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I'm gonna put Cora in the same place as Rean for now. He could be scum and my previous points on him still stand, but there is enough reason to think he is town to not lynch him today. I was expecting scum!Cora to continue tunneling me, but I like that he has diversified his reads a bit and done some prodding and pushing with Onegu and Aquanim, for which I see more town motivation for than scum motivation.
I feel a lot better about lynching Onegu because literally nothing in Onegu's filter makes me not want to lynch him. He's been fairly lurky, and the little posting he does have doesn't look town motivated.
##Unvote
##Vote: Onegu
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 11:05 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 10:24 sciberbia wrote:Of the players that started posting since I went to bed last night, I think Onegu looks by far the worst. His actions look inconsistent with a town mindset. Pay close attention to what his reads are, and how what he chooses to post about is incongruous with his stated reads. + Show Spoiler [first post] +On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.> Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post. Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change. Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy. Anyway rean is really scumm though. Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though. In Onegu's first post, he states pretty significant scumreads on rean and Cora, both of whom have had significant heat on them today. But he spends the majority of his actual words in his post rambling about Mocsta's post count restriction, which is so irrelevant, seeing as he dropped it. Rean and Cora are rather large issues in the thread, and given that Onegu has rather significant scumreads on them, you would expect the majority of his posts to be dedicated to them, but notice how he always seems to instead ramble on about Mocsta. + Show Spoiler [Onegu] +On November 20 2013 21:00 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.
Important things for everyone to know:
As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation
- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.
The others no idea. Really? You dont know me yet? On November 20 2013 22:39 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 22:21 Mocsta wrote:
onegu
your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town
walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to . Umm I think you are scum with rean. Catching scum would be my motive. On November 20 2013 22:44 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 22:40 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 22:39 Onegu wrote:On November 20 2013 22:21 Mocsta wrote:
onegu
your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town
walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to . Umm I think you are scum with rean. Catching scum would be my motive. Well, I guess that answers my question. Is your entire scum read on Mocsta due to that business with his post limit? That and his early post about giving scum reads to like the only three people who posted. Plus his thread control doesnt seem natural, its like he saw he could do it as scum but wasnt planning on doing it but he did it anyway. Ill give more when Im back home. On November 21 2013 01:49 Onegu wrote:
Ok I am home and put my son to sleep so Im getting out my notebook rereading everything and will be back with you shortly, also I basicly agree with everything JJD has said so far minus a small bit of the cora stuff, but the rean and mocsta stuff yeah. But he took back his mospcsta scum read :/. Also I didnt read anyone being a douche to you mocsta so just stop already. On November 21 2013 03:37 Onegu wrote:
@MOCSTA
1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken...
2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post.
3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling.
4 this is fine
5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read?
6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control.
7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip.
8 again not a scumslip
9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful.
10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie?
12 meh ok
12b also fine
13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this?
14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing...
15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean.
16 again why post a completely null post?
17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town
18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since.
19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on
20 admit to being tunneled
21 this is fine
22 tunneled
23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine.
24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd. You can tell a lot about a player's alignment by looking at what they choose to post about. It doesn't make a lot of sense for town!Onegu to be spending all his posts on Mocsta, even pulling up really old (now somewhat irrelevent) posts from Mocsta and breaking them down, when he has stated strong scumreads on Rean and Corazon, both of which he may actually be able to get lynched today. Is he even pushing a Mocsta lynch? No. He's not actively pushing for anything at all. He doesn't seem to think Mocsta is scum anymore than he thinks Rean and Cora are scum, so it looks to me like he just wanted to stay away from the Rean and Cora wagons for one reason or another, and in order to still look like he was doing something complained a lot about Mocsta. It doesn't add up. I think he could be the best lynch today.
Need to reread Aquanim, Cora, and Rean. Not sure who I want to lynch most. In the meantime I'd appreciate some other thoughts on Onegu. Let me put it this way - I see nothing in Onegu's posts which is making me lean town on him. However, I'd like to play devil's advocate for a little while to further understand your point of view. With regards to Onegu's first post this reads like the kind of post where he's just scanned the thread and picked out interesting tidbits without any overall plan to the post. If he's at the mall he's probably posting from his phone, which I imagine makes constructing an organised, coherent post difficult. I think it's understandable that in this post he's spent more time on Mocsta. The fact that he hasn't elaborated on Corazon and Rean in the rest of his filter is a scummy kind of thing to do, I agree. However, a fair proportion of his interactions with the thread are due to Mocsta asking him questions and critiquing Onegu's read on him, which would naturally lead to Onegu spending most of his time talking about Mocsta. (That being said, he doesn't seem to have talked about anyone other than Mocsta really at all after that first post. IF that doesn't change abrubtly when he gets back Onegu starts to look really bad.) @Sciberbia: How plausible do you think these explanations for Onegu's behaviour are? My opinion is that they could explain Onegu's play if he's town, but they're sufficiently unlikely that overall my leaning on Onegu is scummy.
