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Newbie Mini Mafia L

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 23 2013 13:55 GMT
#24
/in
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 30 2013 17:12 GMT
#227
Sorry bout not posting yet, was out late last night drinking with a friend i don't see very often, will be here all the time now till the game ends. gonna catch up reading all the posts while I eat my lunch

Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 30 2013 17:30 GMT
#237
On October 31 2013 02:27 July617 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 02:26 Vanesco wrote:
WHAT??? I am only saying that I am new to TL and cannot post a link back to the post which I am mentioning for convenience sake. But I am not new to the game of mafia and to me it seems like your just grasping for anything that has just happened.


I don't need to grasp when you're doing the digging yourself .



I don't understand how he is digging a hole for himself when all he said he didn't know how to post a link to the post, was no reminder how he is new to mafia, just didn't know how the forum works, You look bad to me going after him for such a stupid reason
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 30 2013 17:31 GMT
#238
Also I don't see Cake as scum yet, his first couple posts seemed a little suspicous but I think was just some new player overreaction to pressure that early, after he calmed down his posts seemed fine to me.
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 30 2013 17:36 GMT
#240
Not sure Nyx is mafia, he did the same exact thing last game, hardly posted here and never gave good reasons on why he thought people were scum/voting for people. I want to see him post more to see if anything is different but so far seems like standard Nyx. The point Cake has though about posting on the LoL forums is valid though.
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 05:23 GMT
#338
My reads so far:

Cakeman- Still agree with what I said earlier, just overreacted a lil to the early pressure to him, since then his posts seem fine to me. Possibly can be scum but I am 60/40 on him in favor of him being town, watching him closely.

Jonnylaw - I think he is town so far, good at pressuring people and making them talk


July- Liking him as scum but haven't really seen enough for anything definite.


Storr- Maybe scum, almost all his posts are bout how the game should be played and player activity/rl excuses which is important but doesn't really contribute much to the game


E00e- 2 little posts for me to form a good opinion

Balla- Town, lots of posts with good questions and reads, nothing standing out in to me that says he is scum

OWB- Not sure, think he is town. Talked a lot about meta stuff at the start but when someone pointed him out about it then started posting good stuff.

Van- Town, been putting pressure on a lot of people for good reasons and brings up good points.

Poofter- Scum from what I've seen so far. Pretty much all the reasons Jonny has given. His posts haven't had substance to them besides when he jumped on Cake

Odin- Town from what I can tell, didn't like how he was aggro at the start but was prob just rl stress. Now that he is explaining stuff looks town to me. Don't agree with his Cake read though


Feel free to ask me any questions will be around for a couple more hours till I have to go to sleep.










Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 05:39 GMT
#349
On October 31 2013 14:30 Obzy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 14:23 Vonthin wrote:
Feel free to ask me any questions will be around for a couple more hours till I have to go to sleep.

Sure. Given that every read in your post is a sheep, please explain why we shouldn't lynch you instead. Also, please put your vote on somebody, since you seem to afk for such long periods of time that you might otherwise miss the deadline.



I honestly don't know what to say to prevent you from lynching me, everything that I think is scummy about someone has been said so far and I felt I had to post something or else I would be lynched for inactivity anyways. I will put my vote on to someone before I leave my computer tonight in hope I can get better reads on someone than I have now
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 05:41 GMT
#351
On October 31 2013 14:37 Balla24 wrote:
Vonthin, i HATE those posts. I'd like you to address you top 2 scum reads with more detailed reasoning..

alright give me a lil, will start a a detailed write up right now on who my top 2 reads are
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 06:40 GMT
#368
@Odin

With the redirect thing that started with the Storr comment I think was just a quick overreaction from the early pressure he didn't expect and then when people questioned him about it afterwards I think he answered fine and handled the pressure great after that.


@balla
E00e is my top scum read at this point. His first post he talks about how he thinks Jonnys pressure seems wrong and doesn't say way, and I thought he was raising good questions to pressure people at that point. Then he hops on the cake is scum wagon and doesn't say why. After that he didn't say much besides he thought Julys and Jonnys posts are inconsistent which I don't understand and when asked to explain the post he doesn't really give good reasons why they are inconsistent. For Jonny he says he didn't form a plan after to catch mafia after he said we should make one. He didn't tell us a plan but after that post about making a plan he put a lot of pressure onpeople by asking questions which what townies should be doing. A towns job isn't to stay alive, its to find the mafia even if it means their own death, to ask the questions like who isn't like the others so the team can win. His reason for July for being inconsistent was that he didn't make on point posts when he said he was going to. I would agree with that statement if it was made a little bit later but at the time he posted that July made 2 posts which I thought were on point(not a good point though) and after that he didn't really post anything.

Second scum read is July. July looks suspicious since he hasn't posted a lot like myself and in the few posts he has had he called out Nyx's poor first post which Nyx later explained a lot better then jumps on Balla for saying his reasoning for disliking Nyx's post is not enough. The thing that looks really scummy for me is he jumps on Vanesco saying he was new and that it wasn't helping his case when all Van was saying he was just new to the TL forum format and didn't know how to link a post. I don't know how July misinterpreted that when Van was clear about what he was talking about. After Van told him what he meant July was like you are just digging a hole for himself which he wasn't imo. After that he says the pointless banter between him and vanesco won't continue since he doesn't want to be a bad town and have useless posts but he was the one who started the banter in the first place.When Balla points that out he plays the i am new/bad at this game but words it differently by saying he doesn't grasp what points people are trying to make across, I find that funny because the whole reason the Vanesco/July thing started was July telling Van that being new wasn't a valid excuse

Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 06:43 GMT
#369
##Vote E00e

voting for him now cause he is one of my main 2 scum reads as I posted above and voting for him over July since we need majority to lynch and E00e currently has more votes than July currently.

Also first day phase ends at 8 pm eastern right or am I reading this countdown wrong
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 06:44 GMT
#370
##Vote E00e

Forgot to bold.
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 09:40 GMT
#389
Going to sleep/have some stuff to do when I wake up, will be back at 5 pm edt at the latest so I will have plenty of time post reads and change my vote if needed. Might be back before 5 2, depends on how fast I can finish my errands
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 20:07 GMT
#492
I am back

##unvote


Don't think E00e is the best vote anymore from what I've read since I've gotten back, still gotta finish reading then I will vote again
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 21:36 GMT
#531
E00e still looks somewhat scummy to me, def not enough to warrant any lynching but gonna keep a close eye on him.

I'm honestly not sure about Odin, he played similar to how he did last game but a lot more angry, would throw in insults to people for no reason like when he was didn't like when Balla asked him to get to his reads already and stopped posting useless crap and he replied with

I'm pretty sure your town but you can humor me anyway.
It will only help me confirm my read on you.
Anyway..,I can't have hunches?
Ye, ok.
Excuse me for having to do more than your little gig at pappa johns requires.


I just don't see this post nescesarry when all Balla was asking was to get to his reads already, especially the insult about the papa johns.

He also has a couple more fluff posts like this one

On October 31 2013 14:54 OdinOfPergo wrote:
ROFL LOL I DIED ON THE FLOOR HAHHAHAHAHAHA OMG.
OK guys soirry. Seriously.
But just look at this.
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2013 01:07 StorrZerg wrote:
anyone here thinkg sc2 is better than bw?

Fucking mod kill this traitor on principle.
OKOKOK Sorry, expect to see this same quote when I post my case on him.
But I couldn't let this slide ROFL


and even talks about this fluff post again in his last post before he goes to sleep. Rest of his posts seem alright since they are all reads, but I don't really agree with them like how he thinks Cake and Jonny are scummy. Want to see what he posts when he gets back



##Vote July


My opinion on July has gotten even worse since last night. Don't agree with that we shouldn't lynch anyone. Lynch on Poofter was bad just cause he said he was inactive then switched to he doesn't want to get anyone lynched, doesn't give any reads. Completely useless


Also that Mat was the worst, lost my wall of text
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 22:26 GMT
#563
I really want to hear from Odin before we lynch July, he said he might be back before the deadline right?
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
October 31 2013 22:32 GMT
#566
@balla
I mainly want to see what his current reads are and if he still thinks Cake is scum and will keep his vote on him. Also responses to the people who think he is scummy and voted for him
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 01 2013 23:35 GMT
#760
Sorry bout this wall of text.

