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On September 27 2013 16:22 playerboy345 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 08:20 Zaragon wrote:This, with a quote of what I actually consider the fluffiest part I've seen from Stormtemplar: "Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads." Looking into both of them now. Rethinking my personality read on playerboy a bit and rereading him. He also seemed quite certain at the last minute that we would see a green/blue flip: On September 27 2013 06:58 playerboy345 wrote:
I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/ Possible sign of information advantage used to gain town credit, at that timing. Have a lot of rereading to do, might not get through it tonight What do you mean with fluffy? English is not my first language and I really don't understand what the hell that word has to do in that sentence >.< There were more people who didn't agree with the MLuneth lynch, in my opinion he really didn't seem all that scummy, I was expecting him to flip town which was why I was against voting him. There wasn't really a good case on him other then his posts being odd. Would love to hear from you when you're done rereading me, I'll gladly defend anything you throw at me. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 12:13 Bereft wrote:+ Show Spoiler [onlywonderboy] + owb I've read most of your LOL material. You can write and critically think. WHAT did you like about playerboy's analysis in particular? What are your opinions on the other twelve players in this game? I'm not liking the read I'm getting here. stormtemplar + Show Spoiler +some people have been throwing this guy's name around, but looking through his filter i find nothing that screams a scum tell, but at the same time, nothing particularly memorable. for now he's not ranked high in my book alright i'm fking tired and my analysis is getting shittier as it goes on. i'll need to reeval some of the filters tomorrow. here's the tl;dr: i'd lean towards wonderboy followed by baja for d2 lynch given the current situation. i didn't bother evaluating the afk'ers. blurry, i'm holding you to your promise to post! xIvanJ is a joke -- vig should just shoot him if we still have one. funny thing is now that i think about the ridiculous nature of jayte's posts, i suspect he's actually vanilla town... Thank god I'm not the only one that thinks onlywonderboy is suspicious/stormtemplar doesn't look that scummy. I was getting worried :/ I'll look into BajaBlood's filter later today. So far I'm really suspicious of onlywonderboy, his last few posts aren't that good, they add nothing to the table, he said he would post reads after rereading everything/waking up so I'm interested to see what he will provide us with. Sorry for the half-assed post, I just woke up and getting ready to go to school, will probably be able to post during the whole day.
People like to use "fluff" for long phrases that don't say much, I use "fluffy" as an adjective as a joke in Mafia games because I feel it's kinder (cute animal associations; yes, I'm weird).
Good, you fit with my town image of you again from this post, too much about you tells me "town eager to solve the game" for anything else at this point. A language quirk is enough to explain the oddity I found.
onlywonderboy, please give us something. Don't be careful. Since you're new and not sure what you should be typing or not, it's better to type more, concise thoughts about the game. People will be picking at your phrasings, but we will assume you're scum if you don't say much, don't give reads, and write constructed posts. That's how a lot of scum play.
I'd say the same to Stormtemplar by now.
And our lurkers.
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Reasonable, dulls my scum feeling of you somewhat.
I'm concerned about JonnyLaw now too. He's reading very tense to me. Worried about lurker pressure at the start--very worried very fast, I don't see the reason for that.
Joining the Stormtemplar case with very nitpicky points to substantiate his case.
Joining my case on MLuneth at the end doesn't mean anything, unfortunately, unless we would know Stormtemplar and MLuneth were both town or that someone besides heavenz was protecting Blurry.
Balla, Baja are reading neutral to me at this point.
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Also decent list and decent points. Not afraid to agree with me even under pressure about following (doesn't help you guys obviously, but it does me, knowing I'm town). I'd have expected more subtle support and diversions for him from fellow scum if he is scum. Neutral for me now.
But I will note, listing opinions on all the players is just a tool. Please don't use it as a crutch, everyone. A lot of the time it's better to phrase yourself shorter and with more focus; helps others read you. Scum can hide behind lists pretty easily by just casting slight suspicion on town and softening anything they would have found suspicious about fellow scum so it has no edge to it. Lists don't put much pressure on anyone so it lets you omit a scum buddy very easily.
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On September 28 2013 06:57 playerboy345 wrote:So I've been reading through this thread once again and I saw something that striked me as odd and wanted to post it here and hear your thoughts on it. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 03:08 Zaragon wrote:
I like the emotion in Bereft's posts, even if I can see them translate to a scum mindset. But I like Bereft as a busy townie so far.