@Aquanim
You make some valid points. I agree with your conclusion. Those explanations are somewhat plausible, but the explanations from a scum perspective are much more plausible. The scum motivation for his posting is more apparent than the town motivation, so the conclusion is that he's more likely scum.
Also, I don't like this Aquanim lynch at all. I'm actually leaning town on him. His reads on Cora, Rean, and Onegu fall right in line with my thinking, which to me at least is obviously coming from a townie place. It also makes me really uncomfortable the way both Rean and Cora jumped on his wagon just as it was getting started.
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On November 21 2013 11:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 11:21 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 11:05 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 10:24 sciberbia wrote:Of the players that started posting since I went to bed last night, I think Onegu looks by far the worst. His actions look inconsistent with a town mindset. Pay close attention to what his reads are, and how what he chooses to post about is incongruous with his stated reads. + Show Spoiler [first post] +On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.> Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post. Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change. Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy. Anyway rean is really scumm though. Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though. In Onegu's first post, he states pretty significant scumreads on rean and Cora, both of whom have had significant heat on them today. But he spends the majority of his actual words in his post rambling about Mocsta's post count restriction, which is so irrelevant, seeing as he dropped it. Rean and Cora are rather large issues in the thread, and given that Onegu has rather significant scumreads on them, you would expect the majority of his posts to be dedicated to them, but notice how he always seems to instead ramble on about Mocsta. + Show Spoiler [Onegu] +On November 20 2013 21:00 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.
Important things for everyone to know:
As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation
- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.
The others no idea. Really? You dont know me yet? On November 20 2013 22:39 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 22:21 Mocsta wrote:
onegu
your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town
walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to . Umm I think you are scum with rean. Catching scum would be my motive. On November 20 2013 22:44 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 22:40 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 22:39 Onegu wrote:On November 20 2013 22:21 Mocsta wrote:
onegu
your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town
walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to . Umm I think you are scum with rean. Catching scum would be my motive. Well, I guess that answers my question. Is your entire scum read on Mocsta due to that business with his post limit? That and his early post about giving scum reads to like the only three people who posted. Plus his thread control doesnt seem natural, its like he saw he could do it as scum but wasnt planning on doing it but he did it anyway. Ill give more when Im back home. On November 21 2013 01:49 Onegu wrote:
Ok I am home and put my son to sleep so Im getting out my notebook rereading everything and will be back with you shortly, also I basicly agree with everything JJD has said so far minus a small bit of the cora stuff, but the rean and mocsta stuff yeah. But he took back his mospcsta scum read :/. Also I didnt read anyone being a douche to you mocsta so just stop already. On November 21 2013 03:37 Onegu wrote:
@MOCSTA
1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken...
2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post.
3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling.
4 this is fine
5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read?
6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control.
7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip.
8 again not a scumslip
9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful.
10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie?
12 meh ok
12b also fine
13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this?
14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing...
15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean.
16 again why post a completely null post?
17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town
18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since.
19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on
20 admit to being tunneled
21 this is fine
22 tunneled
23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine.
24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd. You can tell a lot about a player's alignment by looking at what they choose to post about. It doesn't make a lot of sense for town!Onegu to be spending all his posts on Mocsta, even pulling up really old (now somewhat irrelevent) posts from Mocsta and breaking them down, when he has stated strong scumreads on Rean and Corazon, both of which he may actually be able to get lynched today. Is he even pushing a Mocsta lynch? No. He's not actively pushing for anything at all. He doesn't seem to think Mocsta is scum anymore than he thinks Rean and Cora are scum, so it looks to me like he just wanted to stay away from the Rean and Cora wagons for one reason or another, and in order to still look like he was doing something complained a lot about Mocsta. It doesn't add up. I think he could be the best lynch today.
