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II Titanic Mini Mafia - Page 27

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 10 2013 09:38 GMT
#521
He downplays cora's intentions A LOT compared to Xant who is doing pretty much the same thing - in a different way - but apparently that is scummy whereas cora isn't.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 10 2013 09:39 GMT
#522
Yeah but i don't think either of Xata/Cora is scummy atm.
table for two on a tv tray
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 10 2013 09:40 GMT
#523
I'm partially blinded by b2b cora rage influencing my opinion at this moment
Plutarch
Profile Joined December 2013
Greece515 Posts
December 10 2013 09:40 GMT
#524
On December 10 2013 13:00 Plutarch wrote:
I feel as though artanis has applied a double standard towards what constitutes being in the spotlight and how this causes someone to be town or scum.

Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 07:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I don't find Corazon scummy at this point in time because he drew attention to himself without any scum benefit.


I don't understand how you can apply this reasoning toward corazon not being scum, and yet believe that Xatalos is scum despite also putting himself into the spotlight through the application of pressure and votes.

You mentioned a distinction that Xatalos was not actually putting himself into the spotlight despite clearly doing so.

Would you be able to clearly explain this distinction?


Relevant.
To make no mistakes is not in the power of man; but from their errors and mistakes the wise and good learn wisdom for the future.
Plutarch
Profile Joined December 2013
Greece515 Posts
December 10 2013 09:43 GMT
#525
On December 10 2013 18:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah but i don't think either of Xata/Cora is scummy atm.

Cora is scummy. If you notice my interactions with him he downright refuses to answer a simple question and instead tries to derail things by arguing over my wording.

Then when I clarify beyond all idiocy he leaves.

Also his Xatalos case was awful. But that is not alignment indicative.
To make no mistakes is not in the power of man; but from their errors and mistakes the wise and good learn wisdom for the future.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 10 2013 09:44 GMT
#526
The main point about Xatalos is he tends to start games as town as i used to. Asking questions left and right to start discussion. It was really hard to play against him in GoT because he was eager to gather all the possible information and question everything going on especially in the beginning of the game to find people's intentions. I basically had to try to distract / discredit him by calling him scummy in the same way i feel like Artanis is doing atm. The statement about the similitaries/differences in Xata/Cora Plutarch brings up regarding Artanis strengthens my scumread on him.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 10 2013 09:45 GMT
#527
EBWOP: I don't know if Xatalos does that as scum aswell but it definitely is not a scum-tell as i know he does that as town.
table for two on a tv tray
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 10 2013 09:48 GMT
#528
is you marv, plu?
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
December 10 2013 09:58 GMT
#529
marv not pluto
isn't xatalos talking way too much to be scum?
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 10 2013 09:59 GMT
#530
Plutarch i don't like this:
I see some dissonance between your first point and your second. Why would you be so inclined towards policy on low activity players when you have just acknowledged that people can be town and not be active?

Perhaps as you say you only require town to be active and you are, in fact, scum?

That is, as Cora says, clearly twisting his words.
table for two on a tv tray
Plutarch
Profile Joined December 2013
Greece515 Posts
December 10 2013 10:03 GMT
#531
On December 10 2013 18:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Plutarch i don't like this:
Show nested quote +
I see some dissonance between your first point and your second. Why would you be so inclined towards policy on low activity players when you have just acknowledged that people can be town and not be active?

Perhaps as you say you only require town to be active and you are, in fact, scum?

That is, as Cora says, clearly twisting his words.


I disagree. It didn't make sense that someone could state they aren't going to be super active (as town presumably) and then lynch based on an activity metric.

Regardless that was my first post which are always slight stretches. I find the part where Cora refuses outright to answer my question and instead forcefully derails the discussion to be much more interesting.
To make no mistakes is not in the power of man; but from their errors and mistakes the wise and good learn wisdom for the future.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 10 2013 10:08 GMT
#532
Plutarch you mean this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436388&currentpage=19#374

??
table for two on a tv tray
Plutarch
Profile Joined December 2013
Greece515 Posts
December 10 2013 10:09 GMT
#533
It starts from that post and continues on until his extended absence.
To make no mistakes is not in the power of man; but from their errors and mistakes the wise and good learn wisdom for the future.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 10 2013 10:10 GMT
#534
Yeah i agree with you. That's fishy indeed.
table for two on a tv tray
Spaghetticus
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia451 Posts
December 10 2013 10:23 GMT
#535
On December 10 2013 15:53 xigxag wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 15:49 Plutarch wrote:
Basically there is no way you can have a town read on kush and have it be meaningful or based on solid analysis, or any analysis at all.


Or I am better than you. I have the read and you have not refuted it.


This post took far too long to track down. :/

Pluto is a good player.

If that's not obvious to you yet then you should probably just assume that he's better because you're bad.

Your reasons for finding Kush town are non-existent, he's right to point this out. That you appeal to possible authority rather than give actual reasoning also looks poorly for you.
Spaghetticus
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia451 Posts
December 10 2013 10:27 GMT
#536
PANDAIN

Get in here.
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9856 Posts
December 10 2013 10:31 GMT
#537
On December 10 2013 19:27 Spaghetticus wrote:
PANDAIN

Get in here.

Can I play Pandain?
Artanis[Xp]
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Netherlands12971 Posts
December 10 2013 10:33 GMT
#538
On December 10 2013 08:01 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 07:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On December 10 2013 07:36 LSB wrote:
On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:
On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.

That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch

Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town.

So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive.

The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this.

I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing.

In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it.

This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie

I don't feel like Xatalos put himself in the spotlight as much as trying to put others in the spotlight. Corazon put himself in the spotlight without any scum gain. When you look at his post from a scum point of view, it doesn't make sense for them to make it. I can see a scum agenda behind Xatalos' posts. That said, I do like his view on my pressure on him in that it was nuanced rather than trying to score town points. The rest of the day should provide more information.
On December 10 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote:
Nobody going to discuss cora's mindset or are you going to dismiss it outright for xantos discussion some more?

On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum.


Given you quoted me I take it you'd like a response from me? I don't find Corazon scummy at this point in time because he drew attention to himself without any scum benefit.


Is it not also a scum mindset to heavily defend themselves when attacked, unnaturally so? Also while defending themselves to then deflect upon another person? Why are you only looking for the people that are "starting shit"? I only know a few scum that play that way. Have you any scum meta on Xatalos that suggests he plays like he is?

I don't like how you're so dismissive over cora without discussion when with Xantos you skim the filters to discuss him further.

Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum.


Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:
On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.

That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch

Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town.

So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive.

The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this.

I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing.


Look at the difference between these two points - on the one hand (cora) is dismissed by saying "I don't think scum plays that way" whereas the second (Xatalos) is "I have skimmed it briefly and think it's different because X,Y,Z. Question, question.

It's simple. Cora's post could not achieve any scum agenda. I don't see scum reasoning behind his posts more so than a town player would, whereas Xalatos' posts can definitely serve a scum agenda, and I feel they have though I liked his followups since then.

I like LSB's points on Sidesprang and Rayn's points on purple. Rayn's more so than LSB but I'd need to do a rereading and I'm lazy.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 10 2013 10:38 GMT
#539
Well lately i always make a case on scum on D1 so you guys can just sheep me.
table for two on a tv tray
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 10 2013 10:41 GMT
#540
I'm not sure I follow you in regards to pushing "scum agendas". It's quite simple for a person to not do anything other than their normal town play as scum on day 1. Why would scum be pushing "agendas" so brazenly? The only reason they would need to conform to some agenda would be to get votes off of a person if it was their scum buddy - in this case - it would be off of cora who he is attacking.
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