EPTII Titanic Mini Mafia
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On December 09 2013 18:27 kushm4sta wrote: Dont know if anyone brought this up, but the janitor has the ability to hide the alignment of one of the mafia's NKs... Doesn't that seem really pointless? It also hides the role so it's not pointless. Also it is useful if they happen to kill the SK and hide the flip as town does not know if the SK is dead or not. | ||
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Is every role guaranteed to be in a game? Can there be more than 1 of any role? Is the SK guaranteed to be in the game? | ||
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On December 10 2013 06:44 purpletrator wrote: You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf? Worst post in thread. ##Vote: purpletrator | ||
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On December 10 2013 07:18 Alakaslam wrote: Kusplain? Hello sir, I promise not to get mad at you this game If purpletrator can reasonably explain what he is going to achieve with that post i'm going to unvote. Now i gotta sleep! cya tomorrow. Please don't be useless Alakaslam ok? | ||
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On December 10 2013 16:52 Plutarch wrote: Is xigxag new or a smurf? Why are you suggesting you are not even reading the guy's posts you are voting for? | ||
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I don't think he is scum though and i think we should lynch purple for his terrible contributions that seem to be not trying to achieve anything and are based on things people can't even argue against in the first place. | ||
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He votes for LSB based on this: On December 10 2013 06:44 purpletrator wrote: You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf? Ya, sure. Reveal please![/QUOTE] It was a hypothetical. I'm not revealing my identity. Good to know you dont give a shit about the lynch. ##Vote: LSB[/QUOTE] First of all the first contribution is never going to achieve anything. What's LSB supposed to answer as town or as scum and how does purple gain something from it? There is no way it's going to do anything. Then he calls the question hypothetical, but still it somehow gives him a reason to vote for LSB. Why? And how does this tell him LSB "does not give shit about the lynch"? This whole interaction makes no sense from the beginning because there is no possible way purple is going to gain any sort of information on LSB by this. Then this happens: On December 10 2013 08:55 purpletrator wrote: i went to look at LSB's old games, only actually looked at PYP which is still ongoing and decided I'd seen enough to unvote him. This is why he unvotes LSB. Does this look like a reason to unvote? Because "LSB does not read properly in either of the games". This makes him town how? Regardless of LSB's alignment in PYP game this certainly does not make him town because not reading properly is not alignment indicative and doing something in both of these games does not make LSB town here. On top of that, nobody is even allowed to agree/diagree with that "meta-read" because the PYP game is going on. The whole evolution of his LSB-read and interactions with him are completely nonsensical, can't possibly achieve anything and do not even have any sort of logic behind them. | ||
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On December 10 2013 17:40 Plutarch wrote: For the record. I don't think Xigxag is a smurf. Actually yeah, you are right. Why did you call him out for his kush read? Didn't it seem to you he actually did believe in his logic behind the read? What does he gain from giving kush a town read as if we assume kush is either alignment? | ||
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Why we should lynch purpletrator: He votes for LSB based on this: On December 10 2013 07:33 purpletrator wrote: You mean to tell me you have no concern over the erroneous logic LSB used to vote me? You honestly think my response is worse than "smurfs=mafia"? To actually answer your question, I'm wondering why LSB is wasting my time and wanted to see if he's actually trying to get a response or just trolling. When he ignored my response I chalked it up to 'just trolling'. Then you called me out, he noticed my response and now wants to fish for my identity. Now it looks scummy. It was a hypothetical. I'm not revealing my identity. Good to know you dont give a shit about the lynch. ##Vote: LSB First of all the first contribution is never going to achieve anything. What's LSB supposed to answer as town or as scum and how does purple gain something from it? There is no way it's going to do anything. Then he calls the question hypothetical, but still it somehow gives him a reason to vote for LSB. Why? And how does this tell him LSB "does not give shit about the lynch"? This whole interaction makes no sense from the beginning because there is no possible way purple is going to gain any sort of information on LSB by this. Then this happens: On December 10 2013 08:55 purpletrator wrote: i went to look at LSB's old games, only actually looked at PYP which is still ongoing and decided I'd seen enough to unvote him. This is why he unvotes LSB. Does this look like a reason to unvote? Because "LSB does not read properly in either of the games". This makes him town how? Regardless of LSB's alignment in PYP game this certainly does not make him town because not reading properly is not alignment indicative and doing something in both of these games does not make LSB town here. On top of that, nobody is even allowed to agree/diagree with that "meta-read" because the PYP game is going on. The whole evolution of his LSB-read and interactions with him are completely nonsensical, can't possibly achieve anything and do not even have any sort of logic behind them. | ||
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Again do you think he is using shitty logic on purpose and when half of the thread calls him out for it he stubbornly stands by his words instead of concluding he might be wrong and that might not in fact make kush town? | ||
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I see some dissonance between your first point and your second. Why would you be so inclined towards policy on low activity players when you have just acknowledged that people can be town and not be active? Perhaps as you say you only require town to be active and you are, in fact, scum? That is, as Cora says, clearly twisting his words. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436388¤tpage=19#374 ?? | ||
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I am not convinced by this push on Xatalos. In my experience he is more likely to take a back seat as scum than to jump around driving discussion. In which game(s) do you base your observations you are talking about here? | ||
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On December 10 2013 20:09 Plutarch wrote: I can't tell you that as It would probably reveal my identity. I Dessert Mini Mafia there are a lot of similitaries in Xatalos' posting in comparsion to this game D1. Posting frequency at the start of the game is also quite similar to this game. There are also certain things Xatalos does as scum but i don't really see him doing as town (although i still need to look into NWM to confirm that as Sicilian does not really work as a comparsion as it was a PM game). But but, i really want to know where you and kushmasta are coming from with this, especially kushmasta as Xatalos treats him exactly the same way in Dessert he treats him in this game. Smells like bullshit. | ||
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On January 13 2013 10:00 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, his behaviour is anti-town. But is it scummy? Have you ever seen a scum player opening the discussion with something that will make people less opposed to lynching him? On January 13 2013 11:07 Xatalos wrote: Why are you even playing this game if you don't want to put in effort? I can't imagine scum playing like that, but that's still not an excuse to play anti-town. On January 13 2013 11:17 Xatalos wrote: Well, I haven't seen anything really scummy yet. Mostly I'm concerned with your entrance to the thread and thrawn's lack of engagement. And Kushm4sta's attitude, although it's not actually scummy, but it's still anti-town. On January 13 2013 13:56 Xatalos wrote: Well, you did make a huge comeback later in the game. But you've posted more stuff so far in this game than during the early game there... On January 13 2013 14:12 Xatalos wrote: Well... I can actually relate to that kind of thinking. I was under heavy suspicion last game for switching my reads based on others' opinions. It's still scummy though, but on the other hand, it's a blatantly scummy thing to do that actual scum wouldn't do (at least so clearly). Conclusion? Tentatively town, purely based on you doing too many anti-town/scummy things for it to make any sense as scum. It sounds stupid, yeah, but it's actually logical. Playing like that makes you get heavy pressure and you end up most likely claiming scum at some point unless you're an amazing player. (It's pronounced Ksatalos btw, lol) Here is a series of extremely wishy-washy posts from Dessert Mini mafia from Xatalos. Compare this to what Artanis said and quoted from him and tell me if they are similar or not? This is also ~20% of Xatalos' posts from D1 in Dessert - Sloosh made a case on him based on this and some other things right after those posts. I also looked over Xatalos' posts on Sicilian and NWM and in no posts he uses this "this could be scummy but is it in fact?" he does in this game and Dessert. Here is what JJD said in reference (this game): + Show Spoiler + On December 10 2013 14:29 JarJarDrinks wrote: FOSing Xatalos. I agree w/ the whole flinging poo analysis. And this post: Just really seems like he's trying to explain how he's trying to play to his town meta and he's pissed that Artan isn't seeing it that way. I'm also noticing that he's giving alot of his reads a qualifier. A bunch of "this guy is scummy but he could be town too" or vice versa. Check these: Does he have any reads he's confident about? Notice the similitaries? Now wtf are you talking about Plutach and kush? | ||
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On December 10 2013 20:38 Holyflare wrote: it's iamperfection i figured that's the most likely answer too | ||
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On December 10 2013 20:44 Plutarch wrote: I was talking about this very game! That I didn't play in. Interesting. In case you are not lying about the game you are talking about how do you explain your use of words [u]in my experience when it cannot possibly be "in your experience"?[/i] | ||
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Kush and Plutarch does either one of you have anything to say about my post on Xatalos? | ||
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On December 10 2013 20:57 Holyflare wrote: I'm not so sure they match up. In the ones that you linked they are all fluff and undecided. In this game he's discussing things and although is undecided I don't get the same feeling of style from it. I am more interested why a skilled player like Plutarch makes a half-arsed meta read on him. That's quite inexcusible, given that i think the nature of the posts is in fact quite similar. In both of the games Xatalos calls kushmasta anti-town but not necessarily scum. He calls people out and then says "but while this could be scummy it also could be not". He does not reach into any conclusions while prodding left and right. This early on in the game i would agree it does not necessarily make him scum - as i said, but what bothers me is how certain people defend him based on false/bad evidence. | ||
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On December 10 2013 21:10 kushm4sta wrote: @rayne i looked at dessert and it looks like xatalos is acting almost opposite of that. As scum in dessert his early game was giving reluctant townreads based on blatant antitowniness. This game he wants to lynch me for antitowniness. Actually unless i ahve misunderstood something he doesn't. | ||
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Grackaroni and Xatalos comments on my case on purple? Spaghetticus i second Plutarch. In LXIII you were quite clearly town from your posting on D1. I don't see even a shoadow from that towninees here. What are you doing? | ||
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I see you "don't like" Artanis either. Do you think he's less scummy than purple? What about Corazon? What's the purpose of this? If you have read my filter and know who's my vote on you'd know the answers to these questions. Also what do you think of Grackaroni's answer to my case on purple? | ||
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On December 10 2013 21:50 Xatalos wrote: Your vote is on purpletrator, so I'd assume you think he's the scummiest. What I meant to say is: what's your opinion on Artanis and Corazon at the moment? Hmmm. I don't really understand what Grackaroni is saying. Apparently he means to refute your case by saying it's obvious.......... Well, I guess he means that it's just stating the obvious and not much of a case. Weird to randomly point that out though. And why would being obvious make a case "weak", I really wonder. My thoughts on Artanis have not really changed since i last posted them (after the "i don't like him" post). I agree with what Plutarch said about Corazon as i said, i don't think anything else in his posting is scummy. Grackaroni basically does not even address my case because it's not about if purple is clueless or not. That's scummy as hell. | ||
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On December 10 2013 21:55 Plutarch wrote: Is it wrong to be paranoid about scum rayne right now? Yeah it is, but elaborate plz. | ||
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On December 10 2013 22:00 Xatalos wrote: Well, I think he's certainly being more productive than he was in GoT Mafia (as Mafia). There he was mostly just distracting and hindering the discussion. I guess his string of posts about my meta is a bit like that, but there are also valid points in that (unlike most of what he talked/spammed about in GoT). I'm still slightly paranoid after GoT, though. Could you elaborate more on that because afaik i did never try to "distract people's read on you" as you seem to be implying here. I was not calling you scum for what i posted. I was calling out people who gave an incorrect meta-read on you. | ||
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On December 10 2013 22:02 Grackaroni wrote: That is the entirety of your case. You said he had a shitty reason for a vote/unvote. He thinks that LSB not reading his comment somehow makes LSB scum and that LSB wanting him to reveal his identity is scummy. I agree that his vote is stupid. That is all that you have shown. dumb does not always equal scum. My case on purple is that his interactions with LSB have no intention in proving his towniness or figuring out LSB's alignment. You certainly are misrepresenting the case intentionally or do not understand it. | ||
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On December 10 2013 22:13 Plutarch wrote: You played like this in persona 4. that is what I am worried about I guess. Afaik i was town in that game and not really, no, i did not play like this. | ||
