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@JJD
If I was scum in that situation, what would I do? I would have 2 goals:
1. Keep Rayn alive
2. Not change my story in my attempt to keep Rayn alive
The only reason I could see scum trying to lynch Rayn is if his reads were right. So either:
1. All the scum did not vote for Rayn
2. Rayn's reads are at least somewhat correct (at least 1 is scum)
3. The scumteam is just bad
To be fair to Onegu, he said that he was not able to make a post before the deadline but to be honest I looked at the time for Australia and I really believe that Onegu could have made a post that said "Hey guys, I don't think Rayn is scum. I'm sticking with my vote" which would have made me accept his vote more.
The fact that he didn't kind of points to the fact that he doesn't care about the lynch, a sentiment that has been echoed by many players here.
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On November 23 2013 02:28 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 02:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
The only reason I could see scum trying to lynch Rayn is if his reads were right. Um. wouldn't scum be more inclined to have him flip green ASAP if his reads were wrong?
Well I think it is a trade off between killing a green now and no-lynching D1/lynching Rayn D2.
If I was scum, I would rather have the chaos of what the Rayn discussion brought continue over having him flip now. Instead of us spending 2 days only talking about Rayn, now we have peace and we can focus on other targets that are actually scum.
Perhaps the scum felt that the chances of lynching a town D2 are high as well even with the town in a more focused mindset w/o Rayn. That's also a possibility.
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On November 23 2013 02:38 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 02:30 Holyflare wrote:On November 23 2013 02:28 JarJarDrinks wrote:On November 23 2013 02:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
The only reason I could see scum trying to lynch Rayn is if his reads were right. Um. wouldn't scum be more inclined to have him flip green ASAP if his reads were wrong? Yes, rayn pushes any target he has forever, wrong or right. If he's alive he can screw up the thread in that respect (as you guys saw). If his reads were wrong a scum team that knows him would keep him alive. So most likely his reads were right and he got lynched ("policy lynched") for it. This doesn't make sense to me. You say he "screw[ed] up the thread" as we saw. But no one listened to him at all. So why would scum care to have him leave the thread if he's shitting it up AND no one is listening to him? Once he's gone, the town knows all his reads are real.
Yes but the town atmosphere for the last 12 hours of the game was absolutely terrible. If we had no-lynched Rayn would still an issue and we would waste D2 on it. I guarantee that.
That is why it was a hard choice for me to not vote Rayn.
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On November 23 2013 02:49 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 02:41 cDgCorazon wrote:
Yes but the town atmosphere for the last 12 hours of the game was absolutely terrible. If we had no-lynched Rayn would still an issue and we would waste D2 on it. I guarantee that. So then how could you say that Scum would want to lynch rayn if his reads were right? They should want to keep him in the game no matter what. But especially if his reads were right.
Well I also said the scum could be misreading the game. That would be possible especially if they have been lurking and not posting in the thread.
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"Misreading the game" counts as bad.
It was kind of a new idea I had and I didn't distinguish it from my other ones. Sorry.
Why do you think the scumteam would let Rayn be lynched and do you think the scum's votes are on or off Rayn (or a mixture of the two)?
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On November 23 2013 03:34 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 02:30 Holyflare wrote:On November 23 2013 02:28 JarJarDrinks wrote:On November 23 2013 02:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
The only reason I could see scum trying to lynch Rayn is if his reads were right. Um. wouldn't scum be more inclined to have him flip green ASAP if his reads were wrong? Yes, rayn pushes any target he has forever, wrong or right. If he's alive he can screw up the thread in that respect (as you guys saw). If his reads were wrong a scum team that knows him would keep him alive. So most likely his reads were right and he got lynched ("policy lynched") for it. Cora, Holyflare: if you think I (or JJD or Mocsta for that matter) are scum, come at me bro. let me know what specifically you find scummy about me and what issues you take with my play and I'll do my best to explain my thought process to you as I did with thrawn. don't FOS me on the basis that "rayn was town and since he was lynched his scum reads are probably right". that's a flimsy argument to make - being town does not make you infallible. do you honestly think JJD, mocsta, and I are the mafia trifecta, in your own independent assessments? if yes, tell me why, because I'm inclined to think rayn is 0 out of 3 on this one.