MLuneth or Blurry IMO. Xlvanj is just a policy lynch, Jayte said something half-way decent that is non-indicative to me.
MLuneth is trying to make cases that simply contradict pro town play, as if he's against contribution or meta information and talking about "clogging up" a thread that is only 9 pages as I'm writing this. It needs more contribution, not less.
Blurry I want to see write, and give a thought process behind his first post. And input on MLuneth.
Currently,
##Vote Blurry Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 04:26 onlywonderboy wrote:
Unfortunately I have to be getting to work, so I'll miss any last minute deliberations. I'm going to have to ##Vote: Blurry. He's had plenty of time to defend himself so I'm not sure a least minute appeal would change my mind. He sorta flew under the radar for me, but people have pointed out his lack of contribution I agree it seems problematic.
@JonnyLaw I'll respond to your inquiry when I have more time. Short version is I liked that he was putting the time into profile everyone, not that I really agreed with all the analysis. "Great" might have been too strong of a word I suppose. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 04:41 Balla24 wrote:
Alright, it's been almost 3 1/2 hours since my post. Still no sign of the lurkers.
@JonnyLaw I'm not sold on stormtemplar's behavior being scummy. I would like to both hear more from you about it on why you think his posts have been scummy and also stormtemplar's defense. But at this point I'm not really reading scum from his posts besides the fact that he hasn't really shared tooo much about his reads and has just been going off of others. At least he is disagreeing with people which I like.
With that said. We are almost 2 hours from voting and none of the inactive people have shown their faces. We have been asking for them to talk for 2 days now and nothing. Now which one should we lynch? Here i'm going to have to go with ##Vote: Blurry. He started off with a good 1st day post (very early in the game mind you), and then nothing for 2 days straight. Not only is this completely different from his previous game (which I don't think carries too much weight) but he just doesn't seem interested.
One last thing though. Both him and xIvan have only posted once and people are saying xIvan is probably going to get modkilled...would Blurry then also get modkilled? These three vote for Blurry, why? Zaragon votes him based on Blurry's meta. In the previous game Blurry had a good opening post much like in this game, the difference between this game and the previous game is that in the previous game Blurry continued to contribute and in the current game he didn't. This is just such an easy thing to pick on - the reason that he hasn't really contributed that much is because he has been inactive. onlywonderboy picks it as a safe bet because he won't be able to be online for the deadline. I don't understand why Balla24 is voting for Blurry here though, he didn't seem all that interested in Blurry before, so why pick him over Jayte/xIvanJ who are just as inactive as Blurry. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:40 Zaragon wrote:
Got caught up in an intriguing conversation with a friend, now the hour is late.
MLuneth is the only person who has posted considerable amounts that I would vote for. I don't know if he's bad town or scum either, it's strange to assert himself like he does as either town or scum and then not to be responding now. Feels like scum constructing a case and dropping off at suspicions.
I wanted to push Blurry to contribute, he hasn't. I'm comfortable switching off him for now since he doesn't even seem to be coming in to vote.
##Vote MLuneth Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:55 Balla24 wrote:
EBWOP: But I agree with Bajablood. Having him around Day2 seems like he will slip up again if he is indeed scum. Then again, he is the only real suspicious person besides the afkers.
##vote MLuneth Why is Zaragon comfortable with switching his vote? He says it's because Blurry doesn't seem to be coming to vote. Guess who else didn't come to vote? MLuneth. So why change your vote? Why not just keep it on Blurry as your case seems to be the same on both of them? Also: Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 12:31 Zaragon wrote:
I did read MLuneth as soft-claiming a role and wanted to draw attention away from it at first. That's partly why my instinct later went "huh, I've stopped paying attention to this guy since I'm just hoping he'll live through the night... and those things he's saying make absolutely no sense. But he's trying really hard to make a case with those things. Makes sense for that mindset to use the question to protect himself as scum." Suddenly why I wanted to keep him safe became why I really thought he was scum playing badly rather than town playing badly. No response felt like scum slipping under radar. He'd have had plenty of time to make any kind of defense, unfortunately he was never around again. In this post you claim you read his post as soft-claiming vigi. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU EVER VOTE FOR HIM IF YOU HAD EVEN THE SLIGHTEST DOUBT THAT HE COULD BE A VIGI? This makes 0 sense to me, no fucking clue what you were thinking here. Why didn't you just leave your vote on Blurry if that was the case? Also note that Balla24 switches his vote to MLuneth aswell. He says he's the only suspicious person besides the afkers, while I can agree that his posting was indeed odd, it doesn't explain his sudden switch. He agrees with BajaBlood: Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:53 BajaBlood wrote:
Yes, in his other game (as scum) he was very sheepy early on until he started getting accused, then got aggresively defensive (think the word they used in the thread was 'shitflinging', lol). Whereas in this game, he's making reads right off the bat and playing much more in-your-face.