Need to reread Aquanim, Cora, and Rean. Not sure who I want to lynch most. In the meantime I'd appreciate some other thoughts on Onegu. Let me put it this way - I see nothing in Onegu's posts which is making me lean town on him. However, I'd like to play devil's advocate for a little while to further understand your point of view. With regards to Onegu's first post this reads like the kind of post where he's just scanned the thread and picked out interesting tidbits without any overall plan to the post. If he's at the mall he's probably posting from his phone, which I imagine makes constructing an organised, coherent post difficult. I think it's understandable that in this post he's spent more time on Mocsta. The fact that he hasn't elaborated on Corazon and Rean in the rest of his filter is a scummy kind of thing to do, I agree. However, a fair proportion of his interactions with the thread are due to Mocsta asking him questions and critiquing Onegu's read on him, which would naturally lead to Onegu spending most of his time talking about Mocsta. (That being said, he doesn't seem to have talked about anyone other than Mocsta really at all after that first post. IF that doesn't change abrubtly when he gets back Onegu starts to look really bad.) @Sciberbia: How plausible do you think these explanations for Onegu's behaviour are? My opinion is that they could explain Onegu's play if he's town, but they're sufficiently unlikely that overall my leaning on Onegu is scummy. @Aquanim You make some valid points. I agree with your conclusion. Those explanations are somewhat plausible, but the explanations from a scum perspective are much more plausible. The scum motivation for his posting is more apparent than the town motivation, so the conclusion is that he's more likely scum.
Also, I don't like this Aquanim lynch at all. I'm actually leaning town on him. His reads on Cora, Rean, and Onegu fall right in line with my thinking, which to me at least is obviously coming from a townie place. It also makes me really uncomfortable the way both Rean and Cora jumped on his wagon just as it was getting started. So because Rean and Cora jumped on Aqua lynch you want to lynch Onegu? Quite a weird way of defending someone.
I want to lynch Onegu because he's scummy. I don't want to lynch Aqua because he brings up a lot of original, logical points and I agree with his thought processes. The fact that Rean and Cora (out of which I would be surprised if neither were scum) jumped on the wagon is just an additional reason to think Aqua is town, not the primary reason as you are framing it.
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On November 21 2013 11:21 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote:
...
The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate.
...
Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before. (For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)
Well I don't know anything about XLIII but in this game it just seems like an odd move for scum Rean to attack me where he did. Put yourself in scum Rean's shoes. I wrote a largish case on Cora and voted him, and when prompted mentioned my secondary read of Rean.
At the time I wasn't actively pushing Rean's lynch in the thread, and if Rean is scum wouldn't he want to keep it that way? I would have expected him to ignore me and hope that I spent all my time and energies on Cora instead.
Look at it this way. I made it clear that I had scummy points against Rean, but I hadn't shared them with the thread. Why would he be so eager to have me share these reasons if he were scum? Seems more likely a townie move (if he actually thinks I'm scum).
I think it's a point in his favor.
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On November 21 2013 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sciberbia. I have a serious question to you.
If you were town and being voted 24h into day phase what would you do? scumhunt? try to find scum? That's what i would do.
What does Aquanim do? "Mocsta and sciberbia, ask me anything and i'll answer".
Is this in your mind a legit way to prove your towniness if you think (as Aquanim does) you have answered to every accusation pointed towards you?
@rayn
I completely disagree with you about this. The way that Aquanim has continued to push his reads in spite of being on the back foot is a townie point in his favor. You snipped the bottom 2 lines of a huge post in which Aquanim was scumhunting and concluded that he wasn't scumhunting.
Look at the following posts. It's not like all he's doing is defending himself and reacting to other people's questions.
+ Show Spoiler [Aquanim] +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:So, these votes on me. Jampidampi+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?
It's over there >>>>>
What do you make of it? Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case. ##Vote: AquanimHere's some more evidnce against Aquanim: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though. On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora? On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post. @Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more. This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive. @LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him? Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question. ReanI already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. . And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance. This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: AquanimSome other things I really want to adress: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable. Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls? He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back. At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back? That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean. Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do. CorazonI also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:On Aqua (again): My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information. I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.I still want an answer to this from you: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess. TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out. 1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.3) This guy isn't scum and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".RaynI don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote. If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer. On November 21 2013 09:19 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:08 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 09:00 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 08:51 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 08:22 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread.
What's your case on Rean again? Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because 1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot 2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response My case on Rean is essentially that: 1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful. 2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads 3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still. 4) He has shown little to no original thought 1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book? 2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice. 3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before) 4. See point 1. You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon. Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you. You've done nothing to make me change my mind about you, and while you're still continuing making bullshit arguments to defend yourself I'm trying to find more scum. As far as I can tell, your entire 'pressure' of sciberbia is calling him out for calling you his second-strongest scumread and then not following that up. Which is a pretty piss-poor excuse for scumhunting on your part. This reads more to me like you being concerned that you're listed as a scumread. @Rean: Do you seriously think sciberbia is scum? Why or why not? And calling out LoneMeow for lurking? Please. Calling out lurkers is the easiest game there is. I don't see any actual effort from you here either. On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:41 Mocsta wrote:On November 21 2013 09:35 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So, these votes on me. Jampidampi+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?
