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On January 13 2014 08:44 marvellosity wrote:
[09:59] <VisceraEyes> He's not engaging me at all - trying to figure out my alignment, get my opinion on things, get reads from me, anything. It's all take and no give with that guy, and that's not been my experience with town marv
I do not have the logs but iirc this is 100% the exact same thing he told me, down to the word. Obviously not a huge deal but odd
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On January 13 2014 08:47 marvellosity wrote:
But he's lying about stuff, and he keeps shutting down private conversations - with both rayn and VE.
same for me
On January 13 2014 08:39 thrawn2112 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Original Message From VisceraEyes: I'm townie as fuck in not PMs, and even townier in PMs. And yes, there is at least one name on that list that I disagree is probably town. Maybe two. Show nested quote +Original Message From thrawn2112: Eh, I don't think you're being too much of anything in not pms. Same for most people. Do you disagree with any of the following as town? rayn yamato kush alakaslam DrH gumshoe blazinghand suchdoge I don't have scumreads yet, mostly because I'm waiting on pm responses from potential scumreads Original Message From VisceraEyes: Am I not being townie in not PMs? Original Message From thrawn2112:
Are you being townie in pms?
obviously I could have asked him to elaborate after the last PM, but I shouldn't need to
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are there supposed to be links to go along with that
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On January 13 2014 09:34 LSB Banking wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 09:30 thrawn2112 wrote:
are there supposed to be links to go along with that yes there are... but I don't know if I can fix that without having to copy&past every single clicky
do you have any reads based off of anything that's been posted since you made your first post?
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On January 13 2014 09:57 WaveofShadow wrote:Some VE logs. Have fucking fun. Can give you thrawn and yamato if you want too. Show nested quote +Original Message From VisceraEyes: I'm down to IRC or whatever. I didn't bring it to the thread for that reason - because I can also see DocH doing this as town maybe if it is him going all emo. My vote is on you because I think you'll do your hardest to find a good lynch and lynch it. You're putting in way more effort into fooling me than I think you would if you were scum, but that's just my feels reason. You're PMs with me seem to have a genuine concern for trying to figure out other peoples' alignments, and you don't seem evasive about anything. That's why my vote is on you - because I think you're town and because in the end I'm confident in your commitment to the game if you win. If you're not running just let me know and I'll find another candidate, but I think you'll do fine for this game. Original Message From WaveofShadow: People's reasoning on Derrida appears to be that his opening post in this game somewhat matches the opening post in his scumgame (which is his ONLY other unflipped game---he's another that is still running). I get my ass burned on newbie reads all the time but I really don't THINK he's scum...I mean of course he could be pulling all that newbie shit as scum to throw people off but ugh. I don't think you could get DrH lynched for that nor do I think you should. Isn't DrH all about going all emo when stuff doesn't go his way? Is that what made him give up the election exactly as well because I thought he had reasoning in thread as to why he backed down, unless he was lying. Personally this is the reason why I wouldn't have voted him for mayor in the end (and if I was running, would have included it in my platform)---because DrH is known to get 'bored' or give up shortly after D1. He gets demoralized very easily and we need something better than that in a mayor. Also how exactly did rayn and suchdoge shake him up? Because I could very well see the both of them as scum. Rayn is just not performing to standard this game and I have a case on suchdoge in thread that nobody has commented on. Why is your vote on me right now exactly? (I'll probably be around for a while since my guy is having a rough night, so if you want to irc at any point just PM me and let me know.) Original Message From VisceraEyes: No he didn't warn me, but he has asked me for a couple of paragraphs on my reads. He says he's lost confidence in the game. I could probably get him lynched for the PM he sent me. It's really out of character and given context, looks pretty bad. I'm just trying to figure out of I'm seeing what I see. Here's the post. Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
can i get like a paragraph or two on your top one or two scumreads, i'm really out of confidence in this game rayn and suchdoge really shook me up. i need a jumping off point since my BH lynch fell off the map. He was suspicious of BH in the thread AND in PMs with me, but now he's acting all mopey because his scumread didn't pan out, presumably due to the mason claim. Can I see a town Doc acting like this? Maybe. Scum DocH? Maybe. Like from my perspective, as town, I'm like "Whatever, we'll lynch one of them eventually if they never die in spite of being claimed and confirmed town" so I'm just fine with letting them go. But it shakes DocH into giving up the election? What do YOU think it means? I think it makes him look much worse. Also where the pissballs is rayn? Since BH claimed mason I've seen practically nothing from rayn. What's the deal with Dirreda or whatever? Why are people suspicious of him? I've read most of the thread and I'm not really seeing much reasoning for it. I really just need to reread the whole thread before it gets too big to do so. I just read the last 20 or so pages but I kinda want to start over and reread everything before I go any further. And before I do that I'm gonna play LoL. Original