I think his heavenz read was terrible, and a number of his other posts (including the question) are bizzare, but I'm not reading it as scum yet.
Plus if we keep him around and he is in fact scum I think we'll have an easier time classifying him then some other players What BajaBlood says is don't lynch MLuneth because if he is scum it'll be easy to tell. WHY DO YOU VOTE HIM IF YOU AGREE THAT LETTING HIM LIVE FOR ANOTHER DAY WILL MAKE IT EASY TO TELL IF HE IS SCUM OR NOT? I'm sorry but that just makes absolutely 0 sense to me. onlywonderboy: You say Blurry flew under the radar for you and that is why you voted him. Then what about the other inactives, you are not gonna tell me they didn't flew under the radar, right? So why DID you vote for Blurry? Were you in a hurry because you had to leave and left with a half-assed post? Or did you just decide to vote for him because your mafia teammates (assuming both Balla24 and Zaragon are scum) did so you could boost the votes in your favor? I don't got much proof and this is basically just theorycrafting but I think Zaragon/Balla24/onlywonderboy might be our scum combo. Let me know what you guys think.
I said from the start I might want to swap back to MLuneth. I explained my plan of pressuring Blurry and MLuneth, and I stand by that I felt both were scummy. As I said the plan collapsed because neither of them came in to say a thing or even vote. I never even considered MLuneth might not show up for it, and I only thought it was a remote possibility Blurry might not. What was I supposed to do in that situation? Imagine you had the same reads and the same plan.
I thought MLuneth was mafia.
I was sure I could town-read him early in a defense under pressure, if he was just bad town.
What was my motivation as scum to swap my vote? It doesn't make sense. I could've NKed MLuneth if I had been scum and role-read him. I play with incomplete information as town, and made a mistake (again, largely because these players didn't even show up to play the game).
Your post, again, is something oddly timed right as night phase was ending, but I'm not sure yet what else to read into it. I'd welcome input on both you and myself.
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I'm definitely not saying it's towny for people to swap the votes, by the way, it can be scummy if either Stormtemplar or Blurry is scum and someone wanted to save them. Scum wouldn't care much about swinging the vote otherwise or they would just divide themselves not to look suspect.
Except everyone didn't even vote. I'm trying to figure out how significant this is.
On Bereft dying, it was probably a good kill since he looked very towny, did stick on Jayte in the voting fiasco and might not be a doctor save.
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On September 28 2013 08:25 JonnyLaw wrote:The more I read playerboy345's filter the more I think he is mafioso. Let me start from a couple days ago. In his write up on the players he claims + Show Spoiler [stormtemplar] +I think he is town, he made himself very clear on the lurker subject and asked me to elaborate when I wasn't clear enough.
He also questioned the same thing I did - Zaragon not using arguments on his opinion of me. I haven't read anything of him yet that I could even consider a scumread, he just tries to force information out of others. At this point stormtemplar is yet to be confronted by anyone. Yet storm and playerboy casually agree with each other on a few points later. This means nothing if you think stormtemplar is town, which I do not believe. Fine, more evidence for you non-believers. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:41 playerboy345 wrote:Oh and might I add: On September 27 2013 05:37 heavenz wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a playerboy & stormtemplar mafia.
Right now I'm thinking about switching my vote to Bereft as his last post basically has 0 content and he votes on a "safe bet" just cause why not? It's easy to vote for a safe bet - you don't have to do any analysis, just sit back and watch people die. He drops this subject and even goes so far as to praise bereft for his good read on onlywonderboy a few short hours later. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 16:22 playerboy345 wrote:
Thank god I'm not the only one that thinks onlywonderboy is suspicious/stormtemplar doesn't look that scummy. I was getting worried :/
I'll look into BajaBlood's filter later today.
