EPTTL Mafia LXIV: A Game of Intrigue - Page 4
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They were directly warned twice to not include time dates, post numbers and mod posts in their posting of QT logs, and yet proceeded post a barely edited version of their log including the information they were warned not to. Full Story Firstly, at around this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=438132¤tpage=94#1862 I was concerned with the masons being able to essentially mod confirm themselves to the mayor. I wanted to check with other members of the community as to what they would do. So I sent this pm to Artanis[Xp], Foolishness, and TheMango Keep in mind that I was the person who made the decision and I am solely responsible for this decision. I warned masons Quicktopic Located here http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/mLyPiXmQBBK BlazingHand forward this to marv: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=j36BNjtD An expired link, but it was identical to the quicktopic (This was before my warning was issued in the quicktopic). My concern is if this is considered cheating, due to the ability to practically mod confirm their role as masons. The biggest concern is this A) It reveals the mod quicktopic account I am using, which would be very hard to fake B) It time date indicates that the quicktopic post was set up before alignments were decided and the game officially began, should this be taken as a fact, it would be nearly impossible for mafia to fake this unless they fabricated time dates. Although masons are supposed to be confirmed town in a sense, there was serious doubt on their alignment and posting a dump of a quicktopic including mod posts seems like cheating to me. If you have any advice on this matter that would be great I got back replies indicating that like me, they felt it prudent to modkill some or all of the masons in the game. Foolishness suggested I talk to blazinghand about it before I make any decision so I did. + Show Spoiler + [17:46:35] <Blazinghand|Wor> yo [17:46:55] <LSB> Hi [17:47:03] <LSB> I am wondering who you sent the quicktopic logs to [17:47:09] <Blazinghand|Wor> marv [17:47:42] <Blazinghand|Wor> don't worry no info about 3p was included, we didn't even talk about it [17:47:46] <Blazinghand|Wor> i thought this game just had scum though [17:48:03] <Blazinghand|Wor> i didn't send him a link either [17:48:08] <LSB> That's not the thing I am concerned about [17:48:12] <LSB> There is no 3P btw [17:48:25] <LSB> The main issue is you included mod posts made by me [17:48:33] <LSB> including one time stamped before the game started [17:48:54] <Blazinghand|Wor> which one is that [17:49:12] <Blazinghand|Wor> oh the #1 one [17:49:17] <Blazinghand|Wor> well that could be easily faked though right [17:49:26] <Blazinghand|Wor> for all they know i'm scum and included fake mod posts [17:49:40] <LSB> That's the problem, it would be a huge amount of effort to include the fake posts [17:49:49] <LSB> as well at posts time stamped near the date [17:50:04] <Blazinghand|Wor> but is that really more effort than faking the whole log? [17:50:17] <Blazinghand|Wor> i mean if i'm writing a fake log [17:50:25] <Blazinghand|Wor> what's stopping me from also writing a fake entry from you? [17:50:31] <Blazinghand|Wor> in any case, the pastebin has already expired: http://pastebin.com/j36BNjtD [17:51:51] <LSB> Does anyone else know that Bum is a mason? [17:51:54] <LSB> aside from Marv? [17:52:11] <Blazinghand|Wor> not that i know of, but marv could be lying to me when he said he wouldn't share the logs with anyone [17:52:26] <Blazinghand|Wor> also marv could be scum and the entire scumteam could know [17:52:41] <Blazinghand|Wor> or he could also be a mason with a couple masonbuddies and he'd definitely tell them [17:56:07] <Blazinghand|Wor> i didn't really see that post until after the pastebin had been posted, but at least i set it to a 1 hour expiry [17:56:17] <Blazinghand|Wor> unless marv copied it down it's lost forever [17:56:23] <Blazinghand|Wor> but i don't see what's in it that couldn't be faked pretty easily [17:56:52] <Blazinghand|Wor> i guess the mod posts have a certain style to them [17:56:58] <Blazinghand|Wor> that would be potentially not fakebale [17:57:04] <LSB> Time dates, Post number dates, Mod Posts, Mod Name [17:57:12] <Blazinghand|Wor> but... I can just change those [17:57:15] <Blazinghand|Wor> by editing the text [17:57:15] <Blazinghand|Wor> right [17:58:03] <LSB> that would take a long time [17:58:05] <LSB> and marve posted [17:58:06] <LSB> "Unsurprisingly