Message From WaveofShadow: Thoughts on who you'd want as mayor now with DrH out? Did he talk to you at all or give you any warning regarding his dropping from the race (ie was it a gambit)? Also for pretty terrible reasons I'm thinking Mocsta is scum. Original Message From VisceraEyes: I responded to that point. I don't have time and no, I couldn't totally win. Scum got me elected last game. Original Message From WaveofShadow: You know, aside from Koshis dumb suspicion of me because I'm not 'mad enough' about rolling town, he makes a point about you and the mayoral election. You could totally win---why not run? Original Message From VisceraEyes: Yeah when you were all defeatist about how bad towns have been and stuff, a la Thug Life. As much as I may have agreed with you about it, being vocal about it in the thread did nothing but make me think you were dramatizing it with malicious intent  Original Message From WaveofShadow: Wish I knew honestly. I've never played with a scum marv so I don't know what to expect, and PM-land is muddling it up because I don't know what he's doing. I know I don't like the fact that he's not even attempting to assist town in public as normal. (What do you mean by in a hole about the quality of play here? Do you mean in this game, or Thug Life when I was all ragey? ) Original Message From VisceraEyes:
I mean, everyone who CAN find scum for good reasons should be assertive and confident about it - maybe then towns would be able to get shit done. I'm super glad to see that you're not in a hole about the quality of play here though, that shit was annoying.
What do you think about marv? I mean you said he's not doing as much as you'd hoped or expected or whatever...do you think that makes him scum? Or more likely to be scum? Or is it null to you?
[quote]
are those the only people you've talked to in PM's? Me, ve, and yamato?
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ve.. why are you making an effort to be scummy
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hey guys WoS is town but we hurt his feelings
be nice to him or he will probably act scummy out of spite
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I think VE has been buddying WoS hardcore
evidence is everything in the logs and VE's mayor vote
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On January 13 2014 15:12 Mocsta wrote:
Damn.. I was considering shooting thrawn.
honestly i will feel left out if you dont
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Aquanim
+ Show Spoiler [thread] +On January 12 2014 11:16 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2014 11:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
let's talk about how derrida is scum Yeah, OK. Reasons to think he's scum: list post, but that's a heuristic in which I have only limited confidence bases his mayoral preferences first on "enjoying reading their filter because it is srs" and second his read on them Reasons to think he's town: I got nuffin, but I do have... Reasons I'm not certain yet: he has like 2 posts and being a newbie his thinking about "is this relevant to whether they should be mayor or not" probably isn't expected to be entirely accurate whatever his alignment tl;dr I'm not certain he's scum but he's a reasonable guess P.S. will go meta him now re. Marv's statement On January 12 2014 11:35 Aquanim wrote:
All I see in justanothertownie's two-page filter is kinda pointless oneliners in which he commits to almost nothing. For all I know he's doing work in PMs, but based on his thread presence so far he's another possible scum for me.
On January 12 2014 19:36 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2014 19:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 12 2014 19:05 Aquanim wrote:On January 12 2014 18:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:So do you think this is unreasonable? This is about your reads post i talked about earlier: <VisceraEyes> I don't really like it - his problem with Obvious is something obvious, and his problem with justanothertownie is that he's acting like justanother townie. And he complains about lurkers.
<VisceraEyes> But what I really don't like about it is that he later asks me what I think of it...as if I should already be aware of his stance on justanothertownie, when he states quite literally that those reads are about as firm as his null read of someone else. Well. I gave my problems with Captain Obvious the thread space they deserved, which was about a sentence. It's not like I'm screaming for a policy lynch of him - just gave my opinion of him. And why shouldn't VE be aware of my stance on justanothertownie? The conclusion of my clash with JAT is literally on the same page as where I asked him that question. Is he not reading the thread or something? For that matter, why shouldn't I ask VE for his opinion on a read I'm pushing? I question the purpose of VE raising any of those points. Because you don't really have a stance. You call JAT out for not posting reads. Why is JAT a scumread when about 80% of the game has not posted a single read? JAT had clearly been present for a fair bit of the game but hadn't done anything which seemed like he was even interested in looking for scum. If PM evidence is presented which shows he was looking for scum in that way I will reconsider my read. If ya'll reckon that JAT not looking for scum is his standard town meta I will (disgustedly) move him to null. --note-- i don't believe aqua has followed up on this read at all On January 12 2014 21:34 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2014 21:23 marvellosity wrote:On January 12 2014 18:36 Aquanim wrote:On January 12 2014 18:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 12 2014 18:22 Aquanim wrote:On January 12 2014 18:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I do, do you have any reason for calling people out for making general statements and then following it up with statements like:
"And then there's the eight or so other lurkers."
and
"Of the active players I reckon at least most are town."