On November 02 2013 04:52 onlywonderboy wrote:
I know Balla just said to stay focused, but I want to make sure we don't let Vonthin slide under the radar here. We have plenty of time before the next lynch so we can focus really heavily after Day 2 starts

In regards to Vonith, he has been mentioned a few times but never really put forward as a scum candidate. I realize I haven't been the most active poster, but Vonthin has managed even less content and less pro town information. He pushed e00 when he was the main lunch target but then suddenly changed his mind and decides he "wasn't the best target." This was right before the vote train on July had started on July. I realize Vonith had mentioned July as a scum candidate, but his read didn't say anything else that hadn't been said already. All that means is that he was comfortable joining the July train. Then he said he wasn't to hear from Odin before the July lunch through. Seems like he would have been totally okay jumping on that train as well had it gotten going.

So Vonith has sheeped on almost every read and hasn't contributed any original content. Seems pretty scummy to me.


I wanted to hear from Odin before we lynched July because his posts seemed really off and over aggro to me like I said compared to his play last game. If his posts were more of the same as he posted already I would think he could possibly be scum, didn't want to lynch him on those posts alone. His posts since he got back have been a lot better imo and seemed like like his town play from last game so I don't think he is currently scum.

I always thought July was suspicious even before the lynch train was happening, he just wasn't playing like he was last game plus some of the reasons I posted already about him. I was comfortable joining the July train since I felt we needed to lynch someone especially if there is a chance we think that person is scum which I thought July was.

I don't really know how not to sheep on reads if all the people I think are scum have already been mentioned for those reasons. Should I just post less than I already am If the reasons I think someone are scum have already been said?



@Ballas concerns about me


I'll be honest, I've been extremely lazy playing this game if you couldn't tell by my post count and posts, While I have had the time to play this game I keep getting side tracked by playing other games with friends and going out to bars to watch the world series. I already decided I am gonna take a break from mafia no matter the outcome of this game since I never put enough time into it since I have been failing to do my job as tow. I've been playing town by just trying to survive and just respond to accusations to me and not doing towns actual job of hunting down scum even if it means their own life.

The first post you referred too that you called me out on to get better reads was half assed by me, when you called me out on it I went and reread filters and got a better read on E00e and thought he was looked scummy to me with that small sample size of posts. After I got back hours later I unvoted him since I think he responded OK to mine and Vans accusations to him, I still think there is a chance of him being scum at that point but not as much as July, but yeah I did a bad job of not saying why I was unvoting E00e as I wanted to get around to my current reads where I talked about July and Odin. I never actually actually said Odin was scummy, I said I was unsure since he was playing weird at the time I made that post and whats why I wanted to hear more from him. Not gonna make any good excuses for not posting before the vote happened, I just was playing Hearthstone since I just got a inv to it and sorta forgot about this game. Even if I was looking at the thread I don't know what I would post since I thought July was scum.


Not gonna post indepth reads till after Night actions since a lot can change plus don't want to make this post even longer

1.Poofter-Scummy, haven't looked at his filter since the night started to see if he posted anything to change my opinion
2. Balla- Town Still asking good questions to look for mafia
3. OWB - Still unsure like I said in my first post with reads
4.Nyx- Could be town, posting exactly the same as last game where he was town but with more detail and reasoning which is better
5. Van- town
6.e00e - scum
7. Stor- sort of in the same boat with him as I am with OWB, not really sure
8. Jonny - Not sure again, I liked his posts till night phase, then he started asking stupid questions like the who would you lynch tomorrow if you had 7 votes question
9.Now that he isn't drunk/stressed out from work playing exactly how he did last game which I thought was solid town.
10. Maybe scum, not that strong of an opinion on him currently
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 00:35 GMT
#775
Yeah I think he was playing a good town but just wasn't posting as much as Balla who is also playing a great town, I think that was more the reason than blue hunting though both are good reasons for the kill, some of the people he thought were scum looking at his filter are Cake/Jonny are his big reads in his past couple posts, then Nyx for a paragraph in his large Jonny post and then E00e before he started to focus on Jonny/Cake so I am gonna read up on them now
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 01:39 GMT
#778
I def think Jonny is scum after reading his filter after the Vanesco murder



Everything Van said in this post about him is spot on imo http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&currentpage=36#708

While sounds sheepish of me, I honestly can't add much to that argument since Van made such a good case against him. Since that post that Van made Jonny only made one post

On November 02 2013 06:33 JonnyLaw wrote:
Hey guys, I don't have a lot of time right now but I'll be off work soon. I read through the posts briefly since last night.

Whoever said I was frustrated last night by the July lynch was correct. July's play was transparent and just plain bad. He said whatever he wanted when pressured and his best defense was "fuck off I'm town." Ehh...he didn't come off as stupid so that defense wasn't in line with him being scum. Oh well, what's done is done.

When I get home I'll check the filters again. Particularly intrigued to see when and how people placed their votes. No one has addressed this issue and it's really the best reads we can get from that lynch.

We need look at who joined the July lynch party and when. Examine these facts in relationship to their other posts and we can start to form a picture of the web that got July lynched and we can come up with a better lynch target for day2. If it happens to be me that you decide on after actual fact analysis, so be it. I'll look for myself soon and see what I can come up with here.

In regards to cakeman. I don't know if he's scum or town but since the day 1 pressure that came from a couple shitty posts he's been improving his play and acts as though he's genuinely trying to catch scum. I'll check that filter along with the rest.



In this post he says he was frustrated with the July lynch, if he was frustrated why vote for him? When he started on Julys defense it was when July had 6 votes and it looked like he was going to get the 7th we needed to lynch him any second, I think it would be a good mafia strat to say some guy is innocent when he knows that guy is gonna die then he gets cred later saying he tried to say he was town, if he really thought July was town wouldn't he try to make a good case against someone else and then vote for that person instead of making a half assed case against Odin and then voting for July anyways? Then like Van pointed out he defends and talks about Cakeman again.
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 01:42 GMT
#780
Only thing preventing me from voting for him is if he was mafia why kill the person who was putting the most heat on him? Wouldn't that make him even more suspicious then he already was before Van died?
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 01:44 GMT
#781
@Storr

yeah I can go into more detail on E00e scummy and Balla town soon
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 02:20 GMT
#791
On November 02 2013 11:03 JonnyLaw wrote:
@Vonthin What the fuck are you talking about? I said july was a bad lynch when he had 3 votes and odin had ONE. I said that the entirety of the lynching process. I said he was maybe the third best option we had at one point and changed my mind from even that before he was lynched.

@obzy You didn't like my comment that Odin was our best lynch even if he was town because he doesn't contribute. There's a 25% chance we lynch scum day 1. On july I felt it was closer to 10% chance and on Odin closer to 50%. July's play made no sense from a mafia perspective. I don't know what you're missing here.

@Van's post. His analysis is terrible. If you want to pressure a pair of people it's much easier to link them together and see what the reaction is in order to not create as much of a defensive vibe. Going straight and saying you're scum makes them consider their actions before posting much more than they would otherwise. I don't get how you guys cannot see this.


Honestly, I'm getting tired of everyone here. No one makes an analytic read of the voting process at all. Do you guys even try to win? I gave some people in this thread of the benefit of the doubt. But, apparently I'm dumb enough to snipe someone who's calling me out. Oh well, I'm gonna read the filters and compare times. I'll post more later.

By the way, Obzy you're awful at this game.


You are right my bad, I missed the post about you saying his posts were erratic and not sure on voting for him, the second one I see was when he had 6 so thats where I got my theory of. I still don't like your early case on Odin. But yeah after seeing that post and with what I said and what you said about killing someone who was majorly calling you out is making me think you are town, still somewhat suspicious but not as sure as before.
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 03:05 GMT
#803
My current thoughts on people


1.Jonny - Honestly not sure anymore, I don't see why he would kill Van if he was mafia as it would put him in the spotlight. I don't like his early cases on Odin, after the drunk posts I think he posting exactly the same as last game where he was town.