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On December 03 2013 12:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: No worries Bereft i played like shit. On December 03 2013 12:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: I promise i will never be this bad in a mafia game ever. On December 03 2013 16:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are referring to me i do know exactly what i did wrong. | ||
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On December 10 2013 22:20 Plutarch wrote: Catch 22. Is the game I meant. Well if you think i am playing like in that game you have no worries as i will still lynch scum on D1. | ||
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On December 10 2013 22:22 Grackaroni wrote: sell your case Rayn. I think my case is pretty clear and i think you should comment on my conclusions instead of the posts i quote. | ||
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##Vote: Grackaroni | ||
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On December 10 2013 22:34 Plutarch wrote: Nothing much really. just thinking aloud mostly. Clearly you are very townie right now. What do you think about this sheep train of distrust rayn? | ||
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On December 10 2013 22:42 Plutarch wrote: We aren't going to lynch you. You are too big of an asset as town to even think about lynching you for at least 2 days. So i'm not worried. If people try and lynch you I will talk sense into them. Your cases make sense. I wouldn't be worried if I was you. As to the sheeping. Townies sheep at least as often as scum. I'm not worried about getting lynched because i don't get lynched if i don't want to (i.e. when i stay level-headed). I am worried about people trying to affect my level-headness by spreading distrust on my alignment without any reason to do so while having a "reasonable" meta-reasoning to "wonder if this is in fact town rayn". | ||
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On December 10 2013 22:49 Holyflare wrote: GRACK how is his case bad in any shape or form? This post alone could just be an entire case and it would be fine, I've highlighted the relevant bit for you (yes all of it). Purple states that his vote on LSB was because he was neglecting to read posts about the target he was on. He then justifies his unvote by saying that he has read an ongoing game - where he does NOT know LSB's alignment - and he does the same thing. What logical thought process is that? TL:DR He does not know LSB's alignment in PYP so how can he unvote based on that game unless he knows his alignment in this one. It's not even a matter of if he knows LSB's alignment in that game. Whatever his alignment in PYP is if he does something he did there in this game it does not make him any alignment here. If he does "miss key points in posts" as town, he could as easily miss them as scum and vice versa. It's a weak ass backpedal from a vote that was weak-ass in the first place (as i clearly pointed out in my case). The whole interaction between purple and LSB does not make any sense because nothing purple says is can't evolve into an alignment indicative answer from LSB and he does not even give a clear read on LSB after the interaction. He is not interested in finding out LSB's alignment -> what's the point of the conversation? | ||
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On December 10 2013 22:55 kushm4sta wrote: Maybe he does know LSB's alignment?? really inappropriate for anyone to talk about that game at all. That's another point, as i said. You can't even say if you agree/disagree with his meta-read.... How fucking stupid is that? | ||
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On December 10 2013 23:01 Grackaroni wrote: I don't understand why you would reasonably expect somebody who gives an accusation of, "he didn't see my post? Now I know the truth. He is not trolling; he is scum" to make a lot of posts that would be helpful in finding out others alignment. Because he is a smurf! He's supposed to know how to play this game! People who are supposed to know how to play this game do not as town: 1) Ask questions / make arguments that do not contribute towards scumhunting. 2) Reason their reads / voting / unvoting with something noone is not even allowed to question or with something they are not even allowed to talk about more themselves and that is btw bullshit and non-alignemnt indicative. | ||
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On December 10 2013 23:19 Xatalos wrote: rayn, comment on this. Do you think what Artanis is saying makes any sense? I think what he says about Cora's posting makes sense. I don't understand you two going against each other because both of yours original reasons were not good imo and now it has turned into an OMGUS war from what it looks like to me. You are both kinda missing the point and arguing about something that's clearly not alignment indicative. | ||
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To me it looks like you are both missing the original point and arguing about something that is already explained by the other one of you and i don't think what you are arguing about makes either of you scum. | ||
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purple, Grackster, Spaghetticus, Cora (when he comes back) -> far more better targets of discussion atm imo. | ||
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Spaghetticus is more interested in defending himself than contributing onto anything that's been going on in the game. He just pops in and gives some irrelevant comments about something. Cora needs to answer Plutarch's case on him. I think i've been pretty clear in what i think about purple. | ||
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On December 11 2013 00:18 Xatalos wrote: Hm. That seems to mirror my thoughts pretty well. I'll have to reread yet though. What about Kush? I think that, weirdly enough, he's started to move from the policy lynch category into somewhat useful. That list post though... So easy for Mafia to do something like that. So pretty null for now IMO. What Vayne says about kush is most likely true. While i hate it i can't say he's scum for it. I would love to see something other than "these dudes are town because of activity" - even a piece of kush-logic-scumhunting. If he remains useless vigi's shoot him. | ||
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Don't you think this way you effectively refrain from contributing towards any lynch and therefore towards scumhunting? Do you think this is townie? Because to me you are as useless as Slam atm.. | ||
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On December 11 2013 01:03 Corazon wrote: Is anyone else concerned that Xatalos is taking pains to call his own play townie? I am more concerned in you finishing up reading the thread and commenting on things you should comment on / feel are worth commenting. | ||
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On December 11 2013 03:01 bumatlarge wrote: Don't worry, I'm reading your posts you to are a big question asker, but you seem to do that alot anyway.Put it this way. I'd like to enter Day 2 with everyone here except pandain. I'm not advocating a sort of no-lynch policy, but I don't think we have a good lynch. What is important in this thread at the moment is debatable. I want to keep the accusations streamlined, and I don't want 6 kushmastas giving me their green reads. The pressure levels are sweet. That's probably what's most important. Wait what? We are under 24h into the game and the only thing you want to talk about is someone who has not posted. Do you think people voting for him now does: 1) make him magically come here posting sooner? 2) leave us with more information than pressuring other people even if he does not come back and we lynch him? Also do you think Pandain as mafia is type of a player that goes inactive for any other than non-game related reasons? If not, why exactly are you trying to shut down discussion? | ||
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On December 11 2013 03:16 bumatlarge wrote: But he hasss posted. Information is overrated! He will come if we vote him. He is the missing corner piece to a fully fledged town! MEGAZORD ASSEMBLED! ?!?!?! I don't meta this early. Why would you think that last statement. Am I distracting you? To me it seemed like you wanted to vote for an inactive, encouraged everyone else to vote for an inactive and therefore shut down any productive discussion until Pandain returns. Apparently this is not true (since you started talking about other things) so carry on, my post is no longer relevant. What do you think of my cases on Grackaroni and purpletrator? | ||
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What do you think of Grack & purple? | ||
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On December 11 2013 04:57 Grackaroni wrote: lol all of the cases were shitty. Plutarchs case on Cora was shitty. Artanis' case on Xatalos was shitty. That doesn't really tell me much about who is what. fyi that is how I filled up my filter at the start of the game in time to die. I just looked for the bad cases being thrown about and made an effort of showing why they were bad. How about you make a good one then yourself? Your case on me atm seems quite convincing. Is there any reason you seem to only want to contribute towards bad town atmosphere? | ||
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On December 11 2013 05:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus. Actually my plan was to convince you guys into voting him but there is still 24h to go on this phase. Spaghetticus looks scummy for being overly defensive when people were just trying to get him into reading the thread and giving out reads. He always found some excuse to comment on something that did not make him go towards telling who is mafia. | ||
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On December 11 2013 05:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Can you tell me exactly what you find suspicious of Grack? Is it that he voted you without pressuring you? He hasn't really done anything but this: The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't know what purpose that serves or how he thinks he is helping the town. By telling me i am not allowed to call out people for shitting on other people because i played bad in another game? Why would someone who is town do that? | ||
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On December 10 2013 16:33 VayneAuthority wrote: I will say though that playing as scum last game you probably realize that Slam basically adds another scum to the game as either alignment. So I'm fine with lynching him regardless unless something very convincing goes down. I don't see anything that tells me otherwise at least yet. | ||
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 Spaghetticus, this has now been asked many times. Who are your scumreads? Last day you managed to not catch up while you were doing it, instead you made ~60 posts that said just about nothing. Now it's time to start giving out reads. If you say you don't have any, i won't believe you, because while you were not comfortable with any scumreads in LXIII at this point, you still had this to say: + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2013 03:50 Spaghetticus wrote: I started this a little after Artanis' prodding, it's taken me awhile. I’m going to have to read through again soon, as not everything is sticking with me. It’s currently 5am and I’ve had four hours sleep in the last 48 hours. I’m also having difficulty catching up on some of the terminology, though I’m gradually cluing in. I’ll just splurge out my impressions. I won’t make any formal cases just yet, I want to put my thoughts on paper then attend to them once I’m rested. Apologies in advance for poor formatting. I’m comfortable with confirming Yamato town. This may seem redundant since that’s the general consensus, but I’m very stringent so this is actually a pretty big step. On my next readthrough I’ll be fine tooth combing for Mocsta and VE. I’ve got precious history with Mocsta, but he’s also quite active. I want to confirm him town if possible. VE seems like the next most obvious, given the amount of material he has provided. I don’t like some of VE’s towncalls, but I think they’ve already been covered by others. LoneMeow masoning incident: I find this unsuspicious. I’m probably more interested in those who tried to force this to be an issue. Artanis and SS: SS seems dense. The projected paradigm within which he claims to view the world where everyone’s decision making is based entirely on the single factor of whether or not victory is achieved, is silly. Does he seriously expect people to sit through a month of his needless abuse in order to slightly increase their chances of winning a prizeless endeavour? Does he seriously think that by espousing his (so far generally unimpressive) logic to the exclusion of compromise in the pursuit of cooperation, he will achieve his intended position of mayor? I understand that some people have difficulty getting along with others, but it seems to me a cover. