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hzflank
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On October 31 2013 12:37 Grackaroni wrote: Those are some pretty good odds. I'm not against RNG if people are up for it. I would think my chances of actually identifying scum on day one are less than 31%, therefore RNG would yield better results for me. Ofcourse, We would need to decide on who rolls the dice. How should we do that? I suggest we vote on it. | ||
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On October 31 2013 12:05 Asinine wrote: Why label Stutters as town As a conversation starter. Up until that point only little blue men were being discussed and I am unable to partake in that discussion to to my unfamiliarity with big green or red men. Obviously I did not think that Stutters' post gave a clue to his alignment, but I may not of conveyed the tone correctly. On October 31 2013 12:05 Asinine wrote: and leave the thread? Due to Stutters reply. As you begin to read his post he appears to care about what I said, then when you get to the end I realised that he does not care. There was no reason to continue that line of conversation with him and I had nothing that I wanted to post, so I decided to spare the poor tl.net servers the effort of adding another one of my posts for a short while. On October 31 2013 12:05 Asinine wrote: Your post serves no greater purpose other than to gain Stutters' support. But my post gave you something to post about and in turn gave me something to post about. Now I can wonder why you commented on my post twice even though that you thought my post had no purpose. You might be mafia looking for something to post about, but obviously this early in the game there is no real need for that. You may be town attempting to move a conversation forward. Or perhaps you genuinely thought I had a clue as to Stutter's alignment two hours into the game when only five people had posted, and felt the need to call me out on that. Either of those possibilities fit in with your second post. On October 31 2013 12:07 Asinine wrote: Looks like he didn't even gain Stutters support... Regardless, hzflank does not look good right now. The (rhetorical) question is: did you post that for the sake of posting something? Or did you post that hoping that I would reply directly to you? Or did you post that because when you were reading the thread for the first time you were already looking for scum, and my post was the only thing so far that looked like it might be scum? I have no flipping idea, but less than five hours into the game and when I am tired, that's the best that I can do at the moment. On October 31 2013 10:17 Stutters695 wrote: Why so srs? Oh, you wanted me to be less serious? Oops  | ||
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I guess we can all stop posting for the next 45 hours. | ||
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On October 31 2013 22:00 JarJarDrinks wrote: if I'm scum and someone talks about random lynching my first thought is probably something like "Oh god, what if one of us gets chosen? There'd be nothing we could do." Yet the post of mine that you quoted shows clearly that my first thought on random lynching was: “But what if scum decides the supposedly random number?”. Also, I did not actually advocate a random lynch. I thought it would be pretty obvious that I was against a random lynch when I said that we should all just stop posting for 45 hours (because if we do not have to vote on a lynch then we don't get the good discussion). On October 31 2013 23:01 JarJarDrinks wrote: Seemed like there's a decent amount of support for a hzflank lynch Why is that relevant to your vote? Would you not have voted for me if there seemed to be no support for it? | ||
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On November 01 2013 01:44 JarJarDrinks wrote: Is this a fact? The best stat I found in a quick look is that in a normal mini game, town gets lynched 78% of the time on day one. Considering that in a normal game around 75% of players are town, that does not surprise me. | ||
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On October 31 2013 22:00 JarJarDrinks wrote: First off I'll add my name to the very much against random lynching list for the exact reasons Oats posted. On October 31 2013 13:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Random lynching is bad and lets not do it. If we hit scum, great, but then what do we do on day 2? If we hit town, fuck, but then what do we do on day 2? On October 31 2013 22:00 JarJarDrinks wrote: hzflank because he only said he was for it On October 31 2013 13:19 hzflank wrote: 20103741 mod 14 = 7 = Pandain. I guess we can all stop posting for the next 45 hours. The most obvious thing to take from that is that my meaning was not clear enough. But that is not useful. The useful thing is the old: was he looking for scum of looking for someone to call scum? My initial reaction was that he was town looking for scum. If he thought that my longer post was scummy then there would always be some confirmation bias, so he might of missed the fact that I was against a random lynch. The problem with that is that he never goes into detail about why my longer post was scummy. He only mentions it briefly: On October 31 2013 23:08 JarJarDrinks wrote: Yeah. Other people pointed out stuff that didn't look for him good either Therefore I must conclude that JJD actually thinks exactly what he said here: On October 31 2013 22:00 JarJarDrinks wrote: First off I'll add my name to the very much against random lynching...I'm suspicious of the people pushing for it. And we arrive at the problem that I was not in fact one of the people pushing for a random lynch, which makes everything that JJD said (regarding myself) rather arbitrary. I cannot get any reads from talk of rng or policy lynching, which means I cannot get a better read on JJD at this time until the discussion moves on a bit. I am very aware that scum may just be lurking at this point while town goes after eachother. | ||