there are logs and they are long enough that they can;t have been cooked up quickly. " [17:58:44] <Blazinghand|Wor> so is the problem the raw copy+paste? even if I had cut the mod posts out that would have been bad because it's hard to fake? shiiiiit [17:59:32] <LSB> the main reason is the mod posts [18:00:02] <Blazinghand|Wor> ah sorry man i didn't realize that mod posts wre no good [18:00:12] <LSB> Yeah, I understand it was a mistake [18:00:15] <Blazinghand|Wor> i didn't read the rules carefully enough [18:00:18] <LSB> And you didn't actually try to cheat [18:01:09] <LSB> however the problem now is that it is much more unfair for the mafia team [18:01:36] <LSB> and two of people where were under heavy supsicion of being mafia [18:01:40] <Blazinghand|Wor> but imagine, for a moment [18:01:43] <Blazinghand|Wor> i was scum [18:01:44] <LSB> suddenly became nearly mod confirmed [18:01:44] <Blazinghand|Wor> and i faked mod posts [18:01:46] <Blazinghand|Wor> would that be cheating? [18:02:03] <Blazinghand|Wor> because every QT starts with a mod post [18:02:14] <Blazinghand|Wor> so if I'm scum, I put together a QT with hopeless1, starting halfway through D1 [18:02:20] <Blazinghand|Wor> we backdate our timestamps [18:02:26] <Blazinghand|Wor> and add in "mod posts" using a 3rd account [18:02:30] <Blazinghand|Wor> we actually make a QT you see [18:02:32] <Blazinghand|Wor> and just modify the timestamps [18:02:38] <Blazinghand|Wor> if we did that, would that be cheating? [18:02:40] <LSB> Yeah that wouldn't be cheating [18:02:48] <Blazinghand|Wor> so what you're syaing is, i could have sent this exact pm to marv [18:02:50] <Blazinghand|Wor> and if iwere scum [18:02:53] <Blazinghand|Wor> it wouldn't be cheating [18:03:42] <LSB> unfortuantly it would take you far longer to make all the corrections to the time date [18:03:57] <Blazinghand|Wor> but it's the middle of N1, and we started fakeclaiming mason during D1 [18:04:01] <LSB> there is a huge difference from "I would like to see logs please" and you giving a copy soon [18:04:01] <Blazinghand|Wor> we had all the time in the world to do it [18:04:14] <Blazinghand|Wor> and, rayn had been asking me in pms for copies for hours [18:04:15] <LSB> and waiting for a long time [18:04:23] <Blazinghand|Wor> and I was stalling him while hopeless spoke to marv [18:04:41] <Blazinghand|Wor> sure, i gave it right away when marv asked, but it was not the first time i was asked [18:04:48] <Blazinghand|Wor> in fact, Ve JUST pmed me this: [18:04:53] <Blazinghand|Wor> <VisceraEyes_> There's the guy [18:04:53] <Blazinghand|Wor> <VisceraEyes_> Nearly confirmed town [18:04:59] <Blazinghand|Wor> even VE doesn't think of me as fully confirmed town [18:05:06] <Blazinghand|Wor> because he knows what has been done is fakeable [18:05:15] <Blazinghand|Wor> though, fwiw, he hasn't seen the logs [18:05:21] <LSB> I highly doubt that anyone would think of you guys as mafia [18:05:36] <Blazinghand|Wor> yeah, but on the other hand there are 3 masons claiming together [18:05:42] <Blazinghand|Wor> nobody would think of us as mafia even without your mod posts [18:05:47] <Blazinghand|Wor> if we just dumped our QT in the thread [18:05:52] <Blazinghand|Wor> I'll do that if you want, dump the QT without the mod posts [18:05:57] <Blazinghand|Wor> and reveal bum's status [18:06:06] <Blazinghand|Wor> nobody would even begin to doubt us [18:06:09] <LSB> and they don't show up dead even though they are a guarenteed kill? [18:06:21] <LSB> And if one of them flips red, suddenly they are all confirmed? [18:06:48] <Blazinghand|Wor> well i'm not saying it's a great strategy [18:06:55] <Blazinghand|Wor> but I could do it if you don't modkill me [18:06:57] <LSB> it's a pretty stupid strategy [18:07:05] <LSB> and a great way to lose [18:07:13] <Blazinghand|Wor> hopeless and I have already claimed mason [18:07:16] <Blazinghand|Wor> what's one more mason claim? [18:07:50] <Blazinghand|Wor> people will believe me too when i do it [18:08:05] <LSB> Theorecically without the pm log, you or hopless would probably be lynched tomorrow [18:08:29] <Blazinghand|Wor> what if i just post the QT without the mod post? there's 0 chance of getting lynched then [18:09:00] <LSB> Yes [18:09:02] <LSB> that would have been fine [18:09:10] <Blazinghand|Wor> well what if i just do that [18:09:43] <Blazinghand|Wor> that's equally unfakeable as scum, but includes no mod posts; i won't get lynche,d you don't have to modkill anyone [18:13:15] <LSB> Even if you remove the timestamps, post number and mod posts [18:13:30] <LSB> Marv knows that they were there [18:13:41] <LSB> and