It's over there >>>>>
What do you make of it? Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case. ##Vote: AquanimHere's some more evidnce against Aquanim: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though. On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora? On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post. @Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more. This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive. @LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him? Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question. ReanI already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. . And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance. This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: AquanimSome other things I really want to adress: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable. Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls? He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back. At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back? That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean. Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do. CorazonI also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:On Aqua (again): My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information. I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.I still want an answer to this from you: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess. TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out. 1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". RaynI don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote. If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer. Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you. Help me out please: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
*snip*
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense) B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind. C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:<To Corazon> I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently. + Show Spoiler [justification] +Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.
I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?
What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?
My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.
Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.
Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me? Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best. I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C. The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. OK, I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep  Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read. (1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs) (2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game (3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else? + please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu. To be honest I'm now more confident in Rean scum than Corazon. Before I went to sleep, pretty much the sum total of Corazon's play was some half-assed push on sciberbia without a vote, which I considered scummy. I'm having some trouble reconciling Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game. with Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
@sciberia
Put your vote where your mouth is. but that is the kind of contradiction which I could believe a townie would make. Since then, however, Corazon's posting has improved somewhat - he's talking about a larger variety of things in the thread and looks more like he's trying to be productive and useful. I'm still not convinced since a fair bit of his volume is devoted to defending his statements rather than doing anything proactive, but that's understandable given how much he's being asked to defend himself. I don't see anything which convinces me as to his alignment either way. His apparent conviction that I'm scum is a pretty safe view to hold given the current state of the thread. Again, could just be a townie who agrees with other townies, or he could be scum hiding on the obvious wagon. Hard to tell. Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game. + Show Spoiler +And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you. As for Rean, since I put my vote on him his contributions have been: 1) jumping on my wagon, which he was pretty much obliged to 2) making some shitty point against sciberbia and then defending it against all and sundry - the fact that this point is based around sciberbia having a scum read on Rean is a black mark in my opinion, attacking someone for giving them a scumread is a typical scum move 3) calling out LoneMeow lurking, which as I've said is really, really easy for scum to do Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me. They're both coming after me with a fair dose of confirmation-bias/deliberate-obtuseness, so there's that too. As regards the other two: JarJarDrinks- Original case on Mocsta was not really airtight but not having been there at the time I can understand his argument, even if I don't agree with it. - Overall he's putting his viewpoint into the thread and defending it effectively when queried. - He's seeking clarification from Corazon about Cora's original argument against sciberbia, which was indeed unclear. i.e. trying to understand what's going on in the game, when he could have just ignored it and carried on. Major town points. Conclusion: Likely town. Onegu- First post is clearly based on a quick scan of the thread rather than in-depth analysis. I don't know that I'd take it too seriously. - Suspicion of Mocsta's "thread captaining" is weird, it's not an argument I'd have made and I don't find it convincing. Plenty of townies make arguments I don't find convincing though, so meh. - Put a lot of work into replying to Mocsta's wallpost, but given how useless that was I don't give it town points. - Other than that, not a whole lot of effort. Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.
At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you. If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer. I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish. At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about? On November 21 2013 11:21 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote:
...
The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate.
...
Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before. (For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)
Read the above quotes. Does it really look like Aquanim has stopped pushing his reads?
|
On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.
So. Damn. wishy-washy. Flips his stance 3 times over 2 lines. And as Aquanim points out (in another good post), why is Rean complaining about Onegu being an 'easy lynch target' if his posting is 'certainly scummy'? Honestly I think there's a good chance they are both scum.
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+ Show Spoiler [rayn] +On November 21 2013 12:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 11:46 sciberbia wrote:On November 21 2013 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sciberbia. I have a serious question to you.
If you were town and being voted 24h into day phase what would you do? scumhunt? try to find scum? That's what i would do.
What does Aquanim do? "Mocsta and sciberbia, ask me anything and i'll answer".
Is this in your mind a legit way to prove your towniness if you think (as Aquanim does) you have answered to every accusation pointed towards you? @rayn I completely disagree with you about this. The way that Aquanim has continued to push his reads in spite of being on the back foot is a townie point in his favor. You snipped the bottom 2 lines of a huge post in which Aquanim was scumhunting and concluded that he wasn't scumhunting. Look at the following posts. It's not like all he's doing is defending himself and reacting to other people's questions. + Show Spoiler [Aquanim] +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:So, these votes on me. Jampidampi+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?