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On November 01 2013 02:34 JarJarDrinks wrote: How could anyone read this post and not think you were for random lynching? Because the whole point of that was that I did not like the idea of random lynching because I was worried that scum might control the random. | ||
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On November 01 2013 03:03 JarJarDrinks wrote: If that was your stance then what was the point of suggesting that we vote for someone to pick the random person? I suggested that we vote for someone so that we do not have to vote for someone. That is not a serious suggestion, that is me saying that I want to vote and not rng. | ||
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On November 01 2013 05:25 Asinine wrote: An answer or a response to this post: … I did not think that you wanted a direct reply to that, as your post was fairly closed and based on an assumption into the meaning of my initial post to Stutters. On October 31 2013 13:31 Asinine wrote: It is quite apparent that you were trying to bait Stutters into posting. This is not what I take issue with. My issue is that your first post is stated as a fact and an imperative. In other words, you are essentially saying that Stutters should post -- when he doesn't have to -- and you will automatically consider him town. Now this may not be what you wanted to say, but it is exactly what it sounds like you are saying to any third-party. "Come out to play, Stutters! If you post a lot, I won't think you're scum." I really did not put that much thought into that one liner to Stutters. Stutters posting a lot will not make me think that he is town. I should also say that it was not meant offensively (towards Stutters) as I am not sure now as to whether I offended him. You said yourself that your interpretation may not be what I wanted to say, and it wasn't. Therefore, there is nothing that I can say about your interpretation. On October 31 2013 13:31 Asinine wrote: I don't see much town motivation in this strategy. Yes, you may get Stutters to post a little more. This, in theory, should give you town cred. However, you are quite clearly choosing one of the most obvious lynchbait targets to talk about on Day 1. Additionally, after Stutters reply, you just disappear with no follow-up. I am going to assume that you mean town cred with you rather than that I was fishing for town cred. In which case, I have no idea why you consider Stutters to be one of the most obvious lynchbait targets. Why is this? Also, there was no reason for you to expect that I would only want to talk about a single person on day one. As I have posted previously, Stutters reply made it seem that the best thing to do would be to wait a couple of hours and see who else posted on the subject. On October 31 2013 13:31 Asinine wrote: When you return, you make a lengthy post that focuses on defending yourself. There is a wishy-washy accusation towards me, but it is weak and unsubstantiated. I made a lengthy post as talk of policy is not my preferred discussion material. Other people might like policy talk but I was hoping to generate something different, which is why I turned some short quotes into a longer post. There was no wishy washy accusation towards you. I was attempting to find out the perspective from which you wrote your posts. If anything my post ended favourably towards you, when I posted this: On October 31 2013 12:53 hzflank wrote: Or did you post that because when you were reading the thread for the first time you were already looking for scum, and my post was the only thing so far that looked like it might be scum? You seem to think that it is wrong for me to question whether or not you might be scum. The fact is that I am going to question that for as long as we are both in the game. On October 31 2013 13:31 Asinine wrote: You are also strong-arming Stutters to play a particular way that could make his meta harder to read in the long run. I was not attempting to strong arm Stutters and it is a very big stretch for my post (below) to be considered as such. On October 31 2013 09:31 hzflank wrote: Stutters posting when he does not have to is a town Stutters. The most important part of your post is the claim that my motivation was anti-town because I picked on someone who is lynchbait. Personally, I would not call what I posted picking on anyone. Also, I would not call Stutters lynchbait. Therefore, I don't think that there was any anti-town motivation involved. I simply prodded someone and waited to see what happened. | ||
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At the moment I would have to say that I want to lynch LaughingJack. This is based on a single sentence that jumped out at me when I read it. On November 01 2013 03:25 Laughing Jack wrote: And that was because you didn't type it with any conclusion in mind. To me, if someone does not have a conclusion in mind when they start a post it is because they are lacking either information or motivation. This makes them more likely to be town. LaughingJack thinks that makes someone more likely to be scum. Therefore, I would say that LaughingJack did have a conclusion in mind when he wrote that post, which is that he wanted to call JJD scum. | ||