2. OWB- His filter is just as small as mine but I feel like he hasn't contributed much in those posts and is just trying to blend in. He started out posting just about meta stuff and how lurkers need to post stuff. He kept this up till someone called him out on it. The post right after said he would start posting reads and stuff and he did but they were reads that were either common opinions like how Nyx is prob town since he posting exactly the same as last game and then the popular Cake is scum read at the time. His third read in that post was about July, wasn't saying he was scum but was saying he is playing different than last game and we should watch his posts. Talks about lurkers need to post, which is always a valid thing but they know they need to post more(well I know I need to post more and hope others know that to, also find it funny since he is also a lurker who has posted just as much as me). He posts some reads again about how Storr hasn't done much and then he says his main scum read is on E00e, I thought he was somewhat suspicious at the time but he doesn't really give a reason why he is voting for him other than that he looks suspicious and doesn't think he is town. After that he says he has to go and won't be back before the deadline. He leaves his vote on E00e but doesn't say why he is voting for him and in the earlier post where he thinks e00e is scum he doesn't give any good reason other than he looks suspicious. That just seems really scummy to me leaving a vote on someone and not giving clear explanations why.

He comes back and responds after being called out by Balla about leaving the vote on E00e. He says he didn't want to not vote and felt e00e was a safe vote, never says any reason why it was a safe vote again, when someone asks him about that he says he gave his reasons on e00e in that earlier post. In that earlier post all he says he feels like its a good vote because he under suspicion and that he hasn't done anything to make me feel like he is town. I just can't accept this as a answer for leaving a vote on someone.


His last post was calling me out, I deserved to be called out at that point since I didn't post that much and a lot of my reads were sheeps. I just find that its funny he called me out on that when he has hardly put any reads out there too and the reason he voted for E00e was just cause he was under suspicion at the time and doesn't seem town. That looks like a sheep read to me.

3. Balla - As for Storr's request as for why I think he is town all game I thought he brought up good questions and pressure on people. I have agreed on almost all of his reads all game too. None of his posts have just seem scummy to me.


Will post my e00e and some other thoughts later, gotta do some ranked 5s with my team and practice for a lan in a couple of days
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 03:51 GMT
#807
Yes I def think he is mafia

##Vote onlywonderboy
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 03:58 GMT
#809
@Balla

What do you think about my vote on OWB


Also my team only wanted to play 1 ranked 5s game so I'm here now and starting to write my thoughts on the people I didn't list in my earlier post.
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 04:08 GMT
#814
On November 02 2013 13:03 Balla24 wrote:
@Vonthin: Sorry but your case isn't that great~~ All you do is summarize what he did.. We can already see that, where's the analysis? Why is he doing what he's doing? How does it fit with his earlier play..



I think he is trying to blend in, hasn't had any good reads and hasn't done much besides talk about meta and calling out lurkers when he is a lurker himself
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 04:43 GMT
#816
The E00e post is coming, with my thoughts on some other people too, TL keeps crashing so its slowing me down a lot. Will get it out before I go to sleep
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 05:13 GMT
#818
I think E00e might be scummy but he prob just be town who struggles to get his point across a lot of the time like myself,honestly 50/50 on him at this point.

I didn't like a lot of his posts at the start, a lot of them just seemed to be lacking and didn't say much like I think July and Jonnys posts are inconsistent but doesn't say why. After Vanesco and myself thought he might be scum he started explaining himself and responded to accusations a lot better. Like he made a post where he says Odin looks scummy to him and gave the reasoning that he looks a little nervous in his posts and he has some posts that are useless and distracting. His more recent posts has good reasoning behind how he didn't think Jonny was mafia. Some of the things that I don't like about his posts was the post he made about how he was suspicious of Vanesco and how he hasn't written about me and thought we might be scum off of a feeling he has, doesn't give any reasoning at all other than a feeling.I didn't like when me and Vanesco and poofter had votes for him he like gave up. He made posts where he says things like "if only my opinion mattered" and then saying that he feels like he is going to get lynched when he had 3 votes on him and then when he voted for Odin he was like I don't feel like my vote is important. If you are town I don't think you should just give up like that and should just keep posting who you think is scum and what not cause It will help show who is scum if you do get lynched and flip town.


I think Storr might be scum, his filter feels somewhat like OWB to me. He has barely done any reads at all. All he is doing is trying to lead town and blending in. He was the very first person to vote for July, he voted for him as a pressure vote to get him to post since he didn't post yet but never took it off after July started posting which I don't see why cause July didn't seem that scummy at that point. Besides that all he really does is try to lead town but never does any reads or scum hunting himself.






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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 05:43 GMT
#827
On November 02 2013 14:32 cakemanofdoom wrote:
Somewhat minor thing Vonthin, I would have preferred to see that big paragraph broken up into smaller ones.

and all those posts that you say make you feel better about E00e come before your list calling him scum. What's up with that? At the time of the list you didn't say 50/50 or anything, you call him scum. He has made zero posts since then and now you call him 50/50?



I honestly didn't look at his filter that closely till I made that list, was just going off a quick glance of his filter and my earlier reads when I made that list. After completely rereading his filter while making that indepth post I felt he seemed like he could be town
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 18:30 GMT
#852
While I agree with you Storr about how Nyx's posting has been pretty useless, you just ignore the mine, Ballas and Cakes concerns about you and just attack Nyx. I have some concerns about lynching Nyx, I still think he is a really poor town compared to his posts last game and it is never good to lynch a townie even if it is useless, its just another free kill for mafia.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 18:50 GMT
#853
@E00e

Can you tell me what you think about the rest of my post about you? And also tell me you you think is currently scum? You haven't done much recently and your last 2 posts I don't think help your case to much.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 19:01 GMT
#855
I said this about you

I think Storr might be scum, his filter feels somewhat like OWB to me. He has barely done any reads at all. All he is doing is trying to lead town and blending in. He was the very first person to vote for July, he voted for him as a pressure vote to get him to post since he didn't post yet but never took it off after July started posting which I don't see why cause July didn't seem that scummy at that point. Besides that all he really does is try to lead town but never does any reads or scum hunting himself.



Balla said this

For the second reason: I feel like the mafia leader is someone who is VERY comfortable being in an active town. It's not affecting the mafia team as much as I'd like... this leads me to believe StorrZerg is among the mafia team. IMO, he has the most experience, he often plays in person/on video which is super active and you have to think fast as mafia. I was expecting a LOT more from StorrZerg as a town player... but he's been very VERY underwhelming and is instead choosing to lurk heavily... he's not mentioning a LOT of players and is constantly questioning Jonny and I..

I also think that he will be less experienced with the roleblocker role, although this might be completely false, but the show he plays on and the crowd he plays with generally never use the roleblocker role. Notice how he puts light pressure on me at the beginning of day2, right after I've been roleblocked as if he's trying to hint that i'm not town when generally being roleblocked (with no claims) is a surefire way of confirming a townie.



Cake said this

I agree that Storr doesn't look very good atm. I don't know quite what to think about the comfort with activity argument because I've never read anything like it before, but Storr really hasn't been posting opinions on a lot of people. Even now, he's had far more posts talking about how town should be acting than about who he thinks is scum. Since his reads on me and July he's only talked about Nyx.

I feel like if he actually wanted something town-favored done, he could have been finding scum rather than just directing town around.




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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 19:09 GMT
#857
On November 03 2013 04:02 E00e wrote:
@Vonthin
The first part of your post is just factual from your point of view. So the things that is left is that I use my feelings more than reasoning in accusations. This is correct. I have a hard time finding evidence but I do get scummy feelings about other players. I should try to find out why exactly I get these feelings but it is not easy.


This still isn't helping much in your case of being town, you haven't had many scum reads in a long time that weren't just feelings and had any good questions to people about being scum, you really need to start being useful and post stuff instead of saying I need to try to find out why I get these feelings.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 19:21 GMT
#863
Alright here are some questions for you

1, Why didn't you take your pressure vote off July after he started to post, he didn't look scummy or at least scummy enough to keep the vote on him. I don't blame anyone for voting July but it just seems weird to me you voted for him before he even posted to get posting, and then when he did start posting you didn't take it off.

