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On December 04 2013 11:51 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 11:49 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2013 11:41 VisceraEyes wrote: Austin that statement was so weird...why would you consider lynching someone if you agree with his targets? Who cares if they flip town, if you agree with his targets why would them flipping town change your read on Roffles? Nono. He was on my list of people to look into as I was catching up. When I filtered him, his filter looks not great to me except that the people he's calling mafia are people I like other people to call mafia. My agreement is ... important to me for today, but really it's that if they flip red, he's calling out mafioso on D1, unlikely to be mafia. If they flip town, whether I liked his reads or no, the only thing that I really liked in his filter were reads that turned out to be on townies. I can be wrong. Sometimes. Everyone can be wrong. But if they flip green/blue then all we had in common was that we would have made similar mislynches, and that feels....less good than both making similar scum lynches. Except what you said was that you wouldn't lynch him unless they started flipping green. I get "less good" but that's a farcry from "I will lynch because" If his D1 scumreads start flipping red, I do not want to lynch him.
I suppose that is a true statement about everybody.
I, austinmcc, hereby promise that anyone who calls out 3 people today who all flip scum shall not be lynched by me, barring me going back on this statement.
It just looked more relevant to me about him because the thing I like is the reads, and not really anything else.
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On December 04 2013 11:57 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 11:53 austinmcc wrote:If his D1 scumreads start flipping red, I do not want to lynch him.
I suppose that is a true statement about everybody.
I, austinmcc, hereby promise that anyone who calls out 3 people today who all flip scum shall not be lynched by me, barring me going back on this statement.
It just looked more relevant to me about him because the thing I like is the reads, and not really anything else. You mean like except me or kush right? I know that you both seem to have acquired mythical reputations for just bussing and being bussed, but I have not experienced that from ... I think I have only played one game where either of you was scum? And that was us in Demon's Run.
So no, I'm not auto-lynching you guys if you call scum scummy on D1.
Besides, based on what I can tell, I would never need to. If you identify a bunch of scummers D1, someone with KP will yell AMG GERIPT SCUM and blast you. I'll never have to cast a vote.
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Howdy. Gonna post stuff I found interesting as I was catching up, then I can address the people who want to lynch me.
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THIS WAS THE BEST POST OF THE LAST WHATEVER HOURS AND EVERYONE MISSED ITOn December 05 2013 09:34 geript wrote: That obv can make Lylo/mylo up recognizable points. I wanted to go for ezreal but I figured she'd go high. It might not have even been intentional. But seriously, you guys need to lighten up.
On December 05 2013 05:15 Promethelax wrote: marv, austin and Rayn please comment on the validity of town reading Ticklish and Jay off of the fact that they forgot to send in picks during the number phase. I believe this is a valid heuristic and would like input on the subject Prome is dead, but I think it's of limited use. For those that post but didn't submit, yes, you'd expect them to be in scum QT if they were scum and to check in and pick numbers, etc. etc. If they only posted during a small window or two of the day though, early on, then it's null because someone could have been around before picks really hammered out in QT, and therefore it's not an alignment thing. It only applies if the person would have been checking QT when strat was being laid out.
On December 05 2013 02:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 02:29 marvellosity wrote: Koshi just wrote in succinct form something pretty similar to what I thought and said there.
Whatever this frustration you have with Koshi is, I'm finding it quite bizarre the way you're going about it. I can't justify lynching him because he's the inventor and as long as there's a chance he's town he's valuable.His flat out refusal to do anything at all combined with his "fuck you guys" attitude towards the town whenever we ask for something useful is just pissing me off. He knows he won't be lynched so he's using it as a free pass to do nothing. I'm gonna take a break for a while. Hey hey hey hey hey. Did people read this post? MZ basically rightfully says that town isn't going to lynch the inventor. Also, someone should probably check him somehow. Wink wink VE.