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On November 01 2013 03:09 mkfuba07 wrote: the apparent inconsistency in his position is the most concerning thing to me, though I'm not even sure there is one. You say that you are not sure whether the most concerning thing actually exists. On November 01 2013 03:09 mkfuba07 wrote: I agree with jjd that he appears to be supporting it in one post, then the next one appears to be agreeing with the first. However, I guess it could be interpreted the way hzflank says he meant it, so overall that just makes me lean slight scum on him. Altogether, I feel pretty confident with a vote on hzflank. You feel pretty confident with a vote on someone that you only lean slightly scum on. I would say that you decided on where to park your vote before you decided on the reasons for it. ##vote: mkfuba07 | ||
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On November 01 2013 12:30 Grackaroni wrote: I see JJD as very likely town. I see you jumping on lynch bait because JJD said that thing about others also supporting a hzflank lynch. I think it makes you scummy. That's about as far as it goes for me right now. maybe Pandain can elaborate on whatever he was saying. For me that does not make Oats scum. I almost called JJD scum for the same reason that Oats did, and the only thing that stopped me was the realization that JJD would have to have balls of steel to post what he did as scum. I can't criticize Oats for not thinking about JJD's balls. | ||
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On November 01 2013 23:52 Mig wrote: hzflank besides mkfuba who are you suspicious of? What do you think about Oats/grack/myself? They are easy targets, but I think the fact that Odin and Poofter and actively playing another game but are absent in this one is suspicious. If they don't get involved then I will certainly consider voting for them. I don't want to vote for Oats today. The main point against Oats is that he is so good that he should of read a statement as too scummy to be scum. This holds absolutely no weight for me, as with an experienced player like Oats it has nothing to do with how good he is at spotting scum, but instead is based on what sort of thing looks scummy to Oats. I can believe that Oats genuinely thought that JJD was scum when he did. I don't want to vote for Grack either. In a slow game such as this there is no real need for scum to post as much as Grack has. I have minor disagreements with some of Grack's points but that does not make him scum. On the initial read I obviously did not like your (Mig's) first post as I did not agree with either point. Initially I thought that those points were from scum looking for something to post about (particularly due to the timing), but upon further consideration I could see how they could be genuine. Your prod towards Poofter put me slightly at ease, as it showed that you were at least following thoroughly (Poofter was the right person to make that comment towards at the time of the post). Your last post then makes me think that you are probably scum, for the same reason that I think Fuba is scum. On November 01 2013 23:52 Mig wrote: The evidence against hzflank is unquestionably circumstantial but that being said it is still better than anything else I have seen. His point against mkfuba is solid enough In one sentence you say that the evidence against me is circumstantial and that my point against mkfuba is solid. Yet in that same sentence you also say that the evidence against me is the best that you have seen so far. Therefore, you are acting as if you believe that circumstantial is better than solid. There are only two reasons that you would do that. Either your play is slightly dictated by the fact that you want your initial read to be correct, or you are scum. I think that scum is more likely. Still, you have posted more than Fuba and we are in a game with several lurkers. That is not really enough to make me move my vote from Fuba to you, at the moment. | ||
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On November 01 2013 17:41 Laughing Jack wrote: And I'm starting to think Oats will be a good lynch for today. | ||
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On November 02 2013 02:14 Grackaroni wrote: He said it because Oats ignored his question. LJ and Oats both though that JJD was scum for a similar reason. You thought that Oats was scum because as a good player he should not think JJD is scum. I think we can assume that LJ is also an experienced player. Therefore, I would think that LJ would disagree with your reasons for thinking that Oats is scum. In fact, LJ should of thought your reasons pretty bad. It's a bit odd that Oats would become his preferred lynch just because he once refused to answer some questions. I was hoping for additional reasoning. | ||
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Odin and hermeane are in danger of being modkilled, so no point in voting for them at this time. There must be at least some scum lurking. I find it hard to believe that we have so many town lurkers. | ||
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I do not quite see the reason from going from wanting to lynch LJ to wanting to lynch JJD. | ||
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On November 02 2013 05:44 Stutters695 wrote: Hz I'm phone posting, do you happen to remember any games we've played together in? I know we have but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Titanic. | ||