marv knows you were requested to remove them before posting it publically [18:14:20] <Blazinghand|Wor> well i was in violation of the rules by posting exerpts from a QT without redactin the mod posts so if you think it's the right move to modkill me, you are the host and can do what you want [18:14:30] <Blazinghand|Wor> I don't think it significantly altered the outcome of the game, but i could easily be wrong [18:14:56] <LSB> brutusthebrutePerson was signed in when posted 01-13-2014 05:43 PM ET (US) EDIT DELETE MOD Post: You are allowed to post reformatted logs of this forum as long as you do not include anything that I wrote, and do not include time codes. [18:15:43] <Blazinghand|Wor> hm. ooops. [18:16:35] <Blazinghand|Wor> wat should I do here This marks 3 warnings, each in more specificity about not posting so much information brutusthebrutePerson was signed in when posted 01-13-2014 12:40 PM ET (US) EDIT DELETE Revealing this quicktopic is considering cheating as it is a Mod Confirmation of your role and alignment brutusthebrutePerson was signed in when posted 01-13-2014 05:43 PM ET (US) EDIT DELETE MOD Post: You are allowed to post reformatted logs of this forum as long as you do not include anything that I wrote, and do not include time codes. I would advise you to leave off numbering to, or any indication that there is a 4th party in the logs The third being the warning given in the chat about the specificity of his post. And then this happened On January 14 2014 09:11 Blazinghand wrote: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=G5yaSxQw Unfortunately Blazinghand proceeded to post QT logs that did not have the proper editing done, disregarding the warnings I gave, and the concerns even with public logs, Marv would know that editing was requested for him. And thus I modkilled them for disregarding multiple warnings. Anyways, I stand by my decision and will answer questions or concerns. Night will be extended indefinitely until we arrive at a solution. | ||
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On January 14 2014 09:49 marvellosity wrote: So basically you told BH too late not to copy paste because he was already in the process of doing it LSB? wonderful Here is the timeline 1. Soft warning for not linking the quicktopic or any modconfirmable information 2. BlazingHand sends Log to Marv 3. Harsher warning to not include time dates, mod posts, and post numbers 4. I decide to ask for opinions from various community members 5. I begin IRC conversation with BH, telling him about these cheating concerns 6. BH decides to copy paste a second time (note: these are different logs than the one he sent Marv). I had warned BH repeatedly before he did the copy paste | ||
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Day 2 Begins After a long night with more bodies than expected the following people showed up dead WaveofShadow The Vanilla Town has died! suchdoge The Vanilla Town has died! thrawn2112 The Town Butcher has died! Poll: Restart Game? Yes (14) No (6) 20 total votes Your vote: Restart Game? Game Restart will not include masons | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=440856 if you want to play. | ||
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Xatalos Mafia justanothertownie Mafia BloodyC0bbler Mafia Godfather LSB Banking Mafia Roleblocker Aquanim Detective Captain Obvious Medic Mocsta Vig Alakaslam Vig Blazinghand Mason bumatlarge Mason Hopeless1der Mason thrawn2112 Millar raynpelikoneet marvellosity Mig DoctorHelvetica chinstrap Coagulation VisceraEyes gumshoe Koshi WaveofShadow suchdoge yamato77 Quicktopics http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/YE7DsEWMgCJg http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/mLyPiXmQBBK http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/uG2jK5Pqdr44 | ||
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On January 14 2014 10:37 Aquanim wrote: I knew mafia could give GF to someone and figued it'd probably be BC, unless you're saying you gave GF from BC to Vayne BC actually RNGed it. He has RNG (actual RNG) godfather a little too much in my games. They gave it to VA though | ||
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On January 14 2014 10:38 justanothertownie wrote: I agree. Felt really imbalanced. Pms, an almighty mayor, 3 confirmed town masons and a bunch of roles on top of that. Sorry guys, I didn't consult Foolishness when I moved the setup down to 25 people. I'll probably have him doing the setup for the restart if it happens | ||
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