However, what has MZ done in the last like...48ish hours? Oh right. He spent most of it poking at Koshi. He poked at Koshi for a while AFTER posting this. MZ's thought process:- Koshi looks screwy, maybe mafia
- We are not going to lynch Koshi, regardless
- I am going to continue to just snipe at Koshi, because that is useful given that we are not going to lynch him
Didn't like. Don't like. MZ gets a bunch of posts and activity out of attacking someone that he specifically, and rightfully, says isn't going to get lynched. But that's his focus.
I didn't like this post of marv's because of the above:On December 05 2013 02:54 marvellosity wrote: Ok, there definitely exists the possibility that you are a townie who is oddly tunnelled on Koshi and you're confirmation biasing yourself negatively on everything he says. Not sure there's anything more to say about this in particular for now. (This post was to MZ from marv). It was CLEAR that MZ was tunnelled in on Koshi. And normally, MZ might be townie for tunnelling in and just reading everything in a negative light. But again, MZ recognizes that Koshi won't get lynched.
So why tunnel in on someone and focus all your effort on someone who isn't going to get lynched, and, because of the reason for the not-lynching, isn't going to get shot/killed by town? The only way town kills Koshi is if town gets proof of a mafia-favored invention, a trustable red check, etc. etc. It's ALL wasted effort. Boo MZ.
Boo kush too!
On December 05 2013 07:28 kushm4sta wrote: actually nvm i read rean's filter and he's probably town. rayne you would say he is town right? expressing opinion on bans. His posts are honest for his current knowledge of the game and activity level. On December 05 2013 21:58 kushm4sta wrote: raynpeeonmyface i have a question for you.
I thought your super solid towntell was that if you debated early game about bans and shit, that automatically made you town.
Ream did that. So....? Here are Rean's pick/ban/numberpickin' discussions. All of em
+ Show Spoiler +On November 30 2013 12:26 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 12:19 supersoft wrote: My draftnumbers will be 1 and 30. I want a hero with KP... Or some kind of protection lol. I dare you to take my numbers.
If no other townie picks my numbers, i'll either be firstpick, or if some scummer "sacrifices" himself on my numbers, we will both be lastpick.
Can we somehow organize this? I mean next one could be Mig with 2 and 30, then BC 3 and 30, then sandroba 4 and 30 etc. Does that make sense? Technically I suppose you could, numbers are made public I believe. But good luck getting people to agree it. ##Vote: GravesHis ability serves no purpose to town at all. Is it encouraged to roleplay as the player we were assigned? On November 30 2013 13:05 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 12:58 OdinOfPergo wrote:On November 30 2013 12:51 Rean wrote:On November 30 2013 12:48 OdinOfPergo wrote: I actually don't think we should ban champs like Talon. Yes they might be nice for mafia early on in the game by denying early checks... But really... if you're playing a scum agenda... you're going to get busted for it. The same way a Godfather gets busted for it.
It's 100% the same principle. You're aware that there's no way for us to known that those champs would be picked so we can't just bust them for it? Yes. But think of a un-themed game. You are not notified that a God father, Roleblocker, etc. is in the game... However you come to realize the fact before all to long usually ye? I mean I could be wrong but my gut instinct is to ban champs like Ahri, Amumu, Blitz, etc. Champs that could change the order that towns actions hit. Champs that could reduce the # of votes (IE specifically Amumu) on a scum vs town Lynch wagon could potentially be catastrophic. Feel free to discuss. We do have 23 hours.. I get your point yeah, but it's the choice between roles that could be useful for both town and scum and roles that only benefit scum here since we only get three bans, so it seems to me it's better to eliminate champs that will never be useful for town (IMO, Graves + Talon + Yorick) On November 30 2013 13:10 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 13:05 Rean wrote:On November 30 2013 12:58 OdinOfPergo wrote:On November 30 2013 12:51 Rean wrote:On November 30 2013 12:48 OdinOfPergo wrote: I actually don't think we should ban champs like Talon. Yes they might be nice for mafia early on in the game by denying early checks... But really... if you're playing a scum agenda... you're going to get busted for it. The same way a Godfather gets busted for it.