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on his meta. For someone who proclaims his own competency as a vet at the beginning of the thread, this incompetency is not consistent from my (admittedly limited) perspective. It could very easily be used to obscure scummy motives. Admittedly, there have also been town tells. I've mixed feelings here. Grack: The trolling seems a poor move. BC is hammering him, and IMO rightly so. Grack has fluffed, and Grack has not done much else. I can only think that: - Grack does not care (useless town) - Grack is in some way trying to modify his meta (unlikely) - Grack is trying to scumbait (somewhat more likely) - Grack is scum (most likely) The Kush4prez line was possibly scumbait, but honestly I don’t see how a town Grack was planning on taking that bait (if successful) and then convincing town of his plan post hoc. The inevitable arse biting his actions have reaped was entirely foreseeable. It’s difficult to see him as town, as his actions have caused little but discord. Yamato lynching BC: I’m not sure, but did I miss the case? I see BC as good, I don’t want him to be scum. I’m not sure why that makes us need to lynch him without further information, as so far he’s been valuable. Unless I’m missing something, Mocsta was right to demand more reasoning for yamato’s platform based on BC. That said, Mocsta’s reasoning about cost/benefit for lynching BC confused me. If it’s what I think it is, it’s suspiciously dull. Sharrant: I’m not entirely certain how this became a thing, I’ll look into it in my next read. There didn't seem enough information at the time to make reads, that it was mentioned so many times sort of makes me think of artificial intervention. Kushmasta: His propensity for unpredictable play makes him unsuitable for mayor. Everyone knows this, though I think some take it too far. Policy lynching him seems both poor play and in poor taste. Using him as a vehicle for lynchbait/trolling is also pretty shit. I think people attempting to bring Kush into the spotlight are hard pressed to provide a believable town motive. Other than that, there are a lot of people that are sliding around on my scale, but also a lot of undercommitment in posts. If you have a read, please don’t just state your conclusion, as it only begs the question, and junks up the thread with people demanding that you elaborate. You may feel like you’re getting straight to the point #lessismore #quietconfidence but the end result is a less cohesive discussion, and a less effective town. Alakaslam do you understand people do not want to decipher your posts? I have no clue what you are talking about besides you seem to be thinking me and Spaghetticus are same alignment? Why is that? Why can't you just write your thoughts instead of making them an unreadable code? That does not help anyone because unless you have something to say that only one of the people should hear that's not productive, and at this point of the game you can't possibly have something that only one person needs to hear. We need to all hear and understand what you are thinking, and tbh i am willing to lynch you if what you are doing now does not stop. It does not help. It's not also people's job to ask you about your thoughts. It's your job to make yourself heard and offer opinions that help us lynching mafia. You can't just behind "but noone talked with me". If that's so, make people talk to you. Offer them something to talk about. Who should we lynch in your opinion? Why? bumatlarge i am a bit puzzled, why exactly do you want to lynch Pandain and do you think he is the best lynch today? I'll ask straight up here, are you even trying to find mafia? It does not really look like it atm. Pandain why exactly did you oppose the policy lynch idea so hard? I think you are good enough to know that even if Slam is town and he continues doing what he does he's never an asset to the town. He'll not be listened to, he is a lynchbait later on unless you want to decide that he is town now (which is stupid in the first place) and he is less likely to make right decisions in his voting because he does not let his train of thought to be know for other people -> does not get feedback regarding it. So all in all he is a random vote and a really likely mislynch in a situation town might not have mislynch. How do you justify lynching / not lynching him then? Also do you have anything else to say than opposing the policy lynch and accusing bumatlarge for his vote? yes it's bad - does it make him mafia? Why will mafia bumatlarge say "Spaghetticus is mafia, i will vote for Pandain"? Do you think he is some random noob that contradicts himself every sentence he writes? Other than that i agree with you, bumatlarge has not really been helping. Plutarch you here? Or anyone? | ||
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purple starts contributing or we lynch him. In case both of those do not happen one gets lynched other one vigged. In case both of those happen we lynch the scummiest dude. | ||
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On December 11 2013 20:15 Xatalos wrote: I'd prefer lynching someone like Artanis or Corazon over Alakaslam. Anti-town/lurker lynches tend to be just giant bandwagons where nobody learns anything. Even if the coin-flip is a success and he flips scum, it doesn't tell almost anything about the voters/non-voters. It's easy to vote for a player like that no matter what alignment the player or his voter is... Well if you do not want them lynched better start telling them to contribute. | ||
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I woke up today and i read 10 pages of shit about policy lych / not policy lych and it made meangry because those posts could have been something uselful. It stops now. | ||
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On December 11 2013 20:53 Xatalos wrote: That's a noble attitude, but I prefer to focus only on the current game. And I don't want to lose now if it means (possibly) better games somewhere in the future. And yes, i am focusing on the current game. Slam and purple at this point are no help to town, they help mafia with their actions. That's the truth regardless of their alignment. Therefore they should be lynched. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 10 2013 13:35 LSB wrote: General comments: purpletrator is being incredibly defensive and showing off as paranoid to me xatalos has been powerplaying quite hard day 1, and typically lynches of major town voices go badly day 1. Push Post Personally I think the most important post so far is this I've already mentioned how I felt the initial read of Cora was incredibly forced. This can easily attributed to Holyflare's overeagerness. What is important to keep an eye out are the bandwagoners. Or the "bait and switch" approach. Make a flimsy case, wait for someone to quickly jump on your plan, and finger the bandwagoner as mafia. The logic behind this is that very few townies would be willing to push a bad lynch, but a mafia would be willing to push many lynches on greenies regarless of the contents of the lynches. Indeed he continues his bandwagony attitude. Although there have only been two posts from him, bait and switch has a 100% success rate (n = 1), and I might as well go with it. I am seriously concerned about his willingness to support lynches without contributing much personal insights. ##unvote ##Vote; sidesprang On December 11 2013 00:32 LSB wrote: Out of all the games I've played why are we talking about the one I am currently in. PM the host for obs if you really want to know my alignment in PYP that bad. I've already stated how I think the Corazon lynch is just a huge bandwagon, so I won't vote for him. I'm glad to see someone feels that Purpletrator is being overly defensive Rather than being nonsensical I saw it as being paranoid and believing there was a serious case on him and a need to defend himself. He handled that far too poorly, I chalked it up as bad play at the time, but this paranoia does bother me. ##unvote ##Vote Purpletrator On December 11 2013 11:33 LSB wrote: I thought it was fine, come lynch sidesprang http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436388¤tpage=20#389 On December 11 2013 11:34 LSB wrote: Dunno, no one was talking about it so I decided to pressure slam. I'd rather lynch sidesprang if we get the traction On December 11 2013 12:04 LSB wrote: LETS GET THIS WAGON GOING GAIS ##unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang You make a case on sidesprang. You don't try to convince anyone to lynch him and switch your vote based on my case. After this you seem to be wanting to push sidesprang lynch instead. But in the next post not really.. Your vote is not even on him. Then you put your vote back on him. I assume it's because the "bait and switch" strategy? Meaning "mafia did not hop on "easy" lynch therefore sidesprang is mafia" correct? I don't find this reason acceptable to lynch someone, especially as you have explained the "strategy" in your original post where you vote for sidesprang.. So, srsly, wtf? Explain your behavior. | ||
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I also like kush and Xata, I in general agree with a lot of what they are saying and they are playing very pro town imo. Interesting. If you like what Xatalos has said why do you seem to not have a read on Artanis because that's what Xatalos has mostly talked about? | ||
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On December 11 2013 22:02 Plutarch wrote: To be honest, this kind of thing is pretty easy to fake as scum and doesn't really make me lean town on spag. I'm actually leaning scum on spag at the moment because he is active but not contributing anything to scum hunting. He is barely providing reads at all and doesn't seem to be that invested in the lynch. (parked his vote on slam early day one and left it there.) So yeah spag scummy to me. If you post but do zero scum hunting then you are scummy in my eyes. On December 11 2013 20:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Xatalos: Corazon is highly emotional player who contradicts himself as town, a lot. To me it seems like he's just pissed off for accusations against him because he finds them unreasonable. Stupid? Yes. Scummy? Not necessarily. He's far more reasonable and tries to control his emotions as scum. I don't see anything scummy in what he has said this game, mor likely it's just frustration. What you just quoted from Spaghetticus is attacking Cora for being emo. That's not scumhunting, that's an easy way to attack someone who says dumb stuff. The fact is Spag was here last night, he said he will catch up and share his thoughts. He ended up not catching up and and instead made 60 fluff posts about something irrelevant (defended himself against people who just wanted him to share his opinions). I find that highly suspicious. It has to be you. You always do read the thread this way and post whatever thoughts i post regarding same posts. | ||
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On December 11 2013 22:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Interesting. If you like what Xatalos has said why do you seem to not have a read on Artanis because that's what Xatalos has mostly talked about? sidesprang finds Xatalos' thoughts really good and has a town read on him. Xatalos mainly talks about Artanis yet sidesprang does not mention Artanis at all in his post. Shouldn't he have a scumread on him? | ||
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I also like kush and Xata, I in general agree with a lot of what they are saying and they are playing very pro town imo. | ||
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On December 11 2013 23:27 Spaghetticus wrote: Also Rayne, why so vicious? I actually want to know. Do not dodge this question pls. Because you have now made about 70 posts and all you come up with is "kush is scum with Plutarch" with some terribad reasoning.. | ||
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On December 11 2013 23:36 Plutarch wrote: Anyway. I'm not sure if that case makes Spag more or less likely to be town. Generally people making conspiracy theory cases such as that are more likely to be town due to the greater likelihood of townies being paranoid etc. But the case is also awful and doesn't ring true to me, after so much time and after apparently being on his second read through of the thread I would expect something more than that. What do you think rayn? Is spag more or less likely to be scum after reading that case? Just look at the post he made in LXIII half past D1 where he shared his thoughts. Seriously, his behavior in this game and there is like comparing a day and a night.. | ||
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You just gave three "scumreads" then backpedalled from all of them in like 5min. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391615&user=Spaghetticus&view=all Trends: lynch all lurkers some fluff about people that doesn't say anything no scumhunting lynch all lurkers some people's flips confirm some people in some way no scumhunting lynch all lurkers yeah seems quite similar. | ||
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On December 12 2013 01:09 Spaghetticus wrote: Rayn I want you to actually point out the bad logic rather than just casually calling everything I say bad. Why is it bad? I'm pretty good at logic, I have a feeling you're just not good at it (99.5 on my last formal logic test), or are deliberately banging the wardrum for a mislynch. I'm sick of your mindless aggression. At least I go through each of my motions. No it's pretty simple. All people wanted from you was to tell who you think is mafia. You have not done so. Instead you have made everything else that contributes nothing to the game. That's it, that's why you are mafia. | ||
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Who is mafia and why? | ||
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Could you answer this: On December 10 2013 19:03 Plutarch wrote: I disagree. It didn't make sense that someone could state they aren't going to be super active (as town presumably) and then lynch based on an activity metric. Regardless that was my first post which are always slight stretches. I find the part where Cora refuses outright to answer my question and instead forcefully derails the discussion to be much more interesting. On December 10 2013 19:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Plutarch you mean this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436388¤tpage=19#374 ?? On December 10 2013 19:09 Plutarch wrote: It starts from that post and continues on until his extended absence. I think that's a reasonable accusation against you and you should answer it. After that could you tell us who would you like to see lynched? | ||
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On December 12 2013 01:48 kushm4sta wrote: rayn i see what you are saying about spaghetti. i think he is just off this game. He already said he's not invested yet. My read is pretty thin so it's more of a hunch. Anyone read corazon's last post? The ratio of size to content of that post is the highest in the game. Seriously kush? Do you believe this? The dude has nearly the largest filter in this game. | ||
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On December 12 2013 02:14 VayneAuthority wrote: I have one goal today and one goal only. If you think I would help town get rid of alakaslam as scum I can't help you. That's actually quite an interesting comment Vayne. What you very well know is that even if Slam doesn't get lynched he will most likely get shot on N1. Why would you not help get rid of him as scum, regardless of his alignment? | ||
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On December 12 2013 02:20 VayneAuthority wrote: I've already pretty much answered all of this In this game the thread sentiment actually suggests vigi's WILL shoot useless people. Let's consider a scenario where you are scum. If Slam is scum you: 1) can reasonably assume a vigi will shoot him on N1 anyways so 2) when you lynch him instead you gain towncredit 3) even if you don't succeed, you gain town credit when he flips red 4) you don't need to contribute anything useful If Slam is town you: 1) can't be held responsible for anything scummy because it's a pro-town thing to suggest a policy lynch on him anyways 2) you don't need to contribute anything useful So, why again is it unreasonable to assume you would vouch for his lynch as mafia? | ||
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On December 12 2013 02:26 purpletrator wrote: I edited that quote, heres the full one: + Show Spoiler + On December 10 2013 13:08 purpletrator wrote: Cora, do you know rayn's townplay? If so, how would you characterize it? He accused Xata of going after you for sleeping. Thats not why Xata went after you imo. Cora is seeing something that isnt there and I want to know if he has any inclination as to what your usual mode of operation is. I think he's pursuing a target out of OMGUS instead of content and is seeing red because he's hyped up on rage. I was trying to talk him down to get a more objective view of Xata's intentions without explicitly telling him what Xata was doing. What Corazon says about Xatalos there is completely reasonable. It is as much reaction hunting (if you want to call it that) than what Xatalos did. | ||
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On December 12 2013 02:29 VayneAuthority wrote: because I would never, ever help town get rid of somebody so detrimental to town. He adds another scumplayer to my team, why would I want to get rid of him ever? I could just sheep you on spag or something dumb like that. I know exactly what it looks like. Fair enough, just wanted to be sure what you meant. Are you suggesting Spaghetticus is town? | ||