Why are you throwing me into this? I'm trying to discern what the real reason scum had for voting Rayn out. Do you think that no scum was on the Rayn wagon?
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On November 23 2013 08:38 Bereft wrote:
@Cora
yeah that was more directed at HF than you. wasn't quite following your line of reasoning but thought you were insinuating the same thing (due to the part JJD bolded). I see what you're trying to say now though. I haven't really thought about it, but hypothesizing like that by itself will be an unproductive mind fuck for me.
I think it's possible there was scum on rayn's wagon only by virtue of the fact that I have some suspicions of 1-2 people on that list.
So you have a scum read on Moc, JJD, or both?
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On November 23 2013 09:48 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
sihh
you huysbare playing like rayn.
looking too much into words spoken and go.... oohh scum slip scum slip.
thats stupid play.. townies say incorrect things all the time
need to start looking into motive. anyone reading the thread from page 27 onwards should have known with crystal clear clarity that rayn was the elephant in the room that needed too be discussed.
avoiding this discussion is scummy, especially because he is green in hindsight.
giving weak beans reasons that he istown, and presenting a counter and then disappearing is also weak beans. all that is doing is satisfying the checklist of what to do near a lynch.
conviction people.
I expect the night kill to be myself or thrawn, probably thrawn since some of you are starting to question me.
if I die, please read over my posts carefully. my confirmed flip DOES NOT make my reads right, but at least guarantees my intent is there.
people like onegu, holy, rwan are the best flips for day2.
I would go with holyflare personally as he has the best chance to convince you guys he is town but for all the wrong reasons,
cheers guys, I have enjoyed playing this game and don't regret lynching rayn. I feel it was a byproduct of having a majority lynch setup but we can save thiabdiscussion for post game.
if I'm alive, I will be out for maybe the first 24hrs. sorry, but real life is real life.
good lcuk in case you die look at JJD and bereft real quick. just indulge me, please
Please stop +1ing Mocsta
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On November 23 2013 09:58 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 09:49 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 23 2013 09:48 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 23 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
sihh
you huysbare playing like rayn.
looking too much into words spoken and go.... oohh scum slip scum slip.
thats stupid play.. townies say incorrect things all the time
need to start looking into motive. anyone reading the thread from page 27 onwards should have known with crystal clear clarity that rayn was the elephant in the room that needed too be discussed.
avoiding this discussion is scummy, especially because he is green in hindsight.
giving weak beans reasons that he istown, and presenting a counter and then disappearing is also weak beans. all that is doing is satisfying the checklist of what to do near a lynch.
conviction people.
I expect the night kill to be myself or thrawn, probably thrawn since some of you are starting to question me.
if I die, please read over my posts carefully. my confirmed flip DOES NOT make my reads right, but at least guarantees my intent is there.
people like onegu, holy, rwan are the best flips for day2.
I would go with holyflare personally as he has the best chance to convince you guys he is town but for all the wrong reasons,
cheers guys, I have enjoyed playing this game and don't regret lynching rayn. I feel it was a byproduct of having a majority lynch setup but we can save thiabdiscussion for post game.
if I'm alive, I will be out for maybe the first 24hrs. sorry, but real life is real life.
good lcuk in case you die look at JJD and bereft real quick. just indulge me, please Please stop +1ing Mocsta I don't know you're talking about. I'm trying to get his opinion on something. If you think that we are both town and I'm doing something anti town then let me know exactly what it is and why it's bad so I can stop. If you think one or both of us is scum then you should tell the thread. If this has nothing to do with any of that, and it's about you and mocsta not getting along then please stop.
