• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:19
CET 15:19
KST 23:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners7Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!30$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship5[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1839 users

"##" Mafia - Page 7

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 25 Next All
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 13:46 GMT
#1004
On October 29 2013 22:44 Promethelax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2013 22:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
On October 29 2013 22:39 Promethelax wrote:
is true. I do a lot of dumb shit and say a lot of dumb shit, I just happen to also be a lot better than most people on tl.

hey hey. Im sure you arent referring to me. Right?


I'm a lot better than you. But only because I take my pants off of my head sometimes.

Rayn: what does it say about OOH. You liked that one post, so does that mean you think he is town? How do you read his choice to refuse to talk to the more powerful townie voices in the thread i.e. me and marv.

I don't think that's alignment indicative. Why would he, as scum, openly refuse to do so? If he continues doing it he will get lynched for it. It makes as little sense for him to do as scum than it does as town. I am more interested in hearing why he finds marv & Koshi scummy.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 13:56 GMT
#1017
On October 29 2013 22:51 Promethelax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2013 22:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On October 29 2013 22:44 Promethelax wrote:
On October 29 2013 22:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
On October 29 2013 22:39 Promethelax wrote:
is true. I do a lot of dumb shit and say a lot of dumb shit, I just happen to also be a lot better than most people on tl.

hey hey. Im sure you arent referring to me. Right?


I'm a lot better than you. But only because I take my pants off of my head sometimes.

Rayn: what does it say about OOH. You liked that one post, so does that mean you think he is town? How do you read his choice to refuse to talk to the more powerful townie voices in the thread i.e. me and marv.

I don't think that's alignment indicative. Why would he, as scum, openly refuse to do so? If he continues doing it he will get lynched for it. It makes as little sense for him to do as scum than it does as town. I am more interested in hearing why he finds marv & Koshi scummy.


Because he clearly isn't getting lynched on it today. If I had the ability to refuse to speak to the most powerful townies in the game and claim it is modkillable for me to respond to them I'd do it every time.

He clearly has no real reasons for thinking they are scum. Look at what he just posted. Jesus.

Yeah but you do not make enemies as scum if you don't have to. Especially in a way he did. It doesn't matter if he gets lynched for it today, as there are other scum alive. You know, people look back later on in the game and if he doesn't change his attitude soon it will haunt him later on (although lately TL towns tend to be forgetting the power of rereading). I agree what he said about marv especially is really bad and if i knew he was a smurf i would lynch him instantly.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 14:02 GMT
#1028
OOHCHILD: Regarding marv, Clarity, and his case against Oats which is a main reason people are voting for him.

This is (as you should know) a game where the most important thing is not what people say but why they say what they do and what they should be saying and what they do not say when they should.

If there is a monkey in a lion cage you can't just expect it to be a lion and act like a lion just because it's a lion cage.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 14:02 GMT
#1029
On October 29 2013 23:00 OOHCHILD wrote:
Marvel, you yourself admitted that Oatsmaster is playing more town this game. What if Clarity reads the behavior you read as more town, conversely, as more SCUM.

Then he should say so. Which he hasn't.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 14:07 GMT
#1038
Hey Clarity, you are going nowhere good place atm. You already said you don't necessarily believe in your Oats case as much as you said earlier on. Who do you want to lynch? You have given zero scumreads atm and that doesn't help you.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 14:07 GMT
#1040
On October 29 2013 23:06 Clarity_nl wrote:
No OOHCHILD it's because you're coming up with scenarios where I'm town when if that scenario were true I would just say so
Like, it's like you're making up excuses for me, it's odd.

Stop defending and find scum. It's the only way you are not getting lynched today tbh.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 14:11 GMT
#1046
On October 29 2013 23:08 OOHCHILD wrote:
Ray, how he can make cases if he has not read anything?

That's my point. He should be doing that if he is town instead of answering people here.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 14:14 GMT
#1056
##Update Koshi
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 14:15 GMT
#1058
On October 29 2013 23:11 Koshi wrote:
Ok, because rayn didn't make a case on Pandain and don't thinks he is scum I made the case. It's made for rayn but it's why I think Pandain is scummy.

What does this mean?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 14:17 GMT
#1062
On October 29 2013 23:16 OOHCHILD wrote:
I'm not a smurf but I'm also not new to this game.

If I were mafia why would I try to clear the only alternate bandwagon?

Hey are you from the Championship game? If so, who?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 14:32 GMT
#1078
Koshi:

This is what Pandain's town play looks like:
Q/A, Q/A, Q/A, Q/A, summarization of his reads, Q/A, Q/A, Q/A, Q/A, summarization, maybe some sort of a case, repeat.

This is what Pandain's scum play looks like:
stuff, some weak reads, stuff, stuff, a case on someone, stuff, some defences against thread sentiment (usually on townies), soft buss, stuff, stuff, stuff, defence.. repeat from after the "a case on someone".