It's over there >>>>>
What do you make of it? Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case. ##Vote: AquanimHere's some more evidnce against Aquanim: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though. On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora? On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post. @Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more. This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive. @LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him? Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question. ReanI already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. . And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance. This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: AquanimSome other things I really want to adress: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable. Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls? He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back. At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back? That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean. Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do. CorazonI also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:On Aqua (again): My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information. I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.I still want an answer to this from you: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess. TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out. 1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.3) This guy isn't scum and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".RaynI don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote. If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer. On November 21 2013 09:19 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:08 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 09:00 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 08:51 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 08:22 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread.
What's your case on Rean again? Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because 1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot 2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response My case on Rean is essentially that: 1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful. 2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads 3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still. 4) He has shown little to no original thought 1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book? 2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice. 3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before) 4. See point 1. You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon. Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you. You've done nothing to make me change my mind about you, and while you're still continuing making bullshit arguments to defend yourself I'm trying to find more scum. As far as I can tell, your entire 'pressure' of sciberbia is calling him out for calling you his second-strongest scumread and then not following that up. Which is a pretty piss-poor excuse for scumhunting on your part. This reads more to me like you being concerned that you're listed as a scumread. @Rean: Do you seriously think sciberbia is scum? Why or why not? And calling out LoneMeow for lurking? Please. Calling out lurkers is the easiest game there is. I don't see any actual effort from you here either. On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:41 Mocsta wrote:On November 21 2013 09:35 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So, these votes on me. Jampidampi+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?
It's over there >>>>>
What do you make of it? Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case. ##Vote: AquanimHere's some more evidnce against Aquanim: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though. On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora? On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post. @Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more. This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive. @LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him? Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question. ReanI already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. . And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance. This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: AquanimSome other things I really want to adress: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable. Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls? He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back. At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back? That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean. Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do. CorazonI also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:On Aqua (again): My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information. I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.I still want an answer to this from you: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess. TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out. 1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". RaynI don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote. If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer. Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you. Help me out please: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
*snip*
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense) B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind. C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:<To Corazon> I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently. + Show Spoiler [justification] +Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.
I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?
What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?
My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.
Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.
Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me? Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best. I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C. The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. OK, I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read. (1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs) (2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game (3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else? + please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu. To be honest I'm now more confident in Rean scum than Corazon. Before I went to sleep, pretty much the sum total of Corazon's play was some half-assed push on sciberbia without a vote, which I considered scummy. I'm having some trouble reconciling Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game. with Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
@sciberia
Put your vote where your mouth is. but that is the kind of contradiction which I could believe a townie would make. Since then, however, Corazon's posting has improved somewhat - he's talking about a larger variety of things in the thread and looks more like he's trying to be productive and useful. I'm still not convinced since a fair bit of his volume is devoted to defending his statements rather than doing anything proactive, but that's understandable given how much he's being asked to defend himself. I don't see anything which convinces me as to his alignment either way. His apparent conviction that I'm scum is a pretty safe view to hold given the current state of the thread. Again, could just be a townie who agrees with other townies, or he could be scum hiding on the obvious wagon. Hard to tell. Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game. + Show Spoiler +And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you. As for Rean, since I put my vote on him his contributions have been: 1) jumping on my wagon, which he was pretty much obliged to 2) making some shitty point against sciberbia and then defending it against all and sundry - the fact that this point is based around sciberbia having a scum read on Rean is a black mark in my opinion, attacking someone for giving them a scumread is a typical scum move 3) calling out LoneMeow lurking, which as I've said is really, really easy for scum to do Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me. They're both coming after me with a fair dose of confirmation-bias/deliberate-obtuseness, so there's that too. As regards the other two: JarJarDrinks- Original case on Mocsta was not really airtight but not having been there at the time I can understand his argument, even if I don't agree with it. - Overall he's putting his viewpoint into the thread and defending it effectively when queried. - He's seeking clarification from Corazon about Cora's original argument against sciberbia, which was indeed unclear. i.e. trying to understand what's going on in the game, when he could have just ignored it and carried on. Major town points. Conclusion: Likely town. Onegu- First post is clearly based on a quick scan of the thread rather than in-depth analysis. I don't know that I'd take it too seriously. - Suspicion of Mocsta's "thread captaining" is weird, it's not an argument I'd have made and I don't find it convincing. Plenty of townies make arguments I don't find convincing though, so meh. - Put a lot of work into replying to Mocsta's wallpost, but given how useless that was I don't give it town points. - Other than that, not a whole lot of effort. Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.
At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you. If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer. I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish. At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about? On November 21 2013 11:21 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote:
...
The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate.
...
Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before. (For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.) Read the above quotes. Does it really look like Aquanim has stopped pushing his reads? Okay let's talk about this. First quote - He sums up where he is and says why people voted for him (???). Second quote - Repeats my question (which has been answered) to Rean. Calls him out for calling out lurkers (nothing alignment indicative). Asks if Rean thinks scib is still scummy. Third quote - null read on Cora, leaning scum on Rean (ofc), townread on JJD, weird read on Onegu. Then the "please tell me what to say" bullshit Fourth quote - justifying his scumread with what someone else did in some other game. So, in conclusion, he gives out one townread and one scumread, two null reads. Repeats said arguments, and talks bullshit or gives bad reasons for someone to be scum. Where does he actually scumhunt? Where does he attempt to find out more on anyone? His vote is on a guy he is "leaning scum on", to me that reads it's not even a strong scumread. So yes, he is pushing his read, but for bad reasons.
@rayn
So he is pushing his reads. You just don't like them. Now look at Onegu's filter. He has pretty similar reads (rean and cora), but doesn't push them at all. If exactly one of the two is scum which do you think it is? I feel pretty strongly that it would be Onegu.
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@Mocsta
Scum agenda: lynch ANYONE but me (or my scumbuddies)
Town agenda: pinpoint a scum and lynch him
The easiest way to tell which agenda aquanim is pursuing is by looking at how interested he is in who exactly gets lynched other than him. Due to his posts on Cora, Rean, and Onegu, it looks to me like it is interested in who precisely his counterwagon is, which is indicative of a town mindset.
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On November 21 2013 12:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 12:24 sciberbia wrote:
@Mocsta
Scum agenda: lynch ANYONE but me (or my scumbuddies)
Town agenda: pinpoint a scum and lynch him
The easiest way to tell which agenda aquanim is pursuing is by looking at how interested he is in who exactly gets lynched other than him. Due to his posts on Cora, Rean, and Onegu, it looks to me like it is interested in who precisely his counterwagon is, which is indicative of a town mindset. Now i would not say that. Look again into his conclusions.
Not sure what you're trying to suggest. His conclusion seems to be Rean > Onegu > Cora > others. I don't see anything terribly suspicious about those conclusions. What do you expect him to do? Come up with town reads on all the other lynch candidates? They are lynch candidates for a reason. It only makes sense that he would find them all scummy to some degree. The point is that he has at least looked into them and has clear preferences among them.
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Getting food. Be back in a bit.
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+ Show Spoiler [rayn] +On November 21 2013 12:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sciberbia could you share some insight in why are you so eager to defend Aquanim and why do you think he can't defend himself? In my opinion you should be trying to convince us to lynch Onegu as he seems to be your top lynch target. Instead of doing that you defend aqua - defend aqua - point out Rean's bad post - defend aqua.
The dude can defend himself if he is town, it's not your job. Your job is - if you are town - to tell us why lynching Onegu is the right way to go in case you think he is the best lynch.
atm you are doing anything else but that. Kinda makes me wonder why?
@Rayn
Until Onegu comes back to the thread there isn't anything else to say about him. Pretty much everyone, except Bereft, agrees with me that he is scummy. So my only recourse in my attempt to get Onegu lynched is to try to convince you that Aquanim is not scummy.
@Bereft
I see where you are coming from with the read on Onegu but I disagree with your conclusion. Onegu fooled me as scum in my previous game with him (Desert Mini) due to the same calm "don't give a fuck what you guys think -- not afraid to take heat" air about him. He's definitely capable of doing that as scum.
I agree with what Cora said above. His lack of caring about the lynch is defintely more of a scumtell than a towntell.
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@Mocsta
As I already mentioned Onegu does not play scum scared. Read his Desert Mini filter if you must. If I recall correctly he states there is a good chance hapa/marv are scum on day 1, and suggests they be analyzed.
Rean lynch is probably also OK. I'll consolidate on Rean if it comes down to him and Aquanim.
And I see you've written another case on me. Guess I'll respond to that next
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 15:03 Mocsta wrote:
- Picking on Corazon early game, whilst ignoring you and I for similar toned posts
He phrases it as a conversation starter, but its pretty clear it is shit-stirring.
This is the most ridiculous thing. How hard is it to believe that of the posts so far I thought Cora's was the scummiest? Are you trying to argue your's was scummier? Your's was completely unalazyable because it was the first post of the thread and if you are scum you had 2 hours to think about what to post there so it's completely wifom. As I already said, Bereft's was clearly more attention-grabby. I can't understand how you see it as shit stirring.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 15:03 Mocsta wrote:
- Scibs also states he hates early game trolling, yet is contributing to a negative atmosphere.