No, it's the fact that you have been trying to be Mocsta's hydra this entire game. You do very little on your own and most of the time you are just springboarding off of Mocsta' arguments.
I'm null on you right now and I'm not going to worry about you cause you're not a good lynch D2 but your play needs to step up if you don't want my vote down the line.
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On November 23 2013 10:32 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon I'd like to see your thoughts on Jampidampi.
No thread presence. He played a very little part in D1 and that doesn't reflect very well on my read on him. I think if there was a scum OFF the Rayn lynch, it is very likely to be him. I'd be down lynching him tomorrow if it comes to that.
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On November 23 2013 10:38 sciberbia wrote:Have some questions for you Cora. 1) Can you explain what you were talking about in this post? How exactly did you think rayn was trying to gain town cred by going on a rampage and martyring himself? Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really do not like Rayn martyring...tbh the concept of martyring has been beaten to death and I think he's just using it as a ploy to gain town cred.
2) If you think it would have been beneficial to scum to keep rayn alive yesterday EVEN given that he is town, why would you not vote for him yesterday? Surely if you think lynching town!rayn would be bad for scum, then it would be good for town? And if he flipped scum even better, right? I don't see how you reconcile voting for no lynch with claiming that it would have been better for scum to no-lynch yesterday.
Ok, to be honest, the Rayn lynch was basically impossible for me to pick a side. On one hand, I really thought Rayn was town. On the other hand, Rayn's play was very anti-town. It is a very narrow playstyle that Rayn's townplay fits into. He can be town but not an asset to town at the same time. That is the reason I'm not attacking Mocsta after Rayn's flip.
I think I'm being misrepresented (or perhaps I have misrepresented myself) to say that I was against the Rayn lynch. Rayn's really bad townplay, along with the fact that it was a majority lynch, gave me a choice of either lynching someone who I was very confident was town or having him shit up the thread.
I think my thought process would make more sense if I went through it.
At the beginning, when I made all of those "OMG this fight is stupid" posts, it was due to the fact that the thread had become a shitfest and Rayn/everyone else were simply shitting up the thread. I was truly exasperated and angry that the thread had gone out of control and we had gone from some very good discussion on Aqua/myself/Rean to Rayn and only Rayn.
After I came back from school, I was still trying to make a decision whether to vote Rayn or not. When I made the post that you quoted, I think I was trying to justify a Rayn lynch to myself. I knew that it was a dumb lynch but I also knew that I could not do anything about it. Rayn had basically lost it and I did not know whether to give him a second chance or not.
When I got back (about 45 minutes from the deadline), I said to myself "Fuck it, I'm not going to be dragged around and be forced to follow thread sentiment". So I voted for a no-lynch. I knew it was useless to try and suggest because Rayn was already bleeding badly and all of the sharks were floating around him. You guys were tunneled way too hard on Rayn and that was a mistake that I tried to correct earlier but gave up out of frustration.
TL;DR: My town read on Rayn + The shitty town atmosphere Rayn was causing= scenario where no one wins and I'm forced to walk a very fine line to take a neutral stance on Rayn's lynch.
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On November 23 2013 10:47 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 10:43 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 23 2013 10:32 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon I'd like to see your thoughts on Jampidampi. No thread presence. He played a very little part in D1 and that doesn't reflect very well on my read on him. I think if there was a scum OFF the Rayn lynch, it is very likely to be him. I'd be down lynching him tomorrow if it comes to that. You mean a scum off the Rayn lynch besides Onegu?
Yeah. I would definitely not throw out the possibility that 2 scum were off the lynch.
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On November 23 2013 10:54 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 10:38 sciberbia wrote:Have some questions for you Cora. 1) Can you explain what you were talking about in this post? How exactly did you think rayn was trying to gain town cred by going on a rampage and martyring himself? On November 22 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really do not like Rayn martyring...tbh the concept of martyring has been beaten to death and I think he's just using it as a ploy to gain town cred.