At some point that falls apart because he busses so much. When Pandain busses he does not really intend to lynch his scumbuddies. He does also defend a lot of people just for the sake of defending. You catch him when he has bussed someone and when they are up for a lynch he suddenly doesn't want to lynch them anymore (see Thug life and Palmar).
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 15:07 GMT
#1132
On October 30 2013 00:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Oats looks a lot less dickish than the scum games I've played with him

This is so bad because he looks less dickish than he is in his town games aswell and he is less dickish as scum in general.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 15:19 GMT
#1141
On October 30 2013 00:13 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2013 00:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On October 30 2013 00:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Oats looks a lot less dickish than the scum games I've played with him

This is so bad because he looks less dickish than he is in his town games aswell and he is less dickish as scum in general.

Could you push something please? Thanks. Don't like that you're kinda spectating all this.

I am getting to that soon. I gotta eat first. But i want to lynch WoS or Sentinel, don't know which one yet.
Dick move analysis say Clarity is town and i do not like OOHCHILD lynch at all. Based mainly on his self-suicidal behavior and the fact that when i said "i could lynch OOH just because" earlier on, suddenly some people voted for him with zero reasoning. Those votes would have been easy for scum to call out people for in case OOH was scum but nobody did do anything about it.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 15:43 GMT
#1168
This is why WaveofShadow is scum.

I did not like how he was trying to "promote" his Prome case and "prove he is town in these posts:
On October 28 2013 14:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2013 14:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 28 2013 14:16 Promethelax wrote:
Oats there is no case.

WoS had two points,
1) the powering thing, already addressed.
2) meta on him but not pandain, I've played with WoS before but not pandain.

Oh look, entire case refuted.

Yeah, no Prome.
First, the section Oats outlined.
Second, I know how you play. You fucking meta the absolute fuck out of everybody in most games. Why are you halting at Pandain now? You say I 'liked' town? When I had played with you last that was all I had played. Period. If anything I remember bitching about still not having rolled scum yet.

Third, the policy lynch discussion---who did you have in mind in your first post when you discussed people randomly powering people up without reasoning?

And just like Palmar in Thug Life I will point out: you are basing a meta read of me on something that is months old and you are missing out on half my mafia career with that read. That seems like a terrible meta read Prome.
Are you terrible?

Palmar wasn't terrible when I called him out for that.

He was scum.

Justifying someone is scum because of what [i]someone else did in some other game.
On October 28 2013 14:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2013 14:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
Man all the time this happens to me, I jump on a townie being scummy to me and scum jumps right on after.
Not that Prome is town and WoS is scum, just that WoS is way more likely to be scum if Prome is town.

Do you think as scum I would be likely to attack a town Prom as my primary mislynch target?

Prom is there a reason you don't feel like talking to me and instead feel the need to graze over my questions with Oats instead? Am I bothering you?

"Would i do this as scum? No, i must be town."

After his Promethelax case he has been really insecure in his reads and in everything he says. I sense fear because marvellosity conveniently shut down the case. WoS never commented on marv's town case on Prome at first, yet kept his vote on Prome and tried instead defend his own case. In case he thought Prome was scum and wanted to lynch him he should have pointed where marv was wrong on his town read on Prome.

After that these posts of his are really bad and only strengthen my observations of him being too insecure to be town.
On October 29 2013 03:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2013 02:57 marvellosity wrote:
On October 29 2013 02:55 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 29 2013 02:47 marvellosity wrote:
Well, I was/am finding Koshi somewhat scummy, so I thought I'd browse his most recent scumgame. And voila ^_^

For your Prome question, I'm kinda inclined to think he was just being bad. Like meh, seems a dumb thing to push if you're mafia, because it's so easy to pick holes in (witness what happened)

But he didn't push it, which was the problem I originally had. He gave early scumreads and then didn't bother pursuing (aside from questioning Rayn regarding early powerup enabling, and he thinks Koshi is scum for similar).

So what's the point? This is kinda nitpicky and I don't get where you're going with it. So he says it, it's dumb, you prove him wrong. I'm struggling to make that lean one way or another.

I'm not going anywhere with it anymore. I just wanted to know your thoughts on it because you never really commented one way or the other since Prome and me had it out while you were gone. It's just funny you say it's a dumb thing to push if he's mafia, but the fact remained that he didn't push it at all---maybe for exactly the reason you just stated. In any case i still have to look over your read on him before coming to a final decision about him and I get the feeling I'll be removing my vote....in which case I have to find someone new.

I'm not so sure Clarity is a useful target atm despite looking fairly scummy---I'd probably want to hear more from him first. I also don't give SnB's entry nearly as many points. Koshi mabes? He seems to be a popular choice as of late.

Insecurity. Like i said earlier, he is not scumhunting, he is basically asking people who is scum. He is not trying to find out who is scum by himself.
On October 29 2013 03:13 WaveofShadow wrote:
It'll be interesting to see a game in which Koshi and Rayn aren't all up in each other's butts, to be sure.
Regarding Clarity, maybe it's just a lack of confidence in my Ver-fu (even though I have had 'insta-scum' moments from single posts) but to me the disconnect you're voting him on (ie Clarity knows better than this) doesn't seem as strong to me. I've seen Clarity play and I actually could see him believing in his case despite us seeing otherwise because Oats is a lot of different things to a lot of people. That being said his case/posting is still shit, but I could see it being possible town-shit.