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On December 12 2013 02:33 VayneAuthority wrote: Yea he was one of the first to want to lynch Slam so I have him as town until further notice. Hmm.. I don't think suggesting a policy lynch at the start of the game is alignment indicative of him, especially when, as you said, it's nowhere near to be true (TL towns). That's probably the easiest way to appear contributive and have strong opinions. The target does not really matter. | ||
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On December 12 2013 02:29 VayneAuthority wrote: because I would never, ever help town get rid of somebody so detrimental to town. He adds another scumplayer to my team, why would I want to get rid of him ever? I could just sheep you on spag or something dumb like that. I know exactly what it looks like. On December 12 2013 02:39 VayneAuthority wrote: it's not ridiculous at all if you consider how I play mafia. I KILL these kind of players at night because I find it more enjoyable to play with people that can actually scumhunt and try to trick them. Between that and my blue kill sniping I don't see how it is farfetch'd at all. Can you explain the contradiction Vayne? | ||
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##unvote ##vote VayneAuthority | ||
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On December 12 2013 02:56 VayneAuthority wrote: at any rate, look into lynching kush and rayn after this considering they both claim to be able to read me, my last post No reason to stop playing if you are town. I just want you to explain the contradiction. | ||
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On December 12 2013 02:52 purpletrator wrote: You said you'd never kill him, then you said you'd NK him to make the game more fun for yourself. Direct and absolute contradiction (that I do not find scummy, but its there). Why don't you find that scummy? He originally used that as a reason why he is not mafia (because getting rid of Slam is not beneficial to him in any case) and later on said he does not want to play with "bad" players, which goes against his original justification of himself being town. | ||
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It has nothing to do with ego. It has to do wit hthe fact he is trying justify why he is town by reasoning X and later on saying he would never do X. He straight out says "i would never do this as scum therefore i am town" and then he says "i would totally do this as scum". And you don't think it's scummy? | ||
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On December 12 2013 03:17 purpletrator wrote: No rayn, I do not think Vayne is scummy for puffing his chest. Do you actually even think about why people say things they do? You don't really seem to be doing that much. That makes you suspicious aswell. | ||
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On December 12 2013 03:12 purpletrator wrote: he's actually getting lynched right now and its a really bad lynch. Why exactly is Slam a bad lynch? | ||
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On December 12 2013 03:33 purpletrator wrote: He is almost the same as an RNG lynch. He's so polarizing of a player that there is no analysis to be done on his wagon or the discussions surrounding him. It is a bad lynch. You get no information and statistically a mislynch. So what.. You just consider him as town? | ||
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On December 12 2013 03:40 VayneAuthority wrote: it's not because spag is scum, it's because rayn is scum. lynch him after I'm proven town. Dude i am not scum. You know i like to vote and pressure people with voting. You just left the statement unanswered and claimed you will not post any more rayn and kush iare scum ggnore. What does that accomplish? I don't care about Slam. He'll get vigged unless the vigi is retarded. I would like you to explain the statement because i really do not understand why you did say what you did. Also could you tell who is mafia? | ||
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On December 12 2013 03:46 VayneAuthority wrote: you either lied about learning anything from bttb and time to die or are scum, as far as im concerned. You are making cases on the same stupid shit that is completely meaningless. reminds me of your lonemeow case. Do not start this because that's exactly what you do as mafia. ##unvote ##Vote: Spaghetticus | ||
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On December 12 2013 03:48 JarJarDrinks wrote: I think it shows that he doesn't actually believe what he's saying about policy lynching Slam. He's using it as way to not participate or give reads so as to not have any accountability. Unfortunately that's exactly what he does as town. He can get vigged too if you ask me. | ||
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On December 12 2013 03:51 Grackaroni wrote: it is a contradiction if you say you are town for getting rid of the 4th mafia and that you would leave him in as scum. Then you admit that you would get rid of him because you like a real game. Night killing him for the hell of it is no different than lynching him for the hell of it when you could get a better lynch from 'dumping your vote on spaghetti" The fact that Vayne does not see that it's a contradiction makes me believe he does not even realize it's a contradiction which in fact shows a town mindset rather than scum.. | ||
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That's what he always does when he's scum. ##Unvote ##Vote: VayneAuthority | ||
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On December 11 2013 13:03 VayneAuthority wrote: I hope he flips town so I am actually justified in saying that he is hindering the game. If he's scum he can do whatever the fuck he wants. Read that portal game by greymist if you want to see how hard it is to lynch this guy as scum. His entire team bussed him and he still barely got lynched. nuff said. On December 11 2013 13:10 VayneAuthority wrote: Considering the decent resistance in this game at the day 1 stage I would say there is actually a decent chance for him to flip scum combined with the points I have already made. There is quite a group of people that have pretty much ignored him altogether, which is what I usually do. I would like a better reason on why we shouldn't lynch him besides "lol vigi" because we all know nobody uses their vig shots like that; they always end up being hero vig shots. ... i really don't get it.. i really don't... | ||
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On December 12 2013 05:11 purpletrator wrote: before slam gets too far, active lurkers (theres gotta be like 10 of us), who is scummier, cora or spag? Spag, definitely. Can we get a votecount please? | ||
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##Vote Spaghetticus Vayne can be useless as town. It's even more likely than that he is productive. Goddamn. I refuse to believe Spaghetticus is town. There is just no way. | ||
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On December 12 2013 05:30 JarJarDrinks wrote: I haven't thought cora was scummy all game. But I have to admit, something feels off about this whole notes thing. He asks "Do you want to see them?" and then he's all: Uh I don't have em w/ me. I'll be very curious to see them as well. I really don't like all this movement to Spag as soon as Vayne has the vote lead. Pretty sure scum is trying to keep vayne alive. Which would make spag town. So who do you suggest is scum then if that's the case? | ||
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On December 12 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote: I really don't like the Spag wagon. It has both Artanis and purple... And neither of them provided any reasoning for voting him. The problem is not the voters. I have the same problem (well not really with purple, as he basically chose between spag/vayne)... It's that Spag is so fucking scummy and the evidence is far better than on vayne. | ||
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Spag didn't get that far with ~100 posts. | ||
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On December 12 2013 05:48 JarJarDrinks wrote: Yeah, after Vayne was close to getting lynched, he dedided to start playing the game. Even though he told us he wasn't gonna do anything else besides try to get slam lynched. Actually he didn't really start playing rofl. He threw a personal attack on me and idk what to kush. | ||
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On December 12 2013 05:49 Xatalos wrote: I'm not still sure why VA is #2 in votes. Apparently he contradicted himself, but why is he scum just for that? It's not like he needed to talk about how he'd love to NK / lynch Alakaslam. Yes he needed, did you read? I confronted him about his thoughts on lynching Slam. | ||
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On December 12 2013 05:51 JarJarDrinks wrote: Yeah, no clue why he chose you and kush and not me when all 3 of us pointed out his contradiction. Kush hadn't even voted for him yet. I am pretty sure why he chose me, as either alignment. Because he is either frustrated with me or if he's scum he has to. kush probably because usually Vayne goes with "the first guy who accuses me with nonsense is scum" as town. So again, either town or mimicing his town play. Nothing alignment indicative. I usually leave Vayne be for D1 as it's a crapshoot because you can't really tell his alignment on D1.. | ||
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On December 12 2013 05:57 purpletrator wrote: yes/no question. Do you think you can confidently read VA before deadline D2? yes | ||
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On December 12 2013 05:57 VayneAuthority wrote: no, it is because rayn and kush claim to be able to read me. I welcome being lynched just so that they know they can't I have never claimed to be able to read you on D1, and i am not doing it now either. | ||
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On December 12 2013 05:59 VayneAuthority wrote: and i can easily explain what you just quoted, another stupid non-contradiction. Nobody in their right mind is gonna bus day 1 unless you are grack/mocsta and legit hate playing with eachother. He was bussed in portal on like what? day 4/5? right.. i figured ^^ | ||
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On December 12 2013 06:04 Xatalos wrote: Hmmm. That was a mess of a deadline. I'm sure the vote swings tell something though (unlike with a Alakaslam lynch). So do you or do you not think vayne is mafia? Or wtf is this about? | ||
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On December 12 2013 06:07 Xatalos wrote: I hope you agree that this lynch was far more informative than policy lynching Alakaslam. He can be policy Vigi'd equally well. I mean this post. What are you expecting Vayne to answer? "Yeah this this and this guy are scummy for defending scum"? He was the fucking counterwagon, regardless of his alignment he didn't learn or "didn't learn" anything. | ||
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Artanis on the other hand... The first notion of Spag in his filter is the second last post of his before the vote.. This: On December 11 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote: While I like who you voted, I would like to hear the reasons why you voted for him. Not to be a buzzkill, but preferably in a serious manner. I am pretty sure Artanis is scum. He's far better than this as town. | ||
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That was definitely the scummiest vote on D1 of all of them. | ||
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That's what i am saying. | ||
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You are right. You also had at least one post earlier where you state you find Spag's posting townie. You never try to do anything with that suspicion, and you definitely did not care about the lynch on D1. | ||
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On December 12 2013 21:08 Holyflare wrote: rayn, out of the people that I mentioned (ignoring artanis) who do you think is the scummiest person on my list? I don't know what's your list. | ||
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On December 12 2013 21:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Wasn't your list incomplete? You said so yourself that you hadn't checked it yet for some. When so many people voted for Spaghetti despite only one person voting for him early on and that being Alakaslam, you can be pretty sure about it. Wow, this is so scummy. Can anyone else see why? | ||
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On December 12 2013 21:09 Holyflare wrote: well the people that I mentioned in my analysis post (not really a list i guess) I don't think anyone's vote is scummy besides Artanis & Xatalos and both of them are definitely not scum. | ||
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On December 12 2013 21:12 Holyflare wrote: So you don't think cora's was scummy? Spag wasn't even on his scum list names. He voted him to get him to stop attacking him lol.. LSB didn't even want a spag lynch pretty much but didn't really influence town in another direction either. Other people had either reasons or clearly consolidated. | ||
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On December 12 2013 21:15 Xatalos wrote: How is my vote scummy? We discussed earlier that Spag would be a decent lynch. Unfortunately I came back close to the deadline and Spag seemed like the reasonable option. Your scumreads were voting for Spag, you even mentioned it and ended up voting for him. I don't think you never said why you think Vayne is town too, while you mention the possibility of Spag being town. | ||
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It makes no sense to me. | ||
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- Corazon clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - purple clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - LSB too I don't see nothing scummy in those three. - Xatalos consolidated on a target that all his scumreads voted for while defending him over the other target - Artanis threw a lazy ass vote and his reasoning he is giving now doesn't look like it's lining up with his actions (he is saying he had reasons to believe Spag was scum while he had clearly not read the thread (or is lying now) - had he said "i consolidated" it would have been okay, but he is trying to explain his actions to look like something they clearly were not) - Okay i agree, kush's vote is fucking fishy, that i missed. Clear enough HF? | ||
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On December 12 2013 21:35 Xatalos wrote: Not really. I did mention that I disliked some of the wagon on Spag and that Spag wasn't my preferred lynch, but he also had an above average chance of flipping scum. While VA was pretty null all around. What. In case i have not misunderstood anything your other scumreads at least at that time were Corazon, Artanis and purple. All of them were voting for Spag, a guy you were not sure is scum. If that's not scummy to vote someone in that situation idk what is. | ||