It's 100% the same principle. You're aware that there's no way for us to known that those champs would be picked so we can't just bust them for it? Yes. But think of a un-themed game. You are not notified that a God father, Roleblocker, etc. is in the game... However you come to realize the fact before all to long usually ye? I mean I could be wrong but my gut instinct is to ban champs like Ahri, Amumu, Blitz, etc. Champs that could change the order that towns actions hit. Champs that could reduce the # of votes (IE specifically Amumu) on a scum vs town Lynch wagon could potentially be catastrophic. Feel free to discuss. We do have 23 hours.. I get your point yeah, but it's the choice between roles that could be useful for both town and scum and roles that only benefit scum here since we only get three bans, so it seems to me it's better to eliminate champs that will never be useful for town (IMO, Graves + Talon + Yorick) Add Amumu to that list aswell, will almost never be good for town. On November 30 2013 13:41 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 13:16 sandroba wrote: And btw, I think graves is a pretty efficient ban too. Sure there are a few heroes that hide scum's alignment but graves is unique because as far as i can tell he is the only hero that can make a townie return red to a check, on top of hiding scum's alignment. If he is out of the game a red check means scum for certain. In a game like this with hidden abilities and so many different roles checks are very, very unreliable. Eliminating Graves in this case won't change it that much, but it's a good start. Although, thinking about it, maybe Amumu is a better vote than Graves due to how unreliable checks will be in general. On November 30 2013 14:58 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 14:48 JonnyLaw wrote: Rereading abilities I think Karthus should be ban priority.
That's a huge blow to us if karthus channels an ult on strong town players. Similarly to others, it's nasty but can still be used in a town way. Champs like Yorick/Amumu/Talon/Graves are scarier IMO. Also, ##Unvote ##Vote: Yorick
When thinking about it a little more, he's more dangerous to town than Graves is. On December 01 2013 05:42 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 05:25 geript wrote: @Rayn. Graves is a bad ban choice. Scum banning cops will be irrelevant of whether Graves will be available. At best, Graves is a role which a low draft scum may pick up because town are highly unlikely to take it. That's not worth a ban. Banning a powerful KP ability to deny it from scum is better. If we don't ban Graves all investigations might aswell be useless because they could just be framed. KP roles are not good in the hands of scum either but there's more important bans to be made (Graves/Yorick)
Yes. He talks about bans. But all he does is say "the anti-town champs are anti-town." Apparently Janna became a topic. No comment on Janna. There were people who had whole number picking schemes. No comment on them. People had lists of champs, who goes high, who goes mid tier, etc. etc. No comment on them.
He has a bunch of comments on the bans, but EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is "anti-town champs should be banned, because they are bad for town."
Let alone that he says KP roles are no good for mafia, and that ALL investigations "might as well be useless" if graves is in the game. Kush is seeing things. The ban discussion isn't really discussion at all; it's ban tautology.
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Anyway, sandro.
I'm never this absent as town, true. I'm also never THIS absent as mafia. When I get going, I'm spammy as both alignments, and I don't LIKE playing lurky mafia even when I have for a couple days.
As far as my townreads being based on very little, check my last couple games. LXIII and Thug Life. Now, LXIII is ongoing and I ain't dead so you don't know my alignment (except if you read the game you will). I call MULTIPLE people in Thug Life town based on a post or two (and I think all of them flip town, ShiaoPi, FirmTofu, Oats). I call some people in LXIII town based on single little things. I have people I would LOVE to be mafia, but don't vote them because they've got a single post or two that just can't be mafia. Recently, I have had very very very good success rate at finding posts that can only come from townies, so I'm going with it.
See my Kurumi read this game. Now, you dont' know my alignment, but I said Kurumi was very very likely town cuz of the one comment, and Kurumi was town. Not worth jack til postgame/next game, but it's not uncommong for me to call people town off single posts, and it's been WORKING and RIGHT for the last couple games.
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I still have rayn town. I have JAT town still. I have Odin town.
MZ still looks scummy to me. He's dropped in a time or two, but only to focus on jabbing at Koshi despite saying Koshi was not gonna get lynched, and now to poke at me just a lil'.