THink about this: he stated Corazon was scum off what he defined later as 99% null, 1% scummy. Its clearly an over reaction and all it does is force people to point fingers at each other ==> atmosphere scum love.
What the fuck are you talking about? I said Cora was scummiest so far. Not that he was scum. There is a huge difference.
How you think I'm creating a scum-favored atmosphere with my posting is beyond me. Either you're scum or you're see ghosts that aren't there.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 15:03 Mocsta wrote:
- His case on Corazon is terrible.
#2 is acceptable because a majority misread corazon intentions
#1 is terrible because scibs is a hypocrite for singling out corazon but further, he is calling corazon scummy for being bad, there is nothing about scum motive in this point
#3 - is just a weak point
Overall this case is calling corazon a bad townie, and relies on the reader to assume the points are scummy.
This is a sign of a poor/half-assed case.. yet. scibs said i stole his thunder when i said corazon was scummy.
His actions are not congruent with filter.
Err before you said points 1 and 3 were good and 2 was terrible...
Regarding point 1, I'm not a hypocrite. And there is scum motivation as I outlined. To discredit me specifically so scum!Cora doesn't come under pressure.
Regarding point 3, it's not weak at all. Cora originally said you can't make reads off the first page. And he supposedly had a genuine scum read on me as he was writing that (?). Does that make sense from a town perspective? No it doesn't. A more likely explanation is that he didn't have any reads at all (because scum) and that's why he had no problem writing "you can't make reads on the first page".
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 15:03 Mocsta wrote:
- Scibs is suddenly suspicous of Rean, but asks such a baseless question that is not alignment-indicative. Again, this is not congruent with being a genuine scum read
Not sure what you're talking about. I wasn't 'suddenly' suspicious of him. I was suspicious of him since the start of the game. I asked questions to probe for information, which helped me develop my scum read. You're just asserting without any evidence that the questions were baseless and non alignment-indicative and you are in fact wrong.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 15:03 Mocsta wrote:
- Scibs has a really odd timed delurked to chat with jampidampi. In this convo he avoids discussing the interplay between rean/aqua - which makes ZERO sense if rean was his 2nd scum read. This is a *very* bad point
It was like 4 in the morning and as I was nodding off to sleep I saw jampi enter the thread. As Cora was my strongest read I wanted his thoughts. If I had infinite time I would have partaken in discussion with Rean and Cora but unfortunately I do not. You're just looking at my whole filter with extreme bias, malicious or not, and coming up with the worst possible explanation for everything I do, even if there's no evidence for it.
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this post.
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On November 21 2013 15:27 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 15:23 sciberbia wrote:
@Mocsta
As I already mentioned Onegu does not play scum scared. Read his Desert Mini filter if you must. If I recall correctly he states there is a good chance hapa/marv are scum on day 1, and suggests they be analyzed.
Rean lynch is probably also OK. I'll consolidate on Rean if it comes down to him and Aquanim.
And I see you've written another case on me. Guess I'll respond to that next I am aware of this, but I don't find it applicable?
It's applicable because your sole reason for your town-read on Onegu is that it would be "suicide" for him to call you and thrawn scum, assuming that he is scum and you are both town.
Given that you know he isn't scared of anyone as scum, doesn't that invalidate your reason for thinking he can't be scum? Please explain your thought process more.
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On November 21 2013 15:44 Mocsta wrote:
My thoughts are that you are overly defensive in this retort.
I can easily add quotes to support my points. In the end I provided those points because bereft asked me for them. My vote today is on rean.
I'm quite content with you for a day2 lynch
err no you can't easily add quotes to support your points. Saying you can doesn't make it true. But whatever -- I'm not interested in lynching you today so we can revisit this tomorrow I guess.
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I don't want to lynch rayn at all. Anyone that has played with rayn before should know he does batshit crazy stuff, tunnels people, and has ridiculous convinction in his reads. He normally gets his shit together by D2 or D3 and if he's still doing this at that time then I'd lynch him without blinking an eye. But nothing I've seen from him this game isn't possible from town rayn, and in fact there is good reason to believe he's town.
I'm not fully caught up, but just look at the thread atmosphere when rayn 'martyrs' himself and starts causing a ruckus. The majority of the votes were on Rean and Aquanim, and rayn wasn't even in the conversation of lynch candidates.
Rayn's not a noob. He doesn't play to lose. He had to know that what he was saying was going to be unpopular. It doesn't make any sense as scum for him to make a bunch of bold assertions, vote himself, and generally just draw negative attention. The only way this makes ANY sense at all is if Rean is also scum, but even then it wouldn't help for rayn to get himself lynched. I don't really see it.