This is softly casting doubt on me and Koshi for something we should in his opinion be doing if we were town. Instead of trying to figure out our alignments he just makes a shitty comment like this and does not follow up it with questioning or making any conclusions from it.

Later on he unvotes Prome (because of what marv said - the thing he didn't comment on earlier at all, despite me pointing it out) and votes for someone he doesn't even think is scum!

Too weak to be town Wave.
##Unvote:
##Vote: WaveofShadow
[/b]
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 15:51 GMT
#1181
On October 30 2013 00:46 marvellosity wrote:
rayn, your sense of timing is excellent. I'm going to go along with that.

##Vote: WaveofShadow

Problem for me atm is that if I accept OOH and Clarity aren't mafia, then some of my reads elsewhere are kinda off.

Well OOH could be mafia, but that's for another day. I think he is from the latest Champs game because of his unwillingness of participating fully on D1 and his use of "clear" instead of "defend". These guys who play werevolf clear people instead of defending.

I am not confident on him being scum, too few info.

Also Pandain lynch is bad. If neither of me and Vayne thinks he is scum he probably hasn't done anything scummy. If you want a reference look at Thug life. When Noir ended me and Vayne instantly go "Pandain is 100% scum". If he is scum he is able to fake his towniness until some point but that will fall apart. Not a good lynch for today.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 15:52 GMT
#1183
On October 30 2013 00:50 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2013 00:50 Seuss wrote:
My one big qualm with rayn's argument is that he overthinks Wave's OOHCHILD vote. There were several of us on that train, and the primary reason behind it was policy/pressure. I don't think any of us expected to keep our votes there, up until OOHCHILD actually started posting up a storm.

Yeah, but everyone else has done something since. You're actually supporting the argument here :/

That's basically the point. He just dropped the vote there when he had argued about other stuff (mainly me and Koshi connections) just before.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 15:54 GMT
#1186
Also OOHCHILD could you even tell if you are from the Championship game or not?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 15:56 GMT
#1189
On October 30 2013 00:52 marvellosity wrote:
rayn what does Koshi forgetting Pandain mean?

I dunno. I am not interested in Koshi at the moment because his reads post and the "sheep marv and rayn + some people have some qualities" post were pure town Koshi. Probably has something to do with him listening to us and looking into people we are.

Maybe Koshi can explain?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 16:06 GMT
#1197
On October 30 2013 01:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lol SnB just claimed scum.

Can we lynch SnB guys?
##unvote
##vote SnB

Elaborate please.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 29 2013 16:22 GMT
#1206
Prome you say some stufdf that i can't understand. this:
In nine minutes WoS looked through all my games. Nine minutes for him to realize he was full of shit. Or he knew it from the beginning. WoS was full of shit from the beginning. WoS is scum ##logic

Where did WoS say he looked into your games? I don't understand this argument given the quotes.

And this:

I find this really weird, this is not the first time he was brought up 3p so far this game. I'd say he either is 3p or is aware of its existence.

Along with that his OOh 'placeholder' vote was the fourth vote on OOOh and he hadn't commented before at all. I don't like that particular vote. In fact, I rather like WoS as scum. Or 3p. Anti town any ways.

Aren't you basically doing the same thing you accuse WoS of here?
table for two on a tv tray
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 25 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
12:00
King of the Hill #230
WardiTV662
iHatsuTV 10
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 262
Codebar 27
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1768
Jaedong 1541
EffOrt 1014
Light 687
Mini 571
Stork 509
Larva 423
actioN 302
Snow 266
Barracks 221
[ Show more ]
hero 195
Rush 136
Leta 132
sSak 111
JYJ58
Aegong 52
sas.Sziky 45
sorry 39
zelot 34
Backho 27
Sharp 26
soO 21
Movie 20
NaDa 15
scan(afreeca) 12
HiyA 11
Bale 9
Terrorterran 6
Dota 2
qojqva2332
420jenkins189
Counter-Strike
zeus733
allub240
shoxiejesuss179
oskar91
edward64
Other Games
singsing1988
B2W.Neo671
DeMusliM367
crisheroes341
Sick318
Lowko258
Happy237
Hui .172
XcaliburYe124
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL227
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 69
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1797
• WagamamaTV340
League of Legends
• Jankos4292
• Nemesis655
Upcoming Events
LAN Event
41m
Lambo vs Harstem
FuturE vs Maplez
Scarlett vs FoxeR
Gerald vs Mixu
Zoun vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
TriGGeR vs TBD
Korean StarCraft League
12h 41m
CranKy Ducklings
19h 41m
LAN Event
1d
IPSL
1d 3h
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
1d 5h
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 19h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 21h
LAN Event
2 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
2 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.