Rean looks stranger, because he finally has a read, but it's just me, and he's never ever ever ever ever justified it one bit. Yet now with other votes on me, he just posts about me all day urrday and it's cool. I'd like to see him talk about some other folks. Everyone else would like to see him talk about some other folks. So, he should do that.
I did not take any damage beyond the damage from Rean last night.
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On December 06 2013 12:03 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah you also know who is right a lot austin? Scum.
Yeah, they are.
Have you seen me do this in scum games?
Have you seen me do this in town games?
At the very least, do you think sandro is correct in thinking it's alignment-determinative?
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On December 06 2013 12:10 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 12:00 austinmcc wrote: I still have rayn town. I have JAT town still. I have Odin town.
MZ still looks scummy to me. He's dropped in a time or two, but only to focus on jabbing at Koshi despite saying Koshi was not gonna get lynched, and now to poke at me just a lil'.
Rean looks stranger, because he finally has a read, but it's just me, and he's never ever ever ever ever justified it one bit. Yet now with other votes on me, he just posts about me all day urrday and it's cool. I'd like to see him talk about some other folks. Everyone else would like to see him talk about some other folks. So, he should do that.
I did not take any damage beyond the damage from Rean last night. Why is odin town, have you seen my case on him? He's got substantive posts on the pick/ban discussion. Wants to ban Graves and Yorick, unsure on who the third should be, specifically chooses out a couple champs and decides between them, with reasoning.
Participating in non-ban stuff early. Reads on VE, Marv, asking about people's reads on rayn.
But mainly, it's this post - On December 03 2013 12:07 OdinOfPergo wrote: You are 100% sure Bum is scum because he said he was going to pick trynd.... and didn't?
LSB calls Bum mafia because Bum said he was going to pick trynd and didn't. This makes no sense. Why does mafia bum do that? Why might town bum do that? Why does THIS lie make bum mafia?
JAT and odin both asked LSB about that. I had them both very very townie because of it.
Ta da! Another one post townread, brought to you by austinmcc.
As far as your case, his reasoning for not voting is BUTTLICIOUS. Not in a good-tasting-butt way, but in a THAT TASTES LIKE BAD BUTT way. But...it's right in your face. What mafia says I AM NOT GOING TO VOTE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE SCUM BUT YOU ARE GOING TO BE LYNCHED? If someone doesn't want to be on the bum lynch, fine, but they don't SAY they find him scummy and aren't voting cuz he's lynched anyway. They don't SAY "I hereby throw my vote away despite thinking that dude is scum."
Your case is based....almost entirely off of his votes. I think that: (1) his pre-day 1 play looks townie; (2) he asked a question that comes from a townie; and (3) ain't no mafia say that voting stuff he said.
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On December 06 2013 12:20 kushm4sta wrote: @austin about the ban thing, I doubt discussing bans makes you town. That post was more about a contradiction in RAYNE's thinking. Rayne was the one who said discussing bans in an automatic clear. Yeah, I know that. But I mostly agree with rayn on that.
However.
Look at dem posts. Stare into their souls. Deep deep deep into their souls.
Now. WHO IS THE ONION?
Also, do those posts really look like discussing bans? I know rayn says discussing bans = automatic clear. Do Rean's posts, if you look at em and digest em, actually look like he's discussing bans? Discussing being a key word.
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On December 06 2013 12:24 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 11:53 austinmcc wrote: Yes. He talks about bans. But all he does is say "the anti-town champs are anti-town." Apparently Janna became a topic. No comment on Janna. There were people who had whole number picking schemes. No comment on them. People had lists of champs, who goes high, who goes mid tier, etc. etc. No comment on them.
He has a bunch of comments on the bans, but EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is "anti-town champs should be banned, because they are bad for town."