2. Who else do you think might be scum besides Nyx? At the moment I see you wanting to lynch Nyx as a mafia going after the weakest member of the flock. You said in the past you would work on posting more reads but you never really got around to scum hunting besides Nyx just now

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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 19:49 GMT
#867
What are your thoughts on OWB and Poofter currently
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 20:59 GMT
#895
Claiming RB is a good thing, helps us determine the set up of the game. Ofc if you were mafia you could always lie to mess us up but I don't think Balla is mafia
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 21:11 GMT
#900
On November 03 2013 06:07 JonnyLaw wrote:
That's the thing. I'm not pressuring anything with that question. I'm just curious why?

So if we know there's a mafia roleblocker then we learned that we have at least one blue player. That's all as far as I can see. At the same time it builds credibility for him and if there is no mafia roleblocker it's a very safe mafia play. That's my only point. I'm not accusing balla of anything but why blindly accept anyone as a town player who is not obzy?



I don't understand, we can have more than 1 blue player if there is a mafia RB. You still get the message that you got RB if you are Vanilla town. I agree with that fact that we shouldn't blindly accept someone as town unless if they are IC but so far he hasn't done anything yet to make me think he is mafia
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 21:18 GMT
#903
On November 03 2013 06:12 StorrZerg wrote:
For now i'd lynch nyx, owb


and i have far more people leaning town, who i wouldn't be interested in lynching today

obzy
balla
jonny
odin
Vonthin
tehpoofter

null on
cake
E00e

i don't think i missed anyone..



http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&currentpage=39#777

Way to contradict yourself about basic lists about who is mafia/town, can you give more reasoning behind this list pls
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 21:21 GMT
#904
And just because you posted this list doesn't mean I think you are mafia, I'm not quite sold yet on you being mafia. I just find it funny you made that post about lists after me and balla made a list and then you do the same thing we did
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 02 2013 22:08 GMT
#908
I have to go now and will be back later tonight, prob around 1-2am est depending on whats the earliest train home I can get
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 14:06 GMT
#968
On November 03 2013 08:02 JonnyLaw wrote:
Vonthin, we went over this already. I said don't lynch july when he had 3 votes on him. Actually I said it multiple times. Go back a few pages and it was discussed.


I don't understand what you mean by "we went over this already", after you called me out the first time I said you were right, I said I missed the post about you defending him when he had 3 votes. After I responded that time I didn't ask you again about July unless you thought those questions I asked to Storr thought were directed to you?


On November 03 2013 08:22 JonnyLaw wrote:
@poofter Perfect mafia play is to have the town think you're one of them so people follow your lead. Balla's play seems straightforward enough but who can tell. The only resaon I brought it up was because he was here and I wanted an answer. Apparently he had to leave for a while. Let's leave it alone until he's around.

@vonthin It was you who brought up July yesterday and said, oh okay it's fine. You flip back and forth on the same people for the same points. You sheep onto popular votes continuously. I know you said you don't have motivation but at least put some effort into your game. If you want clarification go read my filter from page 3 on. I just did and after July started posting I saw no reason to lynch him. I said maybe as a third option behind pooftah and odin then back off that claim even.



Still a little confused about the first part of this post about bringing up July again, can you link the post that I am clearly missing. As for the later part, I have been trying to put more effort recently so I'm not dead weight. Besides me sheeping on you with the Van thing I have been trying to not sheep onto popular votes like I was the first to bring up the case on OWB recently as he started to fly under the radar again, and then my questions with Storr I don't think was sheeping since I was already somewhat suspicious of him and wanted a better read on him so I started asking him questions. Still confused about me bring up you and July again cause I didn't after I said you were right and then said I think you might be town cause I was wrong about July and I don't think you are stupid and would kill the person who was on to you right away as that would put you in the main focus of everyone.

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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 14:07 GMT
#969
On November 03 2013 08:30 JonnyLaw wrote:
@Vonthin Okay Vonthin, explain to me how you agree with Vanesco's points. I'll give them to you since you don't want to commit any time to this game by your own admission.

When in this game have I tried to blend in?

It's strange that I notice the hosts have an error in the voting thread? I read it and saw cakeman listed twice. He was listed twice in the other voting post as well. It bothers me.

His post goes on to say I think poofter's scummy, I made poor cases and defended cakeman. There's nothing else there. Tell me how that post summarizes your ideas because you're still saying nothing.



The main points in Van post are:

1. You had really weak cases on the people who had major reads early on in the game.
2. Doesn't like how you defended Cake multiple times.



Your case against Van was very week and seemed forced at the time imo. Your case against Odin I felt was very weak for his posts at the time too, the reasons you pushed for him was his posts were a mess and kept contradicting himself because he said he read the thread multiple times, then that he was a spammer but you were spamming too since you were arguing with him which was unnecessary. As for your case with Poofter, I agree with some of it. I don't like your early argument where you just link him with Van saying they are both scum but don't give any reason for Poofter. This is the reason you end up giving

I really wanted to push poofter into posting and see what he said about my post on Van.

That's why I included him at the end of the post. Poofter was always the guy I wanted pressure but I thought doing it by pressuring van could be more effective. He did respond. Then I made my case on him, which I stand by. I do not think I could get poofter lynched day 1 and still do not.


I thouht that was a stupid reason. I do agree with the post about him http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&currentpage=14#280 that was the reasons why I thought he could be scum early game.



As for the Cakeman thing, yeah the voting thing was sorta a stretch but you defend cake so many times besides the vote correction.

Your very first post about Poofter where he said he didn't like Cakes read on Storr, you don't really say what you think about Cake and try to change the subject to Storr so people talk less about Cake

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&currentpage=14#262
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&currentpage=23#443
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&currentpage=21#420

First 2 posts were defending Cake and the third was another interaction with Cake that didn't seem that necessary. That is why Van made the possible connection between you and Cake, I didn't see why he had to defend him that much so thats why I agreed with Van.


That is why I agreed with Vans post. Moving on can you link me the post where I said you were trying to blend in cause looking at my filter I do not see that anywhere.


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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 14:07 GMT
#970
I am going to bed now, been up for almost a day straight since I got stuck in nyc penn station for 4 & a half hours since I missed the last train due to DST. I wanted to make a post about Odins recent posts which I don't really like very much and about another post bout Poofter but I am about to pass out. Will try to be back before the deadline today to make the posts and to change my vote if needed, have 2 important tasks to do when I wake up and not sure how long they take but I think I should make it around 6ish. If I somehow miss the deadline I still think OWB is the best candidate currently so I'm keeping my vote on him for the reasons I posted here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&currentpage=41#803
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 22:29 GMT
#1035
My overdue thoughts on Poofter:

I always thought he was always someone scummy, never really had that strong of a read on him since I was mainly paying attention on other people plus he does not have a lot of posts. His posts early game seemed off like the "I really wish you would give us something" to July and his last post which didn't say anything useful besides I thought we would talk more about the night kill and that he is reading filters. I thought we talked a decent amount of the nightkill, thats where all the discussion about Jonny came from. Besides that I didn't like his reasoning on some things like how he got on the Cake bandwagon in the early game. His main reasoning was he just didn't like his reasoning on Storr and that other people accused him of being scummy. He then tries to defend his view on him being scummy by saying I don't like how he misinterpreted 2 things. Those things were also misinterpreted by other people including myself with the Nyx/LoL forum thing and I just see it as weak reasoning to think why Cake was scum at the time.

I will vote for him if we need a majority but I feel more comfortable with OWB




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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 22:29 GMT
#1036
Even after OWB most recent posts I still think he is a good candidate for a lynch today.


I think I explained my case about e00 pretty well. There are a lot of uncertainties surrounding the day 1 lynch. More times than not they come down to hunches rather than hard facts just because there is so much less information to work with. e00 was playing in a way that wasn't directly benefiting town and I thought there was a chance he was scum.