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On December 12 2013 21:35 Holyflare wrote: consolidation can be scummy, especially when they have actual scum reads! LSB was on sprang for a long time but never really pushed for his lynch but I can see this being an actual consolidation, purple's votes don't add up because he voted cora for not posting notes but didn't mention anything to do with cora after the notes (the notes are shit). Cora..... consolidation isn't the only reason he's scummy >_> Yes i know consolidation does not make them townie. It also does not make them more scummy. That's basically my point. When we are talking about voting analysis, i thought you were trying to show why those people's voting for Spag was scummy. I disagree with that. I am not talking about their other actions in this game. | ||
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On December 12 2013 21:43 Xatalos wrote: Bussing is always possible, since Spag was gathering votes fast. And I'd rather not lynch someone who I don't find scummy and whose situation I hadn't had the time to fully comprehend (VA). Well why did you not try to get one of your scumreads lynched instead? Like Cora, who was voted by other people aswell. I told you to look elsewhere than Artanis for a moment and you agreed. You did nothing after that. | ||
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On December 12 2013 21:50 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately I had an exam after that Artanis debacle and the battery of my phone ran out. So I came home and it was basically Spag vs VA (like 30min to deadline). It would have been unrealistic to bring someone else to the competition (especially since all my townreads were already wanting to Spag). And probably harmful as well (distracting the discussion about Spag/VA). So I went for Spag despite not liking the wagon too much. Really? Because after this post: + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2013 00:02 Xatalos wrote: Unfortunately they're all AFK / lurking. I'll need to look through their filters when I get back home though. How would you analyze their play so far? (besides the obvious lackluster LSB-vote with purple) ... i thought you would either: 1) Find a different approach into telling why you think Artanis is scum as noone bought your case 2) try to find a different lynch target Instead of doing so you sheeped my case on purple and did not try to do (1) or (2). I highly doubt that's a time issue as you have ~50 posts between that post and the lynch. | ||
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Why would someone lie about being a mason in a game where there are no masons? | ||
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That being said i am really confused about this game because i can't say anyone looks town besides Plutarch and Holyflare. Maybe xigxag but he hasn't been here for like forever so ugh.. This game is shit atm.. | ||
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On December 13 2013 02:15 LSB wrote: I don't get how this bait and switch thing turned into us trying to lynch the bait and ignoring the switch Could you answer my post where i talk about your bait and switch strategy? | ||
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I called LSB out for his voting behavior on D!, especially asked you about it. NOW it's relevant. You are scum. | ||
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##Vote: Plutarch | ||
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Both are bad. | ||
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On December 11 2013 21:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: LSB what are you doing? You don't seem to give a shit about who's lynched. You're flip-flopping around purple/sidesprang and to me it looks like you are just trying to find something that sticks. Explain this wishy-washyness: + Show Spoiler + On December 10 2013 13:35 LSB wrote: General comments: purpletrator is being incredibly defensive and showing off as paranoid to me xatalos has been powerplaying quite hard day 1, and typically lynches of major town voices go badly day 1. Push Post Personally I think the most important post so far is this I've already mentioned how I felt the initial read of Cora was incredibly forced. This can easily attributed to Holyflare's overeagerness. What is important to keep an eye out are the bandwagoners. Or the "bait and switch" approach. Make a flimsy case, wait for someone to quickly jump on your plan, and finger the bandwagoner as mafia. The logic behind this is that very few townies would be willing to push a bad lynch, but a mafia would be willing to push many lynches on greenies regarless of the contents of the lynches. Indeed he continues his bandwagony attitude. Although there have only been two posts from him, bait and switch has a 100% success rate (n = 1), and I might as well go with it. I am seriously concerned about his willingness to support lynches without contributing much personal insights. ##unvote ##Vote; sidesprang On December 11 2013 00:32 LSB wrote: Out of all the games I've played why are we talking about the one I am currently in. PM the host for obs if you really want to know my alignment in PYP that bad. I've already stated how I think the Corazon lynch is just a huge bandwagon, so I won't vote for him. I'm glad to see someone feels that Purpletrator is being overly defensive Rather than being nonsensical I saw it as being paranoid and believing there was a serious case on him and a need to defend himself. He handled that far too poorly, I chalked it up as bad play at the time, but this paranoia does bother me. ##unvote ##Vote Purpletrator On December 11 2013 11:33 LSB wrote: I thought it was fine, come lynch sidesprang http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436388¤tpage=20#389 On December 11 2013 11:34 LSB wrote: Dunno, no one was talking about it so I decided to pressure slam. I'd rather lynch sidesprang if we get the traction On December 11 2013 12:04 LSB wrote: LETS GET THIS WAGON GOING GAIS ##unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang You make a case on sidesprang. You don't try to convince anyone to lynch him and switch your vote based on my case. After this you seem to be wanting to push sidesprang lynch instead. But in the next post not really.. Your vote is not even on him. Then you put your vote back on him. I assume it's because the "bait and switch" strategy? Meaning "mafia did not hop on "easy" lynch therefore sidesprang is mafia" correct? I don't find this reason acceptable to lynch someone, especially as you have explained the "strategy" in your original post where you vote for sidesprang.. So, srsly, wtf? Explain your behavior. On December 11 2013 22:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah me too. What do you make of LSB's logic behind his votes? The post i made about his voting behavior. Do you think it makes sense because to me it really does not. On December 11 2013 22:30 Plutarch wrote: He moved his vote around a bit which I like. He doesn't make sense at all which I don't. Is that scummy though? I'm not so sure. So yeah. you gotta be scum. | ||
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The post i am talking about proves it. | ||
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All you manage to do is pick up something that you can insult people for. That's not playing mafia. From this moment on i will never join a game where you play and i pretend you are not in this game. Unfortunately lynching you goes against my win condition so i won't do it as you are probably the only person in this game who is stupid enough to shoot the towniest guy in the game on N1 and unfortunately that makes you town. Don't bother asking me anything because i am not reading your posts. | ||
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On December 14 2013 03:18 Xatalos wrote: You don't think town can make different reads from the same (or actually slightly different) materials at different points in time? There's new indirect information, the level of analysis can be different etc. Something like that doesn't override that Plutarch has been scumhunting whenever he's been posting. I asked Plutarch about those exact posts and he said it was not a big deal. But when LSB consolidates on one of the two top targets it suddenly somehow becomes suspicious? LSB makes 4 "bandwagony" votes, not suspicious -> LSB consolidates on current lynch targets suddenly all of his votes become suspicious. That's really bad. If LSB had not consolidated he would have been called out for not caring about the lynch. | ||
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Why is everyone just saying "lol Plutarch is town" and not looking a t the case? | ||
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On December 14 2013 03:28 Xatalos wrote: One misstep in a player's logical thought process doesn't yet make scum. Maybe I could understand putting him at null, but #1 scumread? That's way too much for one detail in his large filter. If it was Oats or kushmasta then you are right. However it's not, there is a difference. | ||
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On December 14 2013 03:38 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, that has to be it. I can't comprehend LSB playing like this as town. LSB just played a PYP game where he had literally no reads and all he talked about was mass claim until he got lynched. He was town, so what he has done in this game is 100x more than his 10 page filter in PYP. | ||
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On December 14 2013 03:41 Xatalos wrote: ...... Why does he even bother playing if he doesn't care at all? I mean, he had reads, but he never explained any of them. He was even right on some flipped scummers but he never really explained anything he did. | ||
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On December 14 2013 03:49 LSB wrote: If JB flips scum I want you to post "LSB just played a PYP game where he literally fingered da mafia and until he got lynched by da mafia" I'm sorry i misrepresented your play. That was not intentional. I didn't mean to say you were wrong, i meant to say you didn't really explain your reads at all and in my opinion your play in this game has been definitely more pro-town than it was in PYP game. Being right =/= good play if noone listens to you. I agree your vote is in a good place. Plutarch situation will most likely resolve itself, as everyone besides me seem to think he is town. Artanis' & purple's reaction to my case however are really fishy. They do not look at the case at all, just call me bad for it and not even telling why the case is bad. I may be wrong on Plutarch but those people come out scummy for it. ##Unvote: ##Vote: Artanis | ||
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On December 14 2013 04:12 purpletrator wrote: Gee, I wonder who Holyflare (Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!) decided to protect. Hmmmmmmmm lets all think really really hard about this now guys. I wonder. Who could it be? And this makes Plutarch town how? You draw an assumption that mafia did shoot Plutarch? Why do you assume so? | ||
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On December 14 2013 04:16 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, it could have been a double-stack on HF as well. Unless you're scum and know you shot HF. | ||
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On December 14 2013 04:21 LSB wrote: Gauis, I know you love information lynches. Think, if we shoot purple and he flips red, we know that Plutarch is town due to ez scumslip. Probably yes. Also Artanis falls into red category based purely on his reaction to my vote on Plutarch. | ||
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On December 14 2013 04:24 Xatalos wrote: Hahah. That's a nice thought. Although if scum NK'd Plutarch last time, they're probably doing it again now that the Medic is dead. Not necessarily, he could be SK. | ||
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On December 13 2013 06:14 JarJarDrinks wrote: Well my first thought was that the mafia kill got healed. But I guess you'd know who mafia shot @. ##vote VayneAuthority Hmm that's actually interesting point. Vayne how did you reach to this conclusion? | ||
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On December 14 2013 04:58 Grackaroni wrote: they really aren't. Why would the host choose to only reveal that the vig shot HF if they could reveal that it was both the vig and mafia shots when they are specifically telling us what role shot who. Because the host has clarified that's not true. And you saying if there is an SK shot next night Plutarch is town is just.. ugh.. i don't even know how you can possibly think that's true. | ||
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On December 14 2013 05:01 Grackaroni wrote: This is what he is saying: hosts tells us vig shot HF from the kill flavor hosts tells us SK shot bum from the kill flavor. Why wouldn't the hosts tell us who mafia shot? (I think they would.) Well if you believe this you should be lynching JJD because he is lying then. | ||
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On December 14 2013 05:07 VayneAuthority wrote: same heuristic I used to determine HF was town. grack is a similar scum player, very worried in the scum qt. I think he is lurking too much and just posting random shit too much to be scum this game. Grack posted entirely random shit the whole D1 in LXIII. I usually listen to him when he is town because he is good, it worries me that he has about 1 post i think is good in this game. | ||
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On December 14 2013 05:15 Grackaroni wrote: I keep getting the too bad to be scum reads. I just haven't gotten a chance to thoroughly analyze the thread yet Please do that asap and let us know what you think.. | ||
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I think you should claim! | ||
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On December 14 2013 06:27 Blazinghand wrote: I'm a vigi with no more bullets. not sure who I shot; was not told. am catching up. You shot the town medic who was like the towniest dude in the game. | ||
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Don't think of Artanis at all, do you or do you not want to lynch LSB? You said you thought he was a good lynch but in the same post you say you agree with his reads, so you don't want to lynch him. Which is it? | ||
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##Vote: Xatalos | ||
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On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm pretty sure on my Cora town read. He seems far too frustrated to feign as scum and is trying to come up with contributions. Not really interested in VA either. I hadn't read up on Vayne yet, but reading JJD's case on him I'd be happy to see him hang. not going to repeat the points, JJD mentioned them well. Artanis could you explain this, this is all from the same post of yours. | ||
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On December 14 2013 20:43 Xatalos wrote: Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance. If you don't understand this then i don't know what to tell you. You call out Artanis for having a wishy-washy read on LSB. Then you yourself have at least an equally wishy-washy read on LSB. So by your definition you are calling Artanis scum for something you right after do yourself. How does that make sense to you? If you are town how can Artanis' actions be scummy if you yourself do same things as town? | ||