I feel like he's trying to lay the blame elsewhere when bereft comes up dead in the morning. In bereft's last reads he's pressuring balla slightly and pushing playerboy a little bit. A couple posts ago I said myself as well but I was wrong when I reread the lines. All of this combined with his very timely post before we lynched MLuneth make me very suspicious. Note that was posted two minutes before the deadline. He had three other posts in the thirty minutes prior so clearly he was around at the lynch deadline and only chose to express his opinion once it was too late and did not elaborate as to why he felt that way. Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 06:58 playerboy345 wrote:
I'm not too comfortable with the MLuneth lynch to be honest, I really don't get that much of a scum read from him :/ Oh yeah, that onlywonderboy vote was odd when clearly he was not going to be lynched. There was time to jump on the blurry bandwagon easily. This may have swayed people to stay on blurry instead of going to MLuneth. It just doesn't add up. Zaragon expressed his views on why lynching MLuneth more articulately than I managed. Where he felt like blurry was a good pressure target, I felt similarly with stormtemplar. Blurry was never active so I didn't see an incentive to push him. Storm had been fairly active so I still think I had a very good target for pressure and lynching if he did not respond well enough. When the time came, not enough of you agreed with me.
This is a good case, you substantiated the oddity from before with a lot more meat that I missed.
I also noticed in his filter that he pointedly asks people to elaborate on town reads, and pressures them for not doing so. How does that help town? It puts targets on people's backs. "I'm leaning/feeling town" is good enough to say you currently like someone's posting/opinions/motivations/emotions, and giving more is often actually not very good for town. Pressuring people about town reads, I don't see how that helps town. Someone having too strong town reads--playerboy on Stormtemplar based on little, but carefully pushed little--is much more of a scum tell. Sign of knowing this person is town, or protecting a scum team mate.
My read on you JonnyLaw is significantly less scummy now, and playerboy significantly more.
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Blurry, if you're town. Day 1, not much solid to go on. Imagine someone you knew to be a good town player drop the post you did and then not contribute at all, no note to say they were busy or away. Would you expect it from them as a player, as town?
Been looking at Bereft, could have been on to playerboy and/or Stormtemplar. Looking into Balla right now. onlywonderboy who Bereft didn't like then, I had the same issues with, but he provided decent content when pressured. Neutral for me.
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(Don't mean to attack you, mate, for having RL obligations. But while you're still in the game...)
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Neither BajaBlood or Balla are giving me distinct scum feelings from their filters, pretty neutral, and tangential to me compared to playerboy and Stormtemplar
Baja had a good contribution about MLuneth:
On September 27 2013 06:53 BajaBlood wrote:
Yes, in his other game (as scum) he was very sheepy early on until he started getting accused, then got aggresively defensive (think the word they used in the thread was 'shitflinging', lol). Whereas in this game, he's making reads right off the bat and playing much more in-your-face.
I think his heavenz read was terrible, and a number of his other posts (including the question) are bizzare, but I'm not reading it as scum yet.
Plus if we keep him around and he is in fact scum I think we'll have an easier time classifying him then some other players
If it had been just a little earlier than 7 minutes before the deadline, I think it would've saved MLuneth from lynch.
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On September 28 2013 14:52 Balla24 wrote:Alright, I wasn't posting to let the stormtemplar/jonnylaw conversation continue a little while. I wasn't digging stormtemplar for mafia, and i'm still not really sure. He responds to jonnylaw's pressure well IMO. I don't think he seemed angry and he brings up the point of him bussing playerboy early on (if both were mafia). I want to bring up the first posts of his where he brings up playerboy: + Show Spoiler +However, as to your point about me just joining Zaragon on playerboy, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, I'm not really feeling zaragon's read on him. I'm not getting solid town vibes out of him at all. He's contributed rather minimally. (7 of his posts are 1-2 lines with maybe a quote.) Show nested quote +Lol you got a good point on Jayte, didn't a scum in the previous newbie mafia game start with a similar line?
I have to disagree on your MLuneth "read" though, yes he might not be adding much to the game with that post but there really wasn't much to discuss when he posted it other then your opinion on lynching/not lynching lurkers.
Though the question is indeed a bit weird, I mean it wouldn't make any sense if he was NOT scum to ask such a question because that would be an easy blue kill night 1 for mafia, or am I missing something here?