Let alone that he says KP roles are no good for mafia, and that ALL investigations "might as well be useless" if graves is in the game. Kush is seeing things. The ban discussion isn't really discussion at all; it's ban tautology. 1. See a theme here? I was around earlier and then disappeared for a while. I WONDER WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED. 2. I was pointing out the champs that serve no purpose to town, only mafia. Don't try and simplify what I said to make me look useless. 3. I already told you that you didn't interpret that correctly. If you bothered to read my damn filter you'd know this. Goes towards showing how much attention you pay. And what I said is certainly true, with Graves ingame checks become a massive WIFOM paradise. srs. Almost EVERY game that has DTs in it has godfather/framer/both/whatever. There are VERY VERY VERY few games where you have investigative roles and NO way to mess with checks. The fact that ONE role can mess with a single target each night does not make checks a massive WIFOM paradise or mostly useless.
Do you think that you needed to point out champs that serve no purpose to town, only mafia? Did anyone ever disagree and say those champs have town purposes?
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Not sure why it generates the text covering up 1/3 of fry's face. Booo memegenerator. Booo.
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Gonna go read Johnny since he's at issue.
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On December 06 2013 12:42 Mocsta wrote: @Austin
Can you please confirm if you are full heatlh. No. I took the 50 from rean. Did not take any other damage.
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austinmcc's JonnyLaw thoughts:
His D0 discussion fine. Specifically, voting amumu because yorick has plenty of votes is slightly townie. I don't personally think amumu was super strong (it's conditional, right? you have to get actioned to get anti-votes?), but still a fine role to want to ban out, and noticing that the guy you were on is 100% banned so you're trying to push another ban is townie.
Continues to use his ban. Amumu not gonna be a ban, looks for new options, is compaining about rayn's posting while still reading it and digesting it. That feels mildy townie.
On December 01 2013 13:28 JonnyLaw wrote:Warwick's not a strong first pick. + Show Spoiler +At night, you may submit the name and champion name of a player This means we need to know which champion the player has successfully picked. Why pick trynd at all? Just so you know who has tryndamere? There's not a chance in hell I'm picking that champion. I plan to contribute to winning this game. Dealing damage to people above/below me does not help us win the game. I don't even understand. Actually, I must say fuck your list. I disagree strongly with most of the conclusions. I think you're scum as is. This also reads...I think townie? Sees bum's list. Is the FIRST to comment on bum's list. Has some specific reasons that show he's actually thinking --> warwick only strong with certain information, trynd doesn't help town win, etc. It's not the MOST townie minded thing, but I don't see Jonny being the FIRST response to bum's list and just blasting it. And it's not just one post, he continues the discussion. With decent reasoning.On December 01 2013 15:10 JonnyLaw wrote: Look at Ziggs/twitch/eve for guaranteed damage. Then there are defensive champs for scum who already know their teammates. Warwick and trynd are just garbage imo. I like this post. Guaranteed damage good for scum. Defensive champs great because you know who you need to be protecting, can maybe stop called shots (might out yourself in doing so, etc., but it's a good thought I think). He is really fully articulating why he doesn't like bum's plan. I can see his thoughts. I think this is good.
Already, I think he's town. From what he's said and the way he's said it.
Comes back. Drops a few sorta reads. gtrsrs read is mush. Others are reads, if slightly vague on soniv.
Very focused on those 3 for a bit. Interacts with other people only about those three. But a decent amount of posting and reasoning on them.
Continues giving reads, or at least reading filters. Has clear rules that he's applying (soniv shrugging off accusations = town, whereas MZ super defensive).
Gives reads when asked, and then asks WHY those people. I like that.
LOLOLOLOL VOTES HIMSELF DUE TO FORMATTING. WHY IS EVERYONE SO MAD THIS GAME? SOMEONE ACCIDENTALLY SELF-VOTED AND SOMEONE CALLED EZ A GIRL. THIS IS A GOOD AND FUN GAME.
I don't love the vote. He's got suspects in kush certainly, and MZ slightly. But he's down to vote Bum. He responds to the question about people jumping on bum without hesitation. I don't ... I don't love his explanation there. Bum defended Jonny and then quit under pressure. Based on Jonny saying scumbum wasn't taking the easier lynch, i think he SHOULD find bum townie, or townieish.