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On December 14 2013 21:44 Xatalos wrote: If you read the situation more carefully, you would understand that Artanis's read was making me more suspicious of LSB and not the other way around. And why do you base your read on LSB on what Artanis says? | ||
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On December 14 2013 22:01 Xatalos wrote: What I mean is.... That's what I'd expect him to say about his scummate. "I don't want to lynch him now, but I'm not sure about him." Gives him the room to bus, but also to back off is necessary. Isn't this exactly what you said about LSB? | ||
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And why are you reasoning your vote on Vayne based purely on what it will tell us if he flips mafia? You are working backwards because you are supposed to find mafia and then tell what it means when they flip, right now you are doint the opposite. | ||
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On December 14 2013 22:39 Xatalos wrote: I think I already explained this earlier. Yes you did, to some extent. Doesn't change the fact what he did is scummy and btw we havn't lynched single mafia in this game so noone can say someone is townie bacause of their reads. Nobody else didn't even look at what i said, just called me out for it, and i kinda wanna lynch all of those people for it. "Yo this dude is so townie, therefore what you said can't be true". The worst reasoning ever to dismisss someone's case. | ||
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I need to think about this. I don't think LSB is a good lynch either. I don't think you are right kush in saying he played a lot better in PYP because even if you were right you can't know that because noone in this game has flipped scum. On top of that LSB's reads have been far more clear than they were in PYP so i don't know where you are getting your info. | ||
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On December 14 2013 23:42 kushm4sta wrote: @rayn you are thinking about endgame lsb when he stopped caring. Early game he was really smart and good. Early game he did nothing but told people to massclaim. I don't know where you get that "good".. | ||
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I don't think either of LSB / Vayne is scum. Plutarch issue will solve itself later on in the game. JJD and Grack look town to me aswell. So does kush and Slam. Xatalos is a questionmark to me. Other people are some lurkers that could go either way, but i don't think sidesprang is a good lynch as he is at least trying to play the game. Won't even talk about BH because town. | ||
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That's exactly what he is doing in this game, and it's not what he does as mafia. As mafia he cares about his team winning and pushes scum agenda and that's definitely not what he is doing here. | ||
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I'm soon fully back so i will make up my decision. | ||
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FUCK THIS! Lynch Artanis. He is scum. 1) His reasoning on Xatalos being scum is still the same that on D1. Nothing has changed, he hasn't taken a different approach on getting him lynched while it's clear the D1 won't work (as Xatalos was not lynched on D1). He is not really trying to lynch Xatalos. 2) He calls multiple people scummy or bad and discredits them. Read the last couple of pages in his filter. Me, kush, Grack, Vayne (+ he has the contradicting read on him in the same post). Also his read on Cora changes weirdly in the middle of N1. He has no intention to figure out any of those people's alignment, he just calls them scummy or bad and does not even explain the reasoning behind it. Just look at his filter, people have "extra info" or "are working under scum mindset" but never he explains why. 3) He calls nearly all the Spaghetticus votes bad, but then he hadn't even read how the votes went down and why as he couldn't explain which votes in particularly were bad. Then he just paints them as bad and doesn't look more into them but magically Xatalos' voting behavior ends up in his case. There is no reason Xatalos' vote should have been any more scummy than other "bad votes". He is not trying to find scum and just calling people scummy or bad left and right and not explaining why. Definitely mafia. I don't like lynching vayne, i am pretty sure he is town. LSB is a bad lynch too i think, he's playing better than he did in PYP at least post-qualitywise. He is explaining his reads and while the methods are a bit... interesting, i don't think there is anything scummy in it. Artanis is the best lynch today. ##Vote: Artanis | ||
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On December 15 2013 03:47 JarJarDrinks wrote: @rayne - U think Vayne is town. U think I'm town. I make a huge case against Vayne which has some real good points. Where are all the scum sheep votes? No scum wants to bandwagon such a thought out case from a townie? There's just too much resistance for vayne to be town. Or Maybe you think scum already has a person voting vayne? You can't tell me that you believe town is making a case against town and 2 townies are the only people on the wagon. Someone is scum in that group. Not necessarily as i think LSB is town aswell. And i do not know about sidesprang and xigxag. Althoguh the latter looks worse to me. | ||
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On December 15 2013 03:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You didn't think Mocsta was mafia for his strange suspicion on Spaghetticus either in LXIII. I think my case illustrates why Xatalos is mafia without the fluff. Yes i did not think Mocsta was mafia until he went on and shot StorrZerg. I told him his case was not good but i could have seen town!Mocsta do that case. Maybe i am just shitty in reading him. Can you do/answer the following: 1) Give me the reasoning why Xatalos is mafia. I promise you i will be reading his filter and tell you what i think. 2) Do you think you can get Xatalos lynched today? If not, could you give at least 2 people who you think are mafia, with reasoning, not only saying they "work under mafia mindset" or "are bad or scum". Like actually explain why something means something to you. If you are town it's really hard to tell atm because that's honestly what you are doing in your reads on about ~half of the people in this game. | ||
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On December 15 2013 03:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Sure. Can you answer me why you were unwilling to talk to me earlier because you considered me scum when that read hasn't changed, yet are willing to do so now? I think it was yesterday? I made quite a faceplant when i was walking home on Thursday. I look like a fucking mosnter and didn't feel quite well yesterday.. | ||
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On December 15 2013 04:18 Grackaroni wrote: I think I'd be happy lynching either one really. If one flips town its ok. I guarantee one of them will be scum. No, i want to lynch the scum one of them because they are both really valuable as town. Not doing 1-1's here. | ||
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On December 15 2013 04:23 Blazinghand wrote: if xigxag lives we have a strong chance of losing no matter his alignment. you don't have town read on him lynch I actually could get behind this. I gotta read Artanis' case and Xatalos first. Could you do that too, read Artanis & Xatalos? Or if you have done so could you tell your opinion. | ||
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-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. Is till think this can be interpreted as forcing discussion aswell. Is there anything particular that makes you think mafia would stick their neck out like that so early in the game for no reason? Xatalos was the main person to start discussion. -First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread. I actually agree on this one. Xatalos does not really have anything on you besides OMGUS. -Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone. Yeah this was weird, i think i commented on it on D1 or N1. -Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti. I don't think this is as scummy as it looks like, unless Vayne is mafia, which i do not believe. However i think this point does not make Xatalos scum. -Makes a post with a big push on me, then goes on with the order of the day. Doesn't force anyone to pay attention to the case he made. He brings it up sometimes but in a very casual way and doesn't force people to look at it when it's ignored. -Wishy-Washy thing on me made absolutely no sense when he had a wishy-washy stance on me himself. I'm the scapegoat for his plans. He doesn't actually wants to lynch me because he knows I'll flip green, so he finds any reason he can to try and paint me red. The worse the reason, the better as it won't actually convince anyone. Yeah D2 is a clusterfuck from him, but then again i don't think anyone else has done much either. Basically nearly all the people fall into same category on D2, including you. Ugh, Artanis how would you feel about xigxag lynch? | ||
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##Vote: xigxag | ||
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On December 15 2013 04:40 Grackaroni wrote: lol BH I don't see why you feel XX is so useless. There are people doing less. Yeah but those people look town.. | ||
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I really really did not like how he did instantly shit on me for calling Plutarch out and not giving any reasons why. If he thought he was confirmed town because of the flavor and HF's last post why not just straight out say so. Why only later on? | ||
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Because yamato is capable of making good posts as scum on D1. Not many people can see him as scum on D1. Since then he's fallen off the earth and made a case on LSB (which i think he is contradicting himself in). | ||
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On December 15 2013 04:52 Grackaroni wrote: nah Marv sits back more. He would never start off a game with such a dumb accusation. Well he was talkking about Catch 22 in detail so it can't really be any other dude than marv/yamato/Hapa and i don't think it's marv/Hapa. | ||
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What are your thoughts on purpletrator? Would you get behind that lynch? I really don't like lynching Vayne/LSB. | ||
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##Unvote: ##Vote: purpletrator | ||
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Let's kill purple so i can be "first case on scum" in 6/6 last games i've played. | ||
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Why not? | ||
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On December 15 2013 05:10 Alakaslam wrote: Haha Rayne please remind me how u aren't OMGUSing, no offense I swear I am not OMGUSing... Do you think "you are bad and you should feel bad, also you are scum" would somehow make me scum? | ||
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On December 15 2013 05:14 VayneAuthority wrote: voting for purple at this point would just be committing suicide rayn, you would have to get more votes to even consder it. No one answered my question tho on why LSB support is dwindling when all he did was come back and vote me. ...??? I don't think LSB is scum. What do you think will happen on D3 if we lynch LSB and he flips town? | ||
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On December 15 2013 05:21 VayneAuthority wrote: then i'll be wrong? but what you are asking me to do right now is essentially kill myself which doesn't help town at all. I was just curious why you think him coming back and voting me makes him town. It does not make him town. It does not make him scum either. Look at what you are doing atm, the same thing, voting for him and not considering other options because it might kill you. I don't like the fact everyone here right now thinks purple is scummy but noone wants to vote for him. We have like ~8 ppl here ugh.. This lynch does not look good imo. :/ | ||
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On December 15 2013 05:27 Alakaslam wrote: Oh I know. I'm not sayin he is right. Just saying, remind me what your actual motives are, especially now that I'm not seeing it I want to know... My case on D1. Then he's done nothing but shitflinging on D2. | ||
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On December 15 2013 05:30 Plutarch wrote: OK im back. Rayn why is your vote parked uselessly on purple? Because everyone online right now thinks he is scum, i think he is scum and i am trying to get people vote for him. wtf is wrong with you? | ||
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Could you please vote for him? If there are not enough people we can always switch to someone else. | ||
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On December 15 2013 05:43 VayneAuthority wrote: probably gonna get lynched, so yea please kill LSB, artanis, and maybe even JJD when I flip town since his tunnel is playing to his scum meta. 4th scum is probably some random llurker so don't really care You will not get lynched. I'll make sure of it. Now vote for purple, if the vote is not enough we switch to LSB. but purple is scum. | ||
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I am telling you he's scum. Plz if you are town vote for him. We can make it happen. | ||
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On December 15 2013 06:10 Plutarch wrote: I think grack looks bad because of this also. And Rayn, Blazinghand and I are obv town now. That is an OP lineup. I agree, you would not have helped me lynching purple if you were scum. | ||
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On December 15 2013 06:32 JarJarDrinks wrote: Also I guess we know that Plu was in fact targetted and healed last night. Well if you "know" that then you also would "know" Artanis is scum because he did the same thing. | ||
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gn cya tomorrow. | ||
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If he's mafia SK "knows" what to do. If he's SK mafia "knows" what to do. If he is town mafia/SK might clash, but if they don't, what was the point? | ||
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Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is. The underlined parts, which i talked about in my case too. He never explains why, just puts some general scum traits there and says i am working under them. What? | ||
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On December 15 2013 19:47 kushm4sta wrote: the reason to do that as town is to troll. i am very familiar with this reason and it's highly possible. Hey who do you think could be mafia atm? I like your new style of giving out reads much more than compared to your play before, but i would also like if you had some scumreads at some point. | ||