Maybe he can clear it up when he gets online, I am quite interested in how he will defend the question. This is his one good post, but it's not really doing much more then throwing around short opinions on jonnylaw's reads. There is that one bit of really weird logic at the end (It's scum because any non-scum asking that question must be a town roleblocker, therefore they wouldn't post it? Kinda shaky and weird.) This is after he has been pressured by Heavenz already a little bit. He appears neutral on playerboy, he seems like he doesn't want to commit to him being town but doesn't want to push him too hard here. Only after he has multiple people on him (Heavenz, Jonnylaw) does he really turn the heat up on playerboy. IMO, this could conceivably be a bus, albeit a bad one. With all that being said, I don't think it is. Playerboy and stormtemplar's posting angles have been completely different, althought stormtemplar has been under pretty heavy pressure all game long so he's been focusing on defending himself. I don't think they are both mafia (either one or the other), but I definitely don't want to leave the possibility off the table that they are. One last thing on the stormtemplar/playerboy subject (and another reason I don't think they are scum together). Stormtemplar completely dismisses playerboy's recent post as scum without even a second thought (more on my thoughts on the post later) just because he goes against Zaragon. No elaboration here, but he continues to call him useless even though playerboy's post at least brings up something that was relevant at the time, the voting patterns. Now let me preface this by repeating the fact that I believe I made a mistake in voting on day 1, I should have voted for a no-lynch when everything came to pass, and I definitely should have noticed the blue claim. We've talked about it already and both Zaragon and I have given our reasoning. I find it odd that playerboy pretty much disregards what we said during the night and looks only at the day 1 events. But that could also just be good town play by not letting possible scum targets talk their way out of a slip. I think the post had good-intentions by looking at the voting pattern objectively and finding mob voters but the end of that day was hectic and I don't think you are taking that into account. I'm not sure what the angle would be as scum to post that though (i'm tired as fuck right now and i've been re-reading everything in night1 for ages), maybe to discredit Zaragon and I as townies since we got a blue role lynched. I'm gonna give it some more thought and definitely need to see more opinions on it when I have a fresh mind. Lastly, I've been looking through filters for any kind of alliances or non-alliances whether they seem scummy or not (meaning I wasn't looking at content for scumminess, just rather who has disagreed/agreed with each other). Jonnylaw and Heavenz Stormtemplar or Jonnylaw Stormtemplar or Playerboys Zaragon and Jonnylaw Zaragon or Bajablood Heavenz and onlywonderboy Maybe it can be helpful or maybe not. Just thought it would be interesting to see. Unfortunately it's getting late so I'm going to have to leave it at that. I was going to look at each of these pairs and see how they fit with the Bereft kill. But at first glance, it looks like Bereft might have just been a "strong-townie" kill that was not likely to be healed by doc since it was quite obvious that Zaragon was going to receive the heal. Looks like a safe kill. Anyways, I'm tired as fuck and this probably doesn't even amke any sense so goodnight T_T.
I'm starting to read Stormtemplar somewhat less scum as well.
First defense speech, it's what I would expect; there isn't much to do except bussing your scum buddy if they overdo a town read on you. Second speech, I filter dove Stormtemplar again. Heavenz interpreted something Stormtemplar said as if Stormtemplar would be ready to follow playerboy's lead, when Stormtemplar in reality was questioning playerboy being towny as his very first read. And questioning me regarding my read on playerboy, at the same time. Meaning Heavenz interpretation of Stormtemplar at the start was flawed. Referenced section here:
On September 26 2013 16:58 heavenz wrote:onlywounderboy: only oneliners, while I am not against one liners at all, just writing 1 liners lacks much content. He tries to show activness even though he has no content, perhaps he didn't know what to write in the beginning. Now after 24h you should write more than 1 liners. Zaragon: has my strongest town read so far. Blurry is really falling behind expectation, that's weird. You really should post more. lurkers:Jayte, xIvanJ You both have to participate way more. Stormtemplar is to me the most suspicious. He has 3 posts, 2 of which are about the lurker topic, and then the only relevant post Show nested quote +@Zaragon: I agree on bereft, he's been active, contributing and putting out strategy ideas and generally behaving as one would expect a townie to behave. I also feel the same as you about heavenz: we just don't have enough to get a solid read one way or the other.
Playerboy though, I'd like to hear more about this. What makes him seem town to you? I'm not really getting much one way or the other.