?? Well for starters I'd appreciate it if you say where I "called people out for making general statements". I remember calling JAT out for "having no commitments regarding any reads at all in his entire filter" which is not at all the same thing. Also, everybody makes some general statements, including me. I've also made some not-general statements. What exactly is your point? I also can't help but notice that you haven't really answered my question. Would you care to correct that? Interesting. I don't see a single clear read from you in thread. If there is some, could you point me out to one? All i see you say about other people is "they might be town or scum". And yes i answered your question. You asked me if i have a reason to think VE is town and i said i do. Do you have a reason to think VE is mafia? I think JAT is much more likely to be scum than town, for the reasons stated earlier - namely that he didn't seem to have any reads, even when I pushed him for it. I've seen the PMs Thrawn referenced here and I find JAT's reads there entirely unconvincing, just some lacklustre one-liners. Derrida moderately more likely to be scum than town, but that could change fast since his filter really doesn't have much to go on yet. And yes, I have a reason to think VE is mafia. There, see? Two of us can play that game. As a FYI, bugs kinda laid into jat in Quiet game for "having no reads" while he was alive, both in-game and post-game. Surprised you didn't notice this given you hosted it? Or take this into account at all into your read...? ##vote: marvellosity It would be an easy playstyle to replicate if he's scum. At worst, if he's town I have hopefully communicated to him that he should have reads and make them public to convince us all of his alignment. If he does that I am quite willing to be persuaded that I am incorrect in my present read, if that is in fact the case.
+ Show Spoiler [PMs] +"As for WoS, my read is like I said - gut says town, can't find any actual reads he's made so I'm having difficulty substantiating it, and I don't know him well enough to guess whether this raging is characteristic of his town or scum game. I've PMd him to see if he actually has reads he was too mad to post or not - starting with exactly why he thinks VE is town."
"Also, about Gumshoe: putting himself forward as a mayoral candidate put him in the spotlight some so it'd be a ballsy scum move but he's done absolutely nothing since. The following post is a pretty half-assed way to support a Xata lynch. How seriously are you considering him? I'm currently at "if he does nothing significant tomorrow he's a decent lynch"."
"I don't really know a whole lot about Koshi except that I think he's usually more active and more proactive than this. On that basis I'm leaning scum, but I think what this should really mean is "I should go talk to Koshi and find out what he's actually thinking"."
"well he's not posted since I talked about him in the thread. In short, there's nothing about him I find towny and have no objections to seeing him hang, but due to the sheer shortness of his filter there's not enough material for me to be certain. "
"My recollection of what I've seen from justanothertownie in the past is that this isn't *quite* unbelieveable as his towngame, I don't remember him ever having much in the way of strong/accurate/confident reads and pushing them.
Reading those PMs it certainly doesn't feel like he's put a great deal of effort into his reads, but I'm not 100% certain that makes him scum - I've long since ceased to be amazed at the failure of townies to put effort into games. He's certainly jumped up to the top of my scummy list though."
"Leaning scum on Rayn since he hasn't claimed that Mocsta is scum for the clusterf*** between the two of them. Blatant OMGUS is basically all Rayn does as town, isn't it? (based on BttB anyway)
Then again the sheer derpiness which Rayn is exhibiting is a towny indication generally from him. "Talking about reads in PMs is anti-town"... is he drunk or something? Basically I don't want to try to read Rayn because either way reading his posts will pain me.
Mocsta's trolly play is bizarre and not really typical of him, but I think I'll have a chat with him privately. Either he's scum and just trying to shit up the thread or he has some motivation for inciting Rayn, I could believe either. Or maybe he's drunk too.
Kush seems moderately towny but not really enough to judge yet. "
Town Aquanim from BttB
The differences should be pretty obvious. Aquanim is clearly player who as town (which he's always rolled previously) likes to put a lot of thought into his reads and effort into his posts. He's doing neither of those this game. His explanations for reads only go surface deep, and many of his reads follow the pattern of "maybe this, maybe that, and here's an out for my future self." He doesn't screw around like that as town. He thinks through a problem, and comes to a conclusion which he clearly states. I've been having trouble getting firm reads out of him for much of the game, and when he considers a person's alignment he only takes small portions of their play into account. This is not the thoughtful town Aquanim that I've played with.
I also want to mention that I've been in PM contact with him since 15:40 KST, roughly two hours ago and he has not posted in the thread during that time. I'm fairly sure that I noticed this happening earlier in the game. His thread presence is non-existent, but since that is the case with so many likely-townies because of PMs I'd like to hear if any of you have PM'd him enough to get a read on him.