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On December 15 2013 20:22 Xatalos wrote: Btw rayn, how would you say Artanis affected the purple lynch? I'm rereading through the events and I don't really see as big of an impact from him as I thought. Basically it seems to be mostly your own doing. Artanis did cause you to switch from XigXag to purple, but that's about it for his contribution to the lynch (besides his vote). Obviously without Artanis's vote VA would have been lynched instead of purple, since it was only a matter of one vote in the end... Still, I'd say that A) if VA is scum, Artanis has a very good chance of flipping scum B) if VA is town/SK, Artanis has about an average chance of flipping scum (much less than if VA is scum, but it could still be a clever play by him) As i said i think when i was able to convince Plutarch to join the purpletrator lynch i think it's reasonably to assume other people will join asewll so i don't really think the votes after that matter too much alignmentwise. Unless Vayne is town and the wagon is scumfree - which (both of them being true) i can't possibly believe. | ||
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On December 15 2013 05:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is everyone thinking purple is scummy but noone wants to lynch him? On December 15 2013 05:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: My case on D1. Then he's done nothing but shitflinging on D2. This is why i did vote for purple. And the fact that i did not think either of Vayne / LSB would flip mafia. Artanis was not happening. | ||
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On December 15 2013 21:35 Plutarch wrote: Can you agree Rayn that the Slam vote on XigXag could have come from a confused and panicked scum whose buddies got wagoned at the last second? Yes i can. I just do not know if it really di. I am not sure tbh, but i agree that's a possibility and not even asmall one, especially considering his behavior after the lynch. | ||
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On December 15 2013 08:04 sidesprang wrote: Only conclusion atm that i feel good about is that IF vayne = town -> artanis = town. Alakaslam deffo seem a bit wierd with how much he changed his vote and that late vote off from purp, but you can also see at one point he gave purple the lead. So it's a bit confusing why he would do that as scum. Oh and BTW, Please feel free to double check it. Tho the count I have in the sheet do seem to make up to the same as the mods counted. Btw this is pretty weak considering he put a shitton amount of work in making the vote-switch-tally. Like he does all the work and then says "if vayne is town artanis is most likely too and idk about alakaslam".. | ||
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On December 15 2013 21:55 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, that's a pretty weak result from the "big vote analysis".... But what do you think of that result? I think it's pretty correct. If VA is scum, then Artanis is pretty likely as well. But it seems significantly less likely if VA is town. I also asked you a question about Artanis's behaviour earlier. I think i answered it. Artanis did not affect me in voting for purple. In fact after i did vote for purple Artanis didn't seem like he wanted to lynch purple at all lol. | ||
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I don't have much time now, i'll look at everything talked about before the deadline though and give my opinions. | ||
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On December 15 2013 23:18 Xatalos wrote: Because he was very eager to jump on the VA bandwagon at the end of D1. Well, they *can*, but it's not very likely that they are IMO. I suggest you look at LXIII and what Grackaroni did as mafia. He basically bussed his whole team and vice versa. | ||
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That's kind of an interesting scenario Plutarch is proposing, from all the view points. First of all i think that's apossibility that he is right, second i dunno why would he propose that now, during the night, and not at the last moment? I really do not know how SK should be playing at least considering their shots are obvious like other kills too. I havn't really thought about it at all. Plutarch why did you think it's a good time to analyze who is SK now? | ||
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On December 16 2013 01:00 kushm4sta wrote: this sk hunt is really dumb Basically this is what i think, at least if you are town. | ||
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Grack, Vayne, Slam, Xatalos. | ||
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Vayne - read Plu & BH, that's enough. No townie would do that. Slam - I am not worried about his vote, but more so his actions after the deadline, overly defensive. Xatalos - Tried to paint Artanis as someone bad, i did not like that at all. Especially after D2 votes. BH & Plu, who's alive, look at his posts on N2. And where the fuck is all the other people?!?!? | ||
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##Vote: VayneAuthority | ||
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You did the vote stuff on N1 start and gave some weak ass analysis and dropped off the earth for the rest of the phase just to appear on D3 start. Do you have anything constructive to say? | ||
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##Unvote: ##Vote: Xatalos | ||
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On December 17 2013 21:41 Plutarch wrote: Where the fuck have you been? If rayn doesn't die he is the serial killer. I couldn't get online for the last day. Wtf is this bullshit? What are you doing? | ||
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On December 17 2013 21:59 Plutarch wrote: He was scum though. So close enough :D seriously just forget about it so we can be productive for a while. No, why do you even bring that up? So you can make a case noone can answer / argue with you about before you die if you are town and then scum/SK have a mislynch lined up as me being SK "because confirmed townie" said so. Seriously, wtf? Why would you do that as town? I don't think the quote says anything about Alakaslam's alignment. | ||
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On December 17 2013 22:01 Plutarch wrote: If you were SK you would choose 1 shot bulletproof over investigation immune almost certainly. That is why I want the cop to check you. Yeah i would, so would you. So give me one good reason why a cop should check me instead of you? | ||
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On December 17 2013 22:05 Plutarch wrote: are you for real? I am dead tonight. Is that a good enough reason? If you are not the SK guess what. I am dead too for fucks sake. | ||
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Artanis what do you think this tells about xigxag's alignment? | ||
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Xatalos (5): Artanis[Xp], Plutarch, LSB, JarJarDrinks, sidesprang xigxag (3): Alakaslam, Blazinghand, Xatalos NOT VOTING: Grackaroni, xigxag, raynpelikoneet, | ||
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That's my one last question about this; Look above. | ||
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On December 17 2013 22:34 Plutarch wrote: I think Grack is almost certainly scum. Correct. | ||
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On December 17 2013 23:06 JarJarDrinks wrote: Like I said, I'm not so sure about Slam anymore. The vote switch was a dumb risk for him to take. Like he coordinated w/ his scumbuddy to vote snipe which not only would look incredibly suspicious, but after rechecking, it didn't actually help save purple @ the time. @ no point after purple took the lead was vayne is danger of being lynched. Purple was up in votes 6 to 4. After Slam and Purple switched, it became 5 to 5 w/ purple still set to be lynched. Since Slam was making such a risky scum play, why wouldn't he have switched to vayne to actually try and save purple? Because ifwe lynched town!Vayne scum would have effectively outed Slam in addition to purple. | ||
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Is the Serial Killer's bulletproof one shot or permanent? It doesn't say either way clearly in OP. | ||
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On December 15 2013 06:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: K, guess I was wrong about vayne. No way that was a 2 scum race. Slam looks pretty terrible after trying to vote snipe. I think Grack looks pretty bad too wasting his vote when he was clearly here. Rayn and Plu obv town. Post all Ur reads tonight since one of u is prob gonna die. Why does he assume one of us is going to die on N2, the medic was dead and there was no reason to assume 2 medics. | ||
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If JJD was scum it would be trrible scum miscoordination because JJD basically has to at least on some level accuse purple after that. | ||
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On December 18 2013 00:15 Plutarch wrote: It was only mentioned after purple was lynched so it was meaningless. No man, it wasn't. It was mentioned way before noone was even voted for purple. JJD had posted that in thread before i accused you and purple & Artanis went crazy on me. | ||
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On December 18 2013 00:15 Plutarch wrote: I would happily lynch JJD over xatalos today. And why would you do that? | ||
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On December 16 2013 13:15 JarJarDrinks wrote: Going to bed. Will check out Xat tomorrow. I've had him as scummy most of this game but never really near the top of my reads. So that might actually make sense for a SK. Other people I think we should consider lynching: sidesprig, Grack, Slam. On December 17 2013 05:19 JarJarDrinks wrote: This is exactly what I have too. Where did Grack go`? | ||
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On December 16 2013 12:37 JarJarDrinks wrote: Anyway. Can't get anymore scummy than the fake cop claim. I think he's way more likely to flip SK though ##vote Vayne Totally town. | ||
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Seems pretty easy. | ||
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On December 18 2013 01:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Bad argument since Xatalos did the same with me. There's plenty of reasons to stop tunneling as scum. Your posts stop getting read and you lose thread influence, especially once your scumread flips green. When you tunnel someone as scum you don't actually want them to flip. Vayne was at grave risk of flipping which would make you look bad so you backpedaled. I like the case Plutarch. Don't forget JJD had a "townread" on Vayne after purple flipped. Funnily enough he voted for vayne because he was "obviously not town" just before he got modkilled. dun dun.. | ||
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On December 18 2013 01:08 JarJarDrinks wrote: Well, duh. After he fake claimed, I didn;t think he was a townread anymore. Gimme a sec and I'll dig up me defending him. I am sorry if i have missed something but why did you think vayne's alignment had anything to do with purple's after D2 lynch? | ||
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On December 18 2013 03:37 Grackaroni wrote: Scum won Time to DIe just from bussing one player. We lynched everybody against the wagon because people followed your logic that scum wouldn't bus. Who's Plutarch and how do you know it? | ||
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j/k | ||
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Yet you think i am SK? | ||
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Because you made the argument about 20 page filter 3p that seemed to me you're defending yourself and that's the only answer i would accept. The game goes shit if i die and you don't and you are town. | ||
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On December 18 2013 04:26 Grackaroni wrote: If I was mafia I'd be trolling right now. And if you are mafia how are you not trolling here? | ||
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Drop with the argument already because it has nothing to do with this game.. especially you BH since you are town. It does not help whether or not it's true. | ||
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On December 18 2013 04:36 Grackaroni wrote: I apologize for my rudeness. I thought you were pulling a ploy to discredit me. Heated situation. I'm really not sure if i am reading the thread correctly but wasn't it you who tried to reason your argument with "this is the guy who bla bla..." ? | ||
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Seems legit Grack and Xata. <3 | ||
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On December 18 2013 04:45 Grackaroni wrote: because I didn't think that wagon was a town wagon because Purple got lynched for no reason. The entire situation flipped when he jumped on board so I accredited it to him. And why did you check him instead of me? | ||
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On December 18 2013 04:47 Grackaroni wrote: I will probably be checking you tonight. Yeah maybe you will claim i am scum then. We'll see. | ||
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On December 18 2013 04:48 JarJarDrinks wrote: See, this how you can tell Plu is lying. Unless you believe that he's completely stupid and doesn't understand simple math. - We're @ 7/3/1. - We Lynch Xat today and go to 7/2/1 - Assuming 2 townies die tonight it goes to 5/2/1 - Now if we lynch Grack and he's the cop, it goes to 4/2/1 - 2 NKs make it 2/2/1 Him Saying is him claiming SK. Like is there a bigger scumtell than saying "Just lynch this guy. If he's town then U can lynch me tomorrow." Plu seems rasonably intelligent. Why would he make this statement when he knows that if grack is telling the truth and we lynch him, we lose? And how does this make sense? He'll lose in your scenario 100%. And what would he say if he is town? | ||
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On December 18 2013 04:59 JarJarDrinks wrote: Well he pretty much lost as soon as Grack claimed. But he doesn't lose 100% in this scenario. He can tie or he can win if town plays kingmaker. He would try his darndest to get Grack Lynched TODAY. This way everything is cleared up and we have scum to lynch tomorrow. The longer he keeps Grack alive, the more likely he makes it to the endgame. yeah no. | ||
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On December 18 2013 05:01 JarJarDrinks wrote: Xatalos. He's 100% scum while there's a chance I'm wrong about Plu. But on the next day, if you people lynch a an uncountered cop than we deserve to lose. So why the fuck are you arguing about this now unless you are scum? What are you trying to do? Tell us who we need to lynch tomorrow? Why? | ||
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There's been a lot of happenings lately. | ||
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On December 18 2013 05:19 Plutarch wrote: I didn't read that game. Did three scum all claim mafia day 3? They claimed every day. 5/6 scum claimed scum and the only one who didn't was shot by scum. | ||
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On December 18 2013 05:24 Plutarch wrote: I would still lose as the SK cause town would lynch me. You keep making these arguments based on my true, town, win condition and then calling me the sk. Really dumb. Actually that's not true if that was the situation because at this point town needs to lynch mafia. | ||