You did not explain your case about e00 pretty well. All you said was is that he is under suspicion from other people and then a feeling about him. That is not a strong case, that is just plain sheeping. You do not give any explanations about the vote at all. I would not have been mad if you actually made an explanation and had good reasoning and then left the vote on him.


He's been more active recently, but I think there's a chance he's a scum who knows he needs to work his ass off to try and turn the suspicion away from him. We'll see how the discussion goes down around deadline, but for the moment



What the fuck am I supposed to do about this? If I got called out for not posting enough do you just expect me to not post anything and continue being a dead weight to town like you are currently? You still haven't done anything all game besides besides just sheep on the e00e vote and call out lurkers when you are a lurker yourself. When you do start posting again you call me scum for weak reasoning mainly because I am the most vocal about you. You have made 0 reads on other people and are just trying to hop on my vote after Balla voted for me.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 22:42 GMT
#1041
On November 04 2013 07:40 OdinOfPergo wrote:
Vonthin, could you try to include the name/date portion of a quote.. It would make this a lot easier.
Also, you rehashing a lot of things, not bringing a whole lot in.. Frankly Poofter looks the worst out of lurkers and these post seem like you are just trying to focus on someone other than him if we have to lynch a lurker.


I said I would lynch him, I just think OWB is a better lynch. Poofter looks suspicious but I think he at least tried to contribute. OWB has done nothing all game imo
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 22:48 GMT
#1045
On November 04 2013 07:43 OdinOfPergo wrote:
and what's your opinion on any of the other reads? It's not like you have a shortage of things to talk about.


what opinions do you want to know
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 22:54 GMT
#1049
On November 04 2013 07:42 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2013 07:29 Vonthin wrote:
Even after OWB most recent posts I still think he is a good candidate for a lynch today.


I think I explained my case about e00 pretty well. There are a lot of uncertainties surrounding the day 1 lynch. More times than not they come down to hunches rather than hard facts just because there is so much less information to work with. e00 was playing in a way that wasn't directly benefiting town and I thought there was a chance he was scum.


You did not explain your case about e00 pretty well. All you said was is that he is under suspicion from other people and then a feeling about him. That is not a strong case, that is just plain sheeping. You do not give any explanations about the vote at all. I would not have been mad if you actually made an explanation and had good reasoning and then left the vote on him.


He's been more active recently, but I think there's a chance he's a scum who knows he needs to work his ass off to try and turn the suspicion away from him. We'll see how the discussion goes down around deadline, but for the moment



What the fuck am I supposed to do about this? If I got called out for not posting enough do you just expect me to not post anything and continue being a dead weight to town like you are currently? You still haven't done anything all game besides besides just sheep on the e00e vote and call out lurkers when you are a lurker yourself. When you do start posting again you call me scum for weak reasoning mainly because I am the most vocal about you. You have made 0 reads on other people and are just trying to hop on my vote after Balla voted for me.

I don't know that to tell you about the e00 vote. It's day 1, of course a lot of the votes are going to just come down to suspicions rather than hard facts. Balla even said the vote itself was a good town play despite not liking how I left the thread.. I also don't know how you can claim I'm jumping on voting for you just because Balla started it. I made my post calling you yesterday, I had you pegged as scum then even though I didn't put my official vote in.


Whenever I jumped on any votes early on and didn't give much reasoning I got called out by you ad others for sheeping my opinion? Now you are saying sheeping is OK since you were sheeping? As for calling me out you had weak reasoning, jthe main reason was that I was sheeping and was a lurker which is exactly what you are doing. And now that I am posting you say its just cause I got called out. Real strong argument.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 22:58 GMT
#1052
On November 04 2013 07:52 OdinOfPergo wrote:
Thoughts on my case of Jonny, Storr, Vonthin? Thoughts of Balla's cases, what do you think about the Nyx case? How do you feel about Cake right now? I realize you don't OWB, while I don't really agree with it that's not the only reason I don't like you right now. I want to know more.. You coming in posting a lot of irrelevant stuff and then a crumby case on a lurker instead of trying to kill scum is not a town oriented play style.


I think Jonny is town at this point, he had valid defenses for July and tried to stop the train. I don't think he was stupid enough to kill Van in the night since that put him in the spotlight. I think you(not sure if it was you but someone said it , doesnt really matter who since its a valid question) said wouldn't mafia want to kill people in the right direction? They should but when there were other people like Balla who might have been in the right direction why not kill him? Plus mafia coulda saw that hey Van was going hard on Jonny, if we kill him he will look really bad and might get lyched so thats a free kill for us.


I have a nuetral opinion on Storr, early on he didn't say much but recently I like his cases and questions against people. He also had good answers to the questions I had for him earlier.

Reading up on his Nyx case now. I don't like how he doesn't want to lynch lurkers especially when they have suspicious looking filters.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 23:04 GMT
#1055
I think Ballas case against me does bring valid points. My filter on Day 1 was really bad, no excuse for that. One of the main reasons I thought Cake could be scum was the possible Jonny connection plus I didn't like his first couple posts but I chalked that up to mistakes from super fast pressure that he wasn't expecting, but after I saw the Jonny connection when Jonny was one of my main targets I thought he could be scum to, but after my Jonny scum reads were cleared I didn't think Cake was that bad looking. Why not pressure easy targets though If I think they could be scum? I also did say I was going to address Poofter when I woke up and I did do just that.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 23:07 GMT
#1056
On November 04 2013 08:02 OdinOfPergo wrote:
did you not even read my post last night? I said the polar opposite of that. Why would mafia not want to kill someone who was about to throw them on the block?

You are directly contradicting yourself with that Storr statement.
You previous said that "Storr's filter look like OWB"
But now he's null?


At the point I thought he was suspicious his filter did look like OWB, but then he started posting good questions and cases whereas OWB did not. I did not go back and look for the question, was just going by memory and wanted to get a quick response out so I could get to other reads
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 23:35 GMT
#1069
On November 04 2013 08:28 OdinOfPergo wrote:
Ok Vonthin, I don't agree with you about it but I could see that as a bad townie play.
What about the fluff post and rehashing arguments from day 2?

Also, we need to settle on a lynch. I said before if we have to go for a lurker Poofter looks the worst.

##Unvote
##Vote: Tehpoofer



What fluff post/rehashing are you talking about, can you link me the post(s) in question so I can give a response.

Also I will switch to Poofter soon if we don't get more OWB votes or if Poofter makes some super amazing post that makes me think he is town
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 23:44 GMT
#1072
##Unvote

##Vote: Tehpoofter

I still think OWB better lynch today, but Poofter I think does have a good chance of being mafia, worry a little since we haven't heard from him at all recently and didn't have a chance to defend himself.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 23:52 GMT
#1076
Does the no conditional voting thing count if you don't say anything? I know if you say vote for no vote like July did its ok but if you just don't straight up say anything is it ok? If he doesn't vote and get mod killed then we are wasting a lynch
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 03 2013 23:55 GMT
#1079
Yeah I wrote that post when I just saw your first post but not the second one, Mods can you please clarify what will happen so we know to switch?
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 04 2013 00:09 GMT
#1094
##Unvote

##Vote onlywonderboy

I don't feel comfortable with a Poofter lynch if he ends up not saying anything, While Poofters filter has some bad parts I don't want to vote for him if he hasn't said anything recently. If he doesn't end up posting then he will either get replaced and if he is town then we will get a better townie(this also means we can get a better mafia 2 which could be bad), if no replacement we get a mod kill and we waste a lynch. If he does post before the deadline and he doesn't say something that I think helps his case I will switch back.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 04 2013 00:13 GMT
#1097
On November 04 2013 09:07 OdinOfPergo wrote:
I am fine with switching to Von or Storr.


why would you be ok with a storr lynch? Just cause Jonny said Storr by accident?
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 04 2013 00:20 GMT
#1106
I just don't see why he would be ok for a Storr vote at this point, the vote does not have a strong case compared to Poofter/OWB and yours and odins case against me
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 04 2013 00:25 GMT
#1115
##unvote

##vote tehpoofter


That post doesn't really help you at all.


