of someone, and succinctly explaining them, takes actually LESS effort than doing a stream of consciousness catch up thing. It's that I expected LESS. Like, I don't know, it's hard to explain. But I'm not voting for him so ultimately it doesn't matter much.

Foolishness can you comment on the conversation VE and I had about Prome that ended with the above post?

Sounds like you're making good arguments why he should be lynched.

Look at it this way. Let's say I posted and said, "Kitaman is the best lynch right now!" what would you respond? You'd say, "wtf he's been pushing the town in the right direction and asking good questions."

Now I say, "Promethelax is the best lynch right now!" (or Holyflare) what is your response? You say, "Eh, I feel like he's doing okay..."

I don't see any arguments that show that Promethelax is pushing the town in the right direction or pushing a pro-town agenda. He's responded sure, but where's the conviction and the push to get something done?

In relation to what gonzaw just posted, I feel like the above could be applied as well to either marv or snadroba----and actually starts to mesh with the idea that I haven't been feeling anything at all from marv all game aside from a little bit of agreement in some posts that I quoted earlier in my filter.
Taking a closer look at marv.



WoS, just before his Foolishness vote, has a bunch of posts on Foolishness/prome/marv/sandro. Not trusting Foolishness, who had posted a case-y thing and a vote on Prome. Asking Gonzaw about Gonzaw's vote, wondering whether Gonzaw would prefer marv or sandro. It FEELS legit. He doesn't just sheep Gonzaw's vote, there's a lot of leadup that FEELS townie to me, where WoS is looking at Prome and Foolish a lot but never really doing anything super mega conclusory with them.

I like WoS's conclusion that at least one scum was on the Sandroba wagon. It was against the grain, but he's not using it to try and paint anyone in particular as scummy. He just explains WHY he thinks there's a scum or multiple scum on sandroba, says it's unlikely me or gonzaw (for reasons). I really really like his thoughts after the Sandroba lynch. Neato.

I feel good about WoS's D1.

I like WoS's break in his catchup posts to tell people to stop commenting on fluff in the way that they are. That reads real townie in the middle of his other junk, when he's not attacking anyone in particular, and I like it.

I want to stop now. Also, I'm going to.

If you read through WoS past games you'll notice that when he's town his posts are very very direct. He's clear and concise and hardly wastes any words. This game he has a lot of posts that are not like that; his attitude and behavior is a bit different.

However that's about the most incriminating evidence I can find, and that's hardly enough to get him lynched. It looks like you feel the same way. Where's the evidence in WoS that says he's mafia? Where's the agenda he's pushing? Where are the slipups? They don't exist, and when I realized that is when this game started making a whole lot more sense. You have the solid evidence against Promethelax that I provided, but that kind of stuff doesn't exist for WoS.

WoS is town. That's the piece to this puzzle that links everything together.
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
January 28 2014 20:33 GMT
#2360
On January 29 2014 05:19 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2014 05:18 Foolishness wrote:
On January 28 2014 21:17 WaveofShadow wrote:
You guys are assuming that marv is his secomndary and I am his (tertiary) target when he bever states that anywhere in his recent posts

I wanted to hear that stuff from him to try and get a read rather than have people put words in his mouth---now he may get all defensive about it which might convolute a read

Not that I have time to read much today really

Yes I did that on purpose. I made no mention of Austin anywhere in my posts yet Austin looks like he's taking the information I provided and is trying to draw conclusions, while Marv is just trying to debunk everything I say (instead of say, analyzing the Promethelax case and looking for connections to the last mafia). Austin knows he's innocent so he didn't read at all into the fact that his name wasn't mentioned, because that wasn't on his mind. Marv noticed it in particular because he knows he's guilty.
(Except it's also really apparent why you'd do that and the only possible other targets were marv and myself and there were already reasons to be suspicious of him)

Sure, and I understand that. I didn't really have much room to work with on that front. But on the page after I posted my analysis Marv makes this post:
On January 28 2014 11:06 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2014 10:57 kitaman27 wrote:
On January 28 2014 10:54 marvellosity wrote:
Patience is in limited supply

as is my ability to stay awake much longer when i must go to bed


Regardless of his read on you, what do you think about his thoughts on Prom?

They look fine. Mostly everything looks fine. The issue is, the conclusions are wrong. The voting that I showed makes no sense whatsoever. As for Prome's meta, there are two pretty important things. One is that he's had time issues this game. Now I'm sure if he's mafia blabla he may have just avoided the thread in general, but not like this, and Prome is 100% not the kind of guy that would ever lie about time issues with work. He just isn't.

The 2nd, major issue that Fool has (purposefully?) not taken into account is Prome's ego. Prome's ego is large, somewhat justifiably so. This isn't an insult, just an observation. In every game he plays, he considers himself one of the top townies. And he acts like it. Go look at PyP LoL postgame (or there's some other thread where he says it) - he's bigging himself up for being awesome there and he's annoyed that he wasn't given enough credit for it.

Now, in relation to this game - yes, his ego is large. But he's not an idiot, and he's well aware that in this field, he is, for a change, one of the smaller fish. He's definitely referenced that in the thread, probably both pre-game and post-game. This will affect his "swagger" quite considerably, in that he looks up to most of the players here, rather than down, like he normally does. So he's more unsure, he's more willing to listen (example that post that Fool quotes where Prome is trusting gonzaw's read on sand). It's a large, missing piece of this read.

Read this post carefully and you'll realize that there's something wrong. This is not a Marv town post. In particular I feel that his first three sentences show that he's mafia. He says: "They look fine. Mostly everything looks fine. The issue is, the conclusions are wrong."

How can the analysis be right but the conclusions be wrong? That's saying, "oh Foolishness you're right, Promethelax is not playing his town game, definitely is pushing a mafia agenda, does not care about the town lynches and only his survival, he has the really bad vote posts which shows that he's pushing an agenda....but he's town". What?!? That's not a town way of thinking at all. If a town looks at my post about Promethelax and disagrees with it he's going to point out the flaws in my logic: "actually his voting could have been from a town perspective because X and Y" or "that Promethelax post could have come from town Promethelax because look at his other town games where he did something similar". Something to that effect. A town isn't going to look at that and be like, "yup, Foolishness does perfect analysis except he drew the wrong conclusions".

Even so, why is Marv going out of his way to defend Promethelax? The thoughts don't line up. I'd guess he'd start making connections between Promethelax and other players ("well I know I'm town and Foolishness's analysis looks pretty good so gotta find the remaining mafia") or just defend himself ("well I know I'm town and Foolishness is implying that I'm the last mafia. I can prove my innocence so something is wrong here"). Perhaps these are wifom arguments, but Marv's line of thinking is not consistent.

And to address what he said here, sure it's a good point to make about Promethelax's ego. But that can only explain so much. That doesn't address why he's not interested in the town lynches, why he made a strange list without incriminating anyone (and why Marv wasn't on that list). Second, if Promethelax does have an ego I'd expect him to vote for who he thinks is mafia above all instead of going with Gonzaw.
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
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