2) If you think it would have been beneficial to scum to keep rayn alive yesterday EVEN given that he is town, why would you not vote for him yesterday? Surely if you think lynching town!rayn would be bad for scum, then it would be good for town? And if he flipped scum even better, right? I don't see how you reconcile voting for no lynch with claiming that it would have been better for scum to no-lynch yesterday. Ok, to be honest, the Rayn lynch was basically impossible for me to pick a side. On one hand, I really thought Rayn was town. On the other hand, Rayn's play was very anti-town. It is a very narrow playstyle that Rayn's townplay fits into. He can be town but not an asset to town at the same time. That is the reason I'm not attacking Mocsta after Rayn's flip. I think I'm being misrepresented (or perhaps I have misrepresented myself) to say that I was against the Rayn lynch. Rayn's really bad townplay, along with the fact that it was a majority lynch, gave me a choice of either lynching someone who I was very confident was town or having him shit up the thread. I think my thought process would make more sense if I went through it. At the beginning, when I made all of those "OMG this fight is stupid" posts, it was due to the fact that the thread had become a shitfest and Rayn/everyone else were simply shitting up the thread. I was truly exasperated and angry that the thread had gone out of control and we had gone from some very good discussion on Aqua/myself/Rean to Rayn and only Rayn. After I came back from school, I was still trying to make a decision whether to vote Rayn or not. When I made the post that you quoted, I think I was trying to justify a Rayn lynch to myself. I knew that it was a dumb lynch but I also knew that I could not do anything about it. Rayn had basically lost it and I did not know whether to give him a second chance or not. When I got back (about 45 minutes from the deadline), I said to myself "Fuck it, I'm not going to be dragged around and be forced to follow thread sentiment". So I voted for a no-lynch. I knew it was useless to try and suggest a different lynch because Rayn was already bleeding badly and all of the sharks were floating around him. You guys were tunneled way too hard on Rayn and that was a mistake that I tried to correct earlier but gave up out of frustration. TL;DR: My town read on Rayn + The shitty town atmosphere Rayn was causing= scenario where no one wins and I'm forced to walk a very fine line to take a neutral stance on Rayn's lynch.
Edit in bold
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About to eat dinner- giving my final brief reads just in case I die (I probably won't)
Coming into D2, I want to lynch Onegu. His play has been really shady and he needs to be under the gun D2. He does not care about who gets lynched which is a huge scum tell.
I'd also be cool lynching Jampi for similar reasons.
HF blaming Mocsta for the lynch is really scummy seeing as if HF was town and didn't like the lynch, he could just back off it.
I'd be down for lynching one of those three tomorrow.
Sciberia's vote was really shady as it came with no explanation at the buzzer. From what I gathered up, he did not have a scum read on Rayn yet voted for him (let me know sci if I missed a post)
Thrawn needs to have more of a presence in the thread and needs to stop buddying Mocsta and make his own reads.
I'm not interested in lynching anyone outside of these 5 as of now. Of course I will be flexible depending on what happens.
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On November 23 2013 11:43 Holyflare wrote:
I am doctor and I saved thrawn.
What
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On November 23 2013 11:45 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 11:43 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 23 2013 11:43 Holyflare wrote:
I am doctor and I saved thrawn. What Never know when a random vig can take you out and especially as my play has been bad
This isn't 23+1 night...that makes no sense
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On November 23 2013 11:47 Holyflare wrote:
I'm kidding of course i knew it isnt +1 you tit
Maybe I should just policy lynch you for not using your brain.
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On November 23 2013 11:49 Holyflare wrote:
I'm a good shot for a vig, if there is one and he sees, he can save a shot, if scum sees they can kill me over a more towny looking person, it's the only thing i could have done
You're too scummy to be a good vig shot
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When did I attack Mocsta for being scum?
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Scum didn't kill. I'm pretty confident in that fact.
They are very certain that today's lynch will be town, which would fall in line with their decision to lynch Rayn and not have him be lynched today.
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EPT