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Anyway, your point on the second paragraph makes sense when you put it like that. You are saying that part is not really relevant to why you think that I am scum. As for me being non-committal, I am not sure that I want to answer that... I am not surprised that you fin that scummy because that seems to be a bit of a trend around here. I personally think quite the opposite, it's harder for town to commit on day 1 because they have none of the information and scum have it all. It's easy for scum to push hard until it gets close to vote time, and then slowly let up. But whatever, I am not going to change your mind on that. So, apart from myself, what are your other reads? | ||
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On November 02 2013 06:07 Stutters695 wrote: Why haven't you been pushing and asking questions this game? I struggled to start caring about it, and then when I got into it the only active posters were people whom I did not want to push. Hopefully I will get a bit more involved soon, but don't expect Titanic levels of posting from me, as I went over the top on that one. On November 02 2013 06:07 Stutters695 wrote: Also, what is your most recent scum game? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227 | ||
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So who do you actually want to lynch? | ||
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On November 02 2013 06:54 Mig wrote: This combined with my earlier read on him is enough for my vote. But you previously decided that you would vote for me, anyway. On November 02 2013 06:37 Mig wrote: I will add if hz is red I would probably go for Oats next Anyway, you claim to have read my previous games and that I was confident and made cases as town, but not as scum. The fact is that I was pretty damn dominating in that scum game that I linked. I made large cases and pushed them hard. I was so confident that right before the SK took me out I made a huge case on someone with a lot of town cred because I thought he was the SK and thought I could push the lynch through hard over the next 48 hours. Your points are rubbish. Whatever reasons you have for voting for me and not the reasons that you state. | ||
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What is your current opinion on Pandain? | ||
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Just imagine that I am Town for a moment, though. Pandain suddenly comes back to the game when he is leading the vote, and then there are three votes in quick succession that make Fuba the vote leader. There was initially only one vote on Fuba and at least two on me, with Mig signalling that he would also vote for me. Now, if Pandain were scum in panic mode then he could have just voted for me. Instead, he voted for Fuba and then Grack and Odin also voted for Fuba. It makes no sense for Scum Pandain to do that if I am town. Therefore, I personally cannot vote for Pandain at this time. Since the other two people with votes on them are Fuba and myself, my vote obviously has to stay on Fuba. | ||
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On November 02 2013 08:08 Asinine wrote: I will do so post-lynch. Right now, our primary lynch targets are fuba and hzflank. If we're deciding between these two, then my goal right now should be to convince town that hzflank is the better lynch. Why are there only two lynch targets, to you? | ||
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It doesn't matter I suppose, your position is that you want me lynched so there might as well be only one target. | ||
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On another note, anyone have any questions for me? | ||
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Later you said that you wanted a response, so I provided it. | ||
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On November 02 2013 08:26 Stutters695 wrote: I'm back, gonna try to catch up but I skimmed that newbie game and I think Hz's play resembles that over Titanic and I'm willing to take a shot on it. ##vote: Hzflank How exactly? provide some detail. In that newbie game on day one, my newbie scumbuddy was in the headlights so I made a long and artificial case on someone else, while coaxing suspicion onto a third party to ensure the scum player was completely ignore. To do that I had to be very involved a long way out from the deadline, and less involved as the deadline approached (so that the guy I pushed did not get lynched). My play in this game has been nothing like that. | ||
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Jesus, this is madness. You have do be damn sure that I am scum to vote for me over fuba at this point. | ||
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On November 02 2013 08:46 Asinine wrote: @hzflank Let's assume you are town for a moment. How would you lynch as of right now? If I could lynch anyone, probably Jack, although I don't have time to explain it fully now. You or Stutters would do, also. Obviously if it means saving myself I would lynch fuba because from my viewpoint there is more chance of him being scum than me. | ||
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GJ team. | ||
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On November 02 2013 09:03 Asinine wrote: I want to lynch Stutters tomorrow. I'm putting hzflank on the backburner until we lynch this guy. You will put the guy who was almost lynched instead of the scum on the backburner, while you lynch the guy who dropped the hammer on the scum? | ||