Also Odin I know you have a case on Storr, I just don't think its strong enough to push for a lynch this close to the deadline when he only had 1 vote, thats what I was trying to say
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 04 2013 00:34 GMT
#1119
On November 04 2013 09:25 Tehpoofter wrote:
I screwed up and got confused on days and thought tomorrow was the end of the day. Its totally on me. Looking at filters I have no real reason to vote OWB because I don't want to get mod killed I honestly would rather go on Vonthin/Cake from what I was reading last night. Going back to read why I have for some reason a shit ton of votes.


Why did you vote for him then lol, why didn't you just vote for me or Cake
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 04 2013 00:35 GMT
#1120
woops didnt update the thread to see you unvoted
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 04 2013 01:11 GMT
#1153
On November 04 2013 10:09 JonnyLaw wrote:
I'm comfortable with the Von lynch coming up. Let's discuss this issue. He defended until it was a clear lynch then tried to switch off of poofter.


I only wanted to switch off Poofter cause there was a good chance of a modkill if he didn't post or a replacement. Once he posted again I voted for him again. I always thought he was scummy. look at my filter
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 04 2013 01:24 GMT
#1157
On November 04 2013 10:05 OdinOfPergo wrote:
Thoughts on that cute interaction before the lynch?



I think at the time of that post he knew he couldn't say anything to get us to switch so he made a post to try to throw us off the case of his friends. The first point he made was look at the people who led the charge against him so he wanted us to look at those guys so I think at least 1 of the remaining mafia did not vote for him, This leaves OWB/Nyx/E00e. He then says look into the people who are saving OWB so I think he was trying to redirect off of him. Then says look into Cake/Jonny/OWB thinking since he flipped mafia he prob thought it could maybe make them look better. Still think OWB is 100% mafia especially after this last post

On November 04 2013 09:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2013 09:46 StorrZerg wrote:
What about myself? or Cake? (the only other 2 you could vote for that have votes on them)

I was still hoping there was a chance people switching over to Von. I kinda tunneled visioned on him and didn't really have solid cases for other players.



Sounds like a mafia excuse to me. When you are town you have to have reads on everyone and not just tunnel that hard on one guy. He sheeped a vote on e00e day one and did nothing else till all he did was call me scum, nothing else besides that besides excuses.

Gonna look into Nyx more and Cake for the third mafia, still leaning towards Jonny as town but not counting him out as mafia
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 04 2013 02:26 GMT
#1160
I can see why some people can see a link between us, I defended you a couple times recently. I think you are town currently, I thought you were a little scummy for day/night 1 since your posts didn't say much imo, but then after I started to ask you a lot of questions and call you out you responded very well and then just started to make good town like posts. I think OWB is def scum and you were pretty much the only one besides me who was 100% ok with lynching him, Obzy was ok with it too but he already confirmed town. I think you were smart to be semi-hesitant on the Poofter vote since he might have been mod killed/replaced since he wasn't posting so we would've wasted the lynch if he didnt end up posting, once he did started posting you pressed him to get out information of him to help us determine who was mafia depending how he flipped and I think the info we got out of him from your questions will def help us find the remaining 2.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 04:56 GMT
#1373
I currently think OWB is scum and then his partner is prob Odin.

On November 05 2013 06:01 JonnyLaw wrote:
In order storr > odin > vonthin > owb > E00e > nyx for lynch candidates as of this moment.


I don't see why Storr would kill Jonny since he was Jonnys main scum read and would put him even more in the spotlight to get himself lynched. I thought Jonny was somewhat suspicious after Van getting lynched but I gave up on him being scum cause I thought he was 2 smart of a guy to kill Van if he was scum since it would just make him worse.

I think the remaining two mafia killed Jonny for two reasons. 1. It would make Storr look bad so he would get lynched 2. Jonny was right about his other scum reads. I know I am town and I already listed why I think Storr isn't mafia so that leaves OWB/Nyx/E00e/Odin. I think OWB is def mafia and leaning towards Odin for his partner, Nyx could be his partner but I see Odin more likely. Do not have a strong read on E00e. I also do not think Cake/Balla would be working with him either.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 04:56 GMT
#1374
My case for OWB:


When I read his filter it just screams to me text book mafia blending in. Day 1 he did not do a lot. Votes for E00e and doesn't give any solid reasons why other than other people saw him as scum and that he has a bad feeling about him. Leaves the vote on him and is gone for the rest of the day. He also doesn't talk about Poofter at all but calls out Cake for being scum when he was the main person calling out Poofter. Day 2 he doesn't do much besides call me out for lurking and sheeping which he has been doing himself. When asked for other reads he said he was just tunneling on me all day and had nothing else which looks bad since you should always have thoughts on other people if you are town since there are multiple mafia. Doesn't talk about Poofter again and when asked for an opinion he says his vote doesn't matter cause everyone already had their minds made up on him, another text book mafia play where you don't take a stance on something. 2 minutes before the day 2 deadline happened, Poofter realized he wasn't going to be able to defend himself anymore so he made an attempt to try to throw us off the case for the other 2 mafia remaining. He said look at the people who are saving OWB. With that he wanted us to think OWB could be town since he called him scum and wanted us to think the people who didn't vote for him scummy. He then says when he flips town look at Cake/Jonny/OWB, I think this was another statement to confuse us to not thinking OWB is scum because he is saying he is suspicious again.

As for OWB's more recent posts at the end of night 2 and start of day 3 he is still tunneling me and not giving reads on other people. He says I haven't tried to push other plays which just isn't true, I tried to push Jonny and Storr at one point in day 2 but after they gave me good responses to my accusations I didn't think they were scum anymore. Main reason why I didn't push for Poofter even though I thought he was scummy all game and said I would vote for him cause I thought OWB was a better lynch at the time since Poofter didn't post anything recently and there was a chance of a modkill which wouldve meant a wasted lynch. Once Poofter tried to defend himself and failed, I revoted for him right away.


I also do not like his day posts just now about the blues. His first post seemed like he was surprised that Jonny didn't flip blue like he was blue sniping. He then made a post saying he wondered who the blue players were, I just don't see the reason for this post unless you were scum and were hoping for someone to admit they were blue. Then makes another post saying he hopes blues make some sort of contribution to the game soon. I just don't see a reason for a blue to come out and say hey I am a cop, unless they are a cop who got 2 reads back that are positive for scum or if they were about to get lynched.I see this as another post as hoping a blue will come out so he will have an easy night kill.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 04:56 GMT
#1375
Current thoughts on Odin:

After the drunk posts he started to post just like he did last game. This isn't saying much cause it would be an ok tactic to post like you were town but none of his posts then didn't seem that scummy to me at the time he started posting normally. Also what if the drunk/stress posts were just an easy excuse to pardon his disruption to the game? Looking at his reads and votes and reasoning for them seem a little off to me. He voted for July very late, his reason was that he just doesn't like his posts and will post his reasons why after the deadline but I don't think he did make that post so it sorta looks like he was just trying to fit in with the common July vote since he was already set to be lynched. His first vote on day 2 was on Jonny, saying he made disruptive posts and tried to deflect. While Jonny was being somewhat disruptive he was still bringing up good points and reads at the time imo, to me his post just seemed his was sorta mad at him for arguing with him d1 and calling him out being scum and almost getting him killed.

His next vote seems even more suspicious to me and not cause it was on me. Before he voted for me he made a post saying that he did not like my post where I said Jonny was town and OWB was scum. He says I am trying to deflect off Jonny and make a train on OWB. His reasons for not liking OWB is scum is that he is not around to defend himself and that I hesitated since I didn't put my vote in the post where I called OWB out and only voted for him when Cake asked if I thought he was scum. I honestly forgot to vote in that post, also don't see how that makes my case for OWB any weaker. Seems to me he was trying to deflect off of OWB and keep the Jonny is scum discussion going. Then proceeds to unvote Jonny and vote for me saying he doesn't like my posts. Why unvote for Jonny and then vote for me if he only thought I was deflecting off of Jonny and saying he was town? He never gave a reason why he unvoted Jonny, his last before before he unvoted him was saying he liked him as a Day 2 lynch. Later on he unvotes me and Votes for poofter(4th vote on Poofter). Says he still doesn't like my posts but can chalk it up to bad town play. Still doesn't say why he doesn't like me besides that I thought I was deflecting off of Jonny and onto OWB. His reason to vote for poofter is that we had to lynch someone today and that he looks best out of the lurkers. Never actually says why he thinks Poofter looks bad other than that he is a lurker. I think at that point since it was a long long time since Poofter posted anything and everyone was onto him and it was gonna be impossible for him to defend himself with so little time left he just threw him under the bus to make himself look better.