Also, with you all on Jaytee. Where'd he go? He was clearly here, so why the disappearance? Simply going inactive is a classic inexperienced mafia behavior, and at best he's an inactive townie, which is not good for us. Obviously he's done nothing scummy, but doing nothing is itself kinda scummy. He needs to show up and post so we can get some reads. While this isn't a scummy post in itself, but it's not useful either. He just joins in on Zaragon's reads, and calls out a lurker. Asks Playerboy on his ideas (probably so he can just join them in again, if they find appeal, and again gives zero reads from himself). Imho scummy.
A lot of the things that followed seemed to spring from Stormtemplar's frustration. Of course, possibly, even as scum, this could arise from being pinned as scum over a misunderstanding early on and some misinterpretations of his joke about playerboy's reads. I doubt it, though
I have no reason as yet to think Heavenz deliberately misunderstood in this context, but it makes a playerboy/Stormtemplar scum team a lot less likely (accounting for ripple effects and him having to be on the defense). Someone's first hesitant read playing as scum is unlikely to be that they don't find their scum buddy convincing. I could buy that he'd distance himself from a scum buddy addressing me if he's going to follow me, but that seems unlikely too--only mentioning he finds playerboy neutral, without attaching any other reads?
At the moment I like playerboy most for scum. Twice now the timing of his posts, end day and end night, has really felt scummy, as if he knows what to do to set himself up for the following phase. Certainty that indicates information advantage of scum, to me. I'm assuming scum would come up with a case to discredit me for the coming day since they were betting on Bereft, and it was a long and constructed one that could be for that purpose. He just missed the little detail that I was the first interested in Blurry as well as MLuneth and thus have nothing to gain from the whole swing vote for myself if I were scum, or any potential scum linked to me. Which ought to be a pretty massive detail if he were actually town making the case. Not so obvious from the scum perspective.
I need to get back to sleep, but it will be interesting to see opinions on this. Looking at other options tomorrow (including the real possibility of scum lurkers just sitting the game out, and different swing vote possibilities).
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On September 28 2013 16:32 heavenz wrote:
if he were town he wouldn't have such issues answering simle questions and didn't have to come it with excuses "was joke soso, low battery can't post, plx no kill me, i post moar i swears"
Zargan, that you indirectly imply that I mistook his word for what it was and not a silly joke on purpose makes you scummy.
onlywounderboy is certainly Mafia
btw I was roleblocked
In what order are the nightactions processed? First town or first mafia?
Heavenz, you did misunderstand him once when his phrasing was clear. The second time with the joke, that's fine, we can't prove it was even just a joke and it's an easy misunderstanding after the first. I would have--as I had already done--dismissed it as a language matter. I said I had no reason to believe you misunderstood on purpose. But I was explaining events around Stormtemplar and why that case has some significant flaws from early on that could have given it momentum it should not have at that point.
Not sure how I'm implying anything about you, besides not knowing if you're town and what your motivations are. Rather a prudent thing to remember.
The trouble is "if he were town he wouldn't have such issues answering simple questions and didn't have to come it with excuses" yes it looks scummy whenever someone does that if they need to address something. Unfortunately, town do it all the time. I'm not seeing a solid case yet. If there is one, I really want to find it because events day one have more meaning then.
Can you comment on the playerboy case?
Having a look at onlywonderboy in a moment. Why "certainly" mafia?
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On September 29 2013 02:52 heavenz wrote:
12 player = 9 town- 2 death - 2 afk - 1 not participating = 4
so it's 4 to 3 already, I honestly don't see much point in this game.
onlywounderboy is mafia, I'll vote him tomorow
That's just plain mafia or throwing the game as town. Focus please. Make a case on onlywonderboy, and refute the playerboy case then.
The way things are looking right now I feel our best chance is playerboy as scum, and making a plan to lynch Jayte/Blurry after. Hope that the inactives are scoured from the game by mods, and that at least one is scum.
But this could in essence become LYLO already, you are right, so we better hit scum. If you have a certain thing on onlywonderboy, great, make us see it too.
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The Bereft kill is weird in my opinion, why not go for heavenz/Zaragon who have been way more pro-town with their posts so far? I'd say those two are way bigger threats to mafia (unless they happen to be mafia).
The Bereft kill isn't weird if scum thought I could be the doctor target. And has heavenz been more pro town than Bereft was? Have I been? How? Just activity? Besides, plenty of foundation to cast suspicion on me after the vote, if you are mafia and have this thought process.
Your motivation to swap your vote as scum? You thought that you could get MLuneth lynched and that Blurry was likely to get modkilled, if that were the case you could have easily switched to MLuneth in order to maximize your kills. Even if Blurry wasn't going to get modkilled - he seems completely inactive so it would be beneficial for scum to keep him around compared to MLuneth whom you admitted to have read as a vigi.