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On November 02 2013 09:02 Pandain wrote: OH MY GOD I DID IT OH MY GOD If Panda's were not so bad at sex... | ||
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On November 02 2013 09:09 Asinine wrote: Check again, Stutter's vote was extraneous and was only placed after it was obvious that fuba would die. Nah, Stutters was the 6th vote and I was the first to 5 votes. At the moment that Stutters voted he moved my head off of the block and place fuba's there. | ||
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Then, when mkfuba is leading the votes 4-3, he just phoneposts (presumably) to move his vote onto me, allowing someone else (Stutters in this case) to drop the hammer. I want to lynch Jack. | ||
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 So...Mig, still think that I am scum? Anything else to share with us? | ||
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After reading through the game I don't want to lynch Oats at this time. I can understand where he is coming from throughout the thread. Same with Bereft, except that I don't understand why Bereft did not move his vote (and he obviously have less posts). It could just be because he was afk, though. I don't actually want to lynch Odin or Tehpoofter either. They did not need to vote on Fuba at the time that they did. And to be honest, considering that Fuba was afk this game he came very close to surviving. Now, you might say that was because I played badly in D1, but I am of the opinion that it was because there was scum activly trying to save mkfuba. That basically leaves all the people who voted for me as the people that I think are scum at the moment. I realize that it is unlikely to end up that simple, but they are the people who are currently want to lynch. I should probably post about then one by one... | ||
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In hindsight his first few posts are bad. I thought that they were fine at the time, but after I made that lengthy post in response to them he really flew off the handle. I did not even think that he was scummy at the time, and considering that he is an experienced player the logical reason for him to react so strongly to me was to get things moving in the game. He then ended up tunnelling me throughout the day. Due to the accounts low post count it is easy to subconsciously think of him as an inexperienced player, but we do not know that. An experienced player should be more aware of when they are tunnelling. The thing that I want to stress: During D1, I was the only person that Asinine every called scum or was ever interested in lynching The only exception is this post: On November 02 2013 08:39 Asinine wrote: I don't lynch by post count. I lynch by scumminess. If that's the best argument you've got to defend hzflank, then I rest my case. I am also not tunneled. Had the lynch been between Odin and fuba, I may very well choose fuba to lynch. Fuba isn't exactly a shining beacon of towniness. However, hzflank is the most likely to flip scum. He also calls Fuba scum, but then considering how hard he pushed to save Fuba I don't think that is relevent. | ||
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On November 02 2013 12:49 JarJarDrinks wrote: ANd how is Jack on that list? Typo, he meant you. | ||
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Mig appears to actually be scumhunting, I just don't agree with the results of it or with his vote on me. Mig decided that I was scum quite quickly and long before he voted for me. His last post was hypocritical. On November 02 2013 06:54 Mig wrote: I read through hzflank's titanic and newbie XLIV mafia games. This game seems so much more like his mafia play from XLIV. In Titanic all his posting was confident and he had no qualms pushing his reads and making cases. In XLIV he was much more wishy-washy. This game he has been incredibly wishy-washy. He makes 1 post voting for Fuba then doesn't push him at all. Telling JJ to vote for tehpoofter instead of fuba who has lurked almost the exact same amount also sits wrong with me. Why wouldn't you recommend that fuba be voted for if you actually lean scum on him and he has virtually the same amount of posts? You don't seem to actually care that we vote for scum. This combined with my earlier read on him is enough for my vote. ##Vote hzflank I will say though fuba has also been totally useless and his one post coming back to the game didn't make him look any better. I have to go now but I will try to be back 30 min before lynch to check what is going on (no promises tho). One of the main reasons that Mig votes for me is because I am wishy washy, which is true and I wont claim that I ever pushed a lynch on mkfuba (I got lucky). Mig ends that post with a disclaimer though, which is as wishy-washy as it gets. You only make a disclaimer like that if you are hoping to be called out on it, right? Well... The other thing was how he paid special attention to a lynchbait post that I made. Why is he calling me out for a lynchbait post in the same post that he is posting obvious bait? Did he not know that he was posting bait? In which case that disclaimer makes him look like scum. | ||
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I am too tired to pay Jack the attention that he deserves, so we will converse tomorrow. | ||
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That applies to Mig too. Ofcourse you can consider that perhaps they are players who rely more on their ability to read people than on any strategy, but a D1 anti-town vote is still a black mark. | ||