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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 04:57 GMT
#1376
As for interactions between Poofter/OWB/Odin

OWB:

Does not mention Odin at all. Say he didn't like the case on Poofter early on in Day 1 but doesn't really say anything besides that about Poofter.

Poofter:

Does not say anything about OWB till the very end of Day 2. He votes for him just to vote for someone. Then says look into the people who are saving OWB. Then says to investigate him with some other people. He said the last two points 2 minutes before he got lynched, think he was saying he was scum to throw us off with reverse psychology since he would end up flipping scum.

As for his interactions with Odin he says in Day 1 that he agrees with Jonny that he shouldn't ave signed up if he didn't have the time. Then says he wants to see more out of him when he ends up posting more. Other than that he doesn't mention him once. Balla also pointed out that when Odin had 4 votes and July had two he switched off his vote from e00e he votes for July and not Odin


Odin:

He mentions OWB a couple times. First time he mentions him was after Obzy voted for him. He said "OWB has been missing for a long time, but considering my own personal availability issues, I'm not really in a position to say that." Next time he says he doesn't like me cause I said Jonny was town and that I was deflecting onto OWB and trying to start a train on him. Then in his posts about lurkers he says he has a null opinion.

As for Odins interactions with Poofter when someone asks him very early in Day 1 his thoughts on him is that he is almost contentless and in that little content he posts a case on Cake. Then says the content part bothers him a little but is ok with the Cake case since he also doesn't like Cake. Next time he mentions him is that he looks the worse out of the lurkers, then he votes for him and once again says he looks worst out of all the lurkers.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 05:25 GMT
#1379
On November 05 2013 14:10 cakemanofdoom wrote:
Okay first thing Vonthin: please break up your paragraphs more. Actually, if you're here, can you reformat your paragraphs (split your larger paragraphs in your cases on owb/odin into 2-4 smaller ones each) before I read them? I get a bit of a headache trying to read them atm.

Nyx... I keep telling you, please explain yourself when you do stuff. You simply don't have credibility normally. Also, I'd like if you address previous points.


Can't reformat posts since you can't edit, and not gonna repost em since it will be spam. Will try to keep it in mind in the future to split paragraphs more, at first all that was in a giant post but then I realize that would be a pain to read so I split em up into different posts and didn't think about the paragraphs much
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 05:36 GMT
#1381
Forgot about the spoilers option, now I can repost it formatted better without more giant walls of texts
+ Show Spoiler +
My case for OWB:


When I read his filter it just screams to me text book mafia blending in. Day 1 he did not do a lot. Votes for E00e and doesn't give any solid reasons why other than other people saw him as scum and that he has a bad feeling about him. Leaves the vote on him and is gone for the rest of the day.

He also doesn't talk about Poofter at all but calls out Cake for being scum when he was the main person calling out Poofter. Day 2 he doesn't do much besides call me out for lurking and sheeping which he has been doing himself. When asked for other reads he said he was just tunneling on me all day and had nothing else which looks bad since you should always have thoughts on other people if you are town since there are multiple mafia.


Doesn't talk about Poofter again and when asked for an opinion on him says his vote doesn't matter cause everyone already had their minds made up on him, another text book mafia play where you don't take a stance on something.

2 minutes before the day 2 deadline happened, Poofter realized he wasn't going to be able to defend himself anymore so he made an attempt to try to throw us off the case for the other 2 mafia remaining. He said look at the people who are saving OWB. With that he wanted us to think OWB could be town since he called him scum and wanted us to think the people who didn't vote for him scummy. He then says when he flips town look at Cake/Jonny/OWB, I think this was another statement to confuse us to not thinking OWB is scum because he is saying he is suspicious again.


As for OWB's more recent posts at the end of night 2 and start of day 3 he is still tunneling me and not giving reads on other people. He says I haven't tried to push other plays which just isn't true, I tried to push Jonny and Storr at one point in day 2 but after they gave me good responses to my accusations I didn't think they were scum anymore. Main reason why I didn't push for Poofter even though I thought he was scummy all game and said I would vote for him cause I thought OWB was a better lynch at the time since Poofter didn't post anything recently and there was a chance of a modkill which wouldve meant a wasted lynch. Once Poofter tried to defend himself and failed, I revoted for him right away.


I also do not like his day posts just now about the blues. His first post seemed like he was surprised that Jonny didn't flip blue like he was blue sniping. He then made a post saying he wondered who the blue players were, I just don't see the reason for this post unless you were scum and were hoping for someone to admit they were blue. Then makes another post saying he hopes blues make some sort of contribution to the game soon. I just don't see a reason for a blue to come out and say hey I am a cop, unless they are a cop who got 2 reads back that are positive for scum or if they were about to get lynched.I see this as another post as hoping a blue will come out so he will have an easy night kill.


+ Show Spoiler +
Current thoughts on Odin:

After the drunk posts he started to post just like he did last game. This isn't saying much cause it would be an ok tactic to post like you were town but none of his posts then didn't seem that scummy to me at the time he started posting normally. Also what if the drunk/stress posts were just an easy excuse to pardon his disruption to the game?


Looking at his reads and votes and reasoning for them seem a little off to me. He voted for July very late, his reason was that he just doesn't like his posts and will post his reasons why after the deadline but I don't think he did make that post so it sorta looks like he was just trying to fit in with the common July vote since he was already set to be lynched. His first vote on day 2 was on Jonny, saying he made disruptive posts and tried to deflect. While Jonny was being somewhat disruptive he was still bringing up good points and reads at the time imo, to me his post just seemed his was sorta mad at him for arguing with him d1 and calling him out being scum and almost getting him killed.

His next vote seems even more suspicious to me and not cause it was on me. Before he voted for me he made a post saying that he did not like my post where I said Jonny was town and OWB was scum. He says I am trying to deflect off Jonny and make a train on OWB. His reasons for not liking OWB is scum is that he is not around to defend himself and that I hesitated since I didn't put my vote in the post where I called OWB out and only voted for him when Cake asked if I thought he was scum. I honestly forgot to vote in that post, also don't see how that makes my case for OWB any weaker. Seems to me he was trying to deflect off of OWB and keep the Jonny is scum discussion going.

Then he proceeds to unvote Jonny and vote for me saying he doesn't like my posts. Why unvote for Jonny and then vote for me if he only thought I was deflecting off of Jonny and saying he was town? He never gave a reason why he unvoted Jonny, his last before before he unvoted him was saying he liked him as a Day 2 lynch.


Later on he unvotes me and Votes for poofter(4th vote on Poofter). Says he still doesn't like my posts but can chalk it up to bad town play. Still doesn't say why he doesn't like me besides that I thought I was deflecting off of Jonny and onto OWB. His reason to vote for poofter is that we had to lynch someone today and that he looks best out of the lurkers. He never actually says why he thinks Poofter looks bad other than that he is a lurker.

I think at that point since it was a long long time since Poofter posted anything and everyone was onto him and it was gonna be impossible for him to defend himself with so little time left he just threw him under the bus to make himself look better.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 05:42 GMT
#1382
On November 05 2013 14:06 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
i'd like to start with Storr

##Vote: StorrZerg



Can you give us your current reasons why you don't like Storr? Don't try to start a discussion by saying id like to start with storr then vote for him and say nothing else.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 07:09 GMT
#1400
@balla

I don't see how you think Storr is better than OWB at this point, he has hardly done anything this game, when he does post its either fluff or him tunneling on me for poor reasons. Like when someone asked him for opinions besides mine he gives a bullshit excuse that he was tunneling on me to hard and didn't have time to look at other people, if you are town you should be looking at everyone since everyone could be mafia. When people asked his thoughts on Poofter he responded by not giving an opinion on him and saying that since peoples minds were made up on him so there is no real point. That just screams scum to me and I don't know how it doesn't to you.