Appears to have actually gone to look at Jaybrundage's past game in nomination. He doesn't need to do this. He's following up on things that are happening.
I don't love that he doesn't push HIS lynches. But I like how his reads come about, find him generally consistent, and very much like his D0 play. His vote is the only questionable thing. It's not enough to put him scum in my book.
Defense of soniv by saying gtrsrs's case is bad, doesn't mean soniv is town, but case is bad, reads funky at first glance. He was towny on soniv. Meh on gtr. I think he has legitimate points as to why he dislikes gtr's case, but he's not....I feel like he should be solidly on a soniv read here.
MY READ: HE IS TOWN
D0 LOOKS VERY TOWNIE. HAS REASONING BEHIND BANS, IS USING HIS VOTE FOR GOOD THINGS, IS DISCUSSING ACTUAL READS, ETC.
HIS READS LOOK GENUINE WHEN THEY COME FROM HIM. CONSISTENT RULES HE'S USING TO SEPARATE TOWN/SCUM.
HIS VOTE LOOKS MEH. DON'T LOVE. HIS RESPONSE TO GTRSRS CASE IS GOOD EXCEPT I THINK IT'S WONKY THAT HE'S NOT PUSHING SONIV TOWN STILL.
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READING CASES ON JONNY
Lol now I have to reread after you and koshi talking about him looking town at first glance.
Agree that prome's calling out of that one post is solid. I'm torn because I just lynched town rayn in a game for...similarish reasons. He CAN dominate a thread with a lot of posts and it feels like it's not helping. He can play anti-town, as seen by others, when he's town, just because he'll be ... overactive at points? But I assume Jonny doesn't know rayn well and wouldn't have this mindset, so it's points for Prome and points for scum Jonny.
He DOES have a problem calling people 10000% scum. He DOES have a problem putting conviction behind what he presents as his own scumreads (he arrived at kush, maybeish gtrsrs, maybeish MZ).
I disagree with you on his D0 discussion. His poo poo of an urgot ban b/c damage, but ww bad because twitch/eve/ziggs guaranteed damage does not fit. Does not fit at all. But the way he's contributing and arguing looks townie to me.
Gut still says town. For all the shitposting you accuse him of, a lot of it is VERY in your face/cursey/confrontative. I don't know that I see scum making enemies so hard. And I think his D0 looks townier than you do. I don't think he's the first to respond to bum's plan, call it bad, point out reasons it's bad, continue to discuss why he dislikes it, if he's mafia.
I would like to see him be...firmer in his scumreads. And willing to push them. But for now, I'm townie on him.
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On December 06 2013 13:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Austin is mostly a lurker to me - he's been gone most of the cycle and now he's posting complete gibberish. Yo.
Agree/disagree that MZ saying Koshi isn't going to be lynched, but spending a bunch of posts poking at him and halfway calling him scummyish is funky?
Agree/disagree that rean's posts D0 aren't so much discussion as they are "Anti-town champs are anti-town."
Agree/disagree that you shouldn't lynch me D2.
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On December 06 2013 13:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Well let's lynch austin unless he pulls some sick shit and then get to work on killing lurkers. Since you asked.
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On December 06 2013 13:22 OdinOfPergo wrote: @Austin,
No you're wrong. How many times has this been implied?
?
Wrong on what?
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On December 06 2013 13:26 geript wrote: @Austin. Yah he's combative but I'm not quite sure I've seen a townie be that adversarial before. I think I've only seen it in myself when I've played on another site where I've had like 80 different exceptionally negative experiences. I mean I literally called out the whole scum team (and I wasn't bussing) and got lynched instead and then got called least valuable townie for that game. I've seen it in only a couple people, and it was mainly a town thing. There was some dude in a newbie or two of mine that was SUPER combative as town, really really really so, and then lurked hard as scum.
Or like...I think of VA as super combative. He's just way less verbose about it, but he'll combat you like a mothereffer.
I don't think Jonny is mafia.
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VE your vote on me is a bad vote and you should remove it.
If you are solely killing lurkers, kill a different lurker.
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