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In case there are 2 cops this game is quite imbalanced for mafia so i don't think there are 2 cops. The situation is resolved the next day in a way or another. | ||
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On December 18 2013 05:30 JarJarDrinks wrote: What are you talking about? We just established that if ur the SK and you shoot town, the town can't lynch you. WHy would you shoot @ scum and allow yourself to be lynched? Is there even a single person that is buying this? What are you talking about? If we have a counter-claim by someone who is a cop tomorrow then Grack is lying. If we don't we lynch Grack. | ||
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On December 18 2013 05:35 Plutarch wrote: You are boring now. You will get counterclaimed at the end of the night. Cop you have to counterclaim at the very end of the night. If Mafia snipe you and use their hide Role+Alignment ability on you town could lose. No, don't claim during the night. There is no need to. | ||
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On December 18 2013 05:45 JarJarDrinks wrote: Why would Grack make this play as scum? To save someone that claimed scum? Think, people! You should ask why would he make this play if he is town and is not trying to get the SK lynched? | ||
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On December 18 2013 05:52 Blazinghand wrote: nah actually xat more likely to flip scum and he did claim scum I guess he's the better policy lynch Are you sure? You need to recheck. Also do you think from Blazinghand pov, did Grackaroni have good enough breadcrumbs to be cop? | ||
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On December 18 2013 05:56 Blazinghand wrote: what was wrong with my post Nothing. I think you should have a "breadcrumb lesson" once a week. -.- | ||
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But if LSB is xigxag who is SK?[/b] | ||
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On December 19 2013 03:58 Blazinghand wrote: I think what they're saying isn't that there's a 2nd cop, but that you're lying fwiw there is a non-trivial chance there's a 2nd cop. I'd be srprised if we had 2 cops, but it's not impossible. No actually LSB is saying there is a chance of a second cop.. I don't believe in 2 cops. | ||
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On December 19 2013 04:00 Grackaroni wrote: still silly. i've been in here trying to help town. Plutarch just throws shit onto people for supporting me It does not matter. You either get cc'd or not. | ||
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Those guys have given no poinions, everyone else's opinions are quite known at this point. | ||
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On December 19 2013 04:01 Grackaroni wrote: if that CC was going to happen it would have happened by now. If there was a 2nd cop it should be pretty obvious. Don't be fucking stupid. If you are lying there is no reason the real cop should claim until 1min before deadline and you know it. | ||
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Grack is real cop -> there is not gonna be a CC. We lynch Plutarch the next day. Grack is lying -> there is a counter-claim at the deadline, we lynch Grack the next day. Plutarch could still be SK in the second scenario. | ||
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On December 19 2013 04:06 Grackaroni wrote: No chance of scum counterclaiming me tomorrow? Come on Rayn you are better than that. If someone CC's you tomorrow we lynch them, because they have been told to claim before deadline. | ||
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On December 19 2013 04:07 Blazinghand wrote: Man I really don't know like I know I'm supposed to be that guy who catches rayn when he's scum but if rayn is scum this game he has me fooled rather admirably. The only reason I have any suspicion of him is that when rayn is town he usually projects more of his personality. I usually get a feeling his town. There are definitely times when he's town and he doesn't do that but that's the thing that had him initially on my "what's the deal with this guy" list. Ultimately he's not doing the obvious thing like pretending to be drunk or pushing a no lynch or anything weird like that so I don't think he's a good lynch for tomorrow You have managed to play in games where i have played like absolute crap as scum BH.. But i am not scum, there is no way i would have lynched purple if i was mafia, i'm not stupid as scum. That would have been very very stupid, when i could have just lynched Vayne. | ||
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Because scum need 1 mislynch. If Grack is town it might actually be good to cc him tomorrow to get a lynch on Grack, then get a lynch on SK. | ||
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On December 19 2013 04:09 Blazinghand wrote: "i'm not stupid as scum" "I have played like absolute crap as scum" Nevermind. Do you really think i bussed my teammate with no reason to do so on D2? I dunno what your expectations of my scumplay are BH.. When i am sober.. | ||
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On December 19 2013 04:11 Blazinghand wrote: Oh, so you're saying we could reasonably expect a cop claim from a scum player, or an SK player, so we want to have them claim before the deadline rather than after, so that there is a risk of being proven wrong by the other faction's KP. I like that Of course. Also there is the possibilty scum have the janitor role, that can make things complicated. | ||
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On December 19 2013 04:29 Plutarch wrote: Don't know how grack can repeatedly claim scum and town is all like 'well he is probably the cop' lel. He is so clearly scum. You would be amazed. People doubt those things when scum literally claim scum.. I suggest you read Thug life and you might understand why i get mad in these situations. | ||
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On December 19 2013 04:32 Blazinghand wrote: oh shoot did grack actually claim scum? i missed it Not necessarily but that's a possibility. I don't like the claim. | ||
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He did not argue against vayne lynch on D2. When Purple came to be Vayne's counter-wagon this is what Grack had to say: On December 15 2013 05:53 Grackaroni wrote: wtf is this. I'm not voting purp. On December 15 2013 05:56 Grackaroni wrote: what a dumb day lol This is about a mafia wagon against his town check wagon.. Makes sense to you BH? | ||
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On December 19 2013 04:51 JarJarDrinks wrote: Rayn and BH. You do both agree that if there's no counterclaim, we kill Plu correct? Yes. If there is someone who is idiotic enough to understand they must CC then they played their cop role wrong. | ||
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On December 19 2013 04:57 Blazinghand wrote: so where are theese medic crumbs? Holyflare's crunb was quite clearly pointed out at some point. About kush idk. | ||
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What say you o'wise Blazinghand; proper way to crumb? | ||
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On December 19 2013 05:03 Plutarch wrote: No. Please read the game. I read through Xatalos' filter and he says something like. "Well as the medic is dead scum are going to kill plutarch tonight" Well that could be WIFOM. I think kush's filter is more valuable if you wanna determine who scum shot on N2. | ||
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On December 15 2013 11:57 kushm4sta wrote: hapa plz speculate: do you think rayn or yourself is gonna get hit tonight? On December 15 2013 23:57 kushm4sta wrote: therea re only 3 scum left right? (JarJarDrinks) Xatalos Alakaslam (xigxag) then lsb for sk On December 16 2013 01:26 kushm4sta wrote: not sure about my other reads but xatalos is definitely scum. artanis may be busing. Subtly wishy washy, leading question. Why would you even say this as town?? Why would you even suggest plutarch was scum for suggesting he knows who teh sk is?? On December 16 2013 05:32 kushm4sta wrote: ah if this was the situation, then I unagree with jarjar and agree with hapa. This is actually a pretty serious misrepresentation that you've made jarjar. And it's one I've seen scum do before. "Look how this guy did something he would do as either alignment! It must mean he is X alignment!" FOS jarjar | ||
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On December 19 2013 05:17 Grackaroni wrote: lol Rayn twisting the actions Exactly how am i doing that? | ||
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On December 19 2013 05:22 Grackaroni wrote: I explained that I was against the purple lynch so that is why I didn't vote. I was a vocal opponent of the purple lynch. Why wouldn't I vote Vayne during that wagon. Because it was D2 and you had a fucking "green check" on Vayne from N1. roflskates. | ||
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On December 19 2013 05:25 Grackaroni wrote: Yes. You are only considering it from the point of view of a cop. Not from the point of view of scum. If I was scum there is nothing stopping me from switching that vote. No, cop does not vote for their green checks unless they have strong reasons to believe they are GF, which you apparently did not have. Scum however, do not know if they are gonna claim a cop later on or not. Yeah you're scum. | ||
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On December 19 2013 05:28 Grackaroni wrote: And I didn't vote for my green check. Twist away Rayn. I don't give a fuck what you did and didn't but you are scum. | ||
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if you are a cop claim at the last second!! | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after. I have no idea why would you suddenly change that? | ||
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##Vote: Grackaroni | ||
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On December 19 2013 05:55 Grackaroni wrote: Well for one thing you have shown in thread that you have a night action. Would you like to make a cop claim Rayn? Umm how's that? | ||
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On December 19 2013 05:58 Grackaroni wrote: Right here lol. It's not like he said in thread "I am no longer accepting night actions" Yeah and the OP states otherwise? And the best play for the town was to cop to claim right before the deadline and then hosts go against their own rules by posting a day post before it's end of the phase? I had no idea Sentinel posted some flips already.. | ||
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On December 19 2013 06:04 Grackaroni wrote: It seemed to me like you wanted to change the kill off of Artanis. Nothing against you. You fucked us over with the Purple push and the Artanis shot so I am helping town. Even more so than Xatalos and I claiming lol. I didn't know how deep Xatalos had claimed scum. I couldn't get myself to make posts after my Purple defense so I thought I could cause some chaos and get a mislynch before I died. Except that i am not SK and i had no idea who was going to die or what the fuck happened. I pushed purple because he was so fucking scummy. I never even thought Artanis was scum after Xatalos flipped scum rofl. | ||
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Also my claim is in the second spoiler. there are 13 of them. I wanted you guys to shoot me in case you knew who was the cop. | ||
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I dunno, LSB or JJD. I dunno, i think LSB would shoot Bum on N1. I have no idea why he was shot, or why would anyone shoot him, he was so useless. | ||
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On December 19 2013 06:27 Grackaroni wrote: Just to confirm. You are arguing that the JJD, the guy who put himself out on a limb for me and made everyone else think he was scum" is the serial killer? Seems like a rather strange thing to do if he knows I am lying. The defense was so fucking strange i have no idea what's the town motivation behind it. I have no idea what the SK's game plan is so i really don't know. | ||
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On December 19 2013 06:31 Grackaroni wrote: I highly doubt Sidesprang would shoot Kushm4sta. It's not really a new player shot. I have no idea why anyone would shoot kushmasta.. Unless scum shot him rofl.. But apparently that was not true while he was quite right in his reads. | ||
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On December 19 2013 06:32 JarJarDrinks wrote: Well I mean, It was an absolutely terrible play as scum that couldn't possibly work and outed you for no reason. I'll probably fall into that trap everytime. I'll tell you a secret. If something does not make sense from scum!pov that's usually why they do it. If something does not make sense from a town!pov that makes them scum. Who's SK? | ||
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That way you can be proud of yourself as you didn't walk the plank for nothing. | ||
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Grack is possibly bullshitting. | ||
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LSB > JJD > sidesprang > Slam is where i stand. | ||
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2) Not necessarily, if the SK has inv-immunity they do not need to hit the cop. | ||
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On December 21 2013 05:55 Blazinghand wrote: SK has one of two powers, which he chooses at game start and can't change. either: 1) he is bulletproof and cannot be shot OR 2) he returns green to checks we don't know which one he is, so a green check on someone does not exonerrate them, but we can trust a red check Yes, but you said: On December 21 2013 05:38 Blazinghand wrote: but yeah since the sk may have investigation immunity, a green check is meaningless, it's a red check that matters SK shows as SK, not mafia, in case they chose BP. I thought you said they'll show as mafia (red) which was confusing. | ||
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Does anyone have any SK reads? Gimme a couple of hours to reread and get my thoughts in here. | ||
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gg guys, scum were too obvious and i just could not keep them alive. | ||
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I am pretty sure i had won if i was not investigated this night. 3/4 scum were quite obvious on D1. I thought Artanis was the cop, that's why i shot him. | ||
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On December 22 2013 11:41 sidesprang wrote: I assume you are talking about N3? I dont think i would have claimed, I was really struggling with it, cause I felt pretty safe from getting killed. I had a post ready tho just in case I decided to post 1 minute before. When Sent posted I panicked a bit and was wondering If I was still allowed to post, but I got a PM 21:42 saying he was gonna do the night post at 21:45. I kinda just timed out going back and forth on what to do. It might have been different if I had those 15 minutes to post, but atleast the lack of claim was not because I was not there yet or anything. I mean if you had claimed i would obviously have killed you last night. I was not worried about that night. Also claiming would probably have been the correct play if there wasn't the GM shenanigans with the day post.. | ||
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