##vote onlywonderboy
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 07:57 GMT
#1409
On November 05 2013 16:30 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
your recent posting makes me feel like you're a pair with him



This is a new and original thought from you. I'm starting to think you might be who is scum with OWB.

Main reason I think Storr is town is that I think OWB is def town and has a lot higher chance of being scum than Storr. A storr/OWB being scum partners just seems very unlikely to me since Storr has been one of the most vocal about him being scum after me. I also don't see why Storr would kill Jonny as it makes him look a lot worse, if he was scum I think there wouldve been better choices to kill besides Jonny last night. Besides these 2 points he I would think he would be somewhat suspicious, would be 50/50ish on him being mafia/town but after seeing how he has interacted with OWB I think he is town. I don't think he tried to defend Poofter in anyway and always brought up valid points about him before and while the Poofter is scum train was going.

Also If me and Storr were mafia, why would I be trying to defend him this much? Mafia should help defend each other by trying to prove that they are town but they should not do it in a way that's obvious and would link the two of them together which will lead to both of their deaths and make mafia lose.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 08:09 GMT
#1414
On November 05 2013 17:01 StorrZerg wrote:
@Vonthin regarding nyxnyxnyx
Show nested quote +
This is a new and original thought from you. I'm starting to think you might be who is scum with OWB.


this irony?

Because it is not original, balla all ready pointed it out...


Balla said nothing about this post?
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 09:01 GMT
#1424
On November 05 2013 17:22 StorrZerg wrote:
If you call odin scummy, odin defends NYXNYXNYX
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&currentpage=52#1034

Also his day 2 preferred lynch.
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2013 06:58 OdinOfPergo wrote:
My prefered day 1 lynch is probably looking Vonthin or Storr. I feel about the same on both of them and Storr making a quest against Nyx really makes me dislike him even more. If he stores getting votes I'm fine with changing over to it.


As well as odins push onto Jonny
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&currentpage=48#945


Also Odins thoughts on the lurkers (doesn't list tehpoofter)
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2013 06:57 OdinOfPergo wrote:
I'm agains't lynching lurkers. Out of any of the lurkers if we have to lynch one I'd go for Poofter. Unless I really miss my mark Nyx is town. I think E00 looks ok for what he has said, and I'm pretty null on OWB atm.


It is quite possible the mafia trio being odin nyx tehpoofter



I just don't see OWB not being scum, he has done nothing to contribute to town with his play. I based a lot of my case on Odin off of OWB being scum plus scum killing Jonny for his reads so that one of them is mafia which excludes me and that I don't think you are mafia case of wanting to lynch OWB most of the game and that leaves Odin/Nyx/E00e. I don't think its E00e but I will look more into it. I have to get ready to go to work soon or I would write a case about Nyx and compare it to Odin's case. I get back around 8 pm est and might be able to post during my lunch break/on my phone if things are slow.


Also to clarify on the 3 voting scenarios Balla posted. All 3 tell us a lot no matter how they flip. Besides thinking OWB is more scummy than Storr wouldn't it make more sense to vote for him since If it flips mafia it helps prove mine and Storrs innocence. If we vote Storr or if you guys vote for me then It only really clears 1 other person no matter how they flip

Vonthin Lynch:

If mafia it clears OWB, but doesn't clear Storr since he has always been suspicious of me.
If town It makes OWB look even more scummy

OWB Lynch:

If mafia it helps mine and Storrs case a lot for being town
If scum it makes both me and him look a lot worse.


Storr Lynch:

If mafia it doesn't clear Storr since he hasn't said anything about him. Makes me look really bad.
If town then I look innocent and doesn't do anything for OWB


It just seems like town has a lot more to gain if we lynch OWB over me or Storr since it 2 people either look scummy or town
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 09:03 GMT
#1425
edit by posting: for the storr lynch logic I meant it doesnt clear OWB
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 05 2013 09:29 GMT
#1426
another error:

I said
OWB Lynch:

If mafia it helps mine and Storrs case a lot for being town
If scum it makes both me and him look a lot worse.



I meant to say if town and not if scum.


Anyways I finished getting ready so I'm leaving now, will be home around 8:20pm est
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 06 2013 19:37 GMT
#1569
Still think OWB is the best vote at this point, still looks the scumiest to me, his defense post was horrible and gave nothing besides I feels like its either storr or me and then votes storr, also I still think the vote tells the town the most information no matter how it flips though I don't think it will flip town, I feel if he was town he would be try to defending himself a lot more than this and try to give actual reads on people to help the town when he does end up dying.


Not really sure on 3rd mafia, Odin looked somewhat suspicious with his posting towards OWB and Poofter but other than that he seemed sorta town(though a lot of his reads were townies but had good reasoning for some). If OWB isn't mafia(I just don't see his happening though) then I think Odin is in the clear(and storr would prob be mafia) but the pairing does make sense to me when OWB flips mafia. E00e and Nyx seems less likely than Odin as 3rd but still possibilities. I still think Balla/Cake def town and I don't see Storr working with OWB.



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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 06 2013 23:37 GMT
#1578
Think OWB is to smart to post anything at this point, the more he says the more we get out of finding who the third scum is, if he was town he def would've started his defense and said who he thought was scummy when he posted earlier today.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 07 2013 01:07 GMT
#1582
gj guys 1 more to go
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 07 2013 02:21 GMT
#1617
I think

Obzy
Cake
Balla
Storr

are all strong town.


Weaker town reads are:

E00e and Nyx, I think they are townish but that wouldn't surprise me if they ended up being mafia


Odin is my biggest suspect for last mafia, I already made my case awhile ago. Plus his posting today I sorta got the feel he didn't want to vote for OWB


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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 07 2013 04:41 GMT
#1632
About why E00e is in the weak town read list:

Not a lot of posts to give me information, a good amount of his posts are just responding to accusations/questions directed at him. He has had some good posts which is why I think he is town like when he said Jonny was town and did vote for OWB twice so thats why I put him on the town side. RB claim could be genuine could also be fake. Its more what-ifs like you guys said and should only be looked upon if Odin ends up being town. If he does flip town everyone has to be looked into like Obzy said unless they are confirmed town by a cops reads.
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Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 08 2013 01:19 GMT
#1661
I am the cop, I check Odin last night, he was guilty.

Day 1 Check: OWB - Guilty
Day 2 Check: Cake - Innocent
Day 3 Check Odin - Guily

gg guys

##Vote OdinOfPergo
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 08 2013 01:22 GMT
#1663
Its sorta obvious that I am cop after I went from Null read on OWB to going hard on him start of Day 2

even If I am lying you lynch my right away so you win
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 08 2013 01:53 GMT
#1666
From what I've read from guides, read the people you have nuetralish/not strong reads on to get a better opinion on them so thats what I did
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 08 2013 03:15 GMT
#1680
My QT with Grey http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/h8hVyvTCTZgNA

most of it is just talking to myself which helped me a lot seeing my thoughts and ideas on paper
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 08 2013 03:18 GMT
#1682
I am just really fucking happy Storr wasnt mafia, If he was a scum pair with OWB and called him out to make him look better I would have prob lost us the game
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
Vonthin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2864 Posts
November 08 2013 06:33 GMT
#1714
I thought Storr did fine though not sure my opinion is that valid since this is only my second mafia game, a little over aggro at times but I saw the meaning behind some of his posts and they didn't seem like something mafia would say, knowing OWB was scum helped in deciding he was town too but I still don't think I woulda been ok with his lynch, I just wouldn't have defended him so much incase he was mafia it woulda made me look rly bad. His day 1 wasn't that strong like mine, I think if you gave more reads on people d1 you woulda been less suspicious in the following days.
Best Trashcan NA - LoL Summoner. SKT / CLG / Liquid
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