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On November 02 2013 19:40 Laughing Jack wrote: I voted hzflank over fuba because of all the lurkers coming back and bandwagoning fuba felt really strange and scum-driven. I really did not expect mkfuba to flip scum after seeing that. I'm glad he did though. You went from: Wanting to lynch me for information, to Wanting to lynch a lurker, to the above. At the time of your vote there were four people on mkfuba: myself, Pandain, Grack and Odin. Obviously Grack and myself were not lurkers, so the bandwagoning lurkers that you refer to must be Pandain and Odin. At that time, there were three votes on me (Mkfuba, Asinine and Mig) and three votes on Pandain (Bereft, Oats and JJD). Now, if you wanted to lynch a lurker and you thought that Pandain's vote was scum-driven, why did you vote for me as opposed to Pandain? | ||
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On November 03 2013 03:44 Pandain wrote: The problem is bus reasons were pretty crappy to defend asinine. His reasons for you were bordering okay but again scum can be reasonable. I don't like how all his posts are to save Fuba and then he just gives up when it became obvious I think it was fair to say that he was hard-(directly) defending Fuba rather than directly attacking me. I have seen town hard-defend other town day one, so I am sure that town can accidentally hard-defend scum on day one, but for a lurker? Asinine did not even think that Fuba was town. To put it very simply: Asinine hard-defended a lurker who he thought was scum. That is anti-town play. Is there anyone here who would honestly do that as town? | ||
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On November 02 2013 07:17 Asinine wrote: I'm still unimpressed with hzflank. His filter reeks of careful posturing which is reminiscent of standard scum play. Pursuing hzflank directly isn't netting immediate results because his posting is so meticulously crafted. However, I'll be leaving my vote on him if I cannot find any more convincing candidates. I'll filter a few other players. Be back soon. Why is it important as to whether or not he saw Odin's vote before he posted? Asinine was casual in that post. He wanted to lynch me but he was also going to look for other candidates. Almost nothing happened in the thread for the next 32 minutes. Then Asinine makes his next post, which is his detailed case in defence of mkfuba. What happened to make Asinine go from being casual and looking into other people to writing up a case in defence of mkfuba? Well it has to be Odin's vote. So maybe you think: well Asinine really wanted hzflank to be lynched, so Odin's vote spooked him?...Nope. Before Odin voted Pandain was set to be lynched. So why did Odin's vote spook Asinine? In my opinion it is because Asinine is scum. | ||
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hzflank
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On November 03 2013 05:08 Pandain wrote: Oh what wow. That changes everything. Also do not forget the white flag mechanic. I would avoid thinking too much about the replacement at the moment. There is nothing we can do about that yet. | ||
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hzflank
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hzflank
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Best to play as if there are no power roles, for the moment. | ||
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So I should not of doctored Asinine? | ||
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hzflank
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On November 03 2013 06:45 Pandain wrote: Asinine are you thinking about claiming your real ID since it will help town decide whether or not to lynch you, since you will likely be lynched. I will take a stab at Aquanim. Although I am even worse at finding smurfs than I am at finding scum, and I only actually know a dozen or so players anyway. | ||
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hzflank
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It was a joke. That's what I do sometimes to signal that I am lurking in the thread in case anyone wants to ask me anything. | ||
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It's good that we are thinking on similar lines, which should make me lean town. But his reasoning does not seem original to me so I cannot actually read into it. Ofcourse I cannot really expect all reasoning to be original based on the content that we have. Null on that. | ||
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hzflank
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The big post is good for the purpose of making your position clear, I just cannot read you from it. | ||
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i kind of feel bad for mafia. Fuba was afk at a crucial time, and Grack made a good shot. | ||
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hzflank
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On November 05 2013 13:11 Stutters695 wrote: Sorry Hz for tunneling you so hardcore. After Hogwarts I wanted to work on my proactive-ness, especially on d1 and in working on it still. lol, my day one play was reasonably scummy. I didn't really get motivated until after the lynch. I think the thing to take away from it is just that sometimes you have to make a tactical decision. If mkfuba was active and/or we had a more active town then voting for me would not of been a terrible decision. As it was, the best thing for the town was not to lynch me. | ||
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