Onegu is still the best lynch.. Onegu's only contribution since last night is a giant readdddz post where he votes Mocsta, and seems to content to be ignored, and hasn't posted since.
Onegu does not seem to care about who gets lynched, and he's avoided discussing it with the town.
@everyone in the thread right now
explain the scum motivation for rayn throwing a bunch of shit and even voting himself just as it looked like Rean was going to be lynched. Also, explain ANYTHING you have seen in Onegu's play that makes you think he is town.
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There is 2 hours until deadline Moc. I will vote rayn only to avoid a no-lynch. Respond to my last post.
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Also I think Cora is pretty scummy. Reading his filter the feeling I get is that he KNOWS rayn is not scum,but acts as though his "hand was forced" into voting him even though there's plenty of time into the lynch and there are better candidates. He just says things like "rayn's behavior is not acceptable". And the actual scummy points he does raise against rayn are total BS.
On November 22 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really do not like Rayn martyring...tbh the concept of martyring has been beaten to death and I think he's just using it as a ploy to gain town cred.
This is trying to apply a scumtell to a situation where it doesn't apply at all. If you have 8 votes on you then maybe martyrying is a scumtell, but rayn hardly had any pressure on him when he started trampling through the thread and voting himself. Read rayn's filter from the last 12 hours and tell me he has been trying to "gain town cred". He has been doing the complete opposite by pissing everybody off. Cora is reallly reaching hard here to justify his vote.
I'd be happy with a Cora lynch if anybody prefers him to Onegu.
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On November 22 2013 10:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also do not EVER let people push lynches on people who defended me.
Like Cora, Onegu, scib.
That's bullshit. They are right, they know what they are talking about.
NEVER LET MOCSTA LYNCH THOSE PPL BASED ON "YOU KNEW RAYN WAS TOWN" WHICH HE IS GONNA TRY!
You know Cora's vote is on you right now, right?
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On November 22 2013 10:00 Aquanim wrote:
His reads are changing from post to post, there's no consistency to them at all, let alone a single unified tunnel-visioned argument. And if his reads are changing from one post to the next, I can't see how you can claim he has ridiculous conviction in this game, even if he claims he does.
On November 22 2013 10:01 Bereft wrote:
@scib, i will agree that my stance on onegu has changed since yesterday and he's been completely useless. but i don't think he's a better lynch than rayn at the moment. i can't find any aspect of rayn's posting rational as a townie, and i've tried. i don't care if shit flinging is his usual style of playing. the bottom line is that there is no townie SENSE or LOGIC behind any of his shit flinging in this case. it does not make any sense for him to behave like this.
@Aquanim, Bereft
You could apply these descriptions of his play even more accurately to past games where he was town.
Here are some quotes from rayn's filter on D1 of ego mini mafia where he is town. Notice that he somehow has ridiculous conviction in his reads, even though they are changing almost every half hour. And oftentimes he didn't even give a reason.
+ Show Spoiler [rayn] +On April 05 2013 09:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sciberbia wants to claim or fakeclaim a miller. ggyo. ::E
Vote: Sciberbia On April 05 2013 09:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
kill WoS? better? On April 05 2013 09:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
oh fuck, just kill sciberbia.
and then WoS. GG. On April 05 2013 09:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote: sciberbia
##Vote: WaveOfShadow On April 05 2013 10:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: iamperfection On April 05 2013 10:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Can we kill WoS? On April 05 2013 10:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 10:42 WaveofShadow wrote:
Hey Axle, if you're still around, what do you make of rayn flitting about the thread thus far?
I liken him unto a chicken without a head, spraying blood and entrails wherever his dying nervous system directs him. Personally I am loathe to pay him any more mind than this but it would be nice to get a fresh opinion on the matter before partaking of other more worldly pursuits. Read this shit.. :E On April 05 2013 10:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote: iamperfection
##Vote: Wave Of Shadow
guaranteed scum D1. On April 05 2013 11:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote: Wave Of Shadow
##Vote: AxleGreaser
Okay this is the best lynch. Look at his lat post rofl. On April 05 2013 11:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sry. iwas kinda fucked up.
##Unvote: AxleGreaser
##Vote: Wave of Shadow On April 06 2013 10:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: sciberbia On April 06 2013 11:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yeah sciberia is mafia, can we just kill him? On April 07 2013 03:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I'm starting to think WoS is actually town.. Cna we lynch sci? On April 07 2013 08:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay, i want to kill Ace...
Here's a link to the full filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&user=raynpelikoneet
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4t8oM40)