You're giving me a lot of credit and convoluted reasoning in your scum image of me I must say. Maximizing kills by switching target? I was setting that up hours in advance when I stated my reasoning behind MLuneth and Blurry? Just betting they wouldn't show up? If I were making a plan as scum, it wouldn't be that stupid, and it wouldn't depend on people not even playing. Sorry, you're wrong.
The quote from me you wanted clarified: "Someone having too strong town reads--playerboy on Stormtemplar based on little, but carefully pushed little--is much more of a scum tell. Sign of knowing this person is town, or protecting a scum team mate."
By this I meant, you gave a strong town read on Stormtemplar and quoted specific details of his play as if they were clearly pro town, which I think was far from clear to anyone else at that point. I was willing to chalk it up as a newbie/language oddity, and to be fair, I'm considering that again since I've seen the Stormtemplar ties aren't substantial and came out of misunderstandings.
I don't see how posting at the end of a phase can be considered scummy. I voiced my opinion on MLuneth before my last post that phase and the post at night 1 took me ages to write. I had a shitton of tabs open, rereading stuff for ages to make sure and getting confused the whole fucking time due to the amount of text that I had to absorb, it ended up being done close to the deadline.
It reads scummy, because instead of waiting to see what scum is going to do, you make a post setting up for something you expect to happen. You could only know the NK if scum, and only then is your post relevant. All that effort setting up for the day phase, while tensely waiting for NKs? As town? You did the same thing a couple of minutes before the voting deadline, by which time it's too late to change anything, but you look good as scum since you knew MLuneth was town.
Why are you pushing for a Jayte/Blurry lynch? Jayte is inactive and Blurry asked to be replaced. How does lynching these two help town? It gives us no information and puts pressure on noone. Very scummy in my opinion.
....I didn't. I'm town so I state my current suggestion on the next day because I know I can die in the night. I was laying out for heavenz a way town still has a chance even if we stay lurker-city. Sure, I hope for better reads to lynch first, but by now I realized Jayte/Blurry are the lurkers who might be modkilled last since they have shown slight activity, thus best for first lynches if we end up in a situation to clean lurkers.
I don't know if you're mafia, playerboy, it does conflict with my personality read on you since the beginning. You'd be an extremely ballsy scum first time player.
You're still my top read, but since I'm not certain of you as scum anymore:
I'm 1-Shot Cop with a town check (I will reveal them if it gets close to deadline and lurkers don't budge, since it could essentially be LYLO). I'm expecting to die tonight anyway, and I want to get town on track if we can.
Maybe you can see my motivations for Day 1 better now, and why I used the word "cop-out" in a casual context (breadcrumb).
More reads people, more opinions.
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EBWOP: *will reveal them if necessary if it gets close to deadline
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On September 29 2013 04:24 onlywonderboy wrote:
EBWOP wrong thread oops
On September 29 2013 05:00 onlywonderboy wrote:
Alright, heavenz calling me out with no facts leads me to believe he is scum. Seems like he's soft role calling Town Cop when he isn't one. His posts just come off as "I have insider information, trust me." With the format of the game we may not even have a Town Cop. If he's going to post that he is certain someone is scum he needs to provide his reasoning for why upfront.
I want to look at onlywonderboy carefully after this, noting the time interval. Meaning he had the thread open and had seen the accusation, had gone to do something else, posted in the wrong thread, and gone back.
But at heavenz too with his last few posts, until he gives more.
And any and every link to playerboy, since all that says town about him is high contribution and personality-based read, for me, too many other things scum.
Going to try to go through everyone and possible links sometime today.
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Not good, I was hoping to wake up with 10+ posts in this thread, maybe a scum counter claim or smear campaign if Playerboy is scum. If he is, he doesn't have active support. I wish that told us more in this game...
Investigating Playerboy/heavenz/AFKer, Playerboy/onlywonderboy/AFKer and a few other thoughts.
I wish we had time to see more from onlywonderboy, I'm interested in him because he only responded in defense, had that little posting mistake and disappeared. I can still buy him as nervous town though and I really wish heavenz had made his case on him since it would help me read both.