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nvm about aqua... he just came pretty close to town-confirming himself to me
Original Message From Aquanim:
Well, I still think you're town (perhaps even more so now, that case felt about right as your town mentality) so I'm still willing to talk to you - though the fact of the matter is I don't have anything more I want to ask you for now.
Just so's you know.
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On January 13 2014 18:40 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 18:31 thrawn2112 wrote:nvm about aqua... he just came pretty close to town-confirming himself to me Original Message From Aquanim:
Well, I still think you're town (perhaps even more so now, that case felt about right as your town mentality) so I'm still willing to talk to you - though the fact of the matter is I don't have anything more I want to ask you for now.
Just so's you know. I don't really get how this confirms him as town in your eyes.
ok
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On January 13 2014 18:47 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 18:45 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 13 2014 18:40 justanothertownie wrote:On January 13 2014 18:31 thrawn2112 wrote:nvm about aqua... he just came pretty close to town-confirming himself to me Original Message From Aquanim:
Well, I still think you're town (perhaps even more so now, that case felt about right as your town mentality) so I'm still willing to talk to you - though the fact of the matter is I don't have anything more I want to ask you for now.
Just so's you know. I don't really get how this confirms him as town in your eyes. ok Like would you explain this to me?
We've been talking all game and I've been very friendly in a "i'm town reading you" way, but I've gone back and forth from scum and town reading him without him knowing. All he knew up till I posted my case is that I was probably town reading him based on how I acted in PMs. Then suddenly I reveal my scumread to him and the thread, and he's still interested in talking to me even after he knows I strung him along in PMs. I don't think that as scum, his first reaction would be to immediately talk to the guy who just "betrayed" him.
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On January 13 2014 18:56 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 18:54 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 13 2014 18:47 justanothertownie wrote:On January 13 2014 18:45 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 13 2014 18:40 justanothertownie wrote:On January 13 2014 18:31 thrawn2112 wrote:nvm about aqua... he just came pretty close to town-confirming himself to me Original Message From Aquanim:
Well, I still think you're town (perhaps even more so now, that case felt about right as your town mentality) so I'm still willing to talk to you - though the fact of the matter is I don't have anything more I want to ask you for now.
Just so's you know. I don't really get how this confirms him as town in your eyes. ok Like would you explain this to me? We've been talking all game and I've been very friendly in a "i'm town reading you" way, but I've gone back and forth from scum and town reading him without him knowing. All he knew up till I posted my case is that I was probably town reading him based on how I acted in PMs. Then suddenly I reveal my scumread to him and the thread, and he's still interested in talking to me even after he knows I strung him along in PMs. I don't think that as scum, his first reaction would be to immediately talk to the guy who just "betrayed" him. Well if he was scum don't you think it would be his primary goal to convince you that your suspicion is wrong? By refusing to talk to you he certainly would not achieve that.
Yes, that would be his goal. But I have to make a call, and my call is that that post was genuine. This part here:
"Well, I still think you're town (perhaps even more so now, that case felt about right as your town mentality)"
looks very much like a real thought process that actually occured in a town aqua's mind
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On January 13 2014 19:02 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 18:59 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 13 2014 18:56 justanothertownie wrote:On January 13 2014 18:54 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 13 2014 18:47 justanothertownie wrote:On January 13 2014 18:45 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 13 2014 18:40 justanothertownie wrote:On January 13 2014 18:31 thrawn2112 wrote:nvm about aqua... he just came pretty close to town-confirming himself to me Original Message From Aquanim:
Well, I still think you're town (perhaps even more so now, that case felt about right as your town mentality) so I'm still willing to talk to you - though the fact of the matter is I don't have anything more I want to ask you for now.
Just so's you know. I don't really get how this confirms him as town in your eyes. ok Like would you explain this to me? We've been talking all game and I've been very friendly in a "i'm town reading you" way, but I've gone back and forth from scum and town reading him without him knowing. All he knew up till I posted my case is that I was probably town reading him based on how I acted in PMs. Then suddenly I reveal my scumread to him and the thread, and he's still interested in talking to me even after he knows I strung him along in PMs. I don't think that as scum, his first reaction would be to immediately talk to the guy who just "betrayed" him. Well if he was scum don't you think it would be his primary goal to convince you that your suspicion is wrong? By refusing to talk to you he certainly would not achieve that. Yes, that would be his goal. But I have to make a call, and my call is that that post was genuine. This part here: "Well, I still think you're town (perhaps even more so now, that case felt about right as your town mentality)" looks very much like a real thought process that actually occured in a town aqua's mind Ok... I actually thought your post about him made plenty of sense and I don't see how this pm can't be written by scum.
hmm?
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Date: 1/11/14 19:42 Original Message From kushm4sta: townread tooscummytobescum
for part two read kush's filter
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EPT