I don't think heavenz is Serial Killer. The only thing pointing to it would be to say he was Roleblocked (which would explain his missing NK, but why would he point it out?) No reason for an SK to do anything but sheep the group/semi-lurk, and heavenz is definitely not doing that. Could be scum motivated to win by lurker game destruction, but I have a hard time buying that--especially since we only have a single claim of being Roleblocked--which is why I really want his reads. I was putting some pressure on, but I actually doubt he's scum. And to be honest, if 2+ of scum are motivated to win that way, they will win. No counter claim on being Roleblocked, which isn't of major significance, but means heavenz gets town credit and should not be lynched today.
Posting more as I have more time.
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On September 28 2013 06:59 BajaBlood wrote:Some thoughts, I'll try to add more as time goes on: + Show Spoiler [Zaragon] +The most consistent pro-town voice in the thread so far. Actually to the point where I would second-guess this read if he wasn't targeted tonight, because I'm not sure why anyone would disagree. This read would get even stronger if no one dies tonight, because then I'm assuming both scum and medic are thinking the same. Obviously, I disagree with his Mluneth vote, but since it was the first vote and had more analysis behind it than later votes, it doesn't bother me that much I'm still trying to process this bandwagon - it happened seemingly out of nowhere (little explanation and right before the deadline). It sounded like heavenz argument was better to lynch a somewhat suspicious afk'er than risk a mislynch on a suspicious active player? Is that an accurate summation of what you were thinking, Heavenz?
Balla24 couldn't seem to explain his reasoning and had to claim it was a mistake (the post where he agrees with me then votes Mluneth was particularly baffling). I'm willing to accept that for now, since it is his first game and I can't really be intolerant of active-but-misguided players when I'm hoping for tolerance on that front as well.
Ugh, my gut wants me to be suspicious of the bandwagon, but from the rest of the thread I'm getting a moderate town read on heavenz and slight town on Balla, so it might be best for me to let it go. Plus even though it was a bad lynch, it's not like the situation was providing us with many better options... Wait, you were expecting me to write more about lurkers after all that?
I almost forgot my mental note to look at this. 1 minute before deadline, just along with Playerboy and setting up for "if Zaragon survives the night". Then even an EBWOP to make light of it:
On September 28 2013 07:01 BajaBlood wrote:
EBWOP - hahaha me and playerboy writing the exact opposite thing about zaragon at the same time. I'll take a look in a couple hours when I'm back from the gym
And a couple of hours later, he didn't do that. Also, the post with the meta information on MLuneth, even if very good, was suspiciously timed (the 7 minutes until deadline I mentioned before). By that time the lynch was set. By itself, this doesn't mean anything, he could've not caught up to how fast people wanted to go MLuneth and not been worried until late. With another just-before-deadline post he looks suspicious in the same way playerboy does.
Baja/Playerboy/inactive is now my biggest scum circle read. I'll check so I haven't missed something that contradicts them planning together.
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EBWOP: Ugh I misread the post this time, now I see why it was just "mental note" and not scum read. Sorry. Filter diving again.
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It's a difficult game. 1 inactive scum gives us few links to work on. 2 inactive scum means not a single lead we have is going to be correct unless the 1 active majorly messes up.
A note for Balla by the way: no-lynch isn't an option in this setup
A note on Baja/playerboy timing and play: I'm hesitating based on their contradiction in their suspiciously timed posts. It would be good if a third scum were backing playerboy, but pretty useless if a third scum is inactive.
Baja could be considered on his own merit as scum with no playerboy attached, so I'm filter diving based on either an active scum threesome or checking if I like Baja as outlier scum, currently.
At this point my main suspicions lie with playerboy or onlywonderboy.
Still scumminess around Stormtemplar, I wish he would give more reads on more people, but a few of his posts have struck me as genuine and my personality read forming on him is starting to fit with how he has played, as town. Currently neutral/slightly scummy to me.
JonnyLaw is not reading quite as tense anymore and contributes well with a motivation that reads slightly on the town side of neutral (I really hope we don't end up with inactives ruling the game and someone like JonnyLaw pulling it through, but I doubt it right now)
Ouhc, Playerboy, if you're town, please don't address who the doc might or should save. Keep in mind the possibility we could only have a 1-Shot Doc or two or whatever, and discussing anything around this only helps scum
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I'm starting to lean BajaBlood/onlywonderboy/????? for now. Bereft reads pretty early. Suspicious timings in posts, pretty random voting pattern that could mean no scum was a target, or Stormtemplar could fit as third.
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EPT
